The stick spring resistance/grindiness/grittiness/whatever is definitely a tiny, often-ignored characteristic of the original stick and I’m glad you mentioned it
Thank you for being the only person who checked for skipped inputs, not just the shape when you run the stick around the gates. I've hated so many sticks that other people have recommended because of the skipped inputs.
One thing people forget about the N64 controller is that it has six face buttons. You can actually play six button fighting games really well with this equipment
Depends on how you hold the controller. Normal people don't hold the controller like they are playing an arcade cabinet. So 4 face buttons and two shoulder buttons is quicker to access that 6 face buttons for most people.
@@joes4194 I held it like a snes controller, left hand on the d-pad and right hand normal for N64, and I can do all six buttons just fine. I used to use it for playing Street fighter on ZSNES online
8BitDo stick all the way here. Comparing this to my controller with an original stick really showed me that 8BitDo cares a lot if their hall effect stick closely matches a real stick!
8bitdo is a weird company. I have bought many, many controllers from them. Their quality has never been consistent for the same product. Sometimes it'll have no problem. Other times it's actually game breaking. Their pro 2, I had issues with the mode switch. It was so sensitive, that it would change what mode it's in. Meaning disconnects happens constantly. And the stick isn't better. This review had no issues. But others says it has the same missing snapping angles issues as the XYAB stick Luckily their customer service is fantastic. You can get a free replacement or repair. Only thing you pay is shipping
I really hope someone continues the steel stick project again. That's the best solution that ever happened but it's way too rare now. I just want one lol
You could have tested Buck Bumble, as this game has a sensitivity check where over-sensitive 3D sticks cause the player character to look or steer the opposite direction if tilted all the way. If using a 3D stick with adequate sensitivity, the player character steers and looks at the correct direction if tilted to the max.
The only thing that worries me about the NSO N64 controller is that it uses the same wear prone potentiometer design that causes drift on so many controllers. If replacement modules can be easily found, then it's fine, if not, well... Then we're just postponing the same issues we already had.
there is a better test for n64 controllers and that is goldeneye/perfect dark/turok. those games are tuned for the quirks and spring resistance of the n64 analog stick when aiming. another detail you missed is that on the test program the hori stick is also profiled and the range is the same as the retrobit tribute. the reason why is so highly regarded is because the extra sensitivity is perfect for smash 64. otherwise, very informative video, i own a repairbox gc style stick and it's ok, it performs similar to your description of the 8bitdo stick, but i don't have a flashcart to run the test program and see the range.
I found a good way to test it was in ocarina of time and aim in first person. At least one of the gcn joysticks were unbearable for aiming but thats all i tested.
THANK YOU for talking about the spring resistance! It's so unique to the N64 stick. I used to call it "snap back" and it's hard to describe if you've never played on a 64 controller
"there's been alternatives on the market for the past several decades" true, still have my aftermarket nintendo 64 analog stick kit from 1974 all jokes aside i do have an atomic purple controller that needs a new stick and it is hard to find anything that matches the original stick's level of precision and accuracy. the 8bitdo analog stick seems to be the closest to the original stick and i'd be willing to save my precious atomic purple with that stick. i did kinda fix a loose stick on that controller but moving it up feels really stiff and i never bothered fixing it since.
I would call the spring resistance as "channels" in the X and Y directions and diagonals that create a path of least resistance on those axises, they were intended to physically fix the problem of the inaccuracy of sticks, the Wii nunchuck and wii classic controller also act the same way. Nowadays its done in software, using deadzones to create these channels where the stick input tries to stay on eight directions.
Interesting! Thanks for the info! That's honestly a more reasonable explanation my friend and I could muster. Truthfully we have very little real understanding of modern stick boxes so when trying to fathom an explanation of that unique feeling, that's the best we could do. What I find interesting is how Xbox, and PS1/PS2 sticks never that that feeling to them. Perhaps it was just Nintendo cheeping out on materials? Even so I'd wish third party N64/GCN controller manufacturers would attempt to replicate that feel better, as I find it to be an integral part of the playing experience in those games imho.
@@cyan.6399 Kinda. The Adventure ports have 2 levels of deadzone applied to them. The first deadzone, is for the each of the cardinal directions - up, down, left, right ie making it easier to perfectly move in those directions. The ports to gamecube and PC, however, have another layer of deadzone applied to them for some godawful reason.
Thank for the insight! I too feel the same way. You were the first to warm me about that company’s part at the beginning of the video. Had them saved for when I had the chance to order from the US.
For some reason the GCN stick when playing OOT never satisfied me on account of the aim problems in first person. You could never move or aim precisely and I never knew why.
Playing the ocarina mapped to the analogue stick is horrid too, especially when you’re doing the frog mini-game where speed and accuracy is key. Because of that the GC controller is pretty much a non-starter for N64 games for me.
Melee player here, i instantly knew what you meant by spring resistance, its subtle as hell especially on the joycons and im shocked by somebody finally mentioning it. None of my friends recognised what i was talking about Great details and great video! 👍
Let me bring my input to the topic: -I bought 4 sets of KitschBent replacements and to be honest they do required a lot of work and sanding make them feel/function properly. At the bottom of the octagonal hole there are 2 sidepost to "hold" the stick in place and since they also wear out, the stick still a little bit loose, but overall it is a great improvement. -I have a wireless retrofighters controller and it's great but it's sooo sensitive, so for games that requires fast and precise aiming (goldeneye, turok, perfect dark) it is an absolute pain in the ass.
My Retro-bit wired Tribute controller works extremely well, I love it. I have their hall effect stick too but I ended up switching it out for kitsch bent parts because it had terrible input lag.
I've done a fair bit of GC controller work for Melee, including stickbox modding, and it's truly alarming how limited of a resource good sticks are. Unless retro reproductions are still in style 20 years from now, we are absolutely screwed when it comes to long-term preservation of the original feel. N64 especially!
Great analysis! I've been a big fan of 8bitdo's controllers for maybe six years now, so I'm glad to see that their product is about what I'd expect from them.
Yeah I had that problem with mine(don't know if the NSO N64 controller has the same issues). I had to clean it because it was to the point that it stuck in the corners. That stick is also slightly annoying to put back together simply because it has to go in a very specific order.
