My friend got flamed for having low healing on Mercy when their team was already winning handily. It's bizarre to me that people will still be toxic when they're not even struggling or losing, but especially frustrating when it involves them just utterly failing to understand what Lucio and Mercy bring to the table when they're choosing not to heal.
Had this happen to me too. Can’t remember if I was playing tank or healer. Either way, my team was winning and the dps on my team starting flaming me and the other dps. Called us trash, and told us to “go back to bronze”. I was completely taken aback because we were winning.
I wonder if this is new people? It's a bit like blaming a Widow for not doing enough damage, even though they're getting the first pick every team fight.
I don't know all I know is I was winning the match for our team holding the point since everyone else was fight I got the least kills and least deaths but most healing but still got roasted over not helping enough soo I don't really know just putting my word out here no issue hopefully
@@BrofUJu as someone playing from launch in 2016, the people hard flaming are not new people. New players do occasionally complain but they also usually put their hands up fairly quickly if they get called out on their bs. Legacy players are the dickheads who act much more high and mighty, all while feeding into the enemy team in a 1v5.
Plat lucio main here and all of what you said is so true, people are super toxic if you pick lucio. Even some Rein players get mad about low healing when I pick it, even though all their plays are supported by my speedboosts. I feel like it would help if people had a better indicator of when they receive (especially non-amped) speed boost because a lot of players don't notice the huge difference it makes. If your reaper hits a 5 man deathblossem with amped speed people will type "dps diff", and no one in the swrver even notices that without lucios speedboost it would be a 1v5 suicide mission.
As a former OW1 high Plat Lucio main, this is some bizarre world shit. I don't remember ever being flamed for picking Lucio and no one ever complained about speedboost. Wtf happened in the last two years?!
@ProfDCoy It's gotten more toxic basically, I remember back in OW1 playing lucio was fun Wether it was QP or Comp but not in OW2, No matter what you play unless it be arcade or mystery hero people will flame you for picking lucio. I'm a diamond lucio and understand how lucio should be played but everyone and I mean everyone will flame you for not healing or for being behind the enemy team killing their supports instead of heal botting now.
Just an hour ago I was playing Comp and got flamed from half my team for "not healing enough" while I saved most of my team with boops or speed boosting them outta ults or death situations, I even had more dmg than my dps and elims but I was the "trashcan" for not heal botting🤦♂️
my brother in 🐸, care to explain why? as a lucio main myself i heard nothing wrong with what he said at the end. it’s part of why i don’t even play OW anymore.
@@thestarryeyedobserver yes and maybe, just maybe, am I only running away from the truth. Please let me atleast dream about the good old times, I was never able to witness, bc I'm just one of many Ow2 players. I'm sorry brother 🐸
It's so unfortunate that sometimes in some metagames Lucio can go from the most fun hero to play to meh. I wish the devs leaned into the reddit Lucio playstyle more and try to keep it viable. It's absolutely the most fun way to play Overwatch imo, I've been a Lucio main for years. Recently though, I've been picking up Ball and WOW that has been so much fun too. Whenever reddit Lucio is falling out of style, I know I can play Ball and have a great time.
i am currently a grandmaster lucio main and i agree with what you said at the end. Lucio just isn't as much fun as he used to be, but i still try and play as a reddit lucio and even though i may lose a lot of games doing it i still have a lot of fun bullying the enemy supports and dps
The combination of: -Tank passive nullifying boop -Worse maps -Nerfed self heal -One less tank to support and one less tank to deny -Genji/Tracer/Reaper etc falling out of favour. -Game slowing down after Brig and Bap were added Is why Lucio has gradually gone from the most fun highest impact character in the game to a fraction of that. He used to be best played as a frontliner who sometimes dives - now he can’t frontline and isn’t even as good at diving either.
Still no idea why they nerfed his self heal, like I feel like they only did that just to make the passive noticeable cuz by the time it triggers my lower passive healing already nearly put me on full health it just weakens me in a fight
I can't upvote this series enough. Genuinely I think its the best OW2 content on youtube. Thank you so much for all of these. Its an inspiring and inviting idea. keep up the good work!
Voting for Sym as the next to learn! Doom is also really tempting, but I feel like there's a _ton_ of nuance with Sym that would be a lot of fun to watch you go through (and tbh it might even be hard to do all that in just one week). Also a comment on the video's end, how Lucio currently is feeling... boring. It's a real bummer to hear that, but also a perfect match for what Eskay said in one of her own recent videos. Her and Frogger are two of the biggest names in Lucio gameplay, the crazy plays and the rollouts and all that, but Eskay herself said that right now, Lucio just... isn't fun to play for her. Hopefully in the future the devs can figure out some way to give Lucio some of his fun-ness back, though it's tough since it's not like he's been reworked or heavily nerfed; it's just that with the way OW2 and its meta works, he's lost his niche in that, I feel.
1:56 How in the ever living fuck is it so difficult for me to get plat if these people don't even understand the value of speed boost. This is fundamental shit! Blows my mind.
Interesting point of view. It's crazy once you really get to know the hero, it changes your perspective. If I feel bored of healing, I go on Lucio and have a bit of fun before changing back, but thats because I'm not godlike with him
Great content! I love your story telling and podcasts. I'm fairly new to Overwatch, got into it within the last year and a half of Overwatch 1 and I genuinely appreciate how in the podcasts you keep a level headed mentality. Not afraid to play devils advocate to keep many fresh perspectives. Amazing content man, love it!
As a plat/diamond tank, i love to see a lucio running around. Dont care if it sucks or not chaos is always good in my opinon.. and im ALWAYS pushing with the speed boost. Might be my fav support to play next to
The Lucio play style from ow1 to ow2 has changed so much. When ow2 first went live my Lucio dropped so much because I was used to running more of a reddit style dps Lucio but that style has just gotten so much harder in ow2. It's still doable but if the enemy team has a few counters to you you just have to be more of a heal and speed bot and run the game with good communication. As soon as I adjusted my play style I jumped right back to masters.
