I don't think that's true, though. The bulk of the fuel in the canister is liquid and the partial pressure doesn't change depending on how much is used. Assuming consistent temperature, the gas pressure is the same until very near the end when all liquid vaporized.
That's not a bad idea. It's about the same as she did in the video. After the trip, you can figure how much fuel (on average) for each boil by figuring the difference and dividing by the number of boils.
As a newbie, this video knocked it out of the park. And I was really surprised at the attention to detail on the variables in this. The team on this video really covered their bases.
This is really a sensational video.THANK YOU for calling out the caveats! You hit them all! This was indoors, no wind, unregulated stove. The only thing you didn’t mention was water temp! If you are using filtered water from a stream it is going to be COLD which will affect boil time. Great Video, thanks.
Well done. Right to the point, mentioned that there will be variables that impact “Real Life” and showed the math so users can draw their own conclusions. Appreciate that this was not a “Sales Pitch” (heck, even used an older burner!). Thank you. Subscribed
Suuuuuuper video!!! If we could only have every video be this worthwhile. For this we can thank REI and cross our fingers for others to step up to the bar that has been raised. Until then…thank you REI for putting a ton of time and effort into a vid that was educational and enjoyable!
Sure it's under ideal conditions, but the test gives a nice baseline. Thanks for the video. I prefer to carry esbit so I can take just the right amount of fuel and not have to carry around empty canisters, but this is a great starting point for thinking about how many canisters to carry for when I have to take the old MSR.
I have noticed more and more Americans using Metric nowadays. I really hope we do a full on conversion soon. It was supposed to happen in the 70s but we got lazy lol
There's no need to go to a full boil for most rehydration cooking. If you stop when you start getting a couple of bubbles on the bottom it will be plenty hot especially when you use a coozy. Depending on the food, I have the stove on less time, maybe 25-30% less. For hot chocolate I only heat till hot to the touch.
Great job....good info. Please look past the "could of" "should of" "would of" gang. Mileage always vary...we're adults. Thanks again nice job, good vid and awesome data.
Very useful! I was about to do this on my back porch so thanks for saving me the effort. One of these will do 6 liters or about 25 cups of water. I can boil water for oatmeal and coffee and one of these will last me 12 days or 6 days if I have a dinner. Many thanks.
Thanks to the G Works adapter, I always start any & all trips with a FULL canister of fuel. I don't have any partially empty canister laying around. When I return from a trip, I top of the canister until it is FULL.
Great video! The pot I use to boil water has a heat exchanger and it dramatically cut down on boil times. I always place the lid on the pot as well, which further cuts down on boil times.
So 27 min 30 sec to burn through 100 g of fuel with that setup. I'd be really interested to see a comparison of burn times and boil times for different burners and tanks. I'm also curious what position your valve was in, but assume it was fully open.
Huge difference between boiling cold water in winter and boiling warmer water in summer. Obviously wind and altitude also play a role. It's probably more reliable to keep track of how long you've used a particular container, since assuming that the stove is burning full on, the time per canister should be relatively reproducible. Once you know that you get X number of minutes of burner time from a canister, you can just time each boil on the stopwatch on your phone, and keep a phone note of time used for the canister.
Nicely presented; excellent information! My results show about 3 minutes per boil for 500 mL (at 8,200 feet elevation). Complications as noted here and in comments are starting temp of water and wind, and not noted but critical, elevation. So bottom line, for minimalist, ultralight, 5-7 day section at 10,000 to 11,000 elevation with ONE canister I will start with one 3-minute boil per day (dinner), use wind screen, warm icy creek water in pack or even perhaps with body heat, then splurge on two boils per day in final two or three days. Comments?
I like hot breakfast and suppers. So i plan on two boils a day... i carry a altoids mini emergency stove in my pack for lunch or a mid afternoon drink. Start to finish about 9 min with set up boil cool down and crushing out the ashes. I also use aluminium foil for windstop and couple loose rocks as back stop. And 250 ml of water to drench the ashes.
As so many have said: Excellent video! Probably the best take home message - do your own homework if you tend to be OCD and want to be prepared. The alternative is to risk over- or under-resourcing. Admittedly, you can probably live without a stove for an entire through hike, but.. ***shudder*** who would want to. Hot caffeine in the AM fuels human existence. Experiment in your backyard and have some fun. Again, many thanks!
Great video! Super helpful as I've been meaning to find the answer to this myself, thanks for doing the work for me! Same small collection of partially used containers in my gear...Sharpie tally marks on the bottom to keep track of # of boils will be my future plans. Thank you!
This is a decent baseline so long as you make sure to control for the temperature of the tap water; however, you'll want a much more conservative 'safety' margin than 1.25, preferably > 1.5 or even 2.0 if hiking in cold, windy conditions.
