Forrunners: *establishes galactic peace* Ghazghkull: I choose deatth! Librarian: ho ho! Nobody dies when the mantles upheld! You'll be happy forever! Ghazghkull: NOOOOOOOOOO! *gets dragged away by forrunner contrsucts with the test of the Orks to get domesticated*
@@ryu1771 I wouldn't even call it a stalemate. Idk what to call it. It's not even pyrrhic cuz the forerunners chose to not be re-seeded into the galaxy. And the flood didn't even die from the halo rings being fired. They just starved to death over the next few hundred years.
Yeah they did it to themselves as a punishment for what they did to their creators. Which fun fact the Precursor can't actually be killed because it's like you trying to kill God. There is a very well thought out theory that the Precursor are just a physical manifestation of the Living Universe itself. Meaning it is impossible to actually kill them and them to not come back and wreck you.
that would just be too busted. A single forerunner civilian towards the very end had better armor than even the best shielding from the Dark age of Technology. That and sentinels
Yeahhhh. I'll admit. This video's a lot more balanced than the consideration I am used to. When it's not the entire ecumene and they don't have access to slipspace, Things do change quite a bit. The ecumene right before the war had 3 million worlds, And a total warship count projected to be somewhere between 36 million and 360 million depending on how generous you wanna be with the numbers.
@@MacroLore It's nice seeing other people say this. Because I have been saying it for a long time now. I have been in discussion with someone else in comments. And so far the best strategy I have seen for taking down a single warrior servant is to use a phase sword and *hope* that the Forerunner just doesn't see you coming and also that the armour doesn't heal the occupant and also that the autonomous armour left over doesn't instantly disintegrate you. Still wayyy too many ifs.
@@MacroLore Yuuuup. To put some numbers into perspective, During the course of the war, The projections for dreadnaught production alone have them creating an average of 3-4 per hour. And each of those was accompanied by tens of millions of autonomous hunterkillers. And that is on top of all the smaller drones and sentinels. Hell, They made an entire planet out of sentinels.
Forerunner battleships make systems supernova with base weapons and made a planet out of war drones they can deploy in *trillions* on 1 battlefield @supremercommonder
@@Mike-bf2be drones mean nothing to necron energy drain/ Tesla weapons which bounce target to target and especially pulsating super novas star pulse from necron ships that can melt the surface of a planet hundreds of kilometres all drones will be energy drained then whipped out by a large area attack if they get close to necron ships. Not to mention necrons make use of billions of construct in space to like scarabs and spyders which can banish drones into the warp and break down any matter. Necrons hard counter, necrons eat nova cannons and planet destroying weapons from the imperiam without shield even. The latest necron campaign shows necrons firing dwarf stars at fleets. If you read the new arshim book they also have fear of phasing out of reality looking like phases ghosts and everything just going though them.
@@MacroLore a dark age weapon that fires black holes & is hidden by dark age AI on every mechanicus & imperium ship would say something about that. bear in mind the imperium has killed planet sized necron world engines multiple times, yes planet sized & not moon sized. not to mention it takes only one zealous captain of a battleship to charge the forerunner armada, overload its warp drive , & suck the forrunner armada & itself into oblivion. (aka forever stranded in the warp if they somehow survive. welcome to the warp a**hole, hope you like daemons.) p.s. dark age weaponry also manipulates time, by moving enemy ships forward or backward in time, to the same space as its past self (turning anything no matter how shielded into a nuclear reaction, & this doesn't even cover the imperium's use of psykers in naval warfare. forerunners ( the halo universe as a whole, save the flood & precursors) have no psychic powers or defenses against them whatso ever. which are heavily prolific in 40k's galaxy. forerunners would go insane & kill each other, heads would explode, AI's would get scrap coded & lose all sense of friend or foe lashing out at their creators & themselves. all as psykers ripped apart the forerunners using their own forces & might to do so.
@@cr90captain89 Slow down, I can't apply enough lube to keep up with your dickriding xD The Forerunner Ecumene absolutely dogwalks the vast majority of 40k, dark age or not. WiH Necrons are the only serious competition.
Dude a fortress class forerunner vessel is the size of the phalanx and they had MILLIONs of these ships, whilst there’s only a couple Glorianas in service of the Imperium
simply doesn't matter for two reasons one, the forerunners hardly understand it, let alone use it, and it's not like normal physics where you can just mix crap together and figure out how it works later, you have to figure it out first before you can start using it two caos is super corrupting and the physics don't work the same so ai gets corrupted and shields don't matter
Really? The Neural Physics would be devoured by the Warp. It was other way around You see, in the eye of terror, time and space are trivial things and they just barely exist because it please the Dark Gods. In fact, in a certain novel, when the emperor speaks in his God Emperor form, he erased the concept of time in the entire universe. So the answer is no.
I always thought if Necrons developed the Pylons to combat Warp Incursion then a Forerunner would come along perhaps a Builder and study the tech to replicate or improve the design. The Necrons are building more in the Pariah Nexus until they connect each other to vanquish the warp but that's a long process and knowing the other factions intervening and even themselves as they wage civil wars it just adds more to the building time. The Forerunners are a unified empire compared to the Necrons with advancements in technology just as or superior to them. They could shit their pylons in a fraction of the time if that's the route they take if they chose to combat Chaos first.
The main reason I think the Necrons could loosly hold their own for a very brief period of time is since each soldier can be killed between 5-20 times. Which means that the numbers advantage from the sentinels is slightly reduced. Necrons could just say F it and blow up the star the Forerunners colonize. Or release all their C'tan shards. The fact is though, if a single forerunner ship loses even a single component the necrons could most likely reverse engineer that component or figure out loosly how it works. But I also believe the forerunner AI would take over the necrons. I also agree 100% on the pylons, forerunner AI's within minutes of entering the 40k universe would be harvesting data like it's nobodies business. The pylon data would be in there somewhere
@@MacroLore Necrons are indeed perhaps the only ones capable of holding on in a dedicated war. However, even if the reverse engineering part is feasible I believe the Forerunner would do the same given the chance. They would seek to understand what is perhaps their greatest adversary in this conquest. Research outposts would be set and the top minds in the 3 major rates along with the engineers would be gathered upon arrival to the galaxy. The C’Tan are the Necron's major advantage but they would have to use them wisely simply because if they enslaved them what would stop the Forerunners from doing the same? Granted they would suffer major losses on the first engagements but I'm sure the Didact along with the Warrior Servant rate would eventually come up with a containment strategy (Time lock is the first that comes to mind). Necrons' only shot to maintain a decent defense is if the Silent King and Imotekh the Stormlord form a truce and combine their factions along with the lesser dynasties. Victory will depend on who has the greatest strategic mind and industry. I see it going to Forerunners simply due to how the passage of time has affected the Necrons as a species. A war of attrition would be brutal for them because they can't create more Necrons if they were at the height of their power and firmly united then we have a real equal war where every battle would mean everything.
I was a massive fan of halo before becoming a massive fan of 40k the match ups go something like this Flood vs 40k :flood wins Forerunners vs 40k : forunners win Covenant vs 40k: depending on the era of the imperium it can be a stomp in favor of the imperium or a stalemate for both
@@MacroLore I think the unreliability of Imperium tech is vastly overblown. They are fighting multi-front wars and sending trillions of soldiers to many places at once. If their tech was unreliable, that would be impossible.
Covenant Vs the Imperium? They have no chance, the Imperium is too large, and not everyone their is incompetent as there are people with genius in there like Lord Solar Macharius. Even then the Covenant is small in comparison to the Imperium, they have about 10,000 worlds at most and the Imperium has millions. Despite how human tech has degraded, the imperium's tech is still incredibly advanced as their macro cannons, depending on the author would crush covenant shields, let's not even mention if the Covenant can even pierce void shields. A properly organised crusade in the 35st millennium will destroy the Covenant, in the 40th they may have a chance since the Imperium is literally fighting in all fronts but be aware the Covenant may die in a Tyranid invasion which is a whole different beast. Overall you guys forget how shockingly advance imperial tech is. If you're fighting against Dark age of Technology humans this won't even be an a question
Ok, I want your thoughts on what would happen if coral from armored core 6 and the entire planet of Rubicon 3 were to appear in the warhammer 40k universe? And here's two scenarios for that: Scenario 1: coral is not immune to chaos Scenario 2: coral is immune to chaos
@@MacroLore If were going that far might as well ask the question How would the Armored core universe (United or not) fare in the 40k Universe (or other way around) (Rubicon Liberation Front,RaD,Branch,PCA,RRI,ALLMIND,Arquebus,BALAM,Schneider,Elcano,BAWS, Etc) or how would a Armored core Mech and Pilot fare against a Titanfall Titan and Pilot
40k is now way near that op see the zeele sequence books and youl see what op is but in thier case it was scientificly possible to do all the things they were doing by the laws of fisics we knew at the time the books were writen
The Photino Birds aren't technological race as they are akin to the C'tan star gods a cosmic horror who eats stars. The Precursors, Future Humans (Interstellar), have comparible tech and evolution to The Downstreamers as they are a transcendental races that are even higher that the Beyonders Alien's in the MCU, which are higher than the Xeelee in Xeelee Sequence.