> Nobody knows what speed boost does anymore When I first played Overwatch, I locked Soldier. This was before role queue. I soon noticed that I could run really fast out of spawn, but then I'd slow down at the point. I thought this was a Soldier thing -- that maybe he could move really quickly at the beginning of the game. Then I noticed it happened on Zarya, Widow, Mercy, whoever. I figured maybe this is just how all heroes work. Nope. It was Lucio. Those were the days when Lucio was a must pick, and everybody would speed their team to the point, then go "yellow song". Those were the days
I'd like to see you do this with Kiriko - I hear people say a lot that she's hard to climb on and has low winrate everywhere below GM, but it's so much fun zipping round everywhere and just doing a little bit of whatever wherever it counts.
6:05 this is exactly why those players flamed you for picking him *they don’t know what speedboost does* Lucio doesn’t heal as much as others and his healing isn’t burst so it isn’t readily apparent, and speedboost does nothing if the team doesn’t capitalize, those dudes calling you slurs are the teammates not using speed to flank, they don’t see speedboosts value so they don’t see Lucios But also, like, if your team is going in with your speed and y’all are still getting clapped, might be time to swap, it’s like with Ana, if all of your anti’s are getting cleansed or ignored by the team, and your sleeps are all getting protected, you aren’t getting the most value out of her and might do better using someone else, but like, all the clips you’ve shown had been good or at least decent gameplay, your pick isn’t the problem lol
I cop my fair share of toxicity as a lucio one-trick these days, but I didn't expect to hear you say it's more than Sobra or Hammond would get. I've been telling myself the reason I don't enjoy ana/zen since ow2 is that they're strong in the least engaging ways, but I didn't realise that extended to lucio. Sure I know that no-one works with the character, and he's getting a little power crept (be it passives, heros or maps), but it didn't occur to me that his best matchup would be farming tanks for ult. Oh well, I'll choose what's fun over what's meta anyway.
As a lucio main this video hit me in the feels. The old playstyle is indeed dead, and it seems that the fun of lucio has been sucked dry by the switch to OW2. Big shoutout to frogger for continuing to make fantastic and hilarious lucio content.
Nicely done. I got on Lucio about a year ago and never looked back. I only kinda disagree about it being boring simply because of the disengagement par excellence that is even more necessary in OW2 without the second tank and the fact that I like fighting in the mix. I personally enjoy the mechanics and "slipperiness", regardless of playstyle, so much that everything else feels uninspiring. I like me some Zen and Ana from time to time but Lucio made me love the game again when I almost gave up in the last year of OW1.
New to overwatch and I can say, I love lucio, he was very very very difficult to learn, worse im on console so adjusting movement on the vertical axis is a nightmare! The worst pain I have ever felt in a game is when I Ajex! However the joy of wall riding everywhere, wining a low level duel and the alert you get for MIT during a beat are all worth the trouble! My advice to anyone trying for the first time is to PLEASE go into settings and turn backwards wall riding on! its exponentially makes wall riding easier!
I love how SVB got flamed in plat for playing DPS Lucio and being defiant about it. Then when he talked with a rank 1 Lucio, frogger, he basically confirmed all the flamers by saying yea, actually you should focus on your team and farm ult charge instead.
Yeah, I've felt this, but -- hearing daddy frogger say it was a little too real for me. It is a real shame because playing a good DPS lucio has spent a lot of time mastering a lot of tricky mechanics, learning rollouts and escapes (like 800 hrs between console/pc) -- and figuring out some tough matchups. But the game has been balanced into a state where this playstyle is easy to punish, I struggle a lot with slow-playing teams, who, even with comms, won't use speed boost to overwhelm their opponents or chase down the disengage. Cassidy/zen are tough matchups now; the boop has become one of the weakest displacement abilities -- and is best used for pushing people out of positions or preventing supports from making escapes. But heck -- there are a lot of getting outta jail cards on many heroes. Beat is excellent but it requires relatively perfect timing, and I'll always hold it for a second too long to save a melted tank. I don't think Lucio needs buffs to be successful; I think the game could just use a reigning in of many, --EXTREMELY STRONG-- abilities that save people when they're making mistakes -- grenade, Suzu, life-grip, fade, slide -- etc. I hope the devs pay more attention to how they fit into an aggressive meta, even if S4's patch notes specifically avoid thinking Luico's place in the game. I'll see you in the backline, winning my last good matchup, widowmaker.
I love this series and I hope you’re able to enjoy it despite all the crazy people in your games :) you’re really motivating me to try learning the heroes I‘m still unfamiliar with after all these years
Honestly, none of the supports have healing as their biggest role, if played ideally. Ana - Antinade and sleep Kiriko - suzu, mobility and kunai headshots Moira - decent damage (she has the least utility of all of 'em) Brig - disruptiveness and survivability with her shield Baptiste - Immortality field and verticality to rival kiriko Lucio - Speed Boost and Boop Mercy - Damage Boost and Rez Zenyatta - Minus 20% HP to the enemy tank (because f*ck you) Lifeweaver - Rescue (for your inting tank) and platform (because granny can't get up the stairs in time) All of these define the playstyle of the hero to a way higher degree than their healing (except maybe Moira) and that's without mentioning their ultimates.
I climbed to Masters as Lucio onetrick and the start of S4 has been so hard for me in the mental game. We love “Avoid CoolFrog for wins”, “k y s”, and “never queue again”
I'm actually very thankful for this video. Despite the fact that I don't play OW2 anymore. Lucio was in OW1 always one of my 2 main healers and I love him for his flexibility and the amount he can contribute to the team, even tho they don't notice that. And I constantly struggled with what you experienced too. People not understanding this Hero, demanding me to switch off because I don't heal enough, despite me having actually high healing numbers. And they don't see how valuable he is in crowd control and in controlling engagements with his speed boost. Any time I got a tank to play as a team with me, we dominated. Because speeding Tanks can put a ton of pressure on the enemy team, that they often cant handle. And the help you give to your team with quick kills or controlling single enemies like Reaper. Making sure your tanks don't even take the dmg in the first place is so much better than healing the dmg.
