First time listener and I'm stunned by the depth you are able to go into! Subbed and I will try to join live next time, if it's possible. (This video made me realise why GRRM needs so long to write TWOW!!!)
Thank you very much for another great stream. I really enjoy your theories about ASOIAF as you always try to see if they fit to the story, while most people around the community struggle to fit the story to their theories. Now, I don’t know how you feel about Rhaegar, but as one can’t discuss Summerhall without mentioning our gloomy - doomy prince, I feel the need to share some of my views on him with you. I consider people avoid to talk about Rhaegar as some of them don’t understand him at all and the majority actually dislikes him: dead long ago, alleged rapist and the Mad King’s son. Some even refuse to accept he is Jon’s father. I have to ask, would we like him better if he would be the gloomy descendant of Duncan the Tall? Let me explain myself. Aerys dislikes Rhaegar and suspects he is no son of his. This is not uncommon amongst Targaryen kings, but I have to add, in their deffence, Targaryen wifes are far from being a faithful bunch. And Why in the name of the Seven Hells GRRM adds Bonifer Hasty to the story? What is he hidding? What tremendous sinn made him pledge himself to the faith? One could argue he become religious due to his pure and unfullfield love for Rhaegar’s mother, but this sounds dull and I don’t think anybody could accuse GRRM of being dull. I don’t know how this could affect the story, but could be a good way of bringing some Strong blood, maybe Duncan’s own, to Jon’s lineage. As much as I dislike tinfoil, I can’t help notice Bonifer enchanted young Rhaella as a tourney knight and as far as we know he is the right age to be sired by another fond of tourneys and other people’s wifes knight, mostly known as Duncan the Tall. Which could also give the last one extra reasons to save the child meant for sacrifice.
I think before he sets the fire Egg will tell Dunk to leave and go do something. Either to save his friend or knowing that dunk would not let him do it. Maybe in the start of the book egg will ask dunk if he believes a few lives are worth the rest of the world and we will have a Davos moment where dunk says the three lives are why we protect the world
I took the repeating of the name Wyla as another subtle method of world building. Across Westeros there are different names that are popular, and there are naming conventions, like Walder Freys kids and grandkids being Walders and Waldas, Wyman has Wylas. These are people who name their kids after people they want to honour or whom they love, like us. It's a subtle and small thing but it connects us as readers to this world and makes it feel just slightly more real allowing us to be even more immersed and become more invested.
I like the idea that maybe the New God's may have not wanted a return of such powers. The Old God's and New could have been against the idea and played a part in the downfall of Summer hall.
Re: question about why Bloodraven "let Aegon Blackfyre happen": there are no weirwoods in Essos, so perhaps Bloodraven's influence is limited to Westeros.
This video/stream was really solid. I loved the "Pyres and Blood" video, but I only thought of an 'issue' with it here when you were talking about Egg's interpretation. Namely: If all the Targs are seeing Dany in the flames/dreams, this means their reactions to the dream are predetermined. Just talking about Egg, if he doesn't see Dany's actions and misinterpret them, then he doesn't cause Summerhall (as is believed), which would change the timeline just from there. And this is without all the other dreamers acting on the visions. If your theory is correct and Dany's birthing of the dragons is what everyone is misunderstanding, this essentially makes the entire series predetermined from an in-universe perspective. And if this is the case, done this impact your views on the entire series? There's something that jumped out at me from you rereading Aemon's quote. I've read the line a lot, but it finally clicked; "the night Aegon was /conceived/." Not birthed, conceived. This means Rhaegar had to deliberately count back from Aegon's day of birth and then assume the conception happened on that very night. His mind went 'nine moons ago, a comet passed overhead. My son is born. Was that the night? Well, it must have been. Why else would it have happened so close to conception if not to be AT conception?' To sum: He was completely and utterly insane over the prophecy. Not just obsessed with it, but actively twisted things to fit. And I have to wonder, is Aemon the ultimate cause of the Rebellion? Did he blind and twist Rhagaer into being exactly like all the others who couldn't see beyond their obsessions regardless of its impact on the Kingdom?
A good comparison for Summerhall is Minas Tirith. Also Versailles was a farm, specifically a sheep "farm," people would perfume the sheep every morning for the royal annoyances
Children/old gods trying to bring about a merger of First Men and Targ lines: Much like Targs trying for generations to bring about Dany's awakening of the dragons, why not suggest that the Children/old gods wanted to bring about the birth of Jon?
In symbolic ways yes, in the plot could be just a bit too loose on the whole thing. The name is there, but the other parts are too superficial and recent if looking at the basic premise. Would have to look more to confirm, using the thinking behind your comment. Good luck 😉
it sure seems that it was a sabotage by the maesters since they don't want dragons back. I wonder if some of those eggs did hatch since people died there and a sacrifice was made but the dragon fire killed any hatched dragons
I think he chose 7 eggs because he was trying to increase his chances of getting 3 dragons( from the visions of Dani) and didn't know which eggs were viable
my question is, Why didn't Summerhall work? There was fire, there was blood sacrifice(even if not the intended sacrifice) with king's blood, there was magic. There should have been dragons born.
