Audiophile Roundtable: The Quest for the BEST sounding records Part 3 + news and discussion!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ธ.ค. 2024
- Please join your host Steve Westman as he welcomes the Friday Roundtable gang. The gang will discuss, RANT and review the latest audiophile vinyl reissue releases and talk about their on going quest to find the best sounding records.
I absolutely love the new, thinner MoFi boxes - they still provide that deluxe experience without taking up a ridiculous amount of unnecessary space. Reeeeally hope they stick to them permanently.
Bordens mastering boil over is gold. Should be said more often. Definitely guilty of putting too much emphasis on mastering. Keep up the common sense reminders George.
Spot on!
@Nathan - mea culpa to you on my previous post regarding comparing the songs off a whole LP to their counterparts on the GH tracks, as I now recall/realized I did a similar comparison of the 4 tracks on Steely Dan’s Pretzel Logic UHQR to the RL GH. Ironically, it may have been your own curiosity about that which I heard/read what inspired me to do that comparison :)
Great episode guys Josh I agree with you the OG Lenny Kravitz smokes. Mazzy hope you do a review or comparison of the Mofi One step of Cannonball Something else. George that OG Nonsuch sounds amazing .
I do think the UHQR sounds great BUT;
1. It didn’t blow me away like I expected. Nathan is spot on IMO!!
They sacrificed something for hyper detail.
2. It wasn’t completely flat
3. One song on one side 😂….yeah NO
4. Crackle and pops (no it hasn’t been cleaned yet)
I am pretty done with 2X45 box sets. Unless it was something very dear to me. I have been burned this year by more warped records, defective records etc…
I may well get a CD player to have an alternative, and they can sound very very good (I get way more for my money). I hope you add CD’s to your videos, they are coming back strong 💪
I am definitely taking a break from what I feel is getting ripped off. I know it’s my own fault for drinking the Kool-Aid.. rant over lol
Thanks for the rant. I have done a few SACD videos go back and check them out if you have not.
I’m sure I’ve heard Fremer , praise up the greatest hits as well
Which version of Upstairs at Eric’s do you recommend? Couldn’t quite work it out.
I would trade in many of my concert shows for the Stones in 72. Maslov lucky. Where were the seats?
Weren’t reserved. Partly sat upstairs on the side then walked down to the open floor where there were no seats. 5000 person venue Winterland
Another great diverse round, guys. I saw the Evan‘s Sunday Village OJC cover on your starting page, Steve, and I hoped to hear some opinions about that reissue. Have I missed it in the video?
No. We never got to it. We will in a future show.
Looking forward to it. Many thanks!
The mentioned German channel is a kind of advertising channel for AS and others thus is not offering the experience, competence and diverse „neutrality“ you guys have. Rarely it has something credible and catchy for me but it has a huge following. For a while they were selling all AS releases for very reasonable prices in Europe but now you can buy them elsewhere for the same or even lower total cost. „Horses for courses“.
So is the Ludwig album of Steely Dan's Greatest Hits digital then ?
Well it was cut 40 years ago. So one would presume tape.
No it is not
@@mazzysmusic Mazzy I’m taking your advice on the red and blue albums. I can’t afford the new releases so I’ve found a few mint and near mint on Discogs of the 2014 all analog issues I’m also getting what is my favorite Beatles album Revolver also all analog from that same year. Thanks again man you’re the best ! ! ! What confuses me about digital and not is when people start talking about compression and other things I don’t understand about music mastering I need to educate myself on this.
@@stevewestman7774 not to be argumentative Steve but 40 years ago was ‘83 and most of us were listening to CD’s. I just told Mazzy when people who know music mastering and all the insanely different digital paths and compression etc etc I get confused and ask people who know. I need to learn more about this stuff.
@@stevewestman7774was the Canadian colored vinyl version from the same cut. I had it years ago and remembered it sounded great.
There is a gentleman in Germany that buys every single record. He has a youtube channel
And everything he buys is amazing. LOL. That guys a rich showoff.
I have heard. 😎
Oh wait, he no longer buys records starting with M and ending in i
And EVERY release from Salida Kansas is the greatest release...ever🤔
Amen, Borden!
