Thank you for making this. Based on this video and some simple physics calculations, I decided that the 1500w 150Nm CYC x1 stealth is plenty for me instead of the 5000w 250Nm CYC x1 pro.
Loved the video! I'll visit these places for sure. Looks very pretty and peaceful! Can't wait to take my Aventon Sinch out for a ride, recently purchased It from SWFL Golf Carts
I went back and forth between what I wanted. Ultimately I chose the ride1up cafe cruiser for comfort. My regular ride is a 5 mile 1200ft climb. It handles it well, but requires a fair bit of effort. I could probably use much less on higher assistance setting, but I bought it for some more exercise so I don't mind it haha.
Here in California , I needed something powerful. My Ariel D-class will climb pretty much any decent paved hill without even losing a ton of speed. Been on tons of steep trails.... If I'm pedaling in first, it's a bit of a learning curve cuz front tire want to spin out a bit but it's made every single steep dirt trail I've done. It's climbs hills that are tricky for me to do on my mountain bike.
An important point regarding torque. With a hub motor, whatever torque is generated is applied to the rear wheel. With a mid drive whatever torque is generated by the motor is multiplied by the ratio of the gear you're in. The ratio is the number of teeth on the front sprocket divided by the number of teeth on the rear sprocket. So in the lower gears a considerable multiplication of the motor torque can be applied to the rear wheel. I To further complicate things, in both cases there maybe a fixed gear ratio attached to the electric motor. So to quote torque figures needs to come with a caveat. Great videos you do. I enjoy watching them.
I'm looking into ebikes and as a fat bastard (265 lbs) I appreciate the honest comparison and also really seeing the torque difference on mid-drive vs hub. Thanks you. Wish I could give a better rating than just thumbs up. Hope you have a great day.
Fellow fat bastard myself. I called it the Panda-demic because I kept eating at panda express. Just curious what bike you bought? I’ve been going down a rabbit hole of information. Juiced, Bee Cool, Magicycle, Ariel Kepler & Aventon. Now Bitrix. So many brands but $2k budget limits my options. Hope all is well.
Best real value video of the real power(as opposed to just top speed) of ebikes! Torque and peak power output should be part of every bike review in my opinion. Thank you for a super useful review as always! SkipRay, Kerry, Ireland.
I have the E-CELLS Dual Crown Super Monarch 1500 AWD Limited Edition. It has 2- 750 watt Bafang Hub Motors, 2200 watts peak and 170nm Of Torque. It has an 11 gear cassette and It rips up hills like a billy goat.
I live in a very hilly area in Southern California, and honestly I never had to go past PAS 2 to climb any hill around. And we have some dooseys. I live on one myself. As long as you pedal a little, there seems to be no hill you can’t conquer!😁
@@jbwjr54 This is what I am hoping, in hilly Seattle. I do intend to pedal, that is the point for me, just want hill assist. Also hopefully not too heavy, I am petite.
I got a 1700watt Luna Cycle fat tire bike. I live in the hills of Oakland CA, so I got some steep inclines. My bike doesn't drop below 10 mph with my near 200lb butt on it. The power drain tho is crazy. On flat grounds you can get 30 miles no problem but as soon as you get to the hills you better baby it otherwise you barely get five miles.
Great content! I live in SF and hills slap down most ebikes without a bit of pedal support. My experience is that if you know how to use your bike gears effectively and keep up a good cadence, then hills between 15-20% are doable. I commute from the flat east side to the hilly west side every day almost with a 250W hub motor, and I’m fine. Mid drives are better but ebikes are evolving. Skip the cheap manufactured bikes with stamped out designs. Ebikes are expensive but if it replaces your car, then why not get the best ebike for your needs. Just get out there and enjoy the ride!
At first you were only talking about Power (Watts) when what really matters in hill-climbing is Torque. I’m glad you finally transitioned to talking about Torque. Ebike makers know this and it’s the reason they rarely mention torque specs. They’ll toss the power spec around but hide the low torque fact. Look for the better makers who will reveal the torque specs, at least 120 newton-meters will climb hills on throttle all day. You can find ones with high power but weak torque. It’s about the newton-meters.
Thanks for the video. This does help a lot to hear you say how much of a difference a mid drive system makes vs a hub motor. Much appreciated. Granted the different combinations of voltages and amperages to make up the watts of peak power over 1000w, would you still differentiate 48v systems over 52v systems for hill climbing ability? I think you already saved me from buying a budget rear hub motor cargo bike to haul kids vs a mid drive pricier one that would actually get the job done. Between a 36v mid drive system vs a 48v rear hub not knowing the wattage, it sounds like the mid drive really does make a big enough difference to be the preferred spec. Does that sound right?
I am glad you did the Ariel rider in your video. I always wondered how well the single rear 52v 1000w motor would do. I was hoping it was going to be the grizzly dual 1000w motor. Lol
Ive been on dirt hills where my Biktrix Ultra just ends up spinning the rear wheel for lack of traction not lack of power. Thanks for the video. Oh and I bet your mistress bike will chew up that hill big time.