Most definitely, Daeron says that specifically in the Hedge Knight. Interestingly Tyrion also does much the same, he drinks a lot to stop himself from dreaming.
Aery’s dreams caused his madness too! Maybe he should have partied more. They are also giving sweet robin sweet sleep to give him dreamless sleep. I wonder what is so bad about these dreams that they drive people mad and they give up dreaming entirely if they can. I also wonder if it doesn’t relate to the dreaming through the trees that bran is doing. Dark things ahead for the future king I think
@@Luminousreign because allof them had green/fire dreams. Also a low version of green seeing. Jojen doesnt truly prosper with his green dreams as well.
How's this for a theory; Rheagar is Azor Ahia, and plunged his "sword" into water ( ice via Stark), a lion ( Joanne Lanister), and his wife ( Nissa Nissa, mother mother). Dany would be Lightbringer via her dragons, and Jon and Tyrion are broken. Also look at the triplets of Dany's act; one willing sacrifice (herself), one unwilling (Mari M), and one unknowing (her Drogo), so substitute Dany and Egg, Mari and Drogo with Rhealla and Rheagar.
First time listener and I'm stunned by the depth you are able to go into! Subbed and I will try to join live next time, if it's possible. (This video made me realise why GRRM needs so long to write TWOW!!!)
Saturdays at 2 PM EST!
Maekar keeps Bloodraven as his hand even after all his sulking. Awesome topic!
Dunk stopping Egg from burning Summerhall could parallel Jaimie and The Mad King. If that's how it played out.
All of the Great Houses have this theme of Discipline vs Indulgence.
Wtf.. I've never come across your channel before. That is a total crime. Subbed.
@@matthewwithum8372 yes! And apparently ageless too. You could tell me he's 22 or 56 and I would believe both.
Thank you very much for another great stream. I really enjoy your theories about ASOIAF as you always try to see if they fit to the story, while most people around the community struggle to fit the story to their theories.
Now, I don’t know how you feel about Rhaegar, but as one can’t discuss Summerhall without mentioning our gloomy - doomy prince, I feel the need to share some of my views on him with you.
I consider people avoid to talk about Rhaegar as some of them don’t understand him at all and the majority actually dislikes him: dead long ago, alleged rapist and the Mad King’s son. Some even refuse to accept he is Jon’s father. I have to ask, would we like him better if he would be the gloomy descendant of Duncan the Tall?
Let me explain myself.
Aerys dislikes Rhaegar and suspects he is no son of his. This is not uncommon amongst Targaryen kings, but I have to add, in their deffence, Targaryen wifes are far from being a faithful bunch. And Why in the name of the Seven Hells GRRM adds Bonifer Hasty to the story? What is he hidding? What tremendous sinn made him pledge himself to the faith? One could argue he become religious due to his pure and unfullfield love for Rhaegar’s mother, but this sounds dull and I don’t think anybody could accuse GRRM of being dull.
I don’t know how this could affect the story, but could be a good way of bringing some Strong blood, maybe Duncan’s own, to Jon’s lineage. As much as I dislike tinfoil, I can’t help notice Bonifer enchanted young Rhaella as a tourney knight and as far as we know he is the right age to be sired by another fond of tourneys and other people’s
wifes knight, mostly known as Duncan the Tall. Which could also give the last one extra reasons to save the child meant for sacrifice.
I’m saving this, but I’m too depressed to listen to it today. I love these two SO MUCH. I’ve got to just go back and read the three books.
. . . Know that feeling, I hope it gets better for you
Jaime knighting Brienne was one of the best scenes in ol of GoT and one of two I liked in season 8, it was brillant
I think before he sets the fire Egg will tell Dunk to leave and go do something. Either to save his friend or knowing that dunk would not let him do it. Maybe in the start of the book egg will ask dunk if he believes a few lives are worth the rest of the world and we will have a Davos moment where dunk says the three lives are why we protect the world
I love when Joe says, That's very kind, re: super chats. It reminds me of Robert of In Deep Geek.
I took the repeating of the name Wyla as another subtle method of world building. Across Westeros there are different names that are popular, and there are naming conventions, like Walder Freys kids and grandkids being Walders and Waldas, Wyman has Wylas. These are people who name their kids after people they want to honour or whom they love, like us. It's a subtle and small thing but it connects us as readers to this world and makes it feel just slightly more real allowing us to be even more immersed and become more invested.
You are explaining and going into details. So good and so much than any ISOIAF channel
I like the idea that maybe the New God's may have not wanted a return of such powers. The Old God's and New could have been against the idea and played a part in the downfall of Summer hall.