@@Jayrod64 One good thing about them is that you can replace it just by unscrewing the controller and the stick module and then unplugging the stick. I've done that twice to my two worn down controllers... no soldering needed. I'd love to replace my drifting thumbsticks on my Xbox 360 controller but I'd have to solder them off
I can't remember the manufacturer, but I had 3/4 of these sticks installed in my controllers and had planned to get a 4th. then we were playing Mario Party 2 one day and the only person actually able to win some of the minigames was the guy with the OEM stick. the rest of us were physically unable to make some of the angles from our sticks that the game was asking for the sensitivity also made F-Zero X very much unplayable currently in the process of hunting down original modules to restore the controllers to what they were now
Nice to see someone give this topic the time it deserves. When the n64 online controller came out I saw people installing GC style sticks saying that they wouldn't ware away over time, completely ignorant of the gift they'd been given of having a new stick to begin with.
I understand what you mean by the “spring resistance Even if it isn’t a spring, there’s a certain tactile feeling you get from the GCN and 64 sticks. Almost like they’re subtly talking back to you. Even without banging the sticks against the gate like your playing smash, you can still feel it.
The way you described the joystick on the gamecube controller was very accurate. First time i used a gamecube controller at a friends house i thought the joystick was broken since it felt so weird compared to my playstation controllers at the time. Very unique feeling to it.
This video is great! I was excited when i saw 8bit do was making one, since its readly available in my country and ive had good results with their products in the past.
This is a really good video and very informative. I was just about to talk about the N64 Nintendo online controller, but you just waited to talk about to the ending and I probably want to get that for the N64 because it looks like I can try it with the really good option.
Definitely. A little trimming and a dob of silicone.I refurbished 4 of my OG controllers for around $20.00. Benchmarked with the same software as in this video. Close enough to a fresh stick for me.
I'm waiting for my 8bitdo kit to arrive. Ive been using a Bluetooth adapter with a DualShock 4 and it works fine for most games. However, as you mentioned, the original controller is perfect for N64 games, even though I'm not a fan of its design. The N64 is my favorite console and it's great to see people who appreciate it. Thanks for the video.
You did a great job on this - I had a Cart full of stuff that I’m cancelling now thanks to these thorough reviews. Great advice. I’ve never understood why people badmouth this controller. The range of motion on the stick, compared to say, the Dualshock(bleurgh), left finer input control a lot easier. Arguably PilotWings rivals SM64 for sensitive input control.❤
I never called it spring resistance, I just always considered it something like a gated analog stick of sorts to help you get to specific angles and the ps2 controller has a feeling similar to this but only on true left, right, up and down angles. Nintendo having 8 specific angels. It's almost like the internal sticks themselves were notched or gated back then. As for as retrobit controllers, if you have to get a tribute 64 controller, I'd suggest the wireless ones. I had the wired one and yeah your results are not at all an exception. As for the wireless controller I don't think it's perfect but I've played mario 64 and forgot about the controller and I played quake 2 on it and I was able to re-create the original default sensitivity after going into the game's settings and dialing the in-game sensitivity down. Most 3rd party controllers even after you do that are way too sensitive in quake 2 and you're overshooting everything, even turning a corner. To call most 3rd party controllers on this game unplayable would be an understatement, so it's my acid test on testing controllers and while this one still is a bit more sensitive than the original controller but it's within a range I can make it behave like the default controller and play so that's good for once. Lastly the newer reproduction controllers from nintendo feel snappier is because on the inside they are not the same, or at least not exactly the same especially on the rubber contacts. I've actually had the privilege of buying never used original printed L and R button label snes controller shells and rubber contacts from a company that back in the 90's would dissected the chips on the snes controller to make arcade sticks. This company would open them up, grab the PCB out of them, screw it back up as it was before, bag the shell, contacts and the buttons where they were, then throw it into a box so I've taken a few of these shells and used them to replace my worn out snes controllers and I've used a modkit from 8bitdo on one. Anyways my brother has a snes mini which is virtually the same as the snes classic controller and yeah, their new rubber membranes are based on newer designs than the classic ones. That's why they the older controllers feel like they have a bit of mush and get this, it's not just that. PCB thickness on the snes controller plays a factor also if the controller will feel mushy or not. I know the 8bitdo modkit snes controller that I have with the never used prior to me rubber contacts feels less mushy, it's actually my preferred controller for playing my snes with a bluetooth adapter and from what I've heard the super famicom controllers have slight differences also which makes them feel a touch more snappy than the snes controller. So yeah. That was a learning experience for myself a few years ago. Anyways thats why the newer controllers feel better. They are modern revisions on those old designs that nintendo has learned 30-40 years later. I might get the 8bitdo replacement stick with this information, it would be nice to have two good n64 controllers of different feelings for once.
the N64 and GameCube sticks having that feeling that brings you towards the corners is because the little plastic bits are worn down, it won't happen nearly as much with a new stick. This doesn't make a lot of sense to explain in words but if there's empty space between the inner stick and the plastic bits that hit the potentiometers, as you move the stick it clacks around in the empty space in the plastic and since one is vertical and the other is horizontal the resistance will increase in the cardinal directions. I hate that feeling tho my favorite sticks for the N64 are the ones on the cheap little cousin controllers like the sharkpad 64 and the superpad 64. those sticks have a ton of resistance but have never become loose or drifted even after all this time
Best video I saw on YT about the analog sticks. All other I watched it's so shallow, just "impressions", no real tests. I have this 8bitdo hall effect stick and I love it. It's the best one GCN style I ever bought it, and I bought it more than 5 times through the years. About the RalphNet adapter, as far as I know, he don't do it anymore, and even if that's untrue, the GCN controller still missing buttons, so it's not really a valid option for me. I have a Retro Fighter 64 controller too, but I don't like it too much.
