How Gacha Games Trick Players Into Spending Thousands
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
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Edited by Kaage021 | / kaage021
#atrioc #MarketingMonday #gacha
00:00 Gacha Games Introduction
00:22 He Spent $70,000....
2:26 History of Gaming Revenue
3:33 Genshin Impact
5:07 #1 Tactic - Signups
6:07 #2 Tactic - Battle Passes
6:35 #3 Tactic - Currencies
7:33 #4 Tactic - Social Proof
9:57 #5 Tactic - Endless Items
12:10 Which gamer type are you?
15:19 Loss Aversion
17:30 The Ikea Effect
18:16 Anchoring Effect + Other Fallacies
19:26 Dark Future
20:41 We're all susceptible / Outro - เกม
Atrioc mispelling tatic is actually a strategy to get people commenting and boosting the algorithm
Saw it, scrolled down to say it, and here it is. Glizzy Typo
lol true
Also "expierences"
Ah yes the "Subject: sdfg" gambit
Well I hate it
The hardest part of Gacha Games is when you spend all this money, you make yourself feel bad by not playing it anymore. You tell yourself that, "I spent X dollars, if I stop playing its wasted money". I am here to tell you that it is okay! Stop playing them. I spent $2000 on Seven Deadly Sins 2 years ago. And I stopped because I realized it was getting out of hand. Had i still been going I would have wasted more money. Luckily at the time wasting that money wasn't living outside my means, but I would rather have spent the 2,000 on something that was actually useful.
yup sunken cost fallacy. i’ve definitely been there before!
Yep a simple trick to overcome this is by realizing that every online service game will eventually be discontinued. A popular game will have a better longevity but it won't last forever. In other words, you don't actually own the characters you pulled for. Once you realise that it becomes obvious that by not quitting you will waste more money than you already have.
@@yqisq6966 This.
My only poison still is playing and obviously paying for cosmetic skins in like in Fortnite
No more bad money added to bad money lets go
fuck, now that i think about it, i think I've reached this point but with time I've invested, not money
I used to be a mobile whale, I was number one in my server on z girls and day one dropped my entire tax return on fire emblem heroes rolling for 5 stars. I legit picked up a second job and was spending a check and a half a week on mobile games. I stopped 3 years ago, I'm still 9 grand in debt. I am booboo the fool.
Hang in there champ takes balls to admit ones own errors
Atrioc, i know your comment section/reddit is usually just full of memes and sarcastic jokes but I just want to say that I appreciate the amount of time and effort that you put into these streams/videos. I spent 5 years completing my economics degree and none of the content that I was taught was nearly so topical and relevant as what you consistently put out every marketing Monday. None of the professors were anywhere near as engaging, informative, or charismatic as you consistently are. I appreciate your contribution to helping each of us better understand the complex world we live in and helping all us frogs find our productive place in society.
Very kind of you to say - but, to be fair, I am surely a lot older than all of your economics professors.
Glad you enjoy and good luck finding your place in the world.
@@atrioc no shot Big A made an old joke about himself. This gotta be QuacK or something.
I was never able to go to college due to my health issues but I have always really missed learning new things and gaining a better understanding of the world. These videos have given me at the least a small amount of that, and we definitely appreciate it. I think the same way Atrioc predicts the pendulum will swing back towards ppl wanting quality challenging games, I also believe it will swing back away from mind numbing content and more towards informative stimulating content like we see here.
@@bakublader1999 I'm not sure. Maybe if we say enough nice things about him he will eventually admit to having glizzy hands.
@@user-gi1pk7xs3q ahhh the long game I see
Well, they’re called gacha games for a reason. They gacha life savings
Facts
Reported
Good one
Gottem 👌
It’s a genshen impact on your wallet
I can only imagine its his years of working in the corporate industry, that makes him so good at presenting data. How he does it so entertaining for us is beyond me.
i had the same thought. Like if my teacher back in the day could hold my attention like this maybe I would have done something out of my life
if only he wouldn't spread misinfo
@@rajder656 did he actually spread misinfo in this game? not tryna disagree just curious
@@doggerlander 1st very obvious one. Genshin only has 3 currencies. Mona which is a f2p ONLY currency that you get for quests exploring etc. Primogems which you use to buy fates which are used to summon characters/weapons which you get normally and you can use them to restore resin which limits how much you can play the game but you can use genesis crystals the third and last currency which is a premium only currency that can ONLY be used to buy primogems in a 1:1 ratio so 60 crystals = 60 primogems. Star glitter/dust you get for free with every roll you make and is used as kind of a pity system where you can buy different stuff for them from more fates to characters weapons and materials. Social proof is the worst take i heard by far because it's just stupid. People share a happy moment where they got a rare character is not that different than them getting a penta in league or ace in cs2. The pity in genshin is quite generous too so within 50-60 rolls (you usually) have a pretty high chane of getting it especially if you use the star/glitter you can get additional 5 10 fates. A lot of arguments are based also on a dev conference of a guy speaking to a primarily western audience and is a ceo of a company who made only 1 succcessfull mobile game in 2013 and the video is from 2016 as well.
