Its almost like Dave is really, REALLY good at the job he was originally hired to do and then given a job he wasnt good at. Happens alot in all areas of life unfortunately.
@@ClaytonBigsby93this dude is just another video essay content farmer. I remember when TH-cam launched his first video on smiling friends into everyone’s recommended feed. He’s clearly doing something to manipulate the algorithm
No offense bro but I call cap. Because if the sequel trilogy were all bangers, these mid tv shows wouldn’t hurt the brand as much. It’s a combination of both that are hurting Star Wars
@@ammonite0257 I’m just giving my personal perspective. I’ve never felt more like starwars was a dead franchise with nothing new to offer then I did after watching Mando S2, Kenobi, and BoBF
@@andrewvideogames Same. I was very excited for Mando, but while I was watching it, something clicked, and I realized that it was just meh, and I haven't been able to get into Star Wars since then.
@@ilikesnow7074 I didn’t really dig S1 but it seemed promising enough. It was when we got to S2, and the show seemed more concerned with jingling external characters in our face that I really started to question if this whole media project was something I wanted to stay invested in. The Luke ending had me fuming
And Geroge has literally invented Green Fantasy Magic to resurrect Darth Maul. The Apprentice clearly learned from the Master. Both of them should not be allowed to write anything for Star Wars anymore.
@@cesruhf2605He wasn't resurrected he lived for more than a decade before getting rescued and brought back to full strength with magic which in my opinion is worse than time travel despite the fact that everybody's favourite discord mod only did it to give his kitten more screen time
@@JacktheStripper-tc5pn bro time travel is also magic. the force is basically magic. jedis are basically wizards. how is healing magic so destructive to this franchise?
For Clone Wars, I think it had two major things going for it: 1. It was on cartoon network and the plots didn't need to be as tight or coherent. Filoni's pretty wooden dialogue was often compensated for by the animators who knew how to actually bring the characters and their models to life. Silly-seeming plot holes and poorly written conflict could be more easily forgiven because it was a cartoon meant for kids, but there were some pretty good plots over the years. 2. George was still around. For Clone Wars, George was still in charge at Lucasfilm and was there to help dave and supervise. I think Clone wars worked in a way of using established characters to tell a story that just worked in a way that his subsequent attempts never did. Clone wars was an anthology series that borrowed from a large cast of characters to fill in the gaps between the first three movies. It told a lot of interesting stories, featured many different Jedi, and never spent too much place in one time. I hate to say it but I think Dave's lack of grounding with George watching over him really showed in the Bad Batch and Rebels, which lost much of their tightness and instead focused on a single core group of people. I hate to say it, but his lack of directing skills with live action really have showed in the shows he's been a part of---particularly Ahsoka. His wooden dialogue, in the hands of an incompetent director and actors who haven't been given good direction is revealed rather abjectly for what it is: stilted, wooden, crappy dialogue devoid of emotion. He doesn't have the crutch of his animators to lean on in order to help cover that fact over.
Filoni is a Cartoon Network level writer. Problem is there no writing talent at Disney Lucasfilm, and they largely, arrogantly, ignore the well written content that came before them. Hell, didn't Kathleen Kennedy state that Star Wars didn't have books/comics to draw from, like Marvel does? How does she have a job at, nevermind lead Lucasfilm?
ive been telling people for years since i was like 15 that KATHLEEN KENNEDY IS THE ISSUE. she has fumbled every single thing she's ever been seriously a part of
Filoni earned his job based on his writing and directing work on Avatar and was directly picked by George Lucas whom he is still in contact with. Why you think you know better than him is beyond me.
@amnesia5490 clone Wars the later version including S 7 is Filoni as is Rebels... I personally think he's the savior while I admit I don't like everything as I said in another comment got no problem with Ashoka in fact love her compared to Ms Mary Sue never used the force or a Saber yet wins..... Ashoka especially as they can appear as Force Ghosts is looked out for By Ani, potentially and highly likely Obi and quite possibly even Yoda... that said Ashoka is 10x better than Rey for sure
Dave Filoni is a co writer & co storyteller, and a director supervisor but he is a Creative Collaborator, not a sole creator of Star Wars tv shows or content in general. People took this man and made a god out of him because he played a heavy role in the storytelling department and supervising department but he is a collaborator at the end of the day who works well when teaming up with others. His best work will always be with George. Outside of George his flaws start to show more.
@@Typoh_YT I’d say put George Lucas, Dave Filoni & Henry Gilroy in a room and the three would craft great Star Wars projects that keep this franchise alive. Honestly George is the great visionary, creator, storyteller & writer who can do impressive story crafting and character creating, of course he has had help and collaborated with others but his work on his own alone is impressive, Dave Filoni is a good student at mimicking this style while implementing his own ideas and trying to tie in any EU related stuff he can (because ironically despite the hate he gets from parts of The EU side of The Fandom he was The Top EU fanboy cheerleader in TCW’s writing room), Henry Gilroy similar to Lawrence Kasdan & other collaborators to Lucas had a great way of fleshing out the execution of Lucas’s , Filoni’s & others ideas when it came to writing Star Wars stories. One thing you do have to learn about movies & shows in Hollywood is often how storytelling & writing aren’t always a 1 to 1 process. The Official Credited Writer alone very often isn’t the only person involved in the story crafting or character arcs. Despite their being 1 or 2 writers for a movie or episode of a show you’d be surprised how collaborative the effort it takes to put together stories and then have them executed on a script. Listening to story conferences between George Lucas, Stephen Spielberg & Lawrence Kasdan alone when discussing all their ideas for the stories & characters in Indiana Jones proves how this works, even the conversions Lucas & Leigh had during the early production of Empire Strikes Back or when Lucas collaborated with his friends about his ideas , stories & characters for A New Hope and how’d they give up advice about how to execute his ideas better. Even one person like George Lucas, Or Dave Filoni is spearheading the story, came up with the concept , etc they have help from others to make what they do. Storytelling in entertainment in general is mostly collaborative and even in most solo works that focus on the vision of a single individual artist show how they still collaborate with others during the creative stages. So while this was an interesting video I’d say look beyond what you see in the credits of projects on wikis or Imdb , look into the productions , writers room recordings etc because you’d be surprised how collaborative storytelling really is whether it’s a group creation or solo creation. George Lucas did most of the writing and storytelling for All Six Of The Star Wars Films whether he had collaborative help or did it solely on his own but despite the amount of work he put into all of it especially Empire Strikes Back he opted for Leigh Brackett & Lawrence Kasdan to get the only writing credits for Empire despite him putting more into Empire’s story then either of them. Lawrence Kasdan for the most part just polished Lucas’s dialogue & Leigh wrote a very interesting first draft of Empire that Lucas rejected and rewrote himself despite him being a massive fan of her past work as a famous sci fi author & script writer for movies as well as her being a massive fan of his work on Star Wars. Despite all that alone when she passed away shortly after Empire released he gave her & Kasdan full writing credit. He also gave Irvin Kirshner full director’s credit when he had to film portions of Empire because Irvin got sick at times. I say this story because it shows how official credits from not just Hollywood projects but any projects are often very surface level and don’t paint the whole picture of what goes into the creative process of our favorite entertainment. This isn’t to take away credit from Henry Gilroy or George Lucas, or Dave Filoni, it’s to show that things are a lot more complicated and filled with nuance then we realize. This also part of why the drama behind Stan Lee being seen as The Sole creator of many attributes to marvel ends with people praising him as a God or claiming he’s a fraud when in reality like Dave Filoni & most people in the Industry he’s a creative collaborator of a team that made something great, the audience turn them into Gods in their eyes and when they look into the creative process are shocked by how non cut & dry the creative process is.
i think most fandoms have the problem of attributing everything they like to one person when it's always a team effort. Love that there's a video to set the record straight and I hope more people get to see this
I mean that’s the fandoms fault, not Filloni. Dude is humble as hell. He outright thought he was being pranked when they first called him to do TCW. And he’s always gotten feedback from George and whatnot with everything he’s doing trying to be faithful to the original intent (unlike say Rian Johnson who was so focused on subverting expectations that he assassinated the character of one of Star Wars biggest heroes and many kids childhood idols/hero’s and even made sure to undo every bit of setup from the first movie in the trilogy he was a part of. He’s a great director, but he shouldn’t be involved with franchises that aren’t his own. He clearly lacks the ability to respect them). People complain about things like the World between Worlds, but it seems to me like it’s based on the Whills from the early drafts of Star Wars as they were beings that were supposed to exist outside of time. And Lucas was there and signed off on all of it. If you actually read/listen to anything about George’s original plans for the future of Star Wars, it’s super clear what’s happening in Ahsoka now is the only content in Star Wars right now truly trying to explore that larger world. Yes, he likes wolves, but who cares? Heck, his use of their names is increasingly creative as Hati and Skoll are both sons of Fenrir, Hati his he who hates and Skoll is he who mocks. And both are perfectly fitting of their characters.
Sorry, but I don’t believe that Lucas would like what they’re doing in the Ahsoka show. It caters to a segment of the fanbase who believe that the Jedi were evil failures and apparently more responsible for Anakin’s downfall than either Palpatine or Anakin himself, that think George Lucas’ comment about everyone being a Force user means that anyone can deliberately manipulate the Force if they only believe in themselves, and that justify Anakin wiping out almost the entire Jedi Order, including a roomful of children, by claiming that the number of Jedi were throwing off the Balance. As if the Dark Side needed any help to stay in balance. While I believe they’re entitled to their own personal interpretation, and if that what they believe, then they’re free to believe it, I also know that none of that is what George Lucas intended to convey to the fans. They break the morality that Lucas buried deep in the saga , as he didn’t create it to cater to people who spout New Age rhetoric because they have a beef with established religion. It was a simple story with simple morals that young children could understand. And he wanted it to be accessible to everyone, not a cult classic that would turn most people off when it somehow managed to depict the slaughter of Jedi Younglings and their protectors as a good thing. I don’t believe that Lucas would have had Ahsoka say that the Jedi were a failure, because they were not a failure. I don’t believe that he would have been fine with Anakin’s message being fight to survive, instead of fight for family and friends, especially as it issued from a man who was defined by his close relationships, and even as Vader, had convinced himself that he was still doing good for the galaxy at large. Ahsoka wouldn’t have won the fight. Lucas would have been confident that she could take a major beat down from someone far stronger than her without compromising fan loyalty. He did it with Luke in ESB. So he could definitely do it again. And, seriously, would it have killed them to have Anakin and Ahsoka hug at least once in that scene? They’re practically brother and sister, and they hadn’t seen each for years. Lucas also would have had Ahsoka ask Anakin about killing the Emperor to save his son. Yes, she heard about it from Luke. But she still would have wanted to hear the account from Anakin’s perspective and probe his feelings and motives for why he did what he did when he did it. Lucas would have had Ahsoka test Sabine’s midichlorian count, because he would know there is a difference between Force user and Force-Sensitive, and that if Sabine’s count was too low, she wouldn’t even be able to telekinetically move a pebble Sadly, all the show appears to have proven is that Filoni only writes good Star Wars stories when he’s collaborating with Lucas. Without Lucas, we get Ahsoka. A lot of detractors of the show believe this. However, I’m going to be more charitable and say it might not be Filoni’s talents, or lack there of, that’s actually the problem. He may not be able to write a show that is more true to Lucas’ vision of Star Wars, because he might not be allowed to. The fault may lay with people further up the food chain at Disney, because that’s often been the case for the last ten years. And if he’s up against company mindset, it would be almost impossible for a single person to turn the tide. Even heroes need help for some tasks.
@@winterleia9027 Why would he disagree with the idea that the jedi were failures and responsible for Darth Vader? That was literally the whole point and story of the prequels.
@@Typoh_YT No, that wasn’t the point of the whole story. That’s just the way some people interpret it. But rather than stating my opinion, let’s go straight to the horse’s mouth. George Lucas, Sci-fi online 2005. “ Anakin wants to be a Jedi, but he cannot let go of the people he loves in order to move forward. The Jedi believe that you don’t hold onto things, that you let things pass through you, and that if you can control your greed, you can resolve conflict, not only in yourself, but the world around you because you accept the natural course of things. Anakin’s inability to follow this basic guideline is at the core of his turn to the Dark Side. “ So it wasn’t the Jedi or their teachings that was the problem. It was that Anakin couldn’t even follow what George Lucas said was their most basic teaching. Later he stated. “it was entirely on Anakin. He loveth too much, too possessively. Anakin’s inability to let go of his greed, of his need for power are what made him go from being a good guy to a bad guy.” What he didn’t say was what Dave Filoni said. “Anakin’s inability to let go caused his downfall … but was his way of loving really that wrong or bad? Maybe the reason is because the Jedi were so dispassionate that they didn’t give him the support he needed.” So it’s Dave Filoni’s personal opinion that the Jedi were to blame. Lucas never at any time said that they were to blame, and in fact said the opposite. He stated plain as day that they were the good guys and did what they could to keep Anakin from going down a path to the Dark Side. Anakin was a failure as a Jedi, not that the Jedi Order were a failure. And when he finally figured it all out, when he was finally willing to sacrifice everything for a loved one, that is when he returned to the Light. He knew the moment he picked up Palpatine to throw him over the railing, he was also condemning himself to death. Forget about him and his son ruling together and even cultivating a relationship with Luke, or meeting his daughter with the knowledge that she was his daughter. We don’t even know if he knew who his daughter was before he died. In any case, all he was going to get out of it is the life of his son and a much better chance for his children to have a happy, secure future without a monster like Palpatine around. It was a decision prompted by pure love. Episode 6 is called Return of the Jedi. But Luke didn’t go anywhere and the Jedi Order only went underground. It’s referring to Anakin. So trying to say that the Jedi were a failure is monumentally stupid when the whole first 6 episodes is about the triumph of a Jedi over the Dark Side, with a little help from his son, who was also a Jedi. And there is another reason why saying the Jedi were a failure is not something that Lucas would have had Ahsoka say, which I just alluded to. The Jedi Order did not end with the Old Republic. Like all religions, it is defined by its teachings, not a building on Curoscant. Obi Wan Kenobi was still a Jedi Knight. Yoda was still a Jedi Knight, and Dagobah was as good a place as any for training a Padawan. All they did was lose the battle. But they regrouped and won the war. In the end, the question of the causes for Anakin’s fall are very complex. That why Lucas at certain times sounds like he’s contradicting himself. There’s more than one answer. And he never said there wasn’t a better way. But asserting that the Jedi are solely to blame and that they failed is to display about as much moral sense as a five-year old. People complain about the black and white morality in Star Wars. But I’m starting to suspect that maybe they and Disney are color-blind.
