Why I Don't Like Twilight Princess HD
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 พ.ค. 2024
- Probably going to be my most divisive video, but one I wanted to make anyway. Twilight Princess is a game I hold pretty dear to me. The HD version for Wii U is a fine enough version. But as a person who really cares about the minor details that most don't notice, I ultimately feel disappointed with it, and find it a lesser way to play the game. A completely minority opinion to have to be sure, but one I hold regardless.
Misc Links:
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Outro Song: Frogger (PS1) - Menu
That point about the music not transitioning when you change areas is spot-on!
Twilight Princess just got an HD Teture on everything, what did you expect?
A revolutionary Full Open World Game before Breath of the Wild was a thing?
@@Chris-gx1ei For the music transition from the GC version to still be there? I don't think that's asking for much
yes! i never consciously noticed it on my play-through but i always felt something was off. good to see this and many other odd feelings i had about the remake laid out concretely.
I think it’s wonderful though that when you transition between areas, you can continue singing the song to yourself and the game will catch up with you when it loads. It’s simple but so fun to me it’s like a mini game
Sounds like nonsense. It's not like you switch areas very often like in older Harvest Moon games or something
My biggest nit pick was the change in lighting in the twilight realm.
There was an intentional heavy use of bloom lighting in the twilight realm to give everything the blurred hazy look.
In order to make it "look HD" they removed this/heavily lessened effect.
Just watch a comparison of the scene where you first meet Zelda for how different it is visually.
The bloom is there but it's lacking that "hazy" look now which makes it look far worse imo. Less ethereal and dream like which is unfortunate.
On that topic - they took away the heat haze/distortion effect in Goron Mines! Look at a comparison and it's instantly noticeable
It's my absolute most minor nitpick that nobody else probably even notices lol, but I loved the atmosphere it created
@@Dittachu how'd I not notice that, what an awful update.
Yeah. I don’t understand why people say the HD version is the definitive version when it’s missing all of those special atmospheric effects from the GC/Wii versions.
@@Dittachuno they did not I saw it myself a few days ago when I was playing through the mines
I havent seen anyone else complain about the terrible camera input lag, but I'm glad someone finally mentioned it. Made me think I was crazy, how different it felt from the original.
Honestly at first going through this I thought it just some fun nitpicks of the preferable versions differences but you honestly make pretty valid points on all of these, especially the item wheel being remove... Anyways kudos too you.
I definitely respect the Item wheel a lot more now with hindsight, and after seeing nu-Zelda's abortive food/item menus.
The item wheel was super quick and really did make the item utilization feel nearly seamless. Mean, even as a Wii U GameDay enthusiast, looking down to change items has a full screen to screen seam with non-overlapping peripheral vision. It's fine for games that weren't seemless or had long menu loading screens, like Darksiders 2, or were built around it as it's own interface, like Xenoblade X or Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE, but it doesn't work as a solution in a remaster of a game that had a more streamlined and efficient solution already in place at the expense of removing that original interface.
The music loading screens change and horse changes also infuriated me during my playthroughs. I just couldn't adapt in a way that ever satisfied me and losing something that felt just right to me before stuck out like a sore thumb. The GameCube Zelda games really deserve the love that the N64 games got on the 3DS... well, maybe just Ocarina. Majora's Mask 3D was clearly a result of loathing and endless tweaking at little annoyances for far too long and not realizing what they broke in making the changes they made, like how Deku Link flat out doesn't work in some spots in the swamps after his spin acceleration got nerfed. Maybe they need love from not Aonuma, cause he seems to have completely fallen out of love with pre-BotW Zelda
I love how he's non bias & just informative
@typhoonlava6488 I think my bro complained about the item wheel being removed and he didn't even play the game haha
Aouma is kinda like Pontaff during the Sonic Meta Era. Both of them want bad writing to the newer games which ruins the storyline, and both of them have made plot holes for the timeline for each respective game series.
In regard to the graphics it was stated by Emily Mcgregor, an environmental artist who worked on the HD version of the game, that the team was really frustrated at not being able to update things like character models because slapping high-res textures on a blocky character model would just look weird since it's an old game. Tantalus was very aware of the issue that it would create, but Nintendo just told the team to update the textures of the game and not much else, which kinda sucks in all honesty. Makes one wonder what Tantalus could've done with more freedom. Here's a link of her talking about it if anyone is interested.
th-cam.com/video/uALpWMM89kw/w-d-xo.html
That's very interesting. With newer GCN rereleases having far more updated assets like Prime Remastered and Thousand Year Door, I hope Nintendo will allow this game to have a more ambitious visual overhaul.
I can't blame you for not bringing this up since you didn't play the Wii version that much, but you were able to move while aiming, something that would be implemented in Skyward Sword and Wind Waker HD before Twilight Princess got its HD remaster, but the feature is completely gone in TPHD!
This might seem like a nitpick, but one of my favorite parts of the Wii version was the Bulblin Camp in Gerudo Desert and the Hidden Village, because I would switch into third person shooting mode for the entire segment.
I always enjoyed that and similarly a unique feature to TP among the 3D games is the ability to swing your sword around while running around. It was a great grass-cutting method.
That really annoyed me not being able to move while aiming.
Wait really? I completely forgotten about that. Why Nintendo?
Could you in the GameCube version?
I really missed the beautiful HUD from Gamecube version. As well agree wholeheartedly with the visuals in general on GC felt so much more organic. I will never sell my GameCube version, even though it’s worth nearly 100 quid!
Same for me, but for the Wii!
Whatever that amounts to in $.
I especially agree with you on the textures. I swear in some instances instead of redrawing the assets, they just cheap out and use photos for the textures, the biggest example is the floor in Hyrule town at 13:43
They also removed the cool Roman-style aesthetics of some of the dungeon marble murals and castle statues, replacing them with the stupid bird-people from wind waker or just random characters which muddy up the lore (not that Nintendo even pretends to give a shit about the actual canon these days)...
I agree with you but Nintendo never cared about the canon to begin with @@nillynush4899
the game did sadly use photos and ai upscaled images. Not like esergan or rife upscaling since, those methoids give much cleaner results. What Nintendo did was stretch and smooth the textures which is why the textures just look sharp while some textures look ai redrawn which looks really bad on character models.