Re: question about why Bloodraven "let Aegon Blackfyre happen": there are no weirwoods in Essos, so perhaps Bloodraven's influence is limited to Westeros.
This video/stream was really solid. I loved the "Pyres and Blood" video, but I only thought of an 'issue' with it here when you were talking about Egg's interpretation. Namely: If all the Targs are seeing Dany in the flames/dreams, this means their reactions to the dream are predetermined. Just talking about Egg, if he doesn't see Dany's actions and misinterpret them, then he doesn't cause Summerhall (as is believed), which would change the timeline just from there. And this is without all the other dreamers acting on the visions. If your theory is correct and Dany's birthing of the dragons is what everyone is misunderstanding, this essentially makes the entire series predetermined from an in-universe perspective.
And if this is the case, done this impact your views on the entire series?
There's something that jumped out at me from you rereading Aemon's quote. I've read the line a lot, but it finally clicked; "the night Aegon was /conceived/." Not birthed, conceived. This means Rhaegar had to deliberately count back from Aegon's day of birth and then assume the conception happened on that very night. His mind went 'nine moons ago, a comet passed overhead. My son is born. Was that the night? Well, it must have been. Why else would it have happened so close to conception if not to be AT conception?' To sum: He was completely and utterly insane over the prophecy. Not just obsessed with it, but actively twisted things to fit.
And I have to wonder, is Aemon the ultimate cause of the Rebellion? Did he blind and twist Rhagaer into being exactly like all the others who couldn't see beyond their obsessions regardless of its impact on the Kingdom?
A good comparison for Summerhall is Minas Tirith. Also Versailles was a farm, specifically a sheep "farm," people would perfume the sheep every morning for the royal annoyances
Children/old gods trying to bring about a merger of First Men and Targ lines: Much like Targs trying for generations to bring about Dany's awakening of the dragons, why not suggest that the Children/old gods wanted to bring about the birth of Jon?
Do you think there's any connection in the names winterfell and summerhall. Ice and fire. Bran and Bloodraven
In symbolic ways yes, in the plot could be just a bit too loose on the whole thing. The name is there, but the other parts are too superficial and recent if looking at the basic premise. Would have to look more to confirm, using the thinking behind your comment. Good luck 😉
I love Duncan continually teaching Egg to check his privilege 👏
Greta stream. What do you think about making one about Bloodraven with Robert from in deep geek. Thank you.
Or you vs BrindenBfish on Storms end and the golden company
it sure seems that it was a sabotage by the maesters since they don't want dragons back. I wonder if some of those eggs did hatch since people died there and a sacrifice was made but the dragon fire killed any hatched dragons
I think he chose 7 eggs because he was trying to increase his chances of getting 3 dragons( from the visions of Dani) and didn't know which eggs were viable
i cant find you on spotify
open.spotify.com/show/6Fps57DUFxK0eCzRhh7Igq
my question is, Why didn't Summerhall work? There was fire, there was blood sacrifice(even if not the intended sacrifice) with king's blood, there was magic. There should have been dragons born.
What if it did work? And the Maester's made sure no-one/ nothing survived?
@@JCftwZOMFGwtf yeah i was thinking the same that what if it worked
On the drunkard - he probably drank to escape his dreams. Death by alcohol is not an uncommon fate for bipolar people IRL
Most definitely, Daeron says that specifically in the Hedge Knight. Interestingly Tyrion also does much the same, he drinks a lot to stop himself from dreaming.
Aery’s dreams caused his madness too! Maybe he should have partied more. They are also giving sweet robin sweet sleep to give him dreamless sleep. I wonder what is so bad about these dreams that they drive people mad and they give up dreaming entirely if they can. I also wonder if it doesn’t relate to the dreaming through the trees that bran is doing. Dark things ahead for the future king I think
@@Luminousreign because allof them had green/fire dreams. Also a low version of green seeing. Jojen doesnt truly prosper with his green dreams as well.
@@Schoki99 power has a price it seams
You need a warm drink next to you.
Mix ashes and blood mead into your garden next time
FIRE AND BLOOD!!
How's this for a theory; Rheagar is Azor Ahia, and plunged his "sword" into water ( ice via Stark), a lion ( Joanne Lanister), and his wife ( Nissa Nissa, mother mother). Dany would be Lightbringer via her dragons, and Jon and Tyrion are broken. Also look at the triplets of Dany's act; one willing sacrifice (herself), one unwilling (Mari M), and one unknowing (her Drogo), so substitute Dany and Egg, Mari and Drogo with Rhealla and Rheagar.
I knew it!! In cest=dragons and all kinds of ill l shhhht 💩
Are you going gray? Look so distinguished
Unfortunately, the ravages of time gets us all.
@@JoeMagician Look at it this way--you're in a transitional state--on your way to---SILVER FOX
@@JoeMagician Keep up the awesome content, man!