Blaine I love how put your videos together, makes it super interesting to watch. I enjoy this topic because there will always be a place for it. It's true, story and feeling trumps pixels and clean images but damn, sometimes nerding out like this is exactly what you need. Thanks man, you deserve more love!
I usually have a technical lut with -1 stop active. If exposed correctly i‘m out of the noisefloor and can just pull it back in davinci. This works 90% of the time also for hectic scenarios. Your way is definitely the best. Giving the sensor as much light as possible is so important. Cullen Kelly has a comparrison between different shots like that comparing noise levels. He comes to the same conclusion. Best image that way. Thank you🙏🏻 this channel is a gem❤️
Hey thank you! Having the -1 on there is a smart move, again as long as you’re not clipping sensor. I think especially with stuff going to web, having super clean source footage helps, until web compression gets better and everyone has perfect film grain on everything.
My understand is: This technique is essentially what ISO is for in camera. If you had shot these at 160 iso, then you would have "technically" over exposed and shifted your dynamic range. Therefor; creating a cleaner image. This seems to be even more important to utilize when shooting with cheaper sensors to dictate the look you're looking for. With the Arri Alev 3 sensor, you have so much Dynamic range and latitude that you can easily play within a large portion of that dynamic range to create a cleaner image in many scenarios where extra highlight retention isn't needed. Big fan of your work, keep them coming!
hey thanks. I have a video coming soon.. maybe tomorrow, maybe Monday, that dives into the wild world of ISO and how changing the Iso differs than what I am doing here. in certain scenarios it is fine, and yes that is what ISO is for, and some cameras do it different than other cameras. gonna get into it in the next video.
Bro I love the way you at it. It encourages me to bring in life into my edits. This video is pretty good and informative. Keep on doing this man. I like this.
Men, this info its really worth it! I love the way you explain this concepts, its really difficult for people who are start on videography how need to expose LOG correctly, thx for this gem 🤓👍🏽
I accidentally did this earlier this year. We were shooting outdoors middle of day on location and our ND filters were left behind so we only had the internal ND's in camera, but they only went to 1.8. I shot at a lower ISO to compensate, I then pushed the ISO in post and lowered the exposer on the log wheels and was very happy with the results... This is something I've done for years while shooting night or dark scenes, but first time doing it on a bright scene.
This is how I'd mostly shoot when I was using Sonys. On Canons I learned to be quite cautious when using this method. I found that their sensors handle highlights quite differently and can't be pulled back from highlights as well (especially if anything in your scene crosses the line, even slightly, into clipping). In shadows though, the Canon C70 has had the best shadow recovery I've ever seen. On Blackmagics, so far this method had worked well enough, as long as I'm shooting with the native ISOs. I'll have a play with this technique on my Panasonics. Keep up the good work mate! I appreciate it when content creators share their findings with others like this.
hey thanks so much. love doing tests.. that's why I started TH-cam. good to know about the canon, all of them perform a little different. most important is just to make sure you are not clipping and to set your exposure tools in a place that won't let you mess it up!
@@BlaineWestropp1 Knowing your camera I've found is a big key. I've learned to take the time for plenty of tests before using gear on a shoot. Recently I used the Zhongyi Mitakon MFT kit with my BMPCC4K for a short film shoot. Those lenses I should have tested more before hand, too much character and way too soft (and I usually look for those things! Haha). You're doing a solid job mate. Keep up the great work!
Is that The Place Beyond the Pines playing in the bg? I love that opening tracking shot following Gosling - Sean Bobbitt did that entire shot on the shoulder.
makes total sense! do you think the same process could be done using FCP instead of resolve? I've done in both but the results always look better in resolve. perhaps i'm not doing something right in FCP
sup Ribsy! just watched your video with Paulie, loved every second of it. I havent used Final Cut in a minute but.. I know in premiere for example the exposure slider is useless. but.. you can definitely bring down the exposure in FCP. Does it look the same as reducing exposure in camera, I am not sure. also, I dont always reduce exposure using mapped HDR wheels, sometimes I move it around in the curves, so it doesn't always have to be accurate in my opinion.
Hi Blaine, I'm testing out the mini LF tomorrow or Friday for a shoot and would like to test this method out as it is a night shoot and would like to get the cleanest image possible. Can you explain a little more please? I'm not that technical so this kind of went over my head. Do you use the false color checker on the Rec 709 image or the Log image? The way you create the technical LUT is with a CST and then mapped HDR wheels and export a 65 cube for each stop and then transfer that to the camera? How can I make sure that nothing will be clipping when I get it in color?
Hi. For a night shoot and cleanest image I would just lower your EI. For low light scenes I would use the false color based on the 709 image. I can explain why if you need, but it’ll protect you more for low light stuff, where if you used it on the log image you may think you have more exposure than you do (this is for low light scenes). Also for low light I would just stick to that method above, over using exp comp luts. But definitely test it out. If you need the LUTs, DM on ig. You can make them but you do not use a CST, and a 33 will do, and then it needs to be converted to an .AML file. Let me know if you need further clarification.
Hey! Great video! How would this apply in a low contrast low light scenario where there is equal shadow and equal light on the subject sitting in a room? (I think your conclusion part of the video where you are talking might be a good example) does exposing to the right without clipping highlights still work? Or expose just enough according to the scene? Meaning if the scene is underexposed by Nature keep the camera metering to underexposed too.
Hey thanks! All of this effort is just to lower the noise. In a low light low con scene you could just shoot at a lower ISO (which is in a way the same as over exposing, but the reduction is baked in). I also want minimal noise when uploading to web bc noise does not do well on web so that’s why I’ll typically record very bright, in any scenario, then bring it down to squash that noise! If I want a scene to be under exposed, and look dark in the final product, I will still over expose and just crank it down in post.
Fantastic as always. Worth noting that HDR wheels are great to adjust exposure as they do not affect colour saturation in the same way that colour wheels do. Also maybe you can clarify how to use false colour properly. I generally use zebras for clipping and setting a skin tone or middle grey say at 50 ire. In camera I monitor the log with false colour as a check find the patterns to confusing and vague for ratios and exposure in skin. I usually use waveforms for fine adjustment. Just not sure i trust them for clipping?! but in post i use FC to match general tone against reference shots and make sure i am keeping pink grey green in faces. I have always thought false colour to be insanely hard to read and poorly designed with the use of so many greys but i get why it does that. I guess EL zone makes sense but i have never understood why that hasn’t been the default previously. I have no idea but the ansel adams zones make a lot of sense and i guess i had always assumed that false color was based on that? Just never understood the choice of colours. Systems where you can choose and customise the FC colours like in da vinci are great but would be great to have that kind of flexibility in camera. Im sure high end monitors can do this but just never noticed or had time to customise a false colour set up on on camera monitor. Thanks so much as always for a totally complete and timely video.
I’m shooting on an Amira. It’s nearly impossible to blow out the highlights with an arri sensor, so maybe I should actually overexpose in some situations with lots of shadows. Do you also do this method, when you drop of the footage to a production house? Btw Derek cianfrance movies are so good. Blue valentine is another favorite of mine.
Hahah I love it. I was shooting in the middle of the day (overcast) wide open, at 360 degree shutter and couldn’t clip it 😂. Even when the image on camera is looking wildly hot, you’re good. Hard to mess it up. If you’re dropping at a color facility I would 100% give them bright footage. If you’re dropping at a post house that doesn’t specialize in color and you won’t have a hand in the color, I’d be more careful. But it is as simple as an email with an explanation. Also, love this movie. Haven’t seen blue valentine. Adding to the list.
Absolutely Loving the content Blaine! you mention in the description that you have the TLUTs available? Would you happen to have them for C-Log2 & 3? Currently shooting on a Canon C70 and im dumbfounded at how difficult it is to simply find the (canon original 709) conversion LUTs- but also I feel im a little unsure as to how much I should 'pull back' that HDR wheel to get a proper 1-Stop translation in reduction. Long story short; if you have Canon Log Technical LUTs that'd be a great help! :D
Possibly a stupid question, but does this same technique work this well on something like a Fuji xt3 shooting in log? Using an Arri sort of makes me wonder if this stuff is possible because of the quality of camera being used, or if its usable regardless of what camera is doing it - so long as you're in log?
In the video I took it to the extreme by exposing JUST under clip. Some scenarios can benefit from this, some scenarios can benefit from just exposing a little brighter. Just don’t clip your highlights and you’ll be good. Test it out on your camera, while I’m sure it will be fine, I haven’t used the Fuji xt3!