For hills a mid drive is your best bet. It lets you drop to a low gear and let the motor spin up to give you max power. I custom build miid bikes to order and only use Bafang bbs02-3 or bbs-hd for my builds. My personal bike was a Motobecane sturgis, fat tire bike. Awesome bike with Maxis Minions and wet brakes and excellent build quality. The Beast was Lime Green so my son named it Kermit. I mounted a bbs-hd (over 1600W max) coupled to a 52v - 19 AH pack. Go 40+ or climb trees...Your choice. I actually put the front wheel against a tree and with throttle only It literally tried to climb the tree and I had to jump off. We have some serious hills in the area (Beaverton, OR) where most riders just walk their bikes up the hill. Kermit accelerates up those hills at 12 - 15 mph and doesn't even get warm. And then there was the great Beaverton hill climb race. I was headed home from a ride when I ran into a small group of Spandex clad road riders gathered at the bottom of a really big hill. They asked lots of questions about Kermit. One of the riders asked if I was headed up the hill. I said yup. And naturally a race up the hill was set up. We all lined up in a group. I felt Kermit would prevail. Then one of the guys spoke up and asked if I would be willing to use throttle only to "make things more fair". Of course I said yup (been there done that). We were all ready to go and this guy comes up from the back of the group. He looked like a body builder on a road bike. He was their "hill climb guy". I was just glad we didn't bet any money on the race. Well the race didn't start off well for me. The guy exploded out of the gate with a two bike lead. I was in my lowest gear. So, I punched ol Kermit and took off after him. It was not only a very steep hill but it was also a long hill. As soon as Kermit was up to speed, we started gaining on him fast. We passed him at the mid way point and just kept on going. We had him buy four bike lengths at the top running at about 8 to 10 mph. The other riders were a ways back and looked totally beat at the top of the hill. We all yakked about the race and they had their pictures taken standing with the beast...Ya just gotta love a good mid drive...kunk
I live in Beaverton, Oregon too! I was thinking about putting a Bafang BBS02 motor kit on my older Trek mountain bike. It's in great shape, but doesn't have disc brakes, which bothers me some. I'd like to talk to you more about Kermit! Sounds awesome! And just what I'm thinking about doing to my bike. How long did it take you to do the conversion? 😎
@@KOrnhOliO1 I've built 2 bikes. Spend the extra $100 and get the bbshd. It's a beast. Throw that on your trek and you'll be doing wheelies straight up any hill you want. The most important thing is your gear ratio though. Don't use a stock 46t chainring. Get a luna 30 or 36t or a smaller lekkie. Anything under 40 will help. And if you have to rework the cassette there's plenty of stuff on how to do that. A small chainring will mess up your chainline on most bikes. A fat tire bike will sometimes be ok
Great video! Where I live it's hills everywhere, so this is pretty useful when making recommendations. I'm curious: Did you ever get a level ground 0 to 20 time on the Stunner?
Very helpful. I am looking into e bikes because I am surrounded by hills. As I hit my mid 60s I am cycling so much less. I would really like to pedal almost always, just looking for assist at times. I do not need high speed, 10-14 mph is fine for me.
Another great video thank you, the be cool Explorer you tried to make up that hill, would have done a better job if it had a full battery, but I still don't think it would have made it
Thanks for the info. I wonder about an ebike conversion kit like the bafang mid drive kit, the cyc motor kits, and shimano belt drive can make up a hill. I live in a hilly state and I have trouble going up some of these high grade hills.
My wife runs the Stunner X and another huge reason she loves it is it’s weight. The bike is much more manageable than some of the other heavier ebikes out there. She absolutely loves this bike. Side Note: I run a 4000w asi controller 72V BBSHD mountain bike that would just tear that hill to pieces. Well over 10,000 rpm’s and by a click of a simple button on my display I can tune it down to 250w in a second. The world of ebikes is amazing. Off-road dirt hills of course!!🚀
@@BOOSTEDLASER hub drives just spin the bike's wheel, the power from mid drive motors is run through the bike's gears So you have a mechanical advantage, the gears amplify everything
That was very helpful. I lived last year in a Mediterranean village that is hilly. I want a sea view and apartments by the beach aren't too hilly, but a small house higher up have better views. I want to be car-less, so this will help in my decision.
@@CitizenCycle925 Wow, I discovered that the max wattage for an ebike is 250, so I'd have would have to get a mid-drive bike. I found this at REI: Co-op Cycles CTY e2.2 Electric Bike. It's got a torque rating of 60. Can't find one with more than that. Open to suggestions.
I am going to buy my 1st ebike and this helped me a lot. Can you try a dual power ebike w/ 750w mid drive and 500w hub drive? I will love to watch that. Thank you Sir!
Aventon Aventure is a strong hill climber and under $2,000. 1100 watt peak, 750 watt motor. Timing the hill climbs with a spreadsheet at the end would have been amazing.
It would be helpful if you included a list in print of the bikes. I only remember the name of one bike and it's because I had looked at it online already.
Lets be honest, it isn't the motor or watts, it is how they are geared, which is why I took a 7 speed Reid Fat Bike and 1000W mid-drive motor, but even that isn't as good as my 750W trike because of it being a 9-speed, mid-drive is the way to go.
Hey Citizen, I kind of wish you showed the bike before demonstrating the hill rides. I kinda forgot what some of the brands look like, 😅 but great content anyways! 😊 thanks
Good Info! Thanks! Researching ebikes for my wife and l. Narrowing down to Himiway, Magicycle, and Ariel Rider. I’m 60 and she is 58. We have rented Rad ebikes twice. Have you done a review on the Ariel Rider Kepler? Thanks GregT Greenville SC
The high torque bike's hill climbing was impressive. However, there must be a range impact or some other offset, right? I've seen nothing over 85 nm at Trek store, so this makes me wonder why.
