Dont hate on regice. I used him in singles wifi battles with s/v on my mono ice team. I had such fun with the silly guy, ev'd into def/attack, leftovers, tera ghost, tera blast, curse (which changes with tera), explosion and avalanche. Got some good kills with a curse setup under snow/aurora veil. Tera ghost lets you survive that last move, and no one expects the follow up tera ghost blast, or the explosion. So many lols one shotting flutter manes with ghost tera blast and other top tier mons. Of course curse boosted explosion too, so that could one shot most mons with 2 curses. (Rest of the team was: Alolan Ninetales, Chien-pao, Baxcalibur, Iron Bundle and Alolan Sandslash (hazards/hazard removal)/Kyurem when I decided I didnt care about hazards and just went hyper-o). That team did surprisingly well, and Regice won many games to pure rage quits lol.
@@usernametaken017 but it would put new players off the metagame if they had to comprehend such a confusing rule as a move not being allowed. Your average person is only clever enough to understand that a mon is banned
Sort of the inverse of the metas described here, RBY has a trade back meta where Pokémon have access to moves from GSC traded backwards. Alakazam gets the punches, Lax gets lovely kiss, etc.
That Diamond & Pearl DS footage filmed on a crappy camera really takes me back. I think there might still be a few videos of me playing on TH-cam somewhere. God I'm old.
As we already know, my house was left in shambles by a +6 Earthquake from the Mach Pokémon Garchomp. Gurdurr helped me rebuild my home after Jimothy Cool’s TH-cam channel reached 100 thousand subscribers, as agreed upon. However, we’re completely out of concrete. Gurdurr has agreed to evolve into Conkeldurr to overcome this inconvenience, but in order for the trade machine to function, Jimothy Cool must reach 105 thousand subscribers. Please help us, folks. Thank you.
Some people say Arceus is a Llama stuck in a fence. But his true form, Arceus-Origine, is actually a Horse wearing a Crown, as he is the true leader of the Horse Council. Arceus once created a format where every Horse had his Hayday. This is a metagame lost to time.
I was around 10 years old when battlenet was a thing, before gen 4 came out. The one thing i remember the most was that playing legendaries/mythicals was extremely frowned upon, so you couldn't used zapdos just out of principle lol
lol yeah, I remember secretly harboring so much resentment for my friend at the time, because he ran Zapdos on his team. Obviously Zapdos is a great OU Pokemon, and I respect it in hindsight, but I was such a Karen player back then that it didn't matter to me.
Gen 9 Pre-home was really fun because you’d get great usage out of a lot of the new pokemon like the Paldean Tauros, Skeledirge and Quaquaval had a larger impact, defensive options like Clodsire and Toedscruel (sleep was less problematic then). The pool of pokemon felt pretty healthy and once all the overbearing pokemon like Fluttermane/Bundle/Chi-Yu/Chien Pao/Shed tail/Espathra were removed, you began to see a really unique format that was pretty fun.
Yeah I miss my pre home balance team with Clodsire :( I've had no real desire to revisit the metagame post DLCs knowing I'd have to start team building from scratch again
My favorite lost metagame (and also my first) was Gen 6 OU Pre-pokebank. Back when it was just the pokemon available in game in X/Y might have been the only time Mega-Pinser was actually viable
This reminds me of the state of online multiplayer games now. In some ways the games we played even a year ago no longer exist, overwritten by years of patches and updates. Most infamous example is Overwatch 2. The goal of the patches isn't necessarily to improve the game but to maintain interest; if you feel the game is in a really good spot it's still inevitable that balance will be upset. I'm glad these fan organised scenes are more resilient, even if some moments are lost to time. Like Ludicolos in the rain.
I still remember the gen 8 leaked dlc meta (where the leak turned out to be fake, but everyone assumed it was real), where you had things like Rising Voltage + Close Combat Tapu Koko, and other broken stuff. It was mostly used in draft league communities, and I believe there was a showdown ladder of it for a bit
Don’t forget about the BDSP OU where Pursuit doesn’t exist. Because of that Gengar had to be banned for being too centralizing. Ultimately it was abandoned for being a lesser Gen 4 meta but it has some significant differences.
Video suggestion: talk about team preview and its consequences. Examples of dedicated leads pre-team preview, Zoroark and the shake up in gen 5 and maybe even speculate on what the game would be like today if team preview didn't exist.
Pre-home Gen 8 was actually a very interesting metagame. Especially interesting because it went through two phases: pre-Dracovish and post-Dracovish. Dynamax was also unbanned for a good while. Seismitoad being an OU staple was really cool, and overall it allowed for some cool teambuilding
Its not an “earlier version” of the metagame per se but back in early Gen 7 before Pokemon Bank was compatible with SM, there was a “Pre-Bank” OU. The reason why it isn’t necessarily an older version is because everything that was going to be available when Bank came out was already known, so there were two OU ladders that co-existed instead, and from the start “Pokebank OU” was recognized as the official metagame. The Pre-Bank ladder was removed two months later. That meta was completely different to modern USUM. Pokemon like Tapu Koko and Pheromosa (who was still legal) were really strong, and it led to Alolan-Marowak being the best mon in the format.
