Why I play rogue... Cause red-eyes black dragon, man.... the nostalgia, cards look cool, and frankly, I don't ever seem myself ever going anywhere near the finals.
The truth is that Doug hates Rogue decks, because he has played such meta decks as frogs, fluffals, and Altergeists. He just doesn't understand that Pot of Desires is a - 9.
When I got back into Yu-Gi-Oh I started with a Lunalight deck and went to Locals, and even though I got pretty high up the Orchist player I went againt helped me learn more about how Orchist played. And even though I haven't repeated that, the local scene has helped cultivate me and tweak my deck and explore new things about how the games are played. I'm more thankful to the fact that I'm getting better with help from mates at locals than I am with the fact I placed in a Locals tournament. Because these experiences help me get better and more confident.
My locals has an event where people can duel against currently meta decks and learn how to combat them. It's a really cool event as the store employees are really friendly and go out of their way to learn the decks their using so they can teach other players how to both use them and fight them.
I don't really have anything to add, just that stories like yours and Andrew's below make my heart warm and fuzzy. That and probably the clogged arteries, but that is beside the point.
@@brandonmedina3993 I'm good. Me, Candice, and Gary all live and work in Japan now, though Candice and Gary are on the east side while I'm on the west.
@@brandonmedina3993 It's so much cleaner here. I'm loving it despite basically being by myself here (Thomas and Candice & Gary are in different cities/regions). Also my apartment is in a good spot that's close to everything I need and I work overall less, so Japan has been a blessing for me. How are you doing? Any plans about going anywhere else in Asia?
Acknowledgement, acceptance, preparation, evolving, and practice. 5 Steps to becoming a better duelist! Thank you. while watching this video you help me better understand and help me put into words things I've been trying to explain for a long time!
Something Jeff Jones said in the HouseofChamps charity stream was that his favorite top was the one with psychics. It was an inferior strategy he had to get lucky with but the innovation aspect of the deck transcended all of his other tops with meta. Something I consider when I think about playing the game now and how, when I walk away from the game, I’ll remember why I put hours of my life into something. I don’t think there’s the same one answer for everyone but I know for certain that playing the game unuawarely passing time (asleep) is not the way
I never really realized how awkward Kagari's proportions are. I get that it's a mech body, but still, it just looks off putting. I guess that's the price you have to pay if you wanna be a meta deck.
To all competitive Yu-Gi-Oh players: So a Brand New employee has just been hired at a Lab. “Hi. I’m new here.” “Hey! Welcome to the Lab.” “Quick Question: what is that lab down that hall?” “Oh! That’s the Yu-Gi-Oh Lab.” “What’s it for?” “Currently there are Deck experiments going on in there.”
To be fair to all those who play "Rogue" decks, technically every "Meta" deck was once a "Rogue" deck, someone had to start playing them first. That being said, it is very important, just as Doug mentioned, for anyone playing any deck to understand the workings of the decks they might come up against which, most likely, will be "Meta" decks. Just make sure whatever deck you're playing you have fun playing it, otherwise...what's the point xD
I understand where you're coming from, but I think that you're overlooking something. When a pack comes out that releases a new archetype, if that archetype immediately starts topping tons of tournaments the very first weekend, then it never had a chance to be rogue. Rogue is more about representation and success than time, so if a deck is successful right of the the gate it would be meta right away
@@Dzeeff - True, however the players that immediately started topping with those new archetypes still made the decision to take those new archetypes to those tournaments. At the time, since those archetypes would have just came out and the tournaments would be the first with them available, taking those new decks could be a risk instead of taking a more known deck that has been "Meta" before the release of the new archetype(s). It's awesome when a new archetype ends up being really good and catches on, but that isn't always the case. Unless you're referring to just the TCG, in which case I would say that yes it is possible for a deck to technically be "Meta" right from the release (kind of), but that is mainly due to the deck already having been seen heavily in the OCG and gaining in popularity over there. Which, still someone or some people would have had to make the decision to play those archetypes over there first and just so happen to have done very well with them. Either way, it takes someone or some people to show the greatness of a deck or series of combos before it really catches on and becomes "Meta". In order for a deck to have representation, it must first be seen at tournaments, which doesn't happen if people don't first make the decision to build those very new and unknown (unless they were seen from the OCG) decks first. With everything there is always a beginning and end. I see what you're saying though, cheers! :)
I think people need to accept that it's ok to play rogue and not be able to beat meta 90% of the time. That's part of the fun really, being forced to be at the top of your game to beat people who can easily kill you 3 different ways if you're not careful or even the slightest bit unlucky.
Would you be interested in doing a video or maybe even series on the history of successful rogue strategies? I've been meaning to ask this for some time and I think you're the right person for the job.
For me coming back to Yugioh after like 12 13 years, i felt comfortable playing Six Samurai, which i later learned was a rogue deck, but i feel that with upcoming cards and maybe some creative deck building, i think it can be pushed into a competitive value. i love the deck as well so that adds to the usage hahaha
As a long time fan of blackwings, and being that blackwing player that never tops anything anymore, I’m just glad to be acknowledged. I will probably keep playing this deck until I just give up on playing and go on to just being a collector
As someone who plays a lot of rogue decks, mostly Nekroz and Dark Magician, I play mostly against friends and I try out decks online before I purchase anything, so I can understand how the decks works. I’m actually looking into trying Sky Strikers so I can see how the deck works and see if I like it.