I actually have some interesting info here. I bought one of the recently-stocked Linus-made B-grade steel bowls, and it's incredible. Smooth as butter. However, being that it's only a bowl, I had to pick a a controller to drop it into, and the one that i settled on just so happened to have been lubricated by its original owner, and I have good evidence to support that it was indeed lubed from day 1 of use. Anyway, I also disassembled another controller to swap the shells, and it had very similar, quite heavy wear on all of the buttons, their membranes, and the carbon pads for the membranes. Despite this, the sticks were night-and-day. The lubed stick felt nearly as good as a very-lightly-used unlubed stick, while the dry stick felt like utter crap. TL;DR I think that the new Nintendo sticks will last a very long time.
watched all until the end, im interested in speedrunning on n64 and a friend owns a steel stick and almost all WRs in mario party XD (spinning wins there)
I do actually have a near-mint N64 controller I found at my parent's house that I guess was just never used as it was the third of the 3 I owned, but I understand how valuable and volatile that is, so I am definitely looking for alternatives. Gotta save that one for special occasions to preserve it lol
According to a comment here, some people lubricated the inside of their N64 joysticks back then, and it apparently makes the N64 joysticks significantly more durable compared to the stock, dry sticks. The Switch Online N64 sticks come lubricated out of the box.
the stick resistance is 100% related to the analog stick cap itself, the 8bitdo stick is compatible with xbox one kontrol freeks, you put that on and the stick becomes very light on resistance, making playing Goldeneye, PD and Jet force gemini amazing.
11:50 It's because of the perfectly octagonal gate. Look at the diagonal values perfectly matchning the OG stick. Why can't more third-party alternatives get the gate right? It's obviously what's creating these issues to begin with. Kudos to XYAB/Repair-box for getting that important detail right.
Great video as aways! I wanna know if any of these NGC sticks works fine with FPS games. I have a NGC stick and cant play games like Turok or DukeNukem, games that need precise sticks. (Sadly I forgot what brand my stick is)
my old n64 controller stick work as good as when it was new … I've always cleaned the plastic pounder from the internal mechanics from the stick and kept it "oiled" and I don't have a floppy stick
I wasnt planning on it but I now have an n64 in my collection. Bought a used busted controller thinking id just swap out the stick. Wish I waited and watched this. Probably gonna buy those wireless plugs and use my xbone/series controllers. I also have a ps3, ps4, wiimote plus classic controller/snes, and switch pro controller as well.
It isn't spring resistance exactly that is part of it, it's the gate of the joystick's X and Y axis' stick box, and you feel that through the resistance, but it isnt exactly the spring itself. Going up and down is smooth because you use one axis, same with left to right, but inputting diagonals is rough because you use both axis' and the resistance stacks so your pushing against twice the resistance as when you use a cardinal direction. Modern analogs, have more seemless transition between the axis' that's why they produce a smooth circular movement
Hey thanks!! Honestly that's a way more rational explanation. I'm not too familiar with the machinations of modern stick boxes. Even so, I'd wish third party manufactures of N64/GCN replica controllers would put the effort to replicate that feel since I find it a very distinct part of the experience. Granted I haven't used a third party replica controller in years so I wouldn't know.
Thank you for this video! I got my first N64 not so long ago with a controller that has a very poor stick. I got a raphnet adapter and it's great, but I think I will buy an 8bitdo stick for that original contoller. Since I don't have any nostalgia for it I would not care if it's not like the original. Plus I would like it to be reliable for years, meybe my kids would like it :)
Is it fair to say that mechanically the xyab is the best of the three? I'm thinking about designing a replacement board for it that would take care of the accuracy issues.
i was super lucky to get several gamecube controller's at a thrift store for cheap a few year ago. and recetly i hacked a wii to play n64 games and its a GREAT way to play n64 games like Mariokart64.
I've been content with trying to rebuilt worn sticks with with those kisch bent parts but decided to try out the 8bitdo stick. I figured that $25 was fair to find out how much the stick sucked. I was shocked when I saw how accurate it was during gameplay and the controller test program. Not 100% perfect, but far better than anything before it. I might get more, but I'm in no rush.
Ok I’ve been trying for months to get that wireless dongle for the n64 to use my NSO N64 controller. It’s always sold out and I found one place with the transparent black version but it’s so expensive! Awesome video by the way.
I bought the original GameCube-style stick for the N64 many years ago, the original being the bad version whose range of motion was so poor that you couldn't actually do Smash attacks in Smash Bros. I eventually just bought an N64 controller from the GameStop website and basically won the jackpot by getting a nearly-perfect joystick. Interestingly enough, the game Blast Corps was literally unplayable with that OG GameCube-style stick. Other games worked fine aside from not being able to reach top speed, but in Blast Corps pushing right would make me go left, or up, or backwards, or in whatever direction the winds carried me. I guess that game just handles the values from the analog stick differently.
Mr.Welbig659: doesn’t grab Blue Coin My OCD: *TRIGGERED* Jokes aside tho mate, I’d deffo consider getting a GameCube style N64 stick OUTSIDE OF the XYAB-manufactured ones. Good video, mate! :D
i used to be a n64 controller hater, but in one of those guys who bought the wireless n64 controller to play the NSO 64 games; the stick is just so necessary for those games esp f zero x and sin and punishment
I would love to see the new Hyperkin hall effect stick edited (added) to this video or at least a followup video to add thoughts on it compared to whats been said in this video. This is the best and most complete comparison video I've seen so far however it is missing the Retrobit/8bitdo RB*-64 however that's a good one to skip. Its a potentiometer style stick with a lot of missing input. Its a horrible stick!!! I personally own 2 full 8bitdo kits with 2 Retrotime receivers and then I have 2 controllers that only have the 8bitdo sticks swapped into them. I love the 8bitdo sticks!!
