Hey Dawid! Just so you know the MX master does have the option to turn on clicky scrolling using the Logitech software. You can even tune the clickyness to your liking!
Yeah you can control the MagWheel with the smart-shift option in their software. Still think it would be cool to not install any drivers or programs to use a mouse. Like Dawid said the G502, G500 etc. had a physical switch and wouldn't need software just for that feature :-)
02:21 I have the same mouse, and if you touch the button that's right above, it changes the "flow" of the wheel, making it more like a "traditional" mouse wheel.
Lol it's so stupid owning such a mouse and not even knowing that... My Logitech G502 Hero also has a button to change between click and free spin and I'm sure there's a good number of logitech models with the same system.
The button behind the wheel on the MXMaster mice changes the scroll mode between free and the normal clicky. The software also has options for auto free scroll with different force levels for the changeover point.
i dont get how companies havent started monetizing on this idea more cus i feel like if they make a great gaming vertical mouse its gonna redefine the industry for us gamers
t's just far too niche. That thing isn't even geared to go above 125hz. Both those MX mice are locked at 125hz. That imo makes them basically unsuable even day to day, I don't know how Dawid can handle 125hz especially on his higher refresh rate monitors. They are office mice They won't put good sensors in those things unless they are guaranteed a sufficient market, and it doesn't matter how much it saves your wrist, if you aim worse with it they ain't gonna buy it loool
I'm a senior with some bad fingers due to Dupuytren's Contracture. I've used the Anker vertical mouse along with a Razer Orb Weaver pad with my left hand. Without these two, I wouldn't be able to keep gaming. I still have to use God mode much of the time, but a vertical mouse has saved the day for me.
As a vertical mouse user I hace a lot to say about this! First of all, the Lift IS the lighter and smaller version of the MX Vertical, which i have been using for years, better suited for bigger hands. Now with that out of the way, at first you feel inaccurate and slow because you're using a whole different set of muscles in your forearm to move the mouse at a different angle than what you've been doing your whole life, so its only a matter of time and practice to train those muscles up. I've been using mine for gaming always and even though its not the most precise thing in the world, I'm no competitive gamer by any means and it does good enough for my needs. The best part is never having those awful wrist pains ever again! Now one more this is idk about the lift, but I believe i could adjust my DPI using the logitech software, aswell as button shortcuts.
I wonder if it would be possible to frankenstein a gaming Lift by taking the hardware (especially the sensor and logic/controller part) from a gaming mouse and putting it into the Lift's body. And maybe some kind of mod to make the clickiness feel better.
@@aurelienlux You don't need to do that. These mice are good enough, that you just have to get used to the feeling, you are holding a joystick instead a mouse. ;)
@@ImreBertalan86 There's still probably some benefits to having a very high DPI sensor with all the bells and whistle (so also very low latency communication, etc). If I recall correctly LTT did a video a little while ago where they tried to quantify the effect and if I remember the conclusion correctly it did have an effect, at least for players with a certain level of practice or skill in a given game. They also have a video where they showed that not all mice with the same DPI on paper are made equal, and the real life result can be far from the theory and doesn't depend entirely on just the sensor. Plus it would be kind of a cool project for a tinkerer.
I have the m575, and yah, it did take me a good week or so to be at the exact same level, but agreed that once you have a new set of muscle memories to work with, it's smooth sailing.
I started using the MX vertical about a year ago after I noticed signs of carpal tunnel and haven't looked back since. It's not the most precise to aim with but I haven't had much issue getting used to it and use it for both work and gaming. A fun side effect of using it exclusively has been trying to use a traditional mouse again. Makes you feel like you haven't used a computer before.
I'm so glad you touched on this subject. Having returned to gaming after nearly a 20-year hiatus, I find that my wrist and forearm aren't what they once were in my late 20's. I'm definitely looking into some better options. Thanks, Dawid!
I got carpal tunnel in my early 20s so I got a logitech MX Vertical and it helped a lot with my carpal tunnel. I just frequently wish they had a gaming version as I've found the big issue with it is that it's not "smooth" feeling (i.e. polling rate is too low). This is ONLY a problem in shooters and every other game I use the MX Vertical
I use a cheap vertical mouse from amazon that's called Zelotes C-18 iirc, and I find it to work really nicely in games. I also use a vertical keyboard so people are pretty weirded out when they come to my place.
I bought a random $25 vertical gaming mouse from Amazon about six months ago and I liked it so much I got a second for home. My carpal tunnel pain is gone and the mouse looks weird enough that no one tries to touch it.
Not really focusing on the mouse for now but insofar as using AA or AAA batteries go, I actually find that that's my preference for mice nowadays once you get your hands on a decent set of Eneloop or equivalent-performance rechargeable batteries. Mainly, I'm just glad that I'll be able to keep using the same mouse (I'm rocking a Deathadder v2 x Hyperspeed at the moment) indefinitely given the batteries live up to their ~10 year lifespan each, and take care to keep each in good health.
@@Collin_J I'm on the XBox series controller at the moment and have been really fond of it. I mainly use it as a USB controller but for when I wanna lean back in my chair I engage the AA batteries, haha. Eneloops are cool
Absolutely agree. AA batteries are a huge plus for me. I can just drop new ones in so wireless actually stays wireless always and there's no degrading of capacity over the years. I always hated how a playstation gaming session got interrupted by having to charge the controller while on xbox I could just drop new batteries in.
@@Faselbob heck yeah. Sure you might end up with a slightly larger chassis or reduced overall endurance, but I feel like that's a small price to pay considering how you're giving up product longevity elsewise. Even if you're handy with a soldering iron, proprietarily-shaped batteries are a bane, or Apple filling their phones with self destructive mechanisms when they detect ingress.
Are the IKEA rechargables still relabeled eneloops? If yes, they are the obvious choice. And using a AAA battery with an adapter (or a little ball of tinfoil) reduces weight a bit.
For similar reasons, I switched to a negative tilt ergonomic keyboard. I started on the Microsoft 4000 ergonomic keyboard for general office use. After I got used to it and started to use it for gaming, I found a mechanical keyboard that was **almost** as good layout wise. Saved my wrists for sure.
I’d be interested to see a comparison in an aim labs test that requires larger mouse movements - i.e targets moving 360 degrees around you, instead of ones that are all within a small field of view.
I got so used to the Logitech thumb trackball mouse that I was just as good (if not a little better) at FPS games with it. Had a lan party with some friends playing CSGO and forgot my 502 at home, but had my trackball in my bag. I was laughed at and mocked initially but that went away pretty quickly once a few rounds were behind us 😂
I've been running an MX Master for a very long time, have always preferred bigger mice like the Naga Hex. Basically the only thing you really need is some Teflon skates and it becomes magical. The side scroll wheel is amazing for fettling my aircraft prop pitch, mixture control, flaps, etc in different keyboard combinations when I'm playing flight sims. Would highly recommend it for gaming with that one mod, new mouse feet.
I've been using the DeLUX vertical mouse (a budget Lift) for work and gaming for a year and it does takes some time to get used to but can definitely be as good and more comfortable than a regular gaming mouse
I agree! The only thing I don't like is rechargeable batteries in a mouse, because it's amazing to be able to swap a new AA on the fly instead of having to recharge a built-in cell that loses capacity over time. The built-in rechargeable cells aren't hard to replace, but they're not nearly as convenient as swapping in a new AA as needed (you have to take the mouse apart with screws, and hope you don't crack plastic). Use rechargeable AAs if you want to save the environment: just have a few of them ready to swap in as needed. I actually wish every new mouse used AAA cells. That would be the perfect design, in my opinion.
True. I just wanted to say the same thing. The fact that in my old mouse it can last over 6 or 8 months with the AA batteries is nice. But I would rather buy the AA rechargable ones to be able to reuse them. I also have a rechargable mouse with battery built-in and I hate it. And when the battery degrades the signal weakens and the mouse starts to lag.