I love playing E Heroes and as someone who failed to win his first locals, I can understand that beating a friend or a sibling is one thing and being a pro is another. As also a budget player/ casual, its rather frustrating to get the money to attempt to practice against meta decks with a rogue deck like mine. Especially when I’m just using the E Heroes archetype
I've been out of the game competitively for the last few years since Links came out but I'll give my 2 cents. You're 100% correct, playing a rogue dead is a double edged sword. You will beat some meta decks just because the players aren't ready for you but if you didn't prepare for the meta decks and thought your rogue deck would win on that alone the results will only disappoint. I like to think there are two types of Rogue Deck players. People who just want to make "their" deck playable in a competitive tournament and those those use a rogue deck because they know they can use it to counter what the meta is today. There is nothing wrong with that person trying to make a Dark Magician Deck work in a YCS, if they work hard and understand the meta they might find they can do well. They most likely won't get top but they can do well. If you're someone that uses a rogue deck because it counters the meta that's just smart play, but it's going to piss people off. Players don't like sudden shifts in the meta because it's not something they can prepare for so to them a loss to a rogue deck they feel is less about them playing badly and more about the bad luck that they had to face the rogue deck.
Yo youre the first pro who acknowledged that you can be successful with a rogue deck if youre smart about it. So many people just say its impossible with a rogue deck. Thank you, im personally a harpie player though digital, ive found much success but only after learning how the meta decks work and its allowed me to build around better counter stratergies
To the point of Blackwings, I feel they have a solid matchup against sky strikers. Their new Armor Master is basically an easier to summon raidraptor - ultimate falcon.
Yeah, I'm just returning to the game now, and I'm getting back into it with Galaxy Eyes. Mainly because it was my first real deck way back when and let me tell you, the meta is unforgiving for this type of deck. But, as you say, it's important to realise that this is due to issues with the compatibility of my deck with the meta, and it can and will be remedied. Although to be honest, I'm going to need to do a lot more research. Not a lot of people play in belfast as far as I'm aware
and here i am with flower cardians and pure psyframe, both of which ive spent since their respective releases perfecting. if you know the game well, you can make unpopular decks work. sure most of the time you wont have the consistency for any big tournaments, but with those 2 decks ive mentioned, ive done really well at locals and regionals in the past
Triamid monsters are probably my favorite rogue deck. People always ask if they're new and then try to figure out what everything does cause they revolve around themselves with minor need of support from outside cards. Most fun I've had was playing rock-type monsters only and getting the main powerhouse card to over 10k Atk in a short time and one of the weaker monster's Def to 8k. Only uses 3 extra deck cards (all the same monster also rock-type and only for emergencies) but the rest pretty much runs itself. Sometimes they beat meta decks other times they don't mostly due to luck. I'd say the biggest counter are the Dracos and Dinosaur flip everyone face-down bs. Overall it's still fun to play it so it works for me.
Since you mentioned YGOPro, while definitely play testing against meta decks irl is the best way to go about it, I think there's probably some benefit to going on YGOPro (or a similar program/website) and playing the meta decks yourself and seeing how they work so you can think "Okay this is how this deck works; does the deck I want to play have an out to this, and if not what can I do about it?"
I'm really excited for this trap video coming up. I love my yosenju deck but it hasnt been performing quite to the standard that I want so I've been playing orcust at tournaments since I do better
This is something that many magic play groups do if their teammates don't don't have all the meta decks. You should proxy the decks you don't have so that you can playtest against them. The cost is low and as long as the keep the lists up to date it is a viable option for testing.
This one hit hard as a Heroes player, but it makes sense. Heroes don’t have much of a response to stopping negations, in spite of having a few strong cards that hold the opponent back, not to mention they have to have specific cards in their hand when going first or second, and their combos are almost always 2 or more cards.
There's 3 kinds of rogue players. First, the kind who play a deck because they like it even if they know its not viable, because it's fun or they like the lore/nostalgia/artwork etc. Or it's the deck they have and are not trying to spend a lot changing a bunch. No problem with this, its a game after all. Second, the kind who are making a meta call. They think it's a sleeper deck, surprise factor that people won't side against, good matchups, all that. No problem with this either, should be done more often IMO. The third is this group of people who THINK they are so good at the game that they are above playing meta decks, they talk shit and think that meta decks are for scrubs, and because they are soooo good that they play rogue. They get a hard on thinking about how a month ago they won dice roll and won vs Sky Striker 2-1 and won locals. They never touch a meta deck because "its too easy", but give them a meta deck to mess around with and they would misplay the hell out of it. They don't learn how the meta decks play so they don't understand the intricacies of a tier 1 mirror match or the value of a side deck. These people are the most annoying because rather than accepting they are bad players that should improve, or accepting that they are a casual player (which isn't a bad thing), they live in this self-deception of being better than everyone else.
Also new and returning players who watch one Azneyes video or CapG or TeamSam video and think their 5 card combo Shapesnatch FTK that can be stopped by Ash will actually succeed competitively.
Lol, I'm the first type. But it just sucks how hard it is to find an opponent who is as evenly matched as my tribute toolbox deck that has Light Ruler, Kaijus, and Dakini.
This idea actually applies to all competitive card games. I remember back when I was competitively into Magic: The Gathering that one of the guys that I played with worked on trading for and buying the cards for one of the most Meta deck so that we could all test our decks against it.
I ditto your notion zeef. Likewise I made the most research, progress and most well equipped naturally that my valkyries are now topping events and locals is no longer a deck that solid outs mine.
Depends what type of rogue decks you build. There's the literal anti meta rogue decks that are toxic af. Some fun types. Some fringe meta tier stuff. Gimmick strats.
You're absolutely correct on needing to know meta decks very well. You also generally need a wider knowledge of cards you essentially have to get into all the eras of cards and start figuring out cross generational stuff. There's certain times you can heavily increase viability that way as well, unusual card choice leads to weird situation match up favors. And sometimes you can fill the dead spots in a deck. Another thing to consider is not necessarily aiming for a 40 card deck. You really need to test deck size card choice draw rates and combos. In the older days like up to 2010ish I had some rogue decks that were essentially top tier competitive due to weird card selection. And around dragon rulers I managed to update a few older meta decks to be meta tier again with new cards and an engine transfer into a new deck similarly played but now mixed themes. Some old cards can combo really well with modern boss monsters and vice versa.
