This is the best video that I've seen on this topic and I was shocked when I realized you actually were a keyboard company. I really appreciate you going through the range of keyboards from various manufacturers honestly. I have a logi 860 and still get shoulder pain but was concerned about he learning curve of some of the choices and I think I'll miss my 10-key. But I will definitely check out Dygma after this video.
Thank you! We really want to bring as much information as possible to our videos and our community! Many of our users suffered from shoulder pain too and got better with the split and tented design of the Raise 🎉🎉🎉
I love that you take the time to acknowledge your competition, and while you still point out why you feel your keyboards are better, you don't just act like they're complete trash. I got a Moonlander earlier this year and have loved it! I do wish it tented more though.
They are fantastic manufacturers, pretty sure they think similar about us. In the end, we're just some weirdos trying to convince the world that our weirder keyboards are better, we should stick together 😂 Other than that, glad to hear you're enjoying the Moonlander. About the tenting, probably there's someone on reddit who has a DIY fix for the angle, we had a lot of solutions for our model from the community, so something along the laine probaly exists aleady 😉
Completely blown away with this video. Great job highlighting strengths of your competitors as well as your own keyboards (also, I want aware that you have an ortholinear option 😉)
Thank you for your comment! We are always trying to show the bigger picture on the Ergonomic Journey and this can't be shown without considering all these great products ❤️
One of the most important feature of Dygma-keyboards is that you support ISO-keyboard-setups, like a german keyboard-setup. On top of that, you are also an European company, so no more import taxes, etc.
ISO users have a hard time finding models, let alone finding keys for their languages. We missed some key distributions, such as Latin American or Italian, but we do our best 😅
We feel you. In fact, we had Dygmates that purchased their Raise during the Brexit week, those were tough, and some of them were pretty angry with us for a moment, until they realized what Brexit did for them 😥
@@DygmaLab Spilt keyboards, especially when tilted, nearly make touchtyping mandatory. That renders nearly irrelevant what's written on the keys. I used an US layout Kinesis Advantage with German keyboard driver with no issues for over a decade. Your fingers don't have eyes and do not mind the wrong letters written on the keys. And by the way, you learn touchtyping much faster if there is the wrong pattern on the keys, even better, if there is nothing written on the keys. Thus, my first choice always would be a keyboard with clean keycaps.
@@miramallo30this is a good assessment. Once you’re working with split boards, the defaults make no difference. Touch typing means you can make every key whatever you want, in fact I won’t usually buy a split keyboard without ensuring I’ll have blank keycaps as an option. Anyone needing non-standard layouts, whether it’s a language thing or a custom layout thing, split programmable keyboards will set you free. I use standard US English keyboards, and my layout is still more custom than nearly anything else out there, so anyone needing ISO layout support will have *no* issues with this kind of keyboard, so long as they’re willing to do some customization
This video is a near perfect primer to entering the world of enthusiast keyboards. The only advice I’d give to anyone watching, avoiding row stagger is *so* much more important than the video suggests. Columnar or ortholinear layouts make a bigger difference than the rest of the options combined for typing comfort. Reaching the y key without taking your right hand off the homerow or the b key without removing either hand from the home row highlights this really clearly! Columnar/ortholinear largely solves the reach issue for most keys, and I’d go so far as to say buying any keyboard over $80 that doesn’t have this feature is a waste of money. This video is a perfect overview of the options out there, but if you want advice, make sure no matter what you buy, you try to find something without row stagger. I’ve got what you would probably consider close to the extreme end of the split keyboard enthusiast options, and I’d give it all up before I went back to row stagger.
We agree that columnar is much comfortable than staggered, but sometimes jumping straight to a split, programmable columnar keyboard might be too much, and then you go back to a normal keyboard. And that's worse than using a split row-staggered keyboard for some time before making the jump to columnar 😊
I don’t disagree that going from basic to high end enthusiast isn’t for everyone, but split row stagger and split columnar isn’t much different, so I would be hard pressed to tell someone to spend money on a high end keyboard that’s still row stagger. No matter what you’re doing full touch typing. If you can already do that, columnar takes an afternoon to adapt to, and if you can’t, split row stagger will be just as brutal as split columnar. Avoiding row stagger is *the* reason to move away from standard keyboards, in my experience, it’s just that most people don’t realize this until they experience it themselves. Anyone spending more than $60 on a keyboard shouldn’t be settling for row stagger
The amount of research the Dygma team does is fire!!! Listening to your community is just one way of saying, "We care about your ideas and we are we with you all the way. Welcome home." This brief comparo makes it easier for everyone to decide which is the best product in the market to date. Wonder when will Dygma get their Red Dot design award. #DygmaForRedDot
Thanks a lot! We felt like this content was missing for everyone who would be interested in ergonomic keyboards, so we just posted it to share our experience and views. Seemingly this is helping a lot, so we'll try to put some more conten along the line. Thought the Red Dot will help, the best prize is the recognition from the users, thanks a lot for the support!
I would say the last part of the Ergonomic journey is hand wiring a custom made Ergo board like a Dactyl manuform. I personally can't wait to get my Defy though ;)
It could be, but as tech evolves, we hope we can create more and more steps and create unseen things. We don't know what future holds, but we're eager to find out 😊 We're working our a***s off to deliver the Defy in time!
I just pre-ordered the Dygma Raise 2, shortly after watching this video and looking into your company. Despite already owning a mechanical keyboard, a friend introduced me to ergonomic keyboards a few days ago and I have been doing research since. Every youtube channel seems to be talking about the same 3 brands, but I wasn't convinced by any of them. I had heard of Dygma but hadn't really looked into your products yet, but found this video to be so informative and well put together that I started binging all the content in your channel. I think what really caught my attention is how there seems to be a sense of community here as well as on Discord and Reddit, and your videos all have a good sense of humor. So after checking the product on your website and seeing it ticks all my boxes, it was a no-brainer. I really liked the level of customization you offer when ordering as well! I can't wait to get my hands on the Raise 2, literally :D
The end of my keyboard ergonomic journey is the Dygma Defy with an integrated trackball. Unfortunately the latter is not available yet, but I'm more than happy with the Defy without trackball. Hopefully I will receive my new toy/tool next January ☺
We hope to add steps even further than the Defy in the future 😉 As for the trackball, we considered it for a while, but it took so much space from the thumb cluster and was detrimental for left handed users, so we decided against. Design always means compromise, and this time it did not go your way 😋 Thanks for the suggestion and let's hope we can deliver the Defy in no time!
@@DygmaLab I'm excited to see what Dygma has in store for us and am also hoping for a finger-operated trackball add-on module. I imagine a Ploopy Nano which can be attached to left of the 'H' key (or to the right of 'G' for lefties) which will seamlessly interface with the existing hardware and software. For example activate mouse layer when trackball is manipulated and communicate through the same connection used by the keyboard.
What I’d really love is not a trackball, but that little red nubbin that old IBM laptops had. I wonder if maybe patents or lack of parts makes that impossible. Still an integrated trackball or pad would be great. Keymouse tried this, but their implementation seems like it had some issues.
That will have to wait quite a while, tbh. We've set that project on stand by until we can find a proper solutions, the ones we tested were not cutting it in terms of comfort 😅
I love the humour in dygma films. I am tracking dygma progress for 4-5 years and I am thinking 2023 is finally the time to buy dygma defy. I dont like the price, but if something is good it needs to cost, and the features you have included in your product definitely are the 'wet dream' of professionals who spend long days in front of keyboard doing their job.
Another important feature is a software to quickly and easily change the configuration/layers of your keyboard. Installing, configuring and flashing QMK/VIA/VIAL is a non-trivial task, even for technical people.
We're aware of it and we try to make Bazecor asuser-friendly as possible. For the past months our goal has been making the software as friendly as possible instead of adding more features. Thanks for the input!
I feel this. I have never been able to customize my KB as it uses QMK and I just can't wrap my head around it. I'm scared to death i will do something wrong and then I have no more KB at all lol
I love that the TinTin poster is proudly on display in the background. Fond childhood memories of going to the library and reading the comics over and over. Also can’t wait to get a Dygma once the feature set gets just right 👌
We have some more posters to display, if you have some more suggestions, we'd love to hear. I mean, we need a good reason to charge more posters to the company 😂😂
It makes us really happy that you liked it. Coming from you, it's a real honor 😊 Finding a balance between being instructive and easy to watch was pretty tricky. We feel like we've tiptoed over essential topics, but we hope we got the main point across 😅
You talked about tenting but didn't mention negative tilt. From what I've read, it seems like this is one of the key ergonomic features to consider, especially for standing desk users. Would love to see a video about this.
You're right. Luckily, we cover reverse tilting in this two other videos th-cam.com/video/OSiu66ITd5Y/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/UAjCgaP_jNw/w-d-xo.html 😊
Imagine a hotswap, tented, ortholinear, staggered, and split keyboard akin to the Iris, Sofle V2, Kyria, etc. With the option to add rotary encoders on both the left and right halves, along with a pointing stick (nipple mouse) on the right half. The encoders could be placed in the thumb region, while the pointing stick could be positioned between the keys near the index finger. With this design, the encoders could be used as vertical/horizontal scroll wheels or volume/seeking control wheels, this and the pointing stick would significantly reduce the need to reach for a mouse. I'd love to retain the number and function rows as they can double as macro keys or media controls, and you can keep the novelty of smaller keyboard with easy to reach keys through programmable layers. Don't find an OLED screen to be necessary; however, compatibily with existing software and perhaps on-board storage to keep changes across devices would be great. While a palm rest would be a nice, it could be optional. My only concern is the potential cost, which personally might be hard to justify for a keyboard at the moment.
That's a very entincing idea, the problem is that adding those modules in the thumbs takes out space for thumbs, also, if you can't chage the position, users with large or small hands can find them not as comfortable as you might expect, Making them modular could be an option, that way users with different hand sizes would have less truble with them, stil, as you point, the price might be an issue. We do not agree on the Functions row, but your idea is very interesting and well-thought, thanks a lot for the input!
As a data analyst the Raise will be my endgame keyboard a few months down the road. Just wish there was some place to get custom keycaps for it. But never the less a great ergonomic keyboard IMO, should be better(wrist, forearms, shoulders) than the Alice layout I'm using now.
Thanks for the kind words. As for the keycaps, you can use any set, the only keys you won't be able to replace on the Raise are the thumb ones, those are the only non-standard keys on the keyboard 😉
I am considering buying a Dygma raise, but this review from the Wirecutter left me a bit puzzled "We dismissed the Dygma Raise because it doesn't have a neutral slope. The Raise tilts upward, from back to front, 3 degrees, which goes against ergonomic principles." I'm not sure what they mean, and wonder if you have comments.