I generally agree with this. Until it comes to Logitech Master and MX mice. I don’t know what magic they do with their batteries, but I’ve still yet to have one lose any significant capacity. I’ve got four of them that get used varying amounts. One of them I’ve had for 13 years and the battery is still fine (my wife uses that one daily). The one I use daily is at least six years old, still has enough capacity that I’ve never detected any change in how long it lasts. It probably helps that they have an actual power switch and the ones I don’t use daily are switched off.
You can put AAA batteries in a mouse that asks for AA. They are smaller, yes, but that size difference can be bridged and you have a slightly lighter mouse. Been using rechargables for nearly 20 years. Now. They do have a bit less charge, but that is no big deal, since you can use them 1000 times.
4:08 I have never understood this argument. Rechargeable AAs exist. Rechargeable AAs mean you aren't going to have to worry if you forgot to charge your mouse, you can just stick another one in RIGHT THEN. They mean that you don't have to break your mouse open once the battery inside of it would otherwise not be able to keep a charge any more. I have never understood the validity behind demanding that the rechargeable battery not be user removable.
The real (so far) solution to my carpal-death-pain (I am a really bad case) has been to use the logi mx ergo trackball mouse - where you move the cursor with your thumb on a ball. I tried various vertical mice and they didn't really work. I also have to game almost exclusively with a controller (the underside paddles on the xbox elite controller are heavensent as shoulder buttons cause me pain)
@@hnewc1919 The only problem that I've found with trackball mice is that logitech seem to be the only ones that are properly accurate - accurate enough that it doesn't freak out if you just spin the ball and enough that playing rpgs or strategy games (or editing video) is easy. Pro tip for anyone considering one: read the manual because I broke my first one as i kept disassembling the whole thing to clean the bearings, not understanding what the little hole for pushing the ball out was for lol.
This video is clearly terrible. First it's missing the superior trackball mice which are of course the most ergonomic and best for gaming. Second you diss a mouse for having nice convenient replaceable batteries in the shape of double A which are very easy to get rechargeable and replace. Trackballs and a good rechargeable battery setup are the best.
Yeah, having a vertical wrist position does help thats also one of the reasons why i sometimes have an awkward holding of the normal gaming mouse just to make it comfortable for me to hold and play.
what really surprised me a lot was how much dawid lifted his fingers off the mouse's buttons after clicking. mine tend to rest on the button after clicking. man that's some serious movement there :O
I actually prefer the replaceable battery to an internal rechargeable battery. You can just buy rechargeable batteries like I do and you'll never have to worry about irreplaceable battery exploding.
IMO vertical mouse is a must have. It feels more natural compared to the regular mouse. Using the Trust Verto I can swing my wrist almost 180 degrees, while if the wrist is horizontal it can move in very limited angle. It is especially usefull when combining monitors in Eyefinity/3D surround setup for 4000+ horizontal pixels- that's a lot of distance for a mouse cursor to pass..
what does rbg have to do with gaming? is that old people pc tuning? like how they think adding a lot of stickers on their japanese car give them 5 horsepower for each sticker?
No joke, my peak performance in FPS games came when I was rocking an old Logitech mouse with a big red trackball in the front. Part of that was definitely because I was younger, but also I felt like I could react faster when just needing to use my fingers to do so. Sometimes odd mice just work with you.
Using my Vertical Mouse now for 6 Months (Nulea RGB Vertical Mouse), and not regretting it. i hope that bigger manufacturers will someday do gaming versions of these things. Not saying that my mice is the best, but its an ok little thing with a nice design.
Yes!!! Another vertical mouse convert!! 😄 I’ve been using the Zelotes vertical gaming mouse for the better part of 5 years now and I’ve never ever ever again experienced carpal issues. I picked it at the time because the logi lift was twice the price and I didn’t have that kind of cash to spend. There was a learning curve to it but afterwards I’ll never go back to a normal mouse. The funny thing is that if someone sits down at my PC they have no idea how to use it, like a car thief trying to steal a car but doesn’t know how to drive manual transmission 🙃
I have 3 Zelotes vertical mouses and love them all. The one with the 5-way joystick on top is what I use for War Thunder. They are a pretty cool company. They sent me an SDK for the F-36 wireless. I replaced the left click switch with a TTC switch and kinda trashed the teflon skates and they sent me a sheet of them free.
@@Bijoux_DerWunderCatsen I also use the one with the little thumbstick 😀 I remapped it to do different things when I used to play WoW. I wouldd've also gone with the wireless model, but alas. I have 2 small children and there is NO DOUBT in anyone's mind that it would grow some really long legs before the day is through.
I actually found this mouse & thought it would make a great video for you after watching your gaming with a pen video. glad to see you thought the same
I`ve been using the Logitech MX vertical mouse for over 2 years. It definitively takes some time to get used to it but I can game like I was in my 20`s again lol
If this mouse had a couple more buttons, it would be the one I would be using, rechargeable or not. I am using a G502 Hero at the moment but as someone that doesn't play FPS at all, accuracy was never a big concern so I would trade it for comfort any day of the week.
Yeah more, programmable, buttons is what the ergo mice need. And maybe someone should make one that is under 100g. No matter how ergonomic the shape, if you have to lift them, that also causes stress.
I’ve used a vertical mouse for about 2 years now for work. I used it for gaming for a brief period too, but I enjoyed it more for work. But going from my work mouse to my home mouse, it just makes me want my vertical mouse again. I’ll be first in line for a lighter vertical mouse, love em’
Now you have to really try the Ragnok 2 which is like a pistol grip mouse to see how does it compare and how's the comfort of it after long hours of use...
@Dawid, Could you do a similar video for a trackball please? In my opinion the inertia of the ball can be useful for gaming, it's also a very precise pointing device.
I have arthritis in my dominant hand, the right, and switched to an MX Vertical by Logi several months ago. Yes, it helps enormously with the wrist pain and after a short learning curve my gaming is at the same level it was before.
I've had the Logitech MX Vertical for about an year and a half now and my wrist pain is completely gone I'm also a regular gamer and I've had no issues with all types of games - companies should make more of these mice and rechargable ofc
Holding the hand in a palm to the side position is more natural thus will feel much better and result in less fatigue during long sessions. WAY back in the day I would spend many many hours playing games with a joystick controller and had no ill effects. Also, I bet the more you use the Lift the better you will get. It is all about muscle memory, including position.
I’ve had a “vertical” ergonomic mouse for a couple years, at first I found it difficult to game with. Actually, I thought it would be impossible. I tended to go up and back at an angle, not straight. But after using it for awhile, it became like any other mouse. I like it, not for gaming though, although you can use it for gaming.
You know if you really wanted a vertical mouse like experience, the Ragnok Gun Mouse is a good consideration. It's basically a mouse in gun grip fashion. Pretty interesting too 😂
After trying a few different ones, I'm a big fan of the "Anker Ergonomic Optical USB Wired Vertical Mouse 1000/1600 DPI, 5 Buttons CE100". Nice feel and easy on the wrist. I recommend it.
That particular vertical mouse doesn’t have enough buttons for me. I use a Corsair Nightsword and use all the buttons in Destiny 2 But thank for mentioning aim labs I have added it to my steam library
That one is nice, but I found the Evoluent Vertical Mouse 4 Right as a gaming mouse to help improve my gaming session length; it works great at keeping the wrist/arm in proper posture meaning less pain over long sessions. I have learned to use it well for gaming and it DOES have a DPI selector! Give it a try, you will love it!
