Go to surfshark.com/mockrocktalk for 4 extra months of Surfshark! Thanks for watching everyone! Some of _my_ favourite moves in Smash ended up on this list but how about yours, any great ones that I missed? *Main channel:* th-cam.com/users/mockrocktv *Twitter:* twitter.com/MrMockRock *Patreon:* www.patreon.com/mockrock *Twitch:* www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch *Teespring:* teespring.com/stores/mockrock
I was skipping through the sponsorship segment and just happened to notice the Georgian flag as you were scrolling. I'm a big Georgia fanboy, so that was cool.
I gotta say Ness's new up-air at least deserved an honorable mention. The headbutt up-air was good for kills, especially outta double jump but his new U-air as a milti-hit arc allows opponents to get caught by it easier, cover air dodges, and best of all, it can be used as a psuedo dragdown. It does suffer the chance of opponent's falling out of it like a lot of other multi-hits but the sheer UTILITY. you get out of that move is insane.
The only proof you need that Ganon's f smash deserves to be the capstone to this are the reactions to its reveal. Still my favorite part of seeing people reacting to ultimates reveal trailer
I actually remember the exact moment it was discovered bomb was plus on shield on twitter. I think it was during covid? I'm not sure. Either way, I was not happy about the news haha
I get what you mean, but I can't stop laughing because you're kinda saying "I remember exactly when I learned this. But also, I don't know when it was."
@@xolotltolox7626I think that was because he was a last-minute addition and they ended up reusing a lot of animations from other characters to make him
Robin's Levin nair is a reasonable inclusion for sure, but the fact that it's not always available, and also overlaps a good amount with fair, pulled it down a bit for me, if someone put it on their list I'd get it though!
I like nair because it’s faster and has a more horizontal angle. Fair’s a lot more diagonal, which can actually be used for early percent combos, but it’s a bit slower and I honestly prefer nair offstage (and often onstage). Just my personal opinion, Robin’s more of an on-and-off character for me rather than a full main so I’m not quite as experienced with his gameplan
00:37 I'd constutue a new move as having a unique animation & hitbox (including size, shape, damage & knockback values), so any throws that fit that description I think should be eligible
would never have put it over the ten here, but zelda's jab was a great change. being faster than down tilt, if only by a frame, gives it a lot more utility as a close quarters option, and the addition of a rapid jab does a lot for its damage output and ability to pressure shield. the animation fits her personality in this game really well too, it's one of the moves with the most memorable facial expressions in her kit
I disagree with this simply because Zelda's old jab lead to grabs in Smash 4 at most percents, and Zelda had guaranteed kills off of grabs. Also, while it had the most start-up of any Jab in the game, it was extremely disjointed with transcendent hitboxes and had very little end-lag. Zelda's Jab in Ultimate is just ok. It's also not as good at pressuring shileds against faster characters because it has a bit of lag that they can punish. (I do like that you can proc the rapid jab pretty late into the move. It catches people trying to drop shield early really well.)
Zelda Old Jab was still very good tho. It was a weirdly good Anti-Air since it had such a crazy disjoint and was pretty big by jab standards. I think it works good on Ultimate Zelda to have the rapid jab but in the other games when she was slower it worked pretty well on her kit
Great vid as ever, mockrock. Kinda wild how it took until ultimate for any version of mario to get a stomp of some kind, considering that's been his primary way of dealing with enemies since day freaking one of super mario bros, but doc's stomp certainly made up for lost time big time.
I think some of Cloud’s sword hit boxes also do slightly more damage towards the tip. Not as drastic as the difference between Sephiroth’s sword hit boxes, but you do get a slight reward for good spacing.
@ this same case can be applied to marth, but what sets those two apart from ganondorf is the way these attacks are animated. Marth and cloud have the smooth slicing motion seen in sword swipes, give or take some weight between the two. On the other end, ganondorfs swings feel like he’s wielding a front heavy weapon and its aiming to cleave you if it hits
I get the feeling as to Ness up air deserves an honorable mention here. While old ness’s up air which functioned more like Lucas’s one may which was already pretty good, access to drag downs and a really good juggling tool (and even a kill option at rather low percents) gave Ness such a good move (also his psi magnet gaining a hitbox and same with yo-yo receiving a start up hitbox)
Sad we didn't see updated stuff for characters like Sonic. There were definitely a few that really should have gone updated moves overall as well as even something like young link's final smash just being a clone of a clone's move.