Losing at SSBM in his youth is my bet
Me when I watched this video 2 years ago: I will never fall for any of these tricks
Me now: Hello fellow Atrioc subs
whats up fellow member of the glizzy gang
One part you missed, Gacha games instill a sense of dependency like all forms of gambling do. Leading to the victims violently defending their addiction to anyone who points it out to them. “I don’t have a problem, you just don’t understand”
Fortunately for us, we would never fall for such simple psychological tricks, am I right fellas?
Now if you'll excuse me I'm about to drop a stack on the Space Ishtar banner.
I understand me too
I have almost nothing in my bank account , cant be a whale if you don’t have money
@@Drowsyspace128 you say that, but in a year where tectone only earned 3000 dollars he spent i believe it was over a third of that on fucking summoner's war
Same, brother. Wouldn’t catch me *dead* dropping money on a gacha game.
On an unrelated note, Y’all seen that new Yoru comb-knife??
I'd love to talk more about how shit like this could never get us lads but my supermagical chest is almost open so I gotta bounce
Cant wait to repeat all the key information to my boss and co-workers workers in a casual conversation so they think I'm smarter than I am and not the youngest in the office.
I used to play a game called Summoners War, and was pretty deeply addicted to it for a while. Spent waaaay more than I should have. Finally quit, but good lord, after that first $30 purchase, it became so much easier to justify additional spending. A lot of the people I played with were the same way. Another thing they would do is allow you to visit other people's "islands", which meant you could see their characters and the gear they had. They made it easy to find the top 100 players islands, and those are the BIG spenders, the guys who spend $100k or more. So you'd go check out their stuff, and see how much farther ahead than you they were, and realize how big of a difference spending on the game can make. Made it a hell of a lot easier to justify spending money when you see just how much spending money can help the progression of your account.
Yeah, took me a long ass time, but I quit Azur Lane after playing it for over a year. I finally realized I could never collect all the shit because there's always more shit to get.
I don't think I ever hit 1000 dollars, but I spent 500 at least. FUCK that shit. Never letting my kids near any games like that if I can help it.
well i have GREAT news for you brother. summoners war has a soul successor called epic seven where its basically the same game but better. give it a shot PepeLaugh
@@jborgs69 ohh my friend, I appreciate the recommendation, but I am balls deep in E7 right now hahaha. Though it's a much more... Generous, game, so I'm still chilling as far as spending goes haha. That's actually a lot of the reason I started playing years ago!
i played summoners war a year ago and played for like 50hrs-100hrs, my peak was summoning veromos and evolving a few characters, i really liked the game but as soon as i realised how grindy it actually was i noped the fk outta there
Good thing I'm a sigma, I grind for months instead of paying $0.99.
i think the closest i ever got to becoming a guy that spends in videogames a lot was in clash of clans (i played that so much) and there was a lot of videos of people spending crazy amounts of money just for a small progress and if it wasnt for me rediscovering PC games i would have gone deeper in that rabbit hole.
@@fabio5286 I feel like that stuff was/still is extra insidious bc these youtubers often have sponsorships or at least ad revenue to make back the money off of their in game purchases, and thats just not something a kid instinctually thinks about
actual fax, a lot of times if im with my friends and we play some roblox for the laughs i will find the most crack head game and obsess over it for like a week and become like a top player. this addiction is usually fueled by if i see ppl paying to win and i think "fuck you, im gonna destroy u without paying a single dime" and when i do it feels pretty good. probably not worth it but oh well.
True sigmas spend the .99 then realize that spending money ruined their enjoyment for the game and continue in an endless cycle with every new fun mobile game they find.
Stonks
Big A spitting facts
lol
What a time to release this video
epic
Imagine spending money on genshin, right?
true akron
It's so funny to me that as soon as he showed the post about someone getting Keqing on their first try some people in the chat immediately reacted and therefore were being marketed.
What really drives me nuts is when people go out of their way to defend these practices while knowing they are toxic.
Artioc: “Guys don’t spend mindlessly, think about what your spending on.”
Also Artioc: Drops 1k on CSGO cases.
LMAO BRUH
imagine spending on cases
Hypocrites if i may say
csgo is never a good example to use, as they actually retain value, can be sold, whereas items in other games are just for you, no value
@precisiongames1649 CSGO is even worse in that regard because you can convince yourself it's an investment. Gacha games promise no monetary return on your purchases.
Some factors I noticed also contributing to their huge success: Artificial Scarcity and Stockholm Syndrome. I noticed that if you make players spend Hundreds to get a "rare item" then tell them it's like 5 or 6 stars/SSR or whatever terminology, they tell themselves it was worth it. This then also "traps" the player the more and more money they spend, to a point they _force_ themselves to become invested in the game and even stop playing other games/spending on other games. This then creates a Stockholm kind of effect where the player actually becomes MORE attached to the thing actively destroying their wallet and even forcing themselves to see the "Good" in it, even if there isn't that much good to be found. Like some Gachas are pretty good games, but c'mon, don't act like there aren't cheaper games that are mechanically/storywise superior. Because there are better games, especially when you look at it without the "Forced Love" lenses that Gacha money sinks trap their players into.
aka, sunken cost fallacy.
Tbh for gacha games being predatory on huge spenders, Genshin would be the worst example of popular a all the gacha games to use as predatory.