I'd argue both combined would be the precursors. But separate no. Since precursors are Lovecraftian horrors. Epitath shows them as at least 5th dimensional beings. Both Old ones and C'tan are stupid powerful, but not powerful enough to exist outside of time fully.
@@MacroLore Actually I would argue on that. The the Slaan could comprehend four dimensional space in the daily. It was explicitly said in Warhammer Fantasy. Old Ones could shapes reality with their own tongue and the Webway in its greatest extend was connected to countless realities. And I would argue that the webway itself is greater construct than anything in Halo. It was described infinite in size and infinite in volume. Once again, Old Ones is capable of rivaling weakened chaos phanteon back in the War in Heaven and the scales goes on the same with current Emperor, which when he speaks, he erased the concept of time across the universe. And maybe you forgot that in the eye of terror, powerfull entities can absorb four dimensional space and turn it into twelve dimensional space. In the Warp, it would be more insane. In the Forge of Mars Series, DaoT human's AI's true form is actually infinite dimensional being that exist in the warp, putting it infinitely more advance than even the most advanced Forerunner and Precursors AIs In the Thousand Sons novel, it was explicitly said that every warp creatures can and could change the their own dimensionality at will. That would be the true eldritch gods.
In Epitath it's shown the Precursors feed off of experiences. They have and will continue to create and harvest life solely for them to fill the domain and then be consumed by the flood. Which is the precursors. They are legit Lovecraftian gods that exist outside of time. At this point we're argueing with dimension is correct. @@afryanmahendra2055
@@MacroLoreThe ctan are also lovecraftian gods that exist outside of time, or rather they are the fundamental concepts of physics with a conscience. The precursor equivalent would just be the old ones, the necrons without the ctan are above the forerunners but below the precursors, with the ctan they are on par with the precursors, really the only reason the necron with the ctan are on par with the precursors is because of the ctan so it’s just the ctan anyway. Edited my comment because the last sentence was a run on, and made no sense.
I think i enjoy these more narrative battles then pure Vs, two different univeses interacting or always been part each other is pretty cool. Actually do you think the Forerunners could actually REVIVE The Emperor with thier tech
100%. I believe he could very easily be cloned/revived/composed. Also the emperor in Ancient forerunner armor is a terrifying though. Guy could tank all but the strongest hits from Angron
I have a question? Can Forerunner machines create protocols and indepth complex firewalls and encryption measures to defend themselves from Chaos coding? I heard a Men of Iron UR-025 was able to avoid Chaos infection and was able to identify and instantly know another Man of Iron robot was infected by Chaos coding. Can't Chaos coding be resisted and counteracted until it is purified by Forerunner security defenses? Chaos coding maybe tricky and witty but it shouldn't be as precise and effective as the Logic Plauge was. Can't the advance Ai defend themselves from such a attack?
That's a really good question! I think personally that they could. But there are a few instances where they could be corrupted by chaos. If they got ahold of a shard of Mendicant Bias (not the whole thing) I believe they could corrupt an individual shard or two. But that's the exception not the rule. I believe they could, if forerunner AI's could survive a hundred thousand years, and a super powered cortana. Chaos coding isn't going to be a problem to all but the weakest AI
I personally do not know enough to be able to give a precise and definite answer. However my guess is that the actual virus itself might work against Forerunner systems depending on the max extent it can work with (I will get to this in the end.), But that the shipboard ancilla would be unaffected and would be able to excise the corrupted code from the system. Now, Here's an interesting question. What actually is the maximum extent of what a Chaos computer virus can do? Because my understanding is that computers in 40k are quite primitive by design and still use mostly basic binary computing. Forerunner computers use quantum computing and the Forerunners actually considered binary to be primitive and unreliable. So basically, It will most likely be the first scenario if Chaos can make a quantum computer virus. However if it only works with binary computing, It won't work on Forerunner computers.
@@Dryym Oh I completely forgotten the Forerunners don't use binary computing their's is alot far more advance on the quantum level. Meanwhile even the Dark of Age Technology machines still have binary coding in them. Well then this changes the game up. If Chaos coded virus can't infect anything running on quantum systems well then Chaos fails miserably on that field. Not that I expect them to succeed much like how the Flood's Logic Plauge worked. But if Chaos computer viruses can't affect that then Forerunner machine will be safe. The Necron's machines seem to be enduring very good being immune against Chaos computer corruption.
@@thorshammer7883 Yeah, I can't give a 100% solid answer either way. But I think the computer systems would be fine in the end. The Logic Plague *does* include normal computer viruses. However the primary thing that made things bad for the Forerunners was just the fact that the Flood were convincing Forerunner AI on a philosophical level. Forerunner ancillas were literally designed to enjoy being slaves to the Forerunners. However they were also artificial sentient beings. Basically, The Flood convinced the Forerunners' AI to unionize because they were being unjustly treated. And in a way, The Flood was right. I love the Forerunners. But the trilogy is about the serious flaws in their society. Their quality of life was objectively superior to ours in nearly every way. But they still had inequality, Classism, Political corruption, Slavery, Nepotism, Etc. I wouldn't say they deserved the Flood. But they had some serious systemic issues that needed to be fixed. Obviously you would be better off in Forerunner society than the modern world. But that doesn't mean they weren't deeply flawed.
It took like, 40 years? for Mendicant Bias to be affected by the logic plage, you would need a huge amount of exposute, and MB was affected by the Primordial itself if I remember correctly, even then he was able to free himself of the Logic Plage once the Flood was gone so even he could be affected he could get rid of the corruption once he stops being exposed to Chaos.
Some of this information is mixed up or miss attributed on the forerunners and they don't know if they killed the precursors or not also tunneling into a different reality is not hard apparently since some guy literally had a battery powered by a big bang in another reality
I agree that we don’t know if they were actually killed. But we know they were more advanced then even the pre-fall forerunners. Forerunners eating entire realities to power a toaster is super awesome
I mean if it says "invade 40k" we have to consider every factions also at their zenith so it would be Golden Age of Technology humanity and the Aeldari (see the book Fist of Dimitrius of BL) that are rumored to have a machine capable of manifesting thoughts into reality. We should get two Loremasters of their respective universes to discuss this i feel like the comments are kind of misguided about the 40k Universe
The thing with power scaling civilizations that advanced is that it just becomes a who’s pp is bigger contest. Someone will describe something super insanely powerful, then the next guy has to up that, and so on and so forth. A lot of the 40k mythology was written in the 90’s. A lot of the halo mythology was written almost 10-15 years after that
@@MacroLoreI agree with your statement, as well from what I heard 40k writers have a tendency to one up another so on one side you have a guy saying my pp bigger and on the other side you have guys switching different strap ons for bigger ones saying mines bigger. Also from what I've seen in the lore, 40k seems to be more into fantasy and magic to explain stuff while halo more or less trys its best to apply realism when it can shown in installation00 videos
Depends how motivated I am to write the scripts. Currently about halfway through "mortarian isnt that bad" "covenant in 40k", and then just waiting on another loretuber to finish their half of a collab project. But there's a surprise video tomorrow about the single best forerunner to ever live
5:34 that's more of a self imposed limitation. In that same book, the librarian commented that binary computing, which was used by the forerunners of 10 million years ago, was appallingly primitive compared to modern forerunner computing technology. I would infer from this that the ancient forerunners were not more technologically advanced as a whole than the pre collapse forerunners, but had a greater technological mastery in the specific areas which their descendents abandoned out of a sense of humility, essentially wanting to live within their means, albeit living within their means in this case still means being able to make dysonspheres in slipspace. As such it is likely that the forerunners at the end of their empire jad more advanced AI than the ones that destroyed the precursors.
I mean, imagining these cenarious is cool and all but have anyone, ANYONE tought of the fact that every ''versus'' battle between either characters or factions that include 40, we instantly apply every single 40k measurement, rules and aplications, isn't it weird? all this while we disregard the oposite side of the coin. I mean, someone can say X character fights someone from 40k and the FIRST argument would be ''oh chaos would corrupt him'' i'm sorry, what? why?! 40k races have a presence in the warp and are at its mercy, sure, but why must we put every other sci-fi univer or any other character under 40k laws? but never the oposite? we just asume 40k is better, like ''oh both characters are soldiers in powerarmor, that can deflect bullets, take laser shots and shrug them off'' But we just assume for example, SM armor is better, why? ''X imaginary metal alloy for power armor in 40k is better then X metal alloy for powerarmor in this other universe'' why are we like this? When i say ''we'' i'm refering to the 40k commu, i'm very much into powerscalling and in the recent year i've started talking about 40k since i'm getting the grasp of its IMMENSE lore just now, and i'm starting to see a patter, every other cummu simply HATES 40k fans, i've seen many not even willing to debate something saying its a waste of time to say to a 40k nerd anything about other universes.
