This video definitely needed to happen, I used to have this mentality that "oh I play my game and my opponent plays his game and we interact with like TT and Battle and that's it". After playing for a while, I learned that this game is DEFINITELY a 2 player game. Dzeeff, if you're reading this, you might remember me as the guy on your "nobody plays chaos max" video that said "oh, well chaos max is one of the best rituals". Love these discussion videos and have a genuine interest in what you say. Keep contenting my dude.
From what I've heard, Yugioh is one of the most "interactive card games" and that MtG and Hearthstone don't have anything resembling traps, hand traps, quick effects or stun cards. Then again, they have a "manner" system which stops the crazy combos whereas here cards that are OP have either costs or requirements.
@@pickyphysicsstudent201 MTG has cards resembling quick play spell cards which you can play from your hand during the opponent's turn (you still need to pay Mana tho.) Ygo is, by far, the most interactive tcg I know, though.
Xlord Day MtG and hearthstone both have set-up turns. MtG has instants, which function like handtraps and countertraps, as battle traps and removal. YGO is faster, but that only makes in more interactive if you claim a turn is a turn.
@@suddenllybah I meant that ygo does the most on the opponent's turn compared to any other tcg. There are even some decks that do more on the opponent's turn than their own (Psy, aka hand trap:the deck). Other card games may be more back and forth, but no such card game can ever compare to the satisfaction of flipping bottomless on the opponent's BLS, torrentialing their whole board, or putting a fissure face down, while pretending it's mirror force.
Xlord Eh, Draw-Go exists in MtG, in which the only play that happens on your turn is dropping a land, and the win condition is literally building up enough mana to animate a land for the rest of the game and attack your opponent. The fact that Yu-Gi-Oh requires that you represent most other players turn actions by putting a card facedown, (and giving your opponent the option to S/T removethem instead) is fairly unique. (M:tG works basically in inverse, most other players turn actions come from your hand, and self sacing for removal cards are somewhat rare, and very obvious about it. … Anyway, the fact is that it is unique in that manner. (The mechinic also kinda … doesn't work IRL if the game at all cares about hand size, see the the set you whole hand as Infernity play, even when you have multiple monster cards ruling for the game kinda not working.) But hey, searching the deck as a cost already exists...
I can definitely get this. When I sit down and make a deck, I do make theoretical combos and strats but mostly just consistency checking. But it doesn't matter how consistent it can be as long as it is flexible and can deal with the opponent.
Exactly, i play Dark Magicians which is not the best deck... we know this but it's all about your list. Play testing with the deck I'd win 7/10 duels. Like it's all about consistency.
@b Simply because it's a deck I'm passionate about. Granted i know there are better decks out there but I just love playing the deck. I don't hate on other players for playing better decks, I just love dark magicians.
I mean it's about bringing your own style to the game as well, also if I spend the money on these cards why not use them, look at all the others guys who religiously play Six Sams and Blue-Eyes. It's playing what you love. but of course learning the meta and adapting to it with what you are playing.
I actually like extra-linking, it gives people something to build towards which isn't just summoning a whole bunch of big monsters, each with some form of stun or negation. What I don't like is the frequency in which extra linking can be accomplished, right now it should be a "win more" strategy and not something which can be built on the first turn. Then again, that's like saying "I don't hate Shooting Quasar Dragon, I hate Level Eater." people just turn their brains off an can't identify the one problem card which allows for easy spamming on boards.
that's a pretty good comparison. i'm a sucker for things like shooting quasar, king calamity, assault mode, odd eyes raging dragon, or even timaeus knight of destiny, but on the other hand it's most often not worth the effort unless you build a deck that is decidcated to turboing that thing, which in turns takes the awesome out of it. I could at least see extra linking be something doable but hard to attain, and you would still have a decent win condition that is the armada of links you're playing to do that. Can't say as much for turbo quasar, alas.