I did a camping trip last week and barely had any fuel in one canister, it lasted me the entire trip, two breakfasts (including water for coffee and oatmeal, plus bacon for the first morning) and two dinners (boiling water and cooking meat). I was very impressed with my stove I used and how little fuel it took to feed me for the three days I was gone. I even had major windy conditions both evenings. I had a snow peak canister. I still took an extra canister with me, in case I ran out of fuel (No fires and no BBQs where I was camping, stoves must have regulators on them).
Please don't forget that you can use your stove to start a warming fire. So pack extra lp always. It can save your life. Packing extra fuel weight is never a bad think. Thank You REI. Miranda Poops 😁
For all the people saying they use wood to boil water and don't use stoves, keep in mind that in some places it is illegal to have open fires. Also, during certain times of the year or after an extended period of time without rain it is also illegal. Thru-hikers use them for the first reason. Some places, like Harper's Ferry WV, you can't have open fires or stoves. That is because of a historical fire that occurred there I believe.
The starting temperature of the water was not included in the test which is an important factor as you are raising a given volume of water from a starting temperature to a boil. Mountain streams and lakes are cold!!
She said multiple times, "in ideal conditions." The implication was pretty clear that if the water is colder or if there's wind, it'll take longer to boil.
This is a great video! I was just thinking about investing into a portable gas stove, I had no idea what a regulated stove was (the new MSR Pocket Rocket actually has this feature). Thank you ❤
I agree, in most real world conditions, 10 boils of 500 ml of water per standard iso butane canister with an MSR Pocket Rocket us about right. And it also validates my inclination toward liquid fuel stoves for more than three days and if you like more than one hot meal a day. Light up the stove wars.....
After getting a free MSR Dragonfly, I think i've found my perfect stove for me. I'm usually cooking for more than just myself, and it just made carrying one medium size fuel bottle for 3 days vs the 3 ISO canisters I used to to have to carry with my Whisperlite Universal. (Yes I know the Whisperlite can use liquid fuel) But the dragonfly is the better stove in my opinion.
I get a kick out of the people commenting and talking about how its a waste to bring fuel. Many places you go there is no fuel. What do you burn above tree line or in the desert? Lichen? Rocks? Sand? I also got a kick out of people saying fuel is a waste of weight yet they say they bring guns/ammo/axes/etc... talk about a waste of weight.... And there are plenty of places you are not allowed to(or shouldn't) collect fuel, like high alpine environments or arid regions where the vegetation is scarce, or in more populated parks with heavy traffic.
I have a friend who doesn't bring a stove or fuel for trips 4 days or shorter. The majority of his calories is consumed in dry nuts. Cashews have the most calories per ounce out of all the nuts so he mostly lives on cashews during short backpacking trips.
It is a very good video. Very instructional. It took me a while to understand the technical aspect of backpacking but I’m doing better at it. Being blind makes it a little bit difficult but not impossible. What is your favorite field system for backpacking? Thank you so much for sharing this video. God bless you.
Nicely done, I was thinking to be safe, assume 10 boils of 16 oz of water for a 100g canister. I'm also going to assume 20 boils of 16 oz of water for a 220g canister, just to be safe. Thank you for the demo of this process!
I like to pack my 20 lb lp grill tank with a 1lb adapter hose, 1lb to butane stove adapter, and a jetboil. Did use a pocket rocket but the jetboil is way more efficient so the fuel lasts the whole weekend.
Very pleasant young lady with a well reasoned argument regarding the usage I'll get from my canister which is the same (absolutely identical) as hers. But mine says 110g net. on the side. I nit picking here, she answered my question, I'm going out to buy another canister...
Just keep in mind this experiment showcases boiling water I’m assuming starting at room temp. Typically water i collect is always colder. I’d take the number if boils and multiple it by .75 to be safe. So 12 boils becomes 8-10
Some countries have free drinkwater points. The average hiker map have these marked. If you don't have 1 on your map go to the local information points. In the netherlands it's called vvv. It saves you gas if you want to drink or use something cold.
Hello Katie, thank you for sharing this great information, very mathematical. Do you have a video which features an alcohol stove? You did an extremely fine job in presenting the information. Take care and be safe. 🤗
People should keep in mind that, although minimal, the amount of fuel lost between removing it from the burner and starting ignition can also play a factor in the amount of burn time and uses you will have...
Whoa. This passes peer review! I was just working on this the other day, my conclusion was 1 can per person for a 5 day trip, assuming two .5L boils/day, then throw in a partial can for margin. Simmering pasta is a big variable, especially at altitude.
