You got to remember a catastrophic event happened in Valaryia. It is EXTREMELY plausible that items from someones armory were left behind by fleeing people.
I feel like the vision Aeron is shown is firmly under the control of Euron, who appears in it. It seems like Euron knows how to control others' visions via the shade of the evening. So the woman in the vision might be what Euron considers his ideal mate, not necessarily a real person at this point. It's who he envisions as his queen.
good point, imo he's gonna get it and it's gonna be Cersei, Euron is too much of a fruitcake for Dany to consider him an actual ally, and she is too compassionate to find fun in that sadistic image of the 2 remaining factions fighting for westeros (which are them? one i believe will be siding with the young griff), at least yet.
That "were you praying i would choose you or pass you by" is particularly f*cked up.... Aeron could have been hoping Euron choose him so Urri wasnt picked. Kind of sacrificing himself to protect his brother.
This is really great, you should totally do more of these Winds of Winter discussion/ speculation videos. There is sooooo much meat in all of the released chapters.
In your discussion of the image of the woman having dwarves capering around her, male and female, you seem to assume it's only two dwarves. I don't think so. Stannis, Danny, Cerce, Little Finger, Euron, Aegon, Dorne and perhaps even Sansa & Jon are all still players in the game at the end of the 5th book. I think the imagery is the same as in Dany's vision: the woman is Westeros and the dwarves are those fighting & forming odd alliances to win control of the continent.
G.R.R.M. has miniatures for all his characters. He also ordered a Melisandre figure which was pale, hence the white fire. Shadow magic and white fire. Not sure why she would work with Euron though.
The Iron Wood. It grows in Westeros too, and the whole Telltale Game is all about House Forrester that takes care of the Iron Wood. They're the only ones who can burn it too, and it creates a strange blue flame when burning.
I got two issues with it as Cersei...first and most important is that she has done so much to prove herself Tywin's heir. She is making moves to be the one in power...not standing behind the power again. Secondly...she would have been golden fire or yellow fire if it was related to her hair.
When Euron says, "Your God will come for you, some God at least." This is most telling as regards to his disposition toward religion. Believing that there are Gods or some power, but at the same time believing that all religious concepts of God are false is what it means to be Agnostic. Agnos is greek for Unknown or Unknowable. Euron isn't religious, but he believes that there are spiritual powers that have sway over the world. To round up holy-men and sacrifice them, is a brutal cleansing of false paths. What purpose this holds? Guess we will have to wait and see, but to sacrifice and torture these priests is not beyond the scope of Euron's behavior thus far.
Perhaps he believed he can control them? I.like the idea that Euron is fulfilling the role of some anti-Azhor Ahai, an anti-christ figure who has come to ensure The Long Night overtakes the entire world.
I see that no one has mentioned that Euron had the pregnant girl tied next to Aeron; I don't think that's just random cruelty, if he's being so careful with his choice of sacrifices, could this mean that he's sacrificing King's blood too?
You're almost there brother. And good on you for not watching spoilery videos. GRRM is a better storyteller than any TH-camr (No offense, Q, you're my dude). Might as well finish and then indulge on the plethora of material online. Starting with all of IdeasOfIceAndFire's videos first of course :) lol
You can continue with the tales of Dunk and Egg, World of Ice and Fire and the Rogue Prince. I enjoyed my second read of ASOIAF as much as my first. I am currently filling the void with Lovecraft.
The Order of the Green hand has a theory that tree with black bark is the tree with blue leaves used to make the strangler and the shade of the evening and it is the opposite of the Wierwood, white bark and red leaves, which the children feed to Bran to strengthen his Greenseer ability.
Don’t think so, Dany has a similar vision herself. The woman is Westeros and the dwarves are the squabbling high lords destroying the country with their games
Each religion has some form of majik background. The red God is fire and shadow. The old gods are Druid esk majik. The faceless is dark majik focused on death. I think the seven would represent those incapable of majik. The drowned god would be focused on the sea. With a hint of resurrection. I think it kind of fits. And religion in our world is meant to explain the unexplained, so why wouldn't it be the same in their world?! Just a thought.
I thought about Cersei as well, but in Danys visions they show her dwars rapping a woman as a metaphor for the 5 kings and Westereos, why not a metaphor now about Euron and Cersei laughing at the chaos of the world.
That feeling about door hinges is so real man. Martin really did a genuinely great job of conveying the horror of something like that happening to you by straight up giving his audience second hand PTSD.
you guys are leaning toward it being Dany by Euron's side. Why cant it be Cersei? The vision is of Euron on the Iron Throne after all and if the mysterious woman. is laughing with him at these broken figures ....that sounds like Cersei type of evil.
i doubt it. Euron is smart enough to know that house Lannister is on the verge of collapse and a wildcard like Cersei is too much of a liability. He is also too caught up in his prophecies/god complex to settle for anything less than dragons. I predict he will marry Dany or die in the attempt. (leaning towards latter) but it wouldnt be the first time i was wrong so who knows!
I was thinking she might be turned into a zombie by Qyburn, but that's completly crackpot. More likely, Cersei might be one of the female dwarfs in the vision instead because she is just fucking up Westeros so majorly.
j ding Perhaps the weapons of the Others, but not dragon fire. I think the armour could withstand dragon fire better than normal armour, but it wouldn't be immune.
I believe HAUEhuaheau91 is right, the armor could probably withstand dragonflame, but openings in the armor such as a visor would mean the person within is killed.
I can see Theon being Aeron in the show...getting captured by Euron and tortured just like it's described in the chapter. If only we could count on D&D to do it justice.