If the game was fully remastered wolf link would have fur details which non of the animals do. An the lighting textures weren't improved at all. So for $70 this hd port isnt hd. It was a very lazy job. When a modded wii upscaled to 720p looks cleaner than the wii ewww hd version. Something really went wrong. If you compair the art to fan 4k texture packs.
Yeah, the changes to make references to other games is some of the worst type of fanservice. I fucking hate the cheap fan service moves they've been making post Skyward Sword. I legit think the response to that game and Aonuma trying so hard to out gimmick his prior works with every Zelda killed something in him. I mean, Majora's Mask 3D has so many changes that show an absolute disgust with their own prior work. I genuinely think something broke in Aonuma between Skyward Sword and the release of Majora's Mask 3D. One pulled together the lore that they had been trying to pull together since the guide book for A Link to the Past, the other had such hatred for its own original release it basically broke multiple fan favorite mechanics and battles for the sake of streamlining the game. Then BotW mixed up a bunch of lore and gave out references to old games with amiibo and now Tears has all but abandoned even respecting what lore there was in BotW. It really feels like a franchise being made by someone who hates it these days and just wants to squeeze it for sales and bastardize it as a platform for his technical curiosities he wants to sell as game mechanics, like Ultrahand.
Textures are mostly made from photos 💀
funny that this video came out the day i decided to play twilight princess for the first time LMAO
It’s amazing
He's trying to gaslight you into thinking you shouldn't play it after all lol
Sounds like you're going to be having a good day!
Oh man I only started playing a week or so ago, it's so good, I can't believe I let people's lukewarm attitude towards it prevent me from playing the closest thing to an Ocarina of Time reboot all this time
@@portalfreak7628 Who said they'll be playing the Wii U version?
these honestly aren't nitpicks, they're pretty legitimate reasons
Twilight Princess is my favorite game of all time as well, love the story, music and pretty much everything in the game
I was hoping for Nintendo to port this game to Switch, but at this point I think they might just fully remake it for their next console.
That would be a dream come true. Imagine if they did that and then reused these newer more realistic assets for a new title, too.
It would be a dream, which is why Nintendo will probably port TPHD to Switch 2 being as lazy as possible and STILL not orchestrating TP's killer OST.
As much as i'm growing tired of remakes, Twlight Princess is one that actually needs it because its graphics have aged pretty poorly and are clearly a product of its time. And this is coming from someone that loves the original.
A remake with much needed new graphics, increased difficulty (including making bosses more aggressive and have more attacks), quality of life improvements and new content like more meaningful sidequests would be great.
@@okagron I think the remake fatigue is from just how half assed most remakes are nowadays. If they're done right, I'll eat up improved ways of playing games I replay all the time, anyways. Like he alluded to, the Metroid Prime remake was unbelievably good, to the point that I have genuinely no reason to go back and play the original, now, imo. If all remakes strove for that sort of polish, I don't think that fatigue would be a thing. Because I agree, a lot of these remakes being worse versions of their originals isn't doing anyone any favors in the long run.
15:41 How does Nintendo create an HD remaster, but not add texture rotating. 2016 and still using a fixed grid for textures, I can't help but be reminded of the original standard definition version when I see this.
Nintendo used an Australian developer named Tantalus Media for the remasters of TP HD and SS for the Switch. If they did it in-house, it probably would have been miles better.
@@serkany5905Most likely not though.
@@schnek8927 Wind Waker HD was developed by Nintendo. If Nintendo took Twilight Princess in-house too, there is doubts it would have been a better game.
@@serkany5905 I mean SS HD was a much better remaster (in my opinion).
At least they didn’t change the textures unlike TP HD.
The music cutting out (as well as the other big TP music issue, which is the interrupting enemy music during a sequence intended to be emotional) is not a minor issue, and I am puzzled why you think it could be considered a "nitpick" by others.
Music has always been one of the pillars of the Zelda series.
I completely feel you on the Audio transition issue. I’ve only ever played the GameCube version, but I know that would annoy me to hell on Wii U. It’s such a minor thing but getting immersed in the world and music is such a large part of Zelda, so that alone means I’ll stick with GameCube personally. Plus the lack of item wheel is wack. I feel like they made the item grid knowing its worse to make the gamepad seem more useful.
100% agreed looks like I'll be sticking to the GameCube version
Same for me, but for the Wii since my Wii cant play Gamecube games.@@HollowRick
Your point about the graphics is so accurate. When I first encountered Ilia in the HD version I was taken aback due to how strange Ilia looked. Very well done video.
I was so disappointed by this remaster that I didn't buy it at all, despite me loving TP. Watching your video, turns out that was the correct decision. Jesus, the old game truly looks better in my eyes because of the exact reasons you stated. It looks more cohesive. They should have upgraded the lighting and assets, but they didn't. I also didn't know about the music-fadeout which left me shocked. Here's hope they will remake it and give it the attention it deserves on Switch 2.
Yes, just don't let Aonuma be involved in the remake. He seems to really loathe the old format of the franchise these days, and if the original HD version and Majora's Mask 3D are anything to go by, he'd only lead the teams into correcting more non-issues and possibly even break parts of the game with changes he'd want to make. Nintendo needs to make a new Zelda team that actually has leadership that understands the appeal of traditional Zelda and doesn't just see it as "nostalgia" as Aonuma put it
@@Chronoflation Agreed. I never played these games growing up, but even without so called "nostalgia" they're still all unique and amazing. I don't think I can really trust Aonuma with these things anymore after he said that.
@@Chronoflation Having Yoshiaki Koizumi as Zelda's producer would be the perfect scenario IMO.
@@lucasrinaldi9909 100%. Older players all prefer him over Aonuma these days and I can't blame them. The use of cell shading graphics and the open world format need to take a back seat in the next installment. Fingers crossed Koizumi isn't restricted to just Mario forever and ever.