That statement is wrong in so many ways. The thing is that your wrists should have a neutral angle to avoid straining them (you don't want to extend them). There are many factors that account for that, such as how you sit or how you place your hands on the table. And also, the keyboard. Ideally, it should have a 0º. The Raise has a 3º, which is very low, but that's without considering the palmpads. With the palm pads, it's less than 0.5º. Plus, it's a very thin keyboard, which is way more important for ergonomics -specially for how most people sit to work- than having a 0º tilt angle.
Another comfort level is low profile switches paired with standard height caps. I love Mx low profile + MT3 profile caps which have some benefits of the well while keeping a hot swap PCB.
Great explanation! I returned to a MS Ergo keyboard after using a variety of normal and small keyboards; I was having too much wrist and elbow pain on the straight keyboards and had the old school MS Ergo one laying around. Once I got up to speed again I used a Goldtouch split model with the hinge at top center for several years. It is cheap, and an awesom step into the split world. I'd seen The ZSA models and moving to one of them was the obvious next step. At the time I didn't know that so many other split designs existed. I'm using the Ergodox EZ right now and am exploring what, if anything, is the next step. I hadn't heard of Dygma yet, I'm afraid to go check out the products because if I like one, I'm back to relearning to type. I definitely had a rather steep learning curve on the Ergodox, and 12 months later I'm still altering angles and reassigning keys once in a while, there's just so many config options; layers, tap, double tap, tap and hold, macros, combos... I'm getting it right for me, at the moment at least. If I change jobs or even pick up new tasks I could envision another round of mapping a layout. My only complaint is that as a not-so-great touch typist I like symbols, letters on my keys. I don't spend al day at the keyboard anymore and just fell back into looking down at times. I can't imagine trying to learn this layout when all blank or only alphas and 40 odd blanks. I also like to swap keycaps at times for a new look. Once you get into the odder keyboard designs finding the proper size keycaps for some characters gets hard and you may realize that you just are never going to find that 1.5u keycap for ~ and `... or for Enter. You might find ergo sets (in my case) but as the layout is so variable often they are largely blank outside alphas. Or you end up buying a lot of sets and hoping the colors are very close or at least complimentary as you need to use a mix. This is further complicated with layers, I'm testing a one layer set up now and find I really don't miss the added layers. You may or may not be able to do that depending on what you do, whether you are going no mouse, or have a better memory than I do.
Hi, there! What a journey you had! Thanks a lot for sharing the experience 🙌 Regarding the configuration of the Ergodox, I'd suggest you start getting used to the features one by one. Start with some easy layers. Let's say one with the arrows on ESDF and some symbols. Once you get used to that layer, you might need to look less at the keyboard, and you can move on to the next feature. At least, that is what worked for us 😅 As for getting used to touch-typing, there's nothing else to do but practice and, again, take small steps, first, the alphas, then get used to modifiers in the thumb cluster, and once you did both, you'll be lightning-fast! Finally, the keycaps thing is a problem for columnar models like the Ergodox because they mount way more 1U, have no use for space bars, etc... Manufacturers are making more sets, but the options are still limited. You can use keycaps with a uniform profile, like XDA, buy a set for a 100% keyboard, and you'll have enough 1u keycaps for the board in one set. Other than that, you can try KBD fans or some other big vendor, from time to time they sell sets that might work. Again, thanks for sharing, and hope you get back to your typing speed in no time 😉
@@DygmaLabF= With my current layout I have only one key that is way out of it's row and sticks up noticeably. That's hyphen/underscore, which I only need frequently if coding which is rare. I haven't found a need for layers yet. I have combos and multiple assignments. Layer switching requires at least 2 keypresses, which is same as most of my needs, macros and combos can handle >2 keystroke moves like switching workspaces. I know people who use layers heavily, I just don't have a need. I have to say the Defy is a nice looking keyboard. The lack of alternate color keycaps to fit the thumbs is not ideal; I understand why but maybe if enough units sell , a small market for customs will emerge or someone will release a printable design for anyone who'd like to change it up. It would be cool if the maker put the files out, as a favor to the community. No conflict unless other keycaps are being planned in house. Any plans to have popup demo booths in the US? I'd like to see/try before purchasing. Seattle, San Francisco, NYC, tech trade shows might be a way to get hands on your keyboards that are on the fence, like me. I'm near Seattle and would come to check it out. Or I'd happily test a demo unit for a month, review it (I'm not a youtuber but could try a review) and send back. Hint.. hint :) Thx for the response to my late post, that's a nice move and cool to know someone there takes time to read comments.
Alice/Arisu layouts are a step in between common layouts and split ergonomic ones. Akko and Feker already have very affordable mechanical hotswap Alice boards, but with proprietary software; Keychron have just released two versions (regular, extended) for the V (plastic) series of VIA/QMK-compatible boards, and had the more expensive Q (aluminum) series for a while. Keychron are also working on a split, so we'll likely see a very affordable split board from them in the near future.
The x-bows is a fantastic starter ergo keyboard. I've had mine for about 2 years and it's fantastic. I'm planning on upgrading now, but it was probably the best $100 I've spent
Nice, it does look like a good design and a good price to it, great place to start. The main problem is that you're stuck with thhat width between the "halves" but it is indeed a great start anyways! It's also more columnar/ortho than staggered 💪
The Defy is the next I will get. It has all the things I want to try. Will try to get it when it comes out. The plan is for the streaming/editing/main PC, but I'll try it for gaming as well to see how it is.
You should be fine for all the tasks. Gaming-wise might require some adaptation, but some of us are old enough to remeber playing Doom with the arrows, which is very similar to using a columnar keyboard for gaming 😅
Then you should be absolutely fine 😉 The most important thing is getting used to the thumb keys and the new arms positon, but once you get used to, there's no getting back.
I really needed this video. But still can't decide if I want to go for the Raise or Defy. Kinda just want to get the Defy but I am worried that I'll have trouble adjusting. And I don't want to spend even more money on another keyboard to ease that transition. Please keep posting videos!
It depends on your needs and current skillset. For instance, coming from regular keyboards, the transition to the Raise feels almost effortless. Probably, the biggest thing you have to consider is this: with the Raise you can use it as an standard keyboard, with the Defy, you MUST give a lot of use to the thumbkeys, that's probably the thing you have to keep in mind.
I'm not a great typist but changing to a columnar KB wasn't too bad. About a week to adjust and it actually improved my typing. Just thought I would throw that out there even though I don't have a Dygma as the layout wasn't available 2 years ago but the one I have is not split so I kind of regret that. Still the columnar layout did help a lot regarding pain in my hands if not my shoulders lol
Windows and macOS lets you use multiple keyboards, so for the longest time I just used one side of my laptop keyboard for one hand and a separate keyboard for the other hand. I think I'm finally ready to buy a dedicated split keyboard if they can be as far apart as I want.
Depends what you do. Do you write a lot, split. Do you write less then use mouse? 60% for me over split. With split, my mouse always ends up in wierd place.
The advantage of the split is more with the posture that it is with the mouse. In time, almost everybody uses the mouse in the middle because there's plenty of room there, but at first, finding the right place for the mouse is challenging
Your thoughts on the glove80? Im in the Game for a new keyboard and found you guys as well as the Reddit subs that help me join ergonomics with mechanics and customization. Never used a concave keyboard and the most ergonomic one I’ve had so far is the cheap one by Microsoft which held up well for years at work and already drove coworkers crazy when they had to use my computer. My dasKeyboard ultimate without characters enhanced their frustration so rarely anybody sits in my place. I want to make my workspace absolutely unusable to others and for that - and happy hands 🙌🏻 - I got the UHK, Dygma and the Glove on my list. 😂 (This narrative took an unexpected turn along the way)
We're usually not fond of key wells because it makes the keyboard taller, and the switches are not hot-swappable. But if you have a standing desk and don't mind staying with the same switches, the key well is more ergonomic than traditional keyboards.
Big props on mentioning Ben Vallack's end game. Although I think the order of the steps are up for debate, this is a stellar all around jumping off point, one which is great to point ergo newbies to.
Thanks 🤗 We completely agree, the steps and the end of the journey are up for debate. In fact, they will probably be dated in a few years. And that's a good thing, because it means keyboards are moving forward, which is the goal 😉
@@DygmaLab admittedly I'm not currently using a dygma board, so I'm not sure if my exact setup is possible in your software, but I use the Ergobox-EZ 🙃. I switch layers by holding down the respective key and return on release. Q for mouse; W for arrow-keys and pos1, end etc; E for numblock, R for special characters and Y for function keys. Then I have a thumb key for additional special characters. Almost all changes are on the right hand side. I also use a modified version of colemak-dh as the key-layout, but that's not necessary at all, of course. In my opinion the perfect layout would be just 36 keys plus a decent thumb-cluster with 3-5 keys. Love your vids btw. Keep spreading the love for the objectively best keyboard layout, whichever flavour. 🧡
I wonder what can you say about "ergo" and still use the illogical QWERTY? That is the first thing when I think about "ergo", you can go "ergo" and help yourself against some health problems (as RSI) by changing your layout even on your cheap plastic noname keyboard for under 5$. And the next necessary things come: your desk, your chair, how high are these? The most important your sitting (or standing) posture makes your "ergo". Then the last ornament stuffs come: keycap, switches, material of your case, how bling is your RGB etc... these luxuries would please your eyes but have nothing to do with "ergo".
Hello! We use QWERTY because is more friendly for the users, but we encourage everyone to adapt the keyboard to Colemak, Halmak, or any other more balanced layout. The keyboard's software makes it very easy! You can also go with the plastic keyboard and change the layout, whatever helps you to improve. As for the other elements of the setup, well, we intend to rework them in the future, but we have to go little by little 🙂
Those thumbkeys reminds me of the MMORPG mouse with 12 buttons on the side of the gaming mouse. If programmable it just might elevate my gaming. Too bad can't find one that's somewhat affordable. Actually all of these extra features comes with a heafty price tag or just simply not available
@@DygmaLab Sounds good! Going thru this Ergonomic Journey myself and I'm currently comfortable with the split and tenting with the Kinesis; so much that I can't go back. Now I feel like I'm ready for the next stages it's only been half a month. I even observed that my fingers likes to travel in columns already, so columnar might be an easy one for me to get used to. Although, I'm still not back at my 80ish wpm, but I think I've made my fingers pliable and ready a new setup, or maybe it's just me being lazy and want to get used to the new better think instead of wasting my muscle memory. So yeah, thinking about getting your Defy keyboard as my final destination for the thumbkeys and columnar. Also I the way that your keyboards are built, if it's tented up so much, maybe there will be less crumbs and hair getting stuck in between the keys. Too bad it will take a few weeks to get to me, guess can only do is to wait and suffer the cries from my finger calling for the keys be straight already
my keyboard journey are started on some cheap 65%, then i tried to use smaller keyboard (feel more challenging) and i fell in love with them,but i feel a pain in my shoulder after using it because my hands are cramped in a small form factor. then i tried corne keyboard, the DIY split programmable keyboard with 42 keys, it feels great, and cheap, i got it only 100$ and it got a tenting, although smaller one, but its a great keyboard after all.