I gotta agree with soyon manlai here, the show Euron doesn't do the drugs, doesn't have the crazy obsession with all the gods, etc. There's no need for a scene like this in the show, cause it wouldn't really fit or make much sense....and to top it all off, the show HAS Aeron Dhampair....the guy who CROWNED Euron when he won the kingsmoot, and told Yara she'd have to do the kingsmoot before just declaring herself queen.
The word of the day is: Volition Euron is a man of his own volition. Almost drove me mad listening to you search for the right word haha. Fantastic video from both of you btw, I'm a fan of your channels, keep it up fellas :)
Dany isn't tall only a few women are described as tall Breanne, Ashara, Cersie, Melisandra and Val.....All the other females are petite or short average non tall
I think pale fire has only been used with one 'character' so far. The "shadow in woman's form" may be Viserion. The dragons are effectively shadows cast by Daenerys and Viserion's flame is described as pale.
Great vid! Yeah, it is paradoxical Euron claims to be a non-believer, yet he keeps priests in chains, drawing on their powers for his own nefarious ends. Perhaps he does worship a God of his own: Euron. But will hubris destroy him? He will be the darkest villain in the narrative.
I have a strong feeling that the dwarves are symbolic for the squabbling 7 kingdoms and the unimportant game of thrones, while Euron and the woman represent R'hllor and the Great Other (Euron with the Chthulu head representing the being at Sty'Gai, R'hllor, and the woman with the pale fire being the Great Other) laughing as they play the only game that matters.
The long, tall shadow woman sounds like Melisandre to me. She's described as being "taller than most knights". We know that even though she's keen on fire, she's very fond of shadows. She's given birth to one, and describes shadows as the minions of R'hllor. Also recall the fire she cast about Stannis' magic sword. It mimics the white light of the sun, but there's no heat. It's cold or could be described as pale, just like her skin. See what I'm getting at?
White fire shadow lady can be Cersei. She’s tall, associates with fire (wildfire), always described pale, owns the kings guard (who are coded like white walkers), hates dwarves, would need help to retake and hold King’s landing.
"White fire" sounds literally like a white dragon; Viserion... Dany losing control of the dragons and having 2 of them jumping to opposing sides would make sense in terms of a reversal. I just find it hard to believe that the living nuclear bombs will end up being anything other than terrible forces for indiscriminate destruction....
Awesome collaboration:) Are there anymore ? Also I had an idea about Euron's mate. The 13th lord commander married a female other. Could his mate possibly be one? It would make sense as far as them scheming and laughing as the kingdom tears itself apart. It would be amazing if he was the one behind bringing the others back.
I have an idea of who the woman is: Lady Stoneheart. She's nothing but a shadow of her former self ("a shadow of a woman"). She has brittle whitish hair. The white fire on her hands could signify the fire of life that was given to her by Beric, and her relationship with R'hllor. While I agree that the dwarves don't represent real people, they do bring to mind Penny and Tyrion Lannister, a person whom Stoneheart has personal history with. Her blind thirst for revenge could very well make her want to punish Tyrion should they ever cross paths.
I think the two dwarves fighting are Denarys and Faegon (Fake Aegon) and it's Euron and Cersei laughing (Cersei because what other woman do we know that delights in her enemies killing each other? e.g. When Tyrion told Cersei about Stannis besieging Storms End). I think Cersei will be pushed out of King's Landing by Faegon (probably before Dany ever gets to Westeros), Dany then arrives and doesn't even consider Cersei in her haste to remove Faegon. Cersei then, in her desperation, seeks aid from Euron.
I think another possibility for the shadow of woman's form, long and tall and terrible with pale white fire may also be the Others...while the humans are squabbling (the dwarves), Euron will help (try to use maybe?) the real threat of the Others to wreak devistation on Westeros.
Could it be possible that the shadow white fire woman could be Quaithe but as a reference to her true identity, maybe hinting a valerian or targeryan ancestry? It would be cool for it to be either Quaithe or Daenerys.
One theory I have: Could the long shadow be the God-Empress of Leng? The Lengi are said to be the tallest men in the known world, being both long and thin. It's said that she keeps conference with the Old Ones (even if the maze is sealed), and if they really are a direct copy from Lovecraft, then is it too unreasonable to assume Euron saw the Old Ones? It is said that any who go into the maze either return mad or not at all, wouldn't a mad man stand a better chance of surviving the maze? Maybe he was met by them on the sea between Leng and Asshai. It could be that the God-Empress is helping the Old Ones influence Euron. Here's where it get's weird and I'm still developing the theory: Dany must go East to go West, North to go South, etc. Perhaps the God-Empress and the Old Ones want Dany to go to Yi-Ti. Why: Vengeance? To usurp the Golden Empire? To weaken it so the Old Ones may invade? I couldn't really say, but until the shadowy figure reveals itself, that's my hypothesis.
Since I caught up on the books I've been watching heaps of theory videos and even though I love the first 5 and a half seasons of the show, it's feeling more and more like the kids version of this story.
Far more likely that Euron found a suit of armor in some vault of a noble in Valyeria. Most likely a matching set of armor and sword all together either still on its stand or fallen upon the ground within a large villa or fort that partially survived the cataclysm.