Great cocept to share. I've been playing with this for the past few years after listening to steve yedlins two presentations. You mentioned that you're hesitant to change the ISO to compensate. Why is that? Also, I use zebras to achieve this which makes things super fast and almost automatic feeling. Sometimes I'll let small bokeh balls and specular highlights without detail clip to safe shadows.
I’m fine with speculars clipping. I like to work between 640 and 1600. My follow up video to this video gets a little more into why. It’s called “iso is complicated”
What monitor do u use as reference monitor for DOP work on set? Maybe something around10-15 inches? SmallHD MON-CINE-13 is great, but maybe you could suggest any cheaper model?
on most sets I use my personal smallHD cine7 regardless of the camera I am using. oftentimes I will bring the focus7 to walk around with (which receives wireless feed from cine7). For big monitor I prefer older Sony and Flanders. some of the new monitors look crazy to me and you have to stand directly in front of it or the image looks weird. bigger smallhd monitors are good too. are you trying to buy one or rent one? usually the big monitor is rented, but I do have one at home I use. bringing around big monitors is just a little cumbersome and the rental cost is fairly low.
I'm searching one to buy. I can rent and always do rent monitors ofc, but even with really good rentals with calibrated monitors I cant get enough stability in my viewing experience. Even though most of the time I work with Alexas, sometimes I need to work with Sony Venice or Red Raptor (that gives a bit strange Rec709 to my taste compoared to Alexas. With Alexas I view almost the same psyhologically on set and on color grading) - but every time there is a different camera, even if it's the same model - so I need to have some stable point of reference that I can plug to any rented camera. Ofc, there are plenty of changing viewing factors, that are hard to keep stable from day to day, but owning the monitor makes it a little easier. Why I'm thinking towards more then 7"? Cuz I had pretty cool experience with Liliput A12 12"- watching experience is somewhat different from 7" - I can see my frame in more details, that I can't judge on 7". For a bit offtopic about not old good monitors - I experienced new TVLogic LVM-171S - and it's very good, but It's table/stand monitor ofc. @BlaineWestropp1
Always curious if you use false colors on rec709 technical lut or on the log. For context I use the fx3 and expose and monitor with the leeming luts which are ETTR based luts.
I set up different exposure tools for different jobs. Lately, I’ve been having the false colors based on the log image on Alexa. For Sony I always put a 94% zebra on, which is where the log image clips. Having exposure tools based on the log image is helpful sometimes, but sometimes it’s good to have them based on the 709, like in low light scenes. In low light scenes you don’t want to have to bring up your exposure in post, and if you’re monitoring exposure on the log image you may think you’re getting more exposure than you are. Day exterior in the sun, monitor exposure on the log image in my opinion. Lots of different scenarios and techniques. Sometimes outside I’ll only have zebras.
Can you explain the hdr wheels mapping thing? I am shooting slog3… so would I map the wheels to slog3 and adjust global exposure under a rec709 lut? Does the mapping actually make it so that the exposure is photometric? Or are the hdr wheels photometric already?
Thanks for the info, since you might not know how many stops over you'll be shooting on a particular full day shoot with multiple lighting situations, do you pre-load your monitor with multiple technical LUTS for previewing at lower stops. For example would you load a -1, -2, -3 , and -4 stop LUTS all installed into the monitor for previewing for that days shoot?
@@BlaineWestropp1 Hi Blaine, thank you for this channel...I'm learning so much from you. Did you actually create these 5 "technical" luts with minus stops or did you find them somewhere else. If you created them, I would love to know how to do that myself accurately for the Alexa and what program to use. Thanks
All hail Blaine the camera king. Honestly so glad I found your channel, I've honestly learnt more from you than any university degree, without the youtuber bullshit hah
Great Video! Thank you for the tutorial. I was dead set against ETTR originally. But your video has urged me to experiment. I shoot with BMPCC4K camera, do you have a technical camera LUT for that?
thank you! definitely experiment. I have done the exact experiment in this video many times in different scenarios over the years, this is just the first time ive posted it. yes I have technical luts for most cameras.
Hi Blaine, great video. I assume this only works when shooting in log right? Also, does Premiere Pro have an equivalent tool like the HDR wheels from resolve?
Hey thanks! Well, technically you can expose any type of image any way you want. So if you are shooting with a camera that is recording rec709 you can still expose it a little brighter as long as you don’t clip the highlights. Also, in premiere I use the curves to adjust the exposure. I stay far away from the exposure slider.
so im only building a lighting/filming setup for my very dark and mostly black painted "Studio" I go with a Sony FX30+Sony 20mm lense. With Base ISO 800 it looks much better but i will loose to much informations, so better if i go with Base ISO 2500? ISO 800 looks pretty right but 2500 realy is very brigh
I prefer to shoot at the lower base and light accordingly, but in the end, whatever looks better may be the right move. Also, in general if you feed the sensor a lot of light, you will have a cleaner image, whether shooting a lower iso or lowering the exposure in post
great question. I think some stuff looks cool in HDR. like lizards and fruit. but overall HDR is not something that is in my workflow at the moment. that may change. we will see. have you been experimenting with it?
@@BlaineWestropp1 I have and so far the biggest issue is depending on which flavor of HDR you choose, things change. For instance doing HLG, should gracefully fall into the SDR band when playing back HDR content on a display that can’t support it, but it always mixed results, hit or miss. For PQ, forget about it. PQ is much butter for impact when watching on a display that has support for it, but when it’s not supported, there’s no backwards compatibility so usually on an sdr display it looks horrible. TH-cam has a thing that allows you to create an SDR Rec 709 Lut for your final PQ or HLG HDR grade and then let you upload it with your video, but I haven’t tried it yet. Overall though, HDR definitely looks amazing and I’m tempted to use it, just worried about compatibility.
Oh btw do arris have any special highlight recovery settings say as the kinefinity cameras do. I had never noticed and i am not an arri owner. And can someone please explain red traffic lights and why they got rid of clipping. I understand the idea behind the rgb channel but don’t understand what we are then supposed to do to adjust exposure in terms of separate rgb channels?! Am i missing something? I feel like i must be. Thx.
you do not make specific adjustments to RGB channels on a red camera. but certain color channels will clip before other channels, so its just showing you that. if you just make sure the bars aren't too high you'll be fine. check the log image. do tests. also I dont know about the highlight recovery on the kinefinity so I can't speak to that. there's no highlight recovery button on an Alexa though.
but with such method, don't you remove the detail with the highlights? I am doing the -1 step compensation LUT on my sony a7-iv, would you do more like +1.7 or +2?
If the highlights are not clipped, you are good. I assume you are overexposing your camera to 1.7 on the meter, and have a -1 LUT so it looks normal on screen. This is fine to do, and I know a lot of people do this on the Sony cams. As long as you aren’t blowing out your highlights you should be good.
@@BlaineWestropp1 I just have -1 LUT so I need to go +1 to make it look good. But now after your video I am thinking maybe I should go even higher like +2. You are on Arri so you are safe with +4 probably but with Sony I don't know if +2 wouldnt be too high already. thanks for the info!
@@RafalGendarz ah! I see what you mean. Id keep the -1 and just let your exposure go up a little. The exposure comp luts don’t need to match exactly. If you want a -1.5 or -2.. I have created them. Let me know.
@@BlaineWestropp1 Thanks! I put some fuji lut on them from Cullen Kelly and also the version with the Exposure map from Mono Nodes so I can do them by myself. Will try 1.5 and 2 ver
Cool! Let me know if you have any issues and make sure to test it out before doing it on a project as +2 on the Sony meter can be a dangerous spot to live in in certain scenarios.
Thank you for this explanation. I've been using EL Zone lately with my Sony and Reds. It would be awesome if I could record those EL Zone's stop values and use it later in post. Might have to do screen shots of the monitor... Thanks again for all these awesome videos you make!
3:20 please tell this info to so many new DPs I know that shoot tight shots on long lenses at like a 1.4-4. I try to push for an 8 or deeper and they don’t listen, I’m a 1st AC. It’s like you want this whole thing in focus right? Glad to see someone who knows what they’re doing for product lol good work man
You can use CineEI, it will do it for you automagically, just choose s-log3 as lut, and now iso wheel will change exposure of your lut, instead of actual iso, and it will show amount of stops of dr left above middle gray. And on your monitor you can use any lut you like.