Great video! Love this topic. I also think the 8BitDo is pretty good for a GC style stick. I had a most-updated Hyperkin style stick from Amazon that I tried too, and the gate shape was better like that XYAB one here in the video. But the overall stick handled worse and snapped to cardinal directions more & was less precise/more fidgety in SM64, just like that XYAB one. I didn't go with the Retrobit one after seeing some reviews & range numbers. I didn't want something more sensitive & GC style. Preferably slightly less sensitive than OEM if GC style, but with the correct gate shape. And to me the 8BitDo was closer to perfect than the Hyperkin I tried & Retrobit I didn't try. I have thousands & thousands of hours in SM64 Rom Hacks on PC via emulation, so I know a lot about SM64 & how it should feel, having played 'some' of the hardest hacks out there savestateless. Played a lot & speedran some. I don't know about actual N64 console for these, but for emulation/PC SM64, PS3 & PS2 controllers work very very well. On my actual console, I use OG controllers with OEM sticks or an OG one with an 8BitDo stick or these "MODESLAB" ones. I have some of the "chinese" modern-style N64 controllers off Amazon, and they work surprisingly well, especially for the price. They are simialr to the 8BitDo I think maybe slightly worse or more sensitive from memory, but I'd have to A-B compare. The MODESLAB(or miadore I guess) 2-prong ones off Amazon have no right being as good as they are when they look cheap/not great. Only one of the 6 I got for 2 N64's has some minor issues. Probably others could experience QC issues though. Might try one of those 2-packs if you haven't and see what you think. I got gray so the plug color matches the controller, the other colors bothered me 😂
Ultimately, I think most of us would agree. That no matter how janky the N64 controller was. It will always be the best way to play 64 games. While other controllers may be more ergonomic, with modern designs. The analog makes or breaks 64 games! 🎮
I want to play my n64 but i dont feel confortable with these replacement sticks, they are very unprecise compared to the original ones imo, the issue is the plastic gears in my original sticks are all worn, and if i want quality gear replacements of metal i cant find them, or not at reasonable prices. I might try the 8bitdo.
With the difference in tension on the diagonals on those sticks has me wondering if Nintendo used progressive springs on both axis for the GameCube and N64.
Super smash is my go to for testing sticks because 90% show they same extreme sensitivity problem. U can barely pick a character in the char select screen
Ive had a lot of experience with n64 sticks. The hyperkin captain is the only controller with a stick i enjoy. Puttinh gc sticks into a regular 3 prong in my experience isnt as good as the captain. Hyperkins consoles are mid tier but their controllers are incredible. Some are ugly but you forget about the looks when you are playing and realize just how good it is. Also just wanna throw out there, the hyperkin x91 is the best damn controller ive found in recent times. A freaking saturn 2d pad with modern xbox controller features. Best sticks youve ever used, great shoulder buttons. Dpad isnt the best but that isnt why i bought it.
as someone who has played mario 64 via emulation its strange seeing it pixelized to me and really makes me think of just how far technology really has come
I wonder if the issues with the XYAB stick could be because it's using the wrong joystick-assembly with less sensitive potentiometers? If so, Replacing the stick box itself could rectify it.
Great video. My main concern with the NSO Controller and Bluetooth adapter is latency; could you comment on that? I have a Retrobit Tribute 64 wireless, which uses a 2.4 GHz adapter. The latency on that is really minimal and only felt occasionally in really tight platforming/button presses or if I try to notice it. I would assume Bluetooth's latency would be much more noticeable.
I can't really provide real data on that. My input lag tolerance is pretty high compared to most people. But I can say that I didn't feel any perceptible lag with the NSO controller. Certainly compared to the Switch Online N64 app which I can feel the lag on that.
@@Mr.Welbig Thank you for your swift reply. That's great to hear; it certainly seems like a good option, and I'm glad you're enjoying it! I'm not surprised you feel lag in the Switch Online app. I'm not sure of the technical details, but I know the Switch has always had latency issues with Bluetooth across the board. It renders certain games unplayable for me, while I don't really notice it much on other modern consoles.
Please 🙏 review the stick of the wireless controller from retro-bit too. I like it a lot, but i don’t have any idea how it is compared to the other options you showed us here. And a review of the brawler 64 stick would also be nice. Nice video 👍
I’m trying to beat the Control level on 00 agent in Goldeneye and having trouble finding the right stick for my controller. I tried the “sharpshooter” first and it’s garbage, then I tried the 8bitdo Hall effect stick and it’s way too sensitive and makes aiming difficult. Are there any Hall effect sticks that would work better for Goldeneye?
Chapters (hopefully Mr.Wel puts this in his description later:
0:00 - Intro (duh)
5:01 - xyab Joystick Assembly
8:33 - 8BitDo Hall-Effect Stick
13:19 - BONUS! Retrobit Tribute
16:15 - ANOTHER BONUS! Official GameCube Controller + RaphNet Adapter
20:18 - RetroBit Hall-Effect Stick
21:31 - Nintendo Switch Online N64 Controller + RetroTime Blue Retro Bluetooth N64 Adapter
24:56 - Conclusion
thansk !!!
Retrobit Hall-Effect Stick starts at 11:03
Youre timestamp is from where he rankes all options which starts around 19:49
Can you let me know what the track at 8:11 is plz
@@3ure i can barely hear the song lol
@@3ure Kirby 64 - Ruins
th-cam.com/video/tuj1bQrBy74/w-d-xo.html
The stick spring resistance/grindiness/grittiness/whatever is definitely a tiny, often-ignored characteristic of the original stick and I’m glad you mentioned it
totally, try playing f zero x without it
It's one of the big reasons I don't like a lot of the drop in sticks
Thank you for being the only person who checked for skipped inputs, not just the shape when you run the stick around the gates. I've hated so many sticks that other people have recommended because of the skipped inputs.
One thing people forget about the N64 controller is that it has six face buttons. You can actually play six button fighting games really well with this equipment
Depends on how you hold the controller. Normal people don't hold the controller like they are playing an arcade cabinet. So 4 face buttons and two shoulder buttons is quicker to access that 6 face buttons for most people.
@@joes4194 I held it like a snes controller, left hand on the d-pad and right hand normal for N64, and I can do all six buttons just fine. I used to use it for playing Street fighter on ZSNES online
There's all of one fighting game of note on the 64 though
@@DourPrize emulators
8BitDo stick all the way here. Comparing this to my controller with an original stick really showed me that 8BitDo cares a lot if their hall effect stick closely matches a real stick!
If u have Buck bumble, does it work with that?
8bitdo is a weird company. I have bought many, many controllers from them. Their quality has never been consistent for the same product. Sometimes it'll have no problem. Other times it's actually game breaking. Their pro 2, I had issues with the mode switch. It was so sensitive, that it would change what mode it's in. Meaning disconnects happens constantly.