@@chazzprinceton3892 This. The only thing I don't like about links is the fact that turn one my opponent can lock me out of extra deck plays almost entirely.
I've noticed the more popular the game, the more likely people will try Magical Christmas land decks. Magic, Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh have a lot of them, often because the casual formats are full of players doing that kind of stuff. Commander is an entire format of those players for MTG (am aware that there is different levels of play for commander, but people expect this kind of play from commander more than other formats). However smaller games, like any of Bushiroad's games that aren't Weiss, have these sort of strats be non-existent or have players that quickly realise that these sort of Christmas land strats just don't work, and I'm almost certain it's due to the smaller playerbase forcing people to optimise to the best players around, even with casual or budget play.
Probably one of the most idiotic popular mentalities I see. I'm an aggressive player, or used to be, but I always try to keep a backup strat in case my opponent turns things sour for me. -Unless I brick with the only 3 high level monsters in my deck and spells/traps in hand-
The issue is that a lot of people seem to really struggle in clearly seeing possible futures, or putting themselves in someone other's shoes. Every action you take in a competitive game will have a response. No sane person sits there and just lets it happen. Yet we so easily fall into the idea that we're the only conscious being with thoughts, because that's all we can experience is ourselves.
*Opponent looks at the top two cards of his deck* "If I would've had two more turns I would've drawn my Raigeki" *Looks at the top card of my deck* "My next draw was Anti-Raigeki..." You're right, a lot of people forget that if you get another two turns your opponent also gets another two turns. If you get your answer in a turn or two, odds are your opponent who's already ahead would've drawn answers for your answer.
I won world championship 2011 with ojama dark world's. Totally truthfully. I mean, the only difficult opponent I faced was 1 x-saber player, and his technical play was worse than ygopro AI, so...
When I first started playing my favorite effects were, "cannot be destroyed by..." or, "cannot be targeted by...". Now my favorite effects are, "during either players turn...". Thats why master peace and true draco as a whole was/is my favorite deck. Summoning master peace in the middle of an opponents play vs having him on the board in the first place made all the difference.
Dzeeff: "Outside of Gouki there are several stratrgies that go beyond turn 1" Farfa: "Whoa! Boarder, D Fissure, set 3! Thunder King?! Now put Fossil dyna on board! It's the last piece of the puzzle! IT'S THE LAST PIECE OF THE MILLENNIUM FKING PUZZLE!"
It's like if you're playing chess, but only think about your own strategy as opposed to what your opponent is planning and can do in response to your moves. It's like not putting in the work of thinking through the game.
I've been play testing with a friend once and I got rid of his biggest monster and he scooped once my play was done. He then checked the top of his deck and it was the out... he *still* had more than 3k Life Points but scooped because of a play I made that didn't really stop him from doing anything at all. I was more frustrated than he was. I.e. *Reasons you should never scoop in play testing*
I'm reminded of a time when I was playing Madolche (they were new and I like cute things) vs. Fire Fist and we both had loaded backrows and hands and were playing carefully not to give the other an advantage. A Magic player walks by and comments that our decks probably aren't very good, because nothing seems to be happening. He had borrowed an Inzektor deck some time earlier and tried the game, and had came to the conclusion that it was a very fast and random game. I asked him to stay and watch, because in time, something would happen. A few turns later, my opponent went for broke, I stopped his push and countered with my own (Ultimate Offering-fueled), completely obliterating him in one turn. The Magic player acknowledged that he had misread the situation - we had chosen not to attempt big plays, we hadn't been unable to. When he'd tried the game, he had just went for broke as soon as he could, not thinking of how he could be stopped. Sometimes that works, more often it doesn't. I've played both Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh, and this kind of dynamic exists in both games, so it's not like he couldn't have known, he just assumed YGO was a stupid simple kids' game.