Giving this a bit more thought. Would you still use this method if there were no shadows in the scene? Or don't care about the shadows? Example- a scenic view of a hill top at 12pm with no cloud coverage? Assuming I don't care about any shadows but am concerned with highlights only, would you still overexpose like this? Thanks!
great question. depends what my end goal is. maybe id expose a little hot, and pull down. but.. I dont always overexpose, whenever im outside im just shooting by eye. for more technical footage like product stuff, that's where I find pushing it helps (only if you need no noise).
Literally just apply the LUT + -3 exposure in the HDR wheel and export the LUT in davinci resolve. It's incredibly easy to make custom LUTs in Resolve.
At first EI bothered me, but it’s essentially just built in exposure comp luts. I got a little confused and just always shot at 800 on Sony bc one time my zebras (while set accurately) let me clip highlights when it was saying I wasn’t clipping (when I was changing the EI). Maybe I need to look more closely at it again. Also, exposing hot will work on any camera in the world as long as you don’t clip the highlights!
Is there any reason you stay between ISO 640 and 1600, and dont bring the ISO as low as it can go? My understanding is that you do dont gain or lose dynamic range as you change ISO you just change how many stops are below or above middle grey. The lower the ISO typically the more stops below middle grey. So if the goal is to get as much shadow detail as possible, optimally, wouldn't we want to shoot at the lowest ISO possible, while blasting as much light into the sensor as possible without clipping, with a technical correction LUT that can show you what the color corrected image would look like on the monitor? Thanks!
Hi! This depends on the camera and if for example you were filming a completely flat lit wall, and you wanted as little noise as possible you would shoot at the lowest ISO, and expose at hot as possible without clipping. This would require stop reduction lut. I stay between that iso range on the Alexa just bc I feel comfy there. But, I’ve shot at lower ISOs than 640. It’s slightly complicated to explain in writing without showing but when I am in lower light scenarios I typically have some hot spots in the frame and that makes me not want to go down below 800/640.
@@BlaineWestropp1 I appreciate the response! What do you mean by feel comfy in that ISO range? If you get a chance, these two links talk about ETTR, one of them specifically about shooting in low light similar to my comment- essentially saying drop your ISO as low as possible and blast as much light as you can at the sensor. If after watching you agree, why would you still choose to shoot at 640? I have been obsessed with really trying to wrap my head around these concepts for a year plus now haha. Love your channel! th-cam.com/video/AVGx-LCvSFE/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/aB8ku9ET-dw/w-d-xo.html
so is this working for every iso? and how many stops can you over expose in the alexa? been doing this myself trying to get a good lut but havent got the time yet, is just a lot of fun to be doing this! love watching you go, cheers!
hey thanks.. if you need luts.. stay tuned. as far as over exposing, the point here in this video is just to expose below clipping point. how many stops "over" that is is subjective I would say! also yeah any ISO you can expose a little brighter. I have another video that dives deeper into the wild world of ISO
Can you also show some examples where you need a lot of dynamic range in the highlights? I really like how film performs in the highlights. Many people will now overexpose (ETTR) outside in highkey scenes on digital and it won't look good in my opinion.
I think the moments where you need more highlight latitude is when there is a bright sky, or a sunset/sunrise, as well as interiors that see out the windows during day time interiors. I mostly operate at native ISO, and often times over expose it like shown in this video. If I am on a mountain top at sunrise I may shoot at 1600. If I am in a night interior with practicals I may shoot at 400… and in both of those scenarios I still may shoot at 800!
For way more control adjusting exposure and highlights try grading in linear. First node “color space transform”. Select your camera color and gamma. Then transform it to aces ap1, and linear gamma. 2nd node. Adjust your exposure using the gain in primaries. Just your gain. Add other correction nodes next like the hdr adjustments he is showing you in the video. 3rd node (last node) Color space transform. Select aces ap1 and linear gamma. Transform it to rec701 or whatever output colorspace you want. Here is why it’s better than grading in 709. In rec 709, there is a curve image. This isn’t desirable when adjusting exposure because if you just want to adjust highlights your miss also get affected. Linear let’s you adjust exposure as if you were back on set adjusting iso or exposure. You have so much control. Linear works the same way your mind thinks about light. Note: Some tools on the color page like magic mask are created for rec709. The process for using those tools is to create a separate rec 709 node branch before the first color space transform. Use that branch to create your masks then just the alpha out to apply it to your main branch.
I will just tried this.. totally different behavior, not in a bad way. but.. to be able to adjust the exposure in the same way as in camera with one node (like in this video), is pretty valuable in a lot of scenarios. having more control is not bad, but I like the exactness of the HDR wheels when mapped. but that you for the technique, I will explore it further!
@@BlaineWestropp1Thanks for confirming! I was under the impression you were shooting ARRIRAW here and was wondering why you didn’t just monitor with a lower ISO. Your style and content are one of my favorite on TH-cam now. Thank you.
Another helpful video. What is your experience with shooting below base ISO to retain even more DR in the shadows? Probably won't work in this specific scenario in front of the windows, but maybe in scenes like your nighttime-living room/TV setup?
I’m probably a dummy but I see a lot more chromatic aberrations and fringing, at least on vintage coatings, when doing 2.5 or more stops of ETTR. I’m not an optics professor, but my feeling is The lens gets flooded with light. Entirely a hard sunlight situation, haven’t tried with tungsten and company.
you may be right as ive noticed this too. is it just that the CA is easier to see.. or is it the same and only dependent on the aperture. I dont know. maybe I'll do a test.
8:21 for anyone wondering. At least that’s how i have done it😅 Before HDR wheels: Rightclick a node, set gamma to linear. Use the gain wheel. Half the value is one stop. Half again, another stop etc. That’s how i used to do it at least👍🏻😅
Only problem here for me is: I shoot on a canon m50. Extremely low dynamic range, no real LOG, and low ISO capabilities. But still, I think, that even with clipping the image (sky=white), it looks much better than exposing correctly. Much much cleaner, which really helps with the cameras lower general image quality.
Exactly my approach- but I leave my zebras on (for Sony S-Log the zebras should be set at 94%) - so I can see if anything I need is clipping without having to use false color...
@@BlaineWestropp1 unrelated question, where are you creating videos? west or east America? are there film communities in your area? the film community in GZ china dose not exist.
If you set your Timeline Color Space in the project settings you don’t need to manually set everytime you use the HDR Wheels 👍🏾 (“Use Timeline” is checked by default)
I am still seeing I have to map the HDR wheels. my timeline color space is set in project settings, and I even have a preset saved for HDR wheels and it still requires me to manually set...
Hey thanks! I had the iso at 800 for this one. This is the native iso of this camera and a good starting point that provides a nice image in most scenarios.
i use panasonic cameras with atomos recorders and atomos has this clever HDR exposure tool where you just choose PG and it shows you all the dynamic range you have to play with. its not a straight rec709 curve which just moves around as you expose. so you have to choose in post where to set your exposure rather than while shooting (the -4 EI), as you did here. but its quicker and easier for computer to lower exp than do noise reduction so its the way i expose my shots. then just false color expose in post.
This is interesting. I didn’t know about this. I’ve shot with atomos monitors here and there over the years but haven’t really taken time to understand them :/
Well, yeah, there’s that. NR’d footage is also kinda smoothskinny, loses microcontrast that’s important for VFX/ tracking in the cinema world, where they’re doing stuff like removing tattoos on actors or changing road sign names, details that sometimes need to be tracked down at the 15*15 tracking box or smaller… NR may be good but it still makes things a bit smoodgy down at that scale
Do you mind expanding a bit about this pg method, and how do you do it? I use Ninja V, I don't know what's PG, there's PQ which only opens up when shooting raw, am I missing something?
I've used this technique extensively, however ETTR often causes color shifts. Your camera manufacter may recommend exposing skins or middle grey to a certain IRE. That's why the colors on the shots of your bed look slightly different (appart from moving clouds etc). ETTR cleans up the image but overexposing and underexposing changes the way colors look.
in my findings, on the Alexa, there's no color shift, or not enough of a color shift to matter. the bed scene does look different for sure, but in my next video I am in the studio (my bathroom) with completely controlled lighting and there is no sacrifice when doing this. gonna dive a little deeper in the next video!