As a lucio onetrick this is the content I desire. I’ve actually personally encountered way less flaming in OW2 for lucio-ing all over the place but man it was getting so bad in OW1 that by the time the first ow2 beta launched I had folks in my games there screaming and raging to swap off. All in all though what really excites me about playing lucio is largely the mental game of knowing where you’re best suited. like knowing when to flip the switch between “heal team build beat” and “that guy’s low imma assassinate him” feels really rewarding. Also his movement, it’s so addictive the more you practice with it you just wanna get better and better. At this point I’ve spent 5x the time in lucio surf custom games than I have playing comp
As a Lucio main, I literally felt everything in this video. The hate especially, I'm low Diamond/high plat and I'm constantly flamed, I'm not too bothered by the flames but this video was another level. I get quite a few throwers but my god. I barely ever join vcs anymore and this video explains why Edit: i love the random noises that Frogger makes 😂
To be fair, if I get a Moira that is purely dpsing, but who doesn’t understand how to dps good with her and just keeps on dying, I’ll also just lock Moira in spawn just so they stop throwing with her. But that was back when I was in silver and gold. I don’t really see players that are super bad in Plat or Diamond now.
As someone who mostly hovers plat/diamond, I have had so many people just ask me to swap off Zen because they want more heals. Even had the same hero steal on Circuit Royale last season. We picked suboptimal healer combo of Zen Lucio but we still made it through the entire map with about 2 minutes on the clock (would've been quicker if the Lucio on my team used his without needing to be told to). Then they decided to take my Zen pick away on the defence and play on the front line with the tank. Inevitably leading them to die much more often.
I would love to see you try Tracer after Lifeweaver. The hero pool you seem confident with all seem to be the on the slower side but you wanting to be a reddit Lucio says to me that you somewhat want to try to add the fast characters to your roster so I feel like Tracer would fill that spot perfectly
I would love to see you play Mercy solo queue and then you will know what true pain is (Suffer as I have) People always bitch about damage boost and Rez being "broken" but if you ever played the character you will realise it's impossible to carry 90% of games with Mercy.
A free hug to anyone with the right answer: what's necessary on pro teams and hated by the community (which can't rotate maps, kite skills neither stop bodyshooting Widow from a static position)?
People never believe me when i talk about how horrible it can be being a lucio player, im glad you're showing it in this video Edit: 4:55 this happened towards the end of overwatch 1. lol
A Doomfist vid would be interesting because a lot of people think he’s a throw pick but pros get a lot of value out of him and Symmetra would be interesting because she’s so unconventional
I lost a comp game when I got the entire enemy team with a shatter, but Lucio was on yellow song, so while I could kill their support and dps with about 2 swings, but because Lucio was simply there I would’ve needed about 5 swings, and by that time they would’ve gotten up. In short, we lost the game because Lucio simply existed. Lol.
You should try mei next. I've been locking her only for a week now to learn her more and the higher I get (masters 3 and higher) the more I get road blocked. The general "wall the tank and kill him" playstyle doesn't seem to work anymore. Been opting for more value out of consistent icicle (right click) dmg and just PUMPING out blizzards since the ult charge cost is so low. I still lose games like this too where I have 20!!! BLIZZARD kills in 17 min lol
As someone in plat on tank and gold dps, the reason I think Lucio has a bad rep, is because of a lot of wannabe reddit lucio players that think they are Frogger but aren't. The mechanical skill and gamesense needed to play lucio optimally is just not something most gold/plat players have and so Lucio often is less desired than simpler supports with more reliable kits. I get your points in this vid, and there are no excuses for toxicity, but you are a GM player smurfing in these lobbies and a lot of these players live there. Your experience is not comparable, just as your skill level isnt. And yeah, muting all voice and text and still ranking up works well when you are essentially smurfing, but for those of us trying to rank up "naturally" having voice comms is really important.
/hidechat is the supports best friend. As someone who was the Lucio player for a team that played in tournaments and been playing (poorly) since launch, it's crazy how people don't understand how speedboost works.
People didn’t know that speed is good because so many new players game and filled up a lot of the lower ranks. It took years in ow1 for people to recognize that speed is good in gold and the new players caused the veterans to move up in rank due to how ranking works… it’s unfortunate but it will be all good soon
thats how you know you're apart of a great and welcoming community: when you have to turn off every single facet of communication with any and all players so you never hear from them again.
I would like to see a Cassidy Video. I always hear that it is super easy to get value with him but whenever I play him, I just die. I have no idea how to position with him effectively
Whenever I play Lucio or Zenyatta and die quickly for making a simple mistake that I can correct myself next time. My teammates would say “Lucio/Zenyatta throwing, gg,” so on and so forth. They even give up and continue to be a keyboard master in the chat. However I constantly try to focus on what I can focus and play the way I wanted to. Lucio and Zenyatta are still my favorite hero’s to play and I will always be playing them. No matter how much I must suffer, cause I would rather suffer, learn, adapt and succeed, instead of giving up and complaining.
Wow, you know players are garbage when they flame you for playing to the character's actual strengths (team mobility) and not their their perceived strengths (team healing).
This is a prime example of why the scoreboard did more bad than good people just pull it up and think low healing=throwing I had a game yesterday on zen where I got hard blamed for losing because I had 10k healing and our ana had 12k even though I had more damage and elims than both my dps combined and as someone who plays those types of characters like zen lucio brig and sometimes mercy stuff like that happens way to often and I’m in masters 3 people are just stupid at all ranks not just the low ones
Exactly this. Unfortunately Lúcio is not that fun anymore. Unironically I have more fun playing Brig these days. I love Lúcio and still play him, specially in arcade or deathmatch just to chill, but in normal games I don't pick him that often anymore. And now with the changes to Brig, I'll probably play her even more.