I’m still confused why they haven’t drawn more from Sonic Battle. Somewhat underrated fighting game, but the move animations are all very cool and could easily be a reference to revamp some of Sonic’s kit. Like instead of having two spin dashes, why not make one based on his Shot special from Battle? Side B sounds most appropriate for the move to be mapped to. Tl;dr Sonic’s kit is kinda bland and it’s a shame most of his kit is based on Virtua Fighter rather than source material.
ice climbers having a strong up air just feels way more sense. the main thing you do in their game is whack their hammer over their head at ice blocks, their main move in their game was an up air, how did we not get a similar move until ultimate?
I think Icies’ up air is theoretically one of the best aerials in the game. It does 16%, the effective disjoint when used out of a jump is huge, and it has 155 knockback scaling for no good reason. It hits as hard as their smash attacks at 100%.
Appreciated the Kirby dash attack mention, though it absolutely deserved to be on this list. It's an essential part of Kirby's kit; he went from having no dash attack to a reliable burst option that is a great combo ender, 2 framer, and kill option. Very impactful!
glad Link's bomb got a mention - it legitimately changes the character so fundamentally that as a Link main I was sad to not have remote bombs in TOTK because I thought it meant they would be less likely to show up in a future Smash game. literally gives him a ledgetrapping tool, a combo tool, and an entirely new RECOVERY.
I really appreciate you talking about my favorite down air of all time on my favorite character of all time (that being Dr. Mario). You summed it up perfectly. Dr. Mario feels like he wants to hurt people and I love it. XD
I'm surprised G&W's fair came out over up air. G&W's up air is by far the best up air in the game for being the easiest juggling tool in the game. And even though it doesn't kill like the old toot toot does, a non negligible number of characters straight up take 100% from just up air once they're launched in the sky.
A couple things for me: a) It's a bit sketchy whether it actually counts as a "new move" considering it's the same source material. b) Losing the ability to kill off the top in the air like that isn't trivial at all, he'd actually still be able to do dthrow -> uair kill confirms on some characters if it hadn't been changed c) As annoying as it is, those colossal juggles opponents just can't get down from don't happen constantly in practice. They _can,_ sure, but whenever I need to find a clip of G&W uair looking REALLY good, it often actually takes quite a bit of digging through vods to find. The most common outcome by far is that he'll hit you with a handful of them, maybe finish it off with a Fire for a bit extra, and then things reset. None of that makes it bad by any means, don't get me wrong lol, but I do think the tradeoff is harsher than with fair.
19:04 d Smash is actually a great edge-guarding tool: a punish after baiting getup attack with fire breath and shielding it. So u wanna use it rarely midstage to keep the move fresh. but its an important move.
I think I'd like Ike's Upair more if it was reversed. It currently starts infront of Ike and is swung behind him. Almost every new swordfighter in the game has an upair like this so if Ike did a more overhead swing that starts from behind him it would make it stand out a bit more
That's actually a pretty solid idea! I've advocated for Corrin to have a move like that in the past since some of their Critical animations follow this kind of arc but it'd make a lot of sense for Ike as well
Really good video. Like all the picks. For fun, additional thoughts: - Doc Dair: Probably one of my favorite move swaps and his biggest buff. (I remember hearing they added it cause Bill Trinen requested a Spike for Doc, don't quote me on that) - Luigi Up-Tilt: A bit of a weird change, I think I liked the old one more, but he's right that it had overlap with Up-Smash, so take or leave. - Wario F-Tilt: Another interesting replacement, but I like it. One of the few cases of just making a slow move, bigger working out. - Ike Up-Air: Similar story with Luigi, but I much prefer this over the old one. It feels way better to use and land. - Icies Up-Air: Same as Ike. Pretty disappointed HDR revert those two moves, it really feels like they just did it cause that's how they were in PM. - Wolf DA: Probably prefer the old one's animation (funny how they reused Sonic's Running into a Wall animation for it :p), but the function is nice. - G&W Fair: I'm in the camp that the old one in Ult's environment would have been better. With the normal landing lag reduction it would have been -4 which is still really good. (Less specific timing needed and the opponent can't swat it away) But the new one is still a fun move and considering how good G&W is, it's probably for the better he doesn't have have a Fair in many cases. lol - Ganon Doriyah: Basically nailed everything. Just like with Wario, just making a slow move bigger was enough. I hope this move sticks around.
It’s not a new move but oh my god new Pokemon switch is my favorite move change in ultimate It let Pokemon trainer function and made him one of my favorite characters to play
15:50 while it is true that there are no real follow ups after suplex, the move still puts your opponent directly under the platform at 0. This sets up for a tech chase or a reset that forces your opponent to guess if they have to shield or not. Also, it puts your opponent at the perfect percent to get the maximum reward (usually a kill) off of both weak and strong nair, which is an incredibly valuable tool because brawler has very few options to get frame advantage until that percent.