So about the "If only I had one more turn" thing, I used to do that all the time, but I ended up physically stopping myself by never checking the top card of my deck after I lose. I might occasionally be like, "Where the hell were all my allures" and check that, but that's a different thing. Ever since I started doing that, I feel a lot better whenever I lose, which honestly happens a lot less now and it's probably only partially the decks I play. By thinking more in the moment, you can make your plays based on "what can I do right now? What is my best option right now?" Rather than "What will I be able to do with my next draw?" It really helps me with deck building, and it really helps me with being more confident in my playmaking, even if there was that one time at Yugioh Day that I lost a match because I tried to win on my terms rather than stalling my opponent out on Marshmallon and ran right into a mirror force, but those things happen. The point is, if anybody is struggling with the "one more turn" mentality, just don't check your next draws. It worked for me, so maybe it will work for somebody else.
Okay, I made this post a couple minutes before he said any of that, but it still kind of invalidates the post, but oh well. Guess I'll leave it at that.
And also, I find it very interesting that after playing a bunch of combo decks for extended periods of time, I got into this bizarre mentality of understanding that there are more turns than just the first and second, but I felt like they didn't really matter. Maybe it was the environment I was in, playing combo decks against things like Pendulum Magicians and True Draco Metalfoes, where if my first turn wasn't good enough I lost immediately, or at school playing against Satellerknights, Blue-Eyes, occasionally Red-eyes, Monarchs, these decks that really just couldn't handle some of my first turn boards and lost quickly as a result. It doesn't help that I'm pretty much the only person at my school who cares about the Banlist and follows it precisely, but I digress. (Why would you put AFD in ZEFRA, just to deck thin by one, AFTER it was banned, and then refuse to understand that you HAVE to destroy a field spell to get the search effect?!?) Anyway, I think it's really important when playing more rogue or casual decks to remember that even if you commit most of your hand to your board, there's more than just one turn. I think the deck that fixed my mentality on that front was Crystrons, which both of their two best plays either black rose on the opponent's turn or banish 3 monsters on the opponent's turn, but they can't really otk. Like, at all, actually. It makes you think about the best time to activate certain effects in response to your opponent, and it's just generally a much more interactive deck than most other decks right now.
After playing casually off and on for as long as I can remember, looking at the next 3 draws is something I and my lil sis do all the time. She like to do the "if I had X many turns I could have done X" but I also try to keep that in check by saying what I could do to counter what she could. I personally don't see either of us being competitive with yugioh but I really like this video, helps the want to be competitive players get better and gives a sword of revealing light to the casuals to see the mindset of competitive at least a little bit
I don't know if you'll read this, but I appreciate you talking about side decks at the end there. I personally believe that the most telling skill of how good you are at ygo is side-decking, not only because you understand your deck inside and out, but you understand the metagame enough to dedicate 15 cards for the main or extra to help your deck get an edge. I think the side deck also takes the longest time to compile. So I appreciate the s/o to all those who think side-decking is an important skill to be a great ygo player.
I know this is an old vid, but I like how well the “one more draw” section aged. Specifically, in an environment like Master Duel where players are physically unable to check their next card after losing. I feel like I’ve questioned my deck building more in that format because I couldn’t cop out by checking and being forced to analyze what didn’t work.
Thanks for this video. I always look at the next card when I lose to justify running it even if it was a really bricky card that could have won me one game out of hundreds when if I see that I consistently lose with my current build I should change it and better myself
I've never really thought about the fact that some people look a few cards into their deck after a duel and think that they had a chance at the win. I'm a really low tier player, I don't have any illusion that my deck or strategy would ever top any tournament, and even still. The only times I ever look a few cards into my deck after a game, my thought is "How many more draws was I from getting *stupidly lucky*?" because I know that it wouldn't have been skill for me to win at that point, it would have been me drawing something and winning entirely by chance.
*Looks back at GStCC combo I mentioned ages back* In my defense, it's fairly simple and doesn't rely on them just letting me do my thing. Still not worth using in the long term, but enough for the box. As for the after defeat issues, I had something similar happen recently in Magic the Gathering: I had lethal on my next turn, and could survive the current board and only a handful of options they had that could stop that. He did manage to use one of those few options and secured the win, but to show how close that game really was I demonstrated my next turn. Suffice it to say he's glad it ended when it did. I know a few plays that could have been done differently, but not enough to change things that game.