What a story! The Corne is great, and is a very advanced keyboard, not only because of the 42 keys, but because has to be soldered. However, if you like that, it's a feature, not a bug 😊 Also, getting used to 42 keys requires training, but certainly pays off, congratulations! If you want to add more angle to the tenting, here are some DIY tenting solutions from our community, hope it helps! dygma.notion.site/Dygma-Wiki-6e8905e1f928496a8736f7dc29e432bb
I am a bit worried how I will adjust to the columnar layout once my defy arrives but hey gotta get out of that comfort zone lol. Another great Video by the way!
It takes some time but you'll be able to overcome it. If you've been using a 100% layout keyboard, you're already using the numpad, the navigation cluster and the arrows on a columnar disposition 😉
This has me rather worried that I've jumped too much into the deep end, as I'm just going from a standard mechanical keyboard to the defy. I've never experienced split, tented, or columnar before in any sense. Is there anything I can do in the meantime to soften this transition?
I don't think it is as huge of a problem as the video makes it seem. Jumping from row staggered layout to column staggered layout is not that big in my experience. The biggest challenge is learning new places for modifiers like ctrl etc. Non-split to split jump is also not that bad, it will highlight stuff like pressing b with your right hand or y with your left but if you have a decent touch typing form you will be fine. If your typing style is more of a "hunt and peck" type the learning curve will be harsh because that will not work at all on a split keeb. And finally tenting is just something you can ignore if it makes you feel uncomfortable or if it hinders your typing. To get the basics down I'd say it takes something from a few days to a few weeks of time. A few weeks might be a bit problematic if you use the keeb to work or study daily but my advice would be to do work/study on a regular keyboard for a few days while learning to use the split keeb on your free time, then as soon as possible just start doing everything on the split keeb to make the transition faster. The biggest learning curve is how to customize layers and how to utilize programmability. For me that took over a year and I definitely could try, experiment and learn more. And to actually answer your question.. Learn touch typing if you haven't learned it yet, and if you have then find out if you have some of those bad habits of pressing a key with a wrong hand. My experience that it's mostly y and b. Also be mindful of "cheats" in touch typing. For example E and D are supposed to be pressed with your left hand middle finger but it is pretty common (and faster) to type the ending '-ed' so that you press E with your ring finger and D with your middle finger. These are usually considered fine but doing some of these on a columnar keeb can feel uncomfortable. This '-ed' example is actually one of those uncomfortable ones. I hope this helps!
@@armeli thank very much, appreciate the advice and response. I'm a developer so behind a keyboard most hours of the day... I'm certainly not in the hunt and peck category but I've been trying to do some touch type practice in the mornings still and getting there, shockingly slow at first heh... but as soon as I tried to touch type properly during work I found myself reverting to my old typing style (which has admittedly still increased since my practice even if its not perfect typing form.) Sounds like I should ignore all the layers etc until it feels comfortable and accept that there will be an inevitable slow down transition phase. Thanks again
The best thing to do is adapt to the changes one by one. First, get used to the split, start by keeping the halves close and separate them little by little, the adjustment to the columnar layout should come naturally. Then move to customizing the thumb keys and play with the layers. Finally, adjust the tenting and find the perfect angle for your. That should not only soften the blow, but will also make it an amazing journey 😊
Absolutely love how you're fair about your competition. How do you feel about Zack Fridman's modular keyboard project? It's not available yet (probably won't be for a long time) by it looks absolutely wowzers.
We've seen the video on the Mirage MK3, and it looks really nice. The customization possibilities are endless. All in all, any split model that cares about ergonomics and enccourages the uyse of the thumbs, is a win in our minds!
I want to take the leap to the full split. I really do. I just can't imagine life without the num pad. I live in Excel. How do those keyboards deal with numbers? I ain't going across the top and there's no num pad, so what's going on?
wonder how much a company could get out of setting up testing spots in public places where people can try out all the stages because I really would buy a small fee to play around
We want to start going to technology fairs to show the keyboard "in real life". And maybe retailers once we're big enough 😊 Or... you can plan a trip to Valencia (Spain)
Good for you! No matter what you go for, your hands will help you. And if you need some advice or just a community to help you, our Dygmates are also adept at printing 😉
Well, some people would prefer a split keyboard that can be used as a normal one, just for the sake of getting used to the split design. The idea is that you can start using it as a normal keyboard and with time grow into a more split position where each hand is responsible for certain keys. There are some scenarios where you might want to use it together, like for gaming. Although we highly recommend using just one half for that. It helps with the transition ❤️
You're right, there are many other features that can be present on all the models but we didn't talk about it, blank keycaps, keycaps profile, different switches and so on. We have other videos about those topics in our channel, like this one here: th-cam.com/video/14bQeqhlTNM/w-d-xo.html
Great overview! My compliments for daring to mention the competitors. The last level, key wells, indeed cuts both ways. Key wells feel great, really great! But they come at a price not to be hot swappable. For me (I prefer cherry MX browns anyways), it is worth the price, but that's for every one to decide by himself. By the way, they actually are not the final level. There still is Data Hand, and - more contemporary - Charachorder.
Hi Maximillian! Thanks for the complments, although, we don't see other ergo manufacturers as "competition". The way we see it, there's still a vast majority of users with regular keyboards, the goal is move them to ergonomic models, then, we can start competing. For now, we're all in the same boat, of sorts😂 As for the final level. Honestly, we hope this video a few years. That means we have made advancements and improvements to establish even more levels on top of the current ones. Resulting in more comfortable keyboards for everyone 😊
You can definitely have a hot-swappable split keyboard with key wells! Dactyl manuforms (and other similar 3D printed chassis types) are now able to support hot swap inserts with the right modifications. If you can't 3D print and wire it all up, there are places that will assemble it all for you.
Would be similar to what we explain about the Kinesis, they help, but they are bulkier, less comfortable to transport and don't have the hot-swappable feature. But in the end it's a matter of what you prefer. If you move away from conventional keyboards, it's a win for us, no matter which model you pick.
why does the Dygma Raise not have bluetooth connectivity? you are advertising it as a middle step keyboard for people who might eventually choose the Dygma Defy columnar keyboard but you are limiting it's connectivity. Please add multi-device bluetooth connectivity.
The Dygma Raise was designed in 2017 when split wireless keyboards were fairly exceptional. In fact, it's not been until last year that the first commercial Bluetooth split keyboards have been available. We plan to develop a Raise V2 with the same wireless capabilities and other surprise features 😊
I'm amazed that such things even exists. I was just looking for suggestions of a better keyboard that would reduce a bit of pain and entered the rabbit hole
While I found this video a good summary of many of the perks of ergonomic keyboards, the bias toward dygma was uncomfortable for me. The hype and special effects reserved for your own board with the mere shrug at concave key wells and no mention of the glove80 kinda slayed me. I’m looking for a video to explain ergonomic keyboards to my physical therapist and for those reasons it can’t be this one
Used Dygma Raise for the last year. I will never go back to a normal keyboard. The only time I will buy another one is when my existing one breaks or when the Raise goes wireless.
You definitely can, but you would have to use an external one. There are many available and you can even use macro boards. If you're getting a Dygma board, you can also configure the numpad to a 2nd layer that is easily accessible 😉
I got the kinesis freestyle a few months ago when I started developing arthritic pain in my wrists. Overall, I like the keyboard and I think it accomplishes what it’s meant to do. However, I personally cannot adjust to the “tall“ keys after using slim profile keyboards for over a decade. I just cannot get used to it. It’s like my fingers are getting stuck between the keys! yes, it doesn’t have 100% of the keys (I miss my number pad!), But it has some handy keys instead, such as copy cut and paste keys, to prevent using modifier keys.
Hello, and thanks for sharing your experience! Glad to hear your hands are imrpoving. As for the problems with the keycaps, you can try to change the keycaps, maybe using a uniform profile like XDA, or a shorter profile like the Cherry ones. Hope it helps!
So, I'm looking for an ergonomic keyboard since basically all my work involves using my PC, but I want something with a numpad because I do 3D work and many of the shortcuts I use rely on the numpad. I do want a hot swappable keyboard too though, and I'm hoping you guys have suggestions for something that fits all those bills?
Most ergonomic keyboards use layers to access the number pad (kind of like FN keys, but you can "lock" them). But other people get a separated number pad.
If you don't know where to start.. get Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard (40$ original), then learn touch typing -> dygma defy or kinesis advantage 360 Respect to DygmaLab for mentioning your main (and only) competitor kinesis advantage 360
Though they are models with similar features, we don't really see them as competition. The real competition is convincing people that ergo models are the way to go. Once most users move to ergonomic keyboards we'll start the competition, but for now, us, ZSA, Keyboardio, Kinesis, and all other brands are on the same boat: defeat the old keyboards.
That's a good suggestion. Not only from a user experience but also money is important. We always give the same advice, if spending X amount of money is a problem; go for a more affordable model. In time, you'll be able to move on to the next steps of the journey, but to do so, you have to feel comfortable with all the aspects of the purchase.
I think we mention the Iris and the Kyria, but the Corne is a good alternative too if you're looking for keyboards with a smaller footprint and less keys. We tried to focus on the commercially available, as those are usually more difficult to find (and build) for the average user.
I love your videos D. 😉😉 They are very enjoyable to watch and I like very much the details. I love the dygma-defy and the dygma-raise-2. I will try them one of this days. I am trying to move out of traditional keyboards 😊😊 Also, with all respect, i want to tell that you are very beautiful. 😍😍😍😍 Please let me know if you come to Portugal . Thx
Awesome video! Clear explanations and I learned a lot; I didn't know about tenting for keyboards. I need that so much and it will fit perfectly with my vertical mouse :)
Thanks a lot 😊 It's great to hear that more and more people are finding about these models. One thing: using a keyboard with tenting sets the hands on a different position; a different hand separation, could require adjusting the chair and definitely a higher hand positoin. Therefore it might feel weird for the first days, don't worry, is completely normal 😉
Do you have a recommendation for a split & tenting keyboard ideal for someone who uses the 10-key A LOT? Only thought I have is programming one in but am interested in other options.