Surprised that tradeback RBY wasn't mentioned at all, considering it has pretty big sweeping changes on the RBY meta. Namely, Persian becomes the fastest sleeper in the tier gaining Hypnosis, Snorlax gets Lovely Kiss as a sleeping option, Gengar, Alakazam and Hypno get the elemental punches (& Hypno gets Amnesia on top of that). Lower tier Pokemon like Electabuzz and the Nidos also gain massive buffs from it.
There is one other lost metagame I can think of which is interesting though I don't know how popular it is so I don't know it is even lost. I believe it's called "Orre Colosseum Doubles" It's the very first iteration of what would become the currently used VGC rules. It comes from Pokemon XD Gale of Darkness's Orre Colosseum and uses the following rules. Format: Double battle Team Preview is available Bring 6 pokemon, choose 4 of the 6 you bring. Mewtwo, Mew, Lugia, Ho-oh, Celebi, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Jirachi and Deoxys are banned I don't remember whether the Orre Colosseum rules uses Sleep or Item clause but I think they do.
The Hypnosis buff in D/P is actually really big. It goes from a 16% chance of it missing twice in a row down to 9% which is only a 7% difference but idk it going from over 15 to sub 10 is pretty noticeable it is almost double the rate.
Weavile did get Icicle Crash in XY... as an egg move. The issue is that Weavile requires TM/Tutor for Knock Off, so for a year, Icicle Crash + Knock Off was an illegal set.❤
Icicle crash wasn’t available as an egg move to weavile until XY and there were no move tutors for knock off until ORAS. You could bring a weavile from Gen 4/5 with knock off but if you bred it again to get icicle crash it would lose knock off
@edfreak9001 knock off isn't a TM until Gen 9 so that isn't relevant. I believe they were incompatible because icicle crash became available as an egg move in gen 6, but there were no knock off tutors in XY. for this reason knock off was available through transfer, or icicle crash was available by breeding, but they weren't obtainable together until new tutors were added
This is something that's pretty interesting about VGC, especially in recent years where the format changes every 3 or so months. There are formats from early SwSh and SV where the player base hadn't quite figured a lot of stuff out, so metagames didn't have a lot of time to fully develop. The VGC Room on Showdown helps with this by occasionally hosting legacy formats, and I really think some of the more recent formats (2018 onward) are being kept alive and developed by VGC players, which is pretty cool
Gen IV DP was my first serious gen when I began playing on Shoddy Battle. I personally think it was a much healthier metagame than when Platinum was around. Latias was banned, No Iron Head on Jirachi, Salamence didn't have Outrage access, no Rotom-A (which is a huge reason rapid spin isn't viable in gen 4), no rampant Knock Off access (Clefable included), no rampant trick access, much more limited Sucker Punch access (unfortunately Dug still gets it). You do lose bullet punch Scizor and have to deal with 70% accuracy hypnosis Gengar, but sacrifices have to be made.
I actually thoroughly enjoyed the weather wars of Gen 5 so I'm glad there's still a metagame around where you can weather war to your heart's content, so for that reason I'll say the BW metagame is my favorite among these. But I do have to say I agree with McMeghan that the Gen 9 meta felt better before Home/DLC. Sure, there being fewer Pokemon meant that the stronger ones would dominate more, so teams were a little more same-y. But at the same time, the weaker dudes didn't have quite as many mons that just straight up did their thing but better, so you could have mons like Skeledirge put more work in, and even memey things like Arboliva and Bellibolt could do... something. It just feels good to use new mons, while with Home support you go back to using the same dudes that dominated past gens which just isn't as exciting and makes each generation feel more samey. Like if the Tapus and UBs were in SV we'd honestly be having a metagame that's 80% the same as Gen 8 plus Tera, which was almost banned anyway lol.
Rusa/200 was actually my favorite format growing up Skarm/mag is such a key part of the format, that ended up winning a couple important tournament games with a hp ground skarm that had enough speed evs to outspeed basically every magneton. You still had to predict it on the switch in since it was a 2shot, but it definitely worked a couple times until people saw it.
That Bw1 discussion was such a huge hit of nostalgia! That was my most played competitive gen when it was current and I HATE how much they completely changed it these days. I might go play the older one, cheers.
I played a few tournaments for this in 2024, got a couple of finals. This is a great video, but a few comments. Regice is not just the best special wall, but the best dder check too. A recentish development is hp bug regice for alakazam and grumpig. It's really fun because there no twave, no slide spam, no v5, and pinch berries aren't even a thing despite no sand.
Hi, the Gen 4 Retro VGC community do sometimes play with DP mechanics, or more specifically PBR mechanics with 70% accurate hypnosis (as well as team preview). We do this on the dawn showdown side server, which kindly implemented that mechanics change as a clause for us. So if anyone wanted to play DP singles on simulator, the dawn side server is an option. Of course cartridge is also there but most people can't do that nowadays.
ah. this is bringing back some long-lost memories of playing on the RSbot IRC channel right at the dawn of gen 3, and dealing with the surprisingly common pick of choice band ninjask. good times. or, times, at least
I can see people returning occasionally to VGC regulation A (formerly known as Series 1), which was one of the pre-Home formats and is generally remembered fondly.