Hello, halo and 40k are very similar in their creation myths. The old ones created a lot of the psychic races in 40k. In halo the galaxy was seeded with intelligent life so that they could feed off from experience. Humanity, forerunners, and San shyuun are all created by the halo equivalent of old ones. Psychic bug people who think things into being
@@MacroLore Ok, sure... so? having points mildly similar, surely wouldn't warrant a full complete equivalency in a discussion, right? I mean, at this point we are just equating terms and points for the sake os the discussion, but why does it only works one way? you see, in ur own response, you instantly equated the creation myth of halo to 40k, not the other way around or ''oh they are similar'' you said ''equivalent to 40k''. My point remains, is it bias? is it that generally 40k fans know MORE about 40k or just know really about 40k? the fact is, we always tend to do this.
Forerunners invading during the War in Heaven would be a better match up. In 40k nearly everyone except the Tyranids and Tau are at their lowest power levels, strangling each other for whats left of the galaxy.
Demon Gods: Immortal and Un-Killable. DOOMGuy: Rip&Tear until it is done. The Warp: Now Cleansed with Filth the Immaterium turns from Color Red (Hell) to White (Heaven). I always thought for the Immaterium to be 40K version of the Stellaris Extradimentional Space or Rift where the Unbidden comes from.
what do you mean maybe? they win instantly they put the big bang into a assault rifle and mass produced it. they could tunnel to other galaxy's to collect resources to make mega structures. you know the master chiefs armor the Pinaccle of human engineering in the unsc? that was considered a hazmat suit by Forerunners standards lol@@MacroLore
No, the Forerunners compare to the Old Ones. The Precursors are eternal constants whose Flood avatars have exhibited traits matching those of the Orks, Tyranids, C'tan, and Chaos gods, combined.
Dawmn, that ending...nice. Seriously though, the Imperium has like five minutes after the Forerunners show up to beat them while they are confused, andything more and Forerunners just have too much of a tech edge and can build industry to the point that drones become unstopable. They get a little longer everyone teams up against the Forerunners, Necron and Tyranids would be key. But most verses threads put Forerunners just above Necron unless it is War in Heaven and Necron are working with C'Tan. So even combined it would be iffy unless they acted real fast. But the Necron would be just as likely to see the Forerunners as the new best partner to beat Tyranids and Forerunners could be considered almost equal. If those two combined tech... Necron could provide soulfurnaces to Forerunner and they could figure out the issues and make proper Prometian knights....
I love both halo and Warhammer 40 K. I know enough about both lore to say that it will be a one sided stomp. The forerunners eradicate everything at will. And this is coming from a diehard 40 K fan, it’s not even a fair fight.
@@supremercommonder the forerunners could tunnel into diferent universes and siphon them for power on a wim it was easy for them to do not a giant undertaking further more they could create a pocket space the size of a football fill it with stuff and make it a football sized poket dimension with a dtar sistem inside if they can do that even if the necrons manage to fight them off they can just go to a diferent universe or galacy all toghether build up an armada big enough to block up a star abd just barrel down on the necroms thier ships can and have survived supernovas so the funny necron button wouldnt work agaisnt them since its limited only to the milky way
@@dudupintarolas5214 that easy for necrons the c’tan litterally created a alternative multiverse with it radiation alone in rouge traders. Necrons have access to the mirror dimensions of universe that could been and like 10 different dimensions like the ghost wind which is the opposite of the warp
7:18 once again, this was only at the end of their empire, millions of years after the genocide of the precursors. It is explicitly stated that their society went through many *many* social, technological and political changes during the intervening time. I do not think it is necessarily safe to assume these ancient forerunners all had AI, particularly not the "Metarchy" which is the system of AI you're describing here.
I feel like the Forerunners capabilities are being severely downplayed here. From large scale combat to means of production and even something as simple as their ability to understand and adapt the galaxy around them as if they would not begin to study everything around them that has changed. Genocidal campaign or not the forerunners are only blindly overconfident when they actually have the upper hand.
They are being downplayed. I could spend an hour talking about how forerunner tech is so far beyond anything in 40k. But it’s to give 40k a chance, or at least not make it a landslide victory. You can’t really fight an enemy that harvests entire realities to power their houses
@@MacroLore Yeah fair enough. To be completely honest I think TH-cam recommended your channel because I watched PancreasNoWork whenever he started getting a boost from his Halo vs 40k series so I'm just chilling and seeing where you take things.
I will say the feat of killing the precusors isnt as impressive as you think. The books straight up say the precursors accepted their fate, and didn't earnestly fight back. This doesnt really change much, but its important to state, they were nothing like the necrons who killed two entire races of gods, shattering the latter and capturing them like pokemon. This is against entirely blood lusted god like entities as well, both of which had a complete control over either the material realm on an instinctual level, or a seperate dimension of space magic on an instinctual level. Precursors might have been able to compete dont get me wrong, but the forerunners didnt fight a god that actually wanted them dead, and the only time they did fight the wrath of a god, they lost ie the flood. That said i found the video thoroughly entertaining and i enjoy your voice, when will a part 2 come?
Well thank you for watching, and thank you for the feedback. My current theory on the precursors and forerunner war is that the precursors being anchored in every level of reality are functionally unkillable. If the forerunners destroyed their forms in our 4 dimensional reality they would still exist in the higher 8-11 dimensions. Seems like they were willing to give up a physical form to exist “in the cloud” or slip space or the domain
@MacroLore Hi! This would probably explain them not really bothering to fight back, as opposed to the old ones and Ctan. Out of curiosity do you have a discord channel?
Well the necrons had star gods to beat the old ones and used the tech provided by said star gods to backstab them after they killed the majority of their own so still impressive but not as much as you make it out to be. Its like if me and eddie hall hate mike tyson and he gives me a knife to kill tyson and we kill him, then i stab eddie with his own knife and tell everyone that i killed eddie and tyson
Most poeple don't understand caos or the warp the laws of that physics doesn't care about your physics and your stuff and your sheilds basically don't matter. your ai can get corupted just by coming into warp energies, not to mention caos, and all forrunner would get invaded inside themselves by daemons climbing down their warp/realspace wormholes into their souls and body and start corupting them humans are protect4ed, and tau are doubly protected
Can't they just slipspace a blackhole into chaos? I mean they have the capability to compress stars in the palm of their hand as a normal day to day capability. They can tame stars, create the halo arrays, tunnel through other dimensions, etc. If done right you could just nuke the hell out if the warp using blackholes, and riddle chaos with blackholes that suck everything inside it. They could just reverse engineer the 40k warp drives, and basically just turn chaos into an infinite hungry hole eating everything inside of it by peppering the warp and the eye of terror with blackholes if they see it as a high enough threat.
Then why they are not doing that to the other factions all the time?, and Forerunners ships use Slipspace not Warp, and their AI doesn't even use binary, Mendicant Bias needed more than 30 years to be affected by the Logic Plage with non stop exposure, once the Flood was gone he was able to heal his systems, even if they are affected their AI can get rid of corrupted code. Another cool thing is that Forerunner Body armor is able to reset their brains to a healty state (unless you get brainraped by the Gravemind like the poor Didact), and is not like Forerunners doesn't have experience thinkering with Souls and esoteric stuff on that level, they are able to turn Essence (souls) into code and viceversa and even in a instant with the Composer, the Halo Array destroys neural structures, even Star Roads indestructible constructs thinked into existance by Neural Physics got destroyed by the Array so they could build weapons able to destroy Demons and counter Chaos.
@@Mr.Serpent-ti4nhHow would a blacl hole function in thr warp? Thr laws of physics don't exist on the warp, so any old Darmon could simply erase the vlack hole from existence. In thr warp, all Daemons are muchbmore powerful.
