🧙♂️ Jenny of Oldstones and the Prince of Dragonflies | ASOIAF Quaranstream
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 พ.ย. 2024
- Tell Alexa to play Jenny's Song and get ready for a wave of feels. Tomorrow at 2 PM EST I'll be streaming about Jenny of Oldstones and her Prince Duncan of Dragonflies. How the two of them almost tore apart a kingdom and why they are remembered.
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#ASOIAF #JennysSong #GameOfThrones
"It's a classic love story" *half an hour later* "Sweet, swampy ass"
I regret everything and nothing about that
@@JoeMagician this is just the best statement you could have made regarding it ^^
Black Betha could well be a reference to the classic Ram Jam song "Black Betty". Betha and Aegon were known for trying to create politically advantageous marriages for their children, but they all resisted and married for love. And here's how the song starts...
Whoa, Black Betty (Bam-ba-lam)
Whoa, Black Betty (Bam-ba-lam)
Black Betty had a child (Bam-ba-lam)
The damn thing gone wild (Bam-ba-lam)
She said, "I'm worryin' outta mind" (Bam-ba-lam)
The heir to the Iron Throne marrying a swamp witch with ties to the Old Gods and the Children of the Forest would definitely have qualified as "gone wild" by the standards of the court.
I would absolutely love if it this is true, please GRRM
@Buck Biggler Man you're a gods damn genius I love how you saw it like that AND I LOVE THAT SONG bruh, dude for real ten thumbs up for that connection. (All my fingers are thumbs)
I always thought that the song on the show hinted at Jenny surviving the fire and going insane. That would also explain the Ghost of Highheart's gorging on grief, if she saved her Jenny only to watch her go insane and waste away. It would be heartbreaking but also very realistic.
Also Jenny's song mentioning"the ghosts that loved her the most" and it being a very sad love song... I guess it would work if they were to die in the fire but if the song is only what we got on the show, than the love story would be known but not included in the song. The song would thus become a very sad love song (her surviving and dancing with the ghosts of her love) without actually mentioning the love story in an obvious manner.
I also see parallels of Dunk and Egg with Gendry and Arya too. Except Arya is a girl, and it's highly likely Gendry and Arya will have a future romance. What I love about GRRM's writing is that so many characters can parallel other characters, especially past characters. Not only does Arya parallel Egg - she even had a straw hat when she arrived in Braavos - but she parallels Lyanna and because she's so much like Lyanna we can see parallels of both with Jenny of Oldstones as well - minus the marriage part for Arya so far, but Arya is young also so it makes sense we don't see this parallel in her story yet. Then we have Gendry who has parallels with Dunk and Robert. As someone who loves looking at parallels and finding patterns it makes reading and analyzing ASOIAF a complete joy. :)
1:50:30 I always assumed George has no living relatives considering what he writes. Must be weird at Christmas dinners...although they are catholic, hmmm.
Fun fact: Charles Dance (actor who plays Tywin Lannister) found some new relatives on the other side of the globe and the teenage sons were thrilled to find out, the mothers not so much and fathers didn't even appear in the interview. I thought it was hilarious how his nephews were geeking out about Tywin Lannister being their great great 3 times removed uncle.
Jenny of oldstones was a young woman who was free spirited and unconventional and represented to duncan a freedom that he didn't have in his life and was attracted to that.
Great stream!!! When I saw Florence and the machine and she sang this I was freaking out. Of course my non asoif friends were a little confused but I felt like i was living my best life
I am insanely jealous of that
Excellent pick and a great stream!!!
The song was a nice surprise in a otherwise sad season and, it makes me wonder, if the lyrics were written by George, what is its hidden significance. I noticed long ago nowere in the books it is stated Jenny died in the blaze, so I tend to imagine her wondering mad with grief around the ruins at Summerhall, “the hall of the kings who are gone”. Her alleged dance could be with the ones she had lost - mainly Duncan’s Ghost, the ones she had found - presuming she met Rhaegar and he remind her of Duncan, and the ones who loved her the most - well, if the Ghost of High Heart was her Mother it is obviously nobody could love her more.
I imagined Jahaerys married Saera and wanted his own children to marry, too, because none of their Dragon-Eggs had hatched, and they realized probably by the help of Jenny of Oldstones their Dragonblood had been watered down, and they had somehow to strengthen it. - I can't wait to read the end of Dunk and Egg at Summerhall, and I hope it comes out before A Dream of Spring.