I do not agree with any of you guys in that the BotW format needs to “take a back seat”. Yes I would love to see a proper TP remake made in the way that TP should be made (being in the older format) but that doesnt make the new Zelda format bad. I love the BotW/TotK format and I cannot wait for them to do a third installment. Personally I just wish that they would make Zelda games in whichever format would work best for that specific game.
Great video, especially the point about HD textures and original lower poly-assets. I appreciate the hard work people in for instance the emulation scene put into creating HD textures, but as you point out, there's only so much you can do before it clashes with the art style, requiring new models.
GC version was also the way I played it first. During my initial playthrough I was disappointed, as it felt much more linear compared to Wind Waker and my personal favorite Majora's Mask. I had hoped it would build more upon what these two titles did, specifically in terms of side quests, but as time has gone by I've come to appreciate Twilight Princess for it's own merits.
I haven't played the HD release, but it seems as if the graphics just work better when played on hardware it was initially designed for. HD re-releases are trickier than one would expect, which you allude to.
Strange changes made to the controls and item wheel. I'm guessing having something as convenient as the latter would make the touch screen unnecessary, especially if you also have a button on the Pro Controller that can transform you into Wolf Link instantly. Can't imagine the higher-ups at Nintendo being thrilled if they couldn't shoe-horn the selling point of the console into this version. It's as you point out, it doesn't really solve an issue, other than maybe giving the marketing team something to work with.
If only the GC version didn't have that rupee issue... Anyways, sorry about the rant lmao, great video!
To me, they did a bomb ass job on the Wind Waker HD ! However when Wii U sales didn’t meet expectations I think they just put in the minimum effort for the HD remake on Twilight Princess. I owned both GCN and Wii versions beat both versions and I can say the GameCube version was my favorite as well. I’ve been begging for these two on Switch since they were rumored back in 2018.
The HD remaster team actually updated the mipmaps to better lay out the new textures, which is an effort that very few HD remasters actually go for. I honestly like HD texture updates for PS2-like graphics, I think it is the best way to represent the game on LCD screens.
Always disliked the fact that they tied Hero Mode to Mirror Mode. On the opposite spectrum, I don't like mirror mode but I'd to be able to enjoy a more difficult mode without being forced to have the world mirrored.
Right hand supremecy. Cope.
As a wii original Player i can't play anything else than mirrot mode
I’m glad you brought up the camera thing. I feel like no one notices that. But also the loading screen music thing (it sounds more like the volume goes really quiet, you can barely still hear it, but it’s still bad). And I like that you brought up the detail with the item wheel coming from the top of the screen when you push down on the d pad, and comes from the bottom when you push up, etc. I love little details like that
Something else I’ve noticed since playing the Wii version again, is how you can move Link himself while aiming while holding Z, since you aim with the Wii remote (which you can disable, the pointer controls, in the options menu. It acts more like the GameCube version but with third person that way). In TP HD, they made it where you can’t move Link separately from your aiming, like how it is in Wind Waker HD
I just hope that when they port this game to Switch or whatever the next console is, that they fix these issues and the ones you talked about in this video. I would really hate to see this game forever have these issues, especially stuff related to gameplay like the camera. As you said, it deserves better
The thing that I didn't like was that you couldn't move and aim at the same time, and that makes the second dungeon right after you get the bow more difficult because you have to move out of cover when the Bulblins are shooting at you, stop, aim and then shoot instead of moving out of cover with your arrow drawn. Since you could do that in Wind Waker HD and the Wii version of Twilight Princess, I couldn't see the reason why you couldn't do that in Twilight Princess HD. I posted about it on Miiverse and I got the answer "Because it's based on the Gamecube version". That doesn't mean that it can't be improved upon, like Wind Waker HD or to take the best features from both versions.
I also liked the gyro aiming in Wind Waker HD, it was really convenient when you didn't have the arrows or whatever thing you wanted to aim on the R button and needed to use you right thumb to press the button, so you couldn't use the right thumbstick at the same time. The gyro aiming in Twilight Princess HD was not as precise.
One thing you can do to slightly mitigate this is hold ZL when aiming. It lets you move Link, but you can’t really aim. But it makes it easy to back pedal or sidestep a little and quickly go back into your aiming item (bow). Not ideal, but it can help. I do hope that when/if they port this game to switch, that they fix this and make it like Wind Waker HD
I’m glad you articulated your thoughts on why the Hi-Rez updated textures don’t look good I couldn’t quite put my finger on it before but you made sense with your thoughts
The original game was played on a 480i display and like you said the softness allowed your eyes to fill in the detail but when you sharpen up your resolution and slap hi-res textures on it, it breaks the illusion
Particularly when it comes to graphics, I also think it's important to take into consideration the types of televisions being used at the time of the GameCube and Wii versions of the game: CRT TVs. LCD Screens were relatively new at the time, so the game and its textures were made with CRTs in mind. CRTs tend to do a better job blending textures and even polygons to look more realistic (yet blurry), than the more crisp LCD screens that make everything look blockier.
EDIT: Paused the video to comment before 15:53, so I didn't see that you commented on CRTs until after I posted the comment lol
Dude, I'm so glad you talked about the visuals. I can't STAND that any time I look up anything about Twilight Princess these days its all these god-awful looking graphics. The entire original two versions have this soft amber glow that makes everything literally look like its taking place at Twilight. The HD version just totally takes this away. Sure the glow was used to hide lower resolution textures, but who cares? It fit the style and focus of the game so well! I'm a story guy first and visual guy second, so seeing how bad these looked to me is why I literally never even considered picking this version up. I don't understand why everything has to be HD. It looked good on Wind Waker because it made things feel more tangible. It did the opposite here.
I agree with a lot of these points, but the rupee thing is confusing to me. You need to be constantly spending your rupees at Malo’s for the bridge and castle town storefront. In my current playthrough I have just purchased magic armor without ever losing a single rupee to the change to opening chests. Basically, between every dungeon you need to be getting rid of as many rupees as possible for the very reason you explained.
In the end I believe it is a good change. I really don’t want to be warping all the way to Arbiter’s grounds to travel 8 rooms deep just to open a 20 rupee chest.