Storming, raigeki, and just a hint of kaiju tends to do wonders for that. Also, there is now a meteor that helps mitigate getting around big first turn boards when you lose that coin flip.
You are absolutely right. It is much easier to construct a rogue deck and even beat meta decks when you know how they are played and then you can build better going against them.
Here’s the harsh truth, with rogue, it’s all about the pilot. I’ve beaten true Draco with cyber dragons, and I’ve lost to timelords with cyber dragons. It all comes down to three things: How you built the deck How you play the deck How you are able to predict the meta Dzeef is very much so correct about these topics. But the real strength of rogue decks is the element of surprise. Which is why Altergeist is so successful. When multifaker was hit, nobody expected Altergeist, dzeef took advantage and got his top. That was a smart meta call. For me, I play inferno reckless summon as a 2 of for a recovery option in cyber dragons. Not only is it a quickplay but it’s essentially soul charge and machine dupe in one card which is very powerful. Tech cards are essential for rogue strategies to keep the meta on its toes. But dzeef took it one step further and played a whole deck not many people were anticipating. I’d say he’s earned his top for that call alone.
I just did something similar this past weekend at my first major event. I went to the Toronto regional playing Prank-Kids and I went out of my way to get in extra practice against my locals friends playing meta decks. The event itself was a lot different from both that and practicing online. I was thinking of trying out a going second Magical Musketeers build, but this video did open my eyes up to a few things (mainly knowing if the deck is a good match up against the meta).
For example, I love Nordics, their mechanics are too slow compared to nowadays Yu-Gi-Oh but I tested a lot a build I made myself and it works well against some Meta decks like Salamangreats and that Gren Maju Golden Castle of Stromberg deck. Just ordered all the cards and I'm waiting for them to arrive. I played just online and with proxie cards
That “I didn’t test” mentality comes from the old metagame.com articles where players used to say I “switched decks last night” or “dale bellido gave me the deck this morning.”
I want to make something a little bit like Vanguard, where every Archetype gets updated every time there’s a new mechanic. That way almost every Class, Archetype, Clan, etc. is competitively viable.
I always make top 4 at my locals with Crusadi kaiju, i am gonna see how invoked mekk knight artifact will do, if i can get scythe out hey i could top 4 lol
personally i'm not very interested in being a top tier player. rogue vs rogue are my favourite duels i've had. i've watched meta vs meta duels and they just don't seem as fun to me. right now my fave rogue is LoD. i like its monster removal and some lucky wins along the way is fun :D some times i'm even playing a trash meme deck just for giggles. celtic guardian at my locals was funny, it wasn't about winning it was just how high i could make celtic guardians atk. when a player looks over and see's a celtic guard at 7000+ ATK and laughs i consider that a win.
Exactly my dude. We aren’t going to be playing yugioh forever. I’d rather spend this time having fun and not treating it like a job because I know that even if I win nationals, eventually we’ll have nothing to show for it but memories, and we’ll be wishing we could just kick back and play a game with a Hungry Burger Turbo deck.
You're talkin' mad shit for someone in raikiri distance I'm also the guy who plays ancient gears I'm also the guy who entirely wrote off simone the poison mist as a waste of deckspace. I now accept its potential and sidedeck it I often dont know what to stop in combos(thats a judgement i have to play by ear). I know the decks weakness is my easy spot removal, this is why i have no out to the card "there can be only one". That card, as soon as it hits the field, neuters my deck. I at least like to know the downfalls of my deck But then i also dont care about tournaments
I think that how Davinator put it was interesting: a rogue strategy most probably lacks consistency, because the reason why it was played in the first place it's probably a high power ceiling, great combos that will make you win games but not consistently enough. So to get back to what you said, preparing for the meta decks that you will encounter is the best way to increase consistency. Then there are some people that just play decks because they like the archetype, no matter the power or consistency of it, but in that case probably they would lose also most of the matches on ygopro
It’s funny how as a rogue player, you walk into locals / regionals and you already know how to play the meta deck without even touching it because of how much research is required to play against one. However, I had no idea until today exchange was actually a tech option people use to stop handtraps
i generally think my meta call is trap decks in general right now. Altergeists, Traptrix, maybe Counter Fairy's with three judgement and three strike. This generally is because with Nibiru in the game people are going to have to try and figuring out how to play their decks in strange new ways, to get around Nibiru. Playing deck that does less summoning and isnt too worried about the new mega tin cards is honestly a good call right now because well other decks are still figuring themselves out, trap decks and control decks can stay at full power, and use the new cards to have an even better matchup.
Now I am glad that my brother is getting into strikers and I have salamengreat and six sams to test against it and he has also got into trickstar as a Rouge option.
I think a great example of what your trying to say is the couple guys who brought pure lunalight to a ycs awhile back. While they admitted that there were other reasons for the deck choice, they also mentioned how they believed it had a good match up against the other meta decks. This along with nobody knowing how they work allowed one member of their group to win the event. It can also be about timing, after a large banlist or a set release is a poor time to try out rogue strategies, as people are more prepared for an unexpected deck and choose to bring less specific side deck cards that are useful for the old meta but also useful against rogue strategies. Rogue strategies that are made with the intent to do well should be designed to counter the current meta.
Just play the deck you like no matter if its meta antimeta rogue tier 6 or the worst.Just like it thats the pointment in yugioh. my whole locals expect my friends tease me because i play dark magician but i dont mind them.just play what you like
Hello! Thanks for this interesting vidoo. I had a question regarding playtesting, I hope it won't be a stupid one... I.ve proxies of most of the metadecks at home, so, when there.s nobody to train with me, do you think it can be helpful to play against myself? I mean, plying the deck i want to practice with and the one i.d like to train against... Or is it just stupid and unproductive?
Playing Danger Zombies with Rivalry splashed in. On the sim I win almost every game with a 50/50 in singles against Guardragon and Mystic Mine decks (side for them) and 90/10 against everything else. It's a pretty good rogue deck but cant really run hand traps well withouth them being dead draws to often. Places high at my locals pretty often too despite not being done.