If you have a decent regular bike already, just convert it to mid drive ebike. You'll get tons more performance then most any factory hub drive bike and way cheaper, and definitely cheaper than any factory mid drive. I converted a nice MTB with a Luna "Hotrodded" Befang 750w mid drive kit with a 52v 17ah battery and it's quite amazing. 11-42 Deore cassette. Takes hills like a Billy goat. 30mph no problem in PAS 2. Motor is totally silent. But if getting lots of exercise is a top priority, don't do this lol. Unless your taking crazy hills, regular riding around with moderate hills is totally effortless.
Great info as usual... ...I got a question...would u say the bestest combo for general usage and climbing hills would be a mid-drive, coupled with a front hub motor...?
Dual motors are equal if not better for hill climbing, makes a huge difference having both wheels driving you up the hill. That would be my preference I would rather have dual hub motors than a mid drive
what's better for a 10-20 % slopes with lots of headwinds for about 3 miles long road ? a 350 0r 500 watt ??? thanks P.S. as i retired senior i can only afford a bike with a rear motor under 880 dollars .please advise asap
Great comparison. I always wonder how much, if any, damage that throttle only does to the motor. It’s an electric motor so it might shorten the life of it. The last bike that you rode, with the metal gears in the in the motor, is it louder than the standard hub motor with nylon gears? Just wondering.
I'm In NW Ontario Canada and there is nothing but hills here...steep hills and really steep hills everywhere. My Stunner X mid-drive 750 watt 9 speed conquers them all. I have the 17.5 ah battery and typically go 40-50 km on a ride (starting at 100% and finishing around 25-30%), the power falls off significantly under 30% but would still be fine on the flats (whatever those are). I love my Biktrix Stunner-x with 24" off road tires... did I mention it's also all gravel and dirt here? Cheers from just north of Kenora.
Great content. I have a question. Have you noticed a difference between ebikes with (let's say) 20" wheels versus 26" wheels, using the-same rear hub motor power? Does a smaller diameter wheel give more hill climbing torque?
What ebike trikes got the most torque and towing capacity with the most miles on a full charged battery ? And may someone do videos explaining the ebikes with the least torque to the most torque ?
I had to pause your video every time you mention the bike's names 🫣😬 Maybe I am used with some chapters in youtube videos and much more elaborate description. Anyway - good job!
Would have been nice to see the weakest of the hub drives out of the bunch in first gear with light pedaling to see how it dealt with the hill vs the winner.
"I'm not an expert" again remember I am not an expert! bro-Bryan, we can all appreciate 2 years ago when the Misstress was being developed from the Rad Disstress Mother. But there comes a time when ya'll got to own it. You are an expert on reviews, riding, testing and oh my the conversion of mother Rad Disstress to our favorite Misstress. so my favorite North Carolina E-bike EXPERT wadd up with ripped front forks twisted sister?
So recap the ebike for hills is a middrive with a good gearing system (say ROHLOFF E-14) now some people would say but but but that cost xx more but that was not the question the question was what are the best ebikes for hills and the answer is clear.
I live in a hilly small mountain area, and my problem is how much battery energy is lost in climbing on paved roads. The worst problem is pushing that bike on the hills as you try to get back to base. Ie how many watt.hours/1000 ft/100kg load???
Got a Bafang M620 with 160 nm of torque on my fatbike really powerful .Problem is the Shimano Altus derailleur is not good enough in 7-8 gear makes a knocking sound will try a clutch derailleur to see if it helps the knocking sound or gear skipping not sure what it is. Do you have this issue when using max power ?
We can route our review bikes your way this summer if you want to review them. We have a Razorback 1000w UltraMax 160nm 35ah 9-spd. A War Machine Pro with 1000w UltraMax 160nm, 11-spd and a Volt 1500w 40a controller, 52v/28ah going out and working their way from CA to Florida. These are all hill eaters.
@@CitizenCycle925 Peace be with you! I enjoy your channel and would greatly appreciated if you could review AMP RIDES ebikes. I have no affiliation with AMP RIDES. Additionally, I don’t own an ebike. However I have been playing attention to the ebike industry. AMP RIDES might be considered a “Disruptor”like that of Juiced Rider, Rad Rover & Sondors. Please make it so. Bless you🙏
I have a 35° hill. My juiced hyperscorpion crushes this hill. I'm looking at aniioki a177 pro max. I would like to know your take on the comparison between the two. Please help. Thanks in advance.
I’ve been doing lots of research on ebikes and I have no idea which one to choose from 🤦🏻♀️ I have been keeping my eye on the radio flyer l885 because I can ride my kids on it. I still can’t choose 🤦🏻♀️
Question I have on torque rating of mid-drive eBikes: Is that rating the motor itself, as on a test bench or with the chain removed? Or is that the NM when the mid-drive pushes the wheel in the lowest gear (NM of wheel vs ground)
I was having similar issues with my BeeCool Explorer not making it like that but I went and changed these settings for the amp output On the controller it was set to 12 amps from the factory, You can actually set it in the settings up to 20 amps and that will make a difference I know one of your other videos that you said they didn't but I just got mine last week and it made a huge difference. Maybe that your model was earlier and it didn't have that capability or something? Going up steep hills now I am seeing peak wattage of around a 1000.