Not to mention it directly synchronizes with dash attack at zero because your opponent will also be in the window for dash attack thrupper which does even more damage than suplex
9:04 this is coming from a Sonic main, but I am glad that they gave wario the shoulder bash for his running attack. The shoulder bash was his side Smash in Brawl but then they replaced it with that uppercut in Smash 4 but he never had a shoulder bash in that game so any remnant of the wario Land games besides I guess his alts was just not in the game at all so I'm glad as a running attack they gave in the shoulder bash bringing back his main killer move from the wario Land games. And by doing so they still kept that side smash uppercut anyway so he would still have the longer range in his side smash so I think it worked out pretty well
The first move I thought of when going into this video was Luigi's grab. It's quite fast for a teather, leaves a projectile if used off-stage, and isn't too commital when being used. It's especially useful when considering that grabs overall in Ultimate are slightly worse than other games in the series.
Wake up yall, new MockRock content Love the list! Also this doesn't come up often, but your last choice in the video can two-frame as well. Obviously it's hard to time it but it is so rewarding if you hit it.
Some satisfying moments come from clueless opponents hanging onto the ledge not knowing the f-smash can hit their ledge hang. Especially when they let go and have to regrab
I think Ness’ up air is a good choice too, it’s such an important combo tool for him and it’s pretty strong at killing too (I haven’t actually played much of the previous games but if it was similar to Lucas’ headbutt then I feel confident in saying the new one is better)
Hearing someone call Wolfs Dash attack the best in the game is funny to me, cause when I play chars with a good crouch I just crouch somewhere and watch him laser over me and then try to dash attack me which also doesnt hit that low to the ground unless he starts it right next to me. So then their only options are baiting out my reaction to his approach or jump n-air land on me xD Wolf without his laser and dash attack really crumbles as a character.
I largely agree with these takes, but there’s several things I want to mention and some slight and more drastic design changes I’d make to improve some of these moves better or change them for the better of the character. ~ To make Pikachu's neutral aerial more in tune with its archetype and be more accurate to its game of origin, we're gonna make it a single, relatively strong hit that paralyzes opponents before sending them upwards. And because of that we're renaming it Thunder Wave. Now Pikachu actually has to work for combos but can now use the paralyze effect to set up an entire multitude of different follow-ups by attacking from different angles, making it a more interesting combo starter after all. Also remember female Pikachu are playable now. ~ Nothing to replace Doc's down aerial, just wanna say that I love how it separates Doc more from Mario. Personally I would change the down aerial of every single main _Mario_ character plus Yoshi and Wario to be the Ground Pound, and Doc is one of three characters (the others being Bowser Jr. and Piranha Plant) that I wouldn't change. As for that jab at Doc being mean, I mean hey, his opponents are viruses and eliminating viruses is what he does best. ~ I'd keep the new up tilt for Luigi, the application is still the same but I'd change the animation to be an upwards hammer swing, basically being the Hammer Uppercut from _Mario & Luigi: Dream Team's_ Giant Battles. A bit more endlag would need to be added, but it's not like that'd completely break its use. Make more sense than that pathetic uppercut he actually does.
Can you make a video we’re you make a move set for a character that isn’t a playable character also I find it funny that most if not all the smash 64 characters have that nair or maybe a video on the most nerfed characters or an overview video on Bayaneta also also did peach and Greninja trade down tilts neat
Roy's double edge dance deserves a mention. A frame 9 move that beats spot dodge, shield some times, and kills really early. Compared to the original, it is significantly more consistent and doesn't require timed inputs. Marth and lucina wasn't much of an improvement as they lost combo potential and marth's used to be easier to tipper while lucina still doesn't get much out of it dispite the new version being significantly slower.
0:40 Is this part of the intro new (Pit maybe? Right after Link and before Dark Pit), or has it been there before? I don't remember it sounding like that
Ive always found it weird how uncommon moves being plus on block were in smash concidering how common they were in Street Fighter. There almost every character has a move thats plus on block
Tbf if next smash game ganondorf uses the same f-smash it should use the club he gets in his boss fight, as well as a much needed overhaul but the doriah is still great
I knew Ike up air would be on here lol. I do miss the helicopter aesthetically, but there is no doubt that I use Ult up air way more. In general I would say Ike used to be more about killing horizontally than vertically, though my view on this is undoubtedly colored by playing a lot of PM Ike, which I know isn't applicable for this video.
i think palutena’s explosive flame should’ve been added at least as an HM, it replaced a reflector that should’ve doubled as her counter from the very beginning and gives her such a great spacing tool
Explosive Flame technically already existed in Smash 4 as a Custom Move though, not something I really clarified in the video but I personally don't count it
Docs dair in melee is like a drill yeah and you show the combo stuff with the smash 4 iteration But in melee even tho its basically identical to smash4, you get a lot of mileage off of just throwing out full hop dairs Its a lot to do with it being stupidly disjointed but also cause all the foxes are spamming full hop nair. Theres probably less of that in sm4sh and also fox is less centralizing even if he has full hop nair there
God i wish i got into smash ultimate when it came out. I was always on my wii u in the old smash 4 days, but i didnt get ultimate until after i got into highschool.