Can’t use the skin argument given that there are only 3 buyable exclusive skins and the rest can be obtained for free by playing the event. For 60 plus characters in the game so far and only 7 skins? Skins aren’t their selling point.
F2P and Payed players have very little differences in terms of experience outside of just having a higher spec character that isn’t even noticeable.
Gacha system that the game has is among the best in the industrygiven that it even has a pity system where it doesn’t even incentives players to spend money.
Credibility is hurt when the in game currency system is explained incorrectly, and Primogems currency can be obtained normally without dropping even a penny.
If anything, the only thing paying can get you is a slightly accelerated experience while F2P players are clearing bosses for payed people.
I don’t even play this game, but watching my son do the gacha system on my TV, it’s really generous.
You keep saying that paying money isn’t necessary and barely even gives a better experience, so how the hell are they making a billion a year off it? You’re saying they made that much in exchange for a “barely noticeable” increase in experience?
@@Bhubnipz I've already replied to you previously with a more in-depth take, but it's just FOMO.
Also, this discussion is more about experience so I'd just add more stuff:
Some characters in this game genuinely have the barely noticeable experience they were talking about. There is a character in the game, of the highest rarity named Childe, that only has a 20% increase in damage from pulling and maxing out his duplicates. Perhaps it sounds reasonable, but the catch is, this character only contribute to 40% of his team's damage. Therefore, that is only around an ~8% overall increase to his team's damage from dumping thousands of dollars. Of course, certain characters can have as much as a 50% increase in damage from duplicates, but I choose to specifically mention this character because his team is the #1 most popular choice for the game's hardest content. Therefore, most people who play him doesn't pull for duplicates and occasionally outright warns people against spending money on him, to an extent that he is one of the least profitable characters in the game.
Ironically, the most popular character for this game's endgame content is one of the least profitable character around in terms of pull rates. So what am I trying to convey here? Most people aren't spending money to get stronger; they are enticed by FOMO - The real predatory practice of the game.
FOMO based on character appeal and playstyle enjoyability, rather than meta, in most cases, because the game is so easy you can clear it with 4*, even ones you get for free, albeit it will be obv harder than getting there even with one 5*, tho considering rates and pity system even that isnt a problem. Plus majority of those money usually are not people buying gem packs - its actually from monthly subscriptions for 5, 11 or 16 bucks or so, depending on what exactly you choose. do not underestimate moderate spenders, especially in such a big game that majority of people can pick up and play right away unlike turn-based gachas and such, they are the pillars of such proportion that the sister game hsr, in order to reach same numbers, actually HAS to sell characters, which in turn leads to powercreep, which is already very noticeable.
i am (mentioning this obligatorily) an f2p player, never spent on this game, i can easily clear 95% of the content, with the 5% being gated only because i am too lazy to grind for gear more than i already have. constellations, which is what you get from getting same character repeatedly from banner till you get 7th copy, at best are minor QOL, so getting them is not mandatory, unless its a gimmicky characters like some 4* are, like gorou and faruzan who are dedicated element supports, but these always go in pair with characters that they are supposed to be supporting, and for some constellations are actually detriment, like Childe's in my experience, or the c6 of 4* character named Bennett.
not saying its not predatory at all cuz all gachas are - you either paying money, or time, but its the least predatory out there simply by how system works, as long as one actually bothers to learn it. the youtuber never did, he said a bunch of lies @@Bhubnipz
As someone who played FEH before Genshin, I was surprised by the pity system because it completely limits how much a whale would even be able to spend. You’re guaranteed to get limited characters and can only benefit from getting them 6 times, so there’s 0 reason to spend more.
Whereas in FEH I don’t believe you’re ever guaranteed someone unless it’s a banner where you get a free character. So you can roll a million times and never get the person you want. Plus, you can +10 a character instead of only C6ing them.
Missleading information: Genshin currency, if your count a item for roll then there are only 4 currency:
- Primogem (ONLY main use for get charater, get from daily chores, if you dont want do daily chores, event each patch have a lot)
- Genesis crystal (fancy primogem you have to pay for, main use is convert 1:1 to primogem or buy a skin, you can buy material but its not as much as you do quest or explore)
- Interwind fate for limited charater (what you should use primogem for)
- Aquaint fate for standard charater who stay there enternity and you eventualy will have them (what you should not use primogem for)
Hey Big A - I work in marketing running ads for amazon/walmart and I cannot emphasize how often I bring up concepts or ideas you talk about in my day to day. You have truly made me better at my job. Thanks for the raise
7:00 "You buy primogems, to turn into fate, to turn into starglitter to roll for stardust"
That's just not true
Nice job releasing this video on Genshin's (almost) anniversary.
the fuckin redditor pfp 💀💀
@@analysis726 its cute
@@yourmomfat yup
@@yourmomfat it'd be cute if it didn't remind people of a website full of insufferable people who think they're way smarter than they are
@@yourmomfat it’s funny as hell to me
The fact these psychological tricks work so well proves we need regulation.
@Zold then why do you think casinos are regulated? There's a reason gambling is banned in most places
@@cyanjackson7689 It's not the same. For example, genshin's gacha mechanism is pseudo-random, you know the maximum and average cost of a character you pull. Casinos are usually true random and have a lot of people cheating.