I have the amp setting set at 30. I think the max of the controller is 22 though. Whatever reason it was not peeking very high that day even at its highest I've only seen about 800
@@CitizenCycle925 I don't know maybe your version of the controller may be an earlier version or something I have no idea. I live in the northeast corner of Georgia we got lots of mountains and hills it does fine with me of course you got to help it up some of the really long ones.
Surprise that you miss Magicycle. I live in Teton Valley, Idaho. And Magicycle crushes hills out here. Sometimes I have to tackle 2 miles of uphill. I generally do not do that on throttle only to preserve my range.
i may have to ask my dad to bring the magicycle back to town for some further testing. i was in Teton village and Jackson 2 years ago, one of the most fantastic places i have ever been, luck you!!!!
I think this kind of hill climb test maybe what the internet needs. I thought Rad mini can climb, they said their geared hub motor has good torque, but it seems can’t handle the hill that you are testing on. It looks like the mid drive climbs even faster when it’s on 1 gear, is it? Does the mid drive eat up the chain like badly? Also do you think Fiido L3 can climb that hill? Another channel tested on an alleged 18% hill.
The Aventure would do ok, but I don't think it would make it. The ones that I encountered in person struggled up the hills. I passed them with a RadMini.
I'm on a budget....and you think with pedal assist that the bikes that didn't make the hill would climb the hill no problem? I'm looking for a bike foe hunting public land and I need something to climb the ridges where I hunt.
Wait, didn't you have to pedal on the mid drive to make it work? Or was that purely throttle on the mid drive bike? I didn't think mid drive bikes could be ridden with throttle only.
I want to see you take the weakest bike, set the gear to somewhere in the middle, and show us how difficult it is to make it up your hill while using the motor and pedaling too. Set the camera off to the side so we can watch you.
Excellent comparisons and conclusions!!! THX!!
Very useful comparison. Subscription worthy video. That hill with a short low speed start and throttle only was a good torture test.
awesome vid thank you !! Even though I live in an area that is completely flat, I'm still intrigued by mid motor bikes.
*Great **Latest.Bike** with amazing quality and speed…I’m in love with it and strongly recommend it. It looks a bit pricey but absolutely worth it.*
Thank you for making this. Based on this video and some simple physics calculations, I decided that the 1500w 150Nm CYC x1 stealth is plenty for me instead of the 5000w 250Nm CYC x1 pro.
Loved the video! I'll visit these places for sure. Looks very pretty and peaceful! Can't wait to take my Aventon Sinch out for a ride, recently purchased It from SWFL Golf Carts
I went back and forth between what I wanted. Ultimately I chose the ride1up cafe cruiser for comfort. My regular ride is a 5 mile 1200ft climb. It handles it well, but requires a fair bit of effort. I could probably use much less on higher assistance setting, but I bought it for some more exercise so I don't mind it haha.
Here in California , I needed something powerful. My Ariel D-class will climb pretty much any decent paved hill without even losing a ton of speed. Been on tons of steep trails.... If I'm pedaling in first, it's a bit of a learning curve cuz front tire want to spin out a bit but it's made every single steep dirt trail I've done. It's climbs hills that are tricky for me to do on my mountain bike.
Enjoyable video! I like the Biktrix.
You are a great teacher
I don't know how I missed this. Channel. You gotta some fasinating videos and I have been watching ebike channel off and on for at least five years
I'm glad you found me and that you are enjoying the videos!!
My Sondors cruiser is a mid drive 750w 1100w peak Bafang motor with a 25amp controller. Its destroys hills in most gears.
This video is a Banger Citizen! Helped me see that power is everything for hills 😁🙌
Glad you found it helpful!!
An important point regarding torque. With a hub motor, whatever torque is generated is applied to the rear wheel. With a mid drive whatever torque is generated by the motor is multiplied by the ratio of the gear you're in. The ratio is the number of teeth on the front sprocket divided by the number of teeth on the rear sprocket. So in the lower gears a considerable multiplication of the motor torque can be applied to the rear wheel. I
To further complicate things, in both cases there maybe a fixed gear ratio attached to the electric motor. So to quote torque figures needs to come with a caveat.
Great videos you do. I enjoy watching them.
Caveat of manufactures specs. oh I see you did mention "quote"
I'm looking into ebikes and as a fat bastard (265 lbs) I appreciate the honest comparison and also really seeing the torque difference on mid-drive vs hub. Thanks you. Wish I could give a better rating than just thumbs up. Hope you have a great day.
Fellow fat bastard myself. I called it the Panda-demic because I kept eating at panda express. Just curious what bike you bought? I’ve been going down a rabbit hole of information. Juiced, Bee Cool, Magicycle, Ariel Kepler & Aventon. Now Bitrix. So many brands but $2k budget limits my options. Hope all is well.
😂👍
Check out E-CELLS the bikes are built for big guy's.
Best real value video of the real power(as opposed to just top speed) of ebikes! Torque and peak power output should be part of every bike review in my opinion. Thank you for a super useful review as always! SkipRay, Kerry, Ireland.
I got the Xpremium Lectric bike, i really like it a lot.