Mazzy
Gabriel’s Up came out in 2002, so it’s been 21 years
The live graphics were incredible. A bluray of it out in the spring
I saw the tour in Berlin with my son who lives there and the final show in Houston - very moving
A great fleshed out group of musicians - strings, even trumpet
the album might be a grower for those just getting into it
Dark or light version?
George - I would be interested in hearing your career RL moments?
Robert Ludwig sure made an impact, but the GH only includes Josie and Peg (not a favorite)
There is no unobtanium Ludwig version of the full record like Michael Hobson’s 45 rpm test pressings not released at Classic. The Aja UHQR is Hardly lackluster or the train wreck that was the Pretzel Logic UHQR.
Thanks. I knew it was a long time. ✌🏼
Hey Steve, hope all is well. I am so happy for George reaching his pinnacle for subs and that it happened on your show. He so deserves it. It's the technical aspect that draws me towards you and George's channel.
I also appreciated George's rant about mastering engineers. yes it's fun to talk about but not enough emphasis is put on the actual tunes themselves when say reviewing a One Step or UHQR.
I truly understand people LOVE that side of the coin...hence why your show is so popular but I wish folks would talk about the music more or if you want to get technical then talk about the technical aspects of specific songs from the album as opposed to the totality of an album.
Just my two cents.
Just visited my local record store.....still no Who's Next Half-Speed...LOL. Unreal!!
But I did get some cool reissues.
Talk soon Brother!!
Big D
Jennifer Warnes The Well on Impex is amazing. Of course, it’s formerly Cisco Records.
Great chat as usual 👍 Mazzy bashing the Led Zeppelin box but then orders the ridiculous George Harrison treasure chest money grab a few years ago😂😂 Even all the Bob Dylan releases...every 3 months he comes out with a Box set of mixes and recordings of the demos of these mixes and recordings back in the day???... That is the beauty of collecting....all in the eye of the beholder 👍
When I look through the V section of the record bin I see Vampire Weekend, Vandergraaf Generator, Suzanne Vega, The Velvet Underground, The Ventures, The Verve Pipe and some goofy looking guys in spandex that appeal to teenage boys
Great panel! If I was on your panel today, I would have been super annoying as ALL I would have talked about is how phenomenal the Indie red/blue New Order Substance 1987 sounds! Please hunt one down, the release is a mess, and curious if they are going to press more...I have owned a UK OG and this destroys it. Discogs reviews are even fantastic. (Apparently not so much with the standard black vinyl (which is also currently in low supply).
I agree, I got lucky in Australia…red and blue was in a big store and not a record store …not on the shelves but out the back .
Sounds incredible
What a crazy hunt this is, huh?! Yes omg...next level sonics, so so so happy with it!@@anthonyburke223
The secret in the sauce is the Cuervo Gold and the fine Columbian.
Absolutely 😂
Following minimal research, a few market checks; it seems there are alternatives to Steely Dan! I never could have imagined.
Hahaha
Agree 💯 % with Nathan on his points about the RL Aja cuts being superior to the same tracks on the UHQR. The RL have same level of detail but also vibe-ier(although end of disc and 33 rpm). I feel Bernie approached the UHQR with more of a jazz mastering approach.
No one is gonna disagree with Nathan on AJA? Huh
We already said our peace. I fur one disagree. Didn’t feel to jump in today.
Hi Mazzy. I'm not here to roast you. I think you are one of the most important voices especially in this forum. We know Pete Townsend's history with abuse. We know that now he does not play Uncle Ernie live. I haven't read his autobiography, but I can infer that at the time he wrote that, that was where he was at on his journey of coming to terms with his abuse. We know that familial SA is real and common, and that it has long lasting effects. I wonder if a public forum that goes all over the world is the best venue to make a joke about it. Like most of us, you're clearly a considerate guy if not provoked, and I hope my comment didn't provoke you. Best wishes.
Stop it. Jesus.