Whenever someone looks at the next few cards and says they could have won I usually look down the same amount of cards and tell them how i could have countered it, they always dont know what to say
I think the reason a lot of people have this mentality of "X Deck is good going first with no sides!" is because of the grand majority of duels on any duel simulator being singles. So when someone pulls a big wombo combo going first that locks you out it seems really overpowered until you realized you can probably win games 2 and 3. (It's also a big reason why the consistency of a strategy is often not looked at). I also used to do the card checking as a sort of funny joke, but honestly, the real way you improve is by looking at the duel again and thinking "what could I have done better in that match-up, that duel, that game? How would I have played as my opponent against my deck?"
Wow... i loved this topic and it was very inciteful. Duel links player but i used to look at my top cards like you said when i played the TCG. You are totally right, these are some of the little things that separate good players from stagnate bad players.
Only time you should "dig" off the top is test hands, if you brick. So you can see how many "turns" youd need to make the hand playable. And even then thats still why you do test hands in practice, and go through lines of play for going first or second.
Usually, when I make a new deck, I have a duel where use it against one of my others. Sure it's not the most optimal way of testing out your new creation for a variety of reasons, but at least it let's me kow wether it's actually decent against a more structured deck or not.
So I will go and admit i do check the next card of my deck at the end, however i mainly do it for fun. I draw whether i win or lose to see if there was a chance i could pull something off, or to see if the next could end the duel if my opponent unexpectedly held on for another turn. Never have I thought "if only i had [blank] i would have won though" its more like "I MIGHT have been able to do something, maybe survive an extra turn" idk maybe thats still bad thinking but i think its better than WOULD win. But the draw thing is for fun, and usually my friend would do it as well along talk about counter plays or bad plays.
What I do when I test hands is stop and think what handtraps would stop that move and if I could play through it, if I can, I assume it happened and if I can't, I write it down and keep going with the combo. That helps me to better understand my deck's weaknesses. Besides sometimes you just have to hope your opponent doesn't have the ash .
TL;DR: A, remember that it isn’t just you setting up whatever crazy combo; your opponent will be setting up their own board, and will take any out they can find to your combo. You need to have flexibility, an out of your own or a plan B when your best-laid plans get screwed over by an Ash Blossom or a monster being destroyed or whatever. Crazy combos with a crapload of cards that can’t be searched for in very specific orders only work for anime characters! B, If you’re looking at the top of your deck after losing and saying “If only I had x more turns/draws, I’d have gotten [out to opponent’s combo or key piece of your own]”, you should then ask “What did I do wrong that prevented me from getting those turns/digging out my important cards earlier?”. Again, your opponent isn’t just going to stand around and give you those extra turns! Or if you’re mad about a bricked hand or dead draw, think about how you can change your deck or strategy to make it more consistent and avoid that.
With the latest time rule, when I go into time, my opponents always say they could have won the game anyway ignoring that I’m sitting on negates and have handtraps.
Idk when I was younger I didn’t have the ability to play against myself because I knew what both hands and sides of the board had and would honestly be partial to the side with the best setup. Now though I’m able to ignore the knowledge of both hands/sides and just try to play the best I can impartially. I know that it isn’t optimal for finding new strategies and everything but you can still practice against yourself
I'm not a competitive player so the idea of these super-synergistic decks that win in a handful of turns fascinates me. I remember those Exodia ftk's, but seeing someone extra link on the first turn blows me away. Hopefully I'll get on that level someday.