It’s inevitable that Dr. Mario will be cut from the roster if they choose to make another Smash Bros (which would bum me a bit since he’s one of my favorite characters to play), but I would love it if they replaced Mario’s current down-air with Doc’s as a tribute to him. Plus, it still fits either Mario regardless of who has it. Might even make me play the original one more since the current Tornado down-air takes some getting used to playing the doctor for so long.
The only problem with Ganon's new smashes is that he just upstages Ike. They have virtually the same animations (up smash being the most similar, down smash being the least), especially during the active parts of the moves, and, if not the same hitboxes, then extremely similar hitboxes. And Ike had them first, but Ganon gets less startup and less endlag. Totally uncalled for - why can't Ike's smashes be at least as good as Ganon's if they're going to be basically the same move anyway and he had them first? It's ridiculous. I use Ganon's up and forward smashes often enough and basically never do smash attacks with Ike. It's outrageous! It's unfair!
Go to surfshark.com/mockrocktalk for 4 extra months of Surfshark!
Thanks for watching everyone! Some of _my_ favourite moves in Smash ended up on this list but how about yours, any great ones that I missed?
*Main channel:* th-cam.com/users/mockrocktv
*Twitter:* twitter.com/MrMockRock
*Patreon:* www.patreon.com/mockrock
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was that clairen in the intro?
I was skipping through the sponsorship segment and just happened to notice the Georgian flag as you were scrolling. I'm a big Georgia fanboy, so that was cool.
@@N3OJOyTOKYO It was, yep!
@@MockRockTalkwhat’s teespring?
I gotta say Ness's new up-air at least deserved an honorable mention. The headbutt up-air was good for kills, especially outta double jump but his new U-air as a milti-hit arc allows opponents to get caught by it easier, cover air dodges, and best of all, it can be used as a psuedo dragdown. It does suffer the chance of opponent's falling out of it like a lot of other multi-hits but the sheer UTILITY. you get out of that move is insane.
The only proof you need that Ganon's f smash deserves to be the capstone to this are the reactions to its reveal. Still my favorite part of seeing people reacting to ultimates reveal trailer
@@AlmightySock "Give him a sword!"
"SWORD! SWORD! USE THE S-YEAHHHHHH!"
Nothing beats that resounding *"DORYAHH!"*
DORIYAH!!!
I actually remember the exact moment it was discovered bomb was plus on shield on twitter. I think it was during covid? I'm not sure. Either way, I was not happy about the news haha
That's something I did not know about the bomb-
I get what you mean, but I can't stop laughing because you're kinda saying "I remember exactly when I learned this. But also, I don't know when it was."
@@CSmyth-😂😂😂
I never realized that Peach and Greninja basically traded Down Tilts from 4 to Ultimate
Neither do I
I've never seen Brawl Wolf's dash attack until now.
Watching this made me finally realise they weren't just DACUSing the whole time, that actually was the dash attack.
Yeah, Brawl wolf is probably the worst animated character in the series
All of his moves are just bizzare and look super janky
@@xolotltolox7626I think that was because he was a last-minute addition and they ended up reusing a lot of animations from other characters to make him
@@xolotltolox7626Brawl Wolf's weird ass idle animation is still in Ultimate if he's holding an item
I’d like to bring up Robin getting a Levin Sword version of nair. Took what was Robin’s worst airial in Smash for into easily their best move.
Robin's Levin nair is a reasonable inclusion for sure, but the fact that it's not always available, and also overlaps a good amount with fair, pulled it down a bit for me, if someone put it on their list I'd get it though!
I like nair because it’s faster and has a more horizontal angle. Fair’s a lot more diagonal, which can actually be used for early percent combos, but it’s a bit slower and I honestly prefer nair offstage (and often onstage). Just my personal opinion, Robin’s more of an on-and-off character for me rather than a full main so I’m not quite as experienced with his gameplan
I do still kinda wish Robin still had a way to switch to bronze midair but to be fair the situations where you actually want to do that are very niche
Levin upair is their best move
19:04 today i learned just how much the startup of Bowser's new down smash is recycled from his old one 😮
Same
18:27 Note the bomb does NOT explode on contact with the opponent. It explodes on contact with the floor, or after a certain period of time.