With my Pocket Rocket, I get 22 boils of 16 oz of water from 8 oz of fuel with my titanium pot. Use 20 as the planning number. Only boil for dinner to 8 oz from dinner and 8 oz soup or tea.
I prefer my Caldera Ti-Tri below treeline and white gas above. That way I don't have to worry about partial canisters, temperature, disposal.... Cookless in warmer months.
"Ideal conditions" inside makes for a nice baseline, but it's only one condition. Make some other baselines, too, examine the performance over the range of conditions with data points on: air speed, precipitation, temperature, and elevation.
Not really, it would just add variables that can't be accounted for to the data (sporadic wind, outside temp, heating from direct sunlight) which would result in data that cannot be reproduced, and is largely useless. Better to figure ideal, cut it in half.
@@DerKatzeSonne I don't have a backyard. I just go to a local park if I'm testing a new stove. If the place has grills or firepits it's generally ok to do that there.
@@innawoodsman Well... as someone who is a more introvert person, I dislike this idea quite a lot. Even more thinking about pitching a tent! Haha :D well, I tried the stuff in my parents' garden, even though they don't live next street. And sure, there are ways. Just wanted to point out it's not always that easy.
@@DerKatzeSonne Are you serious!? Practicing with your gear *before* your trip may be some of the easiest things a person can do in their lifetime. The world is full of challenges, practicing with one’s toys is hardly one of them.
She is using the difference in weight between the fill can and after boiling 1/2 liter of water. If you use liquid fuel, you need to measure how many ounces of fuel you pour into the stove, then measure how many ounces are left after you boil once (or twice!) The time to boil the water doesn't factor into the amount of fuel used. It's just for knowledge. This experiment is only useful if you are camping at a site that's about the same elevation as the place where you do this experiment (at home.) If you climb mountains much higher than home, then you will need slightly less fuel for each boil (water usually boils faster at higher elevations.) The important point is to figure the amount (in grams or ounces) of fuel needed to boil the 1/2 Liter of water, then multiply by the number of meals for the total.
An important factor is temperature: it takes significantly more time/fuel to boil water taken from a 40ºF mountain stream than water that starts at 70ºF.
Any thoughts on how altitude might affect these calculations? At 10,000 feet, water boils at 194f, so it might take less fuel to boil. However, combustion might be less efficient due to reduced atmospheric oxygen.
That’s a good question, I reckon it depends on your stove first and foremost. Also depends on wind and other variables but I think medium high is most efficient as you won’t be losing water boil temps through the atmospheric temperature around you. Aka, faster the boil the less heat you lose through a slow boil.
Nice video, but one fallacy here: The pressure in the canister does not continually decline. Most of the gas is in a liquid state and compensates for use of gas by some of the liquid turning into gas to compensate for the pressure drop. The effect of lower pressure when the canister is empty is caused by a drop in temperature. A liquid evaporating uses heat, so the temperature of the gas is lower than the liquid. The pressure of this gas/liquid system is lower at lower temperatures. If there is still a lot of liquified gas in the canister the sheer amount will compensate for the temperature drop. When the canister is nearly empty the temperature can't be compensated and you get the typical " cold canister"showing it will be empty soon.
Very well done Katie.. I have kinda wondered myself about just how much fuel i should put in my pack so to be safe i take two canisters , just in case i need to stay longer by 1 or 2 two days ..Yes it does vari by stove output and weather conditions , temps , windy, altitude .. I did my search for information at home with my stove i use the most .. I did not weigh my canisters new or after i just kept boiling measured water amounts until the ctg was depleted then i knew in round figures how many ounces one canister of fuel would boil.. One other thing i like to do as 110 gram ctg is $xxxxx amount and 220 gram ctg is only $1.30 more than the 110 gram is , so i buy 220 gram ctg which is a little more bulk in my pack but that's fine ..Rule of the woods for my past 56 years has been ; it's better to pack it and not need it then to need it and not have it ..thanks well done ..
Here are some factors that were not mentioned: Altitude, gas mixture/temperature, accidental spillage & sharing resources. 1. water boils at lower temps at altitude. Yes. Water at sea level boils at 212 degrees Fahrenheit at 5,000 feet above sea level, the boiling point is 203 degrees F. Up at 10,000 feet, water boils at 194 degrees F.. 2. Gas mix. The primary culprit is butane, which stops vaporizing at 31 degrees Fahrenheit (its boiling point). (Isobutane-a chemical variation of butane-continues vaporizing down to 11 degrees Fahrenheit.) 3. Yes, accidents do happen. Our pot tip's over and we have a mess...time to re boil water. 4. Sharing resources (using the videos consumption reference) will force you to round down on canister usage and bring double the fuel needed for that trip.