It bugs me how they blocked off an entire section of Ordon Village in the HD version with no way to access it ever again. I get that it was to make the tutorial less confusing, but they could've at least left a hole in the bottom of the gate so you have the option to visit it later in the playthrough
They did that?
What section did they block off?
@@darkblades1201 The place where you fly the eagle to retrieve the cradle from the monkey. In the original version, you were able to swim over there and it was a good fishing spot
@@HalfDuck huh!
It's criminal that they didn't port over the Wii motion controls. That was my main expectation for the HD version was getting to relive swinging around my Wii mote
Agreed.
Twilight Princess the most polished Zelda BECAUSE it's an Ocarina retread. And honestly I don't mind because it's such a content rich and high quality game. It isn't my favorite zelda but I think it's probably the best, having skippable text and cutscenes helps a lot too. That audio fadeout is crazy though, the loading in the original never really felt like loading to me because of the music, it felt more like an area transition, which I guess is the same thing but perception counts for a lot. The silence of hd just makes it feel like "Loading..." And those new textures definitely look way too high res, like minecraft with ray traced water. HD is way too oversaturated as well, and they put ugly gradients on things like the hylian shield and links belts. I think TP upscaled to 1080p in Dolphin looks way better than HD. Overall I think TP HD is just like Wind Waker HD: some good quality of life changes, some weird changes that make the game worse, a higher resolution and less compressed textures, but overall worse visuals.
Wind Waker HD looks lightyears better than the original with the flat lighting and cell shading.
The original gamecube is a very ugly looking game at times but the massive lighting upgrade saved it.
@@saricubra2867 well If you are talking about the resolution and textures then yeah its worse, but If you mean that the original Cell shading didn't contribute to the quality of the visuals i have to disagree because it were meant to look like a cartoon, so the flat colors and lack of detailed shadows appeal to make It look like It is a complete 2D game like how cartoons are 2D and the Wii U shading breaks that original intention in many, many cases like for example near the torches there is no Cell shading Just normal lighting make him obviously a 3d looking model and link's hair having another source of light from below makes his hair seem more like a 3d model in contrast with the rest of his body
@@gabrielmendes9927 No old 2D cartoon that i ever watched in my life has such washed out colors like the Gamecube original of Wind Waker.
@@gabrielmendes9927 "near the torches there's no cell shading"
Makes sense, but they had to use more inspiration on western anime and comic books.
I've been debating whether to replay the GameCube or Wii U version lately and you sold me on GCN for sure. I already had a couple of nitpicky reasons to lean that way but now that you've pointed all that out yeah I gotta go for the original. Kinda forgot the Wii U version ditched the item wheel
The only issue I ever had with the HD version was the fact that hero mode's orientation was the same as the Wii version, the one I grew up with, I was really looking forward to playing the game with a reversed screen so I can get lost like I did in Ocarina of Time 3D's Master Quest mode, only to find it was the same as the Wii version because that's technically the reversed version anyway? but that makes no sense given that most people played the Wii version... I just wish they gave us an option for what orientation we wanted, I really wanted my left-handed Link in the Gamecube orientation. :/
Now that I've played the heck out of those games though, I've learned that the orientation doesn't change much, your mind adapts and you stop getting lost pretty quick... but yeah, other than that I never noticed any differences really, kinda surprising how many you've noticed and pointed out that I was never aware of. :V
Edit: Oh yeah, I also appreciated the chests remaining open when you obtain more rupees, cause I'd rather have the chest permanently opened than gain a few extra rupees. :P
Honestly I feel like I haven’t missed out much. I originally regretted not picking up TPHD before the WiiU eshop closed, but after watching this video, I think I’ll be pretty happy with the Wii version I have.
12:17 you can still hear the music start to change before the music gets cut off, the tambourine is barely audible but it's still there
TPHD honestly looks more like a fanmade texture pack than an official remaster. There's a weird clash between some of the textures where some are just straight up photo textures and others were hand painted. This applied to the original textures too, but since all the textures had to be scaled down to a low resolution, there wasn't as much of a contrast between them. Speaking of contrast, many of these textures are incredibly sharp and high-contrast which is the opposite of how the original textures were designed. People often refer to Twilight Princess's art style as "realism" but I disagree with that. It definitely uses a more muted color pallete than OoT and SS, but it feels like the game's art was designed to evoke more of a dark, graphic novel type look. Although many of the textures were made with photos, they've been heavily manipulated and have had their contrast reduced, allowing everything to blend together nice and softly.
On a side note, the weird thing about the models is that there were a small handful of models that were altered to have a higher polygon count, but they were in places that were so inconsequential that you wouldn't even notice them, such as the pillars in City in the Sky being slightly rounder and less jagged.
I never played TPHD, so I can't speak on the gameplay changes but man, the visuals are honestly such a mess and were a huge disappointment to me. I also really dislike the visual changes made with WWHD. As a 3D artist myself, art design and direction are something I'm very passionate about, and visual consistency is something I'm a huge stickler about. Nintendo really butchered the art styles of both games and it's a shame that these remasters are the way people see these games' visuals now.
Thats how the original was made too :P
there's actually a fanmade texture pack that does TPHD but better.
I don't know if someone already pointed this out, but the intro demo after the title screen was completely cut out on the Wii U version :/
Someone else in the comments mentioned the bloom lightning removal which is another major issue, but I think another thing lost in translation to “HD” was the red-shifted color palette. The HD version looks so crisp and blue - not at all the gorgeous, smoky orange that clouds everything in the game. Not to mention that they had to rebuild every character model from the ground up, so Link’s face looks just a little bit different - different enough to upset me a little bit. It also frustrates me that they missed a major opportunity to deal with some quality of life issues in the original game, like the Midna’s Lament music being interrupted by random enemy music. That whole section should be just Midna’s Lament; no funny business, no, “oh no, a keese! let’s focus on their battle theme!” I don’t mind the random enemy music elsewhere (I know it bothers some people), but even just removing it in that one moment would make the scene so much more powerful. I will beat the HD version at some point, but my favorite way to experience this game will always be on the Wii.
I beat the game on Cemu emulator like the next day this video dropped.