Back in the day, overexposing too much could cause clipping in the red channel on certain cameras before the other colors would clip... so skin tones could become clipped. I would imagine now that DR is so wide, this would be much less of an issue... but I wonder if you overexpose too much if this could happen - and it wouldn't show up on false color or even a waveform... unless you're looking at the parade. I don't typically use ETTR - so haven't experienced this.
the only way I am every ETTR is if I am not clipping any info in any channel. on some cameras I set my exposure tools conservatively. for example, I may set my zebras to show at 90% on a camera that clips at 95%. this was I know for sure im not clipping. does that make sense?
yeah i'm just being silly. thank you for the tip! i have heard this talked about before but hadn't seen it demonstrated in such an easy to understand way.
As mentioned in the video.. tracking, stabilization, VFX, and more, on product work, can benefit from clean image. But yea this is a deeper look and you can expose however you want. I don’t always shoot like this. It’s a sometimes thing.
@@BlaineWestropp1I don't recommend this technique for product work as the color actually does shift when you overexpose on almost any camera except for Alexas. While Resolve's HDR exposure control (it's just linear gain) does behave better than other controls (saturation remains relatively constant), it is not aware of how your camera shifted the color when you over or under expose. So then you need to use a chart to get back to accurate color for a product shot. When you add in inconveniences like monitoring on set, having to individually tweak every shot in post, etc., etc., ETTR just doesn't make much sense today. Back when we had to work with a noisy 8-bit signal, it was much more worth the hassle.
@Humcrush I think ETTR definitely makes sense, sometimes. If it didn’t make sense there wouldn’t be an adjustable iso in present day cameras. I hear what you’re saying, but there are definitely scenarios where exposing brighter helps the image tremendously. That being said, you don’t have to go 4 stops over. You can go 1 stop, or half a stop over. I do this all the time and have good results. Also, sensors are so good today, and so flexible in terms of pushing color. And there’s no product work that happens without a significant grade to make the colors accurate, so a minor (very minor) color shift is not a problem. Lastly, I don’t always do this… just sometimes.
I'm not sure exposing to the right is as important as it used to be in the consumer-grade 8bit camera era. For most people, I'd say that this method makes it more difficult to return the shot back to its natural contrast, as most of the shot lives in the upper linear portion of the log curve. Unless you're a post-production pro this would result in a "thin-looking" image that lacks depth and richness.
Depends on the camera and the method for normalizing in post. With the addition of the HDR wheels in davinci resolve, you can photographically lower, or raise, your exposure in post. This way, shooting a hot exposure and bringing it down in post (via mapped HDR wheels in resolve) will look right, when previously, before the HDR wheels, it would not look right. For example, if you were to shoot a shot with 2 stops of ND, and then the same shot with no ND, and bring down the exposure by typing -2 (via mapped HDR wheels) of the no ND shot, it will look identical to the 2 stop ND shot, minus any color shift from the ND filter. It’s similar to just shooting at a lower ISO (on some cameras like the Alexa), but you don’t shift your DR at all. This is why I will shoot iso 800, or 1000 way over exposed, with a proper lut, and bring down later in post. That way I have a more pleasing, in my opinion, high end, and a very noiseless image which is useful for web and post.
@@BlaineWestropp1 amazing. So cameras are for the most part just different brands of data capture boxes. I come from the world of - for the most part - ‘baked-in look’ documentaries so this is all fascinating to me. This method plus thinking about generative AI, Unreal and even more simple post work like ‘re-lighting’ make it a pretty amazing time to be in this biz.
@@BlaineWestropp1 P.S. what was your experience with the FX3? I found it surprisingly noisy for a low light sensor but I was concerned with the taking the ETTR method too far and losing punch in the image.
well, you are right in a way. raise EI/ISO, gain latitude in highlights, lower EI/ISO gain info in shadows. if you lower your EI, you respond by letting more light hit the sensor, this gaining info in the highlights. if you raise your iso, you respond by letting less light hit, thus protecting highlights. the theory in this video is just get as much light as possible in there (without clipping) to get cleanest image possible.
as long as you do not clip your log signal, you can ETTR and pull down in post. you don't have to go 4 stops over, but the point is if you are bringing your image down at all in post, you are reducing the noise. just dont clip!
![fellow fellow - พรุ่งนี้ไม่มีใครรู้ feat. INK WARUNTORN [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QP6JyjYx_W0/mqdefault.jpg)
like if you are in the 360p club
The joys of traveling with spotty cell coverage.
Your channel is my favourite new discovery. Quality info, very technical, none of the typical TH-camr nonsense. Great stuff my dude.
Hey thanks Mustafa! I appreciate that. more to come!
been preaching this for years.
you da GOAT
Blaine I love how put your videos together, makes it super interesting to watch. I enjoy this topic because there will always be a place for it. It's true, story and feeling trumps pixels and clean images but damn, sometimes nerding out like this is exactly what you need. Thanks man, you deserve more love!
Hi Jacques, thank you! nerding out is fun, but in the end of the day... this stuff is fine to understand but will not really make or break a project.
TH-cam recommended this channel to me & you haven’t disappointed me 🎉👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
im glad :)
I usually have a technical lut with -1 stop active.
If exposed correctly i‘m out of the noisefloor and can just pull it back in davinci.
This works 90% of the time also for hectic scenarios.
Your way is definitely the best. Giving the sensor as much light as possible is so important.
Cullen Kelly has a comparrison between different shots like that comparing noise levels.
He comes to the same conclusion. Best image that way.
Thank you🙏🏻 this channel is a gem❤️
Hey thank you! Having the -1 on there is a smart move, again as long as you’re not clipping sensor. I think especially with stuff going to web, having super clean source footage helps, until web compression gets better and everyone has perfect film grain on everything.
@@BlaineWestropp1 absolutely. 100%
Hey Blaine, just wanted to say you’ve given me a lot of hope as I began my climb in this industry, lots o love
Hey thanks so much.. let me know if you have any questions. More to come!
My understand is: This technique is essentially what ISO is for in camera. If you had shot these at 160 iso, then you would have "technically" over exposed and shifted your dynamic range. Therefor; creating a cleaner image.
This seems to be even more important to utilize when shooting with cheaper sensors to dictate the look you're looking for. With the Arri Alev 3 sensor, you have so much Dynamic range and latitude that you can easily play within a large portion of that dynamic range to create a cleaner image in many scenarios where extra highlight retention isn't needed.
Big fan of your work, keep them coming!
hey thanks. I have a video coming soon.. maybe tomorrow, maybe Monday, that dives into the wild world of ISO and how changing the Iso differs than what I am doing here. in certain scenarios it is fine, and yes that is what ISO is for, and some cameras do it different than other cameras. gonna get into it in the next video.
Bro I love the way you at it. It encourages me to bring in life into my edits. This video is pretty good and informative. Keep on doing this man. I like this.
Hey thanks so much :) bring the life into those edits!
Men, this info its really worth it! I love the way you explain this concepts, its really difficult for people who are start on videography how need to expose LOG correctly, thx for this gem 🤓👍🏽
Thank you Wesly! More on the way :)
The Place Beyond the Pines is one of my favorite films
its so good. when they go to the one bank and ride the bike into the box truck is seriously one of the most well done scenes ive ever seen!
I accidentally did this earlier this year. We were shooting outdoors middle of day on location and our ND filters were left behind so we only had the internal ND's in camera, but they only went to 1.8. I shot at a lower ISO to compensate, I then pushed the ISO in post and lowered the exposer on the log wheels and was very happy with the results... This is something I've done for years while shooting night or dark scenes, but first time doing it on a bright scene.
works both ways! glad you got good results
Your channel is so incredible. Thank you for these videos
thanks so much, more on the way!
for anyone coming from celluloid ETTR makes perfect sense.
yep. reminds me of my dark room days.
Good stuff bagel boy. Love these cine tips!
thank u thank u :)
This is how I'd mostly shoot when I was using Sonys. On Canons I learned to be quite cautious when using this method. I found that their sensors handle highlights quite differently and can't be pulled back from highlights as well (especially if anything in your scene crosses the line, even slightly, into clipping). In shadows though, the Canon C70 has had the best shadow recovery I've ever seen.
On Blackmagics, so far this method had worked well enough, as long as I'm shooting with the native ISOs.
I'll have a play with this technique on my Panasonics.