The most stressing part for me is weight. And no, I'm not one of these "everything over 70g is useless" extremists, but having to lift the mouse does put stress on the fingers and during long sessions that can become (temporarily) painful. But the games I usually play benefit from more buttons on the mouse, and by now I'm used to having at least 3 ones additional to the default 5 (LMB, RMB, wheel, M4, M5)
Been using an ergonomic mouse for years, so much more comfortable for long term use. Mind I don't do much gaming with FPS more strategy games so suits my choices more. It did take a while to get used to. Would be interesting to see how your get one after several hours of use. But great video
Very few people can make a sponsor spot that I will willingly watch and actually highly enjoy. Dawid, you are a great comedian. I loved that commercial 😂👍
I have an MX Master 3, not the 3s, and I noticed with the scroll-wheel that, at least when the mouse is powered and connected, the wheel has 2 modes: Slow scrolling has some soft "notches" in the rotation, but flick it fast, and those notches vanish so it can spin free. I've never really cared for these "free-spin" scroll wheels, but this is sort of the best implementation I've seen... I'm also using linux on my main desktop now, and I'm struggling to find a mouse I like that I can actually control with piper. To the point that I'm thinking of making my own mouse...
the scroll wheel can be switched to clicky mode. install logioptions. You can set it to always clicky, or a mode that releases the clicky clutch when you throw a hard scroll.
Get an Evoluent vertical mouse, they have 3 main buttons plus two easy to access thumb buttons, and the wheels are good. They have various sizes, types etc and the software is easy to configure your preferences. Been using for over a decade. A mousepad with a gel wrist rest is imho best for this type of mouse.
No mention of polling rate, I love my mincute vertical mouse, the extra mouse button on the ring finger is brilliant BUT, it only has a 125hz polling rate, like just about all office mice, gaming mice have at least 450hz. No point in frame rates at 300/sec if you are only polling the mouse at less than half that rate. Your aiming speed will be affected by this.
Hmmm, I've tried a vertical mouse before, and it was extremely lightweight and very slippery. It actually made my accuracy go down by over 50% (Especially on small, real world targets and applications) because whenever I wanted to click it, the mouse would slide from the force I'd exert to click. I should note that the mouse in question also didn't allow me to thumb-block very well, so it might've been an issue for that mouse specifically, but it was enough to make me not try another. Especially considering I didn't have a lot to spend back then. It's actually pretty hard to hold your mouse steady during a click when the thing blocking your mouse from moving isn't a sturdy desk, but your own thumb.
Saying as someone who has been gaming for 37 years now without too big issues on a standard mouse: I do not think ergonomic mice are "ergonomic" in a general sense, cause there is a bit more to it than simply the orientation of your hand. One thing is, if you use a claw grip, you already readjusting your wrist to an extent and then also most "ergonomic" mice get less comfortable to use, cause they are not designed for a claw grip. Also in lots of games one lifts the mouse and resets it, which is very hard and uncomfortable with an ergonomic mouse, especially to then not press a button. And even in the productivity sector I doubt a vertical mouse makes necessarily a huge difference. Because especially when being productive, you switch a lot between mouse and keyboard and the latter being the far bigger problem for your wrist. So it is just wasted money if you only buy a vertical mouse but not a ergonomic keyboard.
As someone who is daily driving an MX Master 3 and used a vertical mouse for 4 years alongside it I can vouche for what David sais in the video (most of it, at leasst) The MX Master is by FAR, the best mouse I've ever used. The free floating scroll wheel is sooo god tier level of feature. I love it and I'll bite off anybodys hand who tries to take it away from me. Jokes aside, the MX is awesome for productivity and casual browsing. The Lift is a different kind of good. I was daily driving one for work and it made a HUGE difference. It was making my arms much more relaxed at the end of the day. I was so impressed, that I've purchassed one for home too. Now... I was not a huge FPS player, but using this mouse was a terrible experience. It was comfortable, but I was useless to my team (even more than I'm used to). HOWEVER! Playing a space simulator (Star Citizen is my daily driver) feels like heaven. It brings the immersion of the game to a whole new level. You feel like you are actually using the interior controlls of a ship. So any simulator using gamer, it is a very good choice also. In the video David bought something stupid. Those "slippery" button thingies. I've purchased both for my MX Master and Lift a Corepad Skatez PRO pad. They are the exact shape where they are supposed to go and they are using PTFE (polytetrafluoroethylene - colloquially, this plastic is often referred to as the trade name Teflon ® from DuPont ™) so the mice slide with almost no friction. Over all, David did a great video (again) and can't wait for a follow-up video on this topic. @David: Give yourself a pat in the back and buy yourself a Corepad Skatez PRO. Or two... or make a video about them, IDK 😅
hi @dawid. I got based on your review new set of mouse skates (LEXIP GAMING - MO42). But when I can only use 3 of them on the back of the mouse (under the original feet back cover). If I use them also on front the mouse is stuttering a lot. Did you need to do any other adjustments? I think the LOD is too high and the mouse become un-usable. With the 3 feet its fine but its dragging still too much. Thanks
I busted my forearm about 12 years ago from freelance graphics & animation overwork and had zero medical insurance. My right hand was forever wrecked. Thus, I was forced to find a new type of mouse (rather than get the necessary surgery to patch things up)! Sideways "vertical" mouses have been lifesavers. Gaming? Dunno. I don't game. Except for BeamNG Drive. Fortunately, my favorite style of vertical mouse is sold for between $10 and $30 under a staggering variety of brand names on Amazon. Anker may be the most famous. But it's essentially the same product. And they all have garbage "scroll wheel clicking". So I remapped the mouse. So there. I have ten spares on the shelf right now.
I never had experience with vertical mouse, at least from what I remember. I am glad you gave it a go, thank you very much for the info. I have seen other models from other makers, but I never (when I used to have money) made the jump. As for the others. There are two things I hate about the Logitech MX3 (not S). The poop connection, which makes it impossible some times to use it. The impossible to change dpi and polling rate. So even though I have one which I used for about a week or two, I just gave up on it and went back to some cheap arse Tecknet wired mouse which at least works all the time. But yes, the extra scroll wheel is something I miss very much, almost as much as the fast scrolling main eh scroll wheel, made for today's BS BS BS never ending vertical scrolling websites. Eh, Dawid, you can click on the lock button on the mouse to make it not have a free scrolling scroll... Also, there are rechargeable AAA batteries. JFYI.
If you say the MX master has a non clicky wheel you didn't use it with an actual computer, Dawid. The fact that it has magnetic scrolling above a certain speed is pretty much it's best feature. Either that, or it's broken. As for carpal tunnel, go the me-way; MX Master for precision work (photo/video editing etc.), trackball (M575 in my case, I hated the MX trackball) for anything else.
When using an old Logi G5 gaming mouse for productivity I had the same pain. Trackball mice (logi master MX and the cheaper version in the office) don’t give me any issues and I switch back to the ‘normal gaming’ mouse for games. I think the variety helps too!
Logitech literally released a rechargeable version of the lift BEFORE THE LIFT CAME OUT. Logitech MX Vertical came out before your mouse and I use the Logitech MX Vertical daily for valorant and editing. My mom has the regular lift and the main difference is price and the vertical is for bigger hands. The vertical also has a macro button on top that I use for PTT. I actually need to make a video about that soon bc I found an amazing trick for push to talk keys.