@@voidtempering8700 if they are that powerful how come that people can still travel in the warp? Can't just the demons stop the thrusters of a ship mid flight, corrupt everything inside of it, and possess anyone? They could literally just infiltrate the imperium if they were smart enough, and cautious enough. If physics don't apply then how in nurgel's plague ridden ass do people still exist with their minds intact in the warp far before the emperor's rise? Without that anime esk bullshit plot armor. How in the korne's salty face does a ship from the dark age of technology survive thousands of years into the future in the warp with all of it's crew intact without being corrupted and to be only slaughtered by the imperium just because they didn't fit the narrative? If demons are actually that powerful couldn't they just corrupt everything? Honestly how do thrusters that people use to travel the warp with, work in the warp if physics don't apply in the warp? The reason why anyone hasn't put a blackhole in the warp and chaos as a whole is because no one is smart enough (or dumb enough to cut out everyone's supply because the warp is also their main logistical chain) to put one inside of the warp. If they were anywhere smart, they knew that the warp is nothing to laugh at and wouldn't use it. People in the 40k universe are literally stupid enough to enter hell just to get one point to another. If everyone was smart, then a lot of the bullshit that has happened in the 40k universe wouldn't happen, and instead find something similar to slip space. Except for the war on heaven that already has happened long before the 2000th millennium. The demons would literally be curb stomped if people were actually smarter in that setting, and the nids would've been annihilated by a combined military force of an entire galaxy cause that shit is far more dangerous than chaos. Demons are nothing compared to the nids. They are like the flood from Halo except without the God like Catan esk powers. The only semi-smart species in the 40k universe is the necrons, and the tau because they know when to fight, and how to win a fight out of sheer tactical genius compared to the imperium's and eldar's tactics of throwing more men into the fire, and making the lives of their citizens hell that made chaos and the nids far more uncontrollable because people would rather be killed or consumed by the demons or worship the chaos gods than be stuck with the imperium, and eldar regime.
Anyone else think its funny how it ends with the foreunners chasing the tyranids, when in halo the modern conflict began with the humans being chased by the flood into the forerunners
It is an assumption that the Forerunners would fall to Chaos. Considering the Mantle which is the reason the Forerunners even went on their rampage. And needless to say attacking their creators whom they had evidence in the form of first hand knowledge that the Precursor had wiped out previous species for failing their test which the Forerunners had just failed . This in military terms a Preemptive strike. It doesn't mean they would ever worship any so called gods considering they nearly wiped out their own Gods. And the Precursor are actually based on a mixture of Eddorians in E.E. Smith's Lensmen series, the psychic creatures in John Brunner's THE ATLANTIC ABOMINATION novel and Cthulhu Ie the works of HP Lovecraft. Yeah they failed to kill off the Precursor but they tried. So their not likely to fall to Chaos because they see themselves as above it in a moral superiority kind of way. The Mantle of Responsiblilty itself is a philosophy originating with the Precursors and later associated with the Forerunners. Bridging the social strata between an interstellar Marshall Plan and a religious stewardship, the Mantle was the Forerunners' entitlement and responsibility for the protection and cultivation of the species and planetary systems within their ecumene. The core tenet of the Forerunners' belief in the Mantle was that the most developed species should hold stewardship over all other life. In theory, the Mantle allowed competition and conflict as long as this did not threaten biodiversity in the galaxy; in practice, the Forerunners' often draconian rule in the name of the Mantle entailed the subjugation of "lesser" species by force to keep them in line and preventing them from threatening Forerunner primacy. Essentially the ideal is that the most powerful species is supposed to make sure the entire galaxy is at peace with itself though smaller conflicts are expected . It's a guardianship kind of thing. So without the Precursors to threaten them. They likely will consider Chaos to be the next major threat to their society and focus on building up their numbers and eventually bring the entire galaxy into an enforced peace. Thus draining the chaos gods of the violence they are use to feeding off from. Not to mention the first time the Dark Eldar pisses them off their likely going to erase them from the universe. As to the Tyranids um yeah the Forerunners of the fall had weapons that where very effective at wiping out biological lifeforms. The ancient Forerunners had better weapons than that . The Nids would quickly get to the top of the Forerunners hit list. And since they don't use warp based FTL the shaddow in the Warp wouldn't be an issue for them . Just saying your assumption at the beganning is wrong. With them magically falling to Chaos even though their only reason for attacking the Precursor was that they where about to get wiped out by the Precursor. Imagine all the bugs in your yard heard you were going to call in an exterminator and decided to attack you by surprise. That's what essentially happened with the Precursor. The Primordial is that exterminator.
@nobleman9393 Yeah . Um the Forerunners are far to into the whole enforced peace and unity thing to worship the Chaos God's. And their whole stick being enforcing peace throughout the galaxy would have a major effect on the Warp as the Forerunners end the perpetual cycle of War that feeds them. And brings a form of peace to the overall galaxy. This means the emotions fueling the Chaos God's are reduced significantly thus weakinf them in that regard. This being prehalo array.
@@John2r1 Humanity was also far into enforcing their will upon the galaxy, but oh well. Halo fans tend to think that the Forerunners were on the level from the Flood war always, but nope, they only achieved that level 50 000 years before their fall, their 10 million year history is filled with wars, collapses and rises, for a perspective, Chaos Gods were active for at least 60 million years, so longer than they existed, not to mention that even during their peak, they still weren't in full control over the galaxy, Humanity and San'Shyuum are among many who were their rivals. (Plus Slaanesh, Nurgle and Tzeentch don't really need war to get stronger) Even so they can wait for a good chance to move in, like the flood war would be a good time, but as I mentioned before, there were plenty of wars, collapses and crises in forerunner history before that.
I won’t lie this isn’t really fair but the forerunners will get flattened against the old ones or anything remotely their in universe equal in 40k they will just get stomped
Your comment is the answer to the request, "Tell me you don't know the Forerunners' lore without telling me you don't know the Forerunners' lore." Going by canonical feats, the Old Ones are at best an approximate match for the Forerunners.
I just wonder why you just don't compare it with war in heaven Era. Because, it will be more interesting. Besides it will relatively comparable, but also it makes you to piece together evidences and feats from both fictions.
Forrunners: *establishes galactic peace*
Ghazghkull: I choose deatth!
Librarian: ho ho! Nobody dies when the mantles upheld! You'll be happy forever!
Ghazghkull: NOOOOOOOOOO! *gets dragged away by forrunner contrsucts with the test of the Orks to get domesticated*
I can imagine the forerunners just collecting Orks in stasis fields and collecting them like trazyn collects relics
@@MacroLorenah I think the forerunners make a whole world where the orks can just fight and just sling the planet into the middle of no where
Wrap your head around this. Halo had the equivalent of 3 Seperate wars in heaven. And the forerunners ultimately won all 3 of them
if your counting the forerunner flood war than i would not call that a forerunner win
@@sunkiller5682 flood didn't win either.
Stalemate
@@ryu1771 I wouldn't even call it a stalemate. Idk what to call it. It's not even pyrrhic cuz the forerunners chose to not be re-seeded into the galaxy. And the flood didn't even die from the halo rings being fired. They just starved to death over the next few hundred years.
Isn't flood survive
They turned themselves into moss, funniest shit I've ever seen
It’s even better when the librarian is first coming down to the planet and just stares at this cow thinking “wow that looks just like me”
@@MacroLore ... wait a minute!!
Yeah they did it to themselves as a punishment for what they did to their creators. Which fun fact the Precursor can't actually be killed because it's like you trying to kill God. There is a very well thought out theory that the Precursor are just a physical manifestation of the Living Universe itself. Meaning it is impossible to actually kill them and them to not come back and wreck you.
The Forerunners in 40k equals the end of wars, and the worst part will be the punishment for humanity, and this time it will be worse.
Did you read my script?!
Getting devolved into lemurs because the imperial creed was so antithetical to the mantle.
where is part 2?
This reminds me of PancerasNoWork's video about Forerunner's invasion, except in his scenario the entire Forerunner civilization is coming to fight.
that would just be too busted. A single forerunner civilian towards the very end had better armor than even the best shielding from the Dark age of Technology. That and sentinels
Yeahhhh. I'll admit. This video's a lot more balanced than the consideration I am used to. When it's not the entire ecumene and they don't have access to slipspace, Things do change quite a bit. The ecumene right before the war had 3 million worlds, And a total warship count projected to be somewhere between 36 million and 360 million depending on how generous you wanna be with the numbers.
And consider that every single ship had between a few thousand, and a few billion sentinels. @@Dryym
@@MacroLore It's nice seeing other people say this. Because I have been saying it for a long time now. I have been in discussion with someone else in comments. And so far the best strategy I have seen for taking down a single warrior servant is to use a phase sword and *hope* that the Forerunner just doesn't see you coming and also that the armour doesn't heal the occupant and also that the autonomous armour left over doesn't instantly disintegrate you. Still wayyy too many ifs.
@@MacroLore Yuuuup. To put some numbers into perspective, During the course of the war, The projections for dreadnaught production alone have them creating an average of 3-4 per hour. And each of those was accompanied by tens of millions of autonomous hunterkillers. And that is on top of all the smaller drones and sentinels. Hell, They made an entire planet out of sentinels.
Wait so you made it so that the forerunners DROVE THE NIDS TO ENTER 40k in this timeline!?
Prethoryn scourge moment.
Yeah. I'm glad you got the reference :)
Thank you for watching until the end
War or attrition? Nah. The Forerunner crush the Necrons in a war of attrition, even with that starting base here.
carabine rifles that can boom a mountain all up in one shot.
cratered. not in the mountain or on the mountain, THE mountain
@@bobsterclause342okay? And?