The thing about a rouge deck is that you by definition can't play Deep-Eyes White Dragon which means you're not relying on your own skill to win so much as you're relying on your opponent not drawing/searching Deep-Eyes White Dragon which in turn means that statistically you won't win at least 30% of the time from that alone.
How useful do you think playing against yourself is? (using something to control both your own deck and some deck you are worried about the mu for to see who wins). Seems more readily accessible than always only testing vs real people, but more comprehensive than only doing test hands with your own deck.
I'm using a dragon deck with really no theme, I need deck advice, what should I add Also, I refuse to use link monsters, so that takes a few off of the table
I only build Rogue decks. I love my Toons and Harpie decks. I build with the best strategies in mind but I prefer the fun factor over that guaranteed W.
"You need to know how to play the meta decks" This needed to be said? People actually didn't get this? _Seriously?_ Of course you'd need to know how, if you don't know what the hell the other person is playing your non-meta strategies fall flat against their probably much faster speed and/or consistency. Even playing against rogue strats you usually want to know which card you want to hit, rather than which card they're probably just using to bait you. It's why rogue strats win sometimes after all... The meta players don't bother to read those cards in this age, they usually wait until some other crazy manages to make some innovation for them. As a result if an actually decent rogue strategy comes by they have no idea what the hell to actually do to react. Of course, if said actually decent rogue strat _doesn't_ know the meta, they'll try to hit say... A special summon effect when the entire deck is _filled_ with effects that spam specials, or hit a search against a deck that has a large number of search cards, when they only have one or two negates to work with to begin with, and those negates take a lot more resources to expend than their opponents would have needed. I would know, I've run into these situations enough times online against decks I know nothing about, but those losses should usually be used as learning moments... _It's a basic part of human development._
“It’s not about the deck, it’s about sending a message.” - Supreme King Society Dragon, 2019.
Why I Play rogue: I want to win, but I want to have fun doing it.
Good summerization.
I like pure Thunder Dragons, and they happen to be meta, but except that I only ever play rogue.
Personally im an Orcust man myself.
FACTS
Why I play rogue...
Cause red-eyes black dragon, man.... the nostalgia, cards look cool, and frankly, I don't ever seem myself ever going anywhere near the finals.
I'm sensing another "Commenters Don't Understand" video soon.
"Commenters Don't Understand Trap Cards"
You’re a gay
Yeezy Sneezy “Commenters Don’t Understand Gays.”
@@StephenG994 Commenters don't understand grammar.
Ed Boon can you hear the wooooosh?
I will continue to show up to Regionals with my Mokey Mokey deck.
I want a Profile! I love Mokey Mokey, but i don't play Yu-gi-oh outside the new videogame and I don't get any Mokey Mokey cards yet.
You may play Mokey Mokey but do you summon it in defense modey modey?
deadpool cosplays stuff some wear question marks
Stale meme
A legend awaken
The truth is that Doug hates Rogue decks, because he has played such meta decks as frogs, fluffals, and Altergeists. He just doesn't understand that Pot of Desires is a - 9.
Ah crap what if I -9 and lose my black luster ritual spell card?
Fluffals? META??? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Pxl Ninja wym they’re super meta tier one
@@PxlNinja r/wooosh
r/ihavereddit
"so here's my glad beast deck"
*reveals the orcust package*
Hey guys, here's my new Vanilla Beatdown Deck. Let's start with the best card in the deck, Knightmare Iblee.
Oh man i love glad beasts so sad they never get anything done properly
Goal: Make your opponent say "impossible!" when you win
Just to hit them with a "Yare yare daze" and lay down your five pieces of Exodia.
When I got back into Yu-Gi-Oh I started with a Lunalight deck and went to Locals, and even though I got pretty high up the Orchist player I went againt helped me learn more about how Orchist played. And even though I haven't repeated that, the local scene has helped cultivate me and tweak my deck and explore new things about how the games are played. I'm more thankful to the fact that I'm getting better with help from mates at locals than I am with the fact I placed in a Locals tournament. Because these experiences help me get better and more confident.
My locals has an event where people can duel against currently meta decks and learn how to combat them.
It's a really cool event as the store employees are really friendly and go out of their way to learn the decks their using so they can teach other players how to both use them and fight them.
I don't really have anything to add, just that stories like yours and Andrew's below make my heart warm and fuzzy. That and probably the clogged arteries, but that is beside the point.
My only problem is that I love Yu-Gi-Oh but I don't have any shops here so I can play just against my friends and it's not the same
*Commenters don't understand how to win with Rogue decks*
Oh, snap! Yo, Brandon! It's me, Gus! How you doing, man?
@@OmniGman oh shit hows it goin man. How are you??
@@brandonmedina3993 I'm good. Me, Candice, and Gary all live and work in Japan now, though Candice and Gary are on the east side while I'm on the west.
@@OmniGman Yeah i heard man thats great. I still play zombies with Thomas and Gary from time to time. Hows the Japan life treatin ya?
@@brandonmedina3993 It's so much cleaner here. I'm loving it despite basically being by myself here (Thomas and Candice & Gary are in different cities/regions). Also my apartment is in a good spot that's close to everything I need and I work overall less, so Japan has been a blessing for me.
How are you doing? Any plans about going anywhere else in Asia?
Great video! As a returning player this was true back in 2005 & very true now. Learn to playtest right b4 taking your deck to a larger event.
This was true back when I started as well. Also a returning player from....."the game was rather new in the states". "Also an OG 1994 MTG player."
Everyone thinks they have the secret sauce robot win but the reality is that you're probably just using expired ranch dressing
You don't need to try justifying your love of altergeist. We understand.
U love it that's all that matters I love choas maxx and blue eyes decks
Acknowledgement, acceptance, preparation, evolving, and practice. 5 Steps to becoming a better duelist!