"the sweat potato makes my gums hurt" I don't know if Canada has some wild new potato varieties, but here in 'Merica, we got swEEt potatoes. I'm not sure, but swEAt potato sounds like some kind of sex term. Like 'peach' or 'polish bike ride' Like: "hey, baby show me your sweat potato"
i use since 4 years a vertical bcz. i was till befor 4 years a hardcore gamer and get permanent rsi, cts the first 1-2 weeks my aim sucks hard because i had too hard pain with the vertical but not so fast as at a normal mouse, normal was 1minute hold and pain for 1hour and at vertical at begin 5minutes till pain at end it was after some weeks 1hour and after 6months 4 hours and after it i played like normal, in this years i tested some of the mice all was from bad too trash too my atm mouse its really good but the downside is costom dpi hz rgb and makros are only for windows ... and iam a linux user/gamer :D the sinowealth speedlink sovos is really rerally good but at linux without drivers a bit bad, bcz the lack of costumizing, at sensor its really good at grip too at feeling in the hand too :D
I guess he is using "carpal" as a gag, because it's usually RSI(repetive strain injury). Carpal can be fixed, but you don't want RSI, because it keeps returning if you keep doing what causes it. I got RSI being a machinist and I had to quit work, not drive much, and use computers a lot less.
that button right under the scroll wheel, is the scroll toggle. it makes it click. I only ever set my logitech mice to infinity scroll when I have a giant webpage or document to get to the bottom of. If yours does not click, then its either broken or disabled though software or something
I currently don and occasionally use a Logitech MX MASTER 2S mouse and it does offer a lot more wrist relief for longer pc sessions for me. I only game generally for a ~4hrs max and notice much more relief on my wrist and forearm with the MX MASTER 2S mouse even when gaming over my Razer Viper and Finalmouse Phantom
An ex-colleague of mine gave me his no-name vertical mouse when he left, I had been curious about it for years and it was suuuuuuch an improvment over the magic mouse in the office! At home I use a G700 that I now need to replace, honestly, I'd consider a gamerified vertical mouse, even though I never tried to game with mine :p Maybe I'll give it a go next week.
Yes Dawid, I'm still running through your older content and commenting as I go - I switched to a trackball due to carpal tunnel issues. Been running the Logitech MX ERGO for several years now. Also, my desktop real estate is not great so the trackball makes sense. Ever tried a Trackball? My kid always treats me like an invalid for using it and if he needs to get on my PC for any reason, he carries a BT mouse with him to avoid the trackball...but I like it
There are two things that irk me about Logitech mice. They come with terrible quality switches and they come with terrible feet. Fortunately there are aftermarket solutions for both problems even for the Lift. You can buy good quality aftermarket switches that don't develop the dreaded double click and you can get proper teflon mouse feet.
Have to comment. I have a special adjustable pad that I can flexation and supination. 20 degrees raised towards monitor, 15 degrees sideways lower towards ulnar. No more carpal. Periodically change the angles.
Pro tip: Get rechargeable AA batteries and every device is rechargeable. Even better, keep the AA’s charging and if you run out of battery, you can instantly swap to a fresh one.
All I want is a solid, light, gaming, vertical mouse. I would pay at LEAST 200 for it bc my aim is so much better with it and the grip is comfy as hell. PLEASE GAMING PERIPHERAL COMPANIES, MAKE THIS PLEASE!!!
You need to buy one of these just because the brand name has deep sleep meanings! Somnambulist SSD 1TB SATA III 6Gb/s 2.5″ 7mm(0.28″) Internal Solid State Drive (Amazon, not an ad) I use this mouse: Amazon Basics 3-Button Wired USB Computer Mouse, Single, Black
After watching this video, I decided to have a look myself across Amazon to see if a "Gaming" mouse exists in this category. They do, but they're mostly cheap stupid-silly gimmick ones with cheap thumbsticks pasted on the top. I found one, ONE, that actually seems to be trying to serve the purpose without any bonus/upsell gimmicks pasted on it, the Trust GXT 144. Claims to have a 10,000DPI 20G sensor, also claims that it's in house and not something from Pixart or similar, so I have no idea if it's actually any good. One thing's for sure, though, I suddenly have something on my radar I never even gave a second thought before and I actually kind of want to buy this mouse just to see what I can do myself with such a form factor. There's a 2.4GHz Anker vertical mouse already in my household currently left unused, I might hijack it just to get a feel for the form factor until I can buy the Trust one. When/If I buy it, I might have to make a video review on it sharing my own findings, or maybe I'll just reply to this comment with a mini-review.
While I have 0 experience with vertical mice (I am interested in them), I do have some experience with trackballs. Namely an Elecom HUGE I bought as a replacement for my failed MX Master 2S. This after trying an M570 in the meantime, thumb-operated trackballs seem inaccurate going by just that one. But the finger operated trackball has been good enough for all my usage, including gaming. It takes a lot of adjusting to, even more than I think a vertical mouse would, but it's similarly an amazing increase in comfort. Though I did put my HUGE on an angled 3D printed stand and the momentum of it's oversized ball is on the heavy side.
Dawid: *talks about scroll wheel button on G502* Also Dawid: *doesn't press a very similar button on the MX Master* Edit: I see you rocking the Sennheiser PC38X! I love my pair. Well-built, good mic, and outright excellent sound quality.
I bought a MX Master 3 (for Mac) expecting it to change my life for the better. It didn't. The one game I play (Command & Conquer: Red Alert) highlights a major flaw in it for even light gaming - click too rapidly, and your clicks will be for nought. I have ragrets. Edit: My main OS is Linux, so no Logitech software.
The lift is such a wonderful mice! I picked it up a while ago for health concerns and it does feel great, comfortable and responsive (even while gaming!)
There is a gaming grade vertical mouse. Infact, there are many. I'm currently using a zelotes vertical gaming mouse that has a pmw3325 optical sensor that has a polling rate of 1000hz, and dpiof 10000. Also, check out vertical keyboards. I bought a dyi kit and soldered my own. It's called a split keyboard designed by foostan called corne keyboard.
![[Live] ศึกมหึมันส์มวยไทยสังเวียนเดือด เวทีมวยชั่วคราวสวนสยาม | จันทร์ 30 กันยายน 2567](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pM1k6f7JXUc/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey Dawid! Just so you know the MX master does have the option to turn on clicky scrolling using the Logitech software. You can even tune the clickyness to your liking!
Yeah you can control the MagWheel with the smart-shift option in their software. Still think it would be cool to not install any drivers or programs to use a mouse. Like Dawid said the G502, G500 etc. had a physical switch and wouldn't need software just for that feature :-)
Woah, software controlled clickyness?
Crazy times we are living in.
You can also set the control to the button behind the mouse. @@volvo09
There is also a button right above the wheel that will engage or disengage the clicky scroller.
Also I'm confused, my Master 3s has the button that turns the clicky wheel on or off.
02:21 I have the same mouse, and if you touch the button that's right above, it changes the "flow" of the wheel, making it more like a "traditional" mouse wheel.
Lol I have this mouse for a year now. Never tried that button. I think it's the first time it's pressed now. It's soo clicky!
Que bueno verte por acá!
Lol it's so stupid owning such a mouse and not even knowing that...
My Logitech G502 Hero also has a button to change between click and free spin and I'm sure there's a good number of logitech models with the same system.
@@guily6669 The original mx would switch modes automatically.
The button behind the wheel on the MXMaster mice changes the scroll mode between free and the normal clicky. The software also has options for auto free scroll with different force levels for the changeover point.
Love that button.
Its a personal must for me especially when scrolling long pages like on ebay or long Microsoft word docs ect..
I have my MX Master 3 set up to be clicky at slow scrolling then change to smooth/fast when I scroll faster. Such a nice feature.
I've been using this mouse for about 9 months now and I totally forgot about that lol.
I know that from my G502. But for weight reasons I've taken out the whole switcheroo parts.
i dont get how companies havent started monetizing on this idea more cus i feel like if they make a great gaming vertical mouse its gonna redefine the industry for us gamers
t's just far too niche. That thing isn't even geared to go above 125hz. Both those MX mice are locked at 125hz. That imo makes them basically unsuable even day to day, I don't know how Dawid can handle 125hz especially on his higher refresh rate monitors. They are office mice
They won't put good sensors in those things unless they are guaranteed a sufficient market, and it doesn't matter how much it saves your wrist, if you aim worse with it they ain't gonna buy it loool
its already been tried somewhat and failed. the trust gtx 144 rexx. honestly if there was a smaller and lighter, like 50g max version id use it.