I love this chapter.. I guess he didnt get a chance to stir the common people together to oust euron as a godless man sitting the seastone chair after the kingsmoot.. Knew that wasnt guna work but i was hoping he would get some drowned men together against him at least.. That dragonhorn must have been mighty convincing lol
Just clicked. 3 Eyed Crow is Euron. Blood Raven always appears as a Weirwood. So, why change now? Why appear as both? He's not. The Crow sends Bran to the Raven which is what the Raven wanted but never really got his message across. He doesn't realize this. Takes it as a misinterpretation of sorts and so do The Children and they plug Bran into the Weirwood Net where he gathers unknowable information and his powers grow. Much to the Crows delight. I hypothesize that The Crow is only using The Crow to get to Bran. Bran exhibits none of the traits of a traditional Greenseer but Jojen is sent by The Crow to take him to The Raven for reasons he doesn't really know. Eventually releasing something long trapped under Winterfell. Jojen exhibits all the signs of a Greenseer and was probably meant to be the one for the Weirwoods but under the influence of The Crow this changes. I'm not quite sure how this is accomplished but why would he look like a Greenseer if he wasn't meant to be one? Maybe The Children made him a throne somewhere else in the cave and that's why he disappears. Maybe The Raven thought he could save Bran from The Crow. At this point in the books we don't know but on the series it's obvious The Crow went into Bran replacing him entirely. If this happens in the books The Children and The Raven will have failed. In the show they appear to have won by D&D combining The Crow and The Raven. I'd say they made a mistake but we know they're complete morons now so I doubt they would have even caught the difference in nuance. I doubt they even bothered to look at the released new chapters for WoW because all they cared about were the actors not the characters. This adds a new spin on everything to do with Bran in a way. His descent into darkness begins when The Crow Arrived. If it goes the same way in the book as the TV show; Bran is becoming The Other. As for Euron, I describe him as making Ramsey look like a puppy. Remember the Ghost of High Heart. The Crow covered in seaweed on the Faceless Mans shoulder represents Euron. The Crow is The Other Euron is seaweed.
You keep saying “the Crow and the Raven” like the show combined them or something but I think you’re confused? They’re the same character, it’s the Three Eyed Crow in the books and in the show they changed it to the Three Eyed Raven for whatever reason. But there aren’t two of them not sure where you got any of that from
@@warpedwhimsical No. You're confused. The show used The Raven to make it sound more like Blood Raven was controlling everything but even in the show he never refers to himself as that or does he acknowledge it when Bran asked about it. Honestly, I think D&D just thought it sounded cooler. Either way, Blood Raven was always a Weirwood in Brans dreams and never appeared to him as anything else until they met in human form. Then is when Blood Raven appears as a man. The Crow or in the tv show The Raven is something completely different. Never does anyone say they are the same, that they are Blood Raven. Bran actually has none of the characteristics of a Greenseer even. It goes out of it's way to influence him. I believe it's The Great Other that The Children worship who has claimed Bran for himself in order to gain power over man again as it had before the Andals arrived with the 7. Who The Children worshipped, The House of Black and White, The Church of Starry Wisdom, they're all connected in the worship of The Other. The Church was created by The Bloodstone Emperor and The House was created by Children who lived in the mines of ancient Valeria. There were some in the mines that already prayed to that Church I'm sure as the slaves came from everywhere. D&D fucked up the story really bad but that didn't change except for The Crow being called a Raven. Like I said, especially after seeing the making of type show that came after the series, they probably thought it sounded cooler. I doubt they even put as much thought into it as the viewers have they were in such a rush to have it be over. They were horrible at their jobs and openly admitted they feel like they doped GRRM into believing they could pull of making his show. Even though they promised a faithful adaptation right from the beginning of writing they prove how untrue that was. They butchered it worse than Sandor killing the butchers boy. I was a Star Wars fan. Even put up with the idiocy it has become but that is over now since I will never watch a project involving either of those 2 again.
You guys just meandered incoherently on this video. I couldn't make it all the way through, but I hope you eventually brought up the fact that Euron has Valryan Steel armour, which is pretty bad ass...
Imagine the reason the wite walkers are back is cuz Eurone woke them either by mistake or on purpose when he was traveling the world,or maybe when he went to valyria he found something.
Has anyone considered that he might be lying about the valyrian steel armor? He can definitely walk the walk but for him to find this armor set that fits him perfectly in some ruin makes me think he had it made and its just regular armor and he's embellishing for the sake of his legend. Like you said though it could also be that someone in old Valyria made it for him but I just feel like he might be full of shit
I personally also think that he's full of shit. No one has ever returned alive from the ruins of Valyria. Even Aerea who had Targaryen blood returned just to die in a horrific way. My suspicioun is that he's working with the Faceless Men. They ran away from Valyria and Arya mentioned in a chapter that in the House of B&W there are chambers full of treasures. They must have given it to him. And, when the Reader puts him in doubt in front of the Ironborn he answers quite aggresively. Oooor maybe he was there but, I only wonder what kind of power protected him there? Pfff, even Balerion was hurt when he went there!
We know stuff is out of order. Feast for crows timeline wise starts around the time the red wedding happened bc rob hears about it from mallister I believe that Euron took over and they were stuck in port
Just off the top of my head ... the referral of priests of all the Gods is a referral to the "Many-faced God" - perhaps Euron is the incarnation of the Many-faced God. So, in thinking about the bride of the Many-faced God...WHO would the Many-faced God consider a proper mate? That may lead to her identity - just a thought.
I know this is an older video but I'm really curious if the magic in this story could come from the oily black stone like it comes from the black stone in Robin Hobbs Farseer stories. I know george is a robin hobb fan. Just curious.
I believe Euron has never been to Valyria , even Balerion got mauled when he whent there imagine a single ship. Also his crew being mute is very convenient 🤔
I like the idea that an ancient godlike entity is at the heart of the Shadow and perhaps the Land of Always Winter. GRRM left hints of worldwide confrontations popping up every now and then. And apparently these showdowns with nonhuman races have scarred the planet.
In the story the people at the moot hear dragon binders horn blow and listen to Euron and immediately name him king. Only later to wonder why since no one really wanted that to happen. The horn has nothing to do with controlling dragons but people. Moccarro is the only one who could read the writing. Do you think he'd risk Danny loosing her dragons?