I have the E-CELLS Dual Crown Super Monarch 1500 AWD Limited Edition. It has 2- 750 watt Bafang Hub Motors, 2200 watts peak and 170nm Of Torque. It has an 11 gear cassette and It rips up hills like a billy goat.
I live at the top of a 2-mile hill and this is one of my biggest concerns, thank you!
hope it helped!
I live in a very hilly area in Southern California, and honestly I never had to go past PAS 2 to climb any hill around. And we have some dooseys. I live on one myself. As long as you pedal a little, there seems to be no hill you can’t conquer!😁
I'm looking for another e-bike so
@@jbwjr54 This is what I am hoping, in hilly Seattle. I do intend to pedal, that is the point for me, just want hill assist. Also hopefully not too heavy, I am petite.
@@jbwjr54 what bike do you have?
I love your reviews, you do a great job.
I sure would like to see a review on the Kepler by Ariel Rider.
I got a 1700watt Luna Cycle fat tire bike. I live in the hills of Oakland CA, so I got some steep inclines. My bike doesn't drop below 10 mph with my near 200lb butt on it. The power drain tho is crazy. On flat grounds you can get 30 miles no problem but as soon as you get to the hills you better baby it otherwise you barely get five miles.
Great content! I live in SF and hills slap down most ebikes without a bit of pedal support. My experience is that if you know how to use your bike gears effectively and keep up a good cadence, then hills between 15-20% are doable. I commute from the flat east side to the hilly west side every day almost with a 250W hub motor, and I’m fine. Mid drives are better but ebikes are evolving. Skip the cheap manufactured bikes with stamped out designs. Ebikes are expensive but if it replaces your car, then why not get the best ebike for your needs. Just get out there and enjoy the ride!
How much should I spend on one
@@eh503 I met a guy who just rides around...he had a KTM bike with a Bosch mid-drive, and paid 6500 euros for it...
I am also looking for a ebike to ride around SF hills. Any suggestions on which are the best options in 2023?
At first you were only talking about Power (Watts) when what really matters in hill-climbing is Torque. I’m glad you finally transitioned to talking about Torque.
Ebike makers know this and it’s the reason they rarely mention torque specs. They’ll toss the power spec around but hide the low torque fact. Look for the better makers who will reveal the torque specs, at least 120 newton-meters will climb hills on throttle all day. You can find ones with high power but weak torque. It’s about the newton-meters.
What Torgue do you want?
Thanks for the video. This does help a lot to hear you say how much of a difference a mid drive system makes vs a hub motor. Much appreciated. Granted the different combinations of voltages and amperages to make up the watts of peak power over 1000w, would you still differentiate 48v systems over 52v systems for hill climbing ability?
I think you already saved me from buying a budget rear hub motor cargo bike to haul kids vs a mid drive pricier one that would actually get the job done. Between a 36v mid drive system vs a 48v rear hub not knowing the wattage, it sounds like the mid drive really does make a big enough difference to be the preferred spec. Does that sound right?
Yo do such a good job! nice review!
I am glad you did the Ariel rider in your video. I always wondered how well the single rear 52v 1000w motor would do. I was hoping it was going to be the grizzly dual 1000w motor. Lol
Ive been on dirt hills where my Biktrix Ultra just ends up spinning the rear wheel for lack of traction not lack of power. Thanks for the video. Oh and I bet your mistress bike will chew up that hill big time.
For hills a mid drive is your best bet. It lets you drop to a low gear and let the motor spin up to give you max power. I custom build miid bikes to order and only use Bafang bbs02-3 or bbs-hd for my builds. My personal bike was a Motobecane sturgis, fat tire bike. Awesome bike with Maxis Minions and wet brakes and excellent build quality. The Beast was Lime Green so my son named it Kermit. I mounted a bbs-hd (over 1600W max) coupled to a 52v - 19 AH pack. Go 40+ or climb trees...Your choice.
I actually put the front wheel against a tree and with throttle only It literally tried to climb the tree and I had to jump off. We have some serious hills in the area (Beaverton, OR) where most riders just walk their bikes up the hill. Kermit accelerates up those hills at 12 - 15 mph and doesn't even get warm.
And then there was the great Beaverton hill climb race. I was headed home from a ride when I ran into a small group of Spandex clad road riders gathered at the bottom of a really big hill. They asked lots of questions about Kermit. One of the riders asked if I was headed up the hill. I said yup. And naturally a race up the hill was set up. We all lined up in a group. I felt Kermit would prevail. Then one of the guys spoke up and asked if I would be willing to use throttle only to "make things more fair". Of course I said yup (been there done that). We were all ready to go and this guy comes up from the back of the group. He looked like a body builder on a road bike. He was their "hill climb guy". I was just glad we didn't bet any money on the race. Well the race didn't start off well for me. The guy exploded out of the gate with a two bike lead. I was in my lowest gear. So, I punched ol Kermit and took off after him. It was not only a very steep hill but it was also a long hill. As soon as Kermit was up to speed, we started gaining on him fast. We passed him at the mid way point and just kept on going. We had him buy four bike lengths at the top running at about 8 to 10 mph. The other riders were a ways back and looked totally beat at the top of the hill. We all yakked about the race and they had their pictures taken standing with the beast...Ya just gotta love a good mid drive...kunk
Kermit sounds awesome! Great story 🙂
I live in Beaverton, Oregon too! I was thinking about putting a Bafang BBS02 motor kit on my older Trek mountain bike. It's in great shape, but doesn't have disc brakes, which bothers me some.