@@handlmycck there are definitely lighter versions... I've had one. Impossible to click without moving the cursor.
They have tho. It's called the gunmouse
I'm a senior with some bad fingers due to Dupuytren's Contracture. I've used the Anker vertical mouse along with a Razer Orb Weaver pad with my left hand.
Without these two, I wouldn't be able to keep gaming. I still have to use God mode much of the time, but a vertical mouse has saved the day for me.
As a vertical mouse user I hace a lot to say about this! First of all, the Lift IS the lighter and smaller version of the MX Vertical, which i have been using for years, better suited for bigger hands. Now with that out of the way, at first you feel inaccurate and slow because you're using a whole different set of muscles in your forearm to move the mouse at a different angle than what you've been doing your whole life, so its only a matter of time and practice to train those muscles up. I've been using mine for gaming always and even though its not the most precise thing in the world, I'm no competitive gamer by any means and it does good enough for my needs. The best part is never having those awful wrist pains ever again! Now one more this is idk about the lift, but I believe i could adjust my DPI using the logitech software, aswell as button shortcuts.
I wonder if it would be possible to frankenstein a gaming Lift by taking the hardware (especially the sensor and logic/controller part) from a gaming mouse and putting it into the Lift's body. And maybe some kind of mod to make the clickiness feel better.
@@aurelienlux You don't need to do that. These mice are good enough, that you just have to get used to the feeling, you are holding a joystick instead a mouse. ;)
@@ImreBertalan86 There's still probably some benefits to having a very high DPI sensor with all the bells and whistle (so also very low latency communication, etc). If I recall correctly LTT did a video a little while ago where they tried to quantify the effect and if I remember the conclusion correctly it did have an effect, at least for players with a certain level of practice or skill in a given game. They also have a video where they showed that not all mice with the same DPI on paper are made equal, and the real life result can be far from the theory and doesn't depend entirely on just the sensor.
Plus it would be kind of a cool project for a tinkerer.
I have the m575, and yah, it did take me a good week or so to be at the exact same level, but agreed that once you have a new set of muscle memories to work with, it's smooth sailing.
I've been using vertical mice for around 10 years due to RSI and they work fine for gaming use.
The MX Master 3S does have a notched scroll wheel. Press the small button just behind it! Changes between free mode and notched mode.
I started using the MX vertical about a year ago after I noticed signs of carpal tunnel and haven't looked back since. It's not the most precise to aim with but I haven't had much issue getting used to it and use it for both work and gaming.
A fun side effect of using it exclusively has been trying to use a traditional mouse again. Makes you feel like you haven't used a computer before.
I also use the MX Vertical and really love it!
I'm so glad you touched on this subject. Having returned to gaming after nearly a 20-year hiatus, I find that my wrist and forearm aren't what they once were in my late 20's. I'm definitely looking into some better options. Thanks, Dawid!
Ergo/ ambi shaped gaming mouse like for F sakes
I got carpal tunnel in my early 20s so I got a logitech MX Vertical and it helped a lot with my carpal tunnel. I just frequently wish they had a gaming version as I've found the big issue with it is that it's not "smooth" feeling (i.e. polling rate is too low). This is ONLY a problem in shooters and every other game I use the MX Vertical
I use a cheap vertical mouse from amazon that's called Zelotes C-18 iirc, and I find it to work really nicely in games. I also use a vertical keyboard so people are pretty weirded out when they come to my place.
I bought a random $25 vertical gaming mouse from Amazon about six months ago and I liked it so much I got a second for home. My carpal tunnel pain is gone and the mouse looks weird enough that no one tries to touch it.
Vertical mice are very comfortable. I would say there is a learning curve with it compared to a traditional mouse, but overall I enjoyed using it.
Not really focusing on the mouse for now but insofar as using AA or AAA batteries go, I actually find that that's my preference for mice nowadays once you get your hands on a decent set of Eneloop or equivalent-performance rechargeable batteries. Mainly, I'm just glad that I'll be able to keep using the same mouse (I'm rocking a Deathadder v2 x Hyperspeed at the moment) indefinitely given the batteries live up to their ~10 year lifespan each, and take care to keep each in good health.
Replaceable batteries are the way to go! I still use my original Xbox 360 controllers which is awesome
@@Collin_J I'm on the XBox series controller at the moment and have been really fond of it. I mainly use it as a USB controller but for when I wanna lean back in my chair I engage the AA batteries, haha. Eneloops are cool
Absolutely agree. AA batteries are a huge plus for me. I can just drop new ones in so wireless actually stays wireless always and there's no degrading of capacity over the years. I always hated how a playstation gaming session got interrupted by having to charge the controller while on xbox I could just drop new batteries in.
@@Faselbob heck yeah. Sure you might end up with a slightly larger chassis or reduced overall endurance, but I feel like that's a small price to pay considering how you're giving up product longevity elsewise. Even if you're handy with a soldering iron, proprietarily-shaped batteries are a bane, or Apple filling their phones with self destructive mechanisms when they detect ingress.
Are the IKEA rechargables still relabeled eneloops? If yes, they are the obvious choice.
And using a AAA battery with an adapter (or a little ball of tinfoil) reduces weight a bit.
For similar reasons, I switched to a negative tilt ergonomic keyboard. I started on the Microsoft 4000 ergonomic keyboard for general office use. After I got used to it and started to use it for gaming, I found a mechanical keyboard that was **almost** as good layout wise. Saved my wrists for sure.
Now try Mx Ergo ❤
I’d be interested to see a comparison in an aim labs test that requires larger mouse movements - i.e targets moving 360 degrees around you, instead of ones that are all within a small field of view.
I might have to buy that. I am firmly getting into "old gamer" territory
I got so used to the Logitech thumb trackball mouse that I was just as good (if not a little better) at FPS games with it. Had a lan party with some friends playing CSGO and forgot my 502 at home, but had my trackball in my bag. I was laughed at and mocked initially but that went away pretty quickly once a few rounds were behind us 😂
This is crazy I was just about to buy a vertical mouse for both gaming and work but I wasn't sure so I held on and then this video is popped up
I've been running an MX Master for a very long time, have always preferred bigger mice like the Naga Hex.
Basically the only thing you really need is some Teflon skates and it becomes magical. The side scroll wheel is amazing for fettling my aircraft prop pitch, mixture control, flaps, etc in different keyboard combinations when I'm playing flight sims. Would highly recommend it for gaming with that one mod, new mouse feet.
I've been using the DeLUX vertical mouse (a budget Lift) for work and gaming for a year and it does takes some time to get used to but can definitely be as good and more comfortable than a regular gaming mouse
I agree! The only thing I don't like is rechargeable batteries in a mouse, because it's amazing to be able to swap a new AA on the fly instead of having to recharge a built-in cell that loses capacity over time. The built-in rechargeable cells aren't hard to replace, but they're not nearly as convenient as swapping in a new AA as needed (you have to take the mouse apart with screws, and hope you don't crack plastic). Use rechargeable AAs if you want to save the environment: just have a few of them ready to swap in as needed.
I actually wish every new mouse used AAA cells. That would be the perfect design, in my opinion.
True. I just wanted to say the same thing. The fact that in my old mouse it can last over 6 or 8 months with the AA batteries is nice. But I would rather buy the AA rechargable ones to be able to reuse them.
I also have a rechargable mouse with battery built-in and I hate it. And when the battery degrades the signal weakens and the mouse starts to lag.
I generally agree with this. Until it comes to Logitech Master and MX mice. I don’t know what magic they do with their batteries, but I’ve still yet to have one lose any significant capacity.