@@loveear5370 But it could be considered more predatory because it's marketed towards kids ( and ofc socially vulnerable people). To be fair, Atrioc doesn't seem like a Genshin player because their gacha is not very predatory imo. Nothing obtained there is necessary for game progress and overall the game is quite easy with the right characters (that are obtainable without money). However their story quests and character building like hangouts etc HIGHLY incentivizes you to roll for new (paid) characters. They are basically dates that build attachment as if they are real interactions. We are getting closer and closer to Black Mirror every day
I'm on the fence because I hate government regulating things for us, they need to regulate the businesses themselves
Then you will have to regulate each game with levelling and random numbers. I've met a bunch of people who keep playing WoW simply because they've already spent a lot of time on a character with 999999 achievement points.
The fact that Atrioc’s videos are set up like a lecture is quite fascinating
I saw this live and was easily the best Marketing Monday I've seen so far, probably cause I relate a lot to the gacha spending cycle. It's super easy to get in, "Oh it's just 5 bucks" but then after those 5 bucks you feel almost obliged to spend more money. Be safe out there guys, remember at the end of the day, these are just pixels on a screen.
This is a certified Brandon “thumbnail skroinker” Ewing classic
The Star Glitter and star dust isnt how you gamble in genshin. It is simpler than what Atrioc said. Its just $ to genesis crystals to primogems ( this is 1 to 1, so easy) then 160 primogems to buy either type of fate (which is one gamble attempt). That's $2.50 an attempt. I play basically everyday, but haven't spent any money. I started playing about a month from start and have made around gambling attempts. So that's roughly $2750 if it was money.
People play this game and don't spend money.
some do, they just dont buy straight up gems - most buy the subs, which are dirt cheap.
chat got in such heavy denial the second he brought up Genshin lmao
Weebs lol
@@vedaryan334 then why do they only did that for genshin instead of the milion of other anime aestetic games then?
@@yourdad5799 Because 80% of things Atrioc said about GI is factually incorrect.
@@BloodDarkPearl it's not like people will stop playing because one person said something. I play because it's fun and I like exploring. It's a shame that Hoyo is the way they are but they're not going to change so why bother
I was never able to go to college due to my health issues but I have always really missed learning new things and gaining a better understanding of the world. These videos have given me at the least a small amount of that, and we definitely appreciate it. I think the same way Atrioc predicts the pendulum will swing back towards ppl wanting quality challenging games, I also believe it will swing back away from mind numbing content and more towards informative stimulating content like we see here.
Lmao the Clip of Bayonetta when you said “throw your credit card down to get better” had me rolling
Genshin impact deffnately isn't the worst gatha out there, yes it does use these tactic but so does every other gatcha game but genshin also gives you the opportunity to work towards something in the game you want, every piece of content in the game can be obtained without needing to pay with only enough work and patience, and it's not that hard too, unlike in other gathca games where it's made super hard to get something without paying (if not almost impossible) or they indirectly, basically force you to pay by not having guaranteed stuff on pity, you can get to pity as many times as you want but the thing you want is not guaranteed so you don't know how much of whatever currency is in the game you need (basically if there was no guarantee in banners in genshin) here since everything can be gotten for free you're the only one who controls weather you spend or not, so in conclusion there is stuff a lot worse out there, if anyone thinks genshin is a shameless gatcha casino they haven't seen a real shameless gatcha game, alsooo the stuff about currency is..... Well everything else that's for sure, but not the truth, you don't need anything else other than primogems to get what you want, and you know how much your spending because the conversation rate is 1:1, those other currencies are there to get along the way to help you in fact, not to make it harder because you can get them for free along with primogems which can also be obtained for free
Also all the UI/X design choices in Genshin are interesting to notice: when/where you access stores, no. of taps to get to the store, the layout of the menus, etc.
I could never fall for something like this because I’m poor
When I was watching this stream I realized this is the best marketing Monday ever, holds up, GOATED video
Genshin is genuinely one of my favorite games of recent times, but I'm sure fucking glad that I don't have a credit card, because I've looked at the price of everything and it's so goddamn expensive. There's like 2 skins in the game and I think they cost like $30 each (at least it's direct purchase, but that's like half a triple A title, just so my character can wear some summer clothes)
You can really tell that the devs love making this game and they're genuinely passionate about the world building, but it's definitely telling that the higher ups want to make A LOT of money.
I hope this game learns from all the criticism it's been getting recently, because I genuinely think it could be something great.
I have been bombarded with ads form this game and no matter how much I tell TH-cam I don't want to see them, lo and behold, there they are. I have never expressed any significant interest in anime, yet for some reason, I still get that game's annoying, high-pitched characters, shouting in my face more times than I would like when I want to watch a video.
Just play zelda breath of the wild or something lol
@@GlobeStan I cannot.
Edit: Also, aside from the stamina system. Based on what I see from watching yt, games are nothing alike. Doesn't fill the same space imo
@@princiedv I mean gliding is similar, and they have similar art styles. Outside of that though they aren't too similar.