My biggest personal strife with HD version was the realisation how bad the lighting was. At first I thought that maybe my emulation was wrong, but no - it was working as intended.
The image is too bright, it's so bright that it crushes the colours all over the game. Together with some hard bloom effect it felt like I was constantly looking at the sun. Game had innovative lantern mechanics which forced players to use it to light up dark caves and put fire in torches. But in HD version its so bright that even the darkest areas were perfectly well lit, making the lantern completly useless. It took me several hours of real time to fiddle the settings like colour post-processing and render exposure inside the emulation to make game look how it should be looking in the first place - normal.
And to add insult to the injury - Wind Waker HD had harsh bloom nobody liked and complained about but nobody fixed that. But the Cascaded Shadow Mapping, which made image really pop (despite the fact that it was obviously added in very last moment and very poorly implemented in indoor areas) wasn't carried over for some reason.
Pixel lighting through shaders which Wind Waker HD had? Gone as well - we are back to PS1 era polygonal gurad shading mode. Also they lost SSAO - even if it didn't really fit with Wind Waker aesthetics it still would give Twilight Princess image the extra depth it needed.
It's like they took the game, slapped some HD textures in and called it a day, despite the obvious fact that they could add the CSM and SSAO with ease since they had all the tools to access game's depth buffer.
Before watching the video: The ONE THING I dislike about TPHD is how they changed the tears collection quest by reducing the number of bugs. A good portion of the level design goes unused for those early areas, inclusive one in Kakariko Village that foreshadows the presence of a golden bug in an abandoned house and other places that make the toppling wardrobes and such useful. Thanks to the reduction in number of bugs, those locations go unused.
Now, let's watch the video.
Everything you said is on point. The improvements on textures feel overdone to me, and the lag on Link's startup walking speed always bothered me on the Wii U version. I had no idea there were so many changes made aside form those, but you nailed the list!
good catch on the item wheel! it's goated.
also funny thing about the music transition; im listening to this video in the BG with headphones and noticed that the music is still playing but it's insanely, BARELY, audible...like they accidentally cranked the volume too low.
really bizarre...
I played Twilight Princess HD day 1 when it came out and haven't touched it again since beating it. The only thing I distinctly remember not liking about it was the horse controls. It felt so jarringly unresponsive compared to what I'd been used to from the Wii version that I assumed it was a mistake/oversight. You're telling me they made the controls less fluid *on purpose* ?! 😳
I can only presume. But considering how bleh horse controls are in other games that's the only conclusion I can come up with.
Fantastic video.
I find myself agreeing with everything you say, which is not common for me lol.
TP will always be my favorite zelda game, with it also being my first and a major part of my childhood, it holds a special place in my heart. The story is just amazing on it's own.
Also, got a good laugh out of 2:45 , was NOT expecting that and the way you said it just had me dying.
Anyways, great video, hope to see more like it!!
I gotta add onto the texture nitpick.
The way the gc version rendered twilight as a hazy, blurry zone was awesome in my opinion.
Great video. I've always felt like something was off when playing Twilight Princess HD and thought maybe I had finally just lost the ability to go back to Twilight Princess, but these changes really match all the things that felt off to me. I was going to replay the GameCube version recently, but my GameCube's laser decided to kick the bucket on me even though it was just working the last time I played and booted up Sonic Adventure 2. Though, that did take like 5 minutes of me opening, closing, and restarting my GameCube at least 10 times. This has been a long time coming. Too bad it happened when I decided to go back to my original favorite game of all time after not playing for 7 years post my most recent Wii U journey
Sorry to hear that dude
It is fixable, although nerve wracking to adjust the laser intensity. It’s like an 8th turn and then check to see if it reads discs.
Ideally use a cheap game to test out on.
@@DanSutherland I'm gonna get it fixed. Just a matter of having some extra cash and time to take care of it, and my wife has a baby due in 2 months, so... it's gonna be a while. But I will have it done so my kids can grow up enjoying and appreciating the classics
I have the same issue with the Gamecube disk reader, i would use Dolphin emulator. Nowadays, all of the weird emulation bugs have been fixed, a Gamecube now is irrelevant.
@@saricubra2867 this is true, but I just like the feel of using the classic system. Any time I can spend away from my laptop is also good time for me. I have a great one, but work just makes me sick of looking at the thing
I really don't get why TP is the only Zelda game to have an item wheel instead of a grid (that I can remember of). Yeah, it was kind of unpolished in TP specifically, but nothing that some tweaks couldn't fix. Literally my biggest gripe with Breath of the Wild is having to scroll through that gigantic line of weapons every time I break one, it would definitely benefit from a wheel instead of that crap, and they didn't even bother fixing it in Tears of The Kingdom
Skyward Sword had a wheel for items and it was awesome. I know the motion control aspect may turn people off but I think it felt pretty good snappy.
I completely feel you on the Audio transition issue. I’ve only ever played the GameCube version, but I know that would annoy me to hell on Wii U. It’s such a minor thing but getting immersed in the world and music is such a large part of Zelda, so that alone means I’ll stick with GameCube personally. Plus the lack of item wheel , I loved that about TP
Same, except I play on the Wii.
i havent played this game in HD but i can spot those issues in general, just couldnt put it into words, so thanks for the video.
nowadays there are tons of fans moding games to have "HD textures" without realizing that sometime that destroy the game visuals.
Video very well done my friend! You deserve more subscribers 😁 the gamecube version for me was amazing i loved every minute of it
Loved the video! Was wondering whether it would be possible for you to make a video about Skyward Sword. Doesn't necessarily have to be about HD vs OG, but would love to see your thoughts about SS because it is my personal favorite Zelda game(and maybe game of all time).
Definitely one of my favourites as well, but I always have to be careful which Zelda fan I admit that to, because, despite its banger dungeons, music, characters & story, it's still _"easily the _*_WORST_*_ 3D Zelda"_ apparently (although there are more people who like it now that it's come to Switch and BotW/TotK have filled the "exploration" void that a lot of fans wanted).
I guess most people played the game on the Wii, but the Gamecube version is the "canon" version because Link is supposed to be left-handed. The right-handed change was an accessibility choice that doesn't reflect the game's "intended form".