I’ve got four of them that get used varying amounts. One of them I’ve had for 13 years and the battery is still fine (my wife uses that one daily).
The one I use daily is at least six years old, still has enough capacity that I’ve never detected any change in how long it lasts.
It probably helps that they have an actual power switch and the ones I don’t use daily are switched off.
You can put AAA batteries in a mouse that asks for AA. They are smaller, yes, but that size difference can be bridged and you have a slightly lighter mouse.
Been using rechargables for nearly 20 years. Now. They do have a bit less charge, but that is no big deal, since you can use them 1000 times.
@@HappyBeezerStudios Yes, been doing that too, using the AAA to AA adapter. :)
4:08 I have never understood this argument. Rechargeable AAs exist. Rechargeable AAs mean you aren't going to have to worry if you forgot to charge your mouse, you can just stick another one in RIGHT THEN. They mean that you don't have to break your mouse open once the battery inside of it would otherwise not be able to keep a charge any more.
I have never understood the validity behind demanding that the rechargeable battery not be user removable.
The real (so far) solution to my carpal-death-pain (I am a really bad case) has been to use the logi mx ergo trackball mouse - where you move the cursor with your thumb on a ball.
I tried various vertical mice and they didn't really work.
I also have to game almost exclusively with a controller (the underside paddles on the xbox elite controller are heavensent as shoulder buttons cause me pain)
@@hnewc1919 The only problem that I've found with trackball mice is that logitech seem to be the only ones that are properly accurate - accurate enough that it doesn't freak out if you just spin the ball and enough that playing rpgs or strategy games (or editing video) is easy.
Pro tip for anyone considering one: read the manual because I broke my first one as i kept disassembling the whole thing to clean the bearings, not understanding what the little hole for pushing the ball out was for lol.
This video is clearly terrible. First it's missing the superior trackball mice which are of course the most ergonomic and best for gaming. Second you diss a mouse for having nice convenient replaceable batteries in the shape of double A which are very easy to get rechargeable and replace. Trackballs and a good rechargeable battery setup are the best.
Yeah, having a vertical wrist position does help thats also one of the reasons why i sometimes have an awkward holding of the normal gaming mouse just to make it comfortable for me to hold and play.
lol
I 100% want a vertical gaming mouse. I am old and have suffered bad mouse ergonomics since Oregon Trail and Logo.
what really surprised me a lot was how much dawid lifted his fingers off the mouse's buttons after clicking. mine tend to rest on the button after clicking. man that's some serious movement there :O
That is where his click latency comes from.
I actually prefer the replaceable battery to an internal rechargeable battery. You can just buy rechargeable batteries like I do and you'll never have to worry about irreplaceable battery exploding.
IMO vertical mouse is a must have. It feels more natural compared to the regular mouse. Using the Trust Verto I can swing my wrist almost 180 degrees, while if the wrist is horizontal it can move in very limited angle. It is especially usefull when combining monitors in Eyefinity/3D surround setup for 4000+ horizontal pixels- that's a lot of distance for a mouse cursor to pass..
I have the Trust GXT Rexx. It was on sale for 35€ once and it is pretty good for an entry level gaming mouse. Has everything i need.
what does rbg have to do with gaming? is that old people pc tuning? like how they think adding a lot of stickers on their japanese car give them 5 horsepower for each sticker?
No joke, my peak performance in FPS games came when I was rocking an old Logitech mouse with a big red trackball in the front. Part of that was definitely because I was younger, but also I felt like I could react faster when just needing to use my fingers to do so. Sometimes odd mice just work with you.
Using my Vertical Mouse now for 6 Months (Nulea RGB Vertical Mouse), and not regretting it. i hope that bigger manufacturers will someday do gaming versions of these things. Not saying that my mice is the best, but its an ok little thing with a nice design.
Trust make one and it's ok.
You will never know how i got this many likes
I liked your own comment too
I liked yours then my own also
I disliked your comment dont know why I just did
I liked yours too,and mine too
I liked your comment too, also this one also.
Having tried a vertical mouse for gaming, I can say it sucks, like a lot. My carpal tunnel be damned, never again.
Yes!!! Another vertical mouse convert!! 😄 I’ve been using the Zelotes vertical gaming mouse for the better part of 5 years now and I’ve never ever ever again experienced carpal issues. I picked it at the time because the logi lift was twice the price and I didn’t have that kind of cash to spend. There was a learning curve to it but afterwards I’ll never go back to a normal mouse. The funny thing is that if someone sits down at my PC they have no idea how to use it, like a car thief trying to steal a car but doesn’t know how to drive manual transmission 🙃
I have 3 Zelotes vertical mouses and love them all. The one with the 5-way joystick on top is what I use for War Thunder. They are a pretty cool company. They sent me an SDK for the F-36 wireless. I replaced the left click switch with a TTC switch and kinda trashed the teflon skates and they sent me a sheet of them free.
@@Bijoux_DerWunderCatsen I also use the one with the little thumbstick 😀 I remapped it to do different things when I used to play WoW. I wouldd've also gone with the wireless model, but alas. I have 2 small children and there is NO DOUBT in anyone's mind that it would grow some really long legs before the day is through.
I actually found this mouse & thought it would make a great video for you after watching your gaming with a pen video. glad to see you thought the same
I`ve been using the Logitech MX vertical mouse for over 2 years. It definitively takes some time to get used to it but I can game like I was in my 20`s again lol
I hope dawid becomes a trillionaire and buys the entire tech market
At over 50 years old, I'm looking to avoid the carpal tunnel issues. Thinking of trying the vertical mouse myself
If this mouse had a couple more buttons, it would be the one I would be using, rechargeable or not. I am using a G502 Hero at the moment but as someone that doesn't play FPS at all, accuracy was never a big concern so I would trade it for comfort any day of the week.
Yeah more, programmable, buttons is what the ergo mice need. And maybe someone should make one that is under 100g. No matter how ergonomic the shape, if you have to lift them, that also causes stress.
The vertical mouse is a better than my usual approach which is to use the other hand.
Im a mainly sniper user in PUBG and the vertical mouse is the one i use lol
Finally another video stop starving us make more 😫😫😫
Always entertaining! Not tech related but, what's the watch I see you wearing all the time? I'm surprised it's not some kind of smartwatch.
Cheers
None of these are the vertical mice that I was looking into...
I’ve used a vertical mouse for about 2 years now for work. I used it for gaming for a brief period too, but I enjoyed it more for work. But going from my work mouse to my home mouse, it just makes me want my vertical mouse again. I’ll be first in line for a lighter vertical mouse, love em’
Now you have to really try the Ragnok 2 which is like a pistol grip mouse to see how does it compare and how's the comfort of it after long hours of use...
@Dawid, Could you do a similar video for a trackball please?
In my opinion the inertia of the ball can be useful for gaming, it's also a very precise pointing device.
I have arthritis in my dominant hand, the right, and switched to an MX Vertical by Logi several months ago. Yes, it helps enormously with the wrist pain and after a short learning curve my gaming is at the same level it was before.
I have RA and it was a relief, learning curve was seconds.
I've had the Logitech MX Vertical for about an year and a half now and my wrist pain is completely gone
I'm also a regular gamer and I've had no issues with all types of games - companies should make more of these mice and rechargable ofc
Why do you lift your finger so high in between clicks?! That's your response time right there! Hahaha. Great video.
Holding the hand in a palm to the side position is more natural thus will feel much better and result in less fatigue during long sessions. WAY back in the day I would spend many many hours playing games with a joystick controller and had no ill effects. Also, I bet the more you use the Lift the better you will get. It is all about muscle memory, including position.
I've been using a vertical mouse for years now, it really does help with my wrist.
I’ve had a “vertical” ergonomic mouse for a couple years, at first I found it difficult to game with. Actually, I thought it would be impossible. I tended to go up and back at an angle, not straight. But after using it for awhile, it became like any other mouse. I like it, not for gaming though, although you can use it for gaming.