@@adamnielson42 Genshin literally ripped off a lot of Zelda's mechanics, Enemies and locations. what the hell do you mean "they aren't similar"
Atrioc coming in clutch, can't wait to start the grindset and make stacks with twitch chat. I'll be sure to keep these tips in mind when I develop the new hit mobile game called genshin glizzy area mobile V2 Remasterd gambit dlc
Omg what a great thumbnail
Honestly, in hindsight, I think having my Genshin Impact account stolen is one of the best things to have happened to me. Account thief, if you're out there, you have truly saved me so much god dam time and money.
I got my account stolen while I was taking a 6 month break, managed to find my UID and got my account restored. The thief decked my team out with artifacts and even 6* my Barbara and got me a couple other characters. We love our thieves, folks.
@@Lionimia the thief didn't do that, he sold your account to some person who wanted a headstart and maybe thought he's buying an account from legit player who's quitting and selling his account. And that person decked your team and invested into your account until you took it back.
@@adrammelech6323 HAHA THATS CRAZY REALLY TELL ME MORE
@@Lionimia what? What are you sarcastic about? You think people steal other people's accounts to play? I mean it does happen but in like 5 percent of times. For the majority of time they steal your account to sell it to some sucker who want some specific characters or just a headstart.
This is probably my favorite marketing Monday, you knocked out of the ball park atrioc and quack!
I enjoyed this so much, thanks for it. I'll have to check out more of these Marketing Mondays, great stuff.
Knowing the predatory practices is important so you can spot them and be less tempted to fall for them. Great video 👍
I casually watched this video not knowing that it would succeed in making me kiss Genshin goodbye after more than two years of continuous playing. Well done.
which is a shame because he lied
Good 👏👏, well done!! I deleted it too
My brother has spent $8k on League Of Legends to get all the skins. He has no money. He doesn't understand that it's an endless cycle.
As a gensin spender, do not spend money on the game. Everytime i do, even though the money is expendable to me, i regret it. Also quite topical that this vid came out in the middle of genshin's biggest controversy to date has actually turned me aray from spending ... at least for the time being
Edit: Everyone actually concerned. Thank you, but I was being a bit dramatic. I never said how much I spend, but only like %10 at most of what I make goes into the games. While I know that money would be better spent elsewhere, Im not breaking my bank for it. I'm fine, I have a decent savings, and I have plenty In my checking that doesn't go to the game. While I appreciate it, put your energy towards real addicts. They need your support more than me.
congrats hope you stay clean man
@@obd3448 didn't last long, just spent money on honkai instead
@@growlingscarab7 2 hours clean is a start and I am proud of you
@@growlingscarab7 😔
@@obd3448 it's doesn't help that I pulled what I wanted
7:16
People in chat saying "it's not that complicated":
The point isn't that it's complicated or that it scams them with a math trick in the currency conversion or something.
The point is it serves as an abstraction of money that lowers someone's aversion to spending. This concept is shown to be true even if the game only uses one converted currency, but doing it more can further "detach" them from real money on the impulse level.
It's in a similar vein to how having someone's payment info "lowers the friction" to spending.
Most people's spending habits aren't based on grounded value assessments and are often based on some level of instinct/habit - especially for impulse purchases. So devs do lots of small stuff that preys on impulse buying and "lubing up" the development of feedback loops.
And obviously this doesn't work on everyone - but on a massive scale it absolutely has been demonstrated to make a difference.
but... it literally doesnt? it literally shows how much you spend by buying the packs. nothing is obfuscated, wtf are you on about.
the starglitter and stardust are NOT gacha currencies, fates are, and the math is ALWAYS visible - you pay money you see on screen for certain amount of crystals, those crystals are 1:1 with primogems, it takes 160 primos to buy either of the fates, and the starglitters and stardust are bonus currencies that you spend either on extra wishes (which you can get only a limited amount, for a discounted price, which increases how many times you can pull), materials that drop in dungeon domains and outer world enemies, coin currency for non-gacha stuff, or some pretty good 4* weapons that... most likely you dont even need. and you always can calculate it because IT LITERALLY STATES HOW MUCH MONEY YOU'VE SPENT ON A PACK, which is something people do, and there's even regional pricing, surprise.
unlike most gacha games, genshin is VERY straightforward with how its currency works and always shows what's the deal is. separate fates imo works to the benefit of the player, because you wont accidentally spend primogems on the wrong banner because it will stop you by asking "do you want to buy fates?" if you dont have specific fates ready on the banner page. accidents happen, but system is made to make those accidents less probable, and mhy can even return your primos if you've spent them accidentally on wrong fates... unless you've put them into the banner already.
and for the most part - most people dont even buy packs, such whales are less than a 1% of the whole playerbase. most of the paying customers do not directly buy currency packs - they buy subs, which are... relatively cheap. 5 and 11 bucks a month. for a game that doesnt even need characters you can pull to progress - thats mega cheap. gacha systems by themselves are predatory, sure, but genshin is the worst example of all these practices simply cuz of how game even works.
There has to be something wrong with my brain cause I play these kinds of games all the time but I never have the desire to spend money. If something can be "earned" in a game, whether its the item itself or the item to roll for it, I'll take the chance to earn it 100% of the time
Nothing wrong with your brain (based on this knowledge about you). Spending money on gatcha games is a lot like paying for recreational drugs, most people are fine, probably never try spending money on them (or spend very little) and won't get hooked. A large part of the revenue of these games comes from the whales but the whales are a minority of the population rarely higher than 10% of the total spenders which is closer to ~0.1% of players represent something like 50% of the in game spending.