The 230 gram canisters seem like they last forever. I only cook once a day but I had one canister go from Dunsmuir, CA to Trout Lake, WA and another lasted the rest of Washington when I was on the PCT last year.
The side of my jet boil 100g can says 24 boils! I'm glad I saw this because what the heck. I'm not sure how much water was tested to make them come up with 24. Is real life literally half of what they are advertising?
This is a nice experiment. If it is exact, no it is not. One would have to consider the aptitude, wind factor, season, aso. But that is for us to add to the equation. So thanks for the videos, really helpful. Keep up the good work. From Romania with love! :)
I take a fuel canister per 4 days plus a partial just incase. Boils have so many variables you cant math it out. Just take a little extra or eat cold food
If anyone thinks boiling water with twigs and leaves in cold, wet conditions is easy, they've either never been camping or they've camped more times than there are stars in the sky. I'm a noob, so I love these little pocket rockets :)
Used a wood burning Vargo stove for 1200 miles on the AT. Much of it in the rain, often days of rain. It does take good fire making knowledge, but nowhere near as hard as you make it sound.
@@sublyme2157 Probably the best tip is to look under downed trees. Under the tree usually keeps dry. Grab sticks and twigs from under them. Usually I would look around while I hiked during the day and would put some sticks and tinder in my pocket for later when I wanted to cook. Once you get it started, using broken deadwood sticks that are off the ground is best. Fallen limbs that have caught on other saplings is usually where you find them, and pretty easy to find.
@@oz-ng4tl You say that like it's a bad thing. A thicker, stouter, reusable canister would easily be worth the weight and cost. Think about the added cost and waste of each new disposable canister that you need.
An 11 fluid ounce white gas bottle has similar cooking power to a 220 gram propane/butane canister. "similar" My 220 g fuel cans last me 5 days for one guy. White gas loses a little to butane mix canisters because of priming losses, and spilling drops of it here and there, making and breaking connections.
Really impressed that you mentioned the lack of stove Regulation. Not something the average shopper would know to think about.
I don't think that's true, though. The bulk of the fuel in the canister is liquid and the partial pressure doesn't change depending on how much is used. Assuming consistent temperature, the gas pressure is the same until very near the end when all liquid vaporized.
Passing on some advice I got a long while ago: write the total weight in grams w/ sharpie at the bottom. Then at the end of each trip, do it again.
That's not a bad idea. It's about the same as she did in the video. After the trip, you can figure how much fuel (on average) for each boil by figuring the difference and dividing by the number of boils.
I prefer ounces.
@@5stardave HYOK... the net weight on my can says 3.53oz / 100g... one has easier math imo
@@5stardave And that's fine but you get better precision with grams ...
@@3nertia that's...not how units work. Both can be just as precise...
As a newbie, this video knocked it out of the park. And I was really surprised at the attention to detail on the variables in this. The team on this video really covered their bases.
This is really a sensational video.THANK YOU for calling out the caveats! You hit them all! This was indoors, no wind, unregulated stove. The only thing you didn’t mention was water temp! If you are using filtered water from a stream it is going to be COLD which will affect boil time. Great Video, thanks.
Very informative video. Sometimes REI stuff is too top level. I appreciate this one getting in the weeds but still making it very clear and concise.
Well done. Right to the point, mentioned that there will be variables that impact “Real Life” and showed the math so users can draw their own conclusions.
Appreciate that this was not a “Sales Pitch” (heck, even used an older burner!).
Thank you.
Subscribed
Suuuuuuper video!!! If we could only have every video be this worthwhile. For this we can thank REI and cross our fingers for others to step up to the bar that has been raised. Until then…thank you REI for putting a ton of time and effort into a vid that was educational and enjoyable!
Sure it's under ideal conditions, but the test gives a nice baseline. Thanks for the video. I prefer to carry esbit so I can take just the right amount of fuel and not have to carry around empty canisters, but this is a great starting point for thinking about how many canisters to carry for when I have to take the old MSR.
Thanks for talking in metric millilitres and grams. This is much more relatable for most of the world. Great vid, useful information 👍
I have noticed more and more Americans using Metric nowadays. I really hope we do a full on conversion soon. It was supposed to happen in the 70s but we got lazy lol
@@LydJaGillers communist. it's freedom units or nothing
🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
This is a great video for helping kids learn division/ multiplication
There's no need to go to a full boil for most rehydration cooking. If you stop when you start getting a couple of bubbles on the bottom it will be plenty hot especially when you use a coozy. Depending on the food, I have the stove on less time, maybe 25-30% less. For hot chocolate I only heat till hot to the touch.
Nice point!