I played pokemon all my life, but didn't start learning until gen 6 early x and y playing in facebook gyms monotype format, I played mono normal and surprised challengers who brought scizor as a hard counter with special sweeper persian using technician, hp fire, swift, icy wind and nasty plot, rock climb tauros was also crazy and was hard for people to counter, but the funniest thing I did was use eviolite fletchling to set tailwind, stall with gale wing roost and just for shits and giggles toxic and quick guard, self destruct snorlax wasn't something challengers saw coming either
@LiveTwinReaction wow that's pretty sadge, my first game ever was Ruby but I was like 7 so I wasn't searching for Ttar lmao thanks for letting me know amigo
I feel like you should take a look at the Let's Go games and how their exclusive moves would theoretically affect the meta, I remember the best move video not including them and honestly they seem more like OP Fan moves than anything in an actual Pokemon game.
Oh I remember the D/P metagame somewhat. Mainly because that was the gen I really got back into Pokemon and started taking it a little more seriously. No Jirachi, but Togekiss with Air Slash was a pretty close second. It ALSO got Thunderwave for Paraflinch shenangians. I do also remember Electrivire being a popular choice though I couldn't tell you what sets people ran.
Electivire had a baller set with Expert Belt and Thunder Punch, Ice Punch and 2 more coverage options, typically among Fire Punch / Earthquake / fighting move. It was somewhat similar to the Electivire you'd get off Pokemon Battle Revolution on the Wii
@@ShadowTasos I remember Cross Chop, everyone's favorite move not named Stone Edge that never hit when you used it but always crit when your opponent did
i agree with mcmeghan, i remember pre-home sv pretty fondly overall. there was a lot of crazy stuff that needed to get banned like the ruin duo, palafin, roaring moon, baxcalibur and flutter mane, but once those mons left it was a pretty fun meta. kingambit, great tusk and gholdengo were in a league of their own but without all the terrifying new threats it was pretty reasonable to deal with them, so there was a ton of room to experiment with cool stuff. also all the titans like ttar, garchomp and heatran hadn't been wronged yet
7:30 So how do battle mechanics work when there was an in-generation update? Sometimes I battle my brother on his Diamond cartridge, I use Soul Silver, I use Hypnosis which was nerfed in Platinum or my Giratina-Origin, but I never checked how the interactions exactly work out, e.g. if Hypnosis has 60 or 70 accuracy
I was active during Platinum and HGSS and the idea of people feeling nostalgic for the Platinum metagame is bizarre when it's almost identical to the HGSS metagame. The biggest changes to OU were Scizor getting Bug Bite and Dragonite getting ExtremeSpeed, but neither of these had an immediate impact on the meta because the most popular Scizor set at the time didn't use Bug Bite and Dragonite was still mostly outclassed by the not-yet-banned Salamence. The most impactful changes were probably to UU with Scyther getting Bug Bite, Feraligatr getting Aqua Jet, and Aggron getting Head Smash, but that was basically it.
I could be imagining this as I never played the format myself, but I recall reading somewhere, perhaps a The Smog or Pokemon Online article, that talked about how Sceptile had its time in the sun in DP OU due to being a great wall breaker specifically against TTar/Gliscor/Vaporeon teams.
With regards to the question of "what do you call pre-Home and pre-DLC metas in Gen 8/9", you could co-opt the VGC parlance and refer to them by "Regulations". For example, Regulation A was the regional Pokedex minus Paradoxes and Legends.
All of this information about ADV 200 is wild to me. I was an avid player of Netbattle back in the day, and I remember Blissey being on almost EVERY team. The modern Gen 3 OU variations of Blissey were very rare back then; I remember forums declaring Seismic Toss, Aromatherapy, Softboiled/Wish, and Ice Beam/Thunderbolt to be the must-have set. SkarmBliss was the go-to team core, which is why Tyraniboah was such a mainstay back then. 101-HP subpunch for Blissey and Thunderbolt/Thunder/Flamethrower/Fire Blast for Skarm was the shit. If not Tyraniboah, DD 'Tar was usually mixed to cover Skarm. Haze users were so much more common back then, too, because BP chains were big in the meta (lol Ninjask). Weezing used to be the second most common choice for a physical wall due to WoW and Haze, plus it got Fire Blast for Skarm. CroCune is timeless and was a Pokemon I always hated facing. Nothing (besides maybe EV spreads) has changed about it. I remember one of the benchmarks of being "good" on NetBattle was knowing that you couldn't use the default HP Ice IVs; you had to manually set Attack and Defense to 30 each. The other IV combination for HP Ice involved dropping your SpA or Spe or something really counterproductive for a Special attacker. Jolteon is what I remember being a common special sweeper that ran HP Ice for BoltBeam coverage.
Yeah I remember I had never seen a single calm mind blissey in gen 3/4 back then, Suicune was always the calm mind guy. Blissey was so defensive back then and these days people run it Modest with max special attack and ofc calm mind often lol that was a shock to me. I don't think I even considered it back then.
SkarmBliss was of course everywhere in Gen 4 as well, but it's funny how the Blissey sets were completely different from both Gen 3 and modern Gen 4, I remember that Wish/Protect/Flamethrower/Toxic was very common (but nobody uses this in modern Gen 4)
Having played a lot of 200 back in the day, I'm really glad that adv is the way it is now. Always fun to play a few for nostalgia but damn I hate the lack op options
In XY OU Greninja had no access to Gunk Shot which is the movepool addition that really pushed it to broken level. Late XY was also interesting because cool stall breakers like Mew were extremely relevant and good :) love that meta
Actually, for my money, my most fond memories of playing Gen 8 and 9 are during the Isle of Armor and pre-DLC respectively and I'd love to revisit older iterations of OU in both cases. Pre-Home Gen 8 also would be interesting, since I believe Cinderace was still legal in that format and it'd be really interesting to see how long it'd take for it to get tested as would happen later in the gen.