I'd like to talk to you more about Kermit! Sounds awesome! And just what I'm thinking about doing to my bike. How long did it take you to do the conversion? 😎
@@KOrnhOliO1 a mid drive conversion will take about 2 hrs tops
@@KOrnhOliO1 I've built 2 bikes. Spend the extra $100 and get the bbshd. It's a beast. Throw that on your trek and you'll be doing wheelies straight up any hill you want. The most important thing is your gear ratio though. Don't use a stock 46t chainring. Get a luna 30 or 36t or a smaller lekkie. Anything under 40 will help. And if you have to rework the cassette there's plenty of stuff on how to do that. A small chainring will mess up your chainline on most bikes. A fat tire bike will sometimes be ok
@@baitball4665which internal gear hub can handle the power of the BBSHD?
Awesome video
Thanks!
@@CitizenCycle925 I only got about $1,600. What you you consider the best at this price range
Great line up video ! I bought Himiway cruiser after watching your video. You think the cruiser would make it up that hill?
THANK YOU !!!!° You answered all of the questions I have no clue how to ask. Wanting to know. Seems forever. In what. Ten minutes 😁.
Great video! Where I live it's hills everywhere, so this is pretty useful when making recommendations. I'm curious: Did you ever get a level ground 0 to 20 time on the Stunner?
2nd time watching and still great content!
Very helpful. I am looking into e bikes because I am surrounded by hills. As I hit my mid 60s I am cycling so much less. I would really like to pedal almost always, just looking for assist at times. I do not need high speed, 10-14 mph is fine for me.
More power, the better off you are! Just saying! You can always stay at pedal assist 1-2 if you want to go slow 7-15 mph range.
Another great video thank you, the be cool Explorer you tried to make up that hill, would have done a better job if it had a full battery, but I still don't think it would have made it
Thanks for the info. I wonder about an ebike conversion kit like the bafang mid drive kit, the cyc motor kits, and shimano belt drive can make up a hill. I live in a hilly state and I have trouble going up some of these high grade hills.
My wife runs the Stunner X and another huge reason she loves it is it’s weight. The bike is much more manageable than some of the other heavier ebikes out there. She absolutely loves this bike.
Side Note: I run a 4000w asi controller 72V BBSHD mountain bike that would just tear that hill to pieces. Well over 10,000 rpm’s and by a click of a simple button on my display I can tune it down to 250w in a second. The world of ebikes is amazing. Off-road dirt hills of course!!🚀
Yes the stunner x does feel really lightweight when you ride it. feels like a regular bicycle, I often ride it with no pedal assist
@@CitizenCycle925 HOW CAN 750 BE BETTER THAN 2000?
@@BOOSTEDLASER because it's a 750 mid drive
@@CitizenCycle925 SO HOW IS 750 MORE POWER THAN 200O..THE LOGIC SEEMS...ODD.
I MEAN 2000> 750
DOES CENTER DEFY PHYSICS?
WE ARE CONFUSED
@@BOOSTEDLASER hub drives just spin the bike's wheel, the power from mid drive motors is run through the bike's gears So you have a mechanical advantage, the gears amplify everything
1000w peak and in a mid drive . Thanks perfect plan
That was good, thanks. ( by the way, I am looking at a Biktrix mid drive bike).
That was very helpful. I lived last year in a Mediterranean village that is hilly. I want a sea view and apartments by the beach aren't too hilly, but a small house higher up have better views. I want to be car-less, so this will help in my decision.
Glad it was helpful Thanks for the comment!
@@CitizenCycle925 Wow, I discovered that the max wattage for an ebike is 250, so I'd have would have to get a mid-drive bike. I found this at REI: Co-op Cycles CTY e2.2 Electric Bike. It's got a torque rating of 60. Can't find one with more than that. Open to suggestions.
Excellent real life performance review🏆🏆🏆🏆
The Himiway Cruiser would make that hill no problem as well. Bike is a, BEAST!
I am going to buy my 1st ebike and this helped me a lot. Can you try a dual power ebike w/ 750w mid drive and 500w hub drive? I will love to watch that. Thank you Sir!
Don't bikes with smaller wheels (such as the Rad mini) give a better mechanical advantage?
that was fun.
Aventon Aventure is a strong hill climber and under $2,000. 1100 watt peak, 750 watt motor. Timing the hill climbs with a spreadsheet at the end would have been amazing.
I would have liked to see how good it would have done, since that is the next e-bike I have been thinking about getting.
fires
It would be helpful if you included a list in print of the bikes. I only remember the name of one bike and it's because I had looked at it online already.
Lets be honest, it isn't the motor or watts, it is how they are geared, which is why I took a 7 speed Reid Fat Bike and 1000W mid-drive motor, but even that isn't as good as my 750W trike because of it being a 9-speed, mid-drive is the way to go.
Would have been interesting to see you come to a complete stop right before the hump and try to resume climbing from there.
Hey Citizen, I kind of wish you showed the bike before demonstrating the hill rides. I kinda forgot what some of the brands look like, 😅 but great content anyways! 😊 thanks
Good Info! Thanks!
Researching ebikes for my wife and l. Narrowing down to Himiway, Magicycle, and Ariel Rider. I’m 60 and she is 58. We have rented Rad ebikes twice. Have you done a review on the Ariel Rider Kepler?