We need videos like this rather than comparing stoves. GD job 😍😍😍
Math never makes sense to me. This was great. Wish I had a math teacher like you back in the day.
Thanks for watching, Ver! We're glad our video was able to help you out. 😊
Great job....good info. Please look past the "could of" "should of" "would of" gang. Mileage always vary...we're adults. Thanks again nice job, good vid and awesome data.
Very useful! I was about to do this on my back porch so thanks for saving me the effort. One of these will do 6 liters or about 25 cups of water. I can boil water for oatmeal and coffee and one of these will last me 12 days or 6 days if I have a dinner. Many thanks.
We're so glad this information was timely for you. Thanks for watching!
Thanks to the G Works adapter, I always start any & all trips with a FULL canister of fuel. I don't have any partially empty canister laying around. When I return from a trip, I top of the canister until it is FULL.
Thanks for the tip!:)
Great video! The pot I use to boil water has a heat exchanger and it dramatically cut down on boil times. I always place the lid on the pot as well, which further cuts down on boil times.
So 27 min 30 sec to burn through 100 g of fuel with that setup. I'd be really interested to see a comparison of burn times and boil times for different burners and tanks. I'm also curious what position your valve was in, but assume it was fully open.
Huge difference between boiling cold water in winter and boiling warmer water in summer. Obviously wind and altitude also play a role. It's probably more reliable to keep track of how long you've used a particular container, since assuming that the stove is burning full on, the time per canister should be relatively reproducible. Once you know that you get X number of minutes of burner time from a canister, you can just time each boil on the stopwatch on your phone, and keep a phone note of time used for the canister.
Nicely presented; excellent information! My results show about 3 minutes per boil for 500 mL (at 8,200 feet elevation). Complications as noted here and in comments are starting temp of water and wind, and not noted but critical, elevation. So bottom line, for minimalist, ultralight, 5-7 day section at 10,000 to 11,000 elevation with ONE canister I will start with one 3-minute boil per day (dinner), use wind screen, warm icy creek water in pack or even perhaps with body heat, then splurge on two boils per day in final two or three days. Comments?
I like hot breakfast and suppers. So i plan on two boils a day... i carry a altoids mini emergency stove in my pack for lunch or a mid afternoon drink. Start to finish about 9 min with set up boil cool down and crushing out the ashes. I also use aluminium foil for windstop and couple loose rocks as back stop. And 250 ml of water to drench the ashes.
I love your video thank you for that. It’s something that everybody should know and you do a great job of it. Thank you.
As so many have said: Excellent video!
Probably the best take home message - do your own homework if you tend to be OCD and want to be prepared. The alternative is to risk over- or under-resourcing. Admittedly, you can probably live without a stove for an entire through hike, but.. ***shudder*** who would want to. Hot caffeine in the AM fuels human existence. Experiment in your backyard and have some fun.
Again, many thanks!
Great video! Super helpful as I've been meaning to find the answer to this myself, thanks for doing the work for me! Same small collection of partially used containers in my gear...Sharpie tally marks on the bottom to keep track of # of boils will be my future plans. Thank you!
This is a decent baseline so long as you make sure to control for the temperature of the tap water; however, you'll want a much more conservative 'safety' margin than 1.25, preferably > 1.5 or even 2.0 if hiking in cold, windy conditions.
I did a camping trip last week and barely had any fuel in one canister, it lasted me the entire trip, two breakfasts (including water for coffee and oatmeal, plus bacon for the first morning) and two dinners (boiling water and cooking meat). I was very impressed with my stove I used and how little fuel it took to feed me for the three days I was gone. I even had major windy conditions both evenings. I had a snow peak canister. I still took an extra canister with me, in case I ran out of fuel (No fires and no BBQs where I was camping, stoves must have regulators on them).
Excellent video! Very valuable info to know before hitting the trail. Appreciate the vid!
Please don't forget that you can use your stove to start a warming fire. So pack extra lp always. It can save your life. Packing extra fuel weight is never a bad think. Thank You REI. Miranda Poops 😁
For all the people saying they use wood to boil water and don't use stoves, keep in mind that in some places it is illegal to have open fires. Also, during certain times of the year or after an extended period of time without rain it is also illegal. Thru-hikers use them for the first reason. Some places, like Harper's Ferry WV, you can't have open fires or stoves. That is because of a historical fire that occurred there I believe.
Genius! Something I have always wondered. Now it's clear. Thanks!
Woohoo! Thanks for stopping by.
The starting temperature of the water was not included in the test which is an important factor as you are raising a given volume of water from a starting temperature to a boil. Mountain streams and lakes are cold!!
She said multiple times, "in ideal conditions." The implication was pretty clear that if the water is colder or if there's wind, it'll take longer to boil.