I feel like Dave's best work, the last episodes of Clone Wars, are so good because the main story he needs to tell is already there in Episode III. So all he needed to really do is what he does really good, give the story more depth and a second look on it
@@andrewoid4711 Yes, we can. In normal cases I would look it over except that the video and its content is a 100% contradiction to the video title. He could have titled it "Dave Feloni might be a Fraud" and I would be less annoyed about it. At least that way the title isn't providing a misleading contradiction and the content of the video backs it up. This, despite the info being useful, is just click bate abuse and to be fully frank, I tend to stay clear of channels that fall into a habit of using them. Mike Zero is a bit more of an extreme case but he is a perfect example of what content like this could lead too. There was a time when I respected the guy and his info vids on Star Wars. But no, he took took to using clickbate on a level equivilent to cancer and then topped it all off with shallow videos that 99% of the time would contradict his titles, only to find out by the end that it was all for show to get you past the first five minutes before you start to realize you waisted your time. Again, extreme case, but this is why I stay away from content like this and it took me half an hour to decide to watch this video out of concern that was what I would walk into. Glad I did not, surprised even. Won't be less cautious next time. This creator might not have fallen as low as Mike, but a willingness to do dumb stuff like this is just one of a few steps to do so.
Problem with Disney SW is they are doing stories about SW instead of good stories in the SW galaxy. In the process of their storytelling they are destroying legacy characters and popular EU characters and themes.
Which EU characters has Filloni destroyed? He’s the one who brought Thrawn back to canon. He let us see Luke at his peak… who gives a damn if it was using crappy deepfake shit instead of casting like Sebastian Stan. It was still amazing to finally see Luke gone ape and be a one man army like his dad used to be. He can only fix so much of the damage Disney has done. They have already ensured for example Mara Jade can’t happen because Luke fails and runs away completely out of character. I don’t see how what he;s doing now is not all for the better. And the whole boken Jedi thing seems to be important in setting up the 25k year earlier movie in the high republic or w/e where there are all sorts of Jedi with all sorts of personalities and characters represented by their different colored sabers and designs and they aren’t ridiculous ascetic mannequins but complex people all full of shades of grey.
@@amnesia5490 Thrawn in rebels and Ashoka is nothing like the Thrawn in the books. He can't just say we will always be one step ahead and loss. Baylan is more like Thrawn. Light sabers are lethal it's not like getting stabbed its a bloody heat missile that would evaporate the fluids in your body. The lightsaber fights are meaningless because there is no consequences. Almost everyone lives to fight another day even if they are impaled or cut in half. Force projection isn't lethal in the books, they just did that to kill off the Skywalkers. We aren't seeing Luke in his prime, he's a backdrop. Heir to the Empire is what kept SW alive with fans. No one cares about Rey Palpatine over the age of 7. Everything they are doing is dumbing it down, and making it too repetitive. You are probably right but if they did create Mara Jade and Luke had some lost son or daughter it might redeem the franchise somewhat. It will also explain the LUUKE we saw. Maybe they should try to make that LUUKE. Best thing that could happen now is Ashoka, Ezra, and Sabine get stuck at that galaxy with Baylan and they do some real stories. All these stories are stories about Disney StarWars instead of good stories in the SW galaxy And Palpatine is dead and didn't have children.
@@Meliodas_TheKingRandom to hate on? Literally the FIRST few minutes of Ahsoka, my brain melted. Homie received a whole old Jedi transmission code, believed it was a fake and the people using it were dangerous…and instead of, idk, nuking them from space or doing literally ANYTHING other than letting them onboard his ship, he just…let’s them board his ship. He then takes the weakest security detail in Star Wars history and precedes to greet them, just to tell them to their faces that he thinks they’re lying. And he and his entire crew get slaughtered for it. It was the most idiotic thing in character decision-making I’d seen since Alien: Covenant. What’s worse is that it repeats itself all throughout Ahsoka. There’s always some sort of MacGuffin to get the plot rolling and Sabine idiotically steals it and cracks it at home just because. She then refuses to destroy it after stealing it back despite knowing the risks, let’s her master and friend be “killed”, defects with the enemy that killed her master, is (and I kid you not) HANDED every single thing she could ever want by Thrawn…homie hands her back her supplies, gives her knowledge, gifts her transportation, tells her where to look, and he’s supposed to be some “genius” that’s one step ahead of her by making all these idiotic decisions that don’t benefit him (explain to me how he’s been hunting Ezra for years yet unable to find him, but uses the Witches to locate Ahsoka using their magic? Couldn’t he have located Ezra the same way?) And Sabine somehow just stumbles upon a raccoon-turtle thing that somehow just knows Ezra and somehow she’s just taken directly to him before Ahsoka just somehow reunites with them and every screw up Sabine did is somehow not addressed or mentioned because she suffers no consequences for her actions and has learned absolutely nothing. None of the characters ever learn anything. They never grow. They never have character arcs. Ahsoka, Mando, Boba Fett…all bland protagonists who have no arcs and don’t grow as characters. Even Luke doesn’t have one. He had ONE fan-serviced moment of killing off some robots in a hallway and everyone is excited asf, but in Book of Boba Fett he contributed nothing. He was the blandest, most emotionless teacher 🤦🏾♂️. It was boring asf whenever he got on screen. I could go on but this is already too long. And don’t even get me started on Reva or any of the idiotic character decisions in Obi-Wan.
@@Meliodas_TheKing SW fans find things they dont like because they want better. I havent seen anyone hate on andor other than the people foaming at the mouth for cameos.
This seems like a cautionary tale to any aspiring story tellers. Don't create a story in isolation and actively involve people in the creative process so they can bring you back down to reality.
@@notimportant8643 I don't think it's a binary thing. Some people need collaborators to best realize their potential and others are able to work well on their own without outside interference. My favorite show of all time is Mr Robot, a show that you can acredit most of the positives to one person who wrote and directed every single episode. Filoni though I think we can rule as somebody who needs a collaborator and a writers room to filter his good ideas through, Ahsoka is the first project he's ever done as head writer and what you can see is a lot of amazing ideas but without any spine to them.
@@notimportant8643even folks like Tolkein still wrote letters to friends, and discussed their work with others. This absolutely informed his creative process, and if it didnt hed be a shitty writer. Which he isnt, so....
Andor was out-of-this-world amazing filmmaking, but it flopped as a Star Wars film because Star Wars has attracted to itself fans who want to see cheap fireworks, family soap operas and lots of ewoks.
@@tubeguy4066meanwhile in Kenobi, two stormtroopers are neutralized by getting grabbed then thrown by the helmet. In mandalorian s2, some get cartoonishly crushed by a giant rock ball. What’s your point exactly ? Andor is the only show where the Empire doesn’t feel like a bunch of clown getting ridiculed whenever possible.
“You don’t understand guys! Dave Filoni is gonna save Star Wars!!” Is the equivalent of dc fans saying “No guys, this movie is good! Just wait for the 3 hour directors cut!”
The fact the show was originally supposed to take place between volumes 1 and 2 and the fact the character designs are literally just 3d versions of the 03 2d designs
@@robertogurrola7465 since character designs constitute 100% of an animated show and Filloni had no writing or directing experience before Lucas hired him… except that’s not true. Lucas himself called it a continuation of the 03 show. Also no Ashoka in the 03 show.
What hurts is I can't even say he is the "genius" behind Clone Wars season 7, cause he probably didn't write it. That entire season was laid out before its cancellation, meaning for all we know he simply grabbed up the old drafts, and since no one from that writing team was present, he just passed it off as his own. Now, its a stretch and I know that, but still the fact that's even a possibility disgusts me.
@@Typoh_YT I doubt it to, and I'd rather think he didn't, but I know there were plenty of unfinished episodes that dozens of them had hounded over to work on, so it just makes me... skeptical is all.
This is stupid, all of the episodes not written by him were not included. More prominently the Bounty Hunter arc with Boba and Cad Bane-- the writers not returning is more than likely why those arcs weren’t present and why the season was only twelve episodes compared to the usual twenty episode seasons. Not to mention, season 7 wasn’t intended to be a finale.
You forget the entire reason he was hired was for his writing and directing work on Avatar which is pretty much universally praised. He was directly hired by George Lucas while he still worked at Nickelodeon to develop a Star Wars animated show. He directed the original animated clone wars movie and was the supervising director of the entire clone wars series. He was then the executive producer of Rebels and supervising director of the first two seasons of that. He left for season 3 as he was given the job to oversee all current and future Lucasfilm animation but went right back to directing in S4. Just because you hadn’t heard of him before, but he was around BEFORE the cancellation. He came back after. So you seem to be implying he ripped off himself?
We’ve known since 2010 when in the behind the scenes features for TCW season 2 he confused himself talking in circles about the changes he made to mandalorians. Dude has no idea what he’s doing but he uses the TFA nostalgia strategy to memberberry his way into the hearts of surface level SW fans
If I’m recalling right, the changes to Mandalorians were mostly Lucas’ call, not feloni. I also don’t know why people are so mad about these changes, the clone wars didn’t retcon any Mandalorian canon, considering there never was any canon lore about mandalorians in Star Wars, aside from brief mentions in episode 2. The only “lore” that existed about mandalorians was non canon comics, so Lucas giving us the real mandalorians he envisioned is perfectly reasonable
@@albertanmotorcyclist6419I see a lot of people using old legends continuity as a major knock to filoni but to me and to Lucas himself it's never really been something that mattered that much. Before the prequels came out there was all kinds of lore that was retconned or contradicted by Lucas telling his story without restraint. I think it's fine to love and value those old stories but to me, I'm always gonna consider what i can actually see and watch as canon over a comic book or a novel.
@@Typoh_YTyes but George had respect for these people and didn’t completely de canonize everything I guess the difference is respect. I respect George Lucas I don’t respect Beijing throating Disney.
@@Typoh_YTwhile lots of the old EU was fun it truly was between bad to high quality fan fiction. The Thrawn trilogy being genuinely the only thing that would almost entirely have seamlessly fit into the canon as a perfect sequel to Episodes 4-6. An extremely competent admiral working to unite the shattered empire. While using many of the very tactics that destroyed the empire against the rising new Republic was a brilliant story arc.
@@sgt.squirtle2528there was more than just Heir to the Empire in the EU, but as you pretty much said it was like pulling a gacha to pull out a marvel out of a ton of dirt.
@@paulgrangergranger8256 y’all „I ask someone who has a different opinion than me on a irrelevant subject for their age to implicate that they’re wrong“ mfs are weird af
We have given him an unfair image in our head. As far as i know hes never claimed any of this. Part of me does kinda worry that it might end negatively for Filoni. We are putting expectation on him and giving him credit for things he didnt do.
it's rather impressive how many star wars shows filoni is tied to and how many of them turn to mediocre to bad these days without anyone to tell him no.
Filoni is also tied to the very best SW has released since George stopped making movies. Is as if mediocre to bad started happening since Disney taking over and has happened to anything Filoni made or not, Star Wars franchise or otherwise. What would be the common denominator? Hmmmm....
@@TheSilverwolf97 you do need to keep in mind Filoni had quite a bit of other people working with him on Clone Wars. Now that it's just him, I'd say he's had a lot of his weaknesses as a writer exposed over time.
Well, he moved on from smaller animated shows to flagships of Disney+, I bet my ass that he is being checked more harshly by the Mouse, which has consistently ruined every franchise they own by playing safe.
Playing devils advocate here, but he really deeply cares about HIS characters as well his filming aspirations, so he’s trying to stay on Kathleen Kennedy’s good side until she leaves.
Ahsoka is a show that has so many ideas that could naturally come forward, but its like the show is holding itself back, subscribed to mediocriticy. - Ahsoka struggling with the weight of being Darth Vader's apprentice is fantastic if we actually see her struggle with that. Instead it is just told to us, half way through the show as an excuse to trot out Hayden as Anakin. Which yes, was cool to see again, but it is a cameo for the sake of the cameo. No one can even agree what fucking lesson he taught and I doubt Dave even knows. - Ezra has been lost in another galaxy for YEARS and is totally okay seeing Sabine walking into town despite it making his sacrifice worthless. Ezra should be shocked and afraid to see Sabine because if she is here that means there is a way back and if there is a way back then Thrawn will use it. Ezra should be horrified at what Sabine has done. - Sabine literally betraying Ahsoka and dooming the galaxy to see a friend again has 0 consequence to her character. She isn't reprimanded for it, she doesn't suffer for it and even Thrawn's eventual victory doesn't feel like a victory more of a "Woof, that was close. Just slipped by" - Hera brings her son to a potential active combat zone (SERIOUSLY WHY?) without approval from the New Republic who're seemingly being made overly incompetent to make it more believable that the First Order happened. But Hera gets let off the hook because "Leia says its fine". Imagine if the super important New Republic council has an Empire spy in deep cover that gets exposed at that meeting due to Leia snooping. A lot more impactful than "Leia says its okay" -Thrawn is "smart" but seems to constantly blunder his way through the show. Everything he does the heroes manage to slip by and then he is like "Aha, this was my plan all along". Like apparently stalling them by keeping them busy in combat so they can load their cargo and prepare to leave. But then sticking around long enough for the heroes to trek on "alien-horseback" to their base, infiltrate said base and then get stopped by comically inconsistent zombie troopers... Like they're desperate for us to think of him as a threat, but he seems just incompetent. The best part of this show is Baylan and Shin and they're criminally underused and with the passing of Ray Stevenson, I seriously doubt they'll end up doing his character justice going forward.