You know if you really wanted a vertical mouse like experience, the Ragnok Gun Mouse is a good consideration. It's basically a mouse in gun grip fashion. Pretty interesting too 😂
After trying a few different ones, I'm a big fan of the "Anker Ergonomic Optical USB Wired Vertical Mouse 1000/1600 DPI, 5 Buttons CE100". Nice feel and easy on the wrist. I recommend it.
I think Dawid is missing his Manscaped subscription, dem hair and beard are growing out!
I might try this out. I've basically been restricted to controllers due to my wrist issued my whole life so this might actually help me
Zelotes offers several different verical mice for sub $20. I've got RA and the vert mouse lets me play War Thunder for days. I have 3.
I want that scroll wheel just for tue sound
That particular vertical mouse doesn’t have enough buttons for me. I use a Corsair Nightsword and use all the buttons in Destiny 2
But thank for mentioning aim labs I have added it to my steam library
I have a G502 and do the same.
The sensor alone makes it a no go for gaming
That one is nice, but I found the Evoluent Vertical Mouse 4 Right as a gaming mouse to help improve my gaming session length; it works great at keeping the wrist/arm in proper posture meaning less pain over long sessions. I have learned to use it well for gaming and it DOES have a DPI selector! Give it a try, you will love it!
The most stressing part for me is weight. And no, I'm not one of these "everything over 70g is useless" extremists, but having to lift the mouse does put stress on the fingers and during long sessions that can become (temporarily) painful.
But the games I usually play benefit from more buttons on the mouse, and by now I'm used to having at least 3 ones additional to the default 5 (LMB, RMB, wheel, M4, M5)
or you know, you could use a controller
Been using an ergonomic mouse for years, so much more comfortable for long term use. Mind I don't do much gaming with FPS more strategy games so suits my choices more. It did take a while to get used to. Would be interesting to see how your get one after several hours of use. But great video
Very few people can make a sponsor spot that I will willingly watch and actually highly enjoy.
Dawid, you are a great comedian. I loved that commercial 😂👍
I have an MX Master 3, not the 3s, and I noticed with the scroll-wheel that, at least when the mouse is powered and connected, the wheel has 2 modes: Slow scrolling has some soft "notches" in the rotation, but flick it fast, and those notches vanish so it can spin free.
I've never really cared for these "free-spin" scroll wheels, but this is sort of the best implementation I've seen...
I'm also using linux on my main desktop now, and I'm struggling to find a mouse I like that I can actually control with piper. To the point that I'm thinking of making my own mouse...
You should try some lightweight options like the Deathadder v3 wireless or "DAv3" for short.
He stated the angle on the MX Master was too shallow to have any noticeable improvement. The DA is even flatter.
I actually like using the battery since I can use separate rechargeable batteries. I also use this vertical mouse and it is very comfortable.
problem is non rechargables are 1.5V but rechargables are 1.2V and some devices are not going to like htat but if it works fine then certainly.
the scroll wheel can be switched to clicky mode. install logioptions. You can set it to always clicky, or a mode that releases the clicky clutch when you throw a hard scroll.
Get an Evoluent vertical mouse, they have 3 main buttons plus two easy to access thumb buttons, and the wheels are good. They have various sizes, types etc and the software is easy to configure your preferences. Been using for over a decade. A mousepad with a gel wrist rest is imho best for this type of mouse.
I wish they would make one with more buttons. And less weight, 136g is quite a lot to lift.
No mention of polling rate, I love my mincute vertical mouse, the extra mouse button on the ring finger is brilliant BUT, it only has a 125hz polling rate, like just about all office mice, gaming mice have at least 450hz. No point in frame rates at 300/sec if you are only polling the mouse at less than half that rate. Your aiming speed will be affected by this.
Hmmm, I've tried a vertical mouse before, and it was extremely lightweight and very slippery.
It actually made my accuracy go down by over 50% (Especially on small, real world targets and applications) because whenever I wanted to click it, the mouse would slide from the force I'd exert to click.
I should note that the mouse in question also didn't allow me to thumb-block very well, so it might've been an issue for that mouse specifically, but it was enough to make me not try another. Especially considering I didn't have a lot to spend back then.
It's actually pretty hard to hold your mouse steady during a click when the thing blocking your mouse from moving isn't a sturdy desk, but your own thumb.
Saying as someone who has been gaming for 37 years now without too big issues on a standard mouse: I do not think ergonomic mice are "ergonomic" in a general sense, cause there is a bit more to it than simply the orientation of your hand.
One thing is, if you use a claw grip, you already readjusting your wrist to an extent and then also most "ergonomic" mice get less comfortable to use, cause they are not designed for a claw grip. Also in lots of games one lifts the mouse and resets it, which is very hard and uncomfortable with an ergonomic mouse, especially to then not press a button.
And even in the productivity sector I doubt a vertical mouse makes necessarily a huge difference. Because especially when being productive, you switch a lot between mouse and keyboard and the latter being the far bigger problem for your wrist. So it is just wasted money if you only buy a vertical mouse but not a ergonomic keyboard.
Your hair and beard looks great!
As someone who is daily driving an MX Master 3 and used a vertical mouse for 4 years alongside it I can vouche for what David sais in the video (most of it, at leasst)
The MX Master is by FAR, the best mouse I've ever used. The free floating scroll wheel is sooo god tier level of feature. I love it and I'll bite off anybodys hand who tries to take it away from me. Jokes aside, the MX is awesome for productivity and casual browsing.
The Lift is a different kind of good. I was daily driving one for work and it made a HUGE difference. It was making my arms much more relaxed at the end of the day. I was so impressed, that I've purchassed one for home too. Now... I was not a huge FPS player, but using this mouse was a terrible experience. It was comfortable, but I was useless to my team (even more than I'm used to). HOWEVER! Playing a space simulator (Star Citizen is my daily driver) feels like heaven. It brings the immersion of the game to a whole new level. You feel like you are actually using the interior controlls of a ship. So any simulator using gamer, it is a very good choice also.
In the video David bought something stupid. Those "slippery" button thingies. I've purchased both for my MX Master and Lift a Corepad Skatez PRO pad. They are the exact shape where they are supposed to go and they are using PTFE (polytetrafluoroethylene - colloquially, this plastic is often referred to as the trade name Teflon ® from DuPont ™) so the mice slide with almost no friction.
Over all, David did a great video (again) and can't wait for a follow-up video on this topic.
@David: Give yourself a pat in the back and buy yourself a Corepad Skatez PRO. Or two... or make a video about them, IDK 😅
hi @dawid. I got based on your review new set of mouse skates (LEXIP GAMING - MO42). But when I can only use 3 of them on the back of the mouse (under the original feet back cover). If I use them also on front the mouse is stuttering a lot. Did you need to do any other adjustments? I think the LOD is too high and the mouse become un-usable. With the 3 feet its fine but its dragging still too much. Thanks
I busted my forearm about 12 years ago from freelance graphics & animation overwork and had zero medical insurance. My right hand was forever wrecked. Thus, I was forced to find a new type of mouse (rather than get the necessary surgery to patch things up)! Sideways "vertical" mouses have been lifesavers. Gaming? Dunno. I don't game. Except for BeamNG Drive. Fortunately, my favorite style of vertical mouse is sold for between $10 and $30 under a staggering variety of brand names on Amazon. Anker may be the most famous. But it's essentially the same product. And they all have garbage "scroll wheel clicking". So I remapped the mouse. So there. I have ten spares on the shelf right now.
I never had experience with vertical mouse, at least from what I remember. I am glad you gave it a go, thank you very much for the info.
I have seen other models from other makers, but I never (when I used to have money) made the jump.
As for the others.