I started playing OW around season 14. Climbed up to plat with Lucio, dipped straight down to silver from most gold/plat throwing games, even when i'd switch off lucio.
In OW, the only way to not get flamed playing support, is to have higher healing numbers than the other teams. When thats the case, the tank and dps players start flaming each other. I could easily have 15k plus healing a match, but that doesn’t mean we’ll win. Sometimes, a confirmed kill is way more valuable than healing. Healing a player through a duel that they’re going to lose because the other player is just better, instead of helping them kill that player is a good example. Now its a trade, instead of you’re dead and the Tracer recalls and we’re down one. People legit hate dying in this game, but its ok as long as you win the team fight.
I think it would be super cool if you learned Winston because he seems different than other tanks, you cant just get out in the front line, and start getting kills, its a slower process, and tbh I dont see that many Winston players anymore.
For some reason my ranked games are less toxic than the qp games it's honestly stunning. I can have a bad game in ranked and not get flamed but when I was trying lifeweaver I got so much hate.
You see, the problem is that no matter what anybody says, the community where most of the community thinks it exists (plat) absolutely *hates* support as a role, unless you're fulfilling their healbot wet dream. It doesn't matter what you do or who you play, in Plat and into Diamond, everybody thinks that all you should do is what they tell you to do, and what they tell you to do, is to heal, regardless of whether that's what the problem is or not. You can be playing a hero so suboptimally that you are essentially soft throwing your own games, but as long as that heal number looks good, nobody will say boo to you. And these players wonder why they can't rank up, and it's because they made the first fatal mistake - listening to the opinions of a single person in this game because no matter what they think they know, they're wrong. The DPS is wrong. The tank is wrong, Your other supp is wrong. The enemy team is wrong. That streamer is wrong (probably). I'm wrong. Nobody knows a damn thing at any point up until probably GM, and that is a fact.
I forgot if it was this video or another one in the series, but the best thing I learned from this series was definitely that I could turn off chat so I could enjoy the game and ignore all the toxicity!
As someone who has played in bronze, silver and gold this is wild to me. People love Lucio at that rank. I guess people probably play him more as a healer, but I've never run into someone saying oh Lucio is no good, lol
With Lucio's speed boost usually I'll pay attention to my tank to track when they want to engage/disengage and use it then. If you just use speed boost when you want to engage, well your team just won't follow through. Sometimes it is really frustrating to see an ana your team could easily run down, but more often than not it's better you just support your tank when they try to engage instead of trying to engage yourself.
I’ll always sustain that plat is elo hell (meaning: a rank and where your teammates are more likely to keep you down a la crab mentality) just muting and trying my best got me out of it, it’s so much easier to climb once you focus on learning and improving rather than in any particular match/game or in your teammates. A good note for anyone salty about those throwers and flammers; Humans tend to get a lot angrier when we feel something isn’t fair, so if you try your hardest and fail continuously and you think you did everything you could then you are more likely to get angry. Those are the ones flaming, the ones failing so much they are dropping in ranks and can’t stop it, they legit think they are playing well and that you are at fault. They lash out in anger bc they “can’t” do anything else if your mental is ok you won’t flame, the “unlucky, go agane” or the “it’s fine” or “it’s alright” or “it’s ok” (the one from Val, don’t remember which one) is the mentality of those climbing, flaming = falling, it tilts you and others and obfuscates your mistakes difficulting learning
I never understood the fact that apparently I should take honest advice from people who r average at best or hardstuck garbage at worst. Like dude if ur advice worked, u wouldn't be plat or gold
My friend got flamed for having low healing on Mercy when their team was already winning handily. It's bizarre to me that people will still be toxic when they're not even struggling or losing, but especially frustrating when it involves them just utterly failing to understand what Lucio and Mercy bring to the table when they're choosing not to heal.
Had this happen to me too. Can’t remember if I was playing tank or healer. Either way, my team was winning and the dps on my team starting flaming me and the other dps. Called us trash, and told us to “go back to bronze”. I was completely taken aback because we were winning.
I wonder if this is new people? It's a bit like blaming a Widow for not doing enough damage, even though they're getting the first pick every team fight.
I don't know all I know is I was winning the match for our team holding the point since everyone else was fight I got the least kills and least deaths but most healing but still got roasted over not helping enough soo I don't really know just putting my word out here no issue hopefully
I get the same often as Zen. Where I'm often asked to swap off because they need more heals.
@@BrofUJu as someone playing from launch in 2016, the people hard flaming are not new people. New players do occasionally complain but they also usually put their hands up fairly quickly if they get called out on their bs. Legacy players are the dickheads who act much more high and mighty, all while feeding into the enemy team in a 1v5.
Plat lucio main here and all of what you said is so true, people are super toxic if you pick lucio. Even some Rein players get mad about low healing when I pick it, even though all their plays are supported by my speedboosts. I feel like it would help if people had a better indicator of when they receive (especially non-amped) speed boost because a lot of players don't notice the huge difference it makes. If your reaper hits a 5 man deathblossem with amped speed people will type "dps diff", and no one in the swrver even notices that without lucios speedboost it would be a 1v5 suicide mission.
I had a Reinhardt player tell me to "stop speed boosting him" when he literally wiped the entire enemy team because of my speed boost.
As a former OW1 high Plat Lucio main, this is some bizarre world shit. I don't remember ever being flamed for picking Lucio and no one ever complained about speedboost. Wtf happened in the last two years?!
@@ProfDCoy Back then, he was a must pick in gold and plat for Control maps. quite odd how the tables turn.