If anything by not spending you have a cool sigma grindset.
here's the thing tho, these game try to trick you into paying by the making the game much more grindier, so even if you didn't spend money on it you spent a lot of time in it which is arguably worse. you would've been better off paying for a triple A/indie game that is better paced
@@danielli3288 I think it depends on whether the grind is fun or not. Some gacha games don't even really have a grind but are more skill-based like Fire Emblem Heroes and Pokemon Masters Ex, while games I have grinded for stuff like Phantasy Star Online 2 I have a ton of fun doing it. Honestly the only game that feels manipulative with wasting your time and taking your money I play is Final Fantasy 14 but that's a whole other type of beast lol
thats not how genshin operates tho - it pretty much doesnt have powercreep. are there characters that FEEL good playing? for sure, but they are not mandatory, 95% the game is fully playable with any character even with shoddiest gear - and the remaining 5% also can be done IF you're diligent enough also for free, just need a bit more grind from better gear, which is... free, aside from spending your time, that is. but that 5% you dont even need to enjoy the game at all, and the grind isnt as bad as many make it out, unless they're minmaxers... rip to them, but wow definitely was way more grindy than this game @@danielli3288
I love when you make these presentation style streams (then youtube videos). I can tell a lot of work is put into them and its cool hearing from a marking expert
This makes me thankful we still have great games like Elden Ring releasing for only $60, games can still be true works of art without being predatory
The problem is that Genshin is no less an art than Eden Ring.
@@cpazmatikus3752 it is way less of an art then Elden Ring 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
@@reno_reno_reno Ok
@@cpazmatikus3752 Genschiit is the same old Chinese web game bullschiit from the early 2000s. (It is quite nostalgic seeing the same sales tactics spun out of the control in the West.) I am early born zoomer from China and I know what kind of schiit Genschiit is.
My pathological aversion to spending any money ever is certainly coming in handy nowadays. I think I spend $5 on TF2 10 years ago and thats basically it.
6:36 cant spell tactic LUL. A certified Glizzy Hands classic
I don't really care about the gacha part as long as it's not p2w
What is wild is how the schmoes that are getting fleeced will be the ones that defend these awful practices the hardest.
I stop watching at 11:38 . I thought you are making sense but you don't actually play the game . You don't need multiple copies to level up you weapon . Multiple copies only unlock passive of the weapon but the damage is the same.
Great Video! I think that at some point in the next ~20 years, someone in government will get wind of this and will introduce some kind of sweeping regulation that changes the way that gacha games can monetize. Until then, I'm prepared to see more and more new games turn to this kind of monetization structure. It's crazy how much it can increase profitability of a game if you execute it well.
Fantastic video, definitely gonna make me sound smarter than I really am in casual conversations.
This was a great insight, your research was fantastic and I love how you've read Thinking Fast and Slow because that's such an interesting book
A classic Atrioc "Banned" Ewing moment.
Well he's not anymore
the worst part about all of this is that these games really prey on vulnerable people, much like regular gambling. If you have no friends, are having trouble finding a hobby, or in general lack enjoyment / fulfilment from other areas in your life - getting ensnared by the dopamine hamster money wheel of gatchas is so much more likely.
Pay2win games offer you practically guaranteed success, as long as you can pay for it. The worst part is, unlike a casino, it'll feel like your own effort being rewarded cause it's a customizable and interactable video game, full of story, personality and a sense of community. For people who have no sense of accomplishment OR belonging elsewhere, this is a truly fucked up allure.
Resonates with me personally well said
The good thing is that i found the exit and sold my account 😂
The only gacha i still playand only soly f2p is Destiny Child which is thankfully super generous unlike the greedy competition
Im really thankful that i turned my back on the predatory gachas
😎👌
Your approach to these topics make it fun/interesting to learn about. you have definitely helped people with this that wouldn't have changed otherwise.
This is the best marketing monday yet, and thats saying something because I've enjoyed almost all of them
One of the reason Mobile gaming becoming so fucking huge is probably because how easy it is to play game on mobile. Here in my country for example,buying pc or console is super expensive ps5 for example cost higher than the minimum wage. Some people literally went into debt to buy console. Handheld such as Nintendo switch is cheaper, however, because you will probably play it alone which means there's no friend that will be able to join to play mario kart for example because your friend don't own Nintendo switch. Some people who have the money will literally choose to buy gaming phone or iPhone instead of PC, console or Handheld console. This is because IPhone kinda give you some kind of superior social status for some reason, I legit saw my friend got rejected because he own an android phone, WTF. People will buy gaming phone because they can play game with friends which is probably impossible for them to do so on console unless there's crossplay for the game that they play which is probably not because most of them play mobile legends or pubg mobile.
My friends favourite game is Genshin Impact and he thinks I hate the game because I was critical of a certain fault in level design in the early parts of the game. Far from it, I grew up in Japan so I am extremely familiar with gacha. I've played FIFA UT, League of Legends and various mobile games. I understood that while these games dont scream at you to spend money, that you can absolutely play the game without spending a dime, that's not the point. It's the mindfuckery they do to trick you into spending. I won't play the game because I refuse to be tricked like that and it caused a rift between our friendship. He always says I don't have to pay, tells me about streamers that are playing the game completely free to play. But he doesn't understand that's not why I'm not playing. I just have little respect for a game that's entire monetisation is reliant on abusing people and their minds through psychology. It's predatory by design, not a by-product.