Thank you. while watching this video you help me better understand and help me put into words things I've been trying to explain for a long time!
Nice try, but I will still play Volcanics.
Day 192 of waiting for new Volcanic support to arrive
Didn't you write "192 of waiting" yesterday?
@@drakerapper8050 Maybe because it was past midnight so a new day started?
Feeling the same about Madolches. Love that you're counting the days 😂😂
Austin Hurt madolches just got new support bro in savage strike and dark neostorm.
@@phantomkaiba8727 Should've specified I'll still continue playing them after watching the video. I know Puddingcesseur and Glassoufle exist
When someone asks why I play rogue decks and not meta my answer is I don’t have the money that’s how you shut up the meta players
Riku DreamEater I have no money also. I play crusadias
No fancy dangers or guardragons though
Meta decks are actually pretty cheap these days compared to meta decks in the past just sayin 😂
I am going to buy guardragons, just haven’t yet
But I play black garden crusadias, so I didn’t need them at the second I got them, but I plan to buy elpy 100%
Something Jeff Jones said in the HouseofChamps charity stream was that his favorite top was the one with psychics. It was an inferior strategy he had to get lucky with but the innovation aspect of the deck transcended all of his other tops with meta.
Something I consider when I think about playing the game now and how, when I walk away from the game, I’ll remember why I put hours of my life into something. I don’t think there’s the same one answer for everyone but I know for certain that playing the game unuawarely passing time (asleep) is not the way
What do you mean Krawlers aren't viable /s
So you are saying that my Exodia Watapon Stall deck cannot win???
[insert that Skinner meme here]
Am I playing decks without playtesting or preparing them?
No, it's the players who are sacking me.
Lmao
Got to admit, I laughed harder then I should at this XD
I never really realized how awkward Kagari's proportions are. I get that it's a mech body, but still, it just looks off putting. I guess that's the price you have to pay if you wanna be a meta deck.
You may not like it but that is what peak performance looks like.
Wrong
To all competitive Yu-Gi-Oh players:
So a Brand New employee has just been hired at a Lab.
“Hi. I’m new here.”
“Hey! Welcome to the Lab.”
“Quick Question: what is that lab down that hall?”
“Oh! That’s the Yu-Gi-Oh Lab.”
“What’s it for?”
“Currently there are Deck experiments going on in there.”
This sounds like how duel academy started.... basically soon we're gonna be playing on motorcycles
To be fair to all those who play "Rogue" decks, technically every "Meta" deck was once a "Rogue" deck, someone had to start playing them first. That being said, it is very important, just as Doug mentioned, for anyone playing any deck to understand the workings of the decks they might come up against which, most likely, will be "Meta" decks. Just make sure whatever deck you're playing you have fun playing it, otherwise...what's the point xD
I understand where you're coming from, but I think that you're overlooking something. When a pack comes out that releases a new archetype, if that archetype immediately starts topping tons of tournaments the very first weekend, then it never had a chance to be rogue. Rogue is more about representation and success than time, so if a deck is successful right of the the gate it would be meta right away
@@Dzeeff - True, however the players that immediately started topping with those new archetypes still made the decision to take those new archetypes to those tournaments. At the time, since those archetypes would have just came out and the tournaments would be the first with them available, taking those new decks could be a risk instead of taking a more known deck that has been "Meta" before the release of the new archetype(s). It's awesome when a new archetype ends up being really good and catches on, but that isn't always the case. Unless you're referring to just the TCG, in which case I would say that yes it is possible for a deck to technically be "Meta" right from the release (kind of), but that is mainly due to the deck already having been seen heavily in the OCG and gaining in popularity over there. Which, still someone or some people would have had to make the decision to play those archetypes over there first and just so happen to have done very well with them. Either way, it takes someone or some people to show the greatness of a deck or series of combos before it really catches on and becomes "Meta". In order for a deck to have representation, it must first be seen at tournaments, which doesn't happen if people don't first make the decision to build those very new and unknown (unless they were seen from the OCG) decks first. With everything there is always a beginning and end. I see what you're saying though, cheers! :)
I think people need to accept that it's ok to play rogue and not be able to beat meta 90% of the time. That's part of the fun really, being forced to be at the top of your game to beat people who can easily kill you 3 different ways if you're not careful or even the slightest bit unlucky.
commenters dont understand commenters dont understand videos
Would you be interested in doing a video or maybe even series on the history of successful rogue strategies? I've been meaning to ask this for some time and I think you're the right person for the job.
*commenters don't understand incoming*
Im Not playing Rough, Tier 1, 2 or 3
I play Duel Links Meta Decks in RL
I think Cyber Angels, Vendreads etc. are cool.
Vendread Ritual is actually my favourite deck, so I was really excited for Avendread Savior's release.
For me coming back to Yugioh after like 12 13 years, i felt comfortable playing Six Samurai, which i later learned was a rogue deck, but i feel that with upcoming cards and maybe some creative deck building, i think it can be pushed into a competitive value. i love the deck as well so that adds to the usage hahaha
As a long time fan of blackwings, and being that blackwing player that never tops anything anymore, I’m just glad to be acknowledged. I will probably keep playing this deck until I just give up on playing and go on to just being a collector
Is Altergeist considered rogue in TCG?
Its completely meta here in OCG
maxx c pretty much is love for altergeist and this is why that card is importatant that an the fact ocg are very creativ with their list
As someone who plays a lot of rogue decks, mostly Nekroz and Dark Magician, I play mostly against friends and I try out decks online before I purchase anything, so I can understand how the decks works. I’m actually looking into trying Sky Strikers so I can see how the deck works and see if I like it.
Tindangle Beatdown is the best rogue strategy in the meta!
I love playing E Heroes and as someone who failed to win his first locals, I can understand that beating a friend or a sibling is one thing and being a pro is another. As also a budget player/ casual, its rather frustrating to get the money to attempt to practice against meta decks with a rogue deck like mine. Especially when I’m just using the E Heroes archetype
Is it pure E-Heroes or do you tech in things like D- or Vision-Heroes?