@ProfDCoy It's gotten more toxic basically, I remember back in OW1 playing lucio was fun Wether it was QP or Comp but not in OW2, No matter what you play unless it be arcade or mystery hero people will flame you for picking lucio. I'm a diamond lucio and understand how lucio should be played but everyone and I mean everyone will flame you for not healing or for being behind the enemy team killing their supports instead of heal botting now.
Just an hour ago I was playing Comp and got flamed from half my team for "not healing enough" while I saved most of my team with boops or speed boosting them outta ults or death situations, I even had more dmg than my dps and elims but I was the "trashcan" for not heal botting🤦♂️
As a Lucio main, I'm proud of you
edit: As a Lucio main, I'm NOT proud of you
my brother in 🐸, care to explain why?
as a lucio main myself i heard nothing wrong with what he said at the end. it’s part of why i don’t even play OW anymore.
@@thestarryeyedobserver yes and maybe, just maybe, am I only running away from the truth. Please let me atleast dream about the good old times, I was never able to witness, bc I'm just one of many Ow2 players. I'm sorry brother 🐸
I love the storytelling you put into these videos, keep it up!
It's so unfortunate that sometimes in some metagames Lucio can go from the most fun hero to play to meh. I wish the devs leaned into the reddit Lucio playstyle more and try to keep it viable. It's absolutely the most fun way to play Overwatch imo, I've been a Lucio main for years.
Recently though, I've been picking up Ball and WOW that has been so much fun too. Whenever reddit Lucio is falling out of style, I know I can play Ball and have a great time.
i am currently a grandmaster lucio main and i agree with what you said at the end. Lucio just isn't as much fun as he used to be, but i still try and play as a reddit lucio and even though i may lose a lot of games doing it i still have a lot of fun bullying the enemy supports and dps
The combination of:
-Tank passive nullifying boop
-Worse maps
-Nerfed self heal
-One less tank to support and one less tank to deny
-Genji/Tracer/Reaper etc falling out of favour.
-Game slowing down after Brig and Bap were added
Is why Lucio has gradually gone from the most fun highest impact character in the game to a fraction of that.
He used to be best played as a frontliner who sometimes dives - now he can’t frontline and isn’t even as good at diving either.
Still no idea why they nerfed his self heal, like I feel like they only did that just to make the passive noticeable cuz by the time it triggers my lower passive healing already nearly put me on full health it just weakens me in a fight
I can't upvote this series enough. Genuinely I think its the best OW2 content on youtube. Thank you so much for all of these. Its an inspiring and inviting idea. keep up the good work!
Voting for Sym as the next to learn! Doom is also really tempting, but I feel like there's a _ton_ of nuance with Sym that would be a lot of fun to watch you go through (and tbh it might even be hard to do all that in just one week).
Also a comment on the video's end, how Lucio currently is feeling... boring. It's a real bummer to hear that, but also a perfect match for what Eskay said in one of her own recent videos. Her and Frogger are two of the biggest names in Lucio gameplay, the crazy plays and the rollouts and all that, but Eskay herself said that right now, Lucio just... isn't fun to play for her. Hopefully in the future the devs can figure out some way to give Lucio some of his fun-ness back, though it's tough since it's not like he's been reworked or heavily nerfed; it's just that with the way OW2 and its meta works, he's lost his niche in that, I feel.
A tracer video(after the lifeweaver) would be probably be good because its hard to get free value from her
A doomfist video would also be interesting
1:56 How in the ever living fuck is it so difficult for me to get plat if these people don't even understand the value of speed boost. This is fundamental shit! Blows my mind.
Interesting point of view. It's crazy once you really get to know the hero, it changes your perspective. If I feel bored of healing, I go on Lucio and have a bit of fun before changing back, but thats because I'm not godlike with him
Great content! I love your story telling and podcasts. I'm fairly new to Overwatch, got into it within the last year and a half of Overwatch 1 and I genuinely appreciate how in the podcasts you keep a level headed mentality. Not afraid to play devils advocate to keep many fresh perspectives. Amazing content man, love it!
As a plat/diamond tank, i love to see a lucio running around. Dont care if it sucks or not chaos is always good in my opinon.. and im ALWAYS pushing with the speed boost. Might be my fav support to play next to
The Lucio play style from ow1 to ow2 has changed so much. When ow2 first went live my Lucio dropped so much because I was used to running more of a reddit style dps Lucio but that style has just gotten so much harder in ow2. It's still doable but if the enemy team has a few counters to you you just have to be more of a heal and speed bot and run the game with good communication. As soon as I adjusted my play style I jumped right back to masters.
> Nobody knows what speed boost does anymore
When I first played Overwatch, I locked Soldier. This was before role queue. I soon noticed that I could run really fast out of spawn, but then I'd slow down at the point. I thought this was a Soldier thing -- that maybe he could move really quickly at the beginning of the game. Then I noticed it happened on Zarya, Widow, Mercy, whoever. I figured maybe this is just how all heroes work.
Nope. It was Lucio. Those were the days when Lucio was a must pick, and everybody would speed their team to the point, then go "yellow song".
Those were the days
I'd like to see you do this with Kiriko - I hear people say a lot that she's hard to climb on and has low winrate everywhere below GM, but it's so much fun zipping round everywhere and just doing a little bit of whatever wherever it counts.
could be a nice colab with ML7 too
6:05 this is exactly why those players flamed you for picking him *they don’t know what speedboost does* Lucio doesn’t heal as much as others and his healing isn’t burst so it isn’t readily apparent, and speedboost does nothing if the team doesn’t capitalize, those dudes calling you slurs are the teammates not using speed to flank, they don’t see speedboosts value so they don’t see Lucios
But also, like, if your team is going in with your speed and y’all are still getting clapped, might be time to swap, it’s like with Ana, if all of your anti’s are getting cleansed or ignored by the team, and your sleeps are all getting protected, you aren’t getting the most value out of her and might do better using someone else, but like, all the clips you’ve shown had been good or at least decent gameplay, your pick isn’t the problem lol
I cop my fair share of toxicity as a lucio one-trick these days, but I didn't expect to hear you say it's more than Sobra or Hammond would get.