In the years of waiting for winds to come to reality ive came across just about every bit of lore and theory around but I can say I don't know much about the Prince of dragonflies so I'm really looking forward to this gonna sit back close my eyes and soak this in. Thanks Mat.
so till this stream i was 100% convinced that Jenny survived summerhall and stayed in ruins and LOST HER MIND(got psychosis and started to talk to the "ghosts" and dancing with them).. sooo... idk, now im confused that it might not be the case.
When in doubt with how GRRM would write it, think, what would hurt the most.
I think you have it right.
Great video! Thanks Joe!
Two years late to the party but... Duncan went from Prince of Dragon-stone to Prince of Dragon-flies. Extremely good meta wordplay from GRRM there.
Great stream again! Couldn’t make it last night, but rewatched it now
I believe Jenny survived Summerhall. But only for a few years. In those years, she danced with her ghosts and never wanted to leave. And the only one left that actually cared for Jenny watched her wither away as she, too, became a Ghost (of Highheart).
Black berthas personality probably played a huge role is how the prince of dragonflies acted but if I remember correctly these marriages were actually partly her idea so I doubt she’d be encouraging her kids to disregard something she wanted to happen.
I believe it was in the world of ice and fire.
For other parallels it was said that aegon the conquers wives enjoyed playing match maker with different lords in an attempt to make the seven kingdoms more united
Yes good call, have to imagine the do as I say not as I do works as well for betha as Aegon. Having a hand in the marriage arrangements probably only highlighted the hypocricy more for her children given her personality.
Joe Magician I agree. One more change is I believe Duncan announced his rights to the throne after Duncan the tall defeated the laughing storm.
Personally I believe he did so after he saw that his let’s call it selfish marriage caused tons of people to die. Also from the world of ice and fire
I enjoyed the video I always love me some deep lore discussion. Thanks!
What if Rhagar met Jenny and the ghost of high heart and wrote the song for her.
Klaus from the Umbrella Academy gave me really strong Daeron the Dreamer vibes, I wonder if there's a link there, or another character/archetype that inspired both
33:23 That good ole Riverlands WAP
I so believe tho that aeg had the ritual correct but he didnt let dunc know what he was doing so dunc saved someone that needed to die the wood witch who was the mary masdern for aeg and stopped the dragons from coming
Nice one Joe,
Egg arranged those marriages in order to make everything better and, thereby, made everything worse.
Ser Bonifer had a thing with royalty. Thats really cool, didnt know that I wonder if thats what made him go all religious losing her.
I imagine Jenny of oldstones to be like Jenny Nicholson, awkward dry and witty, with weird interests
I was just watching a Jenny Nicholson video!
The ghost of highheart could also be the adoptiv mother or aunt of Jenny, you do not need blood to tie people togeather. Even in asoiaf we see this time and time again, Jon arryn, Ned and Robert felt like family, Theon and Rob felt like family, Davos deeply loves his Princess Shireen . . .
I think it is less Romeo and Julliet and more Tristan and Isolt or Lancelot and Gwenyther . . . Romeo and Julliets romance does not cause the problems, the problems already where there and their tragedy resolved the fighting . . . While in the older stories, the romance itself made everything around it break apart, like with Jenny und Duncan and Rhegar and Lyanna. Grrm is draws very heavely from the King Arthur mythos for his story already
I always get sad over Washs death
Bring a bucket and a mop for some wap from jenny😛👌
Ben Shapiro hates this
This was the first song to make me feel too old.
My Alexa responded to that request 😅
QA: you talked about dunc and his discendents. Is small paul also one since he is also giantic and is called; with a head thick as a castle wall?
Do we know what Jenny looked like?! Total tinfoil after this stream: what if the Ghost of Highheart is Alice Rivers (and she had say a glamor on when she was with Amon) and Jenny was their daughter?! ^^"
No official art, just can infer what she looked like. Riverlands usually have brown hair and brown eyes, and since her appearance isn't noted most fan artists assume she looked typical.
That question at 1:40:00, yeah knowing that GRRM goes for the emotional sucker punches, I’d say if Jenny and Duncan did have a child, Jenny was pregnant during the events of Summerhall, probably not showing yet bc I don’t think the Targaryens would have let her and the child go if they knew.
Do we have any examples of mothers who weren’t really “there” bc of extreme depression/tragedy, this idea might have more significance if we see foreshadowing in the book
Is Leaf BS'ing when she says she lived years amongst humans? Was she glamoured? How did she get away with it? Why doesn't anyone talk about it, it's so bizarre!
Bloodraven was not at court, he was sent to Wall when Aegon V took the throne.