Good video! I originally played it on the wii when it first came out, and last year I played the GameCube version. It's still my favorite Zelda game, and I desperately want another re-release.
I love the old lighting and more blurred quality of the lower resolution. I agree that the new visual stylings didn't do any favors. Weapon wheel is goated, there's nothing more to that. And I didn't know about the Wii U music fadeout issue. But if I was in Hyrule Field and I went through a loading area only to have the best moment in the song be robbed from me I'd be legitimately pissed. I like to ride around avoiding enemies just so I can hear that part.
On the subject of music, I wish they'd give TP the orchestral treatment. It would be so deserved.
It's weird how Wind Waker HD had several tracks replace with live instruments and not a single one got updated in Twilight Princess. It's my favorite Zelda OST and I would love to have a version of the game go full orchestra.
@@Mr.Welbig They also removed the intro cutscene with Orchestra Piece #1 in the background, presumably because they couldn't -be bothered to- remake it with the upscaled visuals - at least they put Orchestra Piece #2 into the extended part of the credits, but it would've been really cool to have had both play within a single edition of the game.
What's interesting to think about with Twilight Princess HD and the more heavy criticisms it received graphically and art direction wise compared to Wind Waker HD is that it makes the conversation one of the most ironic in Zelda history. Because the initial reveal of Wind Waker was so universally hated by most Zelda fans because of the slap in the face thay felt from it being cartoon cell shading and not the realistic OOT style game that was teased at Space World 2001. But it's that very art style that made Wind Waker HD such a damn beautiful remake of a game that still holds up well already to this day. So when the art style is already immaculate (personally I always have a soft spot for the gamecube versions of TP and WW because of the gamecube button UI being super nostalgic to me) then the conversation really turns into which game has better dungeon designs and is an overall a better experience. Sometimes I think Wind Waker is the better overall experience because some of those TP dungeons are just needlessly bloated. To me it's just funny that everyone hated WW at first for its art style but it's thanks to that style that it is way more loved than TP to this day Including the debate between which HD remake was more aesthtically pleasing.
I agree with you on the textures, they weren't done right. I used to think that there was just no way to make HD textures look good on low-poly geometry, but Nerrel's HD Majora's Mask texture pack looks so good because it was done well. It's one of the best texture packs made for any game, ever.
Nerrel is goated tbh, what a character.
@@garoozies914 truly
Thank you for the point about how looking down at the Wii U gamepad is inconvenient. I've always felt that switching between screens is far more natural on DS and 3DS than on Wii U, so I'm happy to see someone else point that out.
I actually appreciate the well-researched nitpicks. Several of them like the horse controls and the lack of baked-in lighting (underrated these days tbh when the natural lighting looks consistently worse) have always stuck out to me in this version. I'm pretty sure my mind was always tryin to cue me in the texture descrepiances that you described as worse. I've certainly seen far worse attempts at new textures, but I feel like this sort of thing highlights the gap between the attention to details in the same way you mentioned with the item wheel.
Since we're on the topic I want to bring up one change that you didn't. It took away the "Don't want you no more" (this is the official title of one of the orchestral tracks in the game) trailer that plays when you leave the menu running. I love that track and it always hyped me hype to play the game by letting the menu running and the video goes along with it perfectly. The first thing I did when booting up TPHD was just that and it never happened even after the entire intro animation cycled through.
The one thing I disagree with here is your point about the rupee chests. I wasted so much time in the original version searching all the chest icons on the map to find a key, only to realise I walked back to rupee chest I already found.
Since rupees really aren’t that useful in Twilight Princess (or any 3D Zelda pre BotW) I don‘t really mind „wasting“ them for the sake of clearing out their icons on the map.
That said, my ideal version of Twilight Princess would keep the chests functioning like they did in the original, but would simply mark the chest icon with a rupee symbol once you‘ve opened it and put the rupees back. That way you wouldn’t waste them and it would still clear up the confusion.
I came here to say that the motion controls on the Wii version feel the best out of all the versions to me (and they were completely removed from the HD version), and you pointed that out. 👌 I always love returning to the Cave of Ordeals on Wii, and using motion controls to kill hordes of enemies. Feels so good every time... the only problem is I can't play it on a big screen, otherwise the graphics start to really show their age. Too bad that couldn't have been kept on Wii U!
I also completely agree that the updated textures only further accentuate the dated geometry in the game.
For a rerelease that came out years ago, this is an amazing, well detailed to the point video. As someone who grew up playing this game, and also considers it my favourite game of all time, this video alone earned a like & subscribe. Hope to see more content from you, this is really great high quality stuff that reminds me of YT from a decade ago.
I really miss the item wheel. I hope if they bring both WW and TP to the Switch, they put it in both those games. Also I want a flipped map option like you said. I feel like I have a concussion every time I play the Wii U version because I played the Wii version like 5 times and muscle memory is really killing me.
Very much appreciate the upfront honesty that, despite the flaws, the WiiU Version is undoubtedly the better one to play today
It's almost like we can appreciate a piece of media, despite knowing and acknowledging its flaws. Crazy, I know
I think the actual problem with rupees in TP is that there isn’t really a ton to do with them. Any item would need to buy to progress is going to be thrown at you right before you need it; bombs in the lakebed temple for example. There probably should have been incentive to use them in the first place.
You're NOT the only one who loved the item wheel. Skyward Sword brought it back, and it was even kept in Skyward Sword HD. It not being in Twilight Princess HD is a legitimate downgrade.
I agree with your points, but there also another change that the HD version made that I really didn't like.
The HUD.
In the gamecube version, the HUD was so elegant and fancy. It wasn't too colorful for TP, but it was colorful enough and was pleasant on the eyes. I also love the curvy pattern between the gamecube buttons as it looks like golden strands of straw or hay, and it fits Link's farmboy upbringing.
I love the Wii version's too. It's also fitting for the game, for a completely different but equally awesome reason. It looks like dark tainted glass, which matches the hazy twilight aesthetic. Also, the four item slots really emphasizes just how big Link's inventory is in this game, so seeing all that heavy-duty gear on the side of the screen felt badass as fuck.