Since you called it E Heroes, I assume you don't play Neos.
I've been out of the game competitively for the last few years since Links came out but I'll give my 2 cents. You're 100% correct, playing a rogue dead is a double edged sword. You will beat some meta decks just because the players aren't ready for you but if you didn't prepare for the meta decks and thought your rogue deck would win on that alone the results will only disappoint. I like to think there are two types of Rogue Deck players. People who just want to make "their" deck playable in a competitive tournament and those those use a rogue deck because they know they can use it to counter what the meta is today. There is nothing wrong with that person trying to make a Dark Magician Deck work in a YCS, if they work hard and understand the meta they might find they can do well. They most likely won't get top but they can do well. If you're someone that uses a rogue deck because it counters the meta that's just smart play, but it's going to piss people off. Players don't like sudden shifts in the meta because it's not something they can prepare for so to them a loss to a rogue deck they feel is less about them playing badly and more about the bad luck that they had to face the rogue deck.
Yo youre the first pro who acknowledged that you can be successful with a rogue deck if youre smart about it. So many people just say its impossible with a rogue deck. Thank you, im personally a harpie player though digital, ive found much success but only after learning how the meta decks work and its allowed me to build around better counter stratergies
I believe that the best way to play Yu-Gi-Oh is just use decks you like and think are fun. Being successful doesn't matter if you have fun
To the point of Blackwings, I feel they have a solid matchup against sky strikers. Their new Armor Master is basically an easier to summon raidraptor - ultimate falcon.
Yeah, I'm just returning to the game now, and I'm getting back into it with Galaxy Eyes. Mainly because it was my first real deck way back when and let me tell you, the meta is unforgiving for this type of deck. But, as you say, it's important to realise that this is due to issues with the compatibility of my deck with the meta, and it can and will be remedied. Although to be honest, I'm going to need to do a lot more research. Not a lot of people play in belfast as far as I'm aware
Galaxy Photon is in a much better position through the last year than it's ever been before. Photon Lord gave the deck a real strength to lean on.
I Remember winning local tournament with multiple piece golem deck ahhhhhh the good old days.
I like casual most and rouge sometimes but hate hate combo lamo. Good video I know it's been a while
Can't wait for the next video
I'm new and I'm playing traptrix so I'd love your insight!
I'm still waiting for someone to beat my Obelisk Turbo Spam deck...i'm 89-0 at my locals
I pray that this is bait
Decklist ?
🤣🤣🤣
Your insights on the game is really good. I play casually and play Hero's. Love my Hero's. I play for fun and have fun. Thanks for all the info
and here i am with flower cardians and pure psyframe, both of which ive spent since their respective releases perfecting.
if you know the game well, you can make unpopular decks work. sure most of the time you wont have the consistency for any big tournaments, but with those 2 decks ive mentioned, ive done really well at locals and regionals in the past
Triamid monsters are probably my favorite rogue deck. People always ask if they're new and then try to figure out what everything does cause they revolve around themselves with minor need of support from outside cards. Most fun I've had was playing rock-type monsters only and getting the main powerhouse card to over 10k Atk in a short time and one of the weaker monster's Def to 8k. Only uses 3 extra deck cards (all the same monster also rock-type and only for emergencies) but the rest pretty much runs itself. Sometimes they beat meta decks other times they don't mostly due to luck. I'd say the biggest counter are the Dracos and Dinosaur flip everyone face-down bs. Overall it's still fun to play it so it works for me.
Best decks will always be, Ojamas, Black Luster Soldier, and Celtic Guardians
Since you mentioned YGOPro, while definitely play testing against meta decks irl is the best way to go about it, I think there's probably some benefit to going on YGOPro (or a similar program/website) and playing the meta decks yourself and seeing how they work so you can think "Okay this is how this deck works; does the deck I want to play have an out to this, and if not what can I do about it?"
I'm really excited for this trap video coming up. I love my yosenju deck but it hasnt been performing quite to the standard that I want so I've been playing orcust at tournaments since I do better
This is something that many magic play groups do if their teammates don't don't have all the meta decks. You should proxy the decks you don't have so that you can playtest against them. The cost is low and as long as the keep the lists up to date it is a viable option for testing.
Rouge player goal is to have fun duel, to pull off that satisfying rouge win. The sense of overcoming..
“Rogue One a Budget History”
eww
This one hit hard as a Heroes player, but it makes sense.
Heroes don’t have much of a response to stopping negations, in spite of having a few strong cards that hold the opponent back, not to mention they have to have specific cards in their hand when going first or second, and their combos are almost always 2 or more cards.
Sevenizer1 I think with the format slowing down, and hero able to play hand traps, I think that hero isn’t that far off from being dexent,
@@bdc_ky your crazy, heroes are a lot better than decent, their a solid tier 2 imo
I don't care what you say Doug, I'm topping a ycs with my rogue ghostrick/ fur hire/ super heavy samurai deck!!!
There's 3 kinds of rogue players.
First, the kind who play a deck because they like it even if they know its not viable, because it's fun or they like the lore/nostalgia/artwork etc. Or it's the deck they have and are not trying to spend a lot changing a bunch. No problem with this, its a game after all.
Second, the kind who are making a meta call. They think it's a sleeper deck, surprise factor that people won't side against, good matchups, all that. No problem with this either, should be done more often IMO.
The third is this group of people who THINK they are so good at the game that they are above playing meta decks, they talk shit and think that meta decks are for scrubs, and because they are soooo good that they play rogue. They get a hard on thinking about how a month ago they won dice roll and won vs Sky Striker 2-1 and won locals. They never touch a meta deck because "its too easy", but give them a meta deck to mess around with and they would misplay the hell out of it. They don't learn how the meta decks play so they don't understand the intricacies of a tier 1 mirror match or the value of a side deck. These people are the most annoying because rather than accepting they are bad players that should improve, or accepting that they are a casual player (which isn't a bad thing), they live in this self-deception of being better than everyone else.