Also take into consideration that the water boils sooner at higher elevations.
This is a great video! I was just thinking about investing into a portable gas stove, I had no idea what a regulated stove was (the new MSR Pocket Rocket actually has this feature). Thank you ❤
I agree, in most real world conditions, 10 boils of 500 ml of water per standard iso butane canister with an MSR Pocket Rocket us about right. And it also validates my inclination toward liquid fuel stoves for more than three days and if you like more than one hot meal a day. Light up the stove wars.....
After getting a free MSR Dragonfly, I think i've found my perfect stove for me. I'm usually cooking for more than just myself, and it just made carrying one medium size fuel bottle for 3 days vs the 3 ISO canisters I used to to have to carry with my Whisperlite Universal. (Yes I know the Whisperlite can use liquid fuel) But the dragonfly is the better stove in my opinion.
I just knew this was gonna be a science lesson. Just knew!!
Now that was helpful & practical!
Great presentation 👏 the way you explained this was simple and informative, well done 🥰 from rick Perth Australia 🇦🇺
I get a kick out of the people commenting and talking about how its a waste to bring fuel. Many places you go there is no fuel. What do you burn above tree line or in the desert? Lichen? Rocks? Sand? I also got a kick out of people saying fuel is a waste of weight yet they say they bring guns/ammo/axes/etc... talk about a waste of weight.... And there are plenty of places you are not allowed to(or shouldn't) collect fuel, like high alpine environments or arid regions where the vegetation is scarce, or in more populated parks with heavy traffic.
Yep. And don't forget you can have coffee and tea while still being in a sleeping bag and tent.
I have a friend who doesn't bring a stove or fuel for trips 4 days or shorter. The majority of his calories is consumed in dry nuts. Cashews have the most calories per ounce out of all the nuts so he mostly lives on cashews during short backpacking trips.
@@RamaSivamani Imagine using the bathroom after only eating cashews, it'd feel like a saw movie
It is a very good video. Very instructional. It took me a while to understand the technical aspect of backpacking but I’m doing better at it. Being blind makes it a little bit difficult but not impossible. What is your favorite field system for backpacking? Thank you so much for sharing this video. God bless you.
Nicely done, I was thinking to be safe, assume 10 boils of 16 oz of water for a 100g canister.
I'm also going to assume 20 boils of 16 oz of water for a 220g canister, just to be safe.
Thank you for the demo of this process!
I like to pack my 20 lb lp grill tank with a 1lb adapter hose, 1lb to butane stove adapter, and a jetboil.
Did use a pocket rocket but the jetboil is way more efficient so the fuel lasts the whole weekend.
Useful information. I think it would be good, if in doubt carry the old, use it up along with a new canister.
Hello! Glad it helped. If the extra ounces will be OK to carry, that is an option as well.
@Click Bait Good question. Maybe it is a repost?
Click Bait REI Travel now offers trips to the recent past.
about what I came up with. 10 boils right on. Thx for the info..
Incredibly helpful
Thanks, very informative.
I love these videos. So helpful!
Very pleasant young lady with a well reasoned argument regarding the usage I'll get from my canister which is the same (absolutely identical) as hers. But mine says 110g net. on the side. I nit picking here, she answered my question, I'm going out to buy another canister...
Great tips! I always bring more fuel than I prob should.
I really like this type of video from REI. Great Job!
Just keep in mind this experiment showcases boiling water I’m assuming starting at room temp. Typically water i collect is always colder. I’d take the number if boils and multiple it by .75 to be safe. So 12 boils becomes 8-10
You’re on the money with that.
Some countries have free drinkwater points. The average hiker map have these marked. If you don't have 1 on your map go to the local information points. In the netherlands it's called vvv. It saves you gas if you want to drink or use something cold.
Hello Katie, thank you for sharing this great information, very mathematical. Do you have a video which features an alcohol stove? You did an extremely fine job in presenting the information. Take care and be safe. 🤗
That would be great to see, but I don't know if REI sells them!
Please note that these numbers are when going around room temperature. You could be burning much more fuel in the winter.
Excellent & very informative. Thank you!
Jet boil is more efficient with fuel especially if just boiling water...however your I do like that msr set up
I have a jet boil but didn't know it's more efficient. Do you know why and by how much? Thanks!
Excellent video. Thanks.
People should keep in mind that, although minimal, the amount of fuel lost between removing it from the burner and starting ignition can also play a factor in the amount of burn time and uses you will have...
Whoa. This passes peer review! I was just working on this the other day, my conclusion was 1 can per person for a 5 day trip, assuming two .5L boils/day, then throw in a partial can for margin.
Simmering pasta is a big variable, especially at altitude.