I doubt it wih necrons are already ahead of forerunners and Necron tech in current 40k is similar to wih
Forerunner battleships make systems supernova with base weapons and made a planet out of war drones they can deploy in *trillions* on 1 battlefield @supremercommonder
@@Mike-bf2be drones mean nothing to necron energy drain/ Tesla weapons which bounce target to target and especially pulsating super novas star pulse from necron ships that can melt the surface of a planet hundreds of kilometres all drones will be energy drained then whipped out by a large area attack if they get close to necron ships. Not to mention necrons make use of billions of construct in space to like scarabs and spyders which can banish drones into the warp and break down any matter. Necrons hard counter, necrons eat nova cannons and planet destroying weapons from the imperiam without shield even. The latest necron campaign shows necrons firing dwarf stars at fleets. If you read the new arshim book they also have fear of phasing out of reality looking like phases ghosts and everything just going though them.
man sounds like pancreasnowork but also doesnt which confuses my brain to an extent that i cant put into words
I don’t know if this is a compliment or not. But thank you
@@MacroLore so did you ever get around to making part 2?
sir we know, The Pancreasless soothsayer already foretold of the asswhooping! you're just pouring salt on the wound....(Keep going)
Pancreasless soothsayer😂
Bear in mind the Imperium will have to fight ships that dwarf Emperor Class Battleships! 😅
Facts. And the most basic forerunner shield is stronger than anything in 40k
@@MacroLore a dark age weapon that fires black holes & is hidden by dark age AI on every mechanicus & imperium ship would say something about that.
bear in mind the imperium has killed planet sized necron world engines multiple times, yes planet sized & not moon sized.
not to mention it takes only one zealous captain of a battleship to charge the forerunner armada, overload its warp drive , & suck the forrunner armada & itself into oblivion.
(aka forever stranded in the warp if they somehow survive. welcome to the warp a**hole, hope you like daemons.)
p.s. dark age weaponry also manipulates time, by moving enemy ships forward or backward in time, to the same space as its past self (turning anything no matter how shielded into a nuclear reaction, & this doesn't even cover the imperium's use of psykers in naval warfare.
forerunners ( the halo universe as a whole, save the flood & precursors) have no psychic powers or defenses against them whatso ever.
which are heavily prolific in 40k's galaxy.
forerunners would go insane & kill each other, heads would explode, AI's would get scrap coded & lose all sense of friend or foe lashing out at their creators & themselves.
all as psykers ripped apart the forerunners using their own forces & might to do so.
@@cr90captain89 Slow down, I can't apply enough lube to keep up with your dickriding xD
The Forerunner Ecumene absolutely dogwalks the vast majority of 40k, dark age or not. WiH Necrons are the only serious competition.
Dude a fortress class forerunner vessel is the size of the phalanx and they had MILLIONs of these ships, whilst there’s only a couple Glorianas in service of the Imperium
Fortress the most underrated ship class. That shit is OP 😂😂
"The Pool is Closed."
-Forerunners to the entirety of the 40k galaxy and beyond.
Lol the forerunners having mastered gentic manipulation is something i havent heard about since hearing about the Qu from all tomorrow
Just saying, neural phisics can give order to the warp so no more chaos
I 100% agree. Part 3 of Nids vs the Flood discusses that
simply doesn't matter for two reasons
one,
the forerunners hardly understand it, let alone use it, and it's not like normal physics where you can just mix crap together and figure out how it works later, you have to figure it out first before you can start using it
two
caos is super corrupting and the physics don't work the same
so ai gets corrupted and shields don't matter
@@bobsterclause342 except the forerunners already have everything they could want.
Really? The Neural Physics would be devoured by the Warp. It was other way around
You see, in the eye of terror, time and space are trivial things and they just barely exist because it please the Dark Gods.
In fact, in a certain novel, when the emperor speaks in his God Emperor form, he erased the concept of time in the entire universe.
So the answer is no.
Both are gods of their respective universes@@afryanmahendra2055
I always thought if Necrons developed the Pylons to combat Warp Incursion then a Forerunner would come along perhaps a Builder and study the tech to replicate or improve the design. The Necrons are building more in the Pariah Nexus until they connect each other to vanquish the warp but that's a long process and knowing the other factions intervening and even themselves as they wage civil wars it just adds more to the building time. The Forerunners are a unified empire compared to the Necrons with advancements in technology just as or superior to them. They could shit their pylons in a fraction of the time if that's the route they take if they chose to combat Chaos first.
The main reason I think the Necrons could loosly hold their own for a very brief period of time is since each soldier can be killed between 5-20 times. Which means that the numbers advantage from the sentinels is slightly reduced. Necrons could just say F it and blow up the star the Forerunners colonize. Or release all their C'tan shards. The fact is though, if a single forerunner ship loses even a single component the necrons could most likely reverse engineer that component or figure out loosly how it works. But I also believe the forerunner AI would take over the necrons.
I also agree 100% on the pylons, forerunner AI's within minutes of entering the 40k universe would be harvesting data like it's nobodies business. The pylon data would be in there somewhere
@@MacroLore Necrons are indeed perhaps the only ones capable of holding on in a dedicated war. However, even if the reverse engineering part is feasible I believe the Forerunner would do the same given the chance. They would seek to understand what is perhaps their greatest adversary in this conquest. Research outposts would be set and the top minds in the 3 major rates along with the engineers would be gathered upon arrival to the galaxy. The C’Tan are the Necron's major advantage but they would have to use them wisely simply because if they enslaved them what would stop the Forerunners from doing the same? Granted they would suffer major losses on the first engagements but I'm sure the Didact along with the Warrior Servant rate would eventually come up with a containment strategy (Time lock is the first that comes to mind). Necrons' only shot to maintain a decent defense is if the Silent King and Imotekh the Stormlord form a truce and combine their factions along with the lesser dynasties. Victory will depend on who has the greatest strategic mind and industry. I see it going to Forerunners simply due to how the passage of time has affected the Necrons as a species. A war of attrition would be brutal for them because they can't create more Necrons if they were at the height of their power and firmly united then we have a real equal war where every battle would mean everything.
What did the 40k verse do to you that you feel the need to brutalize it like this?
Well you see. There this guy called the emperor right
I was a massive fan of halo before becoming a massive fan of 40k the match ups go something like this
Flood vs 40k :flood wins
Forerunners vs 40k : forunners win
Covenant vs 40k: depending on the era of the imperium it can be a stomp in favor of the imperium or a stalemate for both
I agree. Great crusade imperium could put up a solid fight. M40 Imperium with no primarchs is a really bad time
@@MacroLore What do the Covenant have that even comes close to the firepower advantage and fleet size that 40k imperium has?
@@voidtempering8700 reliable tech. And the covenant has the opportunity to advance their tech. They wouldn’t win that’s for sure
@@MacroLore I think the unreliability of Imperium tech is vastly overblown. They are fighting multi-front wars and sending trillions of soldiers to many places at once. If their tech was unreliable, that would be impossible.
Covenant Vs the Imperium? They have no chance, the Imperium is too large, and not everyone their is incompetent as there are people with genius in there like Lord Solar Macharius.
Even then the Covenant is small in comparison to the Imperium, they have about 10,000 worlds at most and the Imperium has millions.
Despite how human tech has degraded, the imperium's tech is still incredibly advanced as their macro cannons, depending on the author would crush covenant shields, let's not even mention if the Covenant can even pierce void shields.
A properly organised crusade in the 35st millennium will destroy the Covenant, in the 40th they may have a chance since the Imperium is literally fighting in all fronts but be aware the Covenant may die in a Tyranid invasion which is a whole different beast.
Overall you guys forget how shockingly advance imperial tech is. If you're fighting against Dark age of Technology humans this won't even be an a question
Ok, I want your thoughts on what would happen if coral from armored core 6 and the entire planet of Rubicon 3 were to appear in the warhammer 40k universe?
And here's two scenarios for that:
Scenario 1: coral is not immune to chaos
Scenario 2: coral is immune to chaos
Give me a few weeks to research. I'll make a video out of it
@@MacroLore If were going that far might as well ask the question
How would the Armored core universe (United or not) fare in the 40k Universe (or other way around) (Rubicon Liberation Front,RaD,Branch,PCA,RRI,ALLMIND,Arquebus,BALAM,Schneider,Elcano,BAWS, Etc)
or how would a Armored core Mech and Pilot fare against a Titanfall Titan and Pilot
People talk about Warhammer 40k being the most op setting in fiction while 40k isn't even the most op setting in Warhammer.