If you want completely split, then you need to go to a columnar keyboard like the Defy and the Moonlander and have a layer with the 10-key. Instead of moving your hand, you change the layer and the 10 key is under your fingers. With columnar it's very intuitive. If you still want staggered and not to program anything, then check the Logitech Ergo K860. Fixed split, tenting and it's a full-size keyboard with your 10-key and all.
I am having surgery. I type for a living. I will be in a sling for 6 weeks. I want a split keyboard, so that I can have the right keyboard, near my right hand, without extending my arm. Which keyboard do you recommend.
Hi! If you have never used a columnar or an ortho keyboard I would recommend the Dygma Raise 2 with tenting kit, so you can start typing with your keyboard elevated or with negative tilt, which will really help you while writing. If you have used a columnar or an ortho keyboard before, then I recommend the Dygma Defy, it also has tenting and negative tilt so you can try it too. Both are programmable so it can help you avoid unnecessary wrist movements 💪
I guess what you'd want is a concave keywell. We'll explored it, but it's almost impossible to make that with hot-swappable sockets, and we looove to try different switches. But we'll keep trying 😊
This is interesting. Didn't expect all your recommendations to be split keyboards. Has the ergonomic-ness of these type of keyboards been verified, if you don't mind me asking. Think I will try one. On another note do these keyboards also take care of the whole wrist support issue. What are your views on that. Tia.
Hi, looked it up. Would have bought the keyboard you guys are selling, unfortunately it’s kind of outside my budget. Plus, I don’t think it’s available in India anyway. Can you recommend something budget-friendly that’s available more widely. Thanks in advance!
Better for you 🙂 Although you might be tilting the wrist to reach fro those keys, whis is not ideal either. Review it because it might lead to wrist pain and discomfort. The thing is that touch typing encourages usgin the pinikie for those keys, hence the assumption on th video 🙂
Awesome video. I started my journey with mechanical keyboards from WASD, then went for a split one with UHK. Finally landed on the Moonlander and I love it. But I keep second-guessing myself... do I need the Defy?? Wireless, built-in tenting, more thumb keys, fewer keys because of that...
That's completely up to you. If you're at the Moonlander stage, you're already using healthy model, so you're not in a hurry to upgrade it. We'd love to have you as a Dygmate, but you might be at the stage where you can explore possibilities and see what model suits you better
I'm brazilian and these keyboards are really expensive here :/ I want to buy one, but I cannot buy a wrong keyboard But I want a split keyboard ortholinear. I'm thinking in moonlander or dygma defy
The Moonlander and Defy are very similar in form factor. Of course, we would recommend the Defy, because we make it, but I think feature by feature, the Defy is superior in almost anything. Well, their keycaps are PBT, and ours are ABS. And their software allows for some advanced options that we still have in Beta, but our UI is mores intuitive and much faster 😊
It's honestly hilarious how bad the default QWERTY keyboard is! I'm planning on getting an ergonomic keyboard when I can get the money together (ZSA Moonlander) and I don't think I'll be going back!
You're more than right! There are so many good options that staying in normal QWERTY non-split creating problems on your body is a bad move. Check out the Dygma Defy if you haven't 😉
Thank you for the great explanation on this type of keyboards. Despite having your own company, you really succeed in explaining obljectively the different sets which leads to a split columner keyboard layout. I just learned today about those keyboards, and am eager to get one! If I go for Dygma, I would probably go directly to the Ryse, so as not to have to upgrande from a regular to a columnar layout later. It's good that you give the option of wireless or not however. Prices of these types of keyboard, whatever the brand, are however very high. I wonder what justifies it. Is it a current fad? It would be great to make those more accessible to the general public. I might get one personnally however. I am still wondering a bit on the switches type. Would would be closest to the Mac butterfly keyboard (which I have learned to like and am used to now) ?
Thank you Pierre!!! If you're coming form a Mac butterfly keyboard we always recommend Kailh Silent Brown. It's tactile with a nice bump. But you'd still need to adapt, as mechanical keyboard switches have longer travel distances (the amount the key goes down when you press it). Here's another video that can help th-cam.com/video/noUj7uUyIk4/w-d-xo.html
@@DygmaLab Thanks. that sounds nice ! When in September do you think the Defy will be ready for delivery in Europe, and up to when is the preorder period?
@PierreJohnsonOnline delivery will start in September for the whole world but it'll continue through to October. The pre-order period will finish the moment we're ready to ship the first keyboards, so it won't be there much more 😅
It depends on the keyboard. The Dygma Defy for example offers RF and Bluetooth as an option. And the Kinesis Advantage 360 pro and Glove80 have Bluetooth too (but not RF).
omg I'm half way through this video and I'm in love... with the keyboard. but what is the lady's name? muy cliente! you can sense the passion and character, yet still classy and professional.
Hi Jeremy, We're working on it, for the time being, the only solution is use fractioned payment from Pay Pal, though this might not be ideal, is the best we can do at the moment, sorry!
great video, lot's of valuable information for beginners to quickly get on track. I was missing mainly two things if I was to provide some critics: 1. the "end" is not really the end. IMO dactyl manuform could be an even further improvement. Furthermore, 2. I generally miss the discussion about pointing devices in combination with ergonomic keyboards. Having a split ergonomic keyboard with a fancy layout is great, but we still have to switch between mouse/trackball/touchpad and keyboard thousand times a day. I have never tried, but somehow including a trackball or similar into one of the splits could be the next logical step. Nevertheless, great video with an awesome host! Please take my money! 😀
Cool, thank you for your comment! You're right, pointing device is something that needs to be taken in consideration for sure. We have an upcoming video related to different mouse options, and it will definitely help. We also plan to create a pointing device in the future to pair with the Dygma boards 🥰
Nice video. I would probably have got one of your if I had seen them before i bought my Moonlander. Aside from the practicality, the cable on the moonlander spoils the aesthetics somewhat. If I upgrade, I may check you guys out next time.
We were aware of it since the beggining, but we decided to start on the staggered model, we thought it could be a bit risky as a first launch, but we've always been part of the gang 😎
That's a very interesting question. When we were deciding on the switches we would offer, we considered Cherry's silent models. But compared to Kailh's they make some more noise and feel mushier, so we went with Kailh models. However, you can always swap the switches if you prefer Cherry 😉
That's great! Everyone is different and some things seem easier for some people and more difficult for others, for example it took me about two weeks to get used to columnar
OMG, why is EVERYTHING a journey now? I can't wait for the band Journey to go on tour again. Then I can blog about my "Journey to see Journey journey."
This is the best video that I've seen on this topic and I was shocked when I realized you actually were a keyboard company. I really appreciate you going through the range of keyboards from various manufacturers honestly. I have a logi 860 and still get shoulder pain but was concerned about he learning curve of some of the choices and I think I'll miss my 10-key. But I will definitely check out Dygma after this video.
Thank you! We really want to bring as much information as possible to our videos and our community!
Many of our users suffered from shoulder pain too and got better with the split and tented design of the Raise 🎉🎉🎉
I love that you take the time to acknowledge your competition, and while you still point out why you feel your keyboards are better, you don't just act like they're complete trash. I got a Moonlander earlier this year and have loved it! I do wish it tented more though.
They are fantastic manufacturers, pretty sure they think similar about us. In the end, we're just some weirdos trying to convince the world that our weirder keyboards are better, we should stick together 😂
Other than that, glad to hear you're enjoying the Moonlander. About the tenting, probably there's someone on reddit who has a DIY fix for the angle, we had a lot of solutions for our model from the community, so something along the laine probaly exists aleady 😉
Me too. Just wish it was wireless
They've added a new tenting attachment since I bought mine. You can add a LOT more lean to the Moonlander now. You might want to check it out.
Completely blown away with this video. Great job highlighting strengths of your competitors as well as your own keyboards (also, I want aware that you have an ortholinear option 😉)
Thank you for your comment! We are always trying to show the bigger picture on the Ergonomic Journey and this can't be shown without considering all these great products ❤️
One of the most important feature of Dygma-keyboards is that you support ISO-keyboard-setups, like a german keyboard-setup. On top of that, you are also an European company, so no more import taxes, etc.
*cries in brexit*
ISO users have a hard time finding models, let alone finding keys for their languages. We missed some key distributions, such as Latin American or Italian, but we do our best 😅
We feel you. In fact, we had Dygmates that purchased their Raise during the Brexit week, those were tough, and some of them were pretty angry with us for a moment, until they realized what Brexit did for them 😥
@@DygmaLab Spilt keyboards, especially when tilted, nearly make touchtyping mandatory. That renders nearly irrelevant what's written on the keys. I used an US layout Kinesis Advantage with German keyboard driver with no issues for over a decade. Your fingers don't have eyes and do not mind the wrong letters written on the keys.
And by the way, you learn touchtyping much faster if there is the wrong pattern on the keys, even better, if there is nothing written on the keys.
Thus, my first choice always would be a keyboard with clean keycaps.
@@miramallo30this is a good assessment. Once you’re working with split boards, the defaults make no difference. Touch typing means you can make every key whatever you want, in fact I won’t usually buy a split keyboard without ensuring I’ll have blank keycaps as an option. Anyone needing non-standard layouts, whether it’s a language thing or a custom layout thing, split programmable keyboards will set you free.
I use standard US English keyboards, and my layout is still more custom than nearly anything else out there, so anyone needing ISO layout support will have *no* issues with this kind of keyboard, so long as they’re willing to do some customization
This video is a near perfect primer to entering the world of enthusiast keyboards. The only advice I’d give to anyone watching, avoiding row stagger is *so* much more important than the video suggests. Columnar or ortholinear layouts make a bigger difference than the rest of the options combined for typing comfort. Reaching the y key without taking your right hand off the homerow or the b key without removing either hand from the home row highlights this really clearly! Columnar/ortholinear largely solves the reach issue for most keys, and I’d go so far as to say buying any keyboard over $80 that doesn’t have this feature is a waste of money.
This video is a perfect overview of the options out there, but if you want advice, make sure no matter what you buy, you try to find something without row stagger.
I’ve got what you would probably consider close to the extreme end of the split keyboard enthusiast options, and I’d give it all up before I went back to row stagger.
We agree that columnar is much comfortable than staggered, but sometimes jumping straight to a split, programmable columnar keyboard might be too much, and then you go back to a normal keyboard. And that's worse than using a split row-staggered keyboard for some time before making the jump to columnar 😊
I don’t disagree that going from basic to high end enthusiast isn’t for everyone, but split row stagger and split columnar isn’t much different, so I would be hard pressed to tell someone to spend money on a high end keyboard that’s still row stagger. No matter what you’re doing full touch typing. If you can already do that, columnar takes an afternoon to adapt to, and if you can’t, split row stagger will be just as brutal as split columnar. Avoiding row stagger is *the* reason to move away from standard keyboards, in my experience, it’s just that most people don’t realize this until they experience it themselves.