I used to play these games called bit heroes and endless frontier back in high school and I remember the first time I spent money on the games it was so hard and I felt so dumb. After that first purchase doe I was way more into the games. I never let it get out of hand and in total maybe only spent like $40 on both games, but I can totally see how deep people could go to be at the top. I can’t imagine how much the top guilds and players spend to stay at the top for sooo long.
This is a classic Brandon "Makes an interesting, entertaining, enjoyable, and informative video about a topic that I like and is relevant to me and millions of others" "Glizzy Hands" Ewing classic
As far as the death of skill in games I'll just add that u can have a skilled based gacha game succeed best example being bang dream, where having a better characters may increase your score but if u can't hit a full combo no amount of money is going to change that which keeps the game fun in an intrinsic way.
Yeah the only ones that is a skill based Gacha game is Arknights, Bang dream, Project Sekai and other rtyhm games
@Zold I think u misunderstood what I'm saying. you can have a skilled based gacha game be successful is my point. Also your elitism over being a "true gamer" is stupid as the existence of gacha games doesn't negate the existence of "real games" as they just target different kinds of players and can both exist in the same space and why gaming is nowhere near to being dead.
There's no reason to play those 'gacha' rhythm games if there are so many unique and great quality rhythm games out there.
Look at Arcaea, Lanota, Cytus, Phigros, Muse Dash, etc.
people usually dont play for uniqueness - they play because of characters, thats the main appeal (tho usually they play multiple and also the ones you've mentioned), as well as more content added later on, including sogs sung by fave va's. like, thats basically how rhythm idol games work, only majority of them are also mega predatory, especially in comparison to genshin. @@zomzombos8257
Probably one of the best videos I've seen in years. All memes aside, Atrioc is actually a fucking journalist. The structure, graphics and the final callback to the 70k dude are expert level infotainment. Chapeau! And to think I only found him because Ludwig memes on him... :D
a crap of a journalist, he obfuscated the gacha system in genshin way more than mhy itself did
This was wonderful.
Thank you. I think you've done something really good with this one. You should be proud.
Damn I think I’d have watched this video if Atrioc had a third eye opening on his forehead and his eyes were replaced by stars. But sadly, this is not the case so I will not be watching.
where is the curved arrow??????
Great video, thanks for highlighting the malicious ways Gacha / Mobile games try to make us spend money. I would personally absolutely fall under the "Achievers" (and Killers but to a lesser degree) category and really didn't expect to be the prime target of these companies or to be the most likely to become a whale, I'll definetely keep the "Pay2Progress is the enemy" mindset going forward. =)
Competitive
Collector
Casual
Explorer
Most gacha games actually have mad updates every 3-4 weeks like literal perpetual updates.
only genshin isnt pay to progress, lol
This video was basically my entire game design degree. Things like Bartles Taxonomy and the skinner boxing stuff should be studied a lot more though, very powerful stuff and almost works as a framework for designing a game.
You know, I really enjoy these. It's like a mix of your memelord character and simply a great video essay with a clear focus.
this is a true atrioc “banned for content” glizzy hands classic
Genshin is such a dichotomy between propably being one of the most well-made, beautiful gatcha games where you also get the most bang for your buck in terms of whatyou can do with characters, and having one of the most icky gatcha Systems out there!
Genshin's gacha system is unironically one of the best though just purely because it has a pity system unlike many other gacha games lol.
@@momoducc3911 eh, dbl's System is so much better. The Problem with genshin is that 1. the Rates are ass and 2. you need to Grind for accual weeks to get one f2p 10 pull, wheras you can comfortably get one f2p pull in legends every day for example.
The battle cats might still be worse but just because you get a 50/50 chance to get what you want every 90 pulls on one limited banner doesn't make it a good system. I'm pretty sure it's one of the worst just because how shitty it is to get enough primogems on your own
@@byrontheusurper6505 TBF the units in Genshin are absolutely incomparable to other units in gacha games. Genshin uses 3D models which has unique designs, voicelines, animations, and you can actually control them and basically walk around the world with them. Unlike most gacha games where the units are just a splash-art and a chibi version of the character.
@@momoducc3911 yeah I know, that's what I said in my original comment, the System is still dogshit tho
@Zold well clearly you never played it lol, be mad somewhere else
love your content and im learning
This was easily one of the best marketing mondays
I started playing genshin a month ago and haven't wanted to buy anything since I got INSANELY lucky on my rolls. I have 2 5 star characters in 11 and 17 rolls, and 2 weapons that used like 30 rolls total
New face for the thumbnails Poggies
the currencies and the meta argument is where Atrioc is fundementally wrong on.
I just realized how well the change of the video cover to a more clickbaity one worked, the old one I scrolled straight past couldn't even tell it was atrioc.