And the stick isn't better. This review had no issues. But others says it has the same missing snapping angles issues as the XYAB stick
Luckily their customer service is fantastic. You can get a free replacement or repair. Only thing you pay is shipping
I really hope someone continues the steel stick project again. That's the best solution that ever happened but it's way too rare now. I just want one lol
Linus actually has B-grade steel bowls in stock for the first time in a few years. I have no idea if/when he'll be making the sticks again though.
I just recently got a bowl...
KB sticks work great.
You could have tested Buck Bumble, as this game has a sensitivity check where over-sensitive 3D sticks cause the player character to look or steer the opposite direction if tilted all the way. If using a 3D stick with adequate sensitivity, the player character steers and looks at the correct direction if tilted to the max.
The only thing that worries me about the NSO N64 controller is that it uses the same wear prone potentiometer design that causes drift on so many controllers. If replacement modules can be easily found, then it's fine, if not, well... Then we're just postponing the same issues we already had.
there is a better test for n64 controllers and that is goldeneye/perfect dark/turok. those games are tuned for the quirks and spring resistance of the n64 analog stick when aiming.
another detail you missed is that on the test program the hori stick is also profiled and the range is the same as the retrobit tribute. the reason why is so highly regarded is because the extra sensitivity is perfect for smash 64.
otherwise, very informative video, i own a repairbox gc style stick and it's ok, it performs similar to your description of the 8bitdo stick, but i don't have a flashcart to run the test program and see the range.
I found a good way to test it was in ocarina of time and aim in first person. At least one of the gcn joysticks were unbearable for aiming but thats all i tested.
THANK YOU for talking about the spring resistance! It's so unique to the N64 stick. I used to call it "snap back" and it's hard to describe if you've never played on a 64 controller
"there's been alternatives on the market for the past several decades"
true, still have my aftermarket nintendo 64 analog stick kit from 1974
all jokes aside i do have an atomic purple controller that needs a new stick and it is hard to find anything that matches the original stick's level of precision and accuracy. the 8bitdo analog stick seems to be the closest to the original stick and i'd be willing to save my precious atomic purple with that stick. i did kinda fix a loose stick on that controller but moving it up feels really stiff and i never bothered fixing it since.
I would call the spring resistance as "channels" in the X and Y directions and diagonals that create a path of least resistance on those axises, they were intended to physically fix the problem of the inaccuracy of sticks, the Wii nunchuck and wii classic controller also act the same way. Nowadays its done in software, using deadzones to create these channels where the stick input tries to stay on eight directions.
Interesting! Thanks for the info! That's honestly a more reasonable explanation my friend and I could muster. Truthfully we have very little real understanding of modern stick boxes so when trying to fathom an explanation of that unique feeling, that's the best we could do. What I find interesting is how Xbox, and PS1/PS2 sticks never that that feeling to them. Perhaps it was just Nintendo cheeping out on materials?
Even so I'd wish third party N64/GCN controller manufacturers would attempt to replicate that feel better, as I find it to be an integral part of the playing experience in those games imho.
oh my god. is that why the Sonic Adventure ports have comically massive deadzones on PC??
@@cyan.6399 Kinda. The Adventure ports have 2 levels of deadzone applied to them. The first deadzone, is for the each of the cardinal directions - up, down, left, right ie making it easier to perfectly move in those directions. The ports to gamecube and PC, however, have another layer of deadzone applied to them for some godawful reason.
Thank for the insight! I too feel the same way. You were the first to warm me about that company’s part at the beginning of the video. Had them saved for when I had the chance to order from the US.
Man at this point I need you to review all N64 controllers and stick alternatives! Awesome video!
For some reason the GCN stick when playing OOT never satisfied me on account of the aim problems in first person. You could never move or aim precisely and I never knew why.
Playing the ocarina mapped to the analogue stick is horrid too, especially when you’re doing the frog mini-game where speed and accuracy is key. Because of that the GC controller is pretty much a non-starter for N64 games for me.
Melee player here, i instantly knew what you meant by spring resistance, its subtle as hell especially on the joycons and im shocked by somebody finally mentioning it. None of my friends recognised what i was talking about
Great details and great video! 👍
Let me bring my input to the topic:
-I bought 4 sets of KitschBent replacements and to be honest they do required a lot of work and sanding make them feel/function properly. At the bottom of the octagonal hole there are 2 sidepost to "hold" the stick in place and since they also wear out, the stick still a little bit loose, but overall it is a great improvement.
-I have a wireless retrofighters controller and it's great but it's sooo sensitive, so for games that requires fast and precise aiming (goldeneye, turok, perfect dark) it is an absolute pain in the ass.
My Retro-bit wired Tribute controller works extremely well, I love it. I have their hall effect stick too but I ended up switching it out for kitsch bent parts because it had terrible input lag.
I'm emotionally invested in this topic. Thanks for making a video on this ❤
Dude, the switch N64 controller is potentiometer based. It is NOT OEM.
I've done a fair bit of GC controller work for Melee, including stickbox modding, and it's truly alarming how limited of a resource good sticks are. Unless retro reproductions are still in style 20 years from now, we are absolutely screwed when it comes to long-term preservation of the original feel. N64 especially!
Great analysis! I've been a big fan of 8bitdo's controllers for maybe six years now, so I'm glad to see that their product is about what I'd expect from them.
N64 was the first console and controller I ever touched, this video brought back a lot of memories!
Glad to see N64 control sticks won’t all grind to dust
Yeah I had that problem with mine(don't know if the NSO N64 controller has the same issues). I had to clean it because it was to the point that it stuck in the corners. That stick is also slightly annoying to put back together simply because it has to go in a very specific order.