I don't know how you do it but your recording evolved from smooth to seamless. It sounds like I'm in a room and you're having a conversation with me about obscure metagames.
my favorite lost meta is gen 8 before any dlc or home. it had hydragon, conkeldurr, rotom heat, agislash, kommo o, and seismatoad (among many other cool mons) be top tier in OU. this was also before wish teleport clef took over the meta in home. also before tapus, triple axel weavile, melmetal, and therians. honestly it was amazing and was the first time we’ve seen a huge reverse power creep, which i was a fan of.
I miss OG Gen 6 solely because it was the first generation I started playing competitive Pokemon. It has a special place in my heart. ORAS gen 6 is objectively better but nostalgia is so strong for me
![【High Rated DB】Labrynth vs Kashtira Fiendsmith [2685]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/H8A78yJke5Q/mqdefault.jpg)
ADV 200 Article:
www.smogon.com/rs/articles/200_metagame
Platinum OU Smogon thread:
www.smogon.com/forums/threads/dp-p-overused.3749618/
BW1 OU Smogon thread:
www.smogon.com/forums/threads/bw1-overused.3744853/
Cant beieve you didn't mention Pokémon RGB, that has the great distinction of scyther not having access to wing attack. smh
Dont hate on regice. I used him in singles wifi battles with s/v on my mono ice team. I had such fun with the silly guy, ev'd into def/attack, leftovers, tera ghost, tera blast, curse (which changes with tera), explosion and avalanche. Got some good kills with a curse setup under snow/aurora veil. Tera ghost lets you survive that last move, and no one expects the follow up tera ghost blast, or the explosion. So many lols one shotting flutter manes with ghost tera blast and other top tier mons. Of course curse boosted explosion too, so that could one shot most mons with 2 curses. (Rest of the team was: Alolan Ninetales, Chien-pao, Baxcalibur, Iron Bundle and Alolan Sandslash (hazards/hazard removal)/Kyurem when I decided I didnt care about hazards and just went hyper-o). That team did surprisingly well, and Regice won many games to pure rage quits lol.
Breaking news: Jimothy Cool has built a time machine for the sole purpose of playing Gen 4 OU without Jirachi Iron Head
I %100 believe that this was the inspiration behind this video, and I am here for it. iron head is a mistake for jirachi.
If only there was a way to remove a single move from a pokemon's arsenal without banning it entirely 🤔
This is huge news folks
@@usernametaken017that is far too complex an idea
@@usernametaken017 but it would put new players off the metagame if they had to comprehend such a confusing rule as a move not being allowed. Your average person is only clever enough to understand that a mon is banned
BW1 OU was FIRE. Loved when Terrakion was actually a threat
If everything is broken, then nothing is broken.
Still a threat
Another excellent video as always. I haven’t watched it yet
Unregistered HyperCam 2, god I feel old.
Mr. Hypercam II sends his regards.
@@floweringgoatboy2389Mafia reference
Unregistered Hypercam 2 🤝 Tutorials on Windows XP where someone types into notepad very slowly
@@yaziyothe only true expression of spiritual ecstasy
Have the cows arrived? When will the cows arrive?
Who can say?
I do believe in the Ning nang nong metagame the cows go bong, I believe this is a hidden ability that is only activated when contact is made.
I'm afraid the cows have gone home.
bull
@@jimothycool You mean, "Moo can say".
Sort of the inverse of the metas described here, RBY has a trade back meta where Pokémon have access to moves from GSC traded backwards. Alakazam gets the punches, Lax gets lovely kiss, etc.
Free amnesia hypno
GSC is just RBY dlc 🤔
The auto subtitles write it as ‘Doug Trio’. I hope Mr. Trio enjoys this content as much as I.
Famous OU threat, Douglas Trio.
The boys in the yard used to call him Dougie Threes.
Maybe he knows Mr. Zeef
@@fortidogi8620 I see you too have heard the legends of D3, The Mighty Doug
Dougbert & Sons Excavation, how can we help you today? (blocks the door)
There was a secret horse only metagame but this was silenced. This is not cool.
It's been said that HU has the highest concurrent player count
even more than furret used?
@@jimothycoolcool
That Diamond & Pearl DS footage filmed on a crappy camera really takes me back. I think there might still be a few videos of me playing on TH-cam somewhere.
God I'm old.
I remember the pre pokebank sun and moon meta
I forgot about Pokebank. This is insane.
Me too
The metagame where Alolan Muk is OU, of all things. This is truly insane.
Yeah, that deserves its own video.
Alolan marowak with lefties as kartana and feromosa counter
As we already know, my house was left in shambles by a +6 Earthquake from the Mach Pokémon Garchomp.
Gurdurr helped me rebuild my home after Jimothy Cool’s TH-cam channel reached 100 thousand subscribers, as agreed upon. However, we’re completely out of concrete. Gurdurr has agreed to evolve into Conkeldurr to overcome this inconvenience, but in order for the trade machine to function, Jimothy Cool must reach 105 thousand subscribers. Please help us, folks. Thank you.
This is insane.