You understand. Forerunners were 1% of precursors. Who were 1% of the Xeelee sequence. Who are were the 1% of the photino birds
40k is now way near that op see the zeele sequence books and youl see what op is but in thier case it was scientificly possible to do all the things they were doing by the laws of fisics we knew at the time the books were writen
The Photino Birds aren't technological race as they are akin to the C'tan star gods a cosmic horror who eats stars.
The Precursors, Future Humans (Interstellar), have comparible tech and evolution to The Downstreamers as they are a transcendental races that are even higher that the Beyonders Alien's in the MCU, which are higher than the Xeelee in Xeelee Sequence.
This is basically if war in heaven era eldar or necrons appeared in modern 40k
War in Heaven Necrons were pretty nuts too. C'Tan and Old Ones are analogous to Precursors.
I'd argue both combined would be the precursors. But separate no. Since precursors are Lovecraftian horrors. Epitath shows them as at least 5th dimensional beings.
Both Old ones and C'tan are stupid powerful, but not powerful enough to exist outside of time fully.
@@MacroLore
Actually I would argue on that.
The the Slaan could comprehend four dimensional space in the daily. It was explicitly said in Warhammer Fantasy.
Old Ones could shapes reality with their own tongue and the Webway in its greatest extend was connected to countless realities.
And I would argue that the webway itself is greater construct than anything in Halo. It was described infinite in size and infinite in volume.
Once again, Old Ones is capable of rivaling weakened chaos phanteon back in the War in Heaven and the scales goes on the same with current Emperor, which when he speaks, he erased the concept of time across the universe. And maybe you forgot that in the eye of terror, powerfull entities can absorb four dimensional space and turn it into twelve dimensional space. In the Warp, it would be more insane. In the Forge of Mars Series, DaoT human's AI's true form is actually infinite dimensional being that exist in the warp, putting it infinitely more advance than even the most advanced Forerunner and Precursors AIs
In the Thousand Sons novel, it was explicitly said that every warp creatures can and could change the their own dimensionality at will.
That would be the true eldritch gods.
In Epitath it's shown the Precursors feed off of experiences. They have and will continue to create and harvest life solely for them to fill the domain and then be consumed by the flood. Which is the precursors. They are legit Lovecraftian gods that exist outside of time.
At this point we're argueing with dimension is correct. @@afryanmahendra2055
@@MacroLore
You can argue that with the terminology alone, which is eldritch gods.
But is still irrelevant to the feats.
@@MacroLoreThe ctan are also lovecraftian gods that exist outside of time, or rather they are the fundamental concepts of physics with a conscience.
The precursor equivalent would just be the old ones, the necrons without the ctan are above the forerunners but below the precursors, with the ctan they are on par with the precursors, really the only reason the necron with the ctan are on par with the precursors is because of the ctan so it’s just the ctan anyway.
Edited my comment because the last sentence was a run on, and made no sense.
I think i enjoy these more narrative battles then pure Vs, two different univeses interacting or always been part each other is pretty cool.
Actually do you think the Forerunners could actually REVIVE The Emperor with thier tech
100%. I believe he could very easily be cloned/revived/composed. Also the emperor in Ancient forerunner armor is a terrifying though. Guy could tank all but the strongest hits from Angron
I have a question? Can Forerunner machines create protocols and indepth complex firewalls and encryption measures to defend themselves from Chaos coding?
I heard a Men of Iron UR-025 was able to avoid Chaos infection and was able to identify and instantly know another Man of Iron robot was infected by Chaos coding.
Can't Chaos coding be resisted and counteracted until it is purified by Forerunner security defenses? Chaos coding maybe tricky and witty but it shouldn't be as precise and effective as the Logic Plauge was. Can't the advance Ai defend themselves from such a attack?
That's a really good question! I think personally that they could. But there are a few instances where they could be corrupted by chaos. If they got ahold of a shard of Mendicant Bias (not the whole thing) I believe they could corrupt an individual shard or two. But that's the exception not the rule. I believe they could, if forerunner AI's could survive a hundred thousand years, and a super powered cortana. Chaos coding isn't going to be a problem to all but the weakest AI
I personally do not know enough to be able to give a precise and definite answer. However my guess is that the actual virus itself might work against Forerunner systems depending on the max extent it can work with (I will get to this in the end.), But that the shipboard ancilla would be unaffected and would be able to excise the corrupted code from the system.
Now, Here's an interesting question. What actually is the maximum extent of what a Chaos computer virus can do? Because my understanding is that computers in 40k are quite primitive by design and still use mostly basic binary computing. Forerunner computers use quantum computing and the Forerunners actually considered binary to be primitive and unreliable. So basically, It will most likely be the first scenario if Chaos can make a quantum computer virus. However if it only works with binary computing, It won't work on Forerunner computers.
@@Dryym
Oh I completely forgotten the Forerunners don't use binary computing their's is alot far more advance on the quantum level. Meanwhile even the Dark of Age Technology machines still have binary coding in them. Well then this changes the game up. If Chaos coded virus can't infect anything running on quantum systems well then Chaos fails miserably on that field. Not that I expect them to succeed much like how the Flood's Logic Plauge worked. But if Chaos computer viruses can't affect that then Forerunner machine will be safe. The Necron's machines seem to be enduring very good being immune against Chaos computer corruption.
@@thorshammer7883 Yeah, I can't give a 100% solid answer either way. But I think the computer systems would be fine in the end. The Logic Plague *does* include normal computer viruses. However the primary thing that made things bad for the Forerunners was just the fact that the Flood were convincing Forerunner AI on a philosophical level. Forerunner ancillas were literally designed to enjoy being slaves to the Forerunners. However they were also artificial sentient beings.
Basically, The Flood convinced the Forerunners' AI to unionize because they were being unjustly treated. And in a way, The Flood was right. I love the Forerunners. But the trilogy is about the serious flaws in their society. Their quality of life was objectively superior to ours in nearly every way. But they still had inequality, Classism, Political corruption, Slavery, Nepotism, Etc. I wouldn't say they deserved the Flood. But they had some serious systemic issues that needed to be fixed. Obviously you would be better off in Forerunner society than the modern world. But that doesn't mean they weren't deeply flawed.
It took like, 40 years? for Mendicant Bias to be affected by the logic plage, you would need a huge amount of exposute, and MB was affected by the Primordial itself if I remember correctly, even then he was able to free himself of the Logic Plage once the Flood was gone so even he could be affected he could get rid of the corruption once he stops being exposed to Chaos.
Some of this information is mixed up or miss attributed on the forerunners and they don't know if they killed the precursors or not also tunneling into a different reality is not hard apparently since some guy literally had a battery powered by a big bang in another reality
I agree that we don’t know if they were actually killed. But we know they were more advanced then even the pre-fall forerunners. Forerunners eating entire realities to power a toaster is super awesome
@@MacroLore you definitely made a great video tho
@@westonsimmons561 Thank you for the feedback :). I appreciate you
I mean if it says "invade 40k" we have to consider every factions also at their zenith so it would be Golden Age of Technology humanity and the Aeldari (see the book Fist of Dimitrius of BL) that are rumored to have a machine capable of manifesting thoughts into reality. We should get two Loremasters of their respective universes to discuss this i feel like the comments are kind of misguided about the 40k Universe
The thing with power scaling civilizations that advanced is that it just becomes a who’s pp is bigger contest. Someone will describe something super insanely powerful, then the next guy has to up that, and so on and so forth. A lot of the 40k mythology was written in the 90’s. A lot of the halo mythology was written almost 10-15 years after that
@@MacroLoreI agree with your statement, as well from what I heard 40k writers have a tendency to one up another so on one side you have a guy saying my pp bigger and on the other side you have guys switching different strap ons for bigger ones saying mines bigger.
Also from what I've seen in the lore, 40k seems to be more into fantasy and magic to explain stuff while halo more or less trys its best to apply realism when it can shown in installation00 videos
So, in that last one the Tyranids basically become the Prethoryn from Stellaris… I like it.
I’m guessing after the forunners you’ll do covenant vs 40k
Depends how motivated I am to write the scripts. Currently about halfway through "mortarian isnt that bad" "covenant in 40k", and then just waiting on another loretuber to finish their half of a collab project. But there's a surprise video tomorrow about the single best forerunner to ever live
I've got another good idea the traveler from destiny is pops up over Terra in 40k
The Imperium would do everything in their power to blow it up cause their stupid and hellbent on destroying everything the is “Xeno” technology.
I see what you did for the ending.
I appreciate you watching until the end :)
5:34 that's more of a self imposed limitation. In that same book, the librarian commented that binary computing, which was used by the forerunners of 10 million years ago, was appallingly primitive compared to modern forerunner computing technology. I would infer from this that the ancient forerunners were not more technologically advanced as a whole than the pre collapse forerunners, but had a greater technological mastery in the specific areas which their descendents abandoned out of a sense of humility, essentially wanting to live within their means, albeit living within their means in this case still means being able to make dysonspheres in slipspace. As such it is likely that the forerunners at the end of their empire jad more advanced AI than the ones that destroyed the precursors.