Keep up the good work mate! I appreciate it when content creators share their findings with others like this.
hey thanks so much. love doing tests.. that's why I started TH-cam. good to know about the canon, all of them perform a little different. most important is just to make sure you are not clipping and to set your exposure tools in a place that won't let you mess it up!
@@BlaineWestropp1 Knowing your camera I've found is a big key. I've learned to take the time for plenty of tests before using gear on a shoot. Recently I used the Zhongyi Mitakon MFT kit with my BMPCC4K for a short film shoot. Those lenses I should have tested more before hand, too much character and way too soft (and I usually look for those things! Haha).
You're doing a solid job mate. Keep up the great work!
@glennc.ganley1685 thank you! Knowing your camera is definitely key! I run a lot of tests before considering myself fluent on any camera.
I’ve learned more from you than my film production professor lol
Uh oh!!
Is that The Place Beyond the Pines playing in the bg? I love that opening tracking shot following Gosling - Sean Bobbitt did that entire shot on the shoulder.
So good. Yes it’s The Place Beyond The Pines. Such a great movie! Did not know that about the opening shot. Thank you for the info!
@@BlaineWestropp1 th-cam.com/video/IHcYjKpJb-I/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Ih0scOpK5jV1LTEU
This has always been standard practice for me as long as I can simply tame/manage the highlights. Great video.
😇 thank you!
makes total sense! do you think the same process could be done using FCP instead of resolve? I've done in both but the results always look better in resolve. perhaps i'm not doing something right in FCP
sup Ribsy! just watched your video with Paulie, loved every second of it. I havent used Final Cut in a minute but.. I know in premiere for example the exposure slider is useless. but.. you can definitely bring down the exposure in FCP. Does it look the same as reducing exposure in camera, I am not sure. also, I dont always reduce exposure using mapped HDR wheels, sometimes I move it around in the curves, so it doesn't always have to be accurate in my opinion.
Hi Blaine, I'm testing out the mini LF tomorrow or Friday for a shoot and would like to test this method out as it is a night shoot and would like to get the cleanest image possible.
Can you explain a little more please? I'm not that technical so this kind of went over my head.
Do you use the false color checker on the Rec 709 image or the Log image?
The way you create the technical LUT is with a CST and then mapped HDR wheels and export a 65 cube for each stop and then transfer that to the camera?
How can I make sure that nothing will be clipping when I get it in color?
Hi. For a night shoot and cleanest image I would just lower your EI. For low light scenes I would use the false color based on the 709 image. I can explain why if you need, but it’ll protect you more for low light stuff, where if you used it on the log image you may think you have more exposure than you do (this is for low light scenes). Also for low light I would just stick to that method above, over using exp comp luts. But definitely test it out. If you need the LUTs, DM on ig. You can make them but you do not use a CST, and a 33 will do, and then it needs to be converted to an .AML file. Let me know if you need further clarification.
That would be great! Thank you for that. I messaged you on IG a couple days ago. Why is a CST not used to convert to the Rec.709? @@BlaineWestropp1
Hey! Great video! How would this apply in a low contrast low light scenario where there is equal shadow and equal light on the subject sitting in a room? (I think your conclusion part of the video where you are talking might be a good example) does exposing to the right without clipping highlights still work? Or expose just enough according to the scene? Meaning if the scene is underexposed by Nature keep the camera metering to underexposed too.
Hey thanks! All of this effort is just to lower the noise. In a low light low con scene you could just shoot at a lower ISO (which is in a way the same as over exposing, but the reduction is baked in). I also want minimal noise when uploading to web bc noise does not do well on web so that’s why I’ll typically record very bright, in any scenario, then bring it down to squash that noise! If I want a scene to be under exposed, and look dark in the final product, I will still over expose and just crank it down in post.
Fantastic as always. Worth noting that HDR wheels are great to adjust exposure as they do not affect colour saturation in the same way that colour wheels do. Also maybe you can clarify how to use false colour properly. I generally use zebras for clipping and setting a skin tone or middle grey say at 50 ire. In camera I monitor the log with false colour as a check find the patterns to confusing and vague for ratios and exposure in skin. I usually use waveforms for fine adjustment. Just not sure i trust them for clipping?! but in post i use FC to match general tone against reference shots and make sure i am keeping pink grey green in faces. I have always thought false colour to be insanely hard to read and poorly designed with the use of so many greys but i get why it does that. I guess EL zone makes sense but i have never understood why that hasn’t been the default previously. I have no idea but the ansel adams zones make a lot of sense and i guess i had always assumed that false color was based on that? Just never understood the choice of colours. Systems where you can choose and customise the FC colours like in da vinci are great but would be great to have that kind of flexibility in camera. Im sure high end monitors can do this but just never noticed or had time to customise a false colour set up on on camera monitor. Thanks so much as always for a totally complete and timely video.
I also use zebras. Seems to work great as long as your 100+ exposure is correct.
I’m shooting on an Amira. It’s nearly impossible to blow out the highlights with an arri sensor, so maybe I should actually overexpose in some situations with lots of shadows. Do you also do this method, when you drop of the footage to a production house?
Btw Derek cianfrance movies are so good. Blue valentine is another favorite of mine.
Hahah I love it. I was shooting in the middle of the day (overcast) wide open, at 360 degree shutter and couldn’t clip it 😂. Even when the image on camera is looking wildly hot, you’re good. Hard to mess it up. If you’re dropping at a color facility I would 100% give them bright footage. If you’re dropping at a post house that doesn’t specialize in color and you won’t have a hand in the color, I’d be more careful. But it is as simple as an email with an explanation. Also, love this movie. Haven’t seen blue valentine. Adding to the list.
Absolutely Loving the content Blaine! you mention in the description that you have the TLUTs available? Would you happen to have them for C-Log2 & 3? Currently shooting on a Canon C70 and im dumbfounded at how difficult it is to simply find the (canon original 709) conversion LUTs- but also I feel im a little unsure as to how much I should 'pull back' that HDR wheel to get a proper 1-Stop translation in reduction. Long story short; if you have Canon Log Technical LUTs that'd be a great help! :D
hey thanks Casey! if you message me on instagram (wstrpp) I can send them over :)
@@BlaineWestropp1 thanks! written you under "case_le_manchild" ;)
your videos are so useful, thank you so much!
thank you, more to come 😇
Possibly a stupid question, but does this same technique work this well on something like a Fuji xt3 shooting in log? Using an Arri sort of makes me wonder if this stuff is possible because of the quality of camera being used, or if its usable regardless of what camera is doing it - so long as you're in log?
In the video I took it to the extreme by exposing JUST under clip. Some scenarios can benefit from this, some scenarios can benefit from just exposing a little brighter. Just don’t clip your highlights and you’ll be good. Test it out on your camera, while I’m sure it will be fine, I haven’t used the Fuji xt3!
Great cocept to share. I've been playing with this for the past few years after listening to steve yedlins two presentations. You mentioned that you're hesitant to change the ISO to compensate. Why is that? Also, I use zebras to achieve this which makes things super fast and almost automatic feeling. Sometimes I'll let small bokeh balls and specular highlights without detail clip to safe shadows.
I’m fine with speculars clipping. I like to work between 640 and 1600. My follow up video to this video gets a little more into why. It’s called “iso is complicated”
Also yes.. zebras.. love them!
What monitor do u use as reference monitor for DOP work on set? Maybe something around10-15 inches? SmallHD MON-CINE-13 is great, but maybe you could suggest any cheaper model?
on most sets I use my personal smallHD cine7 regardless of the camera I am using. oftentimes I will bring the focus7 to walk around with (which receives wireless feed from cine7). For big monitor I prefer older Sony and Flanders. some of the new monitors look crazy to me and you have to stand directly in front of it or the image looks weird. bigger smallhd monitors are good too. are you trying to buy one or rent one? usually the big monitor is rented, but I do have one at home I use. bringing around big monitors is just a little cumbersome and the rental cost is fairly low.
I'm searching one to buy. I can rent and always do rent monitors ofc, but even with really good rentals with calibrated monitors I cant get enough stability in my viewing experience. Even though most of the time I work with Alexas, sometimes I need to work with Sony Venice or Red Raptor (that gives a bit strange Rec709 to my taste compoared to Alexas. With Alexas I view almost the same psyhologically on set and on color grading) - but every time there is a different camera, even if it's the same model - so I need to have some stable point of reference that I can plug to any rented camera. Ofc, there are plenty of changing viewing factors, that are hard to keep stable from day to day, but owning the monitor makes it a little easier. Why I'm thinking towards more then 7"? Cuz I had pretty cool experience with Liliput A12 12"- watching experience is somewhat different from 7" - I can see my frame in more details, that I can't judge on 7". For a bit offtopic about not old good monitors - I experienced new TVLogic LVM-171S - and it's very good, but It's table/stand monitor ofc. @BlaineWestropp1
great video. again! how do you create -1, -2, -3 stop LUT-s for different cameras?
message me on instagram!