Armour, plate armour was made to fit a specific person. Euron's valyrian armour is said to fit him like a second skin. To just come across a full suit, where every piece fits him, is impossible. That said...this is all fantasy fiction and GRRM is hardly wedded to realism in any aspect of life in this world. So prhaps Euron did just trip over it somewhere and say "bugger me, an exact fit! It's my birthday. Again." As a crazy bad guy, Euron's just far more entertaining than Ramsey Bolton. Besides Ramsey's ugly. And smelly.. Euron's meant to be jolly winsome, and we like our bad guys to look good. It's more fun that way.
I have few questions here: how do you think the silence would function with mutes rowing? Doesn't that need coordination? Is there something "supernatural" about it? Also don't you think Euron is just manipulating Vic? I don't think he would just trust him with the horn. He seems to be more cunning than that. Plus the red priest seems a bit too fishy, the dusky woman too
So why exactly is it that Eurons' crew haven't killed him for cutting out their tongues? I know the short answer is that there would be no story if he is dead, but is there another answer? Does he simply lock his door at night and keep his one eye on the crew during the day? Or are they okay with serving him as he does not take a lot of the loot and as such they get rich and are content with being mutes? I know some of them are his bastards, but it does not seem like he cares much for them... Any ideas?
any personal exp with hallucinations? or any reason to believe that suggestion influences them? you just state it. thers no evidence of any manipulation. or at least you dont provide any.
Guided hallucinations are most definitely a thing. Groups who take meskalin or shrooms that have some one guiding the group tend to have shared hallucinations.
So, the dwarfs - could they actually be the Lord of Light, and The Great Other? It’s another step up from your Westeros vs The Others being the dwarfs. However it steps it up to the Gods who have been controlling things for so long, Eruron seems like he is trying to build himself to be a “god killer” which could be why Eruron is killing the priests. Just an idea.
Stimulating video, guys. :) I'm curious. What, in your minds, is the difference between gods/Gods and powerful super-intelligent beings/forces influencing stuff that happens in the world of Ice and Fire? Why are these beings angels and demons to you, rather than gods/Gods and demons? I guess to me, I can't tell the difference, based solely on the cryptic hints we have in the mythology. Thanks!
So i have been wanting for someone to descuss the Bran chapter after Winterfell is burned down. In the very begining of this bran chapter Barn is in Summer and Summer sees what is decribed as a Dragon. I just really want to see others ideas to this. thanks
i agree that it would be "more professional" but its refreshing having some unscripted well grounded ASoIaF videos. There is loooooots of scripted song channels out there, some of it just feels "clinical".
You got to remember a catastrophic event happened in Valaryia. It is EXTREMELY plausible that items from someones armory were left behind by fleeing people.
I feel like the vision Aeron is shown is firmly under the control of Euron, who appears in it. It seems like Euron knows how to control others' visions via the shade of the evening. So the woman in the vision might be what Euron considers his ideal mate, not necessarily a real person at this point. It's who he envisions as his queen.
good point, imo he's gonna get it and it's gonna be Cersei, Euron is too much of a fruitcake for Dany to consider him an actual ally, and she is too compassionate to find fun in that sadistic image of the 2 remaining factions fighting for westeros (which are them? one i believe will be siding with the young griff), at least yet.
Daenerys is not tall. She is never referred to as tall.
Aaron Garcia maybe it’s a symbol for her being higher above everyone power-wise or because she’d be queen? 🤔
@@BorniRichdoubtfull.
That "were you praying i would choose you or pass you by" is particularly f*cked up....
Aeron could have been hoping Euron choose him so Urri wasnt picked. Kind of sacrificing himself to protect his brother.
This is really great, you should totally do more of these Winds of Winter discussion/ speculation videos. There is sooooo much meat in all of the released chapters.
cersei likes fire...and hates dwarves...
+PD Derek maybe the dwarves are Tyrion and Penny
I'm all fire mage. I hate dorfs too.
was thinking the same thing especially if uron gonna end up on the iron throne ie kings landing
there's no reason for Euron to keep mentally challenged people by his right hand.
Aasf Fsa yes, thank you. English is not my language and also I have dyslexia . I will correct....😉
In your discussion of the image of the woman having dwarves capering around her, male and female, you seem to assume it's only two dwarves. I don't think so. Stannis, Danny, Cerce, Little Finger, Euron, Aegon, Dorne and perhaps even Sansa & Jon are all still players in the game at the end of the 5th book. I think the imagery is the same as in Dany's vision: the woman is Westeros and the dwarves are those fighting & forming odd alliances to win control of the continent.
The white- flame woman reminded me of The Other woman who seduced the Night's King in the legend.
That was my thinking
There was also a tiger woman in the Bloodstone emperor story.
Spoilers: Its Cersei, Lioness of Night
G.R.R.M. has miniatures for all his characters. He also ordered a Melisandre figure which was pale, hence the white fire. Shadow magic and white fire. Not sure why she would work with Euron though.
Piekenier she’d have to think he was Azor Ahai or something
The Iron Wood. It grows in Westeros too, and the whole Telltale Game is all about House Forrester that takes care of the Iron Wood. They're the only ones who can burn it too, and it creates a strange blue flame when burning.
Ghostwalker2061 I had totally forgotten about that!
Can't the woman you're talking about be Cersei?
White fire = hair - check, dwarves =finding Tyrion - check, f**king crazy - check.
I got two issues with it as Cersei...first and most important is that she has done so much to prove herself Tywin's heir. She is making moves to be the one in power...not standing behind the power again. Secondly...she would have been golden fire or yellow fire if it was related to her hair.