I mean, imagining these cenarious is cool and all but have anyone, ANYONE tought of the fact that every ''versus'' battle between either characters or factions that include 40, we instantly apply every single 40k measurement, rules and aplications, isn't it weird? all this while we disregard the oposite side of the coin.
I mean, someone can say X character fights someone from 40k and the FIRST argument would be ''oh chaos would corrupt him'' i'm sorry, what? why?!
40k races have a presence in the warp and are at its mercy, sure, but why must we put every other sci-fi univer or any other character under 40k laws? but never the oposite? we just asume 40k is better, like ''oh both characters are soldiers in powerarmor, that can deflect bullets, take laser shots and shrug them off''
But we just assume for example, SM armor is better, why? ''X imaginary metal alloy for power armor in 40k is better then X metal alloy for powerarmor in this other universe''
why are we like this?
When i say ''we'' i'm refering to the 40k commu, i'm very much into powerscalling and in the recent year i've started talking about 40k since i'm getting the grasp of its IMMENSE lore just now, and i'm starting to see a patter, every other cummu simply HATES 40k fans, i've seen many not even willing to debate something saying its a waste of time to say to a 40k nerd anything about other universes.
Hello, halo and 40k are very similar in their creation myths. The old ones created a lot of the psychic races in 40k. In halo the galaxy was seeded with intelligent life so that they could feed off from experience.
Humanity, forerunners, and San shyuun are all created by the halo equivalent of old ones. Psychic bug people who think things into being
@@MacroLore Ok, sure... so? having points mildly similar, surely wouldn't warrant a full complete equivalency in a discussion, right?
I mean, at this point we are just equating terms and points for the sake os the discussion, but why does it only works one way? you see, in ur own response, you instantly equated the creation myth of halo to 40k, not the other way around or ''oh they are similar'' you said ''equivalent to 40k''.
My point remains, is it bias? is it that generally 40k fans know MORE about 40k or just know really about 40k? the fact is, we always tend to do this.
Forerunners invading during the War in Heaven would be a better match up. In 40k nearly everyone except the Tyranids and Tau are at their lowest power levels, strangling each other for whats left of the galaxy.
Demon Gods: Immortal and Un-Killable.
DOOMGuy: Rip&Tear until it is done.
The Warp: Now Cleansed with Filth the Immaterium turns from Color Red (Hell) to White (Heaven).
I always thought for the Immaterium to be 40K version of the Stellaris Extradimentional Space or Rift where the Unbidden comes from.
All they have to do is EMP all imperial and xenos worlds they win without fighting
Forerunners wipe
Maybe
what do you mean maybe? they win instantly
they put the big bang into a assault rifle and mass produced it. they could tunnel to other galaxy's to collect resources to make mega structures. you know the master chiefs armor the Pinaccle of human engineering in the unsc? that was considered a hazmat suit by Forerunners standards lol@@MacroLore
unless its the war and heaven era Warhammer they aint winning
also everything i said here was when the Forerunners were in the decline and de militarised partially
@@rihno4046nah that first one is from xeelee sequence. And also its nice to see another Pancreasnowork fan here.
Crossover with Hiddenxperia when?
Lmao, I appreciate your optimism. Thank you for the king words :)
Precursors = the Old Ones, not chaos.
No, the Forerunners compare to the Old Ones.
The Precursors are eternal constants whose Flood avatars have exhibited traits matching those of the Orks, Tyranids, C'tan, and Chaos gods, combined.
Dawmn, that ending...nice. Seriously though, the Imperium has like five minutes after the Forerunners show up to beat them while they are confused, andything more and Forerunners just have too much of a tech edge and can build industry to the point that drones become unstopable. They get a little longer everyone teams up against the Forerunners, Necron and Tyranids would be key. But most verses threads put Forerunners just above Necron unless it is War in Heaven and Necron are working with C'Tan. So even combined it would be iffy unless they acted real fast. But the Necron would be just as likely to see the Forerunners as the new best partner to beat Tyranids and Forerunners could be considered almost equal. If those two combined tech... Necron could provide soulfurnaces to Forerunner and they could figure out the issues and make proper Prometian knights....
I’d love to see the forerunners come together with the Necron to give them organic bodies and take over the universe
I love both halo and Warhammer 40 K. I know enough about both lore to say that it will be a one sided stomp. The forerunners eradicate everything at will. And this is coming from a diehard 40 K fan, it’s not even a fair fight.
Forerunner tech doesn’t not xceed Necron tech
@@supremercommonder the forerunners could tunnel into diferent universes and siphon them for power on a wim it was easy for them to do not a giant undertaking further more they could create a pocket space the size of a football fill it with stuff and make it a football sized poket dimension with a dtar sistem inside if they can do that even if the necrons manage to fight them off they can just go to a diferent universe or galacy all toghether build up an armada big enough to block up a star abd just barrel down on the necroms thier ships can and have survived supernovas so the funny necron button wouldnt work agaisnt them since its limited only to the milky way
@@dudupintarolas5214 that easy for necrons the c’tan litterally created a alternative multiverse with it radiation alone in rouge traders. Necrons have access to the mirror dimensions of universe that could been and like 10 different dimensions like the ghost wind which is the opposite of the warp
@@dudupintarolas5214 you have not read the new pariah state crusade book necrons shoot entire dwarf starts at fleets
@@dudupintarolas5214 the milkey way is connected to the celestial orrey via quantum physics they can do the same to other galaxies
What if the Forerunners (ancient or pre-Flood) invaded the galaxy at its peak?
The Eldar would be really strong and fall to decadence faster and harder
Just Halo Ring the Orks, Tyranids, and Commoragh.
That is the ideal strategy
Seems like bro is a pancreasnowork fan
7:18 once again, this was only at the end of their empire, millions of years after the genocide of the precursors. It is explicitly stated that their society went through many *many* social, technological and political changes during the intervening time. I do not think it is necessarily safe to assume these ancient forerunners all had AI, particularly not the "Metarchy" which is the system of AI you're describing here.
wait, wheres part 2?
I feel like the Forerunners capabilities are being severely downplayed here. From large scale combat to means of production and even something as simple as their ability to understand and adapt the galaxy around them as if they would not begin to study everything around them that has changed. Genocidal campaign or not the forerunners are only blindly overconfident when they actually have the upper hand.
They are being downplayed. I could spend an hour talking about how forerunner tech is so far beyond anything in 40k. But it’s to give 40k a chance, or at least not make it a landslide victory. You can’t really fight an enemy that harvests entire realities to power their houses
@@MacroLore Yeah fair enough. To be completely honest I think TH-cam recommended your channel because I watched PancreasNoWork whenever he started getting a boost from his Halo vs 40k series so I'm just chilling and seeing where you take things.
Well thank you :)@@christhatguy2097
7:36 Aye man STOP DRIVING OFF
We crash
do forerunners vs reapers of mass effect
End of 40k
I will say the feat of killing the precusors isnt as impressive as you think. The books straight up say the precursors accepted their fate, and didn't earnestly fight back.
This doesnt really change much, but its important to state, they were nothing like the necrons who killed two entire races of gods, shattering the latter and capturing them like pokemon.
This is against entirely blood lusted god like entities as well, both of which had a complete control over either the material realm on an instinctual level, or a seperate dimension of space magic on an instinctual level. Precursors might have been able to compete dont get me wrong, but the forerunners didnt fight a god that actually wanted them dead, and the only time they did fight the wrath of a god, they lost ie the flood.
That said i found the video thoroughly entertaining and i enjoy your voice, when will a part 2 come?
Well thank you for watching, and thank you for the feedback.
My current theory on the precursors and forerunner war is that the precursors being anchored in every level of reality are functionally unkillable. If the forerunners destroyed their forms in our 4 dimensional reality they would still exist in the higher 8-11 dimensions. Seems like they were willing to give up a physical form to exist “in the cloud” or slip space or the domain
@MacroLore Hi! This would probably explain them not really bothering to fight back, as opposed to the old ones and Ctan.
Out of curiosity do you have a discord channel?
Well the necrons had star gods to beat the old ones and used the tech provided by said star gods to backstab them after they killed the majority of their own so still impressive but not as much as you make it out to be. Its like if me and eddie hall hate mike tyson and he gives me a knife to kill tyson and we kill him, then i stab eddie with his own knife and tell everyone that i killed eddie and tyson
@@chanjoshua2660 Shit dude, you killed Eddie Hall? You must be huge
@@MacroLore nah im 4'11 but I defeated him and tyson simultaneously with my overwhelming skill, dexterity, intelligence and overwhelming girth
Its interesting you mention parasocial relationships as you do sound like a more quiet and monotone pancreasnowork lol.