Anyone spending more than $60 on a keyboard shouldn’t be settling for row stagger
Glad to see Dominique becoming more involved with Dygma again.
She's our official spokesperson 🥰
The amount of research the Dygma team does is fire!!! Listening to your community is just one way of saying, "We care about your ideas and we are we with you all the way. Welcome home." This brief comparo makes it easier for everyone to decide which is the best product in the market to date. Wonder when will Dygma get their Red Dot design award. #DygmaForRedDot
Thanks a lot! We felt like this content was missing for everyone who would be interested in ergonomic keyboards, so we just posted it to share our experience and views. Seemingly this is helping a lot, so we'll try to put some more conten along the line. Thought the Red Dot will help, the best prize is the recognition from the users, thanks a lot for the support!
@@DygmaLab And you have to be a Singapore company, yes?
Yes, great video. I am beginning my journey to transition and it has definitely sold me on the Dygma! Thank you.
Thank you for your support! We hope your experience with your Dygma keyboard is awesome! 🙌
I would say the last part of the Ergonomic journey is hand wiring a custom made Ergo board like a Dactyl manuform. I personally can't wait to get my Defy though ;)
It could be, but as tech evolves, we hope we can create more and more steps and create unseen things. We don't know what future holds, but we're eager to find out 😊
We're working our a***s off to deliver the Defy in time!
3d printing the board to suit my hand size is a good way to go. Also cheap if you have a 3d printer
I just pre-ordered the Dygma Raise 2, shortly after watching this video and looking into your company.
Despite already owning a mechanical keyboard, a friend introduced me to ergonomic keyboards a few days ago and I have been doing research since. Every youtube channel seems to be talking about the same 3 brands, but I wasn't convinced by any of them. I had heard of Dygma but hadn't really looked into your products yet, but found this video to be so informative and well put together that I started binging all the content in your channel. I think what really caught my attention is how there seems to be a sense of community here as well as on Discord and Reddit, and your videos all have a good sense of humor. So after checking the product on your website and seeing it ticks all my boxes, it was a no-brainer.
I really liked the level of customization you offer when ordering as well! I can't wait to get my hands on the Raise 2, literally :D
Thank you so much and welcome to the club!! We try to make videos that are helpful and entertaining even for people that don't own our keyboards 🥰
The end of my keyboard ergonomic journey is the Dygma Defy with an integrated trackball. Unfortunately the latter is not available yet, but I'm more than happy with the Defy without trackball. Hopefully I will receive my new toy/tool next January ☺
We hope to add steps even further than the Defy in the future 😉
As for the trackball, we considered it for a while, but it took so much space from the thumb cluster and was detrimental for left handed users, so we decided against. Design always means compromise, and this time it did not go your way 😋
Thanks for the suggestion and let's hope we can deliver the Defy in no time!
@@DygmaLab I'm excited to see what Dygma has in store for us and am also hoping for a finger-operated trackball add-on module.
I imagine a Ploopy Nano which can be attached to left of the 'H' key (or to the right of 'G' for lefties) which will seamlessly interface with the existing hardware and software. For example activate mouse layer when trackball is manipulated and communicate through the same connection used by the keyboard.
What I’d really love is not a trackball, but that little red nubbin that old IBM laptops had. I wonder if maybe patents or lack of parts makes that impossible. Still an integrated trackball or pad would be great. Keymouse tried this, but their implementation seems like it had some issues.
@@mattherndon9317 In case you're interested, Jan Lunge integrated a trackpoint in a Dactyl Manuform, see th-cam.com/video/95etDQ0I-Ls/w-d-xo.html.
That will have to wait quite a while, tbh. We've set that project on stand by until we can find a proper solutions, the ones we tested were not cutting it in terms of comfort 😅
I love the humour in dygma films. I am tracking dygma progress for 4-5 years and I am thinking 2023 is finally the time to buy dygma defy. I dont like the price, but if something is good it needs to cost, and the features you have included in your product definitely are the 'wet dream' of professionals who spend long days in front of keyboard doing their job.
Nice! Let us know if there's something we could help you with to make that decision 💪
Another important feature is a software to quickly and easily change the configuration/layers of your keyboard. Installing, configuring and flashing QMK/VIA/VIAL is a non-trivial task, even for technical people.
We're aware of it and we try to make Bazecor asuser-friendly as possible. For the past months our goal has been making the software as friendly as possible instead of adding more features. Thanks for the input!
I feel this. I have never been able to customize my KB as it uses QMK and I just can't wrap my head around it. I'm scared to death i will do something wrong and then I have no more KB at all lol
I love that the TinTin poster is proudly on display in the background. Fond childhood memories of going to the library and reading the comics over and over.
Also can’t wait to get a Dygma once the feature set gets just right 👌
We have some more posters to display, if you have some more suggestions, we'd love to hear. I mean, we need a good reason to charge more posters to the company 😂😂
This is a hard video to make, well done! I’ve tried outlining something like this for a while but it’s hard to keep concise. Thanks for the link :)
It makes us really happy that you liked it. Coming from you, it's a real honor 😊
Finding a balance between being instructive and easy to watch was pretty tricky. We feel like we've tiptoed over essential topics, but we hope we got the main point across 😅
You talked about tenting but didn't mention negative tilt. From what I've read, it seems like this is one of the key ergonomic features to consider, especially for standing desk users. Would love to see a video about this.
You're right. Luckily, we cover reverse tilting in this two other videos th-cam.com/video/OSiu66ITd5Y/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/UAjCgaP_jNw/w-d-xo.html 😊
Imagine a hotswap, tented, ortholinear, staggered, and split keyboard akin to the Iris, Sofle V2, Kyria, etc. With the option to add rotary encoders on both the left and right halves, along with a pointing stick (nipple mouse) on the right half. The encoders could be placed in the thumb region, while the pointing stick could be positioned between the keys near the index finger. With this design, the encoders could be used as vertical/horizontal scroll wheels or volume/seeking control wheels, this and the pointing stick would significantly reduce the need to reach for a mouse. I'd love to retain the number and function rows as they can double as macro keys or media controls, and you can keep the novelty of smaller keyboard with easy to reach keys through programmable layers. Don't find an OLED screen to be necessary; however, compatibily with existing software and perhaps on-board storage to keep changes across devices would be great. While a palm rest would be a nice, it could be optional. My only concern is the potential cost, which personally might be hard to justify for a keyboard at the moment.
That's a very entincing idea, the problem is that adding those modules in the thumbs takes out space for thumbs, also, if you can't chage the position, users with large or small hands can find them not as comfortable as you might expect, Making them modular could be an option, that way users with different hand sizes would have less truble with them, stil, as you point, the price might be an issue.
We do not agree on the Functions row, but your idea is very interesting and well-thought, thanks a lot for the input!
As a data analyst the Raise will be my endgame keyboard a few months down the road. Just wish there was some place to get custom keycaps for it. But never the less a great ergonomic keyboard IMO, should be better(wrist, forearms, shoulders) than the Alice layout I'm using now.
Thanks for the kind words. As for the keycaps, you can use any set, the only keys you won't be able to replace on the Raise are the thumb ones, those are the only non-standard keys on the keyboard 😉
The iris has a better thumb cluster. Only 4 keys. I have it.
I am considering buying a Dygma raise, but this review from the Wirecutter left me a bit puzzled "We dismissed the Dygma Raise because it doesn't have a neutral slope. The Raise tilts upward, from back to front, 3 degrees, which goes against ergonomic principles." I'm not sure what they mean, and wonder if you have comments.
That statement is wrong in so many ways. The thing is that your wrists should have a neutral angle to avoid straining them (you don't want to extend them). There are many factors that account for that, such as how you sit or how you place your hands on the table. And also, the keyboard. Ideally, it should have a 0º. The Raise has a 3º, which is very low, but that's without considering the palmpads. With the palm pads, it's less than 0.5º. Plus, it's a very thin keyboard, which is way more important for ergonomics -specially for how most people sit to work- than having a 0º tilt angle.
Another comfort level is low profile switches paired with standard height caps. I love Mx low profile + MT3 profile caps which have some benefits of the well while keeping a hot swap PCB.
That's something we want to explore too: low-profile ergo keyboards :-)
Great explanation!
I returned to a MS Ergo keyboard after using a variety of normal and small keyboards; I was having too much wrist and elbow pain on the straight keyboards and had the old school MS Ergo one laying around. Once I got up to speed again I used a Goldtouch split model with the hinge at top center for several years. It is cheap, and an awesom step into the split world. I'd seen The ZSA models and moving to one of them was the obvious next step. At the time I didn't know that so many other split designs existed. I'm using the Ergodox EZ right now and am exploring what, if anything, is the next step. I hadn't heard of Dygma yet, I'm afraid to go check out the products because if I like one, I'm back to relearning to type.
I definitely had a rather steep learning curve on the Ergodox, and 12 months later I'm still altering angles and reassigning keys once in a while, there's just so many config options; layers, tap, double tap, tap and hold, macros, combos... I'm getting it right for me, at the moment at least. If I change jobs or even pick up new tasks I could envision another round of mapping a layout.
My only complaint is that as a not-so-great touch typist I like symbols, letters on my keys. I don't spend al day at the keyboard anymore and just fell back into looking down at times. I can't imagine trying to learn this layout when all blank or only alphas and 40 odd blanks.
I also like to swap keycaps at times for a new look. Once you get into the odder keyboard designs finding the proper size keycaps for some characters gets hard and you may realize that you just are never going to find that 1.5u keycap for ~ and `... or for Enter. You might find ergo sets (in my case) but as the layout is so variable often they are largely blank outside alphas. Or you end up buying a lot of sets and hoping the colors are very close or at least complimentary as you need to use a mix. This is further complicated with layers, I'm testing a one layer set up now and find I really don't miss the added layers. You may or may not be able to do that depending on what you do, whether you are going no mouse, or have a better memory than I do.
Hi, there!
What a journey you had! Thanks a lot for sharing the experience 🙌
Regarding the configuration of the Ergodox, I'd suggest you start getting used to the features one by one. Start with some easy layers. Let's say one with the arrows on ESDF and some symbols. Once you get used to that layer, you might need to look less at the keyboard, and you can move on to the next feature. At least, that is what worked for us 😅
As for getting used to touch-typing, there's nothing else to do but practice and, again, take small steps, first, the alphas, then get used to modifiers in the thumb cluster, and once you did both, you'll be lightning-fast!
