Canister Stoves in Winter
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ม.ค. 2017
- I try a couple of canister stoves in -12C conditions. One works and one doesn't.
The one that doesn't work contains a simple mixture of butane and propane.
The other contains a 'four seasons mix' of isobutane n-butane and propane. This stove functions very well even if I put it in contact with the cold ground.
The explanation I provide is a little simplistic but it covers the main effects.
Here are some other things at play...
Pressure inside the canister is also an issue. As the air temperature drops so does the pressure which impacts the burn. Also as the fuel is consumed more fuel vapourizes inside the canister. This vaporization causes cooling inside the canister which complicates matters more. This all gets more challenging at altitude.
A propane only canister would be great but at normal summer temperatures the pressure inside would be too extreme to contain with a lightweight camping canister. You would need a heavy steel canister like on your outdoor grill.
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Great video. Short. Concise. Covers information needed. Keep up the great work
Thanks!
Thx for the water plate trick !
No prob!
Thank you for making the video.
Greetings from Scotland😁, nice vid just the type of explanation video I was looking for after struggling with a cheaper blend I had refilled my MSR cannisters with!!
Thanks for sharing this information with us
My pleasure
Very nice video, clear and precise, right to the point
Thanks, that's what I try and go for.
Well put together and informative video. Cheers mate 👍
No problem 👍
Nice video, good info. Stay warm!
Thanks Nick!
Good video! I did not know that info (me not being a canister stove user). I appreciate the effort that went into the illustrations and animations.
Thanks - much appreciated. It was fun to figure out how to do this without fancy video software. But - I think I need to upgrade.
Thanks friend for the information. I was wondering why i was getting poor performance from my fuel. The boiling point explains it all. Good vid.
Thanks, Glad it was of use!
Good demonstration, thanks.
Thanks Quinn!
Good video! I like your boil tests under different conditions. I bought the new GSI Pinnacle 4 season stove and Ive found that it works great in the winter when the tank is inverted, however I think that it uses more fuel in the inverted position as opposed to siting upright. I will have to do a test similar to yours to prove that though. Keep up the great work! :)
Thanks True North! Much appreciated!
very nice, learn something new everyday. good job
Thanks Perry!
Thanks kevin
Welcome.
Well I'll be..🤔
Good stuff as always, thank you for explaining topics so that this layman can understand. Keep up the good works!
Thanks Wulf Pack. Much appreciated!
Great technique. I remember keeping the canisters in the bottom of my sleeping bag.
You just need to keep a bottle of water in our bag ;-) Thanks.
Very good video. Very good informational. In the past, I did not know why the performance of the canister still was bad in the cold weather now, now I know. Thank you for sharing this video. It is a big contribution to backpackers knowledge. God bless you.
Thanks Taino, Yes, I still get surprised when I try to fire up a canister at -13C and it sputters then stops. Do as I say not as I do :) :)
MSR is a good one as well great test and video! Great tip!
Absolutly, thanks.
Quality work, thanks.
Thanks, much appreciated!
Really good video
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks man, that was very helpful.
Thanks Thomas, glad it was of use to you.
Nice explanation. I use the water trick to get the stove to work quicker/ more efficiently too.
Thanks Don, yes the winter blend should work better too.
Perfect.
Thanks.
Great vid, thanks for the info Kevin!
Thanks AdventureMan! I hope it helps.
Thanks AdventureMan! I hope it helps.
I think it does! I think that stove will run either one! :)
Brilliant
Thanks!
Good video.
Thanks!
شكرا
Tnxs.
thanks. I'll check out a winter blend.
Thanks and good luck!
Thanks for the tip about using water with the propane one. I'm pretty sure all my canisters are the 4 season mix......Take care, Bluefin.
Thanks!
We always use IsoBut in the winter and even in the mountains at elevation, it just burns cleaner and without issue unlike straight propane.
Nice lid!
Go JETS Go!
Thanks! The 'Jets' are my kids team. Gotta like the NHL team too!
i am planning on buying propane Coleman Bottle Top Propane Stove, with propane cannisters. whats the main issue with these for winter camping ?
@@shahzaibsansi7848 Propane loses much of it's ability to vaporize thus also pressurize in cold temperatures.
I use straight Isobutane by MSR but it truly is all the same and have never had any issues in winter, but you can also buy winter specific Isobutane also by MSR too.
@@batwithglasses i have seen people keep 20lb propane cylinders for bbq grills outside for the entire winter and it still works, is the smaller 1 lb not effective in winter just cuz of its size?
@@shahzaibsansi7848
All propane cylinders lose pressure in the cold, smaller ones faster due to capacity.
Propane turns to liquid at -42c.
This is good to know, I am backpacking quite a bit in winter and worried on making food if I can't get my stove to light.
It is a quick little trick that can get things going again. As long as you have some water. Or put the canister in your sleeping bag.
Nice Work! And now there's another Coleman product to avoid. lol.
LOL, Coleman isn't that bad :)
squirrel or weasel playing in the background.funny one.
Two squirrels. That is why I used that take.
GSI has one of the best cartridges on the market for high altitude snd cold! 70% isobutane, 20% propane and 5% butane.
One needs an inverter system for canisters in serious cold.
For serious cold & altitudes one should skip canisters and go with a liquid white fuel stove!
I think you said it very well!