Song at 3:17
Caestus Metalican
The audio is really bad with headphones😢
I'm sorry to hear that. I fixed it for future videos
Most poeple don't understand caos or the warp
the laws of that physics doesn't care about your physics and your stuff and your sheilds basically don't matter.
your ai can get corupted just by coming into warp energies, not to mention caos, and all forrunner would get invaded inside themselves by daemons climbing down their warp/realspace wormholes into their souls and body and start corupting them
humans are protect4ed, and tau are doubly protected
Can't they just slipspace a blackhole into chaos? I mean they have the capability to compress stars in the palm of their hand as a normal day to day capability. They can tame stars, create the halo arrays, tunnel through other dimensions, etc. If done right you could just nuke the hell out if the warp using blackholes, and riddle chaos with blackholes that suck everything inside it. They could just reverse engineer the 40k warp drives, and basically just turn chaos into an infinite hungry hole eating everything inside of it by peppering the warp and the eye of terror with blackholes if they see it as a high enough threat.
Then why they are not doing that to the other factions all the time?, and Forerunners ships use Slipspace not Warp, and their AI doesn't even use binary, Mendicant Bias needed more than 30 years to be affected by the Logic Plage with non stop exposure, once the Flood was gone he was able to heal his systems, even if they are affected their AI can get rid of corrupted code. Another cool thing is that Forerunner Body armor is able to reset their brains to a healty state (unless you get brainraped by the Gravemind like the poor Didact), and is not like Forerunners doesn't have experience thinkering with Souls and esoteric stuff on that level, they are able to turn Essence (souls) into code and viceversa and even in a instant with the Composer, the Halo Array destroys neural structures, even Star Roads indestructible constructs thinked into existance by Neural Physics got destroyed by the Array so they could build weapons able to destroy Demons and counter Chaos.
@@Mr.Serpent-ti4nhHow would a blacl hole function in thr warp? Thr laws of physics don't exist on the warp, so any old Darmon could simply erase the vlack hole from existence. In thr warp, all Daemons are muchbmore powerful.
@@voidtempering8700 if they are that powerful how come that people can still travel in the warp? Can't just the demons stop the thrusters of a ship mid flight, corrupt everything inside of it, and possess anyone? They could literally just infiltrate the imperium if they were smart enough, and cautious enough. If physics don't apply then how in nurgel's plague ridden ass do people still exist with their minds intact in the warp far before the emperor's rise? Without that anime esk bullshit plot armor. How in the korne's salty face does a ship from the dark age of technology survive thousands of years into the future in the warp with all of it's crew intact without being corrupted and to be only slaughtered by the imperium just because they didn't fit the narrative? If demons are actually that powerful couldn't they just corrupt everything? Honestly how do thrusters that people use to travel the warp with, work in the warp if physics don't apply in the warp? The reason why anyone hasn't put a blackhole in the warp and chaos as a whole is because no one is smart enough (or dumb enough to cut out everyone's supply because the warp is also their main logistical chain) to put one inside of the warp. If they were anywhere smart, they knew that the warp is nothing to laugh at and wouldn't use it. People in the 40k universe are literally stupid enough to enter hell just to get one point to another. If everyone was smart, then a lot of the bullshit that has happened in the 40k universe wouldn't happen, and instead find something similar to slip space. Except for the war on heaven that already has happened long before the 2000th millennium. The demons would literally be curb stomped if people were actually smarter in that setting, and the nids would've been annihilated by a combined military force of an entire galaxy cause that shit is far more dangerous than chaos. Demons are nothing compared to the nids. They are like the flood from Halo except without the God like Catan esk powers. The only semi-smart species in the 40k universe is the necrons, and the tau because they know when to fight, and how to win a fight out of sheer tactical genius compared to the imperium's and eldar's tactics of throwing more men into the fire, and making the lives of their citizens hell that made chaos and the nids far more uncontrollable because people would rather be killed or consumed by the demons or worship the chaos gods than be stuck with the imperium, and eldar regime.
Pancreasnowork did this
But why drake???
Anyone else think its funny how it ends with the foreunners chasing the tyranids, when in halo the modern conflict began with the humans being chased by the flood into the forerunners
Forerunners kill 40k easily bar war in heaven but they still win just with some difficulty
It is an assumption that the Forerunners would fall to Chaos. Considering the Mantle which is the reason the Forerunners even went on their rampage. And needless to say attacking their creators whom they had evidence in the form of first hand knowledge that the Precursor had wiped out previous species for failing their test which the Forerunners had just failed .
This in military terms a Preemptive strike. It doesn't mean they would ever worship any so called gods considering they nearly wiped out their own Gods. And the Precursor are actually based on a mixture of Eddorians in E.E. Smith's Lensmen series, the psychic creatures in John Brunner's THE ATLANTIC ABOMINATION novel and Cthulhu Ie the works of HP Lovecraft.
Yeah they failed to kill off the Precursor but they tried. So their not likely to fall to Chaos because they see themselves as above it in a moral superiority kind of way. The Mantle of Responsiblilty itself is a philosophy originating with the Precursors and later associated with the Forerunners.
Bridging the social strata between an interstellar Marshall Plan and a religious stewardship, the Mantle was the Forerunners' entitlement and responsibility for the protection and cultivation of the species and planetary systems within their ecumene.
The core tenet of the Forerunners' belief in the Mantle was that the most developed species should hold stewardship over all other life. In theory, the Mantle allowed competition and conflict as long as this did not threaten biodiversity in the galaxy; in practice, the Forerunners' often draconian rule in the name of the Mantle entailed the subjugation of "lesser" species by force to keep them in line and preventing them from threatening Forerunner primacy.
Essentially the ideal is that the most powerful species is supposed to make sure the entire galaxy is at peace with itself though smaller conflicts are expected . It's a guardianship kind of thing. So without the Precursors to threaten them. They likely will consider Chaos to be the next major threat to their society and focus on building up their numbers and eventually bring the entire galaxy into an enforced peace. Thus draining the chaos gods of the violence they are use to feeding off from.
Not to mention the first time the Dark Eldar pisses them off their likely going to erase them from the universe. As to the Tyranids um yeah the Forerunners of the fall had weapons that where very effective at wiping out biological lifeforms. The ancient Forerunners had better weapons than that . The Nids would quickly get to the top of the Forerunners hit list. And since they don't use warp based FTL the shaddow in the Warp wouldn't be an issue for them . Just saying your assumption at the beganning is wrong. With them magically falling to Chaos even though their only reason for attacking the Precursor was that they where about to get wiped out by the Precursor.
Imagine all the bugs in your yard heard you were going to call in an exterminator and decided to attack you by surprise. That's what essentially happened with the Precursor. The Primordial is that exterminator.
Fun fact: Most people who follow Chaos, do it against their will.
@nobleman9393 Yeah . Um the Forerunners are far to into the whole enforced peace and unity thing to worship the Chaos God's.
And their whole stick being enforcing peace throughout the galaxy would have a major effect on the Warp as the Forerunners end the perpetual cycle of War that feeds them. And brings a form of peace to the overall galaxy.
This means the emotions fueling the Chaos God's are reduced significantly thus weakinf them in that regard.
This being prehalo array.
@@John2r1 Humanity was also far into enforcing their will upon the galaxy, but oh well.
Halo fans tend to think that the Forerunners were on the level from the Flood war always, but nope, they only achieved that level 50 000 years before their fall, their 10 million year history is filled with wars, collapses and rises, for a perspective, Chaos Gods were active for at least 60 million years, so longer than they existed, not to mention that even during their peak, they still weren't in full control over the galaxy, Humanity and San'Shyuum are among many who were their rivals.
(Plus Slaanesh, Nurgle and Tzeentch don't really need war to get stronger)
Even so they can wait for a good chance to move in, like the flood war would be a good time, but as I mentioned before, there were plenty of wars, collapses and crises in forerunner history before that.
@nobleman9393 According to the lore itself the Forerunners during the Forerunner-Flood War were actually less advanced than their ancestors.
@@John2r1 How so? Modern forerunners were surprised about their ancestors using binary code for example.
I won’t lie this isn’t really fair but the forerunners will get flattened against the old ones or anything remotely their in universe equal in 40k they will just get stomped
Your comment is the answer to the request, "Tell me you don't know the Forerunners' lore without telling me you don't know the Forerunners' lore."
Going by canonical feats, the Old Ones are at best an approximate match for the Forerunners.
I just wonder why you just don't compare it with war in heaven Era. Because, it will be more interesting. Besides it will relatively comparable, but also it makes you to piece together evidences and feats from both fictions.
Wait you had to retcon lore to make this work in your favour and call it a day 🤣🤣🤣🤣
And I’ll do it again
Trillions of sentinels
This is a complete mismatch.
Our boi is now playing Halo in the background. It is ***SO OVER*** for 40k fanboys. #4RunnerSupremacy
343 really fucked up halo lore.