When Euron says, "Your God will come for you, some God at least." This is most telling as regards to his disposition toward religion. Believing that there are Gods or some power, but at the same time believing that all religious concepts of God are false is what it means to be Agnostic. Agnos is greek for Unknown or Unknowable. Euron isn't religious, but he believes that there are spiritual powers that have sway over the world. To round up holy-men and sacrifice them, is a brutal cleansing of false paths. What purpose this holds? Guess we will have to wait and see, but to sacrifice and torture these priests is not beyond the scope of Euron's behavior thus far.
Perhaps he believed he can control them? I.like the idea that Euron is fulfilling the role of some anti-Azhor Ahai, an anti-christ figure who has come to ensure The Long Night overtakes the entire world.
I see that no one has mentioned that Euron had the pregnant girl tied next to Aeron; I don't think that's just random cruelty, if he's being so careful with his choice of sacrifices, could this mean that he's sacrificing King's blood too?
I'm so close to finishing Dance. I want to be done so I can watch stuff like this but I don't want it to be over.
Hahaha, I know dude, wanting the book to not to finish because when you do, you'll know that we have to wait till Winds of Winter comes.
You're almost there brother. And good on you for not watching spoilery videos. GRRM is a better storyteller than any TH-camr (No offense, Q, you're my dude). Might as well finish and then indulge on the plethora of material online. Starting with all of IdeasOfIceAndFire's videos first of course :) lol
You can continue with the tales of Dunk and Egg, World of Ice and Fire and the Rogue Prince. I enjoyed my second read of ASOIAF as much as my first. I am currently filling the void with Lovecraft.
I have so far to go I'm just about to finish Game of Thrones
Oh my sweet summer child. No matter when you finish the series, you'll still be waiting for years with the rest of us. I suggest a re-read.
Davey Jones in Game of thrones confirmed
The Order of the Green hand has a theory that tree with black bark is the tree with blue leaves used to make the strangler and the shade of the evening and it is the opposite of the Wierwood, white bark and red leaves, which the children feed to Bran to strengthen his Greenseer ability.
The five dwarves on a women tearing and bitting ... that's the shade of the evening warlocks on Danny ... yes?
Don’t think so, Dany has a similar vision herself. The woman is Westeros and the dwarves are the squabbling high lords destroying the country with their games
"A Song for Lya" also gives insight into the Children and their trees.
I immediately liked the video because I know this chapter is awesome
Each religion has some form of majik background.
The red God is fire and shadow.
The old gods are Druid esk majik.
The faceless is dark majik focused on death.
I think the seven would represent those incapable of majik.
The drowned god would be focused on the sea. With a hint of resurrection.
I think it kind of fits. And religion in our world is meant to explain the unexplained, so why wouldn't it be the same in their world?! Just a thought.
If you wear headphones and listen carefully, at 28:09 you'll hear something in the background...
...could it be a rusted hinge?
LOL!
So cool to hear this topic and it will for sure be an influence on this years episodes.
I thought about Cersei as well, but in Danys visions they show her dwars rapping a woman as a metaphor for the 5 kings and Westereos, why not a metaphor now about Euron and Cersei laughing at the chaos of the world.
That feeling about door hinges is so real man. Martin really did a genuinely great job of conveying the horror of something like that happening to you by straight up giving his audience second hand PTSD.
you guys are leaning toward it being Dany by Euron's side. Why cant it be Cersei? The vision is of Euron on the Iron Throne after all and if the mysterious woman. is laughing with him at these broken figures ....that sounds like Cersei type of evil.
i doubt it. Euron is smart enough to know that house Lannister is on the verge of collapse and a wildcard like Cersei is too much of a liability. He is also too caught up in his prophecies/god complex to settle for anything less than dragons. I predict he will marry Dany or die in the attempt. (leaning towards latter) but it wouldnt be the first time i was wrong so who knows!
She's a stupid player in game of thrones. Why would he need her at all?
I was thinking she might be turned into a zombie by Qyburn, but that's completly crackpot. More likely, Cersei might be one of the female dwarfs in the vision instead because she is just fucking up Westeros so majorly.
I'm thinking about Viseryon.
good call
Great job on the theories!! They got my mental gears grinding!!
Awesome collaboration hope to hear more in the future, you guys are amazing!
Do you think Valaryian steel armor makes a man immune to dragon fire or ice weapons of the others?
No
j ding Perhaps the weapons of the Others, but not dragon fire. I think the armour could withstand dragon fire better than normal armour, but it wouldn't be immune.
The armor might, but not the person inside the armor 😁
I believe HAUEhuaheau91 is right, the armor could probably withstand dragonflame, but openings in the armor such as a visor would mean the person within is killed.
I can see Theon being Aeron in the show...getting captured by Euron and tortured just like it's described in the chapter. If only we could count on D&D to do it justice.
after all he's been through euron will barely be able to make him flinch
+kwadwo baidoo Euron is Euron however. A thousand times worse than Ramsay, that's the magic of his charater, no pun intended
Jennifer Johnson The show euron is nothing like his book euron counterpart.
I gotta agree with soyon manlai here, the show Euron doesn't do the drugs, doesn't have the crazy obsession with all the gods, etc. There's no need for a scene like this in the show, cause it wouldn't really fit or make much sense....and to top it all off, the show HAS Aeron Dhampair....the guy who CROWNED Euron when he won the kingsmoot, and told Yara she'd have to do the kingsmoot before just declaring herself queen.
kwadwo baidoo Euron from the books would've made Ramsay (from both books and show) squeal like a pig.
The male and female dwarves could represent Dany vs Aegon...