The HD version is just... Little white buttons. It doesn't fit the game, they're really small, and damn they are boring as hell.
I miss old HUD art.
Again, just a nitpick, but damn old HUDs were cool.
I haven't touched any of the versions of these games, but this video was entertaining as hell. Beautifully presented and I feel like whenever I get around to playing this I'm well informed with which version to play.
it actually doesn’t cut out completely. its just so quiet you can’t hear it. listen with headphones on this video. i realized because i was listening via my car speakers
TPHD is the1st & only Xelda I've ever played & I really enjoyed it. I'f still go for that version personally however many of ur complaints I agreed wit & I wish they would re-rerelease it lol
As someone that played Twilight Princess for the first time through HD, and only played the GC original recently, I actually feel this really strongly! After HD I thought Twilight Princess would be one of the few Zelda games I straight up didn't like, but especially with the visuals, the original somehow feels that much more...vibrant? In that way, it really made me understand what people mean when they say it's their favorite.
Just bought an Odin 2 about two weeks ago and I've been playing Twilight Princess for the first time. This game slaps in so many ways! Great story, creative dungeons, cool new concepts, fun bosses, I just love it so far !!! I love that little twirl Link does with his sword wheh fighting
I'm sorry I have to agree with all your points there 😢
No wonder I never tried the Wii U version, I felt something was off. And I couldn't play that version with these nitpicks as well, since I'm from the Wii version. The biggest improvements to me would be sword button, anti-aliasing and camera stick control. That would be it. (Nothing that couldn't be fixed with the GameCube version.)
Nothing could beat the og version!
Agree 100%. I strongly prefer the original versions of both Twilight Princess and Wind Waker, mainly because of how much they ruined the visuals. They messed up Wind Waker a lot more, but Twilight Princess also suffered. Hi-res textures on games with lower poly geometry does not look good. Period.
As someone who originally played through the Wii version all those years ago, I completely agree with the sentiment that there should have been separate toggles for mirror mode and hero mode. While I personally opted for the default playthrough to make the experience more new to me, I sympathize with those who just want to relive nostalgic memories exactly as they were and yet can't because of the harder difficulty tied to it.
Regarding the graphics, I think the new textures are fine but I agree a thousand fold with your point about the models. The original lower poly models looked fine on older screens because of how much less detail was visible on them. It sold the illusion of the models being higher poly than they really were, something that many retro games took advantage of. These days just slapping HD textures on low poly models just makes how low poly they are stand out. It would have been very appreciated for them to overhaul the models to take advantage of the buffed up hardware the game is running on and look nicer on modern screens, especially in regards to hair. It doesn't need to be anything super duper fancy or anything, just enough to deal with the problem of polygons being far too obvious. A common trick older games used to do with their models was to increase detail in places you're likely to be looking like the hands and face so that lower detail elsewhere isn't as noticeable and you think the model is overall higher poly and more detailed than it really is. Something like that could have been done here without having to remake the models entirely.
I too was looking forward to a graphic overhaul with dynamic lighting like in WWHD… 😒 imo, TP needed it the most compared to WW and SS. Good video, I never realized that change to the loading screen music which is pretty lame… for me, the worst offense was not being able to remove the hud items like in SS and WWHD 😂
You make a good point about the textures, it reminds me of those HD texture packs for OoT and MM that have very detailed textures on blocky models.
One of the most frustrating things about Twilight princess HD and Wind waker HD to some extent is how they want you to use the gamepad. If you want gyro controls, you have to use the gamepad, which makes playing these games on an emulator more complicated. And locking the quick transformation mechanic to the gamepad instead of a simple button combinations is annoying.
If you play twilight princess on an emulator like myself. The best version is probably the gamecube version being emulated on dolphin with a fan made texture pack and codes that improve the game.
Great vid!
Only having 2 item buttons is the reason I don't like the GameCube version, constantly needing to pause to swap items becomes cumbersome, it's annoyed me more than all of the downsides of the HD remaster combined.
It seems downright bizarre to cite 'it's hard to play on an emulator!' as a legitimate criticism. It's... literally not supposed to be played on one? It's designed for the console it's on??
@@Stathio Yeah I guess. I guess it's more of a criticism of the Wii U if anything.
Great job on the video and analysis. Would love to see similar videos on the other Zelda remakes
Other than TOTK, Twilight Princess will forever be my favourite zelda game. Not only was it my first zelda game but its one of the few games from my childhood that genuinely holds up
Twilight is my favorite As well. I currently have 60 + hours in TOTK and I understand why people like it. I could never get into BOTW and pretty much dismissed modern Zelda, but TOTK manages to hook me.
@@Evilj82 I totally understand not being able to not get into the botw style zelda formula. But I'm happy you got hooked by totk and I hope you enjoy it
Problem is that the asset quality is so low res that the HD version looks out of place.
The only HD about HD version is the texture quality. No model upgrade, no bump maps, no advanced lighting, no framerate upgrades...
My first experience with TP was on the Wii. Then when you play TPHD, everything is mirrored. Graphically not much difference on Wii version if you're playing it on Wii U. The controls were simple and didn't need to be precise like Skyward Sword. Also I used a text walkthrough I printed out with no pictures or visuals which made for a more amazing experience. The soundtrack...oh geez, I'm still waiting for another track similar to Twilight and Sky Keep from SS and the Ice Ruins from Link Between Worlds. The Divine Beast Vah Ruta from BOTW sounds more like a field trip through the Winchester Mansion or some other fancy Mansion.
Those points are actually a valid reason to play GC over HD, even if they're smaller nitpicks
Also the way you explained why HD textures are worse than the lower GC ones was excellent
13:33 Throwback to my childhood bedroom TV. We really lived the same childhood >
I love Twilight Princess and you tackled every argument I had with the HD remake and pointed out a few other things I didn’t even notice. Pretty cool
I'm surprised you didnt mention how bad the tall grass looks compared to the original. That was one of the first things I noticed when the remaster came out, it just sticks out so unnaturally where in the original it somewhat blended into the ground and looked pretty good imo
Even with all of its nitpicks and downfalls, it is an ABSOLUTELY phenomenal game.
very well done critique. always felt that something was off about the remake but i could never exactly pinpoint why.