Finally, the keycaps thing is a problem for columnar models like the Ergodox because they mount way more 1U, have no use for space bars, etc... Manufacturers are making more sets, but the options are still limited. You can use keycaps with a uniform profile, like XDA, buy a set for a 100% keyboard, and you'll have enough 1u keycaps for the board in one set. Other than that, you can try KBD fans or some other big vendor, from time to time they sell sets that might work.
Again, thanks for sharing, and hope you get back to your typing speed in no time 😉
@@DygmaLabF=
With my current layout I have only one key that is way out of it's row and sticks up noticeably. That's hyphen/underscore, which I only need frequently if coding which is rare.
I haven't found a need for layers yet. I have combos and multiple assignments. Layer switching requires at least 2 keypresses, which is same as most of my needs, macros and combos can handle >2 keystroke moves like switching workspaces. I know people who use layers heavily, I just don't have a need.
I have to say the Defy is a nice looking keyboard. The lack of alternate color keycaps to fit the thumbs is not ideal; I understand why but maybe if enough units sell , a small market for customs will emerge or someone will release a printable design for anyone who'd like to change it up. It would be cool if the maker put the files out, as a favor to the community. No conflict unless other keycaps are being planned in house.
Any plans to have popup demo booths in the US? I'd like to see/try before purchasing. Seattle, San Francisco, NYC, tech trade shows might be a way to get hands on your keyboards that are on the fence, like me. I'm near Seattle and would come to check it out. Or I'd happily test a demo unit for a month, review it (I'm not a youtuber but could try a review) and send back. Hint.. hint :)
Thx for the response to my late post, that's a nice move and cool to know someone there takes time to read comments.
Alice/Arisu layouts are a step in between common layouts and split ergonomic ones. Akko and Feker already have very affordable mechanical hotswap Alice boards, but with proprietary software; Keychron have just released two versions (regular, extended) for the V (plastic) series of VIA/QMK-compatible boards, and had the more expensive Q (aluminum) series for a while.
Keychron are also working on a split, so we'll likely see a very affordable split board from them in the near future.
The x-bows is a fantastic starter ergo keyboard. I've had mine for about 2 years and it's fantastic. I'm planning on upgrading now, but it was probably the best $100 I've spent
Nice, it does look like a good design and a good price to it, great place to start. The main problem is that you're stuck with thhat width between the "halves" but it is indeed a great start anyways!
It's also more columnar/ortho than staggered 💪
The Defy is the next I will get. It has all the things I want to try. Will try to get it when it comes out. The plan is for the streaming/editing/main PC, but I'll try it for gaming as well to see how it is.
You should be fine for all the tasks. Gaming-wise might require some adaptation, but some of us are old enough to remeber playing Doom with the arrows, which is very similar to using a columnar keyboard for gaming 😅
@@DygmaLab Being a '78 model, I do remember those days 👴😋
It will be interesting to see how it goes. Been wanting a split keyboard for years now.
Then you should be absolutely fine 😉
The most important thing is getting used to the thumb keys and the new arms positon, but once you get used to, there's no getting back.
I think the confidence you show by holding off mentioning your board for so long has sold me on a Defy.
The idea of the video was to show that evolution, and the models on each of the steps 🥰
We're happy to have you with us now!
Set playback speed to 1.25x. Thank me later 🫰
We watch all videos like that 😅
Thank you, perfect speed for this video.
I really needed this video. But still can't decide if I want to go for the Raise or Defy. Kinda just want to get the Defy but I am worried that I'll have trouble adjusting. And I don't want to spend even more money on another keyboard to ease that transition. Please keep posting videos!
It depends on your needs and current skillset. For instance, coming from regular keyboards, the transition to the Raise feels almost effortless. Probably, the biggest thing you have to consider is this: with the Raise you can use it as an standard keyboard, with the Defy, you MUST give a lot of use to the thumbkeys, that's probably the thing you have to keep in mind.
I'm not a great typist but changing to a columnar KB wasn't too bad. About a week to adjust and it actually improved my typing. Just thought I would throw that out there even though I don't have a Dygma as the layout wasn't available 2 years ago but the one I have is not split so I kind of regret that. Still the columnar layout did help a lot regarding pain in my hands if not my shoulders lol
Informative and fun! Thank you! Might get myself a Dygma
Go for it! 🥰🥰🥰
Windows and macOS lets you use multiple keyboards, so for the longest time I just used one side of my laptop keyboard for one hand and a separate keyboard for the other hand. I think I'm finally ready to buy a dedicated split keyboard if they can be as far apart as I want.
It would be much better to have a dedicated split keyboard, one half for each hand ❤️
Feel free to reach out if you have questions about our products.
Depends what you do. Do you write a lot, split. Do you write less then use mouse? 60% for me over split. With split, my mouse always ends up in wierd place.
The advantage of the split is more with the posture that it is with the mouse. In time, almost everybody uses the mouse in the middle because there's plenty of room there, but at first, finding the right place for the mouse is challenging
This is the best video on ergonomic keyboards on the internet... PERIOD.
Thank you! We work hard to have great content that's also fun to watch ❤️
Your thoughts on the glove80?
Im in the Game for a new keyboard and found you guys as well as the Reddit subs that help me join ergonomics with mechanics and customization.
Never used a concave keyboard and the most ergonomic one I’ve had so far is the cheap one by Microsoft which held up well for years at work and already drove coworkers crazy when they had to use my computer. My dasKeyboard ultimate without characters enhanced their frustration so rarely anybody sits in my place.
I want to make my workspace absolutely unusable to others and for that - and happy hands 🙌🏻 - I got the UHK, Dygma and the Glove on my list. 😂
(This narrative took an unexpected turn along the way)
We're usually not fond of key wells because it makes the keyboard taller, and the switches are not hot-swappable. But if you have a standing desk and don't mind staying with the same switches, the key well is more ergonomic than traditional keyboards.
Nobody has actually made a video on which one of these keyboards are good buying options - crazy! Thanks
No problem! We just want to help everyone considering ergo keyboards 🥰
Big props on mentioning Ben Vallack's end game. Although I think the order of the steps are up for debate, this is a stellar all around jumping off point, one which is great to point ergo newbies to.
Thanks 🤗
We completely agree, the steps and the end of the journey are up for debate. In fact, they will probably be dated in a few years. And that's a good thing, because it means keyboards are moving forward, which is the goal 😉
I actually use my thumbs to type letters, spacebar and enter, and have layers set up on what would be the qwerty keys.
Nice, that's super different! Do you use that on a Raise? We would love to see how you've configured it 🧐
@@DygmaLab admittedly I'm not currently using a dygma board, so I'm not sure if my exact setup is possible in your software, but I use the Ergobox-EZ 🙃. I switch layers by holding down the respective key and return on release. Q for mouse; W for arrow-keys and pos1, end etc; E for numblock, R for special characters and Y for function keys. Then I have a thumb key for additional special characters. Almost all changes are on the right hand side. I also use a modified version of colemak-dh as the key-layout, but that's not necessary at all, of course. In my opinion the perfect layout would be just 36 keys plus a decent thumb-cluster with 3-5 keys. Love your vids btw. Keep spreading the love for the objectively best keyboard layout, whichever flavour. 🧡
that new keyboard you made looks really good tbh... i might buy one to try it out... respect for continuing down the path of true ergonomics 😏
Thanks for your trust! We will keep walking the path, love exploring, just needed some funds to do so 😂😂
I wonder what can you say about "ergo" and still use the illogical QWERTY? That is the first thing when I think about "ergo", you can go "ergo" and help yourself against some health problems (as RSI) by changing your layout even on your cheap plastic noname keyboard for under 5$.
And the next necessary things come: your desk, your chair, how high are these? The most important your sitting (or standing) posture makes your "ergo". Then the last ornament stuffs come: keycap, switches, material of your case, how bling is your RGB etc... these luxuries would please your eyes but have nothing to do with "ergo".
Hello!
We use QWERTY because is more friendly for the users, but we encourage everyone to adapt the keyboard to Colemak, Halmak, or any other more balanced layout. The keyboard's software makes it very easy! You can also go with the plastic keyboard and change the layout, whatever helps you to improve.
As for the other elements of the setup, well, we intend to rework them in the future, but we have to go little by little 🙂
I've started with microsoft ergonomic, and currently on dactyl manuform 5x6.
That's a great progression, congratulations!
The manuform is a very advanced model, you've gone all the way through 😊
Those thumbkeys reminds me of the MMORPG mouse with 12 buttons on the side of the gaming mouse. If programmable it just might elevate my gaming. Too bad can't find one that's somewhat affordable. Actually all of these extra features comes with a heafty price tag or just simply not available
Our keyboards (the Dygma Defy and Dygma Raise) are fully programmable, so those thumbkeys con become really handy when gaming or working.
@@DygmaLab Sounds good! Going thru this Ergonomic Journey myself and I'm currently comfortable with the split and tenting with the Kinesis; so much that I can't go back. Now I feel like I'm ready for the next stages it's only been half a month. I even observed that my fingers likes to travel in columns already, so columnar might be an easy one for me to get used to.
Although, I'm still not back at my 80ish wpm, but I think I've made my fingers pliable and ready a new setup, or maybe it's just me being lazy and want to get used to the new better think instead of wasting my muscle memory. So yeah, thinking about getting your Defy keyboard as my final destination for the thumbkeys and columnar. Also I the way that your keyboards are built, if it's tented up so much, maybe there will be less crumbs and hair getting stuck in between the keys.
Too bad it will take a few weeks to get to me, guess can only do is to wait and suffer the cries from my finger calling for the keys be straight already
my keyboard journey are started on some cheap 65%, then i tried to use smaller keyboard (feel more challenging) and i fell in love with them,but i feel a pain in my shoulder after using it because my hands are cramped in a small form factor. then i tried corne keyboard, the DIY split programmable keyboard with 42 keys, it feels great, and cheap, i got it only 100$ and it got a tenting, although smaller one, but its a great keyboard after all.
What a story!
The Corne is great, and is a very advanced keyboard, not only because of the 42 keys, but because has to be soldered. However, if you like that, it's a feature, not a bug 😊
Also, getting used to 42 keys requires training, but certainly pays off, congratulations!
If you want to add more angle to the tenting, here are some DIY tenting solutions from our community, hope it helps!
dygma.notion.site/Dygma-Wiki-6e8905e1f928496a8736f7dc29e432bb
What about a number pad for accounting? I have ulnar nerve damage and need an ergonomic keyboard.
With a columnar keyboard like the Defy you can create a number pad layer, and that way you don't need to move your hand all the way to a number pad 😊
I am a bit worried how I will adjust to the columnar layout once my defy arrives but hey gotta get out of that comfort zone lol.
Another great Video by the way!