With my Pocket Rocket, I get 22 boils of 16 oz of water from 8 oz of fuel with my titanium pot. Use 20 as the planning number. Only boil for dinner to 8 oz from dinner and 8 oz soup or tea.
I prefer my Caldera Ti-Tri below treeline and white gas above. That way I don't have to worry about partial canisters, temperature, disposal.... Cookless in warmer months.
"Ideal conditions" inside makes for a nice baseline, but it's only one condition. Make some other baselines, too, examine the performance over the range of conditions with data points on: air speed, precipitation, temperature, and elevation.
www.mercatorgear.com has your answers. See comment above by the company 16 hours ago (today 7/28/2020)
Curious, wouldn’t the numbers be a bit closer if test was done outside ?
Not really, it would just add variables that can't be accounted for to the data (sporadic wind, outside temp, heating from direct sunlight) which would result in data that cannot be reproduced, and is largely useless. Better to figure ideal, cut it in half.
Practice cooking in your backyard before going backpacking outdoors.
That assumes that everyone actually has a backyard...
@@DerKatzeSonne cook in font of your house. The point I'm trying to make is practice.
@@DerKatzeSonne I don't have a backyard. I just go to a local park if I'm testing a new stove. If the place has grills or firepits it's generally ok to do that there.
@@innawoodsman Well... as someone who is a more introvert person, I dislike this idea quite a lot. Even more thinking about pitching a tent! Haha :D well, I tried the stuff in my parents' garden, even though they don't live next street. And sure, there are ways. Just wanted to point out it's not always that easy.
@@DerKatzeSonne Are you serious!? Practicing with your gear *before* your trip may be some of the easiest things a person can do in their lifetime. The world is full of challenges, practicing with one’s toys is hardly one of them.
She is using the difference in weight between the fill can and after boiling 1/2 liter of water. If you use liquid fuel, you need to measure how many ounces of fuel you pour into the stove, then measure how many ounces are left after you boil once (or twice!)
The time to boil the water doesn't factor into the amount of fuel used. It's just for knowledge. This experiment is only useful if you are camping at a site that's about the same elevation as the place where you do this experiment (at home.) If you climb mountains much higher than home, then you will need slightly less fuel for each boil (water usually boils faster at higher elevations.)
The important point is to figure the amount (in grams or ounces) of fuel needed to boil the 1/2 Liter of water, then multiply by the number of meals for the total.
Wow excellent video,the explication are well done,thanks
Awesome video 👍🏻
You also need to factor in wind & starting temperature. Your test water was at room temperature & not a freezing cold water stream.
It was a beginning. Not too rigorous, but at least makes backpackers BEGIN to think about the topic realistically.
She mentioned this at 2:30
do you find canisters of the same brand, are always the same weight? I have some neglected to weigh before I used, and don't know how much left.
Brock MacDonald Yes, all brands sell 100 grams.
@@markcummings6856
That was not the question asked.
An important factor is temperature: it takes significantly more time/fuel to boil water taken from a 40ºF mountain stream than water that starts at 70ºF.
What about the effects of high altitude? If hiking around Lake Tahoe at 7,000 ft, does water boil faster? Does that mean a canister will last longer?
Any thoughts on how altitude might affect these calculations? At 10,000 feet, water boils at 194f, so it might take less fuel to boil. However, combustion might be less efficient due to reduced atmospheric oxygen.
Is it more efficient to use low, moderate, or high power when boiling water and/or snow?
That’s a good question, I reckon it depends on your stove first and foremost. Also depends on wind and other variables but I think medium high is most efficient as you won’t be losing water boil temps through the atmospheric temperature around you. Aka, faster the boil the less heat you lose through a slow boil.
Nice video, but one fallacy here: The pressure in the canister does not continually decline. Most of the gas is in a liquid state and compensates for use of gas by some of the liquid turning into gas to compensate for the pressure drop. The effect of lower pressure when the canister is empty is caused by a drop in temperature. A liquid evaporating uses heat, so the temperature of the gas is lower than the liquid. The pressure of this gas/liquid system is lower at lower temperatures. If there is still a lot of liquified gas in the canister the sheer amount will compensate for the temperature drop. When the canister is nearly empty the temperature can't be compensated and you get the typical " cold canister"showing it will be empty soon.
This is what makes the community amazing. We appreciate the insight!
Very well done Katie.. I have kinda wondered myself about just how much fuel i should put in my pack so to be safe i take two canisters , just in case i need to stay longer by 1 or 2 two days ..Yes it does vari by stove output and weather conditions , temps , windy, altitude .. I did my search for information at home with my stove i use the most .. I did not weigh my canisters new or after i just kept boiling measured water amounts until the ctg was depleted then i knew in round figures how many ounces one canister of fuel would boil.. One other thing i like to do as 110 gram ctg is $xxxxx amount and 220 gram ctg is only $1.30 more than the 110 gram is , so i buy 220 gram ctg which is a little more bulk in my pack but that's fine ..Rule of the woods for my past 56 years has been ; it's better to pack it and not need it then to need it and not have it ..thanks well done ..