00:37 I'd constutue a new move as having a unique animation & hitbox (including size, shape, damage & knockback values), so any throws that fit that description I think should be eligible
would never have put it over the ten here, but zelda's jab was a great change. being faster than down tilt, if only by a frame, gives it a lot more utility as a close quarters option, and the addition of a rapid jab does a lot for its damage output and ability to pressure shield. the animation fits her personality in this game really well too, it's one of the moves with the most memorable facial expressions in her kit
I disagree with this simply because Zelda's old jab lead to grabs in Smash 4 at most percents, and Zelda had guaranteed kills off of grabs. Also, while it had the most start-up of any Jab in the game, it was extremely disjointed with transcendent hitboxes and had very little end-lag.
Zelda's Jab in Ultimate is just ok. It's also not as good at pressuring shileds against faster characters because it has a bit of lag that they can punish. (I do like that you can proc the rapid jab pretty late into the move. It catches people trying to drop shield early really well.)
Zelda Old Jab was still very good tho. It was a weirdly good Anti-Air since it had such a crazy disjoint and was pretty big by jab standards. I think it works good on Ultimate Zelda to have the rapid jab but in the other games when she was slower it worked pretty well on her kit
Great vid as ever, mockrock.
Kinda wild how it took until ultimate for any version of mario to get a stomp of some kind, considering that's been his primary way of dealing with enemies since day freaking one of super mario bros, but doc's stomp certainly made up for lost time big time.
They should make Mario’s footstools do a mild bit of damage.
Actually, that would be kind of a funny mod.
Ultimate Ganondorfs smash attacks may as well be axe swings. Lethal at the front, sour by the hilt.
I think some of Cloud’s sword hit boxes also do slightly more damage towards the tip. Not as drastic as the difference between Sephiroth’s sword hit boxes, but you do get a slight reward for good spacing.
@ this same case can be applied to marth, but what sets those two apart from ganondorf is the way these attacks are animated. Marth and cloud have the smooth slicing motion seen in sword swipes, give or take some weight between the two. On the other end, ganondorfs swings feel like he’s wielding a front heavy weapon and its aiming to cleave you if it hits
Something else about Game and Watch's bomb, I've seen players use the explosion to hide what their next move will be.
The -poor- flat man's Trishula YRC.
Gotta love Ganondorf's Doriyah, so much so it became a meme.😆
Fun fact, Dr. Mario down air in Ultimate was the first spike I ever landed. That's because I sucked offstage back in my Brawl and Smash 4 days.
I relate to you, for the first couple of months playing I didn’t know what a spike was, until I accidently landing Doc’s Dair offstage.
Little surprised you went with Luigi Up Tilt instead of Luigi Zair. That move is a menace.
I guess thats more of a new move entirely instead of a replacement. That move is pretty busted thats true
I don’t that move can be used here since it didn’t replace a pre-existing move.
@@benross9174 You could say Luigi's grab as a whole, which would include the Zair, because man, that move is not okay...
I get the feeling as to Ness up air deserves an honorable mention here. While old ness’s up air which functioned more like Lucas’s one may which was already pretty good, access to drag downs and a really good juggling tool (and even a kill option at rather low percents) gave Ness such a good move (also his psi magnet gaining a hitbox and same with yo-yo receiving a start up hitbox)
I figured Claren in the intro would only be for rivals content, well that’s a fun change
Sad we didn't see updated stuff for characters like Sonic. There were definitely a few that really should have gone updated moves overall as well as even something like young link's final smash just being a clone of a clone's move.
I’m still confused why they haven’t drawn more from Sonic Battle. Somewhat underrated fighting game, but the move animations are all very cool and could easily be a reference to revamp some of Sonic’s kit. Like instead of having two spin dashes, why not make one based on his Shot special from Battle? Side B sounds most appropriate for the move to be mapped to.
Tl;dr Sonic’s kit is kinda bland and it’s a shame most of his kit is based on Virtua Fighter rather than source material.
ice climbers having a strong up air just feels way more sense. the main thing you do in their game is whack their hammer over their head at ice blocks, their main move in their game was an up air, how did we not get a similar move until ultimate?
yoshi egg toss bounce and or down b going through platforms as a choice are underrated and not mentioning Yoshi is wild
Glad to see Wario's booty smack on this list. That move's animation is just so funny ro me.
10:46 I hate that so much! It deserves another active frame.
20:26 Bruh, that Forward Smash vs Disable interaction 😂
17:40 can I just say thank you. It’s so weird how often people think that a move having counter play means it’s bad.
I think Icies’ up air is theoretically one of the best aerials in the game. It does 16%, the effective disjoint when used out of a jump is huge, and it has 155 knockback scaling for no good reason. It hits as hard as their smash attacks at 100%.
you could probably win a match as icies only with up air its so good in every way
i cant wait for the sequel video "top 10 moves NOT added to smash ultimate"
He kinda already did this lol, “Top ten moves that were cut from Ultimate”
You should do a video about good moves on bad characters
Yes!