Well if you've watched much Star Wars stuff you'll notice a trend with Filonis shows first season kinda sucks, but I chalk that up to him just setting everything into motion so he can go hard with it later. Which he does go quite hard. So much bitching about Filoni, but GAWD DAMN they are on some shit, some Disney hate-train shit or something cause TCW past the first 2 seasons was some of the best writing I've ever seen and Rebels past season 1 was absolutely spectacular.
The writing for Ahsoka reflects most of what's said here. She stands around, watching everyone else as the plot whirls around them, arms crossed and looking smug. Then she speaks, saying something that should be profound but is actual nonsense. Ahsoka is Filoni on screen, right down to being mentored by greatness, but ultimately failing harder than any other figure in the franchise.
Ahsoka sucks post TCW mostly because her character arc has been completed (three times if we want to get picky). Ahsoka's charisma and wits were sacrificed for Filonni's obsession with turning her into a Gandalf type of character.
I've been having this creeping feeling that I don't actually like Filoni's work, but it's constantly pushed back by the fact I loved the Clone Wars. I think this video helps highlight the fact that yeah... these shows are a group effort. Maybe the guy's not reeeally all that great of a writer, but I'm sure he still has a lot to offer these projects. For me, though, I started to lose interest with Rebels, and Ahsoka is giving me very similar feelings.
READ THE EU. You'll see that TCW was a middling, poor man's imitation of better stories, like the Republic comics, or the Dark Lord Trilogy, or the Darth Bane books, or others.
He should stick to cartoons, that's what he's been good at. As always George deserves praise for creating this IP we all love so much. His idea to bring back Maul is absolutely GENIUS!
@@emptyblank099a In a galaxy where General Grievous can be rebuilt after surviving a shuttle explosion and Vader after having three limbs chopped off and burnt to a crisp, Maul surviving isn't outlandish. It's a far more interesting choice than what you'd choose for the character.
@@reddeaddude2187Anakin got medical help immediately. Maul was alive despite being in half for 10 YEARS. And he has survived falling all the way down And Vader only survived because he's already been established to still be alive by the OT. Not to mention he was literally the most powerful force user so he should be the likeliest to survive George Lucas is overrated
I am turned off by the idea that I have to watch 3 separate series (Mando, BOBF, Ahsoka) to catch up with the mandouniverse. I don't understand why they don't try to make a large Game of Thrones style series that can cover multiple plot points throughout its seasons. Imagine if you had to watch HBO: The Lannisters, HBO: The Starks and HBO: Daenerys just to catch up with all the plots. It's insanity what Disney is doing and they seem to be stuck in a 1980s television mindset.
Filoni, in all reality, would probably be a better assistant manager at Lucasfilms than any kind of creative visionary. Just, someone to keep things on-brand.
I lost respect for Dave for what seems like his desire to make the Empire out to be the biggest morons who couldn’t defeat a bunch of Girl Scouts selling cookies. There has never been a moment in a Disney show (outside of Andor, obviously), where I thought the Empire was menacing or competent. Stormtroopers die in the hundreds of thousands to one character, and we’re supposed to think Thrawn is going to be a threat when he’s relying on them still? The Dark Troopers didn’t kill anyone. Moff Gideon didn’t have any impact on anything. The Zombie Stormtroopers are the only time the heroes flee from the enemy? The only way the Empire wins is through Darth Vader or the Death Star, and with those gone…
Star Wars should have ended with Empire Strikes Back. Even if it never end, the worst think about star wars are the immature, spoiled fans. Including the maker of this video. Y'all need to grow up. It's just a movie.
@@johnnygoodman2003A franchise, actually. Not a movie. A franchise with established canon and lore. If anything, you need to grow up if your standards for a movie is "It's no big deal, because it's not real". Because here's what is real: Good writing. Which is what we want.
Note that all the stupid stuff for Mandalorian is mainly from S3 because they didn’t commit to the idea of Din no longer having Grogu, and becoming the actual Mandalore
That really annoyed me too I love Grogu but that ship should've sailed that story arc fulfilled and the fact Mando played such a background role which I know was because of Pascal's unavailability due to the last of us tv show but they should've delayed it cause the bigger plot was a big nothing burger
@@ammonite0257yeah, but disney star wars is so devoid of creativity and interesting directions for star wars. Even just having him pitch ideas and giving a few pointers would be a massive benefit at this point
@@ridgenyan-botxv367 I’ll give you that. If I can give the prequels on thing it’s that they’re actually different from the OT. He could’ve easily made a similar movie and nobody would’ve said anything.
@@Theosake the prequels were original in concepts. But the dialogue was atrocious, characters made no sense, and the writing wasted so much of the characters potential.
Actually George lucas was heavily involved in the EU and despite what some idiots say he considered it canon, Lucasfilm made a canon hierarchy. Aayla secura was in the comics and George Lucas put her in Revenge of the Sith because he liked her. He also liked Quinlan Vos in the comics so much that he told the comic writers not to kill him off. Lucas also told Tom Veitch to bring the Emperor back in Dark Empire. He also approved of a lot of decisions in the books like, Mara Jade marrying Luke, killing off Anakin solo, and he also told the authors not to kill off Luke, Leia and Han. He also told writers to make tales of the Jedi about ancient Jedi instead of the origins of Anakin Skywalker.
Bingo. If he didn't want the overall brand to have consistency, why spare Vos in one of the comics? Just do what you want with him in TCW or Underworld. But that... thing Filoni gave us is NOT Quinlan Vos! No way.
George Lucas did consider the EU canon. The EU is second canon next to G-Canon. I don't respect Dave Filoni or Disney. Their production isn't canon, and should not be adhered to.
As much as I loved the Clone Wars and how Ahsoka grew as a person/character in said show, you're right about this. I understand that I was giving Filoni too much credit
Yup. Everything else has been shit ever since. Especially the more Filoni has been involved. Even as the Mandalorion was going on I noticed the episodes that he directed were by far the worst in the show. I used to think he was a genius too, but slowly and surely I've realized he's not. He's actually a detriment.
This really shines a light on things. I wonder if everyone who thought Filonni would save Star Wars also thought the Clone Wars was mostly written by him.
Dave does play favorites with Ahsoka but people claim Disney Star Wars is making her the most important character in Disney Star Wars. She was never established or treated as the most important character. For the most part she has been on the sidelines in most storylines and doesn’t really save the day so I never got this criticism. I don’t think it’s a matter of Filoni making her the “answer” & more of a matter of certain fans that want her dead because they didn’t want her character to keep living for whatever personal reasons they have or they never liked her character to begin with and wished her time alive was short. Either way Ahsoka isn’t the most important character in Star Wars under Filoni because ultimately so far what has she done that has impacted The Galaxy? She helped out The Rebellion, New Republic a couple of times. She teamed up with surviving force users. She met Luke. Only for The Rebellion & New Republic to fail, Luke becomes Jake and his Jedi Order dies, most surviving force users by the point of the sequels are missing or dead. So what did Ahsoka contribute to The Galaxy in Disney Canon? I can’t think of many things. She tries to help out but clearly even in her own show she keeps failing to do even that. So all this aside I don’t see the narrative that Ahsoka became the savior of anything, & I’m sorry if I make some EU fans or Anti Filoni fans upset but her simply existing doesn’t harm Star Wars. You think Ahsoka contradicts Yoda’s line to Luke in episode 6 well your wrong because even after The OT Ahsoka doesn’t consider herself a Jedi, and yes according to George Lucas for his plans on The Sequel Trilogy & even your precious EU novels there were a shit ton of surviving former Jedi or force users after Order 66. Ahsoka doesn’t take from Luke’s story either. She’s helping out some members in The New Republic from stopping Thrawn but In Disney Canon Luke chose to spend his days rebuilding The Jedi Order like his masters told him too, he’s focused on bringing back The Jedi Order not fighting threats across the Galaxy of course they later ruin this shit with Jake Skywalker in The Last Jedi but once again Ahsoka took nothing away from Luke’s character in this canon or any canon for that matter. This isn’t even a biased take because to me I preferred it if she died in Clone Wars or Rebels but I have no issues with her alive. If you want to blame Disney Star Wars’s problems on anyone it’s the people behind Disney Star Wars but Ahsoka honesty has nothing to do with this. Her existence is due to the one person a lot of these people claim to respect , George Lucas. He’s the one who told Filoni Anakin had a Padawan, like it or not EU & Anti Filoni Fans Ahsoka is a George Lucas character. He created her and yes Dave did take her in a direction George didn’t agree by keeping her alive but George chose to go with Filoni’s idea. He also chose to let her live when he had complete control of Lucasfilm and was Filoni’s boss so to me her living was also still George approved regardless of how anyone feels about her surviving.
I would say it probably feels she is the most important because she has been in the most stuff. Clone wars, rebels, Mandalorian, Ashoka Show, Tales of the Jedi, and one or two other things. Every new major show usually has ties to her and she is the only one right now with actual stakes in her story.
Well said! But Heir to the Empire has Luke fighting Thrawn and I feel like it’s just stupid they can’t have Luke fight threats but only rebuild the Jedi! We should see Luke and Ahsoka fighting Thrawn and doing some rebuilding of the Jedi! Imagine seeing a young Ben Solo, Luke and Ahsoka and Force Ghost Anakin together. Plus I’m glad you called out some of the annoying EU fanboys who always whine about Filoni and Ahsoka. I keep telling them so many times that the EU may not have always been canon and that George wasn’t consistent with his words. He would change his mind a lot. Proof? He said there’s no Episode 7 but then we find out about his sequel treatments. But I blame the dude for taking the “hate” he got seriously with the Prequels.
@@Lord_Arcann It hard to see that when despite her appearances what she does doesn’t really impact the major events of Galaxy, or anyone else, that may change with their Hier to the Empire Dave Filoni movie I think is coming out but so far Ahsoka is a sideline character in every sense of the word.
@@TheEgyptianGamerGeek I do believe Luke & Ahsoka should’ve teamed up and dealt with Thrawn throughout her Ahsoka show. Luke & Ahsoka could’ve helped Sabine find Ezra and we could’ve seen Luke recruiting all three of them as well as any other surviving Jedi like Cal to help rebuild The Jedi Order like George Lucas had planned in his sequel trilogy. Honestly Luke should’ve been in Ahsoka from the beginning. As a matter of fact her going to him for help on uncovering the ball map made a lot more sense then Sabine. Sabine & Ahsoka should’ve been still looking for Ezra from The beginning of the show we didn’t need to see them separate only to unite again. It would make more sense and strengthen Sabine’s poor decision to sacrifice the Galaxy to find Ezra later. So I do agree with you but I’m explaining what Disney Star Wars decided to go with.
As I always continue to say, expecially to those that like TCW but dislike Rebels, The Clone Wars had a variety of different writers for its episodes. Rebels was almost exclusively written by Filoni. Edit: Commented before watching, lol
Dave is just a big fan. He does understand it but he just can’t do it. Same way you can understand basketball down to its fundamentals from the sidelines. Getting on the court and playing is a whole different situation.
George was involved with the comics and books to a degree often reading them giving feedback and advice that for the most part was taken. Plus the original Clone Wars as well more faithful to the characters and the film's and fits in a lot better whilst TCW kind of just meandered about betraying the war as a series of skirmishes on the Outer Rim rather than the bloody conflict that it was. There are more references to what was canon not the time aka the old expanded universe and if you go looking you will find a surprising amount of reference from books, comics and games. It honestly makes TCW stand out like a sore thumb and feel like an afterthought. Especially with the amount of retconning it does to the films. Don't even get me started on the damage that show did to the EU because that has already been well-documented.
That is not true. Lucas gave feedback to people writing EU material and gave vague guidelines. However, he never considered the EU canon, he viewed it as an “other” that was a possible version of Star Wars, but was clear anything he did could contradict anything found in the EU.
@@albertanmotorcyclist6419 yes but it didn't stop him from referencing it and using elements from it such as Coruscant which was a name derived from Heir to the Empire which was written by Timothy Zahn or the Border dispute that Anakin and Obi-Wan are coming back from in the beginning of Attack of the Clones which was the entire novel The approaching storm.
@albertanmotorcyclist6419 Lucas considered the EU canon, and Lucasfilm said that the EU was canon, they even made a canon hierarchy with the 6 films on top as G canon, the EU comics, games and novels as C canon and the 70s/80s marvel comics as S canon
@@albertanmotorcyclist6419 I don't think he was deliberately setting out to rewrite the EU for TCW with how much it takes from the EU, and George admits he isn't familiar with most of it, I just think that was Filoni, and George trusting him to know more than he did, but as he's proven in recent years, he knows less about Star Wars than the average ignorant Filoni groupie makes him out to be.
The production and imagination put into this video is inspiring. Forget the subject matter, the way you put this video together is really engaging and stands out. Great job on this.
Filoni is such a hack and it’s been painfully obvious from the start. He wants to see himself as Lucas’ apprentice Jedi style but he’s actually a traitorous Sith apprentice that stabbed his master in the back and stole his empire. All his characters lack depth that a child could figure out how to implement. He’s drifted so far from what an actual Star Wars fan is and it’s honestly sickening to watch him peddle someone else’s stories, worlds and characters as if he’s some avant guard genius and not a piss poor hack from the backwater of creative deficit.
Star Wars should have ended with Empire Strikes Back. Even if it never end, the worst think about star wars are the immature, spoiled fans. Including the maker of this video. Y'all need to grow up. It's just a movie.
I think fraud is far too strong a term- Filoni has made some great SW content. But he is a creator with his own quirks and downsides and shouldn't be the sole person in charge of the EU, let alone be considered some kind of saviour.