It takes some time but you'll be able to overcome it. If you've been using a 100% layout keyboard, you're already using the numpad, the navigation cluster and the arrows on a columnar disposition 😉
This has me rather worried that I've jumped too much into the deep end, as I'm just going from a standard mechanical keyboard to the defy. I've never experienced split, tented, or columnar before in any sense. Is there anything I can do in the meantime to soften this transition?
I don't think it is as huge of a problem as the video makes it seem. Jumping from row staggered layout to column staggered layout is not that big in my experience. The biggest challenge is learning new places for modifiers like ctrl etc. Non-split to split jump is also not that bad, it will highlight stuff like pressing b with your right hand or y with your left but if you have a decent touch typing form you will be fine. If your typing style is more of a "hunt and peck" type the learning curve will be harsh because that will not work at all on a split keeb. And finally tenting is just something you can ignore if it makes you feel uncomfortable or if it hinders your typing.
To get the basics down I'd say it takes something from a few days to a few weeks of time. A few weeks might be a bit problematic if you use the keeb to work or study daily but my advice would be to do work/study on a regular keyboard for a few days while learning to use the split keeb on your free time, then as soon as possible just start doing everything on the split keeb to make the transition faster.
The biggest learning curve is how to customize layers and how to utilize programmability. For me that took over a year and I definitely could try, experiment and learn more.
And to actually answer your question..
Learn touch typing if you haven't learned it yet, and if you have then find out if you have some of those bad habits of pressing a key with a wrong hand. My experience that it's mostly y and b. Also be mindful of "cheats" in touch typing. For example E and D are supposed to be pressed with your left hand middle finger but it is pretty common (and faster) to type the ending '-ed' so that you press E with your ring finger and D with your middle finger. These are usually considered fine but doing some of these on a columnar keeb can feel uncomfortable. This '-ed' example is actually one of those uncomfortable ones.
I hope this helps!
@@armeli thank very much, appreciate the advice and response.
I'm a developer so behind a keyboard most hours of the day... I'm certainly not in the hunt and peck category but I've been trying to do some touch type practice in the mornings still and getting there, shockingly slow at first heh... but as soon as I tried to touch type properly during work I found myself reverting to my old typing style (which has admittedly still increased since my practice even if its not perfect typing form.)
Sounds like I should ignore all the layers etc until it feels comfortable and accept that there will be an inevitable slow down transition phase. Thanks again
The best thing to do is adapt to the changes one by one. First, get used to the split, start by keeping the halves close and separate them little by little, the adjustment to the columnar layout should come naturally. Then move to customizing the thumb keys and play with the layers. Finally, adjust the tenting and find the perfect angle for your. That should not only soften the blow, but will also make it an amazing journey 😊
You've checked all the boxes, we tip our hats to you, Sir 🤗
This is an amazing guide. Thank you soo much ❤
Thank you for watching 😊🫶
Absolutely love how you're fair about your competition. How do you feel about Zack Fridman's modular keyboard project? It's not available yet (probably won't be for a long time) by it looks absolutely wowzers.
We've seen the video on the Mirage MK3, and it looks really nice. The customization possibilities are endless. All in all, any split model that cares about ergonomics and enccourages the uyse of the thumbs, is a win in our minds!
I want to take the leap to the full split. I really do. I just can't imagine life without the num pad. I live in Excel. How do those keyboards deal with numbers? I ain't going across the top and there's no num pad, so what's going on?
You use layers. Press or hold a key and you can have a number pad where K is 5, L is 6, U is 7...
@DygmaLab I see. I guess that's why the keys on those boards would have to be in columns. Otherwise the numbers would be misaligned.
@thefirespectrum yes it makes more sense on ortholinear and columnar keyboards 😊
Like it!you created professional , Dygma~
Thank you very much, we do our best, then it's up to the users to say if it's good enough 😅
love this run down, great video!!
Glad you enjoyed!
wonder how much a company could get out of setting up testing spots in public places where people can try out all the stages because I really would buy a small fee to play around
We want to start going to technology fairs to show the keyboard "in real life". And maybe retailers once we're big enough 😊
Or... you can plan a trip to Valencia (Spain)
your single highhandedly up scaling the Spain population @@DygmaLab
I'm just going the 3d print route. That way I can adjust the layout and size to my liking. Its also very cheap. Already have the skill set needed.
Good for you! No matter what you go for, your hands will help you. And if you need some advice or just a community to help you, our Dygmates are also adept at printing 😉
I find the most important aspect of the Dygma keyboards to be Dominique.
Oh, that's a basic aspect. It gives us an unfair advantage over other brands 😎
Just curious, why would you want to attach the two halves of a split keyboard when the video opened with the perils of those poor ergonomics?
Well, some people would prefer a split keyboard that can be used as a normal one, just for the sake of getting used to the split design.
The idea is that you can start using it as a normal keyboard and with time grow into a more split position where each hand is responsible for certain keys.
There are some scenarios where you might want to use it together, like for gaming. Although we highly recommend using just one half for that.
It helps with the transition ❤️
Really good guide, but you forgot about the importance of blank key caps to dissuade against looking down.
You're right, there are many other features that can be present on all the models but we didn't talk about it, blank keycaps, keycaps profile, different switches and so on.
We have other videos about those topics in our channel, like this one here: th-cam.com/video/14bQeqhlTNM/w-d-xo.html
Great overview!
My compliments for daring to mention the competitors.
The last level, key wells, indeed cuts both ways. Key wells feel great, really great! But they come at a price not to be hot swappable. For me (I prefer cherry MX browns anyways), it is worth the price, but that's for every one to decide by himself.
By the way, they actually are not the final level. There still is Data Hand, and - more contemporary - Charachorder.
Hi Maximillian!
Thanks for the complments, although, we don't see other ergo manufacturers as "competition". The way we see it, there's still a vast majority of users with regular keyboards, the goal is move them to ergonomic models, then, we can start competing. For now, we're all in the same boat, of sorts😂
As for the final level. Honestly, we hope this video a few years. That means we have made advancements and improvements to establish even more levels on top of the current ones. Resulting in more comfortable keyboards for everyone 😊
You can definitely have a hot-swappable split keyboard with key wells! Dactyl manuforms (and other similar 3D printed chassis types) are now able to support hot swap inserts with the right modifications. If you can't 3D print and wire it all up, there are places that will assemble it all for you.
Interested about your opinion on the Dactyl Manuform.
Would be similar to what we explain about the Kinesis, they help, but they are bulkier, less comfortable to transport and don't have the hot-swappable feature. But in the end it's a matter of what you prefer. If you move away from conventional keyboards, it's a win for us, no matter which model you pick.
why does the Dygma Raise not have bluetooth connectivity? you are advertising it as a middle step keyboard for people who might eventually choose the Dygma Defy columnar keyboard but you are limiting it's connectivity. Please add multi-device bluetooth connectivity.
The Dygma Raise was designed in 2017 when split wireless keyboards were fairly exceptional. In fact, it's not been until last year that the first commercial Bluetooth split keyboards have been available. We plan to develop a Raise V2 with the same wireless capabilities and other surprise features 😊
The best video! Thank you very much! ❤
Glad you liked it!
What is different about the thumb key switches? If I’m swapping in a custom set of switches, do I need to order something specific for those keys?
The lower row of thumbkeys are low-profile Kailh Choc v1. So you need 4 on the Raise and 8 on the Defy 😊
perfect, thank you!
I'm amazed that such things even exists. I was just looking for suggestions of a better keyboard that would reduce a bit of pain and entered the rabbit hole
Welcome! Grab a seat and a snack!
While I found this video a good summary of many of the perks of ergonomic keyboards, the bias toward dygma was uncomfortable for me. The hype and special effects reserved for your own board with the mere shrug at concave key wells and no mention of the glove80 kinda slayed me. I’m looking for a video to explain ergonomic keyboards to my physical therapist and for those reasons it can’t be this one
I'm sorry you didn't like our video. We tried to do an honest review without sticking out our keyboard above the others, other than in an honest way 🥲
Used Dygma Raise for the last year. I will never go back to a normal keyboard. The only time I will buy another one is when my existing one breaks or when the Raise goes wireless.
You're on the record 😉
No take backs when we upgrade the Raise 😂😂
@@DygmaLab
I’m waiting to push the purchase button like a tiger in the tall grass, trust me!
This video was AMAZING! 👏 👏 👏
Thank you! We're super glad you liked it! ❤️
Can you add a numerical key pad to this board? If so, do you recommend one?
You definitely can, but you would have to use an external one. There are many available and you can even use macro boards.
If you're getting a Dygma board, you can also configure the numpad to a 2nd layer that is easily accessible 😉
I wish there was a version of the defy that was cheaper, membrane keyboard. It's just costing so much makes it really hard to take the chance on it.
Our mid-term goal is to make more affordable versions of our keyboards 😊
I got the kinesis freestyle a few months ago when I started developing arthritic pain in my wrists. Overall, I like the keyboard and I think it accomplishes what it’s meant to do. However, I personally cannot adjust to the “tall“ keys after using slim profile keyboards for over a decade. I just cannot get used to it. It’s like my fingers are getting stuck between the keys! yes, it doesn’t have 100% of the keys (I miss my number pad!), But it has some handy keys instead, such as copy cut and paste keys, to prevent using modifier keys.
Hello, and thanks for sharing your experience!
Glad to hear your hands are imrpoving. As for the problems with the keycaps, you can try to change the keycaps, maybe using a uniform profile like XDA, or a shorter profile like the Cherry ones. Hope it helps!
So, I'm looking for an ergonomic keyboard since basically all my work involves using my PC, but I want something with a numpad because I do 3D work and many of the shortcuts I use rely on the numpad. I do want a hot swappable keyboard too though, and I'm hoping you guys have suggestions for something that fits all those bills?
Most ergonomic keyboards use layers to access the number pad (kind of like FN keys, but you can "lock" them). But other people get a separated number pad.
im so happy more people are moving towards ergo keyboards. the normal design of a rectangle just isn't good
We're happy too 🥰
If you don't know where to start.. get Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard (40$ original), then learn touch typing -> dygma defy or kinesis advantage 360
Respect to DygmaLab for mentioning your main (and only) competitor kinesis advantage 360
And the moonlander! I’d say that’s the most direct competitor, since it’s not a concave keyboard
Though they are models with similar features, we don't really see them as competition.
The real competition is convincing people that ergo models are the way to go. Once most users move to ergonomic keyboards we'll start the competition, but for now, us, ZSA, Keyboardio, Kinesis, and all other brands are on the same boat: defeat the old keyboards.
That's a good suggestion. Not only from a user experience but also money is important. We always give the same advice, if spending X amount of money is a problem; go for a more affordable model. In time, you'll be able to move on to the next steps of the journey, but to do so, you have to feel comfortable with all the aspects of the purchase.