Love the moody look of the shot with tv in background at 35secs. What lens is that?
it is definitely an anamorphic but I forget which it is :(
Always curious if you use false colors on rec709 technical lut or on the log.
For context I use the fx3 and expose and monitor with the leeming luts which are ETTR based luts.
I set up different exposure tools for different jobs. Lately, I’ve been having the false colors based on the log image on Alexa. For Sony I always put a 94% zebra on, which is where the log image clips. Having exposure tools based on the log image is helpful sometimes, but sometimes it’s good to have them based on the 709, like in low light scenes. In low light scenes you don’t want to have to bring up your exposure in post, and if you’re monitoring exposure on the log image you may think you’re getting more exposure than you are. Day exterior in the sun, monitor exposure on the log image in my opinion. Lots of different scenarios and techniques. Sometimes outside I’ll only have zebras.
Release the technical lut pack already (I'm currently running sony a7siii and would kill for these luts) . Also thoughts on EL zone vs false colour?
im a false color guy, but any exposure tool that you feel comfortable with is fine. I have the luts. stay tuned!
Can you explain the hdr wheels mapping thing? I am shooting slog3… so would I map the wheels to slog3 and adjust global exposure under a rec709 lut?
Does the mapping actually make it so that the exposure is photometric? Or are the hdr wheels photometric already?
Yes you map it in a node under your 709. They must be mapped in order to behave properly!
@@BlaineWestropp1 thank you so much!
@Kylelanceobrienfilm sure thing, let me know if you have any issues or other questions 😎
Thanks for the info, since you might not know how many stops over you'll be shooting on a particular full day shoot with multiple lighting situations, do you pre-load your monitor with multiple technical LUTS for previewing at lower stops. For example would you load a -1, -2, -3 , and -4 stop LUTS all installed into the monitor for previewing for that days shoot?
Yes. I have had the 5 luts 0, through -5 always on the camera. Very useful to have.
@@BlaineWestropp1 Hi Blaine, thank you for this channel...I'm learning so much from you. Did you actually create these 5 "technical" luts with minus stops or did you find them somewhere else. If you created them, I would love to know how to do that myself accurately for the Alexa and what program to use. Thanks
Would love to see a video on how you create your technical luts :)
I will consider it :)
All hail Blaine the camera king. Honestly so glad I found your channel, I've honestly learnt more from you than any university degree, without the youtuber bullshit hah
hehe. thank u. maybe I should start a college. no homework ever.
Great Video! Thank you for the tutorial. I was dead set against ETTR originally. But your video has urged me to experiment. I shoot with BMPCC4K camera, do you have a technical camera LUT for that?
thank you! definitely experiment. I have done the exact experiment in this video many times in different scenarios over the years, this is just the first time ive posted it. yes I have technical luts for most cameras.
@@BlaineWestropp1 nice! Able to share the LUT for BMPCC4K if available? Thank you.
Hi Blaine, great video. I assume this only works when shooting in log right? Also, does Premiere Pro have an equivalent tool like the HDR wheels from resolve?
Hey thanks! Well, technically you can expose any type of image any way you want. So if you are shooting with a camera that is recording rec709 you can still expose it a little brighter as long as you don’t clip the highlights. Also, in premiere I use the curves to adjust the exposure. I stay far away from the exposure slider.
@@BlaineWestropp1thanks Blaine!
so im only building a lighting/filming setup for my very dark and mostly black painted "Studio" I go with a Sony FX30+Sony 20mm lense. With Base ISO 800 it looks much better but i will loose to much informations, so better if i go with Base ISO 2500? ISO 800 looks pretty right but 2500 realy is very brigh
I prefer to shoot at the lower base and light accordingly, but in the end, whatever looks better may be the right move. Also, in general if you feed the sensor a lot of light, you will have a cleaner image, whether shooting a lower iso or lowering the exposure in post
@@BlaineWestropp1 alright i will test it a little more, thanks!
What are you thoughts on HDR in general and TH-cam? Would you upload in Rec. 2100 HLG or PQ?
great question. I think some stuff looks cool in HDR. like lizards and fruit. but overall HDR is not something that is in my workflow at the moment. that may change. we will see. have you been experimenting with it?
@@BlaineWestropp1 I have and so far the biggest issue is depending on which flavor of HDR you choose, things change.
For instance doing HLG, should gracefully fall into the SDR band when playing back HDR content on a display that can’t support it, but it always mixed results, hit or miss.
For PQ, forget about it. PQ is much butter for impact when watching on a display that has support for it, but when it’s not supported, there’s no backwards compatibility so usually on an sdr display it looks horrible.
TH-cam has a thing that allows you to create an SDR Rec 709 Lut for your final PQ or HLG HDR grade and then let you upload it with your video, but I haven’t tried it yet.
Overall though, HDR definitely looks amazing and I’m tempted to use it, just worried about compatibility.
Oh btw do arris have any special highlight recovery settings say as the kinefinity cameras do. I had never noticed and i am not an arri owner. And can someone please explain red traffic lights and why they got rid of clipping. I understand the idea behind the rgb channel but don’t understand what we are then supposed to do to adjust exposure in terms of separate rgb channels?! Am i missing something? I feel like i must be. Thx.
you do not make specific adjustments to RGB channels on a red camera. but certain color channels will clip before other channels, so its just showing you that. if you just make sure the bars aren't too high you'll be fine. check the log image. do tests. also I dont know about the highlight recovery on the kinefinity so I can't speak to that. there's no highlight recovery button on an Alexa though.
but with such method, don't you remove the detail with the highlights? I am doing the -1 step compensation LUT on my sony a7-iv, would you do more like +1.7 or +2?
If the highlights are not clipped, you are good. I assume you are overexposing your camera to 1.7 on the meter, and have a -1 LUT so it looks normal on screen. This is fine to do, and I know a lot of people do this on the Sony cams. As long as you aren’t blowing out your highlights you should be good.
@@BlaineWestropp1 I just have -1 LUT so I need to go +1 to make it look good. But now after your video I am thinking maybe I should go even higher like +2. You are on Arri so you are safe with +4 probably but with Sony I don't know if +2 wouldnt be too high already. thanks for the info!
@@RafalGendarz ah! I see what you mean. Id keep the -1 and just let your exposure go up a little. The exposure comp luts don’t need to match exactly. If you want a -1.5 or -2.. I have created them. Let me know.
@@BlaineWestropp1 Thanks! I put some fuji lut on them from Cullen Kelly and also the version with the Exposure map from Mono Nodes so I can do them by myself. Will try 1.5 and 2 ver
Cool! Let me know if you have any issues and make sure to test it out before doing it on a project as +2 on the Sony meter can be a dangerous spot to live in in certain scenarios.
Thank you for this explanation. I've been using EL Zone lately with my Sony and Reds. It would be awesome if I could record those EL Zone's stop values and use it later in post. Might have to do screen shots of the monitor... Thanks again for all these awesome videos you make!
you can put false color on in post! or just use the waveform.
3:20 please tell this info to so many new DPs I know that shoot tight shots on long lenses at like a 1.4-4. I try to push for an 8 or deeper and they don’t listen, I’m a 1st AC. It’s like you want this whole thing in focus right? Glad to see someone who knows what they’re doing for product lol good work man
😇😇 trying to spread the word a little bit around here.
Can you show how to generate a -1 or -2 monitor LUT in resolve? Ideally for FX3 😬
You can use CineEI, it will do it for you automagically, just choose s-log3 as lut, and now iso wheel will change exposure of your lut, instead of actual iso, and it will show amount of stops of dr left above middle gray. And on your monitor you can use any lut you like.
@@igorzhidkov1957 CineEI is great for in camera, I was after this lut for my montior
Giving this a bit more thought. Would you still use this method if there were no shadows in the scene? Or don't care about the shadows? Example- a scenic view of a hill top at 12pm with no cloud coverage? Assuming I don't care about any shadows but am concerned with highlights only, would you still overexpose like this? Thanks!
great question. depends what my end goal is. maybe id expose a little hot, and pull down. but.. I dont always overexpose, whenever im outside im just shooting by eye. for more technical footage like product stuff, that's where I find pushing it helps (only if you need no noise).