Some say, that there are no female dwarves. That dwarves just spring up from the ground. Which is ridiculous..
LOL
Of course there are female dwarves they have beards nearly as robust and full as the males which makes them hard to distinguish for outsiders.
Winter is coming, but don't worry, it's not really a big deal.
The word of the day is:
Volition
Euron is a man of his own volition.
Almost drove me mad listening to you search for the right word haha.
Fantastic video from both of you btw, I'm a fan of your channels, keep it up fellas :)
Dany isn't tall only a few women are described as tall Breanne, Ashara, Cersie, Melisandra and Val.....All the other females are petite or short average non tall
I think pale fire has only been used with one 'character' so far. The "shadow in woman's form" may be Viserion. The dragons are effectively shadows cast by Daenerys and Viserion's flame is described as pale.
Euron from books: scary ah fucking hell
Euron from TV: "i fuck the queen"
Awesome!
I agree with most, it's one of the best chapters. It was so unsettling to read.
You guys have such great chemistry together, one of the best collabs I've heard. Really hope you both will do this again in the (near) future!
Great vid! Yeah, it is paradoxical Euron claims to be a non-believer, yet he keeps priests in chains, drawing on their powers for his own nefarious ends. Perhaps he does worship a God of his own: Euron. But will hubris destroy him? He will be the darkest villain in the narrative.
Daenarys has silver hair. One of her sobriquets is the Silver Queen. I really enjoyed the video; great job, you guys!! :) :)
Euron the King of Psychopathy!
I have a strong feeling that the dwarves are symbolic for the squabbling 7 kingdoms and the unimportant game of thrones, while Euron and the woman represent R'hllor and the Great Other (Euron with the Chthulu head representing the being at Sty'Gai, R'hllor, and the woman with the pale fire being the Great Other) laughing as they play the only game that matters.
The long, tall shadow woman sounds like Melisandre to me. She's described as being "taller than most knights". We know that even though she's keen on fire, she's very fond of shadows. She's given birth to one, and describes shadows as the minions of R'hllor. Also recall the fire she cast about Stannis' magic sword. It mimics the white light of the sun, but there's no heat. It's cold or could be described as pale, just like her skin. See what I'm getting at?
Get your aeron and euron straight...
OH MY GOD! That is how it all began!
White fire shadow lady can be Cersei. She’s tall, associates with fire (wildfire), always described pale, owns the kings guard (who are coded like white walkers), hates dwarves, would need help to retake and hold King’s landing.
"White fire" sounds literally like a white dragon; Viserion...
Dany losing control of the dragons and having 2 of them jumping to opposing sides would make sense in terms of a reversal.
I just find it hard to believe that the living nuclear bombs will end up being anything other than terrible forces for indiscriminate destruction....
Awesome collaboration:) Are there anymore ?
Also I had an idea about Euron's mate. The 13th lord commander married a female other. Could his mate possibly be one? It would make sense as far as them scheming and laughing as the kingdom tears itself apart. It would be amazing if he was the one behind bringing the others back.
where did you find the picture of euron on the throne of skulls?
Dig you and Don....further collaborations are encouraged.
26:00 the entity, the god-like, the angel. the demon, They are Bran. Bran is guiding the people through the story.
Preston Jacobs has it right. It's all about Euron using Aeron for his abilities
I have an idea of who the woman is: Lady Stoneheart. She's nothing but a shadow of her former self ("a shadow of a woman"). She has brittle whitish hair. The white fire on her hands could signify the fire of life that was given to her by Beric, and her relationship with R'hllor. While I agree that the dwarves don't represent real people, they do bring to mind Penny and Tyrion Lannister, a person whom Stoneheart has personal history with. Her blind thirst for revenge could very well make her want to punish Tyrion should they ever cross paths.
Raphael Gomes That would be pretty nasty though.
"I FUCKING LOVE COSTUMES!" Quinn you make me so happy
I think the two dwarves fighting are Denarys and Faegon (Fake Aegon) and it's Euron and Cersei laughing (Cersei because what other woman do we know that delights in her enemies killing each other? e.g. When Tyrion told Cersei about Stannis besieging Storms End).
I think Cersei will be pushed out of King's Landing by Faegon (probably before Dany ever gets to Westeros), Dany then arrives and doesn't even consider Cersei in her haste to remove Faegon. Cersei then, in her desperation, seeks aid from Euron.
I think another possibility for the shadow of woman's form, long and tall and terrible with pale white fire may also be the Others...while the humans are squabbling (the dwarves), Euron will help (try to use maybe?) the real threat of the Others to wreak devistation on Westeros.
Could it be possible that the shadow white fire woman could be Quaithe but as a reference to her true identity, maybe hinting a valerian or targeryan ancestry? It would be cool for it to be either Quaithe or Daenerys.
Love the collab!!!
One theory I have: Could the long shadow be the God-Empress of Leng? The Lengi are said to be the tallest men in the known world, being both long and thin. It's said that she keeps conference with the Old Ones (even if the maze is sealed), and if they really are a direct copy from Lovecraft, then is it too unreasonable to assume Euron saw the Old Ones? It is said that any who go into the maze either return mad or not at all, wouldn't a mad man stand a better chance of surviving the maze? Maybe he was met by them on the sea between Leng and Asshai. It could be that the God-Empress is helping the Old Ones influence Euron. Here's where it get's weird and I'm still developing the theory: Dany must go East to go West, North to go South, etc. Perhaps the God-Empress and the Old Ones want Dany to go to Yi-Ti. Why: Vengeance? To usurp the Golden Empire? To weaken it so the Old Ones may invade? I couldn't really say, but until the shadowy figure reveals itself, that's my hypothesis.