I've been telling myself the reason I don't enjoy ana/zen since ow2 is that they're strong in the least engaging ways, but I didn't realise that extended to lucio. Sure I know that no-one works with the character, and he's getting a little power crept (be it passives, heros or maps), but it didn't occur to me that his best matchup would be farming tanks for ult.
Oh well, I'll choose what's fun over what's meta anyway.
Your points at the end are so spot on, and heartbreaking for all of us (former) lucio mains
As a lucio main this video hit me in the feels. The old playstyle is indeed dead, and it seems that the fun of lucio has been sucked dry by the switch to OW2. Big shoutout to frogger for continuing to make fantastic and hilarious lucio content.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned playing Lucio, it’s that not matter what I do!
I’m not fast enough to avoid the IRS!
Nicely done. I got on Lucio about a year ago and never looked back. I only kinda disagree about it being boring simply because of the disengagement par excellence that is even more necessary in OW2 without the second tank and the fact that I like fighting in the mix. I personally enjoy the mechanics and "slipperiness", regardless of playstyle, so much that everything else feels uninspiring. I like me some Zen and Ana from time to time but Lucio made me love the game again when I almost gave up in the last year of OW1.
That guy who picked Lucio to stop you was funny as hell lmao.
Dude did the same thing to me as brig lol
New to overwatch and I can say, I love lucio, he was very very very difficult to learn, worse im on console so adjusting movement on the vertical axis is a nightmare! The worst pain I have ever felt in a game is when I Ajex! However the joy of wall riding everywhere, wining a low level duel and the alert you get for MIT during a beat are all worth the trouble!
My advice to anyone trying for the first time is to PLEASE go into settings and turn backwards wall riding on! its exponentially makes wall riding easier!
I love how SVB got flamed in plat for playing DPS Lucio and being defiant about it. Then when he talked with a rank 1 Lucio, frogger, he basically confirmed all the flamers by saying yea, actually you should focus on your team and farm ult charge instead.
Great content SVB! Keep up the hard work my guy!
Yeah, I've felt this, but -- hearing daddy frogger say it was a little too real for me. It is a real shame because playing a good DPS lucio has spent a lot of time mastering a lot of tricky mechanics, learning rollouts and escapes (like 800 hrs between console/pc) -- and figuring out some tough matchups. But the game has been balanced into a state where this playstyle is easy to punish, I struggle a lot with slow-playing teams, who, even with comms, won't use speed boost to overwhelm their opponents or chase down the disengage.
Cassidy/zen are tough matchups now; the boop has become one of the weakest displacement abilities -- and is best used for pushing people out of positions or preventing supports from making escapes. But heck -- there are a lot of getting outta jail cards on many heroes. Beat is excellent but it requires relatively perfect timing, and I'll always hold it for a second too long to save a melted tank.
I don't think Lucio needs buffs to be successful; I think the game could just use a reigning in of many, --EXTREMELY STRONG-- abilities that save people when they're making mistakes -- grenade, Suzu, life-grip, fade, slide -- etc. I hope the devs pay more attention to how they fit into an aggressive meta, even if S4's patch notes specifically avoid thinking Luico's place in the game. I'll see you in the backline, winning my last good matchup, widowmaker.
Yellow healing song is actually waayyy to funny, I’m only referring to it as such from now on 😂😂
I love this series and I hope you’re able to enjoy it despite all the crazy people in your games :) you’re really motivating me to try learning the heroes I‘m still unfamiliar with after all these years
Mercy and Lucio are the definition of "Support" Healing isn't their biggest role
Honestly, none of the supports have healing as their biggest role, if played ideally.
Ana - Antinade and sleep
Kiriko - suzu, mobility and kunai headshots
Moira - decent damage (she has the least utility of all of 'em)
Brig - disruptiveness and survivability with her shield
Baptiste - Immortality field and verticality to rival kiriko
Lucio - Speed Boost and Boop
Mercy - Damage Boost and Rez
Zenyatta - Minus 20% HP to the enemy tank (because f*ck you)
Lifeweaver - Rescue (for your inting tank) and platform (because granny can't get up the stairs in time)
All of these define the playstyle of the hero to a way higher degree than their healing (except maybe Moira) and that's without mentioning their ultimates.
I climbed to Masters as Lucio onetrick and the start of S4 has been so hard for me in the mental game. We love “Avoid CoolFrog for wins”, “k y s”, and “never queue again”
I'm actually very thankful for this video. Despite the fact that I don't play OW2 anymore. Lucio was in OW1 always one of my 2 main healers and I love him for his flexibility and the amount he can contribute to the team, even tho they don't notice that.
And I constantly struggled with what you experienced too. People not understanding this Hero, demanding me to switch off because I don't heal enough, despite me having actually high healing numbers. And they don't see how valuable he is in crowd control and in controlling engagements with his speed boost. Any time I got a tank to play as a team with me, we dominated. Because speeding Tanks can put a ton of pressure on the enemy team, that they often cant handle.
And the help you give to your team with quick kills or controlling single enemies like Reaper. Making sure your tanks don't even take the dmg in the first place is so much better than healing the dmg.
this is high quality content svb
Note: if you have a lucio on your team, protect your other support more often as lucio is pretty much fine as long as you have a good second support
Top tier content as always. This is probably my favourite series you've ever done!
As a lucio onetrick this is the content I desire.
I’ve actually personally encountered way less flaming in OW2 for lucio-ing all over the place but man it was getting so bad in OW1 that by the time the first ow2 beta launched I had folks in my games there screaming and raging to swap off.