Filoni calls himself an EU fan, yet he has no respect for other artists, and thinks it's great if what he does is different to the EU, then plays it up during interviews to claim he _doesn't_ want to change it. "Fraud" works because he's lied before.
Finally, a video about the recent rise of Filoni’s takeover that explains exactly the hollowness I felt about Ashoka. I’ve been getting tired of the jerk off fest of this first season, which was great in a lot of ways, but lacked most of all: good writing. I’ve been relying on TH-cam videos to explain the context of all of the little things referenced in the show that were never explained, but need to be known from a deep knowledge or memory of the clone wars and rebels.
Terry gilliam said in in an Interview that even him is totally intimidated by the amount of money thrown at him and it sorly tempts you to play safe with all that responsibility
@@s.patterson5698 it's stupid that some of the defense that I see for Dave and ahsoka is "well it's better than the sequels" and "Dave was a student of George Lucas and he knows star wars better than anyone else at Lucasfilm"
Everyone complains that rey is a Mary Sue, which is true. But honestly Dave filoni is the king of making Mary Sue characters. Sabine stands out as a truly ridiculous character. Mando literally wears his plot armor. Ezra in rebels fits the bill a lot of the time. Even ahsoka was bashed as a Mary Sue at first, till the backlash forced the clone wars team to tone her down and turn her into a genuinely good character.
Dave Filoni is, and always was, a talentless hack. But history vindicates me once more. I said this ever since Clone Wars first happened, and everybody told me how wrong I was and how awesome Filoni is and how good Clone Wars was. Star Wars is the deadest of all horses and Filoni is a fanfiction writer.
Finally someone here I can agree with. Filoni’s work is praised way to much by to many people. And I wouldn’t hate his work as much as I do if it wasn’t some of the most overrated bull crap shows I’ve seen out of Star Wars.
Just wanna make a quick note about Marrock, that evil green fart cloud is not only a reference to the other instances of night sister magic such as the ritual they performed on Savage, it also is the part of his character that's actually setup. Yknow, for the troopers working under Thrawn and Captain Enoch. Plus when this show inevitably gets a season 2 maybe Marrock comes back who knows. I don't think Filoni is immune to any fault like some fans might claim, but even in live action where he lacks expertise he still put out a pretty substantial final product and may play much less safe in the future given the opportunity. I also think that he shouldn't be allowed to do anything if he doesn't have Sam Witwer in the room bc that guy is literally the Huyang of knowing stuff about the franchise and has on multiple occasions been the reason that certain critical decisions for the writing of the show have been made correctly. Give him Henry Gilroy too. That trifecta in a writer's room full of people who are excited to be working on Star Wars would give us some wonderful content
I think many Star Wars fans need to see this video, it's a team effort, and even Lucas didn't do everything, he brought his vision, which is a great vision don't get me wrong, he's an amazing storyteller, but even Lucas tired of directing, he only directed one movie and realized that he couldn't do everything, that he needed a good team Empire Strikes Back, the best Star Wars movie, has an amazing director, an amazing writer, an amazing second unit, and amazing actors who actively made fixes to their own dialogue because we know how infamous Lucas is writing humans lol
“I’m not calling the guy a fraud or anything” literal name of the video is Dave Filoni is a FRAUD. You clearly made this video just for clicks, to have this hot take to get attention. When in reality all you did was state the obvious that it wasn’t just him that made things he was involved in good. Well done for that
Thank freaking goodness. I’ve been seeing so many comments/commentaries over the recent Star Wars content being credited as “Dave Filoni’s genius work” when it’s always a team effort. It especially bothered me most when people solely mentioned him when The Bad Batch came out even though it was clear that other people were in charge. It’s good to have videos like these out there to sweep out common misconceptions and to remind fans everywhere how it all truly is. I salute you good sir!
@@lingricen8077 I mean "most content" as in the literal official Star Wars shows and whatnot and how they're called by fans as solely Dave Filoni's work. Yes there are a lot of videos recently also blaming Dave Filoni and calling him a hack. I should have noted that as well. I just mean to refer to Dave Filoni being exclusively noted in general (good and bad). Apologies for the misstep in clarification. Basically, I'm just saying that this is one of the few instances I've seen where someone thoroughly makes a huge note that not everything is Dave Filoni's doing (good AND bad).
@@willisstillhere8846 THAT’S… actually true lol. I mean yeah sure he had his hands on so much and especially in the prequels but certainly not everything. You got me there good sir!
Thank you for putting my thoughts into words. I too have been contemplating how Filoni could create a great show like the clone wars but then drop the ball and deliver a shallow, incoherent and uninspired series like Ahsoka
@@yonkadingo3683 are u trying to discredit a guy who’s worked hard for the fans of Star Wars with no examples except calling him “overrated” lmao I’m sure ur a sequels fan
@@mac4118 Yeah, well it sucks. Just because you want to do good by the fans doesn’t mean it’s automatically good. Also, it’s a vocal minority that likes the show. All signs point to everyone hates it. So keep coping 🤣
In a different context and with a lot of set-up those Vader/Anakin scenes/visions could have worked in Ahsoka. Imagine Ahsoka being in a position where she wants to do something objectively good with emotional bearing on her and the audience, but that action requires her to tap into the dark side of the force and as such confronts her with the struggle of Anakin, who also wanted something objetively good, saving Padme and facing the path that has lead him to. You can do a lot with Ahsoka and for some reason all of it has been ignored in favor of...nothing?
He’s literally just an emotionally and mentally stunted 14 year old playing with his older brothers Star Wars figures and his little sisters Barbie he painted orange. The Clone Wars is a decent KIDS show, but it’s not even remotely close to canon. The fact that we gave this developmentally disabled bro dude any amount of storytelling power in this series is just shameful. Also even the “best” arcs of SWTCW are nonsensical canon breaking dreck
As someone who only consider legends as canon, im laughing out loud to star wars fans that unironicly hrdly try to think of disney star wars version as something good 😂
Everyone blames Dave for the clone wars.. when lucas created it made Ahsoka and made her Anakins Padawan and people blame Dave for it. There hate is clouded by the truth.
George was pretty hands-off for lore decisions if you look at the commentaries for the older Clone Wars Microseries, I'm fairly confident the same held true for TCW and George just trusted Filoni to know the lore more than he actually did.
Filoni has done a terrible job with star wars. 1st season of Mando was fun, everything else since then has been pretty abysmal. Book of Boba Fett was god awful, Obi wAN was dreadful, aSHOka isn't much better, Mando season 2 was bad and season 3 was worse. Filoni isn't doing star wars any favors. He's not making anything worth watching.
Nice, very nice. Finally people are starting to realize what I pointed out years ago. Filoni was never Lucas apprentice. You've got people like John Knoll there, Katie Lucas, Henry Gilroy and all of the people who actually seem to understand what Star Wars is about being completely IGNORED. While Filoni openly changed most of George's decisions for Season 6, 7 and 8 is praised. Things ike the death of Ahsoka, her love interests, her life outside the temple; was all changed as soon as George left. The new show "Rebels" made by the same team of writers of The Clone Wars, conveniently changed the Galaxy into all of the things Filoni wanted. Which makes me think it was his hand on the cancellation of the show, not Kathleen Kennedy.
This is exactly like The DCAU situation, how Bruce Timm basically gets all the credit with fans ignoring all the other crew members who contributed to most of the shows success like Alan Burnett and Paul Dini (who also ironically worked on TCW). Also when you give Bruce Timm full creative control you end up with projects like Batman The Killing Joke and Batman & Harley Quinn.
Videos like these is what gives me hope that perhaps all is not lost and there are still some fans left who care about writings and character building rather than just nostalgia baiting and cameos.
Inaccurate, just plain wrong. He was hired sometime after May, 2005, when Revenge of the Sith ended and George decided we needed to return to expand on the Microseries, except Filoni never did that.
I wish there was more animated projects, i miss the voice actors that played the characters i love. And i think the fight sequences and dialogue have all been all been better done in the animated medium than the last few years projects.
dave should stick to supervision. i genuinely believe that if he simply scouts and gets good writers on board, he could do so much more than what we're currently used to.
Dave Filoni loves star wars so much he repeated how George made the prequels. Got celebrated individually for his great work of many many people, was given money and the proper position to do whatever he wanted. Then fell flat from it because he didn't surround himself with as many people who helped make the originals.
Funnily enough, while watching Ahsoka I kept thinking that it felt like a Star Wars product made by people who love the prequels. That being represented in the wooden dialogue, bad acting directions, hyperfocus on dumping lore, the slowest passing possible and overdependance on connections to previous works.
Filoni has fallen from a great height in my eyes. I was impressed to start with, then after finishing Ahsoka it just came across as a very hollow show, all pizazz with no true story. It was 8 episodes of finding Nemo, sorry Ezra ... then ... that's it ?! As an old time SW fan having seen the origjnal in a cinema in 1977, I feel betrayed by Filoni now ... where everyone is a Jedi force wielder and the classic characters are ignored in the main.
I am sure you won't pin me.
Guess again
lmao
@@Typoh_YT oh I didn't even see this bruh
@Typoh_YT The Clone Wars Series 7 also had the Martez sister arc by Filoni one of the worst ever
@@geraintthatcher3076 another knock to him lol
Its almost like Dave is really, REALLY good at the job he was originally hired to do and then given a job he wasnt good at. Happens alot in all areas of life unfortunately.
Peter Principle
Except the animated shows actually aren't really, REALLY good. They are just "fine."
@@FullMetalBThey are some of the best Star Wars. The last episodes of clone wars are in the imdb top 25
@@FullMetalBtrying so hard to be different 💀
@@LOADINGSPECS For having a different opinion? And a moderate one at that? Please tell me you genuinely aren't that weak.
"I'm not calling [Dave Filoni] a fraud"
*Literally writes "Dave Filoni is a fraud" for the title*
It's a search engine optimized title
@@thefollower2933 doesn't make it not dishonest.
Glad someone else pointed this out.
Zero respect for content creators who do shit like this just to bolster their viewership.
@@ClaytonBigsby93this dude is just another video essay content farmer. I remember when TH-cam launched his first video on smiling friends into everyone’s recommended feed. He’s clearly doing something to manipulate the algorithm
It's clickbait bullshit
Besides Andor, the streaming shows have done so much more to kill my enthusiasm for Starwars than a few bad movies ever did
No offense bro but I call cap. Because if the sequel trilogy were all bangers, these mid tv shows wouldn’t hurt the brand as much. It’s a combination of both that are hurting Star Wars
@@ammonite0257 I’m just giving my personal perspective. I’ve never felt more like starwars was a dead franchise with nothing new to offer then I did after watching Mando S2, Kenobi, and BoBF
@@andrewvideogames Same. I was very excited for Mando, but while I was watching it, something clicked, and I realized that it was just meh, and I haven't been able to get into Star Wars since then.
@@ilikesnow7074 I didn’t really dig S1 but it seemed promising enough. It was when we got to S2, and the show seemed more concerned with jingling external characters in our face that I really started to question if this whole media project was something I wanted to stay invested in. The Luke ending had me fuming
@@ammonite0257you’re right. It’s cumulative
He literaly invented time travel to keep Ahsoka alive ...
And Geroge has literally invented Green Fantasy Magic to resurrect Darth Maul. The Apprentice clearly learned from the Master. Both of them should not be allowed to write anything for Star Wars anymore.
@@TurKlackresurrecting maul is nothing next to the stupid shenanigans of Filoni to push his own character 😂
@@TurKlack bro resurrection is better than straight up time travel
@@cesruhf2605He wasn't resurrected he lived for more than a decade before getting rescued and brought back to full strength with magic which in my opinion is worse than time travel despite the fact that everybody's favourite discord mod only did it to give his kitten more screen time
@@JacktheStripper-tc5pn bro time travel is also magic. the force is basically magic. jedis are basically wizards. how is healing magic so destructive to this franchise?
For Clone Wars, I think it had two major things going for it:
1. It was on cartoon network and the plots didn't need to be as tight or coherent. Filoni's pretty wooden dialogue was often compensated for by the animators who knew how to actually bring the characters and their models to life. Silly-seeming plot holes and poorly written conflict could be more easily forgiven because it was a cartoon meant for kids, but there were some pretty good plots over the years.
2. George was still around. For Clone Wars, George was still in charge at Lucasfilm and was there to help dave and supervise. I think Clone wars worked in a way of using established characters to tell a story that just worked in a way that his subsequent attempts never did. Clone wars was an anthology series that borrowed from a large cast of characters to fill in the gaps between the first three movies. It told a lot of interesting stories, featured many different Jedi, and never spent too much place in one time.
I hate to say it but I think Dave's lack of grounding with George watching over him really showed in the Bad Batch and Rebels, which lost much of their tightness and instead focused on a single core group of people. I hate to say it, but his lack of directing skills with live action really have showed in the shows he's been a part of---particularly Ahsoka. His wooden dialogue, in the hands of an incompetent director and actors who haven't been given good direction is revealed rather abjectly for what it is: stilted, wooden, crappy dialogue devoid of emotion. He doesn't have the crutch of his animators to lean on in order to help cover that fact over.
Filoni is a Cartoon Network level writer.
Problem is there no writing talent at Disney Lucasfilm, and they largely, arrogantly, ignore the well written content that came before them.
Hell, didn't Kathleen Kennedy state that Star Wars didn't have books/comics to draw from, like Marvel does?
How does she have a job at, nevermind lead Lucasfilm?
ive been telling people for years since i was like 15 that KATHLEEN KENNEDY IS THE ISSUE. she has fumbled every single thing she's ever been seriously a part of
She did because Disney has ego that is why they threw out EU/ Legends
Filoni earned his job based on his writing and directing work on Avatar and was directly picked by George Lucas whom he is still in contact with. Why you think you know better than him is beyond me.
Also… the clone wars WAS a Cartoon Network show lol.