You forgot the broke ass guys that can't afford a Mega deck and they use a Rougue deck.
And then there's me
who just thinks it's a great challenge to play rogue (for example paleo at the moment)
Also new and returning players who watch one Azneyes video or CapG or TeamSam video and think their 5 card combo Shapesnatch FTK that can be stopped by Ash will actually succeed competitively.
Lol, I'm the first type. But it just sucks how hard it is to find an opponent who is as evenly matched as my tribute toolbox deck that has Light Ruler, Kaijus, and Dakini.
@@Ms666slayer literally the first one I listed
This idea actually applies to all competitive card games. I remember back when I was competitively into Magic: The Gathering that one of the guys that I played with worked on trading for and buying the cards for one of the most Meta deck so that we could all test our decks against it.
I ditto your notion zeef. Likewise I made the most research, progress and most well equipped naturally that my valkyries are now topping events and locals is no longer a deck that solid outs mine.
Depends what type of rogue decks you build. There's the literal anti meta rogue decks that are toxic af. Some fun types. Some fringe meta tier stuff. Gimmick strats.
You're absolutely correct on needing to know meta decks very well. You also generally need a wider knowledge of cards you essentially have to get into all the eras of cards and start figuring out cross generational stuff. There's certain times you can heavily increase viability that way as well, unusual card choice leads to weird situation match up favors. And sometimes you can fill the dead spots in a deck.
Another thing to consider is not necessarily aiming for a 40 card deck. You really need to test deck size card choice draw rates and combos.
In the older days like up to 2010ish I had some rogue decks that were essentially top tier competitive due to weird card selection.
And around dragon rulers I managed to update a few older meta decks to be meta tier again with new cards and an engine transfer into a new deck similarly played but now mixed themes.
Some old cards can combo really well with modern boss monsters and vice versa.
Well structured and well written.
Hope he mentions Traptrix in his next video, I really love the deck, bud damn, going 2nd can REALLY suck with that deck :(
Storming, raigeki, and just a hint of kaiju tends to do wonders for that. Also, there is now a meteor that helps mitigate getting around big first turn boards when you lose that coin flip.
What do you mean that galaxy eyes are rouge? I AM MAKING THEM META!!
Haha
You are absolutely right. It is much easier to construct a rogue deck and even beat meta decks when you know how they are played and then you can build better going against them.
Here’s the harsh truth, with rogue, it’s all about the pilot. I’ve beaten true Draco with cyber dragons, and I’ve lost to timelords with cyber dragons. It all comes down to three things:
How you built the deck
How you play the deck
How you are able to predict the meta
Dzeef is very much so correct about these topics. But the real strength of rogue decks is the element of surprise. Which is why Altergeist is so successful. When multifaker was hit, nobody expected Altergeist, dzeef took advantage and got his top. That was a smart meta call.
For me, I play inferno reckless summon as a 2 of for a recovery option in cyber dragons. Not only is it a quickplay but it’s essentially soul charge and machine dupe in one card which is very powerful. Tech cards are essential for rogue strategies to keep the meta on its toes. But dzeef took it one step further and played a whole deck not many people were anticipating. I’d say he’s earned his top for that call alone.
Hey :/ i play blackwings and I love them :/
I just did something similar this past weekend at my first major event. I went to the Toronto regional playing Prank-Kids and I went out of my way to get in extra practice against my locals friends playing meta decks. The event itself was a lot different from both that and practicing online.
I was thinking of trying out a going second Magical Musketeers build, but this video did open my eyes up to a few things (mainly knowing if the deck is a good match up against the meta).
For example, I love Nordics, their mechanics are too slow compared to nowadays Yu-Gi-Oh but I tested a lot a build I made myself and it works well against some Meta decks like Salamangreats and that Gren Maju Golden Castle of Stromberg deck. Just ordered all the cards and I'm waiting for them to arrive. I played just online and with proxie cards
That “I didn’t test” mentality comes from the old metagame.com articles where players used to say I “switched decks last night” or “dale bellido gave me the deck this morning.”
Just finished Fur Hires, despite losing alot with it, I love the deck ^-^
I once ran a Hazy Kaiju Zoodiac deck in MR3, I won so many games with that deck, no one knew what it did. Fun times
I want to make something a little bit like Vanguard, where every Archetype gets updated every time there’s a new mechanic. That way almost every Class, Archetype, Clan, etc. is competitively viable.
I always make top 4 at my locals with Crusadi kaiju, i am gonna see how invoked mekk knight artifact will do, if i can get scythe out hey i could top 4 lol
I have a orcrust mekk-knight kiju deck and its petty fun. Definitely a go scond deck
personally i'm not very interested in being a top tier player. rogue vs rogue are my favourite duels i've had. i've watched meta vs meta duels and they just don't seem as fun to me. right now my fave rogue is LoD. i like its monster removal and some lucky wins along the way is fun :D
some times i'm even playing a trash meme deck just for giggles. celtic guardian at my locals was funny, it wasn't about winning it was just how high i could make celtic guardians atk. when a player looks over and see's a celtic guard at 7000+ ATK and laughs i consider that a win.
Exactly my dude. We aren’t going to be playing yugioh forever. I’d rather spend this time having fun and not treating it like a job because I know that even if I win nationals, eventually we’ll have nothing to show for it but memories, and we’ll be wishing we could just kick back and play a game with a Hungry Burger Turbo deck.
Zombies are RIGHT there so close to getting out of Rogue status but knowing that Super Poly is getting limited at some point hurts it's future
12:40 the power of friendship :')
the OG yugioh gang would be proud
Rogue Decks are awesome. Your opponent kicking ass with their Dragon Link Deck? BOOM Mystic Mine. BOOM Cyber Dragon Infinity.