I like this idea
Get ready to see Little Mac ftilt and Ganondorf uair on that list, as well as possibly Zelda’s dair or down B, and Plant’s neutral B.
Appreciated the Kirby dash attack mention, though it absolutely deserved to be on this list. It's an essential part of Kirby's kit; he went from having no dash attack to a reliable burst option that is a great combo ender, 2 framer, and kill option. Very impactful!
I miss when Captain Falcon's up-tilt used to 2-frame
glad Link's bomb got a mention - it legitimately changes the character so fundamentally that as a Link main I was sad to not have remote bombs in TOTK because I thought it meant they would be less likely to show up in a future Smash game. literally gives him a ledgetrapping tool, a combo tool, and an entirely new RECOVERY.
I know it's not consequential, but Pit's new rapid jab is *chef's kiss*
I really appreciate you talking about my favorite down air of all time on my favorite character of all time (that being Dr. Mario). You summed it up perfectly. Dr. Mario feels like he wants to hurt people and I love it. XD
4:29 doctor mario with old down air felt so off
Big fan of the newer Clairen silhouette in the Intro to get Rivals some representation :)
Watch when Mockrock lists Entrance animations
I'm surprised G&W's fair came out over up air. G&W's up air is by far the best up air in the game for being the easiest juggling tool in the game. And even though it doesn't kill like the old toot toot does, a non negligible number of characters straight up take 100% from just up air once they're launched in the sky.
A couple things for me:
a) It's a bit sketchy whether it actually counts as a "new move" considering it's the same source material.
b) Losing the ability to kill off the top in the air like that isn't trivial at all, he'd actually still be able to do dthrow -> uair kill confirms on some characters if it hadn't been changed
c) As annoying as it is, those colossal juggles opponents just can't get down from don't happen constantly in practice. They _can,_ sure, but whenever I need to find a clip of G&W uair looking REALLY good, it often actually takes quite a bit of digging through vods to find. The most common outcome by far is that he'll hit you with a handful of them, maybe finish it off with a Fire for a bit extra, and then things reset. None of that makes it bad by any means, don't get me wrong lol, but I do think the tradeoff is harsher than with fair.
0:42 what a sick intro dude, i was surprised u hadnt more subs
19:04 d Smash is actually a great edge-guarding tool: a punish after baiting getup attack with fire breath and shielding it. So u wanna use it rarely midstage to keep the move fresh. but its an important move.
I think I'd like Ike's Upair more if it was reversed. It currently starts infront of Ike and is swung behind him. Almost every new swordfighter in the game has an upair like this so if Ike did a more overhead swing that starts from behind him it would make it stand out a bit more
That's actually a pretty solid idea! I've advocated for Corrin to have a move like that in the past since some of their Critical animations follow this kind of arc but it'd make a lot of sense for Ike as well
2:00 The Meat 'n Potatoes Begin
3:53 "top player" btw
Really good video.
Like all the picks.
For fun, additional thoughts:
- Doc Dair: Probably one of my favorite move swaps and his biggest buff. (I remember hearing they added it cause Bill Trinen requested a Spike for Doc, don't quote me on that)
- Luigi Up-Tilt: A bit of a weird change, I think I liked the old one more, but he's right that it had overlap with Up-Smash, so take or leave.
- Wario F-Tilt: Another interesting replacement, but I like it. One of the few cases of just making a slow move, bigger working out.
- Ike Up-Air: Similar story with Luigi, but I much prefer this over the old one. It feels way better to use and land.
- Icies Up-Air: Same as Ike. Pretty disappointed HDR revert those two moves, it really feels like they just did it cause that's how they were in PM.
- Wolf DA: Probably prefer the old one's animation (funny how they reused Sonic's Running into a Wall animation for it :p), but the function is nice.
- G&W Fair: I'm in the camp that the old one in Ult's environment would have been better. With the normal landing lag reduction it would have been -4 which is still really good. (Less specific timing needed and the opponent can't swat it away) But the new one is still a fun move and considering how good G&W is, it's probably for the better he doesn't have have a Fair in many cases. lol
- Ganon Doriyah: Basically nailed everything. Just like with Wario, just making a slow move bigger was enough. I hope this move sticks around.
It’s not a new move but oh my god new Pokemon switch is my favorite move change in ultimate
It let Pokemon trainer function and made him one of my favorite characters to play
15:50 while it is true that there are no real follow ups after suplex, the move still puts your opponent directly under the platform at 0. This sets up for a tech chase or a reset that forces your opponent to guess if they have to shield or not. Also, it puts your opponent at the perfect percent to get the maximum reward (usually a kill) off of both weak and strong nair, which is an incredibly valuable tool because brawler has very few options to get frame advantage until that percent.