@amnesia5490 clone Wars the later version including S 7 is Filoni as is Rebels... I personally think he's the savior while I admit I don't like everything as I said in another comment got no problem with Ashoka in fact love her compared to Ms Mary Sue never used the force or a Saber yet wins..... Ashoka especially as they can appear as Force Ghosts is looked out for By Ani, potentially and highly likely Obi and quite possibly even Yoda... that said Ashoka is 10x better than Rey for sure
Dave Filoni is a co writer & co storyteller, and a director supervisor but he is a Creative Collaborator, not a sole creator of Star Wars tv shows or content in general. People took this man and made a god out of him because he played a heavy role in the storytelling department and supervising department but he is a collaborator at the end of the day who works well when teaming up with others. His best work will always be with George. Outside of George his flaws start to show more.
George or Henry Gilroy, a lot of the best parts of Rebels and Clone Wars were concieced of by him
@@Typoh_YT I’d say put George Lucas, Dave Filoni & Henry Gilroy in a room and the three would craft great Star Wars projects that keep this franchise alive. Honestly George is the great visionary, creator, storyteller & writer who can do impressive story crafting and character creating, of course he has had help and collaborated with others but his work on his own alone is impressive, Dave Filoni is a good student at mimicking this style while implementing his own ideas and trying to tie in any EU related stuff he can (because ironically despite the hate he gets from parts of The EU side of The Fandom he was The Top EU fanboy cheerleader in TCW’s writing room), Henry Gilroy similar to Lawrence Kasdan & other collaborators to Lucas had a great way of fleshing out the execution of Lucas’s , Filoni’s & others ideas when it came to writing Star Wars stories. One thing you do have to learn about movies & shows in Hollywood is often how storytelling & writing aren’t always a 1 to 1 process. The Official Credited Writer alone very often isn’t the only person involved in the story crafting or character arcs. Despite their being 1 or 2 writers for a movie or episode of a show you’d be surprised how collaborative the effort it takes to put together stories and then have them executed on a script. Listening to story conferences between George Lucas, Stephen Spielberg & Lawrence Kasdan alone when discussing all their ideas for the stories & characters in Indiana Jones proves how this works, even the conversions Lucas & Leigh had during the early production of Empire Strikes Back or when Lucas collaborated with his friends about his ideas , stories & characters for A New Hope and how’d they give up advice about how to execute his ideas better. Even one person like George Lucas, Or Dave Filoni is spearheading the story, came up with the concept , etc they have help from others to make what they do. Storytelling in entertainment in general is mostly collaborative and even in most solo works that focus on the vision of a single individual artist show how they still collaborate with others during the creative stages. So while this was an interesting video I’d say look beyond what you see in the credits of projects on wikis or Imdb , look into the productions , writers room recordings etc because you’d be surprised how collaborative storytelling really is whether it’s a group creation or solo creation. George Lucas did most of the writing and storytelling for All Six Of The Star Wars Films whether he had collaborative help or did it solely on his own but despite the amount of work he put into all of it especially Empire Strikes Back he opted for Leigh Brackett & Lawrence Kasdan to get the only writing credits for Empire despite him putting more into Empire’s story then either of them. Lawrence Kasdan for the most part just polished Lucas’s dialogue & Leigh wrote a very interesting first draft of Empire that Lucas rejected and rewrote himself despite him being a massive fan of her past work as a famous sci fi author & script writer for movies as well as her being a massive fan of his work on Star Wars. Despite all that alone when she passed away shortly after Empire released he gave her & Kasdan full writing credit. He also gave Irvin Kirshner full director’s credit when he had to film portions of Empire because Irvin got sick at times. I say this story because it shows how official credits from not just Hollywood projects but any projects are often very surface level and don’t paint the whole picture of what goes into the creative process of our favorite entertainment. This isn’t to take away credit from Henry Gilroy or George Lucas, or Dave Filoni, it’s to show that things are a lot more complicated and filled with nuance then we realize. This also part of why the drama behind Stan Lee being seen as The Sole creator of many attributes to marvel ends with people praising him as a God or claiming he’s a fraud when in reality like Dave Filoni & most people in the Industry he’s a creative collaborator of a team that made something great, the audience turn them into Gods in their eyes and when they look into the creative process are shocked by how non cut & dry the creative process is.
@@bendu8282we need an overhaul of film credits to actually properly show everyone's contributions.
Hire a couple of good versatile writers and directors would be a good start.
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о I agree.
i think most fandoms have the problem of attributing everything they like to one person when it's always a team effort. Love that there's a video to set the record straight and I hope more people get to see this
I mean that’s the fandoms fault, not Filloni. Dude is humble as hell. He outright thought he was being pranked when they first called him to do TCW. And he’s always gotten feedback from George and whatnot with everything he’s doing trying to be faithful to the original intent (unlike say Rian Johnson who was so focused on subverting expectations that he assassinated the character of one of Star Wars biggest heroes and many kids childhood idols/hero’s and even made sure to undo every bit of setup from the first movie in the trilogy he was a part of. He’s a great director, but he shouldn’t be involved with franchises that aren’t his own. He clearly lacks the ability to respect them).
People complain about things like the World between Worlds, but it seems to me like it’s based on the Whills from the early drafts of Star Wars as they were beings that were supposed to exist outside of time. And Lucas was there and signed off on all of it. If you actually read/listen to anything about George’s original plans for the future of Star Wars, it’s super clear what’s happening in Ahsoka now is the only content in Star Wars right now truly trying to explore that larger world.
Yes, he likes wolves, but who cares? Heck, his use of their names is increasingly creative as Hati and Skoll are both sons of Fenrir, Hati his he who hates and Skoll is he who mocks. And both are perfectly fitting of their characters.
Sorry, but I don’t believe that Lucas would like what they’re doing in the Ahsoka show. It caters to a segment of the fanbase who believe that the Jedi were evil failures and apparently more responsible for Anakin’s downfall than either Palpatine or Anakin himself, that think George Lucas’ comment about everyone being a Force user means that anyone can deliberately manipulate the Force if they only believe in themselves, and that justify Anakin wiping out almost the entire Jedi Order, including a roomful of children, by claiming that the number of Jedi were throwing off the Balance. As if the Dark Side needed any help to stay in balance.
While I believe they’re entitled to their own personal interpretation, and if that what they believe, then they’re free to believe it, I also know that none of that is what George Lucas intended to convey to the fans. They break the morality that Lucas buried deep in the saga , as he didn’t create it to cater to people who spout New Age rhetoric because they have a beef with established religion. It was a simple story with simple morals that young children could understand. And he wanted it to be accessible to everyone, not a cult classic that would turn most people off when it somehow managed to depict the slaughter of Jedi Younglings and their protectors as a good thing.
I don’t believe that Lucas would have had Ahsoka say that the Jedi were a failure, because they were not a failure. I don’t believe that he would have been fine with Anakin’s message being fight to survive, instead of fight for family and friends, especially as it issued from a man who was defined by his close relationships, and even as Vader, had convinced himself that he was still doing good for the galaxy at large. Ahsoka wouldn’t have won the fight. Lucas would have been confident that she could take a major beat down from someone far stronger than her without compromising fan loyalty. He did it with Luke in ESB. So he could definitely do it again. And, seriously, would it have killed them to have Anakin and Ahsoka hug at least once in that scene? They’re practically brother and sister, and they hadn’t seen each for years. Lucas also would have had Ahsoka ask Anakin about killing the Emperor to save his son. Yes, she heard about it from Luke. But she still would have wanted to hear the account from Anakin’s perspective and probe his feelings and motives for why he did what he did when he did it. Lucas would have had Ahsoka test Sabine’s midichlorian count, because he would know there is a difference between Force user and Force-Sensitive, and that if Sabine’s count was too low, she wouldn’t even be able to telekinetically move a pebble
Sadly, all the show appears to have proven is that Filoni only writes good Star Wars stories when he’s collaborating with Lucas. Without Lucas, we get Ahsoka. A lot of detractors of the show believe this. However, I’m going to be more charitable and say it might not be Filoni’s talents, or lack there of, that’s actually the problem. He may not be able to write a show that is more true to Lucas’ vision of Star Wars, because he might not be allowed to. The fault may lay with people further up the food chain at Disney, because that’s often been the case for the last ten years. And if he’s up against company mindset, it would be almost impossible for a single person to turn the tide. Even heroes need help for some tasks.
Like the DC Animated Universe and how Bruce Timm get all the credit.
@@winterleia9027 Why would he disagree with the idea that the jedi were failures and responsible for Darth Vader? That was literally the whole point and story of the prequels.
@@Typoh_YT No, that wasn’t the point of the whole story. That’s just the way some people interpret it. But rather than stating my opinion, let’s go straight to the horse’s mouth.
George Lucas, Sci-fi online 2005. “ Anakin wants to be a Jedi, but he cannot let go of the people he loves in order to move forward. The Jedi believe that you don’t hold onto things, that you let things pass through you, and that if you can control your greed, you can resolve conflict, not only in yourself, but the world around you because you accept the natural course of things. Anakin’s inability to follow this basic guideline is at the core of his turn to the Dark Side. “
So it wasn’t the Jedi or their teachings that was the problem. It was that Anakin couldn’t even follow what George Lucas said was their most basic teaching. Later he stated. “it was entirely on Anakin. He loveth too much, too possessively. Anakin’s inability to let go of his greed, of his need for power are what made him go from being a good guy to a bad guy.”
What he didn’t say was what Dave Filoni said. “Anakin’s inability to let go caused his downfall … but was his way of loving really that wrong or bad? Maybe the reason is because the Jedi were so dispassionate that they didn’t give him the support he needed.”
So it’s Dave Filoni’s personal opinion that the Jedi were to blame. Lucas never at any time said that they were to blame, and in fact said the opposite. He stated plain as day that they were the good guys and did what they could to keep Anakin from going down a path to the Dark Side. Anakin was a failure as a Jedi, not that the Jedi Order were a failure. And when he finally figured it all out, when he was finally willing to sacrifice everything for a loved one, that is when he returned to the Light. He knew the moment he picked up Palpatine to throw him over the railing, he was also condemning himself to death. Forget about him and his son ruling together and even cultivating a relationship with Luke, or meeting his daughter with the knowledge that she was his daughter. We don’t even know if he knew who his daughter was before he died. In any case, all he was going to get out of it is the life of his son and a much better chance for his children to have a happy, secure future without a monster like Palpatine around. It was a decision prompted by pure love. Episode 6 is called Return of the Jedi. But Luke didn’t go anywhere and the Jedi Order only went underground. It’s referring to Anakin. So trying to say that the Jedi were a failure is monumentally stupid when the whole first 6 episodes is about the triumph of a Jedi over the Dark Side, with a little help from his son, who was also a Jedi.
And there is another reason why saying the Jedi were a failure is not something that Lucas would have had Ahsoka say, which I just alluded to. The Jedi Order did not end with the Old Republic. Like all religions, it is defined by its teachings, not a building on Curoscant. Obi Wan Kenobi was still a Jedi Knight. Yoda was still a Jedi Knight, and Dagobah was as good a place as any for training a Padawan. All they did was lose the battle. But they regrouped and won the war.
In the end, the question of the causes for Anakin’s fall are very complex. That why Lucas at certain times sounds like he’s contradicting himself. There’s more than one answer. And he never said there wasn’t a better way. But asserting that the Jedi are solely to blame and that they failed is to display about as much moral sense as a five-year old. People complain about the black and white morality in Star Wars. But I’m starting to suspect that maybe they and Disney are color-blind.
I feel like Filoni is getting to the point where its a case of 'Die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.'
I feel like Dave's best work, the last episodes of Clone Wars, are so good because the main story he needs to tell is already there in Episode III. So all he needed to really do is what he does really good, give the story more depth and a second look on it
yeah S7 got carried by the emotional juggernaut that is order 66
Thats was bad written. Ahsoka had tons of plot shield and she let Maul free just for killing lots of clones and let her behind lol
Almost like Benioff and Weiss
"I'm not calling him a fraud or anything"
Proceeds to Title the video: DAVE FILONI IS A FRAUD
Can't be mad at the click bait still a good video
Yes, you absolutely can be mad at clickbait. It sucks shit.
@@andrewoid4711 Yes, we can. In normal cases I would look it over except that the video and its content is a 100% contradiction to the video title. He could have titled it "Dave Feloni might be a Fraud" and I would be less annoyed about it. At least that way the title isn't providing a misleading contradiction and the content of the video backs it up. This, despite the info being useful, is just click bate abuse and to be fully frank, I tend to stay clear of channels that fall into a habit of using them.
Mike Zero is a bit more of an extreme case but he is a perfect example of what content like this could lead too. There was a time when I respected the guy and his info vids on Star Wars. But no, he took took to using clickbate on a level equivilent to cancer and then topped it all off with shallow videos that 99% of the time would contradict his titles, only to find out by the end that it was all for show to get you past the first five minutes before you start to realize you waisted your time.
Again, extreme case, but this is why I stay away from content like this and it took me half an hour to decide to watch this video out of concern that was what I would walk into. Glad I did not, surprised even. Won't be less cautious next time. This creator might not have fallen as low as Mike, but a willingness to do dumb stuff like this is just one of a few steps to do so.
@@christopherpoet458 couldn’t have said it better myself! Thank you
@@andrewoid4711no it isn’t. He repeated himself 10 times and ended it with I don’t know, I wasn’t there.
Problem with Disney SW is they are doing stories about SW instead of good stories in the SW galaxy. In the process of their storytelling they are destroying legacy characters and popular EU characters and themes.
Which EU characters has Filloni destroyed? He’s the one who brought Thrawn back to canon. He let us see Luke at his peak… who gives a damn if it was using crappy deepfake shit instead of casting like Sebastian Stan. It was still amazing to finally see Luke gone ape and be a one man army like his dad used to be.