Some people say Arceus is a Llama stuck in a fence. But his true form, Arceus-Origine, is actually a Horse wearing a Crown, as he is the true leader of the Horse Council. Arceus once created a format where every Horse had his Hayday. This is a metagame lost to time.
I was around 10 years old when battlenet was a thing, before gen 4 came out. The one thing i remember the most was that playing legendaries/mythicals was extremely frowned upon, so you couldn't used zapdos just out of principle lol
me pulling up with my articuno just to get cyberbullied and die to rocks
lol yeah, I remember secretly harboring so much resentment for my friend at the time, because he ran Zapdos on his team. Obviously Zapdos is a great OU Pokemon, and I respect it in hindsight, but I was such a Karen player back then that it didn't matter to me.
@@usernametaken017 >before Gen 4 came out
@@CantusTropus me pulling up with my entei just to get cyberbullied and die to spikes
I remember this too. I miss being that young and not in the know
Never forget Japanese Red and Green with 90% accurate 30% freeze chance Blizzard
Articuno's only good outing.
@@a-s-greigatleast they did something in vgc
Gen 9 Pre-home was really fun because you’d get great usage out of a lot of the new pokemon like the Paldean Tauros, Skeledirge and Quaquaval had a larger impact, defensive options like Clodsire and Toedscruel (sleep was less problematic then). The pool of pokemon felt pretty healthy and once all the overbearing pokemon like Fluttermane/Bundle/Chi-Yu/Chien Pao/Shed tail/Espathra were removed, you began to see a really unique format that was pretty fun.
i miss it
Yeah I miss my pre home balance team with Clodsire :( I've had no real desire to revisit the metagame post DLCs knowing I'd have to start team building from scratch again
I played original DP semi-competitive wi fi matches on a forum in early 2008. Scisor getting Bullet Punch next year blew our minds!
Jirachi without Iron Head is like a demon with no horns.
I’m surprised there hasn’t been a meta game of Gen 5 that replicates Gen 1, a meta game where you can ONLY use the Gen 5 Pokemon
My favorite lost metagame (and also my first) was Gen 6 OU Pre-pokebank. Back when it was just the pokemon available in game in X/Y might have been the only time Mega-Pinser was actually viable
This reminds me of the state of online multiplayer games now. In some ways the games we played even a year ago no longer exist, overwritten by years of patches and updates. Most infamous example is Overwatch 2. The goal of the patches isn't necessarily to improve the game but to maintain interest; if you feel the game is in a really good spot it's still inevitable that balance will be upset. I'm glad these fan organised scenes are more resilient, even if some moments are lost to time. Like Ludicolos in the rain.
I still remember the gen 8 leaked dlc meta (where the leak turned out to be fake, but everyone assumed it was real), where you had things like Rising Voltage + Close Combat Tapu Koko, and other broken stuff. It was mostly used in draft league communities, and I believe there was a showdown ladder of it for a bit
Welcome back dream world metagame
Don’t forget about the BDSP OU where Pursuit doesn’t exist. Because of that Gengar had to be banned for being too centralizing. Ultimately it was abandoned for being a lesser Gen 4 meta but it has some significant differences.
That meta was garb. Says alot how people abandoned it despite it being fairly new
@ Not disagreeing with you there… but it was forgotten, so I’d hoped it’d be mentioned.
Funiest part about pre dlc gen 9 is that lumineon got banned from zu
Video suggestion: talk about team preview and its consequences. Examples of dedicated leads pre-team preview, Zoroark and the shake up in gen 5 and maybe even speculate on what the game would be like today if team preview didn't exist.
Surely, BKC must be included in a video like this if it hasn't been done already.
Gen 5 without the Therians? Sign me up.
the last time we had a pokemon world without landorus-T. The Mayan's predicted this.
@@solemnstar2373 the last time we had a world without lando-t would be pre-dlc gen 8, no?
@hatyyyLando wasn't around at the beginning of gen 9
Pre-home Gen 8 was actually a very interesting metagame. Especially interesting because it went through two phases: pre-Dracovish and post-Dracovish. Dynamax was also unbanned for a good while.
Seismitoad being an OU staple was really cool, and overall it allowed for some cool teambuilding
at last i finally make it into a jimothy cool video, and my gameplay is there for a whole 2m30s, i feel honored.
Every Muk has its Monday, homie
Its not an “earlier version” of the metagame per se but back in early Gen 7 before Pokemon Bank was compatible with SM, there was a “Pre-Bank” OU. The reason why it isn’t necessarily an older version is because everything that was going to be available when Bank came out was already known, so there were two OU ladders that co-existed instead, and from the start “Pokebank OU” was recognized as the official metagame. The Pre-Bank ladder was removed two months later.
That meta was completely different to modern USUM. Pokemon like Tapu Koko and Pheromosa (who was still legal) were really strong, and it led to Alolan-Marowak being the best mon in the format.
Surprised that tradeback RBY wasn't mentioned at all, considering it has pretty big sweeping changes on the RBY meta. Namely, Persian becomes the fastest sleeper in the tier gaining Hypnosis, Snorlax gets Lovely Kiss as a sleeping option, Gengar, Alakazam and Hypno get the elemental punches (& Hypno gets Amnesia on top of that). Lower tier Pokemon like Electabuzz and the Nidos also gain massive buffs from it.
There is one other lost metagame I can think of which is interesting though I don't know how popular it is so I don't know it is even lost. I believe it's called "Orre Colosseum Doubles"
It's the very first iteration of what would become the currently used VGC rules. It comes from Pokemon XD Gale of Darkness's Orre Colosseum and uses the following rules.