4 stops over is wild. I think my s5ii can do that in BRAW with highlight recovery…
I need to make a -3 EI 709 lut now. How did you make yours?
I have the luts for all the cameras (or most) stay tuned.
Literally just apply the LUT + -3 exposure in the HDR wheel and export the LUT in davinci resolve. It's incredibly easy to make custom LUTs in Resolve.
Great one
thank you thank you :)
When EI came out in the FX3, I figured this out, pretty neat! Do you think this works with other camera to? Like the Canon C70 for example?
At first EI bothered me, but it’s essentially just built in exposure comp luts. I got a little confused and just always shot at 800 on Sony bc one time my zebras (while set accurately) let me clip highlights when it was saying I wasn’t clipping (when I was changing the EI). Maybe I need to look more closely at it again. Also, exposing hot will work on any camera in the world as long as you don’t clip the highlights!
Is there any reason you stay between ISO 640 and 1600, and dont bring the ISO as low as it can go? My understanding is that you do dont gain or lose dynamic range as you change ISO you just change how many stops are below or above middle grey. The lower the ISO typically the more stops below middle grey. So if the goal is to get as much shadow detail as possible, optimally, wouldn't we want to shoot at the lowest ISO possible, while blasting as much light into the sensor as possible without clipping, with a technical correction LUT that can show you what the color corrected image would look like on the monitor? Thanks!
Hi! This depends on the camera and if for example you were filming a completely flat lit wall, and you wanted as little noise as possible you would shoot at the lowest ISO, and expose at hot as possible without clipping. This would require stop reduction lut. I stay between that iso range on the Alexa just bc I feel comfy there. But, I’ve shot at lower ISOs than 640. It’s slightly complicated to explain in writing without showing but when I am in lower light scenarios I typically have some hot spots in the frame and that makes me not want to go down below 800/640.
@@BlaineWestropp1 I appreciate the response! What do you mean by feel comfy in that ISO range? If you get a chance, these two links talk about ETTR, one of them specifically about shooting in low light similar to my comment- essentially saying drop your ISO as low as possible and blast as much light as you can at the sensor. If after watching you agree, why would you still choose to shoot at 640? I have been obsessed with really trying to wrap my head around these concepts for a year plus now haha. Love your channel!
th-cam.com/video/AVGx-LCvSFE/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/aB8ku9ET-dw/w-d-xo.html
looking to see WHAT LUT CANON C70 IS FOR ?
what do you mean?!
@@BlaineWestropp1 do you know if we overexposed or ETR
Hey, can I get that Expo LUT for sony FX3 and ARRI?
yes DM me on instagram
@@BlaineWestropp1 I DM you
Hey, Great Work:)
Are there any advantages to using a Lut with -4 stops instead of using CineEI?:)
When you’re creating your technical luts, are you just using the HDR Wheels mapped to LOG-C and then decreasing by x stop and exporting that as a LUT?
yep
If you were using slog 3, would you map the hdr wheels to slog 3 under a rec 709 lut?
@Kylelanceobrienfilm yes!
so is this working for every iso? and how many stops can you over expose in the alexa? been doing this myself trying to get a good lut but havent got the time yet, is just a lot of fun to be doing this! love watching you go, cheers!
hey thanks.. if you need luts.. stay tuned. as far as over exposing, the point here in this video is just to expose below clipping point. how many stops "over" that is is subjective I would say! also yeah any ISO you can expose a little brighter. I have another video that dives deeper into the wild world of ISO
Can you also show some examples where you need a lot of dynamic range in the highlights? I really like how film performs in the highlights. Many people will now overexpose (ETTR) outside in highkey scenes on digital and it won't look good in my opinion.
I think the moments where you need more highlight latitude is when there is a bright sky, or a sunset/sunrise, as well as interiors that see out the windows during day time interiors. I mostly operate at native ISO, and often times over expose it like shown in this video. If I am on a mountain top at sunrise I may shoot at 1600. If I am in a night interior with practicals I may shoot at 400… and in both of those scenarios I still may shoot at 800!
For way more control adjusting exposure and highlights try grading in linear.
First node “color space transform”. Select your camera color and gamma. Then transform it to aces ap1, and linear gamma.
2nd node. Adjust your exposure using the gain in primaries. Just your gain.
Add other correction nodes next like the hdr adjustments he is showing you in the video.
3rd node (last node)
Color space transform. Select aces ap1 and linear gamma. Transform it to rec701 or whatever output colorspace you want.
Here is why it’s better than grading in 709.
In rec 709, there is a curve image. This isn’t desirable when adjusting exposure because if you just want to adjust highlights your miss also get affected. Linear let’s you adjust exposure as if you were back on set adjusting iso or exposure. You have so much control. Linear works the same way your mind thinks about light.
Note: Some tools on the color page like magic mask are created for rec709. The process for using those tools is to create a separate rec 709 node branch before the first color space transform. Use that branch to create your masks then just the alpha out to apply it to your main branch.
I will just tried this.. totally different behavior, not in a bad way. but.. to be able to adjust the exposure in the same way as in camera with one node (like in this video), is pretty valuable in a lot of scenarios. having more control is not bad, but I like the exactness of the HDR wheels when mapped. but that you for the technique, I will explore it further!
Would there be a difference just monitoring with a lower ISO instead of using a LUT? Since we’re capturing raw
If you’re shooting raw. Monitoring with the lower iso would be fine, and similar to the luts. This is how Sony’s EI operates.
@@BlaineWestropp1Thanks for confirming! I was under the impression you were shooting ARRIRAW here and was wondering why you didn’t just monitor with a lower ISO. Your style and content are one of my favorite on TH-cam now. Thank you.
I would love to have those technical luts for -4stops underexposed.
Stay tuned!
i've always been afraid to do the ETTR method.
just test it out and you may find some new things out about your camera!
Hey, do you have a slog3 -1 stop lut?
Yes stand by
Solid!
thanks king
🫡
Another helpful video. What is your experience with shooting below base ISO to retain even more DR in the shadows? Probably won't work in this specific scenario in front of the windows, but maybe in scenes like your nighttime-living room/TV setup?
thank you! I find myself shooting low light interiors at 800. this is partially bc I usually have bright spots within that dark frame!
@@BlaineWestropp1 thanks for your thoughts!
I’m probably a dummy but I see a lot more chromatic aberrations and fringing, at least on vintage coatings, when doing 2.5 or more stops of ETTR. I’m not an optics professor, but my feeling is The lens gets flooded with light. Entirely a hard sunlight situation, haven’t tried with tungsten and company.
you may be right as ive noticed this too. is it just that the CA is easier to see.. or is it the same and only dependent on the aperture. I dont know. maybe I'll do a test.
Can you try shooting CinemaDNG with a phone?
which phone. I want that new iPhone!
8:21 for anyone wondering.
At least that’s how i have done it😅
Before HDR wheels:
Rightclick a node, set gamma to linear.
Use the gain wheel. Half the value is one stop.
Half again, another stop etc.
That’s how i used to do it at least👍🏻😅
We have a true OG pro here!
@@BlaineWestropp1 😅🙏🏻
Only problem here for me is: I shoot on a canon m50. Extremely low dynamic range, no real LOG, and low ISO capabilities.
But still, I think, that even with clipping the image (sky=white), it looks much better than exposing correctly. Much much cleaner, which really helps with the cameras lower general image quality.
It’s ok to clip! All depends what you’re going for.
Exactly my approach- but I leave my zebras on (for Sony S-Log the zebras should be set at 94%) - so I can see if anything I need is clipping without having to use false color...
yep... I often times will have zebras on as well. great way to not have to be toggling false color!
nice, I usually over exposed because vlog mentions over expose 1 stop then do as ou mentioned.
yep, gives great results!
@@BlaineWestropp1 unrelated question, where are you creating videos? west or east America? are there film communities in your area? the film community in GZ china dose not exist.
If you set your Timeline Color Space in the project settings you don’t need to manually set everytime you use the HDR Wheels 👍🏾 (“Use Timeline” is checked by default)
I am still seeing I have to map the HDR wheels. my timeline color space is set in project settings, and I even have a preset saved for HDR wheels and it still requires me to manually set...