Seeing you talk about the textures was odd, I thought I agreed with you, as everything you said about the HD I agree with, but the 4K mod for the GC and Wii, I like that one more than the normal textures
Great video! I first played on the Wii when it came out and loved it (that extra item slot was nice), but the gamecube version is the best way to experience 😙
Agreed.
Not being able to switch to the Wii map (In normal mode) really disappointed me. That’s the one I played multiple times before the HD version came out. Playing the Gamecube map (yes I know it’s the intended map) made me kinda dizzy. Running into a wall because I expected the doorway to be there…I never understood why Nintendo such an issue with players preference.
My big hope for the next release is an orchestral soundtrack. Many songs seem like they were intended to be played by live instruments. The midi renditions always sounded a bit lacklustre to me. I'd be over the moon if they did that and included a toggle so you can switch between old and new soundtracks.
I’m still disappointed with how lazy an “HD Remaster” this was. Especially when you compare it to the Xenoblade Chronicles Remaster we got 4 years later. Not only did Monolithsoft completely rehaul the graphics engine from the ground up to make the game stunningly gorgeous, they made countless quality of life changes which made the Switch version much better to play. Twilight Princess stands alongside Xenoblade 1 in my all time top 5. Nintendo should be ashamed.
Nah man, your critiques are 100% valid. Here’s the thing: this thing cost $50. Near full price for a game we’ve already played, but with basically no differences except a negligible and arguably bad visual update, worse controls, and distractions like the audio fade-out. They didn’t even fix enemy music and Midna’s lament. Anybody who can get their hands on the GC version should play that one. As far as I’m concerned, not only is far better than the HD rerelease, it is still the best and definitive version of the game. It’s just a shame Nintendo underprinted it and it’s still basically full price secondhand.
another thing i wanna mention about the item menu: in the hd version you can't hold a direction in the joystick and keep going in that direction in the menu; you have to awkwardly flick the joystick multiple times towards that direction or use the dpad to scroll past multiple items, whereas the item wheel didnt have this
hell not to mention this wasnt a thing in oot or mm either which also had grid based item menus... like what???
You didn’t even address the unremastered music. The Zelda game with the most realistic art direction, and it doesn’t even use real instruments. Wind Waker HD is another GameCube remaster on Wii U, and that had remeastered music (don’t know if that used real instruments but it certainly sounds closer now). Why the hell didnt they do the same with Twilight Princess HD? And the updated visuals just make the N64-sounding music much more jarring to listen to in the background. That was probably my biggest issue with this remaster.
Like I said in another post. Nintendo used an Australian developer called Tantalus Media for Twilight Princess HD. Wind Waker HD was developed in house by Nintendo. It’s no wonder it turned out better.
11:12 you said that it completely cuts out, but I can still hear it the whole time. It does drop in volume a ton more than the original, but it's not GONE gone
I also played GameCube version rather than Wii version, but given how Wii U is, they could really made Motion Plus Wiimote controls as an option for the game to seal that "one HD remaster worth 60 euro" deal. Much like Mirrored should been a choice outside hero mode, indeed and it still bums me out that Twiligh Princess was way more outsourced and less thought of port from Wind Waker, where I personally feel the graphical changes alone are enough to cause large tables of fans to argue which one looks better, and I think original nailed it, and shading in HD ruins the effects Cel Shading and thick outlines were meant to convey.
Good video. TP is my favorite game of all time as well.
I never even played the GameCube version as a kid, only the Wii version. Yet, when HD came out, I was extremely annoyed with the camera controls too.
In regards to the faster climbing speed, it may not save the game, but it definitely saves the end portion of the forest temple for me.
Another thing I dearly miss is that video that plays after the opening with Link riding through Hyrule field. I know they would've had to re-record the footage for it due to the higher resolution but c'mon.
I think while porting the game over to the Wii U the devs (Tantalus) must've messed up the volume on the music transitions because they can still be heard while in the loading screen, they are just super quiet. Great video tho
Twilight Princess is my personal second favourite video game. (First being Xenoblade X, for the no one that asked) and honestly? You bring up some solid points. I was so excited to replay one of my favourite games I overlooked some things. But I always felt something was off in places. And yeah. It was the area music cutting out and how jittery Link is now/how unjittery Epona is. But more notably it did always feel like I was fighting the camera compared to what I was used to. It was weird. And the rupees not returning to the chests. Thank you. Someone actually said it. That was such a great feature. Why did they bother removing it?
Nice video man, i also think the original versión looks better than the hd, is one of those games that were planned to exploit the lower resolution graphics to make the ilusion of more detailed environment, so if they are going to make an hd remaster, they also have to update the modeling and add more detail. The gamecube version has the spirit of the game.
21:35 The _real_ QoL update to the Light Vessel bit was the fact that you don't have to wait for the animation of the Tears of -the Kingdo- Light appearing from the bug things anymore; you can just pick one up as soon as it appears now.
Hmm... I never noticed as I haven't played the GC and HD versions of TP in a long time, but I see what you mean. But, like you said TP HD is still the better version to play the game, but there was some changes that shouldn't have happened.
This reminds me of the Majora's Mask Remake and how much I don't like it either. There was so many changes that I didn't like and felt like a downgrade; Deku Water Skipping, Zora Swim change, Ice Arrow Change, the indirect nerf of the Fierce Deity Mask to name a few. I do like some QoL improvements like more precise control over Double Time to pick a time instead of to the half point of the day and an extra bottle though unneeded I think. And the graphic changes too.
I find the original N64 version better overall and I greatly enjoyed playing it on NSO which I think is a great improvement with its touch up on the visuals without losing what made it special like the Remake did.
A shame, I feel like TP HD would've been better if it kept Link's weighted controls from GC, Epona's snappy controls. Sometimes fun and precise gameplay is better than "realistic" gameplay and especially if it goes against the original game design that isn't that much compatible with that change.
Great review. Gives me a greater appreciate the OG GC version.