It's from Iron wood a black barked tree with blue leaves the exact opposite of weirwood
Since I caught up on the books I've been watching heaps of theory videos and even though I love the first 5 and a half seasons of the show, it's feeling more and more like the kids version of this story.
I liked hearing you guys together.
Far more likely that Euron found a suit of armor in some vault of a noble in Valyeria. Most likely a matching set of armor and sword all together either still on its stand or fallen upon the ground within a large villa or fort that partially survived the cataclysm.
i think Euron knows the Azor Ahai prophecy and he is trying to make himself be Azor Ahai so he could be remembered as a sort of God
I love this chapter.. I guess he didnt get a chance to stir the common people together to oust euron as a godless man sitting the seastone chair after the kingsmoot.. Knew that wasnt guna work but i was hoping he would get some drowned men together against him at least.. That dragonhorn must have been mighty convincing lol
Just clicked. 3 Eyed Crow is Euron. Blood Raven always appears as a Weirwood. So, why change now? Why appear as both? He's not. The Crow sends Bran to the Raven which is what the Raven wanted but never really got his message across. He doesn't realize this. Takes it as a misinterpretation of sorts and so do The Children and they plug Bran into the Weirwood Net where he gathers unknowable information and his powers grow. Much to the Crows delight.
I hypothesize that The Crow is only using The Crow to get to Bran. Bran exhibits none of the traits of a traditional Greenseer but Jojen is sent by The Crow to take him to The Raven for reasons he doesn't really know. Eventually releasing something long trapped under Winterfell. Jojen exhibits all the signs of a Greenseer and was probably meant to be the one for the Weirwoods but under the influence of The Crow this changes. I'm not quite sure how this is accomplished but why would he look like a Greenseer if he wasn't meant to be one? Maybe The Children made him a throne somewhere else in the cave and that's why he disappears. Maybe The Raven thought he could save Bran from The Crow. At this point in the books we don't know but on the series it's obvious The Crow went into Bran replacing him entirely. If this happens in the books The Children and The Raven will have failed. In the show they appear to have won by D&D combining The Crow and The Raven. I'd say they made a mistake but we know they're complete morons now so I doubt they would have even caught the difference in nuance. I doubt they even bothered to look at the released new chapters for WoW because all they cared about were the actors not the characters.
This adds a new spin on everything to do with Bran in a way. His descent into darkness begins when The Crow Arrived. If it goes the same way in the book as the TV show; Bran is becoming The Other.
As for Euron, I describe him as making Ramsey look like a puppy.
Remember the Ghost of High Heart. The Crow covered in seaweed on the Faceless Mans shoulder represents Euron. The Crow is The Other Euron is seaweed.
You keep saying “the Crow and the Raven” like the show combined them or something but I think you’re confused? They’re the same character, it’s the Three Eyed Crow in the books and in the show they changed it to the Three Eyed Raven for whatever reason. But there aren’t two of them not sure where you got any of that from
@@warpedwhimsical No. You're confused. The show used The Raven to make it sound more like Blood Raven was controlling everything but even in the show he never refers to himself as that or does he acknowledge it when Bran asked about it. Honestly, I think D&D just thought it sounded cooler. Either way, Blood Raven was always a Weirwood in Brans dreams and never appeared to him as anything else until they met in human form. Then is when Blood Raven appears as a man. The Crow or in the tv show The Raven is something completely different. Never does anyone say they are the same, that they are Blood Raven. Bran actually has none of the characteristics of a Greenseer even. It goes out of it's way to influence him. I believe it's The Great Other that The Children worship who has claimed Bran for himself in order to gain power over man again as it had before the Andals arrived with the 7. Who The Children worshipped, The House of Black and White, The Church of Starry Wisdom, they're all connected in the worship of The Other. The Church was created by The Bloodstone Emperor and The House was created by Children who lived in the mines of ancient Valeria. There were some in the mines that already prayed to that Church I'm sure as the slaves came from everywhere. D&D fucked up the story really bad but that didn't change except for The Crow being called a Raven. Like I said, especially after seeing the making of type show that came after the series, they probably thought it sounded cooler. I doubt they even put as much thought into it as the viewers have they were in such a rush to have it be over. They were horrible at their jobs and openly admitted they feel like they doped GRRM into believing they could pull of making his show. Even though they promised a faithful adaptation right from the beginning of writing they prove how untrue that was. They butchered it worse than Sandor killing the butchers boy.
I was a Star Wars fan. Even put up with the idiocy it has become but that is over now since I will never watch a project involving either of those 2 again.
the tall woman white flame is the queen woman of the others
You guys just meandered incoherently on this video. I couldn't make it all the way through, but I hope you eventually brought up the fact that Euron has Valryan Steel armour, which is pretty bad ass...
Imagine the reason the wite walkers are back is cuz Eurone woke them either by mistake or on purpose when he was traveling the world,or maybe when he went to valyria he found something.
Maybe Euron wants to convince him that the drowned god isn't real and when Euron accomplishes that he then convinces them to worship him as a god
The iron born are the best chapters. The show presents them as Hicks. too bad
In lovecraft lore there are beings that can possess other life forms from across space and time and assume their identity. Perhaps Euron is not Euron.
the warlocks aren't holy men per say, as in they are more of wise men. ..
Has anyone considered that he might be lying about the valyrian steel armor? He can definitely walk the walk but for him to find this armor set that fits him perfectly in some ruin makes me think he had it made and its just regular armor and he's embellishing for the sake of his legend. Like you said though it could also be that someone in old Valyria made it for him but I just feel like he might be full of shit
His brother says it's valyrian steel. So it's not just him.