Thanks
GregT
Greenville SC
The high torque bike's hill climbing was impressive. However, there must be a range impact or some other offset, right?
I've seen nothing over 85 nm at Trek store, so this makes me wonder why.
If you have a decent regular bike already, just convert it to mid drive ebike. You'll get tons more performance then most any factory hub drive bike and way cheaper, and definitely cheaper than any factory mid drive. I converted a nice MTB with a Luna "Hotrodded" Befang 750w mid drive kit with a 52v 17ah battery and it's quite amazing. 11-42 Deore cassette. Takes hills like a Billy goat. 30mph no problem in PAS 2. Motor is totally silent. But if getting lots of exercise is a top priority, don't do this lol. Unless your taking crazy hills, regular riding around with moderate hills is totally effortless.
Great info as usual... ...I got a question...would u say the bestest combo for general usage and climbing hills would be a mid-drive, coupled with a front hub motor...?
Dual motors are equal if not better for hill climbing, makes a huge difference having both wheels driving you up the hill. That would be my preference I would rather have dual hub motors than a mid drive
Hmm.. Still no test of an Ariel Rider Kepler 🤔 Good show! Oh at least you did an X 52 Ariel Rider. Cool
what's better for a 10-20 % slopes with lots of headwinds for about 3 miles long road ? a 350 0r 500 watt ??? thanks P.S. as i retired senior i can only afford a bike with a rear motor under 880 dollars .please advise asap
Great comparison. I always wonder how much, if any, damage that throttle only does to the motor. It’s an electric motor so it might shorten the life of it. The last bike that you rode, with the metal gears in the in the motor, is it louder than the standard hub motor with nylon gears? Just wondering.
Yes the ariel rider with the internal metal gears is noticeably louder
@@CitizenCycle925 WAS HOPING FOR GRIZZLEY :(
I'm In NW Ontario Canada and there is nothing but hills here...steep hills and really steep hills everywhere. My Stunner X mid-drive 750 watt 9 speed conquers them all. I have the 17.5 ah battery and typically go 40-50 km on a ride (starting at 100% and finishing around 25-30%), the power falls off significantly under 30% but would still be fine on the flats (whatever those are). I love my Biktrix Stunner-x with 24" off road tires... did I mention it's also all gravel and dirt here? Cheers from just north of Kenora.
Awesome!
I live in hilly Seattle. Now I just need to get the sticker shock for this e bike. Thanks.
Would have been appreciated if u showed actual pics of the bikes involved! some of these bikes are rebranded in different countries
Great content. I have a question. Have you noticed a difference between ebikes with (let's say) 20" wheels versus 26" wheels, using the-same rear hub motor power? Does a smaller diameter wheel give more hill climbing torque?
I think it's just the opposite... Larger wheel, better speed and torque.
Smaller wheel...more torque...less speed.
What ebike trikes got the most torque and towing capacity with the most miles on a full charged battery ? And may someone do videos explaining the ebikes with the least torque to the most torque ?
I need one for the streets of San Francisco!! 90 degree hills!! Any recommendations?
Wouldnt front wheel drives be the best for this though?
Was hoping to see the Wired bike climb the hill
Awesome! Any recommendations for a backcountry camping up for steep off road mountain trail e-bike?
maybe check out some dual motor bikes, they climb well, they dig and claw their way to the top of hills.
@@CitizenCycle925 Awesome! Thank you
It’s about gearing not power. The mid drive can use gear ratios best suited to climbing
I had to pause your video every time you mention the bike's names 🫣😬 Maybe I am used with some chapters in youtube videos and much more elaborate description.
Anyway - good job!
Have you tried any of the Quietkat models? I'm a senior and considering that maker.
Have u tried any of the Aventon series?
Would have been nice to see the weakest of the hub drives out of the bunch in first gear with light pedaling to see how it dealt with the hill vs the winner.
"I'm not an expert" again remember I am not an expert! bro-Bryan, we can all appreciate 2 years ago when the Misstress was being developed from the Rad Disstress Mother.
But there comes a time when ya'll got to own it. You are an expert on reviews, riding, testing and oh my the conversion of mother Rad Disstress to our favorite Misstress. so my favorite North Carolina E-bike EXPERT wadd up with ripped front forks twisted sister?
So recap the ebike for hills is a middrive with a good gearing system (say ROHLOFF E-14) now some people would say but but but that cost xx more but that was not the question the question was what are the best ebikes for hills and the answer is clear.
have you done a review on the Juice JetCurrent PRO?
I live in a hilly small mountain area, and my problem is how much battery energy is lost in climbing on paved roads. The worst problem is pushing that bike on the hills as you try to get back to base. Ie how many watt.hours/1000 ft/100kg load???
Got a Bafang M620 with 160 nm of torque on my fatbike really powerful .Problem is the Shimano Altus derailleur is not good enough in 7-8 gear makes a knocking sound will try a clutch derailleur to see if it helps the knocking sound or gear skipping not sure what it is. Do you have this issue when using max power ?
I have not noticed that issue with mine
We can route our review bikes your way this summer if you want to review them. We have a Razorback 1000w UltraMax 160nm 35ah 9-spd. A War Machine Pro with 1000w UltraMax 160nm, 11-spd and a Volt 1500w 40a controller, 52v/28ah going out and working their way from CA to Florida. These are all hill eaters.