@@Jayrod64 One good thing about them is that you can replace it just by unscrewing the controller and the stick module and then unplugging the stick. I've done that twice to my two worn down controllers... no soldering needed. I'd love to replace my drifting thumbsticks on my Xbox 360 controller but I'd have to solder them off
@@Jayrod64 the nso controller uses modern potentiomer based sticks
I can't remember the manufacturer, but I had 3/4 of these sticks installed in my controllers and had planned to get a 4th. then we were playing Mario Party 2 one day and the only person actually able to win some of the minigames was the guy with the OEM stick. the rest of us were physically unable to make some of the angles from our sticks that the game was asking for
the sensitivity also made F-Zero X very much unplayable
currently in the process of hunting down original modules to restore the controllers to what they were now
I want teardowns of each of these devices to see what their actual parts look like
Nice to see someone give this topic the time it deserves. When the n64 online controller came out I saw people installing GC style sticks saying that they wouldn't ware away over time, completely ignorant of the gift they'd been given of having a new stick to begin with.
8BitDo's stick is also meant to be able to be used on the Switch, so there needs to be a click for the stick as that is an input type there
I understand what you mean by the “spring resistance
Even if it isn’t a spring, there’s a certain tactile feeling you get from the GCN and 64 sticks. Almost like they’re subtly talking back to you. Even without banging the sticks against the gate like your playing smash, you can still feel it.
The way you described the joystick on the gamecube controller was very accurate. First time i used a gamecube controller at a friends house i thought the joystick was broken since it felt so weird compared to my playstation controllers at the time. Very unique feeling to it.
Nerrel-quality nerdy video
This video is great! I was excited when i saw 8bit do was making one, since its readly available in my country and ive had good results with their products in the past.
EXCELLENT video. Informative and detailed, great narration.
I knew something felt off about the GameCube style n64 sticks. Thanks for the review!
This is a really good video and very informative. I was just about to talk about the N64 Nintendo online controller, but you just waited to talk about to the ending and I probably want to get that for the N64 because it looks like I can try it with the really good option.
Thanks for making this informative video. Will definitely grab the 8Bitdo stick for Christmas.
Thank you for this video! Well made and in depth
Kitsch-Bent with a dob of silicone grease is as good as a brand new controller IMO.
Definitely. A little trimming and a dob of silicone.I refurbished 4 of my OG controllers for around $20.00. Benchmarked with the same software as in this video. Close enough to a fresh stick for me.
I'm waiting for my 8bitdo kit to arrive. Ive been using a Bluetooth adapter with a DualShock 4 and it works fine for most games. However, as you mentioned, the original controller is perfect for N64 games, even though I'm not a fan of its design. The N64 is my favorite console and it's great to see people who appreciate it. Thanks for the video.
You did a great job on this - I had a Cart full of stuff that I’m cancelling now thanks to these thorough reviews. Great advice. I’ve never understood why people badmouth this controller. The range of motion on the stick, compared to say, the Dualshock(bleurgh), left finer input control a lot easier. Arguably PilotWings rivals SM64 for sensitive input control.❤
I never called it spring resistance, I just always considered it something like a gated analog stick of sorts to help you get to specific angles and the ps2 controller has a feeling similar to this but only on true left, right, up and down angles. Nintendo having 8 specific angels. It's almost like the internal sticks themselves were notched or gated back then.
As for as retrobit controllers, if you have to get a tribute 64 controller, I'd suggest the wireless ones. I had the wired one and yeah your results are not at all an exception. As for the wireless controller I don't think it's perfect but I've played mario 64 and forgot about the controller and I played quake 2 on it and I was able to re-create the original default sensitivity after going into the game's settings and dialing the in-game sensitivity down. Most 3rd party controllers even after you do that are way too sensitive in quake 2 and you're overshooting everything, even turning a corner. To call most 3rd party controllers on this game unplayable would be an understatement, so it's my acid test on testing controllers and while this one still is a bit more sensitive than the original controller but it's within a range I can make it behave like the default controller and play so that's good for once.
Lastly the newer reproduction controllers from nintendo feel snappier is because on the inside they are not the same, or at least not exactly the same especially on the rubber contacts. I've actually had the privilege of buying never used original printed L and R button label snes controller shells and rubber contacts from a company that back in the 90's would dissected the chips on the snes controller to make arcade sticks. This company would open them up, grab the PCB out of them, screw it back up as it was before, bag the shell, contacts and the buttons where they were, then throw it into a box so I've taken a few of these shells and used them to replace my worn out snes controllers and I've used a modkit from 8bitdo on one. Anyways my brother has a snes mini which is virtually the same as the snes classic controller and yeah, their new rubber membranes are based on newer designs than the classic ones. That's why they the older controllers feel like they have a bit of mush and get this, it's not just that. PCB thickness on the snes controller plays a factor also if the controller will feel mushy or not. I know the 8bitdo modkit snes controller that I have with the never used prior to me rubber contacts feels less mushy, it's actually my preferred controller for playing my snes with a bluetooth adapter and from what I've heard the super famicom controllers have slight differences also which makes them feel a touch more snappy than the snes controller. So yeah. That was a learning experience for myself a few years ago. Anyways thats why the newer controllers feel better. They are modern revisions on those old designs that nintendo has learned 30-40 years later.
I might get the 8bitdo replacement stick with this information, it would be nice to have two good n64 controllers of different feelings for once.
Nobody should buy the Retro-Bit Hall-Effect stick at the moment, mine just came in and they have INSANE input delay.
This. Smash attacks in Super Smash Bros are pretty much impossible to do because of the delay.
the N64 and GameCube sticks having that feeling that brings you towards the corners is because the little plastic bits are worn down, it won't happen nearly as much with a new stick. This doesn't make a lot of sense to explain in words but if there's empty space between the inner stick and the plastic bits that hit the potentiometers, as you move the stick it clacks around in the empty space in the plastic and since one is vertical and the other is horizontal the resistance will increase in the cardinal directions. I hate that feeling tho
my favorite sticks for the N64 are the ones on the cheap little cousin controllers like the sharkpad 64 and the superpad 64. those sticks have a ton of resistance but have never become loose or drifted even after all this time
Best video I saw on YT about the analog sticks. All other I watched it's so shallow, just "impressions", no real tests. I have this 8bitdo hall effect stick and I love it. It's the best one GCN style I ever bought it, and I bought it more than 5 times through the years. About the RalphNet adapter, as far as I know, he don't do it anymore, and even if that's untrue, the GCN controller still missing buttons, so it's not really a valid option for me. I have a Retro Fighter 64 controller too, but I don't like it too much.