Format: Double battle
Team Preview is available
Bring 6 pokemon, choose 4 of the 6 you bring.
Mewtwo, Mew, Lugia, Ho-oh, Celebi, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Jirachi and Deoxys are banned
I don't remember whether the Orre Colosseum rules uses Sleep or Item clause but I think they do.
shoutouts to reverend, that guy is one of the funniest guys ever
I wish he'd come back from buying milk
One of the greatest things about the competitive singles community, is their perseveration of older Pokémon meta games.
There are strong communities for every single generation of overused
With active tournament scenes, and even a ranked ladder on Pokemon showdown
with active tournament scenes and even a ranked ladder on pokemon showdown
The fact that I can queue up a competitive Gen one Pokémon game whenever I want for free is pretty awesome.
The fact that I can queue up a competitive gen 1 pokemon game whenever I want for free is pretty awesome.
One of the greatest things about the competitive singles community, is their preservation of older pokemon metagames.
oh shit that's funny you should make this joke on every one of Jim's videos
@@sharktamer There are strong communities for every single generation of OverUsed.
Hearing about Gen 6 ORAS roster additions is so nostalgic...
Christmas in 2028 will coincide with Muk Monday, folks
This is insane
13:00 classic Stone Miss. Some things never change.
There's something so fnnt about jimmy reading the svript and not acknologing the horrors going on in the footage
The Hypnosis buff in D/P is actually really big. It goes from a 16% chance of it missing twice in a row down to 9% which is only a 7% difference but idk it going from over 15 to sub 10 is pretty noticeable it is almost double the rate.
4:14 Sometimes we are our own greatest enemy.
Weavile did get Icicle Crash in XY... as an egg move. The issue is that Weavile requires TM/Tutor for Knock Off, so for a year, Icicle Crash + Knock Off was an illegal set.❤
am i missing something
what's preventing you from just saving a TM or using a tutor for knock off after breeding icicle crash
Icicle crash wasn’t available as an egg move to weavile until XY and there were no move tutors for knock off until ORAS. You could bring a weavile from Gen 4/5 with knock off but if you bred it again to get icicle crash it would lose knock off
@edfreak9001 knock off isn't a TM until Gen 9 so that isn't relevant. I believe they were incompatible because icicle crash became available as an egg move in gen 6, but there were no knock off tutors in XY. for this reason knock off was available through transfer, or icicle crash was available by breeding, but they weren't obtainable together until new tutors were added
@@rykermeinel6153 ahhhhh okay that makes sense thank you
Wish that were still the case today
One of my favorite things about the RS200 metagame is how unevolved Trapinch is viable
This is something that's pretty interesting about VGC, especially in recent years where the format changes every 3 or so months. There are formats from early SwSh and SV where the player base hadn't quite figured a lot of stuff out, so metagames didn't have a lot of time to fully develop. The VGC Room on Showdown helps with this by occasionally hosting legacy formats, and I really think some of the more recent formats (2018 onward) are being kept alive and developed by VGC players, which is pretty cool
Gen 6 Nu will always have my heart
wow, me too :') shoutout Haydunn
Gen 6 NU and PU were the formats I've enjoyed the most. Every team was different, especially on lower ELOs
Gen IV DP was my first serious gen when I began playing on Shoddy Battle. I personally think it was a much healthier metagame than when Platinum was around. Latias was banned, No Iron Head on Jirachi, Salamence didn't have Outrage access, no Rotom-A (which is a huge reason rapid spin isn't viable in gen 4), no rampant Knock Off access (Clefable included), no rampant trick access, much more limited Sucker Punch access (unfortunately Dug still gets it).
You do lose bullet punch Scizor and have to deal with 70% accuracy hypnosis Gengar, but sacrifices have to be made.
This videos are so good!!. I am lerning so mutch intresting stuff about pokemon that no one talks about. THANKS JIMY
Milotic w/ 70% Hypnosis was a problem in DP OU lol.
I actually thoroughly enjoyed the weather wars of Gen 5 so I'm glad there's still a metagame around where you can weather war to your heart's content, so for that reason I'll say the BW metagame is my favorite among these.
But I do have to say I agree with McMeghan that the Gen 9 meta felt better before Home/DLC. Sure, there being fewer Pokemon meant that the stronger ones would dominate more, so teams were a little more same-y. But at the same time, the weaker dudes didn't have quite as many mons that just straight up did their thing but better, so you could have mons like Skeledirge put more work in, and even memey things like Arboliva and Bellibolt could do... something. It just feels good to use new mons, while with Home support you go back to using the same dudes that dominated past gens which just isn't as exciting and makes each generation feel more samey. Like if the Tapus and UBs were in SV we'd honestly be having a metagame that's 80% the same as Gen 8 plus Tera, which was almost banned anyway lol.
I absolutely love exploring these obscure metagames, its extremely interesting. Thank you for covering these!
Rusa/200 was actually my favorite format growing up
Skarm/mag is such a key part of the format, that ended up winning a couple important tournament games with a hp ground skarm that had enough speed evs to outspeed basically every magneton. You still had to predict it on the switch in since it was a 2shot, but it definitely worked a couple times until people saw it.
"regice can substitute and calm mind against regice"
My favorite Pokemon format is the Muk Monday format where you can only use Muk, and it is always played on Mondays.