@@KevinOutdoorsThanks
You hit the nail on the head about the Coleman…it’s just a simple mix.
Calling the Coleman 70/30 “performance blended fuel” is misleading @ best!
60 dollars for a white gas stove. It a lot safer when it's cold and use the canisters in the summer. 30 ounces of white gas can save your life in the winter. You can unthaw your hands or feet dry boots and boil water. If all I had was a canister stove I wouldn't go in the winter. Too dangerous and white gas is cheaper too
Nice video just the same
Thanks, yes just showing how it can be done. I only think it is dangerous if you rig up a heater. I have seen folks use a copper band to get hot in the flame and they tape it to the side of the canister. Not the way to go. I too prefer white gas in the winter and actually where I live winter usually means you should be building a proper fire. Thanks!
Go Jets !!
Yes, Go Jets!
In the cold I alway place the tank in a plastic tray. I warm up the canister in my jacket. Put one inch of water In a pot. Warm up that water for a few second on the stove. Then pourt it over the canister and into the plastic tray. Then boil water and as needed put more in the cup. No problems. Just need to keep the canister warm. Below 11F, probably better to go back to a white gas stove.
Suggest you try the test again with a cannister containing iso-butane and propane. Example brands are Jetboil and MSR Isopro. I expect this will work better than the three gas mix, which might end up vapourizing the iso-butane and propane, and leaving the N-butane in the cannister. I've never seen a cannister in my country with the two gas N-butane / propane mix.
I suspect they will function similarly but it might be worth a try. I checked out both manufacturers. MSR Isopro does contain n-butane but they specify
You can also put a cheap handwarmer under the fuel canister and warm the fuel prior to lighting.
That would work. Anything that warms the canister.
I tried the hand warmer and the canister inside of it on cozy I made for the canister and did not work. I hope it is, the warmers work as long as you keep it in your hands within the body warmth. I don’t know why is this. God bless you.
I live in Fairbanks, Alaska. I found that at -20 to -40 degrees the stove lights, but with the 4-seasons canister does not boil water as well as my MSR whisperlite using white gas.
That makes sense as white gas is far superior in cold temperatures. Below -20C even the winter mix will slowly stop to function.
I have a couple of things to say.
I assume that even if you preheat the canister with some water then only isobutane will burn and butane and propane stay in a liquid state and won't burn at all (unless the canister heats up a bit from the burning fire).
Second. Inverted canister stove with the preheat tube is good to burn all the gas that's in the canister (including propane and butane) which will not probably burn if you use a regular standing upright position.
What do you think?
Thanks for the explanation. Have you posted about liquid or multi-fuel stoves in winter?
I haven't. Something I might try. Thanks for the suggestion.
@@KevinOutdoors liquid/multi-fuel stoves in winter and/or high altitude please, if you can ;) Do you happen to climb big walls?
Cold weather I have, mountains I don't :)@@franka7691
Some hand warmers stuck to the outside might work.
They absolutely would. Anything to raise the temp just a little.
Bio Ethanol, Meths or alchohol in freezing conditions, gas for three seasons is my rule of thumb, never lets me down.
Good practice.
That water bath is a great trick, where do you find liquid water at -20C?
Since this was just a demo I got it from my house. When I am winter camping I am collecting water from a hole in the ice and that water is just above freezing. Also I will boil water and put it in secure bottles in my sleeping bag overnight. By morning those bottles are still well above freezing. When winter camping I am always managing my water to ensure I have at least some available at all times.
@@KevinOutdoors Takes a long time to melt snow, plenty time for that cold water to freeze. If this works for longer than 5 mins it has to be because some heat from the stove is being reflected down to the water bath to keep it from freezing. Still a neat trick though, thanks.
@@andyr4611 I know in some situations, like arctic expeditions, people have to melt snow but that is pretty rare for me. Melting snow takes a long time and consumes a lot of fuel because snow is so bulky and you only get about 20% of the volume. Another trick is to put the fuel canister inside your jacket, it will warm up and light just fine. Once you have some warm water you can keep going all you want.
However, if two gasses are completely immiscible with each other, each one will behave independently of the other in a closed vessel. So why doesn't the Propane (-44 deg F boiling point) work best, even with the butane mixed in? Or am I not remembering my high school chemistry correctly?
I am not a chemistry professor but I believe the propane gets used up first. Sometimes these stoves will light and burn for a bit then go out.
better use a stove with inverted canister mode with a heater tube so it can burn liquid butane directly...
Yes I agree. Exactly what I reccomend in the video.
@@KevinOutdoors liquid does not ever burn directly. Nothing in liquid phase burns directly. . It has to be a vapor or gas. Inverted stoves flow liquid to the burner where it heats the liquid into a gaseous state which then burns with gaseous O2 to produce the flame. Great video. Thanks for posting
Hardcore winter canister top stove users may want to take a lesson from rock climbers and wrap a couple turns of 1/8" copper wire around their canister, with both free ends of the wire bent upwards, into the flame. Don't dump so much heat into the canister that you blow yurself up, kids.
That last part is the trick isn't it. I know it works but I wouldn't try it, it is a very steep learning curve :)
Awesome tip, thanks.
You had me until you put the stoves in the snow :S.
LOL, that just threw you off!
@@KevinOutdoors yeah haha. Canister stoving in the winter was a topic this morning so I tried to search how to get around the pressure issue.