He can only fix so much of the damage Disney has done. They have already ensured for example Mara Jade can’t happen because Luke fails and runs away completely out of character. I don’t see how what he;s doing now is not all for the better. And the whole boken Jedi thing seems to be important in setting up the 25k year earlier movie in the high republic or w/e where there are all sorts of Jedi with all sorts of personalities and characters represented by their different colored sabers and designs and they aren’t ridiculous ascetic mannequins but complex people all full of shades of grey.
@@amnesia5490 Thrawn in rebels and Ashoka is nothing like the Thrawn in the books. He can't just say we will always be one step ahead and loss. Baylan is more like Thrawn.
Light sabers are lethal it's not like getting stabbed its a bloody heat missile that would evaporate the fluids in your body. The lightsaber fights are meaningless because there is no consequences. Almost everyone lives to fight another day even if they are impaled or cut in half.
Force projection isn't lethal in the books, they just did that to kill off the Skywalkers.
We aren't seeing Luke in his prime, he's a backdrop.
Heir to the Empire is what kept SW alive with fans. No one cares about Rey Palpatine over the age of 7.
Everything they are doing is dumbing it down, and making it too repetitive.
You are probably right but if they did create Mara Jade and Luke had some lost son or daughter it might redeem the franchise somewhat. It will also explain the LUUKE we saw. Maybe they should try to make that LUUKE.
Best thing that could happen now is Ashoka, Ezra, and Sabine get stuck at that galaxy with Baylan and they do some real stories.
All these stories are stories about Disney StarWars instead of good stories in the SW galaxy
And Palpatine is dead and didn't have children.
@@amnesia5490ong💀 SW fans just gotta find something random asf to hate on bc they don't like Disney
@@Meliodas_TheKingRandom to hate on? Literally the FIRST few minutes of Ahsoka, my brain melted. Homie received a whole old Jedi transmission code, believed it was a fake and the people using it were dangerous…and instead of, idk, nuking them from space or doing literally ANYTHING other than letting them onboard his ship, he just…let’s them board his ship. He then takes the weakest security detail in Star Wars history and precedes to greet them, just to tell them to their faces that he thinks they’re lying. And he and his entire crew get slaughtered for it. It was the most idiotic thing in character decision-making I’d seen since Alien: Covenant. What’s worse is that it repeats itself all throughout Ahsoka.
There’s always some sort of MacGuffin to get the plot rolling and Sabine idiotically steals it and cracks it at home just because. She then refuses to destroy it after stealing it back despite knowing the risks, let’s her master and friend be “killed”, defects with the enemy that killed her master, is (and I kid you not) HANDED every single thing she could ever want by Thrawn…homie hands her back her supplies, gives her knowledge, gifts her transportation, tells her where to look, and he’s supposed to be some “genius” that’s one step ahead of her by making all these idiotic decisions that don’t benefit him (explain to me how he’s been hunting Ezra for years yet unable to find him, but uses the Witches to locate Ahsoka using their magic? Couldn’t he have located Ezra the same way?) And Sabine somehow just stumbles upon a raccoon-turtle thing that somehow just knows Ezra and somehow she’s just taken directly to him before Ahsoka just somehow reunites with them and every screw up Sabine did is somehow not addressed or mentioned because she suffers no consequences for her actions and has learned absolutely nothing.
None of the characters ever learn anything. They never grow. They never have character arcs. Ahsoka, Mando, Boba Fett…all bland protagonists who have no arcs and don’t grow as characters. Even Luke doesn’t have one. He had ONE fan-serviced moment of killing off some robots in a hallway and everyone is excited asf, but in Book of Boba Fett he contributed nothing. He was the blandest, most emotionless teacher 🤦🏾♂️. It was boring asf whenever he got on screen.
I could go on but this is already too long. And don’t even get me started on Reva or any of the idiotic character decisions in Obi-Wan.
@@Meliodas_TheKing SW fans find things they dont like because they want better. I havent seen anyone hate on andor other than the people foaming at the mouth for cameos.
This seems like a cautionary tale to any aspiring story tellers. Don't create a story in isolation and actively involve people in the creative process so they can bring you back down to reality.
Disagree, what about all those famous book authors who write their own books of which we still make movies and shows about today?
@@notimportant8643 I don't think it's a binary thing. Some people need collaborators to best realize their potential and others are able to work well on their own without outside interference. My favorite show of all time is Mr Robot, a show that you can acredit most of the positives to one person who wrote and directed every single episode. Filoni though I think we can rule as somebody who needs a collaborator and a writers room to filter his good ideas through, Ahsoka is the first project he's ever done as head writer and what you can see is a lot of amazing ideas but without any spine to them.
Yeah, isolation is a rough place for writers. Like George did
@@notimportant8643even folks like Tolkein still wrote letters to friends, and discussed their work with others. This absolutely informed his creative process, and if it didnt hed be a shitty writer. Which he isnt, so....
@@notimportant8643books are different from movies no director has done it alone.
It’s actually so crazy how amazing Andor is amongst all these other Star Wars properties.
lol the show where a guy head buts a stormtrooper and knocks him out? lol
that's your take away from that show?@@tubeguy4066
Andor was out-of-this-world amazing filmmaking, but it flopped as a Star Wars film because Star Wars has attracted to itself fans who want to see cheap fireworks, family soap operas and lots of ewoks.
@@tubeguy4066it's literally the only sw d+ project that made the empire look competent
@@tubeguy4066meanwhile in Kenobi, two stormtroopers are neutralized by getting grabbed then thrown by the helmet. In mandalorian s2, some get cartoonishly crushed by a giant rock ball. What’s your point exactly ? Andor is the only show where the Empire doesn’t feel like a bunch of clown getting ridiculed whenever possible.
“You don’t understand guys! Dave Filoni is gonna save Star Wars!!” Is the equivalent of dc fans saying “No guys, this movie is good! Just wait for the 3 hour directors cut!”
You forgot to mention how much of Clone Wars is directly taken and built on from Genndy Tartakovsky and his writers.
I mean… what would you credit him for?
The fact the show was originally supposed to take place between volumes 1 and 2 and the fact the character designs are literally just 3d versions of the 03 2d designs
@@robertogurrola7465 since character designs constitute 100% of an animated show and Filloni had no writing or directing experience before Lucas hired him… except that’s not true. Lucas himself called it a continuation of the 03 show. Also no Ashoka in the 03 show.
Right
Yeah but there is far more original content that is great so I don’t get the point
What hurts is I can't even say he is the "genius" behind Clone Wars season 7, cause he probably didn't write it. That entire season was laid out before its cancellation, meaning for all we know he simply grabbed up the old drafts, and since no one from that writing team was present, he just passed it off as his own. Now, its a stretch and I know that, but still the fact that's even a possibility disgusts me.
I doubt it was malicious tbf
@@Typoh_YT I doubt it to, and I'd rather think he didn't, but I know there were plenty of unfinished episodes that dozens of them had hounded over to work on, so it just makes me... skeptical is all.
Why does it disgust you? Just accept that he's a fraud and move on.
This is stupid, all of the episodes not written by him were not included. More prominently the Bounty Hunter arc with Boba and Cad Bane-- the writers not returning is more than likely why those arcs weren’t present and why the season was only twelve episodes compared to the usual twenty episode seasons. Not to mention, season 7 wasn’t intended to be a finale.
You forget the entire reason he was hired was for his writing and directing work on Avatar which is pretty much universally praised. He was directly hired by George Lucas while he still worked at Nickelodeon to develop a Star Wars animated show. He directed the original animated clone wars movie and was the supervising director of the entire clone wars series. He was then the executive producer of Rebels and supervising director of the first two seasons of that. He left for season 3 as he was given the job to oversee all current and future Lucasfilm animation but went right back to directing in S4.
Just because you hadn’t heard of him before, but he was around BEFORE the cancellation. He came back after. So you seem to be implying he ripped off himself?
We’ve known since 2010 when in the behind the scenes features for TCW season 2 he confused himself talking in circles about the changes he made to mandalorians. Dude has no idea what he’s doing but he uses the TFA nostalgia strategy to memberberry his way into the hearts of surface level SW fans
If I’m recalling right, the changes to Mandalorians were mostly Lucas’ call, not feloni. I also don’t know why people are so mad about these changes, the clone wars didn’t retcon any Mandalorian canon, considering there never was any canon lore about mandalorians in Star Wars, aside from brief mentions in episode 2. The only “lore” that existed about mandalorians was non canon comics, so Lucas giving us the real mandalorians he envisioned is perfectly reasonable
@@albertanmotorcyclist6419I see a lot of people using old legends continuity as a major knock to filoni but to me and to Lucas himself it's never really been something that mattered that much. Before the prequels came out there was all kinds of lore that was retconned or contradicted by Lucas telling his story without restraint. I think it's fine to love and value those old stories but to me, I'm always gonna consider what i can actually see and watch as canon over a comic book or a novel.
@@Typoh_YTyes but George had respect for these people and didn’t completely de canonize everything I guess the difference is respect. I respect George Lucas I don’t respect Beijing throating Disney.
@@Typoh_YTwhile lots of the old EU was fun it truly was between bad to high quality fan fiction.
The Thrawn trilogy being genuinely the only thing that would almost entirely have seamlessly fit into the canon as a perfect sequel to Episodes 4-6. An extremely competent admiral working to unite the shattered empire. While using many of the very tactics that destroyed the empire against the rising new Republic was a brilliant story arc.
@@sgt.squirtle2528there was more than just Heir to the Empire in the EU, but as you pretty much said it was like pulling a gacha to pull out a marvel out of a ton of dirt.
Tony Gilroy put everything Dave Filoni has ever done to shame with one series. Major Chad energy.
Agreed. It makes EVERYTHING Feloni did look dogshit
Clone Wars Season 6 >>>>> Andor
@@sicksadworld765not an argument
Go to bed
@@sicksadworld765how old are you? Serious question
@@paulgrangergranger8256 y’all „I ask someone who has a different opinion than me on a irrelevant subject for their age to implicate that they’re wrong“ mfs are weird af
We have given him an unfair image in our head. As far as i know hes never claimed any of this. Part of me does kinda worry that it might end negatively for Filoni. We are putting expectation on him and giving him credit for things he didnt do.
And delusional fanboys desperate for a messiah figure ignore his very real baggage.
13:42 "Looks at video title"
Anakin "Liar!"
Finally, another intelligent life form.
Also Anakin: ‘Incorrect’
it's rather impressive how many star wars shows filoni is tied to and how many of them turn to mediocre to bad these days without anyone to tell him no.
He was the head of the lucasfilm animation department so of course he is tied to lots of the animated shows. It was his job lol
@@amnesia5490lmao OK filoni sock account 😂
@@amnesia5490yeah to animate, the only time he writes is when he is supervised and his work is checked by competent people
Filoni is also tied to the very best SW has released since George stopped making movies. Is as if mediocre to bad started happening since Disney taking over and has happened to anything Filoni made or not, Star Wars franchise or otherwise. What would be the common denominator? Hmmmm....
@@TheSilverwolf97 you do need to keep in mind Filoni had quite a bit of other people working with him on Clone Wars.
Now that it's just him, I'd say he's had a lot of his weaknesses as a writer exposed over time.
I wouldn’t call him a fraud, but I would say that Filoni plays things way too safe these days.
Well, he moved on from smaller animated shows to flagships of Disney+, I bet my ass that he is being checked more harshly by the Mouse, which has consistently ruined every franchise they own by playing safe.
Playing devils advocate here, but he really deeply cares about HIS characters as well his filming aspirations, so he’s trying to stay on Kathleen Kennedy’s good side until she leaves.
@@TheSilverwolf97 "Smaller animated shows"
>Avatar The Last Airbender was not small.
rebels pushback i think really broke the trust and freedom he had
Too safe? He has been the most innovative and derivative of the Star Wars universe of all of Disney Star Wars. He's actually moving the story forward.
Ahsoka is a show that has so many ideas that could naturally come forward, but its like the show is holding itself back, subscribed to mediocriticy.
- Ahsoka struggling with the weight of being Darth Vader's apprentice is fantastic if we actually see her struggle with that. Instead it is just told to us, half way through the show as an excuse to trot out Hayden as Anakin. Which yes, was cool to see again, but it is a cameo for the sake of the cameo. No one can even agree what fucking lesson he taught and I doubt Dave even knows.
- Ezra has been lost in another galaxy for YEARS and is totally okay seeing Sabine walking into town despite it making his sacrifice worthless. Ezra should be shocked and afraid to see Sabine because if she is here that means there is a way back and if there is a way back then Thrawn will use it. Ezra should be horrified at what Sabine has done.
- Sabine literally betraying Ahsoka and dooming the galaxy to see a friend again has 0 consequence to her character. She isn't reprimanded for it, she doesn't suffer for it and even Thrawn's eventual victory doesn't feel like a victory more of a "Woof, that was close. Just slipped by"
- Hera brings her son to a potential active combat zone (SERIOUSLY WHY?) without approval from the New Republic who're seemingly being made overly incompetent to make it more believable that the First Order happened. But Hera gets let off the hook because "Leia says its fine". Imagine if the super important New Republic council has an Empire spy in deep cover that gets exposed at that meeting due to Leia snooping. A lot more impactful than "Leia says its okay"
-Thrawn is "smart" but seems to constantly blunder his way through the show. Everything he does the heroes manage to slip by and then he is like "Aha, this was my plan all along". Like apparently stalling them by keeping them busy in combat so they can load their cargo and prepare to leave. But then sticking around long enough for the heroes to trek on "alien-horseback" to their base, infiltrate said base and then get stopped by comically inconsistent zombie troopers... Like they're desperate for us to think of him as a threat, but he seems just incompetent.
The best part of this show is Baylan and Shin and they're criminally underused and with the passing of Ray Stevenson, I seriously doubt they'll end up doing his character justice going forward.
Well if you've watched much Star Wars stuff you'll notice a trend with Filonis shows first season kinda sucks, but I chalk that up to him just setting everything into motion so he can go hard with it later.