And I thought I was tripping thinking "wait, didn't hypnosis have 70 accuracy?"
The horse metagame has been a thing since gen 1, yet only until recently it regained some popularity due to some tournaments.
The metagame "Furret Used" has not been lost to time. In fact, it is one of the most famous and heavily studied metagames.
Original Gen 1 OU with Blizzard having 30% Freeze Chance seems the most insane, folks.
Gen 5 Genesect metagame was the most cursed
it's kind of a shame he was that strong to me because he's really cool imo
@lukemacinnes5124 it's ok, we have Scizor I guess?? 😅
I forgot grumpig learns substitute before it was a TM and had to breed to get it
Grumpig is my favorite pokemon so I clicked on this as soon as it came up in my feed.
That Bw1 discussion was such a huge hit of nostalgia! That was my most played competitive gen when it was current and I HATE how much they completely changed it these days.
I might go play the older one, cheers.
I played a few tournaments for this in 2024, got a couple of finals. This is a great video, but a few comments.
Regice is not just the best special wall, but the best dder check too. A recentish development is hp bug regice for alakazam and grumpig.
It's really fun because there no twave, no slide spam, no v5, and pinch berries aren't even a thing despite no sand.
1:15 i always love to see a netbattle throwback
4:14 regice can substitute in front of regice makers sense
Hi, the Gen 4 Retro VGC community do sometimes play with DP mechanics, or more specifically PBR mechanics with 70% accurate hypnosis (as well as team preview). We do this on the dawn showdown side server, which kindly implemented that mechanics change as a clause for us.
So if anyone wanted to play DP singles on simulator, the dawn side server is an option. Of course cartridge is also there but most people can't do that nowadays.
Hey, Jimmy Othy, Happy Trumbeak Tuesday! Will you be taking part?
Be honest, how many people play the actual official Gen 1 and 2 formats? The Cups for Gen 1 and 2 and the Colosseums and Battle Tower Rules for 3.
i kinda miss bdsp doubles. i had some fun teams featuring many obscure pokemon like lantern, drapion, houndoom and cherrim
ah. this is bringing back some long-lost memories of playing on the RSbot IRC channel right at the dawn of gen 3, and dealing with the surprisingly common pick of choice band ninjask. good times. or, times, at least
I can see people returning occasionally to VGC regulation A (formerly known as Series 1), which was one of the pre-Home formats and is generally remembered fondly.
I played pokemon all my life, but didn't start learning until gen 6 early x and y playing in facebook gyms monotype format, I played mono normal and surprised challengers who brought scizor as a hard counter with special sweeper persian using technician, hp fire, swift, icy wind and nasty plot, rock climb tauros was also crazy and was hard for people to counter, but the funniest thing I did was use eviolite fletchling to set tailwind, stall with gale wing roost and just for shits and giggles toxic and quick guard, self destruct snorlax wasn't something challengers saw coming either
3:02 what do you mean Ttar not setting sand? Ttar had Sand Stream since R/S
You couldn't get Tyranitar in R/S, I think you could get one from Colosseum, FR/LG and Emerald but not the originals
@LiveTwinReaction wow that's pretty sadge, my first game ever was Ruby but I was like 7 so I wasn't searching for Ttar lmao thanks for letting me know amigo
I miss the shuck cup. A format consisting of only Shuckle and anything Shuckle related (perhaps some berry juice). Sad!
I feel like you should take a look at the Let's Go games and how their exclusive moves would theoretically affect the meta, I remember the best move video not including them and honestly they seem more like OP Fan moves than anything in an actual Pokemon game.
Oh I remember the D/P metagame somewhat. Mainly because that was the gen I really got back into Pokemon and started taking it a little more seriously.
No Jirachi, but Togekiss with Air Slash was a pretty close second. It ALSO got Thunderwave for Paraflinch shenangians. I do also remember Electrivire being a popular choice though I couldn't tell you what sets people ran.
Electivire had a baller set with Expert Belt and Thunder Punch, Ice Punch and 2 more coverage options, typically among Fire Punch / Earthquake / fighting move. It was somewhat similar to the Electivire you'd get off Pokemon Battle Revolution on the Wii
@@ShadowTasos I remember Cross Chop, everyone's favorite move not named Stone Edge that never hit when you used it but always crit when your opponent did
@@ItRhymesWith Yep, thankfully Electivire could also learn Brick Break so you didn't have to gamble though the extra power on Cross Chop is nice
Idk what it is but your cadence and diction are really on point this vid
I still remember the netbattles times! With sleep talk everywhere! I would pay to play that again.
i agree with mcmeghan, i remember pre-home sv pretty fondly overall. there was a lot of crazy stuff that needed to get banned like the ruin duo, palafin, roaring moon, baxcalibur and flutter mane, but once those mons left it was a pretty fun meta. kingambit, great tusk and gholdengo were in a league of their own but without all the terrifying new threats it was pretty reasonable to deal with them, so there was a ton of room to experiment with cool stuff. also all the titans like ttar, garchomp and heatran hadn't been wronged yet
7:30 So how do battle mechanics work when there was an in-generation update? Sometimes I battle my brother on his Diamond cartridge, I use Soul Silver, I use Hypnosis which was nerfed in Platinum or my Giratina-Origin, but I never checked how the interactions exactly work out, e.g. if Hypnosis has 60 or 70 accuracy
I was active during Platinum and HGSS and the idea of people feeling nostalgic for the Platinum metagame is bizarre when it's almost identical to the HGSS metagame. The biggest changes to OU were Scizor getting Bug Bite and Dragonite getting ExtremeSpeed, but neither of these had an immediate impact on the meta because the most popular Scizor set at the time didn't use Bug Bite and Dragonite was still mostly outclassed by the not-yet-banned Salamence. The most impactful changes were probably to UU with Scyther getting Bug Bite, Feraligatr getting Aqua Jet, and Aggron getting Head Smash, but that was basically it.