Video idea: How to select side deck cards, what not to side deck, when to side deck, what to side deck out to maintain consistency, and when to side the main deck cards back in
I usually look at the top card of my deck to think mor eescenarios, also, to check how my deck is doing, since i don't really like to test hand alone (Cause the issue is the same, you don't have someone that responds to you), it helps me a bit to see scenarios... This kind of games, specially yugioh that is so fast, you really need to sit and think the various types of scenarios that you are going to be, with your main deck, with your side, while you play, while you test. Saying every time "if i just had this turn more" or shit like that doesn't really help in the long run unless you know what you did wrong to begin with.
You know, this reminds me of something, it's simple but it's note worthy to me. I play decks on YGOPRO to see which ones work out, at least what works for my casual/local setting, so I can buy em irl, and a lot of my decks have trouble against Altergeist (especially my bad, but fun Lair of Darkness 'control deck'), so I decided to straight up base my side deck around altergeist count, JUST altergeist counters, which I can see how that's flawed now 😂 Edit: around altergeist counters*
As a new player, I will say, I absolutely never have looked at my next cards, never actually thought about it. Definitely in the stage where I'm still forgetting effects at specific orders, or sending the wrong cards to the wrong place at the wrong time. Looking back at some of my locals, I have noticed that the people who manage to lose to me ARE checking their next draws and comment on them. That said, don't have that may games under my belt, so yeah, good points!
I check the top of the deck to see if a bunch of the same card type are stuck together so that game 2 or 3 I don’t draw a hand of 3 hang on mach and 2 whip crosser, but that’s not really the same.
To be fair losing that 1 turn matters now because of time. A lot of players will make their play and have a follow up play but time runs out before they get to utilize that follow up.
Problem with looking at your deck after losing and changing it around and evolving it for that situation to not happen again. It eventually devolves into a meta control deck. At which point its no longer the deck you started with. Feels like a lot of the time if your deck cant go first and set up your board in one turn your opponent will set up theirs and you might as well not play your turn after theirs
This seems to restate some issues of Surface Analysis,since the most optimal thing is when you always go first,your opponent doesn't have handtraps,Kaiju or something like that.
i used to never play around mst(now twin twisters) and i did continuos spells/traps decks that sucked ass. After sometime i became way too protective over destruction of my spells and used starlight road and (don´t judge me plz) dark bribe to stop destruction. In the end my decks are still kinda spell heavy, but with enought components to be kinda ok if the enemy blows something up (evenly matched still sucks).
I'd imagine it's to r/woooosh anyone who takes the bait. That being said, with the other FTK shitposts I've seen, something along the lines of "Not if " would've still counted.
i usually do this when im trying for a specific combo and get annoyed that nothing is coming up then i stop playing the deck until i find cards that can make the deck better
My rule for testing a deck is to always take a hand and see if I can play through a minimum of two hand traps. If I can do that with at least 7-8 out of 10 hands, then I've got a pretty decent deck.
I check my top if im new to a deck or havent played in a while to see if there was anything in my deck that i could use in that pinch situation i was in. If i dont get something playable in 4 or 5 draws then i know the deck is bad at comeback. Now im not saying i woulda won if i had 5 more turns but if i coulda drawn an out in 4 draws while i have 22 cards in deck i'll know that the deck has chance of giving me a miraculous topdeck
I (and probably the rest of the community) make a similar mistake: "Oh, I should have played this card I have in my hand instead! Oh, I should have held off on the Solemn!" Worst case scenario, you have to review your decision-making skills altogether.
Huh. Wish Konami would agree with you. Their philosophy seems to be more along the lines of "Yugioh takes 2 players that have given us the requisite amount of money and forgiven us for basically destroying 90% of all decks that used to be somewhat viable." But, hey, I'm a rogue tier scrub so the rest of this somehow doesn't apply to me, but I also knew it already. I see so many people playing these optimal meta builds wash back up at the lower tables in swiss because they don't understand that there's such a thing as disruption. It's pretty easy to beat the guy playing some Ojama Tricky Synchro deck that they just mashed together one day. But when your opponent could just have an entire solemn brigade waiting for you just to ruin your day it's a completely different story. Or, maybe they run effect veiler. Maybe the run a floodgate that you can't deal with. When the match isn't one-sided, it's really going to weed out the best players among those running the most powerful deck of the time.