The Place Beyond the Pines
WINNER
ettr is life on og pocket
I really need to snag one....
Why do you have your ISO so high? Usually I would stick to a much lower range. Learning a lot from your channel pal.
Hey thanks! I had the iso at 800 for this one. This is the native iso of this camera and a good starting point that provides a nice image in most scenarios.
@@BlaineWestropp1 Thanks for the explanation, I appreciate it , have a great day.
Place Beyond the Pines?
Yes!
No complaints
username checks out
Where have you been all my life ? ❤🙏🏻
here I am!
i use panasonic cameras with atomos recorders and atomos has this clever HDR exposure tool where you just choose PG and it shows you all the dynamic range you have to play with. its not a straight rec709 curve which just moves around as you expose. so you have to choose in post where to set your exposure rather than while shooting (the -4 EI), as you did here. but its quicker and easier for computer to lower exp than do noise reduction so its the way i expose my shots. then just false color expose in post.
This is interesting. I didn’t know about this. I’ve shot with atomos monitors here and there over the years but haven’t really taken time to understand them :/
Well, yeah, there’s that.
NR’d footage is also kinda smoothskinny, loses microcontrast that’s important for VFX/ tracking in the cinema world, where they’re doing stuff like removing tattoos on actors or changing road sign names, details that sometimes need to be tracked down at the 15*15 tracking box or smaller…
NR may be good but it still makes things a bit smoodgy down at that scale
Do you mind expanding a bit about this pg method, and how do you do it?
I use Ninja V, I don't know what's PG, there's PQ which only opens up when shooting raw, am I missing something?
You da goat
takes one to know one 🌶️
Incredible dynamic range on Mini lf which my Fx3 can’t be even matched at all 😢. So, it significantly influenced how Fx3 user ETTR😢
I expose to the right on most cameras nowadays. They all have good range!
I've used this technique extensively, however ETTR often causes color shifts. Your camera manufacter may recommend exposing skins or middle grey to a certain IRE. That's why the colors on the shots of your bed look slightly different (appart from moving clouds etc). ETTR cleans up the image but overexposing and underexposing changes the way colors look.
Also I'm not shure if this is caused by how the sensor behaves to different IRE levels or just how Log_to_Rec709 LUTs work
in my findings, on the Alexa, there's no color shift, or not enough of a color shift to matter. the bed scene does look different for sure, but in my next video I am in the studio (my bathroom) with completely controlled lighting and there is no sacrifice when doing this. gonna dive a little deeper in the next video!
Back in the day, overexposing too much could cause clipping in the red channel on certain cameras before the other colors would clip... so skin tones could become clipped. I would imagine now that DR is so wide, this would be much less of an issue... but I wonder if you overexpose too much if this could happen - and it wouldn't show up on false color or even a waveform... unless you're looking at the parade. I don't typically use ETTR - so haven't experienced this.
the only way I am every ETTR is if I am not clipping any info in any channel. on some cameras I set my exposure tools conservatively. for example, I may set my zebras to show at 90% on a camera that clips at 95%. this was I know for sure im not clipping. does that make sense?
@@BlaineWestropp1 yes for sure!
this is a great vid but i think any camera that can be fully recovered from 4stops over is out of my price range 😂
The point is to just expose a little brighter, just before clipping. Can be done on any camera!
yeah i'm just being silly. thank you for the tip! i have heard this talked about before but hadn't seen it demonstrated in such an easy to understand way.
😇
You had to zoom in 1000% to see a subtle difference. Just expose to taste, everyone. 😉
As mentioned in the video.. tracking, stabilization, VFX, and more, on product work, can benefit from clean image. But yea this is a deeper look and you can expose however you want. I don’t always shoot like this. It’s a sometimes thing.
@@BlaineWestropp1I don't recommend this technique for product work as the color actually does shift when you overexpose on almost any camera except for Alexas. While Resolve's HDR exposure control (it's just linear gain) does behave better than other controls (saturation remains relatively constant), it is not aware of how your camera shifted the color when you over or under expose. So then you need to use a chart to get back to accurate color for a product shot. When you add in inconveniences like monitoring on set, having to individually tweak every shot in post, etc., etc., ETTR just doesn't make much sense today. Back when we had to work with a noisy 8-bit signal, it was much more worth the hassle.
@Humcrush I think ETTR definitely makes sense, sometimes. If it didn’t make sense there wouldn’t be an adjustable iso in present day cameras. I hear what you’re saying, but there are definitely scenarios where exposing brighter helps the image tremendously. That being said, you don’t have to go 4 stops over. You can go 1 stop, or half a stop over. I do this all the time and have good results. Also, sensors are so good today, and so flexible in terms of pushing color. And there’s no product work that happens without a significant grade to make the colors accurate, so a minor (very minor) color shift is not a problem. Lastly, I don’t always do this… just sometimes.
Topaz Video AI with AI Model Nyx is the way to go in 2023 when you want to stop to work like in 2010.
Lol I will have to check it out.
I'm not sure exposing to the right is as important as it used to be in the consumer-grade 8bit camera era.
For most people, I'd say that this method makes it more difficult to return the shot back to its natural contrast, as most of the shot lives in the upper linear portion of the log curve. Unless you're a post-production pro this would result in a "thin-looking" image that lacks depth and richness.
But also, WOW, those are some clean clips. How does overexposing this way shift the dynamic range?
Depends on the camera and the method for normalizing in post. With the addition of the HDR wheels in davinci resolve, you can photographically lower, or raise, your exposure in post. This way, shooting a hot exposure and bringing it down in post (via mapped HDR wheels in resolve) will look right, when previously, before the HDR wheels, it would not look right. For example, if you were to shoot a shot with 2 stops of ND, and then the same shot with no ND, and bring down the exposure by typing -2 (via mapped HDR wheels) of the no ND shot, it will look identical to the 2 stop ND shot, minus any color shift from the ND filter. It’s similar to just shooting at a lower ISO (on some cameras like the Alexa), but you don’t shift your DR at all. This is why I will shoot iso 800, or 1000 way over exposed, with a proper lut, and bring down later in post. That way I have a more pleasing, in my opinion, high end, and a very noiseless image which is useful for web and post.
@@BlaineWestropp1 amazing. So cameras are for the most part just different brands of data capture boxes. I come from the world of - for the most part - ‘baked-in look’ documentaries so this is all fascinating to me.
This method plus thinking about generative AI, Unreal and even more simple post work like ‘re-lighting’ make it a pretty amazing time to be in this biz.
@@BlaineWestropp1 P.S. what was your experience with the FX3? I found it surprisingly noisy for a low light sensor but I was concerned with the taking the ETTR method too far and losing punch in the image.
Yep, it’s all wild! Also when I am exposing hot images I’ll only do it on cameras that shoot log.
Place beyond the pines
yes yes. good eyes!
Ohh I though overexposed would get you more dynamic in the highlight and underexposed in the shadows but Its the opposite
well, you are right in a way. raise EI/ISO, gain latitude in highlights, lower EI/ISO gain info in shadows. if you lower your EI, you respond by letting more light hit the sensor, this gaining info in the highlights. if you raise your iso, you respond by letting less light hit, thus protecting highlights. the theory in this video is just get as much light as possible in there (without clipping) to get cleanest image possible.
@@BlaineWestropp1Wonderful thanks, had to read it 3 times but I think I get it now, will dive in more thanks a lot !
Did anyone peep that windows sound at 0:09 lolol
I’m surprised it took this long for someone to notice 😂😂
Literally clicked on the video and noticed it as you said LOL@@BlaineWestropp1
weirdly, it was a real background sound.. I did scoot it a few seconds to the right spot though.
My video will continue playing after ads.
wait there's ads on these videos?
@@BlaineWestropp1 I had one. Better shake down YT for your bread (baguette, ciabatta, or otherwise).
🧠
😇😇
false colour is coated fr
Truth
RED users this does not apply to you, DO NOT USE ETTR
as long as you do not clip your log signal, you can ETTR and pull down in post. you don't have to go 4 stops over, but the point is if you are bringing your image down at all in post, you are reducing the noise. just dont clip!
@@BlaineWestropp1 this goes against everything RED has ever taught us my friend.
@@chrisjollylikestofilm do a test! Expose hot without clipping the log signal and you’ll be fine!
Place Beyond the Pines in the background confirming why I felt compelled to subscribe 🫡
😇🫡 love that movie