I would disagree that we should be into records for the simple fact “its a record”. If Im going to spend $30.00 on the new JellyFish lp and it sounds inferior to the cd from the 90s that I can buy for 10-15 bucks then why buy the record? Many many more examples of this also.
Makes no sense unless you are buying records for inconvenience, 4 step cleaning, space hogging and musty smell.
Surely hobbyist collect lps in order to have better sound than a cd, streaming etc. Unless the entire thing is “Ooooo…a record…ahhh..vinyl”
Of course the opposite can be true and many times is:
LPs that are mastered well many times sound much better than their cd or streaming counterpart. Still that goes back to why do we buy records and not just buy the cd or stream. Sound.
I also realize that some folks just like records, cuz. And that is ok. Makes no sense to me and why I collect, but at the same time I get it.
And perhaps that is where the two parties divide.
Although I dont think they should.
Unless a person just is set against the idea of searching for great sounding versions of the albums they cherish. Which really isnt that difficult.
And as far as the old days of pulling a record out and not worrying about it, well, tapes were fresher and as we have found out (sometimes the hard way) those 60s-80s lps were the best sounding.
It would be awesome to have some recording engineers interviewed. All in favor of this.
The thing with recording engineers vs the mastering engineers is both are important imo. Certainly if the recording of the music is a hack job or some lo-fi affair, the mastering engineer can only do so much. So initially that is very true-recording, mixing and all that goes before mastering is paramount in importance.
However, the later is also the one thing that cannot be adjusted after the fact. Once its in the can its in the can. Yes, remixes can be done and are of course the new trend. But those rarely if ever improve and are mostly novelty. And even in that case the recording itself is done. It is not going to change. Therefore for the consumer the only variable is really mastering.
What can change and the one person who can change the tone of the art is the mastering engineer. Thus the reason why so many who search for the best sounding versions of albums emphasize mastering.
For example:
The ABB Live At The Fillmore is not going to be re-recorded, produced and engineered by someone other than the folks who recorded it. Tom Dowd isnt coming back to life to reform the team and the ABB certainly aren’t coming back to the Fillmore.
It is recorded as it is recorded. Its done.
But multiple mastering engineers have tweaked eq , massaged tapes etc through the years in order to attempt to get the best sound quality out of this live masterpiece. Thus the “hunt” based on mastering becomes the more talked about attribute concerning the talk in the search for the best sounding versions of albums we love.
This is the reason mastering engineers are talked about so much rather than recording engineers in this little world.
Mastering with a particular album is a searchable variable. Really the only one. I discount remixes because most suck, but even if one insists on adding that into the “mix” it is still mastering by far that is the greatest sound quality affecting element when searching for an album.
I get the element of dont forget the most important aspect of the sound of your record: the actual recording of the album and how well that was done. Totally agree.
But there is no great mystery as to why mastering is emphasized most with folks who listen to records and care about sound quality:
Its all we who collect can look to for sound quality changes (good, bad or inbetween) For some, this is not minutiae, it is why we search. And some of those differences are quite revelatory. Sound affects the musical experience.
Sound quality is directly connected to music. Sound quality can enhance the enjoyment of the album. It can make the music come alive. To me, that isnt really being picky. It is wanting to get emotionally, spiritually, humanly drawn into the experience more. And that can be made or broke at times by mastering.
It can even go further. The UK Tommy for instance takes one back in time. Its how others heard the album or perhaps those who were “there” recall the album. Again, an experiential enhancement based upon sentimentality and a way to sort of travel back in time. Mastering absolutely affects this. You wont get that with the Classic Records version. You get a different, more in your face, experience with the CR Tommy. Why? Mastering choices and equipment changes to master with.
Countless examples of where mastering is important in this way.
Let me repeat though that I agree recording engineers in our little audiophile world has been overlooked. It would be awesome to have some recording engineers interviewed. All in favor of this. Would be very cool to see some recording engineers interviewed around here.
FYI
Prince's Audio Engineer Susan Rogers - "Reflections from the Studio"; Mixing/Analogue/Vinyl (Ep. 63)
th-cam.com/video/GzqvOiIQZBQ/w-d-xo.html
Yep audio fools making celebrities out of mastering engineers these days.