You're talkin' mad shit for someone in raikiri distance
I'm also the guy who plays ancient gears
I'm also the guy who entirely wrote off simone the poison mist as a waste of deckspace. I now accept its potential and sidedeck it
I often dont know what to stop in combos(thats a judgement i have to play by ear). I know the decks weakness is my easy spot removal, this is why i have no out to the card "there can be only one". That card, as soon as it hits the field, neuters my deck.
I at least like to know the downfalls of my deck
But then i also dont care about tournaments
I think that how Davinator put it was interesting: a rogue strategy most probably lacks consistency, because the reason why it was played in the first place it's probably a high power ceiling, great combos that will make you win games but not consistently enough. So to get back to what you said, preparing for the meta decks that you will encounter is the best way to increase consistency.
Then there are some people that just play decks because they like the archetype, no matter the power or consistency of it, but in that case probably they would lose also most of the matches on ygopro
It’s funny how as a rogue player, you walk into locals / regionals and you already know how to play the meta deck without even touching it because of how much research is required to play against one. However, I had no idea until today exchange was actually a tech option people use to stop handtraps
i generally think my meta call is trap decks in general right now. Altergeists, Traptrix, maybe Counter Fairy's with three judgement and three strike. This generally is because with Nibiru in the game people are going to have to try and figuring out how to play their decks in strange new ways, to get around Nibiru. Playing deck that does less summoning and isnt too worried about the new mega tin cards is honestly a good call right now because well other decks are still figuring themselves out, trap decks and control decks can stay at full power, and use the new cards to have an even better matchup.
Chargeable121 maybe not traptrix. Frogs with a traptrix engine is better
Commenters Don't Understand Just How Much I Love Altergeists
Now I am glad that my brother is getting into strikers and I have salamengreat and six sams to test against it and he has also got into trickstar as a Rouge option.
I think a great example of what your trying to say is the couple guys who brought pure lunalight to a ycs awhile back. While they admitted that there were other reasons for the deck choice, they also mentioned how they believed it had a good match up against the other meta decks. This along with nobody knowing how they work allowed one member of their group to win the event. It can also be about timing, after a large banlist or a set release is a poor time to try out rogue strategies, as people are more prepared for an unexpected deck and choose to bring less specific side deck cards that are useful for the old meta but also useful against rogue strategies. Rogue strategies that are made with the intent to do well should be designed to counter the current meta.
Galaxy eyes smashes everything!!!
Cyber dragons too!!!
Hi what is the budget to extravagance
Just play the deck you like no matter if its meta antimeta rogue tier 6 or the worst.Just like it thats the pointment in yugioh. my whole locals expect my friends tease me because i play dark magician but i dont mind them.just play what you like
I really like this video. Its very motivating
Have you tried cyber dragons?
Hello! Thanks for this interesting vidoo. I had a question regarding playtesting, I hope it won't be a stupid one... I.ve proxies of most of the metadecks at home, so, when there.s nobody to train with me, do you think it can be helpful to play against myself? I mean, plying the deck i want to practice with and the one i.d like to train against... Or is it just stupid and unproductive?
Playing Danger Zombies with Rivalry splashed in. On the sim I win almost every game with a 50/50 in singles against Guardragon and Mystic Mine decks (side for them) and 90/10 against everything else. It's a pretty good rogue deck but cant really run hand traps well withouth them being dead draws to often. Places high at my locals pretty often too despite not being done.
Doug zeef doesn't understand that magic cylinder was just in a deck that topped.
Exodia Decks did that actually happen?
@@xxderpydougexx5113 it did. A crazy trap trix player topped with it mained as a trap trick target
@@xxderpydougexx5113 apparently it was used against double or nothing at least once
Dang
Can you put decklist
I love playing gravekeeper stun, how 2 cards counter the majority of the meta
Making a return after 2 years, this has always been true in the beginning and now.
The thing about a rouge deck is that you by definition can't play Deep-Eyes White Dragon which means you're not relying on your own skill to win so much as you're relying on your opponent not drawing/searching Deep-Eyes White Dragon which in turn means that statistically you won't win at least 30% of the time from that alone.
That's why I have a competitive deck and a non-meta one. Plot Twist: Both are my favorite cards/archetypes. 😁
You have to know the rules very intimately to break them
How useful do you think playing against yourself is? (using something to control both your own deck and some deck you are worried about the mu for to see who wins). Seems more readily accessible than always only testing vs real people, but more comprehensive than only doing test hands with your own deck.
Question what if you can't learn all the decks because their are like twenty different decks and your just now getting back into the game
I'm using a dragon deck with really no theme, I need deck advice, what should I add
Also, I refuse to use link monsters, so that takes a few off of the table
I pooed on the floor & forgot about it then I walked back into the bathroom & it got smooshed so now I have a poo foot pls help
I only build Rogue decks. I love my Toons and Harpie decks. I build with the best strategies in mind but I prefer the fun factor over that guaranteed W.
"You need to know how to play the meta decks"
This needed to be said? People actually didn't get this? _Seriously?_
Of course you'd need to know how, if you don't know what the hell the other person is playing your non-meta strategies fall flat against their probably much faster speed and/or consistency.
Even playing against rogue strats you usually want to know which card you want to hit, rather than which card they're probably just using to bait you. It's why rogue strats win sometimes after all... The meta players don't bother to read those cards in this age, they usually wait until some other crazy manages to make some innovation for them. As a result if an actually decent rogue strategy comes by they have no idea what the hell to actually do to react.
Of course, if said actually decent rogue strat _doesn't_ know the meta, they'll try to hit say... A special summon effect when the entire deck is _filled_ with effects that spam specials, or hit a search against a deck that has a large number of search cards, when they only have one or two negates to work with to begin with, and those negates take a lot more resources to expend than their opponents would have needed. I would know, I've run into these situations enough times online against decks I know nothing about, but those losses should usually be used as learning moments... _It's a basic part of human development._