Not to mention it directly synchronizes with dash attack at zero because your opponent will also be in the window for dash attack thrupper which does even more damage than suplex
One thing i learned about bomb is that u can use it to fill bucket on gaw
9:04 this is coming from a Sonic main, but I am glad that they gave wario the shoulder bash for his running attack. The shoulder bash was his side Smash in Brawl but then they replaced it with that uppercut in Smash 4 but he never had a shoulder bash in that game so any remnant of the wario Land games besides I guess his alts was just not in the game at all so I'm glad as a running attack they gave in the shoulder bash bringing back his main killer move from the wario Land games. And by doing so they still kept that side smash uppercut anyway so he would still have the longer range in his side smash so I think it worked out pretty well
Yo, new opening logo. Sounded differently so I had to actually roll back to see it. I'm about it.
Wow, I didn't realize that Pikachu's nair was new in Ultimate.
I also like Pit's new up tilt
im surprised luigies zair didn't make the cut. or luigi grab in general, that thing is nuts
as a fellow clairen main, gotta lover her staying in the intro! also yeah pika nair being first fits lol.
The first move I thought of when going into this video was Luigi's grab. It's quite fast for a teather, leaves a projectile if used off-stage, and isn't too commital when being used. It's especially useful when considering that grabs overall in Ultimate are slightly worse than other games in the series.
Surely Zelda’s down b had the most insane up grade. From a crap kill option to a versatile tool that can be used in a plethora of ways
I’m surprised Yoshi’s f-tilt wasn’t on here
Luigi’s new “tether” grab = death sentence.
Wake up yall, new MockRock content
Love the list! Also this doesn't come up often, but your last choice in the video can two-frame as well. Obviously it's hard to time it but it is so rewarding if you hit it.
Some satisfying moments come from clueless opponents hanging onto the ledge not knowing the f-smash can hit their ledge hang.
Especially when they let go and have to regrab
Man i love the Italian man of medicine
I feel that hes so much more fun than regular mario
and his down air plays a HUGE part in that
Oh yeah also wario f tilt is one of the most satisfying moves in the game
I think Ness’ up air is a good choice too, it’s such an important combo tool for him and it’s pretty strong at killing too (I haven’t actually played much of the previous games but if it was similar to Lucas’ headbutt then I feel confident in saying the new one is better)
Gnw’s new forward air is honestly so cool
Hearing someone call Wolfs Dash attack the best in the game is funny to me, cause when I play chars with a good crouch I just crouch somewhere and watch him laser over me and then try to dash attack me which also doesnt hit that low to the ground unless he starts it right next to me. So then their only options are baiting out my reaction to his approach or jump n-air land on me xD
Wolf without his laser and dash attack really crumbles as a character.
Cool to see Clairen added to the intro to replace sylvanos' absence!
I largely agree with these takes, but there’s several things I want to mention and some slight and more drastic design changes I’d make to improve some of these moves better or change them for the better of the character.
~ To make Pikachu's neutral aerial more in tune with its archetype and be more accurate to its game of origin, we're gonna make it a single, relatively strong hit that paralyzes opponents before sending them upwards. And because of that we're renaming it Thunder Wave. Now Pikachu actually has to work for combos but can now use the paralyze effect to set up an entire multitude of different follow-ups by attacking from different angles, making it a more interesting combo starter after all.
Also remember female Pikachu are playable now.
~ Nothing to replace Doc's down aerial, just wanna say that I love how it separates Doc more from Mario. Personally I would change the down aerial of every single main _Mario_ character plus Yoshi and Wario to be the Ground Pound, and Doc is one of three characters (the others being Bowser Jr. and Piranha Plant) that I wouldn't change. As for that jab at Doc being mean, I mean hey, his opponents are viruses and eliminating viruses is what he does best.
~ I'd keep the new up tilt for Luigi, the application is still the same but I'd change the animation to be an upwards hammer swing, basically being the Hammer Uppercut from _Mario & Luigi: Dream Team's_ Giant Battles. A bit more endlag would need to be added, but it's not like that'd completely break its use. Make more sense than that pathetic uppercut he actually does.
7:49 Waluigi confirmed
I was bouta comment about that lmao
Can you make a video we’re you make a move set for a character that isn’t a playable character also I find it funny that most if not all the smash 64 characters have that nair or maybe a video on the most nerfed characters or an overview video on Bayaneta also also did peach and Greninja trade down tilts neat
Roy's double edge dance deserves a mention. A frame 9 move that beats spot dodge, shield some times, and kills really early. Compared to the original, it is significantly more consistent and doesn't require timed inputs.