All in all though what really excites me about playing lucio is largely the mental game of knowing where you’re best suited. like knowing when to flip the switch between “heal team build beat” and “that guy’s low imma assassinate him” feels really rewarding. Also his movement, it’s so addictive the more you practice with it you just wanna get better and better. At this point I’ve spent 5x the time in lucio surf custom games than I have playing comp
As a Lucio main, I literally felt everything in this video. The hate especially, I'm low Diamond/high plat and I'm constantly flamed, I'm not too bothered by the flames but this video was another level. I get quite a few throwers but my god. I barely ever join vcs anymore and this video explains why
Edit: i love the random noises that Frogger makes 😂
The stream chat when they guy said yellow song wen crazy
To be fair, if I get a Moira that is purely dpsing, but who doesn’t understand how to dps good with her and just keeps on dying, I’ll also just lock Moira in spawn just so they stop throwing with her.
But that was back when I was in silver and gold. I don’t really see players that are super bad in Plat or Diamond now.
love these, I've liked and watched all these video types, pease keep em coming
As someone who mostly hovers plat/diamond, I have had so many people just ask me to swap off Zen because they want more heals. Even had the same hero steal on Circuit Royale last season. We picked suboptimal healer combo of Zen Lucio but we still made it through the entire map with about 2 minutes on the clock (would've been quicker if the Lucio on my team used his without needing to be told to). Then they decided to take my Zen pick away on the defence and play on the front line with the tank. Inevitably leading them to die much more often.
I would love to see you try Tracer after Lifeweaver. The hero pool you seem confident with all seem to be the on the slower side but you wanting to be a reddit Lucio says to me that you somewhat want to try to add the fast characters to your roster so I feel like Tracer would fill that spot perfectly
I saw the "Yellow Song" clip a while back and didn't realize what it meant until now! Also, really looking forward to the Lifeweaver video.
I would love to see you play Mercy solo queue and then you will know what true pain is (Suffer as I have)
People always bitch about damage boost and Rez being "broken" but if you ever played the character you will realise it's impossible to carry 90% of games with Mercy.
Watch top 500 dps defran, he did an unranked to gm with mercy. Got gm already last season. Not impressed 😂
the flaming is why i stopped playing him and swapped mains. its insane how much stats matter to mid elo players
A free hug to anyone with the right answer: what's necessary on pro teams and hated by the community (which can't rotate maps, kite skills neither stop bodyshooting Widow from a static position)?
People never believe me when i talk about how horrible it can be being a lucio player, im glad you're showing it in this video Edit: 4:55 this happened towards the end of overwatch 1. lol
I love these svb, please keep them coming!!
A Doomfist vid would be interesting because a lot of people think he’s a throw pick but pros get a lot of value out of him and Symmetra would be interesting because she’s so unconventional
I lost a comp game when I got the entire enemy team with a shatter, but Lucio was on yellow song, so while I could kill their support and dps with about 2 swings, but because Lucio was simply there I would’ve needed about 5 swings, and by that time they would’ve gotten up.
In short, we lost the game because Lucio simply existed. Lol.
After live weaver can you play Orisa? This series made me sub to your channel so I would love to see you play Orisa after you’re done with life weaver
You should try mei next. I've been locking her only for a week now to learn her more and the higher I get (masters 3 and higher) the more I get road blocked. The general "wall the tank and kill him" playstyle doesn't seem to work anymore. Been opting for more value out of consistent icicle (right click) dmg and just PUMPING out blizzards since the ult charge cost is so low. I still lose games like this too where I have 20!!! BLIZZARD kills in 17 min lol
loving the videos keep it up. would love to see a doom fist 7 days thing. thx much love.
Yellow song is fucking hilarious
_pls use yellow song_
As someone in plat on tank and gold dps, the reason I think Lucio has a bad rep, is because of a lot of wannabe reddit lucio players that think they are Frogger but aren't. The mechanical skill and gamesense needed to play lucio optimally is just not something most gold/plat players have and so Lucio often is less desired than simpler supports with more reliable kits. I get your points in this vid, and there are no excuses for toxicity, but you are a GM player smurfing in these lobbies and a lot of these players live there. Your experience is not comparable, just as your skill level isnt.
And yeah, muting all voice and text and still ranking up works well when you are essentially smurfing, but for those of us trying to rank up "naturally" having voice comms is really important.
/hidechat is the supports best friend.
As someone who was the Lucio player for a team that played in tournaments and been playing (poorly) since launch, it's crazy how people don't understand how speedboost works.
Good video. Keep em coming SVB
People didn’t know that speed is good because so many new players game and filled up a lot of the lower ranks. It took years in ow1 for people to recognize that speed is good in gold and the new players caused the veterans to move up in rank due to how ranking works… it’s unfortunate but it will be all good soon
your content is incredible ty!
Hey svb! I was in a twitch raid today, I hadn’t subscribed yet, but have seen your videos beforehand. I enjoyed this video, can’t wait to see more!
Great video. Wish there was more Frogger teaching but very entertaining nevertheless. As a Lucio Main myself I really appreciate it.
These videos are incredibly well made!
thats how you know you're apart of a great and welcoming community: when you have to turn off every single facet of communication with any and all players so you never hear from them again.
I would like to see a Cassidy Video. I always hear that it is super easy to get value with him but whenever I play him, I just die. I have no idea how to position with him effectively
Whenever I play Lucio or Zenyatta and die quickly for making a simple mistake that I can correct myself next time.
My teammates would say “Lucio/Zenyatta throwing, gg,” so on and so forth. They even give up and continue to be a keyboard master in the chat.
However I constantly try to focus on what I can focus and play the way I wanted to.
Lucio and Zenyatta are still my favorite hero’s to play and I will always be playing them. No matter how much I must suffer, cause I would rather suffer, learn, adapt and succeed, instead of giving up and complaining.
Da king is back baby he neva miss
Love these! Bastion next!