There are two things I hate about the Logitech MX3 (not S).
The poop connection, which makes it impossible some times to use it.
The impossible to change dpi and polling rate.
So even though I have one which I used for about a week or two, I just gave up on it and went back to some cheap arse Tecknet wired mouse which at least works all the time.
But yes, the extra scroll wheel is something I miss very much, almost as much as the fast scrolling main eh scroll wheel, made for today's BS BS BS never ending vertical scrolling websites.
Eh, Dawid, you can click on the lock button on the mouse to make it not have a free scrolling scroll...
Also, there are rechargeable AAA batteries. JFYI.
If you say the MX master has a non clicky wheel you didn't use it with an actual computer, Dawid. The fact that it has magnetic scrolling above a certain speed is pretty much it's best feature.
Either that, or it's broken.
As for carpal tunnel, go the me-way; MX Master for precision work (photo/video editing etc.), trackball (M575 in my case, I hated the MX trackball) for anything else.
When using an old Logi G5 gaming mouse for productivity I had the same pain. Trackball mice (logi master MX and the cheaper version in the office) don’t give me any issues and I switch back to the ‘normal gaming’ mouse for games. I think the variety helps too!
Logitech literally released a rechargeable version of the lift BEFORE THE LIFT CAME OUT. Logitech MX Vertical came out before your mouse and I use the Logitech MX Vertical daily for valorant and editing. My mom has the regular lift and the main difference is price and the vertical is for bigger hands. The vertical also has a macro button on top that I use for PTT. I actually need to make a video about that soon bc I found an amazing trick for push to talk keys.
"the sweat potato makes my gums hurt"
I don't know if Canada has some wild new potato varieties, but here in 'Merica, we got swEEt potatoes.
I'm not sure, but swEAt potato sounds like some kind of sex term. Like 'peach' or 'polish bike ride'
Like: "hey, baby show me your sweat potato"
i use since 4 years a vertical bcz. i was till befor 4 years a hardcore gamer and get permanent rsi, cts the first 1-2 weeks my aim sucks hard because i had too hard pain with the vertical but not so fast as at a normal mouse, normal was 1minute hold and pain for 1hour and at vertical at begin 5minutes till pain at end it was after some weeks 1hour and after 6months 4 hours and after it i played like normal, in this years i tested some of the mice all was from bad too trash too my atm mouse its really good but the downside is costom dpi hz rgb and makros are only for windows ... and iam a linux user/gamer :D
the sinowealth speedlink sovos is really rerally good but at linux without drivers a bit bad, bcz the lack of costumizing, at sensor its really good at grip too at feeling in the hand too :D
I guess he is using "carpal" as a gag, because it's usually RSI(repetive strain injury).
Carpal can be fixed, but you don't want RSI, because it keeps returning if you keep doing what causes it. I got RSI being a machinist and I had to quit work, not drive much, and use computers a lot less.
that button right under the scroll wheel, is the scroll toggle. it makes it click. I only ever set my logitech mice to infinity scroll when I have a giant webpage or document to get to the bottom of.
If yours does not click, then its either broken or disabled though software or something
I currently don and occasionally use a Logitech MX MASTER 2S mouse and it does offer a lot more wrist relief for longer pc sessions for me. I only game generally for a ~4hrs max and notice much more relief on my wrist and forearm with the MX MASTER 2S mouse even when gaming over my Razer Viper and Finalmouse Phantom
An ex-colleague of mine gave me his no-name vertical mouse when he left, I had been curious about it for years and it was suuuuuuch an improvment over the magic mouse in the office! At home I use a G700 that I now need to replace, honestly, I'd consider a gamerified vertical mouse, even though I never tried to game with mine :p Maybe I'll give it a go next week.
Tbh the best Vertical Gaming mouse I know is called Zelotes-18
It's pretty smooth and nice and click and it has a DPI of 10000 (Configurable)
Yes Dawid, I'm still running through your older content and commenting as I go - I switched to a trackball due to carpal tunnel issues. Been running the Logitech MX ERGO for several years now. Also, my desktop real estate is not great so the trackball makes sense. Ever tried a Trackball? My kid always treats me like an invalid for using it and if he needs to get on my PC for any reason, he carries a BT mouse with him to avoid the trackball...but I like it
There are two things that irk me about Logitech mice. They come with terrible quality switches and they come with terrible feet. Fortunately there are aftermarket solutions for both problems even for the Lift. You can buy good quality aftermarket switches that don't develop the dreaded double click and you can get proper teflon mouse feet.
Have to comment. I have a special adjustable pad that I can flexation and supination. 20 degrees raised towards monitor, 15 degrees sideways lower towards ulnar.
No more carpal. Periodically change the angles.
Pro tip: Get rechargeable AA batteries and every device is rechargeable. Even better, keep the AA’s charging and if you run out of battery, you can instantly swap to a fresh one.
All I want is a solid, light, gaming, vertical mouse. I would pay at LEAST 200 for it bc my aim is so much better with it and the grip is comfy as hell. PLEASE GAMING PERIPHERAL COMPANIES, MAKE THIS PLEASE!!!
You need to buy one of these just because the brand name has deep sleep meanings!
Somnambulist SSD 1TB SATA III 6Gb/s 2.5″ 7mm(0.28″) Internal Solid State Drive (Amazon, not an ad)
I use this mouse: Amazon Basics 3-Button Wired USB Computer Mouse, Single, Black
After watching this video, I decided to have a look myself across Amazon to see if a "Gaming" mouse exists in this category.
They do, but they're mostly cheap stupid-silly gimmick ones with cheap thumbsticks pasted on the top. I found one, ONE, that actually seems to be trying to serve the purpose without any bonus/upsell gimmicks pasted on it, the Trust GXT 144. Claims to have a 10,000DPI 20G sensor, also claims that it's in house and not something from Pixart or similar, so I have no idea if it's actually any good. One thing's for sure, though, I suddenly have something on my radar I never even gave a second thought before and I actually kind of want to buy this mouse just to see what I can do myself with such a form factor. There's a 2.4GHz Anker vertical mouse already in my household currently left unused, I might hijack it just to get a feel for the form factor until I can buy the Trust one. When/If I buy it, I might have to make a video review on it sharing my own findings, or maybe I'll just reply to this comment with a mini-review.
While I have 0 experience with vertical mice (I am interested in them), I do have some experience with trackballs.
Namely an Elecom HUGE I bought as a replacement for my failed MX Master 2S.
This after trying an M570 in the meantime, thumb-operated trackballs seem inaccurate going by just that one.
But the finger operated trackball has been good enough for all my usage, including gaming.
It takes a lot of adjusting to, even more than I think a vertical mouse would, but it's similarly an amazing increase in comfort.
Though I did put my HUGE on an angled 3D printed stand and the momentum of it's oversized ball is on the heavy side.
Dawid: *talks about scroll wheel button on G502*
Also Dawid: *doesn't press a very similar button on the MX Master*
Edit: I see you rocking the Sennheiser PC38X! I love my pair. Well-built, good mic, and outright excellent sound quality.
I bought a MX Master 3 (for Mac) expecting it to change my life for the better. It didn't. The one game I play (Command & Conquer: Red Alert) highlights a major flaw in it for even light gaming - click too rapidly, and your clicks will be for nought.
I have ragrets.
Edit: My main OS is Linux, so no Logitech software.
The lift is such a wonderful mice! I picked it up a while ago for health concerns and it does feel great, comfortable and responsive (even while gaming!)
There is a gaming grade vertical mouse. Infact, there are many. I'm currently using a zelotes vertical gaming mouse that has a pmw3325 optical sensor that has a polling rate of 1000hz, and dpiof 10000. Also, check out vertical keyboards. I bought a dyi kit and soldered my own. It's called a split keyboard designed by foostan called corne keyboard.