Marth and lucina wasn't much of an improvement as they lost combo potential and marth's used to be easier to tipper while lucina still doesn't get much out of it dispite the new version being significantly slower.
I always called the card swipe “CUT!” Because I thought M&G holds a film director clapper.
I think it would be awesome to do some research on rivals 1 and do these kind of comparison videos for rivals 2 in the future
Always love watching ur content mr mockrock
Yay another MockRock Video
0:40 Is this part of the intro new (Pit maybe? Right after Link and before Dark Pit), or has it been there before? I don't remember it sounding like that
It's Clairen from Rivals 2.
@ Cool! I still haven't played Rivals 2 so I wouldn't have known that.
Ive never see dr's smash 4 down air until today i thought the clip was of modded gameplay for a second
Ive always found it weird how uncommon moves being plus on block were in smash concidering how common they were in Street Fighter. There almost every character has a move thats plus on block
Tbf if next smash game ganondorf uses the same f-smash it should use the club he gets in his boss fight, as well as a much needed overhaul but the doriah is still great
i didn't even know that _was_ wolf's dash attack in brawl 💀
Headache maker was hype though as a spike though.
I knew Ike up air would be on here lol. I do miss the helicopter aesthetically, but there is no doubt that I use Ult up air way more. In general I would say Ike used to be more about killing horizontally than vertically, though my view on this is undoubtedly colored by playing a lot of PM Ike, which I know isn't applicable for this video.
Shocked that Palu Side B didn't come up here
i think palutena’s explosive flame should’ve been added at least as an HM, it replaced a reflector that should’ve doubled as her counter from the very beginning and gives her such a great spacing tool
Explosive Flame technically already existed in Smash 4 as a Custom Move though, not something I really clarified in the video but I personally don't count it
The YT Recap told me I was in the top 0.3% of viewers on this channel, something I am very proud of 😂
Docs dair in melee is like a drill yeah and you show the combo stuff with the smash 4 iteration
But in melee even tho its basically identical to smash4, you get a lot of mileage off of just throwing out full hop dairs
Its a lot to do with it being stupidly disjointed but also cause all the foxes are spamming full hop nair. Theres probably less of that in sm4sh and also fox is less centralizing even if he has full hop nair there
Luigi uptilt goes against the rules you set in place
God i wish i got into smash ultimate when it came out. I was always on my wii u in the old smash 4 days, but i didnt get ultimate until after i got into highschool.
It’s inevitable that Dr. Mario will be cut from the roster if they choose to make another Smash Bros (which would bum me a bit since he’s one of my favorite characters to play), but I would love it if they replaced Mario’s current down-air with Doc’s as a tribute to him.
Plus, it still fits either Mario regardless of who has it. Might even make me play the original one more since the current Tornado down-air takes some getting used to playing the doctor for so long.
Remember when Squirtle’s Forward Smash in Brawl had Super Armor?
Yeah, they removed that in Ultimate.
Dr. Mario isn't mario, he's his brother
always shit my pants in anger dying to doryaa at 50% last stock
Surprised palus special moves changing from customs didn’t make the list
Doc down-air into up-b is the funniest combo in the game.
Would love the opposite of this, top 10 worst moves that were added. Saw Falcon’s new fsmash in the beginning and I just said to myself, why lmao
TLink’s new FSmash definitely belongs there too
There would still be a good move. Monado arts.
3:00 Whats the song here? Sounds extremely familiar but I can't put my finger on it.
Shivre City from Pokemon Unite
@@Kiteminu Ah, I feel silly for not recognizing it sooner. Been years since I played it, banger song.
6:42 No, that's wrong. I can clearly see it.
I could do without luigis new up tilt
The only problem with Ganon's new smashes is that he just upstages Ike. They have virtually the same animations (up smash being the most similar, down smash being the least), especially during the active parts of the moves, and, if not the same hitboxes, then extremely similar hitboxes. And Ike had them first, but Ganon gets less startup and less endlag. Totally uncalled for - why can't Ike's smashes be at least as good as Ganon's if they're going to be basically the same move anyway and he had them first? It's ridiculous. I use Ganon's up and forward smashes often enough and basically never do smash attacks with Ike. It's outrageous! It's unfair!
ryu/ken pjab lowkey should be on here
That huge sword should’ve been an obtainable item in botw lol
they basically took sm4sh mario's up tilt and gave it to luigi
robin Levin nair my beloved
It's good, don't get me wrong, but I feel like if they didn't get it Robin players would just kinda keep on trucking with fair like usual lol
I’ll never forgive the smash team for removing the credit card and the old parachute nair