Random person “But my deck is the best I spam The Winged dragon of Ra” lol but in all truth I 100% agree I didn’t think Yu-Gi-Oh! Was truly a two player game until I played kaiju’s
I think the reason why people forget or do not really realise when testing by themselves, is because nowadays the game does not seem to be super interactive with your opponent, if you go first you just extra link or make an "unbreakable" board and kind of just win by default. While this is obviously a bad mentality to have with testing of just "Oh if I do this I basically win if my opponent has nothing out me or stop me" it is sadly not too far from how the game actually is, games tend to not go past turn 2 nowadays unless you lost the die roll and go up against a deck playing loads of floodgates or stall/anti-meta decks.
dzeef my dude when can we ditch the blue screensaver geometric shape background and go with something that reminds us all this is a pack opening channel?
when i playtest, i always try to playtest like my opponent can handtrapme at any moment, and try to have alternative ways, or 1 called to try to counter counter myself out
"Yugioh takes 2 players".
Exodia: Hold my beer.
lmfaooo
This video definitely needed to happen, I used to have this mentality that "oh I play my game and my opponent plays his game and we interact with like TT and Battle and that's it". After playing for a while, I learned that this game is DEFINITELY a 2 player game. Dzeeff, if you're reading this, you might remember me as the guy on your "nobody plays chaos max" video that said "oh, well chaos max is one of the best rituals". Love these discussion videos and have a genuine interest in what you say. Keep contenting my dude.
From what I've heard, Yugioh is one of the most "interactive card games" and that MtG and Hearthstone don't have anything resembling traps, hand traps, quick effects or stun cards. Then again, they have a "manner" system which stops the crazy combos whereas here cards that are OP have either costs or requirements.
@@pickyphysicsstudent201 MTG has cards resembling quick play spell cards which you can play from your hand during the opponent's turn (you still need to pay Mana tho.) Ygo is, by far, the most interactive tcg I know, though.
Xlord Day
MtG and hearthstone both have set-up turns.
MtG has instants, which function like handtraps and countertraps, as battle traps and removal.
YGO is faster, but that only makes in more interactive if you claim a turn is a turn.
@@suddenllybah I meant that ygo does the most on the opponent's turn compared to any other tcg. There are even some decks that do more on the opponent's turn than their own (Psy, aka hand trap:the deck).
Other card games may be more back and forth, but no such card game can ever compare to the satisfaction of flipping bottomless on the opponent's BLS, torrentialing their whole board, or putting a fissure face down, while pretending it's mirror force.
Xlord
Eh, Draw-Go exists in MtG, in which the only play that happens on your turn is dropping a land, and the win condition is literally building up enough mana to animate a land for the rest of the game and attack your opponent.
The fact that Yu-Gi-Oh requires that you represent most other players turn actions by putting a card facedown, (and giving your opponent the option to S/T removethem instead) is fairly unique. (M:tG works basically in inverse, most other players turn actions come from your hand, and self sacing for removal cards are somewhat rare, and very obvious about it.
… Anyway, the fact is that it is unique in that manner.
(The mechinic also kinda … doesn't work IRL if the game at all cares about hand size, see the the set you whole hand as Infernity play, even when you have multiple monster cards ruling for the game kinda not working.)
But hey, searching the deck as a cost already exists...
"Yu Gi Oh takes 2 playes"
Yami Yugi: Hold my triangle.
Alejandro Cortes it’s the millennium puzzle 😤
well of to fight myself in younger
Yugioh is a 4 man game if you include the mandatory back seat duelist.
what
I can definitely get this. When I sit down and make a deck, I do make theoretical combos and strats but mostly just consistency checking. But it doesn't matter how consistent it can be as long as it is flexible and can deal with the opponent.