Wow, you know players are garbage when they flame you for playing to the character's actual strengths (team mobility) and not their their perceived strengths (team healing).
This is a prime example of why the scoreboard did more bad than good people just pull it up and think low healing=throwing I had a game yesterday on zen where I got hard blamed for losing because I had 10k healing and our ana had 12k even though I had more damage and elims than both my dps combined and as someone who plays those types of characters like zen lucio brig and sometimes mercy stuff like that happens way to often and I’m in masters 3 people are just stupid at all ranks not just the low ones
3:00 a support asking another support to be a healer? That's crazy
Exactly this. Unfortunately Lúcio is not that fun anymore. Unironically I have more fun playing Brig these days. I love Lúcio and still play him, specially in arcade or deathmatch just to chill, but in normal games I don't pick him that often anymore. And now with the changes to Brig, I'll probably play her even more.
I started playing OW around season 14. Climbed up to plat with Lucio, dipped straight down to silver from most gold/plat throwing games, even when i'd switch off lucio.
I didnt expect this advice from frogger damm
I look forward to these videos! ❤
In OW, the only way to not get flamed playing support, is to have higher healing numbers than the other teams. When thats the case, the tank and dps players start flaming each other. I could easily have 15k plus healing a match, but that doesn’t mean we’ll win. Sometimes, a confirmed kill is way more valuable than healing. Healing a player through a duel that they’re going to lose because the other player is just better, instead of helping them kill that player is a good example. Now its a trade, instead of you’re dead and the Tracer recalls and we’re down one. People legit hate dying in this game, but its ok as long as you win the team fight.
I think it would be super cool if you learned Winston because he seems different than other tanks, you cant just get out in the front line, and start getting kills, its a slower process, and tbh I dont see that many Winston players anymore.
Bro. I'm watching this after I got GM only playing Lúcio, and this was precisely the experience I had, wth.
Stay strong #LucioMafia
it's a struggle being a lucio main 😭 you just gotta get used to being flamed every single day 💀💀
"One of the world's best Lucio players"
OK IS IT ESKAY OR FROGGER?
Wow pc comp pools are pretty harsh, I’m plat 3 with Lucio on console and haven’t heard anything like this.
For some reason my ranked games are less toxic than the qp games it's honestly stunning. I can have a bad game in ranked and not get flamed but when I was trying lifeweaver I got so much hate.
Cause pc is just sweaty bastards
5:12 “Cotton creator”
You see, the problem is that no matter what anybody says, the community where most of the community thinks it exists (plat) absolutely *hates* support as a role, unless you're fulfilling their healbot wet dream. It doesn't matter what you do or who you play, in Plat and into Diamond, everybody thinks that all you should do is what they tell you to do, and what they tell you to do, is to heal, regardless of whether that's what the problem is or not.
You can be playing a hero so suboptimally that you are essentially soft throwing your own games, but as long as that heal number looks good, nobody will say boo to you. And these players wonder why they can't rank up, and it's because they made the first fatal mistake - listening to the opinions of a single person in this game because no matter what they think they know, they're wrong. The DPS is wrong. The tank is wrong, Your other supp is wrong. The enemy team is wrong. That streamer is wrong (probably). I'm wrong. Nobody knows a damn thing at any point up until probably GM, and that is a fact.
Try Doomfist, i'd love to see it as a Doom main.
As a Lucio main(plat 5) my playstyle with him is helping the team out but going for a pick if i have an opportunity to.
1:22 I am sorry but that background seems oddly familiar... Ah I saw it in my bedroom.
I forgot if it was this video or another one in the series, but the best thing I learned from this series was definitely that I could turn off chat so I could enjoy the game and ignore all the toxicity!
As someone who has played in bronze, silver and gold this is wild to me. People love Lucio at that rank. I guess people probably play him more as a healer, but I've never run into someone saying oh Lucio is no good, lol
With Lucio's speed boost usually I'll pay attention to my tank to track when they want to engage/disengage and use it then. If you just use speed boost when you want to engage, well your team just won't follow through. Sometimes it is really frustrating to see an ana your team could easily run down, but more often than not it's better you just support your tank when they try to engage instead of trying to engage yourself.
I’ll always sustain that plat is elo hell (meaning: a rank and where your teammates are more likely to keep you down a la crab mentality) just muting and trying my best got me out of it, it’s so much easier to climb once you focus on learning and improving rather than in any particular match/game or in your teammates.
A good note for anyone salty about those throwers and flammers;
Humans tend to get a lot angrier when we feel something isn’t fair, so if you try your hardest and fail continuously and you think you did everything you could then you are more likely to get angry. Those are the ones flaming, the ones failing so much they are dropping in ranks and can’t stop it, they legit think they are playing well and that you are at fault. They lash out in anger bc they “can’t” do anything else
if your mental is ok you won’t flame, the “unlucky, go agane” or the “it’s fine” or “it’s alright” or “it’s ok” (the one from Val, don’t remember which one) is the mentality of those climbing, flaming = falling, it tilts you and others and obfuscates your mistakes difficulting learning
You absolutely need to teach us Widowmaker. The widow population is dying, SVB! DYING!!
I can understand the reaction to ball and sombra because they are so hard to play around. Lucio is the least offensive hero in the game
Aw heck yeah I'm super here for Frogger
Yooooo 1st svb is so kekw
That's it. I'm staying in bronze. Screw trying to get to Platinum.
nice vids u making me pick a main with out having ti do the grind nice explanations great channel thx
I bullied an ana to the point they report me. This happened while I was on Lucio. I play console but I am good with his mobement
_"live with speed, die mid beat"_
Your lobbies are fucked up, as a tank main I always love a Lucio pick so I don't have to deal with my slow walking speed.
low elo always focuses on heal numbers
I never understood the fact that apparently I should take honest advice from people who r average at best or hardstuck garbage at worst. Like dude if ur advice worked, u wouldn't be plat or gold