Correct, but he would've been around as Duncan grew up and certainly up until Aeg was crowned. Duncan was somewhere around 10-12 when BR was exiled.
Do anyone know(book readers) wether Ser Duncan the Tall was the realm best swordsman at the time or not
He wasn't ever considered a great swordsman. Rather a great fighter, since he learned to brawl on the streets of King's Landing. He'd use his brawling skills and huge size and strength to overwhelm opponents with okay sword skills.
@@JoeMagician thanx
Also seems like not getting to be king and losing all titles is a pretty big consequence tho
I love u Joe♡♡♡
Duncan the Small, the OG spoiled brat, even Aerion had a sense of duty despite his insanity, but the Dragonfly? No sense of his privileges (arranged marriage basically comes with not having to plow fields all day, suck it up) and the consequences of his actions for the people or the realm, Baratheon being an important and leal possible ally for the smallfolk friendly reforms.
The real hero in this tale is the Laughing Storm, seeing the bloodshet for his honours sake and ending it by putting his own neck out, despite time and prolonged bloodshet furthering his cause.
obligatory comment for the algorythm
i kind of get this feeling that the maggi the frog prophecy is really for denaerys. She will lose all 3 dragons and jon will be king or may be the one to kill her
Like maybe dany was supposed to be to one hearing that prophecy from maggy at that time
And what if the north made a pact with the NK to not take up arms against them. Why a stark has to remain in winterfell. The main prophecy that there will have to be someone from specific sides of ice and Fire to hold them back. Did the WW start being the enemy when the Starks broke a pact with them?
Did lyanna and rhaegar making jon cause the WW to come back out? That Lyanna consummating brought the starks closer the the throne and farther away from the north.
and could we be thinking that jahaerys & alyssanne were the ‘good’ ones, but they were actually creating a larger divide?
Maybe illyrio and varys had 3 targaryan’s in play & were just waiting to see which showed the most promise?
All of summer hall was prince duncans fault. Aeg had to secure dragons after losing so many alliances.
The maesters set that castle on fire
I'm almost to the end of this vid but gotta add another note, I dont believe he wanted their heads...just for them to go to kings landing and swear fealty, It may read different but why would he destroy their entire line? He could just as easily have stripped them of titles and land witouht them being there
In a story that has numerous witches/mythical magical females that live unnaturally long lifespans (Shiera, Mellisandre GOHH) that Alys Rivers and Jenny might be related in a more simple way...being the same person???
But their describtions do not match up, ambitions, behaviour noted in encounters . . . The witchqueen of harrenhal was ambitious and vengeful, Jenny apeared to be none of thathappy with her duncan after he steped down from his claim to the throne, alys would have been furious
Honestly given the timeline who's to say the woidswitch isn't Jenny, the woods witch was already old so why couldn't it be Jenny remembering her past and saying "play my Jenny's song" in the past tense of when she identified as Jenny but was now the ghost of high heart? You do great work don't get me wrong but I watch a ton of GOT theories and I constantly find holes that need filling an wonder y no one else seems to notice...one more point...why would Jenny have stayed there at summerhall? How bout the song..she danced with her ghosts...and she never wanted to leave, never wanted to leave, never wanted to leave....
The woods witch might be Jenny but she did bring a woods witch to court with her. Maybe that was a different woods witch and she eventually becomes one herself
Seems pretty obvious they gave him the name prince of dragonflies because he was a dragon who gave up his throne to live in the river lands, not because he chose dragonflies over the throne. It’s a disparaging play on the targaryens being known as dragons
I think it's a pun on him renouncing as heir to the throne (AKA Prince of *Dragon*stone) for a girl from the swamps (*Dragon*flies). Maybe it's more obvious if English isn't your first language.
Maybe Guinevere and Arthur?? Didn’t she go live and die in a nuns retreat out of remorse for her infidelity??
Dude u fc kin nailed one thing, "the knight of Liechtenstein is dunk!!!! Wtf George I'm actually a little outraged here cuz I love that movie!!!! I kno all ideas can't be 100% original but watch a knights tale and look at dunk........im seriously upset with George and def gon look into wat else he "stole" ....i have a feeling ned, lyanna, and raegar are going to be found in old stories already told too once winds of winter is released....im soooo disappointed
I cant stand all the speculation of Blood Raven and how is controlling everything. At least for me, its too much!
theres no house beylish
Interacting hey joe
89
This stream has made me hate jenny and the prince of dragon flys
Jenny of oldstones is a myth and dragonflies can’t even wear crowns.
Bold
I didnt get to watch the stream yet because of work so I am just assuming that is the official position everyone takes!