bdsp ou wasnt even mentioned
I could be imagining this as I never played the format myself, but I recall reading somewhere, perhaps a The Smog or Pokemon Online article, that talked about how Sceptile had its time in the sun in DP OU due to being a great wall breaker specifically against TTar/Gliscor/Vaporeon teams.
I really liked the brief moment when gen 8 was released simply because how crazy it was with dynamax and G-Darmanitan being legal
Generation 1 prior to tradebacks
With regards to the question of "what do you call pre-Home and pre-DLC metas in Gen 8/9", you could co-opt the VGC parlance and refer to them by "Regulations". For example, Regulation A was the regional Pokedex minus Paradoxes and Legends.
i first learned about the world of competitive pokemon/showdown as well as ev training in xy/pre-oras! that was a fun time in my memory
Shoddy battle cameo!! Then pokemon online, then smogon made their own. Good times
11:52 you misspoke and say doesn’t reset but you mean it does reset your sleep counter.
All of this information about ADV 200 is wild to me. I was an avid player of Netbattle back in the day, and I remember Blissey being on almost EVERY team. The modern Gen 3 OU variations of Blissey were very rare back then; I remember forums declaring Seismic Toss, Aromatherapy, Softboiled/Wish, and Ice Beam/Thunderbolt to be the must-have set. SkarmBliss was the go-to team core, which is why Tyraniboah was such a mainstay back then. 101-HP subpunch for Blissey and Thunderbolt/Thunder/Flamethrower/Fire Blast for Skarm was the shit. If not Tyraniboah, DD 'Tar was usually mixed to cover Skarm.
Haze users were so much more common back then, too, because BP chains were big in the meta (lol Ninjask). Weezing used to be the second most common choice for a physical wall due to WoW and Haze, plus it got Fire Blast for Skarm.
CroCune is timeless and was a Pokemon I always hated facing. Nothing (besides maybe EV spreads) has changed about it.
I remember one of the benchmarks of being "good" on NetBattle was knowing that you couldn't use the default HP Ice IVs; you had to manually set Attack and Defense to 30 each. The other IV combination for HP Ice involved dropping your SpA or Spe or something really counterproductive for a Special attacker. Jolteon is what I remember being a common special sweeper that ran HP Ice for BoltBeam coverage.
Yeah I remember I had never seen a single calm mind blissey in gen 3/4 back then, Suicune was always the calm mind guy. Blissey was so defensive back then and these days people run it Modest with max special attack and ofc calm mind often lol that was a shock to me. I don't think I even considered it back then.
SkarmBliss was of course everywhere in Gen 4 as well, but it's funny how the Blissey sets were completely different from both Gen 3 and modern Gen 4, I remember that Wish/Protect/Flamethrower/Toxic was very common (but nobody uses this in modern Gen 4)
I remember playing Pokémon Diamond and Pearl before the release of Platinum, and the Black and White metagame was BRUTAL.
Having played a lot of 200 back in the day, I'm really glad that adv is the way it is now. Always fun to play a few for nostalgia but damn I hate the lack op options
In XY OU Greninja had no access to Gunk Shot which is the movepool addition that really pushed it to broken level. Late XY was also interesting because cool stall breakers like Mew were extremely relevant and good :) love that meta
Actually, for my money, my most fond memories of playing Gen 8 and 9 are during the Isle of Armor and pre-DLC respectively and I'd love to revisit older iterations of OU in both cases. Pre-Home Gen 8 also would be interesting, since I believe Cinderace was still legal in that format and it'd be really interesting to see how long it'd take for it to get tested as would happen later in the gen.
I loved so much Sun/Moon OU before Pokebank. You had things like Minior, Decidueye, Golisopod and Incineroar, it was so much fun.
I don't know how you do it but your recording evolved from smooth to seamless. It sounds like I'm in a room and you're having a conversation with me about obscure metagames.
my favorite lost meta is gen 8 before any dlc or home. it had hydragon, conkeldurr, rotom heat, agislash, kommo o, and seismatoad (among many other cool mons) be top tier in OU. this was also before wish teleport clef took over the meta in home. also before tapus, triple axel weavile, melmetal, and therians. honestly it was amazing and was the first time we’ve seen a huge reverse power creep, which i was a fan of.
Happy Togekiss Tuesday; may your day be full of kindness and blessings. 🥚🧚♂️
Thanks!
I've always thought it would be cool for the rotating OMs to include some of these Alternate OUs
Gen 6 XY OU was some of the most fun i had playing pokemon.
I miss OG Gen 6 solely because it was the first generation I started playing competitive Pokemon. It has a special place in my heart. ORAS gen 6 is objectively better but nostalgia is so strong for me
Gen 4 DP OU also bringing us "InTimiDate!" Sound bites