I personally also think that he's full of shit. No one has ever returned alive from the ruins of Valyria. Even Aerea who had Targaryen blood returned just to die in a horrific way.
My suspicioun is that he's working with the Faceless Men. They ran away from Valyria and Arya mentioned in a chapter that in the House of B&W there are chambers full of treasures. They must have given it to him. And, when the Reader puts him in doubt in front of the Ironborn he answers quite aggresively.
Oooor maybe he was there but, I only wonder what kind of power protected him there? Pfff, even Balerion was hurt when he went there!
What if the Valyrian steel armor was just a Glamour.
We know stuff is out of order. Feast for crows timeline wise starts around the time the red wedding happened bc rob hears about it from mallister I believe that Euron took over and they were stuck in port
Just off the top of my head ... the referral of priests of all the Gods is a referral to the "Many-faced God" - perhaps Euron is the incarnation of the Many-faced God. So, in thinking about the bride of the Many-faced God...WHO would the Many-faced God consider a proper mate? That may lead to her identity - just a thought.
I know this is an older video but I'm really curious if the magic in this story could come from the oily black stone like it comes from the black stone in Robin Hobbs Farseer stories. I know george is a robin hobb fan. Just curious.
I believe Euron has never been to Valyria , even Balerion got mauled when he whent there imagine a single ship. Also his crew being mute is very convenient 🤔
I like the idea that an ancient godlike entity is at the heart of the Shadow and perhaps the Land of Always Winter. GRRM left hints of worldwide confrontations popping up every now and then. And apparently these showdowns with nonhuman races have scarred the planet.
He needs them to make his dragon eggs hatch?
enjoyed the video thanks!
That's a good question ...what is he up to, what was he looking for when he was sailing all the way ???
I'm convinced he's going to become Chthulu. I think GRRM is trying to write a Chthulu origin story and I can't stop thinking about it.
All I'm saying is that GRRM said that we wouldn't be seeing the gods in these books. Take that as you will.
@@heliopolitan444 Yes but if Euron becomes Chthulu isnt that just removing god-status from Chthulu?
In the story the people at the moot hear dragon binders horn blow and listen to Euron and immediately name him king. Only later to wonder why since no one really wanted that to happen. The horn has nothing to do with controlling dragons but people. Moccarro is the only one who could read the writing. Do you think he'd risk Danny loosing her dragons?
Then it’s proven through forsaken chapter that he’s going to battle and he confirms Eurons sigil
Armour, plate armour was made to fit a specific person.
Euron's valyrian armour is said to fit him like a second skin. To just come across a full suit, where every piece fits him, is impossible.
That said...this is all fantasy fiction and GRRM is hardly wedded to realism in any aspect of life in this world. So prhaps Euron did just trip over it somewhere and say "bugger me, an exact fit! It's my birthday. Again."
As a crazy bad guy, Euron's just far more entertaining than Ramsey Bolton. Besides Ramsey's ugly. And smelly.. Euron's meant to be jolly winsome, and we like our bad guys to look good.
It's more fun that way.
I have few questions here: how do you think the silence would function with mutes rowing? Doesn't that need coordination? Is there something "supernatural" about it?
Also don't you think Euron is just manipulating Vic? I don't think he would just trust him with the horn. He seems to be more cunning than that.
Plus the red priest seems a bit too fishy, the dusky woman too
kanpaisou the rowmen have drums to listen to, which keeps them rowing in unison.
So why exactly is it that Eurons' crew haven't killed him for cutting out their tongues? I know the short answer is that there would be no story if he is dead, but is there another answer? Does he simply lock his door at night and keep his one eye on the crew during the day?
Or are they okay with serving him as he does not take a lot of the loot and as such they get rich and are content with being mutes? I know some of them are his bastards, but it does not seem like he cares much for them... Any ideas?
any personal exp with hallucinations? or any reason to believe that suggestion influences them? you just state it. thers no evidence of any manipulation. or at least you dont provide any.
Guided hallucinations are most definitely a thing. Groups who take meskalin or shrooms that have some one guiding the group tend to have shared hallucinations.
So, the dwarfs - could they actually be the Lord of Light, and The Great Other? It’s another step up from your Westeros vs The Others being the dwarfs. However it steps it up to the Gods who have been controlling things for so long, Eruron seems like he is trying to build himself to be a “god killer” which could be why Eruron is killing the priests.
Just an idea.
Stimulating video, guys. :)
I'm curious. What, in your minds, is the difference between gods/Gods and powerful super-intelligent beings/forces influencing stuff that happens in the world of Ice and Fire?
Why are these beings angels and demons to you, rather than gods/Gods and demons?
I guess to me, I can't tell the difference, based solely on the cryptic hints we have in the mythology.
Thanks!
Great video!
So i have been wanting for someone to descuss the Bran chapter after Winterfell is burned down. In the very begining of this bran chapter Barn is in Summer and Summer sees what is decribed as a Dragon. I just really want to see others ideas to this. thanks
2 major ending players are targaryens and euron and they fight
What about the wife of the nights watch commander who took an other as a bride?
KINERVA is also the high rep priestess
Ok so the tall woman with Euron is Cersei confirmed?
So, Ramsay is Stupid... er, Chaotic Evil, while Euron is Neutral Evil?
at 26:32 he says GRRM is borrowing heavily from some story. Can anyone help me with identifying this?
I'm the only one who sees Tyrion and Penny capering?
I love your videos! A professional opinion... Stop saying that much "like"
+Daniel Lin im not particularly good at unscripted speaking
i agree that it would be "more professional" but its refreshing having some unscripted well grounded ASoIaF videos. There is loooooots of scripted song channels out there, some of it just feels "clinical".