Is there an ergonomic keyboard which has big enter key and a range of non-English layouts (for EU market)?
That would be the Dygma Raise :-)
@@DygmaLab I'd like to press Enter with my little finger and not my thumb.
You can also do that! As it is fully programmable you can have your Enter wherever you want 😜
Awesome video, I hope this company goes far!
Thank you, Edward, we really hope to stay around and release many other projects in the future ❤️
Best in class video on the matter!
And your keyboard if the best too!
Thank you so much! We are glad you enjoyed it 😊
Great video, what about the corne keyboard?
I think we mention the Iris and the Kyria, but the Corne is a good alternative too if you're looking for keyboards with a smaller footprint and less keys. We tried to focus on the commercially available, as those are usually more difficult to find (and build) for the average user.
I love your videos D. 😉😉
They are very enjoyable to watch and I like very much the details.
I love the dygma-defy and the dygma-raise-2.
I will try them one of this days. I am trying to move out of traditional keyboards 😊😊
Also, with all respect, i want to tell that you are very beautiful. 😍😍😍😍
Please let me know if you come to Portugal .
Thx
Thanks!
Awesome video! Clear explanations and I learned a lot; I didn't know about tenting for keyboards. I need that so much and it will fit perfectly with my vertical mouse :)
Thanks a lot 😊
It's great to hear that more and more people are finding about these models.
One thing: using a keyboard with tenting sets the hands on a different position; a different hand separation, could require adjusting the chair and definitely a higher hand positoin. Therefore it might feel weird for the first days, don't worry, is completely normal 😉
Minor correction: The Microsoft sculpt has scissor switches, not membrane.
You're right! Thank you for the correction 🙇
Do you have a recommendation for a split & tenting keyboard ideal for someone who uses the 10-key A LOT? Only thought I have is programming one in but am interested in other options.
If you want completely split, then you need to go to a columnar keyboard like the Defy and the Moonlander and have a layer with the 10-key. Instead of moving your hand, you change the layer and the 10 key is under your fingers. With columnar it's very intuitive.
If you still want staggered and not to program anything, then check the Logitech Ergo K860. Fixed split, tenting and it's a full-size keyboard with your 10-key and all.
I am having surgery. I type for a living. I will be in a sling for 6 weeks. I want a split keyboard, so that I can have the right keyboard, near my right hand, without extending my arm. Which keyboard do you recommend.
Hi! If you have never used a columnar or an ortho keyboard I would recommend the Dygma Raise 2 with tenting kit, so you can start typing with your keyboard elevated or with negative tilt, which will really help you while writing. If you have used a columnar or an ortho keyboard before, then I recommend the Dygma Defy, it also has tenting and negative tilt so you can try it too. Both are programmable so it can help you avoid unnecessary wrist movements 💪
@@DygmaLab thank you
Hi, can you make a keyboard like the Kinesis Advantage 360 Pro, but with the Dygma cool features?
I guess what you'd want is a concave keywell. We'll explored it, but it's almost impossible to make that with hot-swappable sockets, and we looove to try different switches. But we'll keep trying 😊
This is interesting. Didn't expect all your recommendations to be split keyboards. Has the ergonomic-ness of these type of keyboards been verified, if you don't mind me asking. Think I will try one. On another note do these keyboards also take care of the whole wrist support issue. What are your views on that. Tia.
I would recommend reading "The Split Keyboard: An Ergonomics Success Story". The research it's based on is old, but the same principles apply today.
@@DygmaLab Will do thanks.
Hi, looked it up. Would have bought the keyboard you guys are selling, unfortunately it’s kind of outside my budget. Plus, I don’t think it’s available in India anyway. Can you recommend something budget-friendly that’s available more widely. Thanks in advance!
Hi again! It is available in India, we sell worldwide 🗺️
@@DygmaLab Oh good, will look it up thanks.
I never use the pinky to access the special keys, nor the backspace.
Better for you 🙂
Although you might be tilting the wrist to reach fro those keys, whis is not ideal either. Review it because it might lead to wrist pain and discomfort.
The thing is that touch typing encourages usgin the pinikie for those keys, hence the assumption on th video 🙂
Awesome video.
I started my journey with mechanical keyboards from WASD, then went for a split one with UHK.
Finally landed on the Moonlander and I love it. But I keep second-guessing myself... do I need the Defy?? Wireless, built-in tenting, more thumb keys, fewer keys because of that...
That's completely up to you. If you're at the Moonlander stage, you're already using healthy model, so you're not in a hurry to upgrade it.
We'd love to have you as a Dygmate, but you might be at the stage where you can explore possibilities and see what model suits you better
I wish the moonlander was lighter it weights 750g+ while the mistel 660 weights less than 500 😓
Super true, some keyboards end up being too heavy 🥲
I just weight and the mistel660 actually weights 710g with the cable
Thank you so much for this video 🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗
Our pleasure!!! 🥰🥰🥰
how many Layers does this keyboard support? i need at least 8 full Layers.
We showed many keyboards on the video 😅 The Raise supports up to 10 layers, the Defy will support even more.
I'm brazilian and these keyboards are really expensive here :/
I want to buy one, but I cannot buy a wrong keyboard
But I want a split keyboard ortholinear. I'm thinking in moonlander or dygma defy
The Moonlander and Defy are very similar in form factor. Of course, we would recommend the Defy, because we make it, but I think feature by feature, the Defy is superior in almost anything. Well, their keycaps are PBT, and ours are ABS. And their software allows for some advanced options that we still have in Beta, but our UI is mores intuitive and much faster 😊
It's honestly hilarious how bad the default QWERTY keyboard is! I'm planning on getting an ergonomic keyboard when I can get the money together (ZSA Moonlander) and I don't think I'll be going back!
You're more than right! There are so many good options that staying in normal QWERTY non-split creating problems on your body is a bad move.
Check out the Dygma Defy if you haven't 😉
Thank you for the great explanation on this type of keyboards. Despite having your own company, you really succeed in explaining obljectively the different sets which leads to a split columner keyboard layout. I just learned today about those keyboards, and am eager to get one! If I go for Dygma, I would probably go directly to the Ryse, so as not to have to upgrande from a regular to a columnar layout later. It's good that you give the option of wireless or not however.
Prices of these types of keyboard, whatever the brand, are however very high. I wonder what justifies it. Is it a current fad? It would be great to make those more accessible to the general public. I might get one personnally however.
I am still wondering a bit on the switches type. Would would be closest to the Mac butterfly keyboard (which I have learned to like and am used to now) ?
Thank you Pierre!!!
If you're coming form a Mac butterfly keyboard we always recommend Kailh Silent Brown. It's tactile with a nice bump. But you'd still need to adapt, as mechanical keyboard switches have longer travel distances (the amount the key goes down when you press it).
Here's another video that can help th-cam.com/video/noUj7uUyIk4/w-d-xo.html
@@DygmaLab Thanks. that sounds nice ! When in September do you think the Defy will be ready for delivery in Europe, and up to when is the preorder period?
@PierreJohnsonOnline delivery will start in September for the whole world but it'll continue through to October. The pre-order period will finish the moment we're ready to ship the first keyboards, so it won't be there much more 😅
Do they come with Bluetooth option also
It depends on the keyboard. The Dygma Defy for example offers RF and Bluetooth as an option. And the Kinesis Advantage 360 pro and Glove80 have Bluetooth too (but not RF).
@@DygmaLab Thank you so much for all the information ❤🥰❣
omg I'm half way through this video and I'm in love... with the keyboard. but what is the lady's name? muy cliente! you can sense the passion and character, yet still classy and professional.
Her name's Dominique, she says it at the start of the video 😂
@@DygmaLab 🤔🧐 are we looking at same video? I played it again... I missed it.
But I did catch her name on another video 😉
Will you guys add a finance option to the Dygma keyboard? I haven't gotten an answer yet
Hi Jeremy,
We're working on it, for the time being, the only solution is use fractioned payment from Pay Pal, though this might not be ideal, is the best we can do at the moment, sorry!
great video, lot's of valuable information for beginners to quickly get on track. I was missing mainly two things if I was to provide some critics: 1. the "end" is not really the end. IMO dactyl manuform could be an even further improvement. Furthermore, 2. I generally miss the discussion about pointing devices in combination with ergonomic keyboards. Having a split ergonomic keyboard with a fancy layout is great, but we still have to switch between mouse/trackball/touchpad and keyboard thousand times a day. I have never tried, but somehow including a trackball or similar into one of the splits could be the next logical step. Nevertheless, great video with an awesome host! Please take my money! 😀
Cool, thank you for your comment! You're right, pointing device is something that needs to be taken in consideration for sure.
We have an upcoming video related to different mouse options, and it will definitely help.
We also plan to create a pointing device in the future to pair with the Dygma boards 🥰
@dygma please recreate ms sculpt ergo
Could be a great idea! :)
What keycaps (and what profile) will the defy support ?
The Defy mounts Cherry profile keycaps. As for which supports, it has standard switches, so it can mount and MX stem keycaps.
Nice video. I would probably have got one of your if I had seen them before i bought my Moonlander. Aside from the practicality, the cable on the moonlander spoils the aesthetics somewhat.
If I upgrade, I may check you guys out next time.
Thank you! We plan to stay here for a long time, so you will probably have a Dygma keyboard or even a different peripheral in the future 🥰
ok, i just saw that you have a new model with a columnar layout... props to getting onboard the columnar revolution #ergodoxgang 😎😏💪
We were aware of it since the beggining, but we decided to start on the staggered model, we thought it could be a bit risky as a first launch, but we've always been part of the gang 😎
Glad I found this channel
Thank you! We're glad you like it ❤️
Thanks for the video. Do you plan to sell the defy with cherry mx silent red as well?
We can chose kailh pink but not cherry mx pink :-/
That's a very interesting question. When we were deciding on the switches we would offer, we considered Cherry's silent models. But compared to Kailh's they make some more noise and feel mushier, so we went with Kailh models. However, you can always swap the switches if you prefer Cherry 😉
Went for the moonlander myself, though it would be nicer if wireless. Still, it's a great keyboard if you can spare the time to get used to it.
Cool, the Moonlander is a great keeb and will serve you for a long time, we're sure about that! 😋
I actually found the staggered->columnar switch to free the easiest part.
That's great! Everyone is different and some things seem easier for some people and more difficult for others, for example it took me about two weeks to get used to columnar
OMG, why is EVERYTHING a journey now? I can't wait for the band Journey to go on tour again. Then I can blog about my "Journey to see Journey journey."
And then somebody can make a review of your journey and called it ""Journey to see Journey journey" journey" ... I would watch it 😜
@@DygmaLabI'd watch it, too! 😄
That would be quite the journey!!