If one of the bikes can make a stop in North Carolina that would be great!!
@@CitizenCycle925 Peace be with you! I enjoy your channel and would greatly appreciated if you could review AMP RIDES ebikes. I have no affiliation with AMP RIDES. Additionally, I don’t own an ebike. However I have been playing attention to the ebike industry. AMP RIDES might be considered a “Disruptor”like that of Juiced Rider, Rad Rover & Sondors. Please make it so. Bless you🙏
I have a 35° hill. My juiced hyperscorpion crushes this hill. I'm looking at aniioki a177 pro max. I would like to know your take on the comparison between the two. Please help. Thanks in advance.
please try the new lectric mid motor xpremium on the same hill (If you can get one) I like your videos. thanks
Yes! I'd love to see the XPremium on this hill.
It's a mid drive so it will do just fine.
I’ve been doing lots of research on ebikes and I have no idea which one to choose from 🤦🏻♀️ I have been keeping my eye on the radio flyer l885 because I can ride my kids on it. I still can’t choose 🤦🏻♀️
Question I have on torque rating of mid-drive eBikes: Is that rating the motor itself, as on a test bench or with the chain removed? Or is that the NM when the mid-drive pushes the wheel in the lowest gear (NM of wheel vs ground)
I would like to see the himmway climb the hill
I was having similar issues with my BeeCool Explorer not making it like that but I went and changed these settings for the amp output On the controller it was set to 12 amps from the factory, You can actually set it in the settings up to 20 amps and that will make a difference I know one of your other videos that you said they didn't but I just got mine last week and it made a huge difference. Maybe that your model was earlier and it didn't have that capability or something? Going up steep hills now I am seeing peak wattage of around a 1000.
I have the amp setting set at 30. I think the max of the controller is 22 though. Whatever reason it was not peeking very high that day even at its highest I've only seen about 800
@@CitizenCycle925 I don't know maybe your version of the controller may be an earlier version or something I have no idea. I live in the northeast corner of Georgia we got lots of mountains and hills it does fine with me of course you got to help it up some of the really long ones.
I'm new to e bikes when you are doing videos it would be helpful if the name pops up as you are talking about it.
Surprise that you miss Magicycle. I live in Teton Valley, Idaho. And Magicycle crushes hills out here. Sometimes I have to tackle 2 miles of uphill. I generally do not do that on throttle only to preserve my range.
i may have to ask my dad to bring the magicycle back to town for some further testing. i was in Teton village and Jackson 2 years ago, one of the most fantastic places i have ever been, luck you!!!!
@@CitizenCycle925 Good for your dad!
Was the Ariel Rider a dual hub powered bike?
You are getting close to the Darkside friend.
Mid drive torque cannot be compared to hub drive torque directly, it depends on the gear you're in!
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Ariel Rider x52 speedo said 10mph and the Biktrix said 7mph...???
I think this kind of hill climb test maybe what the internet needs. I thought Rad mini can climb, they said their geared hub motor has good torque, but it seems can’t handle the hill that you are testing on.
It looks like the mid drive climbs even faster when it’s on 1 gear, is it?
Does the mid drive eat up the chain like badly?
Also do you think Fiido L3 can climb that hill? Another channel tested on an alleged 18% hill.
oh boy, not sure the L3 would make that hill, its a tuffy. i have not noticed the mid drive eating up the chain but i don't put a lot of miles on it..
Why not test the Avington Adventure? Curious how it would do. I assume it wouldn't make it.
The Aventure would do ok, but I don't think it would make it. The ones that I encountered in person struggled up the hills. I passed them with a RadMini.
I'm on a budget....and you think with pedal assist that the bikes that didn't make the hill would climb the hill no problem? I'm looking for a bike foe hunting public land and I need something to climb the ridges where I hunt.
Yes if you downshift and pedal then all the bikes would make the hill pretty easily
How do you think the Rad Rover with the Bolton upgraded controller would have done, yay or nay?
Bolton controller upgraded rad would definitely make it!
The bike you gave away would've won , the Magicycle cruiser
If I were Biktrix I’d send you the new Juggernaut XD which is 2000watts & 300NM of torque. 😎
I checked your blue bixtrix on websites they don’t have same kind of your model with mid- hub.
Wow my build rocks!! I could actually speed up big time.. that hill I call speed bump.mid drive rocks try 3k🤣🤣
I want the slowest bike, lowest gears. I am happy with 12 to 15 mph. Thin tires 700X38mm or so.
Comfort, Range, cargo.
everyone has different wants/needs, hope you found one that fits!
Good video but showing the e bikes is give the viewers better information cuz I don’t recognize any of the bikes. Would love to see the bike!
Wait, didn't you have to pedal on the mid drive to make it work? Or was that purely throttle on the mid drive bike? I didn't think mid drive bikes could be ridden with throttle only.
Your mom use throttle all the time
Mid drive is helping you when you paddle , when you have hub motor you hold throttle and it goes
I want to see you take the weakest bike, set the gear to somewhere in the middle, and show us how difficult it is to make it up your hill while using the motor and pedaling too. Set the camera off to the side so we can watch you.
YES PLEASE
Shit yeah, bought the ultra ht from m2sbikes, mid drive 160newton meters, 1000w and my takes just about any hill😁😁😁