I actually have some interesting info here. I bought one of the recently-stocked Linus-made B-grade steel bowls, and it's incredible. Smooth as butter. However, being that it's only a bowl, I had to pick a a controller to drop it into, and the one that i settled on just so happened to have been lubricated by its original owner, and I have good evidence to support that it was indeed lubed from day 1 of use. Anyway, I also disassembled another controller to swap the shells, and it had very similar, quite heavy wear on all of the buttons, their membranes, and the carbon pads for the membranes. Despite this, the sticks were night-and-day. The lubed stick felt nearly as good as a very-lightly-used unlubed stick, while the dry stick felt like utter crap.
TL;DR I think that the new Nintendo sticks will last a very long time.
15:50
The wireless tribute stick is pretty good. Not as good as an og stick or the 8bitdo stick, but it doesn't feel overly sensitive.
watched all until the end, im interested in speedrunning on n64 and a friend owns a steel stick and almost all WRs in mario party XD (spinning wins there)
I definitely need to get an adapter for my Switch Online N64 controller!
There is also always blue retro solutions
I do actually have a near-mint N64 controller I found at my parent's house that I guess was just never used as it was the third of the 3 I owned, but I understand how valuable and volatile that is, so I am definitely looking for alternatives. Gotta save that one for special occasions to preserve it lol
According to a comment here, some people lubricated the inside of their N64 joysticks back then, and it apparently makes the N64 joysticks significantly more durable compared to the stock, dry sticks. The Switch Online N64 sticks come lubricated out of the box.
the stick resistance is 100% related to the analog stick cap itself, the 8bitdo stick is compatible with xbox one kontrol freeks, you put that on and the stick becomes very light on resistance, making playing Goldeneye, PD and Jet force gemini amazing.
11:50 It's because of the perfectly octagonal gate. Look at the diagonal values perfectly matchning the OG stick. Why can't more third-party alternatives get the gate right? It's obviously what's creating these issues to begin with. Kudos to XYAB/Repair-box for getting that important detail right.
That xyab gate is NICE to see!!!
Great video as aways!
I wanna know if any of these NGC sticks works fine with FPS games.
I have a NGC stick and cant play games like Turok or DukeNukem, games that need precise sticks.
(Sadly I forgot what brand my stick is)
Thanks, this is the video I've needed to see!
I hope they start making these kinds of stick replacements for NSO n64 pads.
the real test would be firing up mario party and doing some good ol fashion Tug O war
then heading on over to crazy cutter.
my old n64 controller stick work as good as when it was new … I've always cleaned the plastic pounder from the internal mechanics from the stick and kept it "oiled" and I don't have a floppy stick
You went through all this and didn't brother to open up the NSO N64 controller to see what the difference is to the OG?!?!?!?!
Missed opportunity
I wasnt planning on it but I now have an n64 in my collection. Bought a used busted controller thinking id just swap out the stick. Wish I waited and watched this. Probably gonna buy those wireless plugs and use my xbone/series controllers. I also have a ps3, ps4, wiimote plus classic controller/snes, and switch pro controller as well.
It isn't spring resistance exactly that is part of it, it's the gate of the joystick's X and Y axis' stick box, and you feel that through the resistance, but it isnt exactly the spring itself. Going up and down is smooth because you use one axis, same with left to right, but inputting diagonals is rough because you use both axis' and the resistance stacks so your pushing against twice the resistance as when you use a cardinal direction. Modern analogs, have more seemless transition between the axis' that's why they produce a smooth circular movement
Hey thanks!! Honestly that's a way more rational explanation. I'm not too familiar with the machinations of modern stick boxes.
Even so, I'd wish third party manufactures of N64/GCN replica controllers would put the effort to replicate that feel since I find it a very distinct part of the experience. Granted I haven't used a third party replica controller in years so I wouldn't know.
Thank you for this video! I got my first N64 not so long ago with a controller that has a very poor stick. I got a raphnet adapter and it's great, but I think I will buy an 8bitdo stick for that original contoller. Since I don't have any nostalgia for it I would not care if it's not like the original. Plus I would like it to be reliable for years, meybe my kids would like it :)
Great video, I would have liked to see a game like golden eye tested too.
Is it fair to say that mechanically the xyab is the best of the three? I'm thinking about designing a replacement board for it that would take care of the accuracy issues.
i was super lucky to get several gamecube controller's at a thrift store for cheap a few year ago. and recetly i hacked a wii to play n64 games and its a GREAT way to play n64 games like Mariokart64.
I've been content with trying to rebuilt worn sticks with with those kisch bent parts but decided to try out the 8bitdo stick. I figured that $25 was fair to find out how much the stick sucked. I was shocked when I saw how accurate it was during gameplay and the controller test program. Not 100% perfect, but far better than anything before it. I might get more, but I'm in no rush.
Ok I’ve been trying for months to get that wireless dongle for the n64 to use my NSO N64 controller. It’s always sold out and I found one place with the transparent black version but it’s so expensive!
Awesome video by the way.
For me the ultimate test is on goldeneye pressing the R button and slowly move the aim to do accurate shots
Greatest N64 sticks review I've ever seen.
The Hori Mini Pad was better designed for playing N64 games than the original controller, and is a better designed controller in general.
I bought the original GameCube-style stick for the N64 many years ago, the original being the bad version whose range of motion was so poor that you couldn't actually do Smash attacks in Smash Bros. I eventually just bought an N64 controller from the GameStop website and basically won the jackpot by getting a nearly-perfect joystick.
Interestingly enough, the game Blast Corps was literally unplayable with that OG GameCube-style stick. Other games worked fine aside from not being able to reach top speed, but in Blast Corps pushing right would make me go left, or up, or backwards, or in whatever direction the winds carried me. I guess that game just handles the values from the analog stick differently.