Good job making this thumbnail all by yourself
11:50 My god how I HOPE they actually start "changing the meta" or really change anything. One of my biggest gripes with the game is that they refuse to buff/nerf/patch characters and as a result you have 4 stars so overtuned they're basically 6 stars and dominate hard endgame content, and 5 stars that have clunky mechanics or low scaling and suck as a result. Right now their way of changing the meta is by having the end game "dungeons" reset and change periodically, but that's not a really good way of going about it IMO.
Also as a side note I would love to hear your opinion on their recent strategy for player malcontent "stick your head in the sand and pretend everything is fine"
They'll buff Electro any day now Copium
@@APlatinumGamer they did this update!
Love ur content man, love a combination of gaming and learning.
This is my favorite Atrioc video. Hope this one gets to 1M one day, it's important
Been playing a gacha game called Arknights for like 2 years now and it's amazing, it's incredibly generous to the point that I wouldn't even want to spend money on it. In fact I enjoyed the game so much that instead of paying into the game and supporting the devs that way I bought merch
A lot of gacha games are like that, games like genshin just give them a bad name. It's one of a few gacha games that market towards people who don't normally play gacha games, so they can add in absolutely horrendous practices without the naive new players noticing the problem.
Any games actually marketed towards gacha gamers tend to be a lot more generous.
Personally I play Princess Connect: ReDive for my gacha fix. They throw so much at you that I've never even had a desire to buy anything. Spent like 20 bucks once because I felt like they deserved it for all the fun I was getting out of it.
@@normalmightyis genshin really that predatory though playing for 3 years by now and never felt the need except the skins of course.
If you take the fact that each character is 180 pulls you don't need to spend I would recommend genshin and arknights to anyone coming new into the community
thats the thing - it isnt. these people are just huffing stupid juice. i am f2p myself - 0$ spent on genshin. the fact that people are so desperate to demonize genshin is hilarious@@geethaprem580
Thank you indie developers for existing.
That's precisely why I never save my credit card details on steam and force myself to enter it in manually every time. If I want to buy it, I better be willing to dig the card out of my pocket first. Also has the side benefit that my card details won't be saved on their servers so if they get hacked, my card is less likely to have been stolen.
Great idea
Either I’m an idiot or the glizzy maestro misspelt tactic at 5:08
Im ngl after Genshin's recent anniversary events I do not see myself playing this game much longer or any other gachas. Tbh im f2p and watching me makes me realize that im literally playing into someone's hand to try to convince me to spend money and all my hopes for enjoyable content is probably never coming. Man this is honestly very depressing to realize honestly as I really enjoyed the game but man gacha's are beyond stupid and honestly they're starting to get boring. Thank you for this little smack in the head that made me realize what im really feeding into.
Big A the goat with an incredibly informative and fun video at a point where the community is in absolute disgust at miHoYo.
I think a Marketing Monday on the disaster that has been the anniversary rewards would be a great video, especially if you touch on how you would have gone about it differently if you could have made the decisions.
Thanks for your contribution, love the content
Being a mix of all 4 of those types of player, I lean towards Explorer, Socializer, and Achiever more than Killer but I tend to spend almost no money for convenience, but advantages are my biggest thing. One game, Trove, I played it a lot and every month there was a “Dragon Deal” which gave you a golden dragon totem which unlocked a random dragon, which lead to giving me a bunch of Mastery Points and that was the biggest source of dopamine for me because that mustard yellow name was worth it all
This is still one of my favorite Big A videos
saw someone mention lacari in the chat lmfao cant believe he went from the most predatory MMO (black desert) to the most predatory games in general (mobile gachas)
This was a really well put together video! Informative, entertaining and a good insight into the minds of the developers behind these kinds of games. Really great content, keep it up.
Love all ur vids m8, just want to give u props for this one,as I found it particularly enjoyable !
"The entire playbook of diablo immortal"
Genshin pissed me off recently with it's anniversary rewards being shit
This couldn't have been posted at a worse time because damn... Genshin is kinda on fire in the worst way possible.
Really? I used to be a huge genshin fan but i haven't logged in since July. What's happening?
@@oliviaz.3309 so basically Genshin's anniversary just happened on the 28th and for genshin being one of the most successful games of the past year ish it was depressing to say the least, barely any rewards and radio silence from mihoyo so the community started quitting on mass and review bombing the game aggressively. It's currently at 2.8/5 on the play store for me and even lower in other places.
@@quillim5386 damn. One of my friends who still plays complained a ton about the rewards but i didn't know it had gotten that bad. That's actually insane that the rating dropped that much
@@quillim5386 classic Mihoyo, cant expect anything from them. Quit the game before raiden release (been playing since launch) cause its getting repetitive to login and do dailies/events. Feels good to actually not login daily. Thank god didnt spend any money since the first spend can snowball easily to being a dolphin/whale.
7:45 believe it or not they are and it’s been a staple video type for this game since launch. It’s entertaining as hell watching people drop life savings worth of money for a new weapon.
Also, I’m surprised Brandon Sarah Elf Boy didn’t mention the stamina system or the essentially gambling aspect of artifact grinding (ikea effect) but how there’s a limited amount of stamina you can use to grind the equipment and the only way to keep going when you run out of stamina is to pay money
Amazing video, great job. Very informative.
As a gacha player I'm proud to say I've never spent money on one