Which he does go quite hard. So much bitching about Filoni, but GAWD DAMN they are on some shit, some Disney hate-train shit or something cause TCW past the first 2 seasons was some of the best writing I've ever seen and Rebels past season 1 was absolutely spectacular.
@@PherPhurRebels could have been better if not the *freaking time travel*
Ahsoka is a show written with the ass
Shin always remind me of the useless Supreme Kai from DBZ lol.
The writing for Ahsoka reflects most of what's said here. She stands around, watching everyone else as the plot whirls around them, arms crossed and looking smug. Then she speaks, saying something that should be profound but is actual nonsense. Ahsoka is Filoni on screen, right down to being mentored by greatness, but ultimately failing harder than any other figure in the franchise.
Well said.
That's some hard drugs you are taking.
Ahsoka sucks post TCW mostly because her character arc has been completed (three times if we want to get picky). Ahsoka's charisma and wits were sacrificed for Filonni's obsession with turning her into a Gandalf type of character.
@@Jean-Paul-Lane-Valleyshe should've just died on Malachor man
@@Jean-Paul-Lane-Valley Nah she worked well in Rebels at least and made sense but in her own show...yikes. Same shit happened with Obi Wan.
"I'm not calling Filloni a fraud"
*pauses video, looks at title of video*
You sure?
I've been having this creeping feeling that I don't actually like Filoni's work, but it's constantly pushed back by the fact I loved the Clone Wars. I think this video helps highlight the fact that yeah... these shows are a group effort. Maybe the guy's not reeeally all that great of a writer, but I'm sure he still has a lot to offer these projects. For me, though, I started to lose interest with Rebels, and Ahsoka is giving me very similar feelings.
READ THE EU. You'll see that TCW was a middling, poor man's imitation of better stories, like the Republic comics, or the Dark Lord Trilogy, or the Darth Bane books, or others.
He should stick to cartoons, that's what he's been good at. As always George deserves praise for creating this IP we all love so much. His idea to bring back Maul is absolutely GENIUS!
yes!!
gets chopped in half and thrown down endless pit. Somehow comes back. How is that genius?
@@emptyblank099a In a galaxy where General Grievous can be rebuilt after surviving a shuttle explosion and Vader after having three limbs chopped off and burnt to a crisp, Maul surviving isn't outlandish. It's a far more interesting choice than what you'd choose for the character.
George Lucas literally created both TPM and AOTC, both mid movies. He's not the god you think he is. Wake up
@@reddeaddude2187Anakin got medical help immediately. Maul was alive despite being in half for 10 YEARS. And he has survived falling all the way down
And Vader only survived because he's already been established to still be alive by the OT. Not to mention he was literally the most powerful force user so he should be the likeliest to survive
George Lucas is overrated
George Lucas make huge mistake hiring this hack.
I am turned off by the idea that I have to watch 3 separate series (Mando, BOBF, Ahsoka) to catch up with the mandouniverse. I don't understand why they don't try to make a large Game of Thrones style series that can cover multiple plot points throughout its seasons.
Imagine if you had to watch HBO: The Lannisters, HBO: The Starks and HBO: Daenerys just to catch up with all the plots. It's insanity what Disney is doing and they seem to be stuck in a 1980s television mindset.
Filoni, in all reality, would probably be a better assistant manager at Lucasfilms than any kind of creative visionary.
Just, someone to keep things on-brand.
Finally someone willing to call him out
Watch Sheev talks
Filoni's always been a disrespectful little shit when it comes to other artists.
"I'm not calling the guy a fraud"
Lol nice one.
I lost respect for Dave for what seems like his desire to make the Empire out to be the biggest morons who couldn’t defeat a bunch of Girl Scouts selling cookies. There has never been a moment in a Disney show (outside of Andor, obviously), where I thought the Empire was menacing or competent. Stormtroopers die in the hundreds of thousands to one character, and we’re supposed to think Thrawn is going to be a threat when he’s relying on them still? The Dark Troopers didn’t kill anyone. Moff Gideon didn’t have any impact on anything. The Zombie Stormtroopers are the only time the heroes flee from the enemy? The only way the Empire wins is through Darth Vader or the Death Star, and with those gone…
Star Wars should have ended with Empire Strikes Back. Even if it never end, the worst think about star wars are the immature, spoiled fans. Including the maker of this video. Y'all need to grow up. It's just a movie.
@@johnnygoodman2003A franchise, actually. Not a movie. A franchise with established canon and lore. If anything, you need to grow up if your standards for a movie is "It's no big deal, because it's not real". Because here's what is real: Good writing. Which is what we want.
Finally someone else who's seen through the bs of the supposed Lucas successor as incompetent
If George felt the same way, he'd have put Filoni in charge. He did not.
Note that all the stupid stuff for Mandalorian is mainly from S3 because they didn’t commit to the idea of Din no longer having Grogu, and becoming the actual Mandalore
That really annoyed me too I love Grogu but that ship should've sailed that story arc fulfilled and the fact Mando played such a background role which I know was because of Pascal's unavailability due to the last of us tv show but they should've delayed it cause the bigger plot was a big nothing burger
Thanks Kathleen Kennedy… Grogu’s return was solely her decision if the rumors are to be true.
@@xCrimsonxTidex Rumors surround Kanthleen Kennedy are surely the most unbiased and accurate source of information.
Once they couldn't commit, once they couldn't let Grogu go, that's when I knew this show was done for. It wouldn't evolve.
“You’re a fraud, Filoni-Man!”
Not only a fraud, he’s a traitor!!!!!!!
Why they consistently refuse to get lucas involved I have no idea
He’s got some creative ideas but he definitely needs a filter.
What makes you think he wants to be involved?
@@ammonite0257yeah, but disney star wars is so devoid of creativity and interesting directions for star wars.
Even just having him pitch ideas and giving a few pointers would be a massive benefit at this point
@@ridgenyan-botxv367 I’ll give you that. If I can give the prequels on thing it’s that they’re actually different from the OT. He could’ve easily made a similar movie and nobody would’ve said anything.
@@Theosake the prequels were original in concepts. But the dialogue was atrocious, characters made no sense, and the writing wasted so much of the characters potential.
Actually George lucas was heavily involved in the EU and despite what some idiots say he considered it canon, Lucasfilm made a canon hierarchy. Aayla secura was in the comics and George Lucas put her in Revenge of the Sith because he liked her. He also liked Quinlan Vos in the comics so much that he told the comic writers not to kill him off. Lucas also told Tom Veitch to bring the Emperor back in Dark Empire. He also approved of a lot of decisions in the books like, Mara Jade marrying Luke, killing off Anakin solo, and he also told the authors not to kill off Luke, Leia and Han. He also told writers to make tales of the Jedi about ancient Jedi instead of the origins of Anakin Skywalker.
Bingo. If he didn't want the overall brand to have consistency, why spare Vos in one of the comics? Just do what you want with him in TCW or Underworld. But that... thing Filoni gave us is NOT Quinlan Vos! No way.
George Lucas did consider the EU canon. The EU is second canon next to G-Canon. I don't respect Dave Filoni or Disney. Their production isn't canon, and should not be adhered to.
As much as I loved the Clone Wars and how Ahsoka grew as a person/character in said show, you're right about this.
I understand that I was giving Filoni too much credit
The Mandalorian feels like a fluke.
Filloni was brought in by Favreau to consult on The Mandalorian… it was never his show to begin with.
Yup. Everything else has been shit ever since. Especially the more Filoni has been involved. Even as the Mandalorion was going on I noticed the episodes that he directed were by far the worst in the show. I used to think he was a genius too, but slowly and surely I've realized he's not. He's actually a detriment.
This really shines a light on things. I wonder if everyone who thought Filonni would save Star Wars also thought the Clone Wars was mostly written by him.
Actually George technically created her and Dave made her who she is today!
And yet Filoni defied George Lucas to keep her alive, which makes me doubt that.
13:42 "I'm not calling the guy a fraud"
The Title: Dave Filoni is a FRAUD 😆
Happy for someone to critique modern star wars live action without just saying “woke bad”
Dave does play favorites with Ahsoka but people claim Disney Star Wars is making her the most important character in Disney Star Wars. She was never established or treated as the most important character. For the most part she has been on the sidelines in most storylines and doesn’t really save the day so I never got this criticism. I don’t think it’s a matter of Filoni making her the “answer” & more of a matter of certain fans that want her dead because they didn’t want her character to keep living for whatever personal reasons they have or they never liked her character to begin with and wished her time alive was short. Either way Ahsoka isn’t the most important character in Star Wars under Filoni because ultimately so far what has she done that has impacted The Galaxy? She helped out The Rebellion, New Republic a couple of times. She teamed up with surviving force users. She met Luke. Only for The Rebellion & New Republic to fail, Luke becomes Jake and his Jedi Order dies, most surviving force users by the point of the sequels are missing or dead. So what did Ahsoka contribute to The Galaxy in Disney Canon? I can’t think of many things. She tries to help out but clearly even in her own show she keeps failing to do even that. So all this aside I don’t see the narrative that Ahsoka became the savior of anything, & I’m sorry if I make some EU fans or Anti Filoni fans upset but her simply existing doesn’t harm Star Wars. You think Ahsoka contradicts Yoda’s line to Luke in episode 6 well your wrong because even after The OT Ahsoka doesn’t consider herself a Jedi, and yes according to George Lucas for his plans on The Sequel Trilogy & even your precious EU novels there were a shit ton of surviving former Jedi or force users after Order 66. Ahsoka doesn’t take from Luke’s story either. She’s helping out some members in The New Republic from stopping Thrawn but In Disney Canon Luke chose to spend his days rebuilding The Jedi Order like his masters told him too, he’s focused on bringing back The Jedi Order not fighting threats across the Galaxy of course they later ruin this shit with Jake Skywalker in The Last Jedi but once again Ahsoka took nothing away from Luke’s character in this canon or any canon for that matter. This isn’t even a biased take because to me I preferred it if she died in Clone Wars or Rebels but I have no issues with her alive. If you want to blame Disney Star Wars’s problems on anyone it’s the people behind Disney Star Wars but Ahsoka honesty has nothing to do with this. Her existence is due to the one person a lot of these people claim to respect , George Lucas. He’s the one who told Filoni Anakin had a Padawan, like it or not EU & Anti Filoni Fans Ahsoka is a George Lucas character. He created her and yes Dave did take her in a direction George didn’t agree by keeping her alive but George chose to go with Filoni’s idea. He also chose to let her live when he had complete control of Lucasfilm and was Filoni’s boss so to me her living was also still George approved regardless of how anyone feels about her surviving.
Asshoka shouldn't even exist. The majority hate her because she's an ass character and a Mary Sue.
I would say it probably feels she is the most important because she has been in the most stuff. Clone wars, rebels, Mandalorian, Ashoka Show, Tales of the Jedi, and one or two other things. Every new major show usually has ties to her and she is the only one right now with actual stakes in her story.
Well said! But Heir to the Empire has Luke fighting Thrawn and I feel like it’s just stupid they can’t have Luke fight threats but only rebuild the Jedi! We should see Luke and Ahsoka fighting Thrawn and doing some rebuilding of the Jedi! Imagine seeing a young Ben Solo, Luke and Ahsoka and Force Ghost Anakin together. Plus I’m glad you called out some of the annoying EU fanboys who always whine about Filoni and Ahsoka. I keep telling them so many times that the EU may not have always been canon and that George wasn’t consistent with his words. He would change his mind a lot. Proof? He said there’s no Episode 7 but then we find out about his sequel treatments. But I blame the dude for taking the “hate” he got seriously with the Prequels.
@@Lord_Arcann It hard to see that when despite her appearances what she does doesn’t really impact the major events of Galaxy, or anyone else, that may change with their Hier to the Empire Dave Filoni movie I think is coming out but so far Ahsoka is a sideline character in every sense of the word.
@@TheEgyptianGamerGeek I do believe Luke & Ahsoka should’ve teamed up and dealt with Thrawn throughout her Ahsoka show. Luke & Ahsoka could’ve helped Sabine find Ezra and we could’ve seen Luke recruiting all three of them as well as any other surviving Jedi like Cal to help rebuild The Jedi Order like George Lucas had planned in his sequel trilogy. Honestly Luke should’ve been in Ahsoka from the beginning. As a matter of fact her going to him for help on uncovering the ball map made a lot more sense then Sabine.
Sabine & Ahsoka should’ve been still looking for Ezra from
The beginning of the show we didn’t need to see them separate only to unite again. It would make more sense and strengthen Sabine’s poor decision to sacrifice the Galaxy to find Ezra later. So I do agree with you but I’m explaining what Disney Star Wars decided to go with.
As I always continue to say, expecially to those that like TCW but dislike Rebels, The Clone Wars had a variety of different writers for its episodes. Rebels was almost exclusively written by Filoni.
Edit: Commented before watching, lol
No one person can or should write an entire show. It's called the Writers Room for a reason.
Dave is just a big fan. He does understand it but he just can’t do it. Same way you can understand basketball down to its fundamentals from the sidelines. Getting on the court and playing is a whole different situation.
George was involved with the comics and books to a degree often reading them giving feedback and advice that for the most part was taken. Plus the original Clone Wars as well more faithful to the characters and the film's and fits in a lot better whilst TCW kind of just meandered about betraying the war as a series of skirmishes on the Outer Rim rather than the bloody conflict that it was. There are more references to what was canon not the time aka the old expanded universe and if you go looking you will find a surprising amount of reference from books, comics and games. It honestly makes TCW stand out like a sore thumb and feel like an afterthought. Especially with the amount of retconning it does to the films. Don't even get me started on the damage that show did to the EU because that has already been well-documented.
That is not true. Lucas gave feedback to people writing EU material and gave vague guidelines. However, he never considered the EU canon, he viewed it as an “other” that was a possible version of Star Wars, but was clear anything he did could contradict anything found in the EU.