Mr.Welbig659: doesn’t grab Blue Coin
My OCD: *TRIGGERED*
Jokes aside tho mate, I’d deffo consider getting a GameCube style N64 stick OUTSIDE OF the XYAB-manufactured ones. Good video, mate! :D
finally someone else who cares about this at much asi do
I see 8bitdo get bashed a lot, but they’re EASILY the best third party manufacturers and make great controllers
i love this video i’m gonna get the wireless N64 controller someday
i used to be a n64 controller hater, but in one of those guys who bought the wireless n64 controller to play the NSO 64 games; the stick is just so necessary for those games esp f zero x and sin and punishment
I would love to see the new Hyperkin hall effect stick edited (added) to this video or at least a followup video to add thoughts on it compared to whats been said in this video. This is the best and most complete comparison video I've seen so far however it is missing the Retrobit/8bitdo RB*-64 however that's a good one to skip. Its a potentiometer style stick with a lot of missing input. Its a horrible stick!!!
I personally own 2 full 8bitdo kits with 2 Retrotime receivers and then I have 2 controllers that only have the 8bitdo sticks swapped into them. I love the 8bitdo sticks!!
Imagine taking a drink everytime he says "Stick" 😅
Great video! Love this topic. I also think the 8BitDo is pretty good for a GC style stick. I had a most-updated Hyperkin style stick from Amazon that I tried too, and the gate shape was better like that XYAB one here in the video. But the overall stick handled worse and snapped to cardinal directions more & was less precise/more fidgety in SM64, just like that XYAB one. I didn't go with the Retrobit one after seeing some reviews & range numbers. I didn't want something more sensitive & GC style. Preferably slightly less sensitive than OEM if GC style, but with the correct gate shape. And to me the 8BitDo was closer to perfect than the Hyperkin I tried & Retrobit I didn't try.
I have thousands & thousands of hours in SM64 Rom Hacks on PC via emulation, so I know a lot about SM64 & how it should feel, having played 'some' of the hardest hacks out there savestateless. Played a lot & speedran some. I don't know about actual N64 console for these, but for emulation/PC SM64, PS3 & PS2 controllers work very very well. On my actual console, I use OG controllers with OEM sticks or an OG one with an 8BitDo stick or these "MODESLAB" ones.
I have some of the "chinese" modern-style N64 controllers off Amazon, and they work surprisingly well, especially for the price. They are simialr to the 8BitDo I think maybe slightly worse or more sensitive from memory, but I'd have to A-B compare. The MODESLAB(or miadore I guess) 2-prong ones off Amazon have no right being as good as they are when they look cheap/not great. Only one of the 6 I got for 2 N64's has some minor issues. Probably others could experience QC issues though. Might try one of those 2-packs if you haven't and see what you think. I got gray so the plug color matches the controller, the other colors bothered me 😂
the tribute is godlike for fzero x
dont know bout y'all but i use one of those gc to n64 converters to for my 64. plus 8bitdo is pretty good. lol well most of the time.
After Mario party came out I was buying 1 to 2 a month. My younger brothers and I would go though them so fast
Ultimately, I think most of us would agree. That no matter how janky the N64 controller was. It will always be the best way to play 64 games. While other controllers may be more ergonomic, with modern designs. The analog makes or breaks 64 games! 🎮
I want to play my n64 but i dont feel confortable with these replacement sticks, they are very unprecise compared to the original ones imo, the issue is the plastic gears in my original sticks are all worn, and if i want quality gear replacements of metal i cant find them, or not at reasonable prices. I might try the 8bitdo.
7:51 I thought that was to accommodate the Wii remote control option
With the difference in tension on the diagonals on those sticks has me wondering if Nintendo used progressive springs on both axis for the GameCube and N64.
Super smash is my go to for testing sticks because 90% show they same extreme sensitivity problem. U can barely pick a character in the char select screen
Ive had a lot of experience with n64 sticks. The hyperkin captain is the only controller with a stick i enjoy. Puttinh gc sticks into a regular 3 prong in my experience isnt as good as the captain. Hyperkins consoles are mid tier but their controllers are incredible. Some are ugly but you forget about the looks when you are playing and realize just how good it is.
Also just wanna throw out there, the hyperkin x91 is the best damn controller ive found in recent times. A freaking saturn 2d pad with modern xbox controller features. Best sticks youve ever used, great shoulder buttons. Dpad isnt the best but that isnt why i bought it.
Quality video man.
as someone who has played mario 64 via emulation its strange seeing it pixelized to me and really makes me think of just how far technology really has come
I love the n64 controller. The stick does suck but this controller design is like 3 different types in 1
Trying out a Hyperkin stick mod this weekend
Great video 👌
Killer awesome!! Keep em coming! 😅🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤
I wonder if the issues with the XYAB stick could be because it's using the wrong joystick-assembly with less sensitive potentiometers? If so, Replacing the stick box itself could rectify it.
Great video! How did you test the controllers like that? Is that a specific game or what? I'd love to do the same test on my controllers. Thanks!
Great video. My main concern with the NSO Controller and Bluetooth adapter is latency; could you comment on that? I have a Retrobit Tribute 64 wireless, which uses a 2.4 GHz adapter. The latency on that is really minimal and only felt occasionally in really tight platforming/button presses or if I try to notice it. I would assume Bluetooth's latency would be much more noticeable.
I can't really provide real data on that. My input lag tolerance is pretty high compared to most people. But I can say that I didn't feel any perceptible lag with the NSO controller. Certainly compared to the Switch Online N64 app which I can feel the lag on that.
@@Mr.Welbig Thank you for your swift reply. That's great to hear; it certainly seems like a good option, and I'm glad you're enjoying it!
I'm not surprised you feel lag in the Switch Online app. I'm not sure of the technical details, but I know the Switch has always had latency issues with Bluetooth across the board. It renders certain games unplayable for me, while I don't really notice it much on other modern consoles.
Please 🙏 review the stick of the wireless controller from retro-bit too. I like it a lot, but i don’t have any idea how it is compared to the other options you showed us here. And a review of the brawler 64 stick would also be nice. Nice video 👍
I’m trying to beat the Control level on 00 agent in Goldeneye and having trouble finding the right stick for my controller. I tried the “sharpshooter” first and it’s garbage, then I tried the 8bitdo Hall effect stick and it’s way too sensitive and makes aiming difficult. Are there any Hall effect sticks that would work better for Goldeneye?
Sick vid