Useful information @👍
Here are some factors that were not mentioned: Altitude, gas mixture/temperature, accidental spillage & sharing resources.
1. water boils at lower temps at altitude. Yes. Water at sea level boils at 212 degrees Fahrenheit at 5,000 feet above sea level, the boiling point is 203 degrees F. Up at 10,000 feet, water boils at 194 degrees F..
2. Gas mix. The primary culprit is butane, which stops vaporizing at 31 degrees Fahrenheit (its boiling point). (Isobutane-a chemical variation of butane-continues vaporizing down to 11 degrees Fahrenheit.)
3. Yes, accidents do happen. Our pot tip's over and we have a mess...time to re boil water.
4. Sharing resources (using the videos consumption reference) will force you to round down on canister usage and bring double the fuel needed for that trip.
Cool informative video, thank y'all
Some manufacturers' canisters give you 10 less boils per canister...why is MSR so inefficient compared to Coleman?
Hey Thanks big help
The 230 gram canisters seem like they last forever. I only cook once a day but I had one canister go from Dunsmuir, CA to Trout Lake, WA and another lasted the rest of Washington when I was on the PCT last year.
The side of my jet boil 100g can says 24 boils! I'm glad I saw this because what the heck. I'm not sure how much water was tested to make them come up with 24. Is real life literally half of what they are advertising?
They aquired testing water from a hot spring. 👻
Can you do that in cups and not the british messerments ?
Here I am with a jetboil with too much fuel for every trip. I use the same canister for multiple mulit-day hikes
Great vid. Thank you!
Are boil times different with titanium and aluminum?
Great info REI. I just subed
Thank you needed to know that, oh your kinda cute also 😉
I can’t like this video enough
This is a nice experiment. If it is exact, no it is not. One would have to consider the aptitude, wind factor, season, aso. But that is for us to add to the equation. So thanks for the videos, really helpful. Keep up the good work. From Romania with love! :)
Fabian Margarint that's why you can count on 10 boils, not 12.
I take a fuel canister per 4 days plus a partial just incase. Boils have so many variables you cant math it out. Just take a little extra or eat cold food
I count 3 days per canister. But I also drink tea both morning and evening
Real rocket science,wow!
A windscreen properly deployed will also help your fuel canisters last longer
If anyone thinks boiling water with twigs and leaves in cold, wet conditions is easy, they've either never been camping or they've camped more times than there are stars in the sky. I'm a noob, so I love these little pocket rockets :)
Used a wood burning Vargo stove for 1200 miles on the AT. Much of it in the rain, often days of rain. It does take good fire making knowledge, but nowhere near as hard as you make it sound.
Dude, that's awesome! Knowledge is indeed powerful. On those rainy days, what did you do to find dry fuel?
@@sublyme2157 Probably the best tip is to look under downed trees. Under the tree usually keeps dry. Grab sticks and twigs from under them. Usually I would look around while I hiked during the day and would put some sticks and tinder in my pocket for later when I wanted to cook. Once you get it started, using broken deadwood sticks that are off the ground is best. Fallen limbs that have caught on other saplings is usually where you find them, and pretty easy to find.
REI needs to offer refilling services for these canisters. I'm sure they'd make money.
Nice, but you would probably need a stouter valve and stronger canister for it to work.
These butane-propane canisters are structurally designed for single use. It would require to re-engineer a new canister/tank.
@@oz-ng4tl
You say that like it's a bad thing.
A thicker, stouter, reusable canister would easily be worth the weight and cost.
Think about the added cost and waste of each new disposable canister that you need.
Always test with ice-cold water. At least where I backpack the water is stupidly cold.
Nice job! = THX
🙌😀
212 seconds for.5 liters.
That's one second per degree for boiling point.
Pocket rocket 2 does a full liter in 3 min.
Thanks for this
check your math buddy there weren't 100 seconds in a minute last time i checked
She does a better job than Miranda in the Wild, REI…
I learned something!
u take that back
Awesome 👍
thank you helpful for me
My stove uses liquid fuel - how much should I bring?
An 11 fluid ounce white gas bottle has similar cooking power to a 220 gram propane/butane canister. "similar"
My 220 g fuel cans last me 5 days for one guy. White gas loses a little to butane mix canisters because of priming losses, and spilling drops of it here and there, making and breaking connections.