@@albertanmotorcyclist6419 yes but it didn't stop him from referencing it and using elements from it such as Coruscant which was a name derived from Heir to the Empire which was written by Timothy Zahn or the Border dispute that Anakin and Obi-Wan are coming back from in the beginning of Attack of the Clones which was the entire novel The approaching storm.
@albertanmotorcyclist6419 Lucas considered the EU canon, and Lucasfilm said that the EU was canon, they even made a canon hierarchy with the 6 films on top as G canon, the EU comics, games and novels as C canon and the 70s/80s marvel comics as S canon
@@albertanmotorcyclist6419 I don't think he was deliberately setting out to rewrite the EU for TCW with how much it takes from the EU, and George admits he isn't familiar with most of it, I just think that was Filoni, and George trusting him to know more than he did, but as he's proven in recent years, he knows less about Star Wars than the average ignorant Filoni groupie makes him out to be.
The production and imagination put into this video is inspiring. Forget the subject matter, the way you put this video together is really engaging and stands out. Great job on this.
Always is nice to get comments like this, thank you so much :)
Filoni is such a hack and it’s been painfully obvious from the start. He wants to see himself as Lucas’ apprentice Jedi style but he’s actually a traitorous Sith apprentice that stabbed his master in the back and stole his empire. All his characters lack depth that a child could figure out how to implement. He’s drifted so far from what an actual Star Wars fan is and it’s honestly sickening to watch him peddle someone else’s stories, worlds and characters as if he’s some avant guard genius and not a piss poor hack from the backwater of creative deficit.
Star Wars should have ended with Empire Strikes Back. Even if it never end, the worst think about star wars are the immature, spoiled fans. Including the maker of this video. Y'all need to grow up. It's just a movie.
This show contradicts the EU constantly. Spider Maul, chip, etc
Stop deep throating TCW, it's not that good.
Disney ruined the timeline when they made legends non-canon and changed the timeline is where they ruined it
I think fraud is far too strong a term- Filoni has made some great SW content. But he is a creator with his own quirks and downsides and shouldn't be the sole person in charge of the EU, let alone be considered some kind of saviour.
Filoni calls himself an EU fan, yet he has no respect for other artists, and thinks it's great if what he does is different to the EU, then plays it up during interviews to claim he _doesn't_ want to change it. "Fraud" works because he's lied before.
-His stupid hat and soy voice was all I needed to not trust him, despite the hype.
All he had to do was give Thrawn a badass moment in Ahsoka and half of us wouldn’t be sitting here.
Filoni has always hurt, never helped the EU.
David Fraudloni only did 10 episodes of Avatar The Last Airbender, not a majority of it
Finally, a video about the recent rise of Filoni’s takeover that explains exactly the hollowness I felt about Ashoka. I’ve been getting tired of the jerk off fest of this first season, which was great in a lot of ways, but lacked most of all: good writing. I’ve been relying on TH-cam videos to explain the context of all of the little things referenced in the show that were never explained, but need to be known from a deep knowledge or memory of the clone wars and rebels.
„I‘m not calling this guy a fraud“ proceeds to call him a fraud in the video title
My man you’re doing more to kill any enthusiasm for Star Wars than Dave Filoni ever could’ve
What telling the truth?
Terry gilliam said in in an Interview that even him is totally intimidated by the amount of money thrown at him and it sorly tempts you to play safe with all that responsibility
Disney already did that, the shills aren't excited for star wars, just look how fake their reactions are
We will prop up crap.
@@s.patterson5698 it's stupid that some of the defense that I see for Dave and ahsoka is "well it's better than the sequels" and "Dave was a student of George Lucas and he knows star wars better than anyone else at Lucasfilm"
Yo! Nice vid
You know what happened to maul, he is fking dead.
Everyone complains that rey is a Mary Sue, which is true. But honestly Dave filoni is the king of making Mary Sue characters. Sabine stands out as a truly ridiculous character. Mando literally wears his plot armor. Ezra in rebels fits the bill a lot of the time. Even ahsoka was bashed as a Mary Sue at first, till the backlash forced the clone wars team to tone her down and turn her into a genuinely good character.
Dave Filoni is, and always was, a talentless hack. But history vindicates me once more. I said this ever since Clone Wars first happened, and everybody told me how wrong I was and how awesome Filoni is and how good Clone Wars was. Star Wars is the deadest of all horses and Filoni is a fanfiction writer.
Finally someone here I can agree with. Filoni’s work is praised way to much by to many people. And I wouldn’t hate his work as much as I do if it wasn’t some of the most overrated bull crap shows I’ve seen out of Star Wars.
@@bravestraven4650We are a very rare breed indeed - Star Wars fans with a brain are uncommon.
Just wanna make a quick note about Marrock, that evil green fart cloud is not only a reference to the other instances of night sister magic such as the ritual they performed on Savage, it also is the part of his character that's actually setup. Yknow, for the troopers working under Thrawn and Captain Enoch. Plus when this show inevitably gets a season 2 maybe Marrock comes back who knows. I don't think Filoni is immune to any fault like some fans might claim, but even in live action where he lacks expertise he still put out a pretty substantial final product and may play much less safe in the future given the opportunity. I also think that he shouldn't be allowed to do anything if he doesn't have Sam Witwer in the room bc that guy is literally the Huyang of knowing stuff about the franchise and has on multiple occasions been the reason that certain critical decisions for the writing of the show have been made correctly. Give him Henry Gilroy too. That trifecta in a writer's room full of people who are excited to be working on Star Wars would give us some wonderful content
I think many Star Wars fans need to see this video, it's a team effort, and even Lucas didn't do everything, he brought his vision, which is a great vision don't get me wrong, he's an amazing storyteller, but even Lucas tired of directing, he only directed one movie and realized that he couldn't do everything, that he needed a good team
Empire Strikes Back, the best Star Wars movie, has an amazing director, an amazing writer, an amazing second unit, and amazing actors who actively made fixes to their own dialogue because we know how infamous Lucas is writing humans lol
Filoni also had direct writing credits on many episodes of Rebels and solo-wrote some of the strongest ones.
Rebels is ass
The show ended now... Things didn't change :(
The Mandalorian was great until they began trying to connect it to that Sequel Trilogy rubbish
“I’m not calling the guy a fraud or anything” literal name of the video is Dave Filoni is a FRAUD.
You clearly made this video just for clicks, to have this hot take to get attention.
When in reality all you did was state the obvious that it wasn’t just him that made things he was involved in good.
Well done for that
Thank freaking goodness. I’ve been seeing so many comments/commentaries over the recent Star Wars content being credited as “Dave Filoni’s genius work” when it’s always a team effort. It especially bothered me most when people solely mentioned him when The Bad Batch came out even though it was clear that other people were in charge. It’s good to have videos like these out there to sweep out common misconceptions and to remind fans everywhere how it all truly is. I salute you good sir!
are you high? most content os about filoni being a hack
@@lingricen8077 I mean "most content" as in the literal official Star Wars shows and whatnot and how they're called by fans as solely Dave Filoni's work. Yes there are a lot of videos recently also blaming Dave Filoni and calling him a hack. I should have noted that as well. I just mean to refer to Dave Filoni being exclusively noted in general (good and bad). Apologies for the misstep in clarification. Basically, I'm just saying that this is one of the few instances I've seen where someone thoroughly makes a huge note that not everything is Dave Filoni's doing (good AND bad).
Yall dont have this mentality towards George Lucas though lmao
Overrated
@@willisstillhere8846 THAT’S… actually true lol. I mean yeah sure he had his hands on so much and especially in the prequels but certainly not everything. You got me there good sir!
I just liked it when Filoni said "It's Filonin' time" and then he Filled all of us
Original Clone Wars Cartoon was much better than the 3D animated show. Especially because it shows how Mace Window crushed Grievous
Man your videos are seriously so good! I’ve taken a good amount of inspiration from them in my own videos.
thanks :)
Thank you for putting my thoughts into words. I too have been contemplating how Filoni could create a great show like the clone wars but then drop the ball and deliver a shallow, incoherent and uninspired series like Ahsoka
Dave Filoni is so incredibly overrated it baffles me
Cry about it
@@mac4118 Are you trying to be unpleasant?
@@yonkadingo3683 are u trying to discredit a guy who’s worked hard for the fans of Star Wars with no examples except calling him “overrated” lmao I’m sure ur a sequels fan
@@mac4118 Yeah, well it sucks. Just because you want to do good by the fans doesn’t mean it’s automatically good. Also, it’s a vocal minority that likes the show. All signs point to everyone hates it. So keep coping 🤣
@@yonkadingo3683so is George Lucas. He's overrated too
Dave Filoni was the beginning of the end of Star Wars
EXACTLY.
Until now, I didn't have the faintest goddamn idea that Walter Murch directed an episode of The Clone Wars. So cool.
In a different context and with a lot of set-up those Vader/Anakin scenes/visions could have worked in Ahsoka. Imagine Ahsoka being in a position where she wants to do something objectively good with emotional bearing on her and the audience, but that action requires her to tap into the dark side of the force and as such confronts her with the struggle of Anakin, who also wanted something objetively good, saving Padme and facing the path that has lead him to. You can do a lot with Ahsoka and for some reason all of it has been ignored in favor of...nothing?
He’s literally just an emotionally and mentally stunted 14 year old playing with his older brothers Star Wars figures and his little sisters Barbie he painted orange. The Clone Wars is a decent KIDS show, but it’s not even remotely close to canon. The fact that we gave this developmentally disabled bro dude any amount of storytelling power in this series is just shameful.
Also even the “best” arcs of SWTCW are nonsensical canon breaking dreck
As someone who only consider legends as canon, im laughing out loud to star wars fans that unironicly hrdly try to think of disney star wars version as something good 😂
There's something that looks inherently dishonest about people with a top lip hold like Filoni has.
I hate click bait, it gets me every time.
Everyone blames Dave for the clone wars.. when lucas created it made Ahsoka and made her Anakins Padawan and people blame Dave for it. There hate is clouded by the truth.
George was pretty hands-off for lore decisions if you look at the commentaries for the older Clone Wars Microseries, I'm fairly confident the same held true for TCW and George just trusted Filoni to know the lore more than he actually did.
Filoni has done a terrible job with star wars. 1st season of Mando was fun, everything else since then has been pretty abysmal. Book of Boba Fett was god awful, Obi wAN was dreadful, aSHOka isn't much better, Mando season 2 was bad and season 3 was worse. Filoni isn't doing star wars any favors. He's not making anything worth watching.
Nice, very nice. Finally people are starting to realize what I pointed out years ago. Filoni was never Lucas apprentice. You've got people like John Knoll there, Katie Lucas, Henry Gilroy and all of the people who actually seem to understand what Star Wars is about being completely IGNORED. While Filoni openly changed most of George's decisions for Season 6, 7 and 8 is praised. Things ike the death of Ahsoka, her love interests, her life outside the temple; was all changed as soon as George left. The new show "Rebels" made by the same team of writers of The Clone Wars, conveniently changed the Galaxy into all of the things Filoni wanted. Which makes me think it was his hand on the cancellation of the show, not Kathleen Kennedy.
13:42 “I’m not calling the guy a fraud”
Title: Dave Filoni is a FRAUD
"im not calling the guy a fraud or anything" "Dave Filoni is a FRAUD" hahaha enjoyed the vid tho
Lmao 😂 I heard that too I was like 🤨
This is exactly like The DCAU situation, how Bruce Timm basically gets all the credit with fans ignoring all the other crew members who contributed to most of the shows success like Alan Burnett and Paul Dini (who also ironically worked on TCW). Also when you give Bruce Timm full creative control you end up with projects like Batman The Killing Joke and Batman & Harley Quinn.
Videos like these is what gives me hope that perhaps all is not lost and there are still some fans left who care about writings and character building rather than just nostalgia baiting and cameos.
*writing
@@railfandepotproductions thank you railfandepotproductions. Very cool.
@@unhandydaddy5117 what? Just trying to correct a grammer error
@@railfandepotproductions I didn't say anything. I said thank you for pointing out my error. Nothing more. Happy new year brother man!
@@unhandydaddy5117 mkay, will you edit the comment?
Happy new year BTW
Clickbait title but very fair analysis that I enjoyed.
Filoni has been a part of Star Wars since the 2003 Clone wars microseries
Inaccurate, just plain wrong. He was hired sometime after May, 2005, when Revenge of the Sith ended and George decided we needed to return to expand on the Microseries, except Filoni never did that.
I wish there was more animated projects, i miss the voice actors that played the characters i love. And i think the fight sequences and dialogue have all been all been better done in the animated medium than the last few years projects.
dave should stick to supervision. i genuinely believe that if he simply scouts and gets good writers on board, he could do so much more than what we're currently used to.
Dave Filoni loves star wars so much he repeated how George made the prequels.
Got celebrated individually for his great work of many many people, was given money and the proper position to do whatever he wanted.
Then fell flat from it because he didn't surround himself with as many people who helped make the originals.
Funnily enough, while watching Ahsoka I kept thinking that it felt like a Star Wars product made by people who love the prequels. That being represented in the wooden dialogue, bad acting directions, hyperfocus on dumping lore, the slowest passing possible and overdependance on connections to previous works.
To quote Chato: "He should change his name to Felony because this season was criminally bad"
Now I know why the dialogue in Ass-hoka was so dull and boring.
Filoni has fallen from a great height in my eyes. I was impressed to start with, then after finishing Ahsoka it just came across as a very hollow show, all pizazz with no true story. It was 8 episodes of finding Nemo, sorry Ezra ... then ... that's it ?! As an old time SW fan having seen the origjnal in a cinema in 1977, I feel betrayed by Filoni now ... where everyone is a Jedi force wielder and the classic characters are ignored in the main.
Filoni was never as great as you thought he was, he stood in the shadow of great writers, took their stories, changed it, and dumbed them down.