Exactly, i play Dark Magicians which is not the best deck... we know this but it's all about your list. Play testing with the deck I'd win 7/10 duels. Like it's all about consistency.
@b Simply because it's a deck I'm passionate about. Granted i know there are better decks out there but I just love playing the deck. I don't hate on other players for playing better decks, I just love dark magicians.
you get it
I mean it's about bringing your own style to the game as well, also if I spend the money on these cards why not use them, look at all the others guys who religiously play Six Sams and Blue-Eyes. It's playing what you love. but of course learning the meta and adapting to it with what you are playing.
obligatory comment that it doesn't take two players if you extra link your opponent.
I actually like extra-linking, it gives people something to build towards which isn't just summoning a whole bunch of big monsters, each with some form of stun or negation. What I don't like is the frequency in which extra linking can be accomplished, right now it should be a "win more" strategy and not something which can be built on the first turn.
Then again, that's like saying "I don't hate Shooting Quasar Dragon, I hate Level Eater." people just turn their brains off an can't identify the one problem card which allows for easy spamming on boards.
that's a pretty good comparison. i'm a sucker for things like shooting quasar, king calamity, assault mode, odd eyes raging dragon, or even timaeus knight of destiny, but on the other hand it's most often not worth the effort unless you build a deck that is decidcated to turboing that thing, which in turns takes the awesome out of it. I could at least see extra linking be something doable but hard to attain, and you would still have a decent win condition that is the armada of links you're playing to do that. Can't say as much for turbo quasar, alas.
@@chazzprinceton3892
This.
The only thing I don't like about links is the fact that turn one my opponent can lock me out of extra deck plays almost entirely.
This idea that, "I can win so long as my opponent doesn't do anything for X turns", is a mentality I see in other games.
I've noticed the more popular the game, the more likely people will try Magical Christmas land decks. Magic, Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh have a lot of them, often because the casual formats are full of players doing that kind of stuff. Commander is an entire format of those players for MTG (am aware that there is different levels of play for commander, but people expect this kind of play from commander more than other formats). However smaller games, like any of Bushiroad's games that aren't Weiss, have these sort of strats be non-existent or have players that quickly realise that these sort of Christmas land strats just don't work, and I'm almost certain it's due to the smaller playerbase forcing people to optimise to the best players around, even with casual or budget play.
Probably one of the most idiotic popular mentalities I see. I'm an aggressive player, or used to be, but I always try to keep a backup strat in case my opponent turns things sour for me. -Unless I brick with the only 3 high level monsters in my deck and spells/traps in hand-
The issue is that a lot of people seem to really struggle in clearly seeing possible futures, or putting themselves in someone other's shoes.
Every action you take in a competitive game will have a response. No sane person sits there and just lets it happen. Yet we so easily fall into the idea that we're the only conscious being with thoughts, because that's all we can experience is ourselves.
*Opponent looks at the top two cards of his deck* "If I would've had two more turns I would've drawn my Raigeki" *Looks at the top card of my deck* "My next draw was Anti-Raigeki..."
You're right, a lot of people forget that if you get another two turns your opponent also gets another two turns. If you get your answer in a turn or two, odds are your opponent who's already ahead would've drawn answers for your answer.
YuGiOh! duels take two players
We live in a society
gamers rise up
We as a species exist.
Not in the videogames lol thats when it takes 4 players,it would be interesting if people did real Tag tournaments though.
Izunami Technically even in the Tag Force games, there’s only one player. When you break it down, you’re dueling a game disc.
I got number one in my regional with ice barriers and Obelisk. Totally true
I won world championship 2011 with ojama dark world's. Totally truthfully. I mean, the only difficult opponent I faced was 1 x-saber player, and his technical play was worse than ygopro AI, so...
@@xlordday7241 Believable
Its totally possible
If its a 1 man regional
/r/thathappened
I used magic cylinder and topped a regional
When I first started playing my favorite effects were, "cannot be destroyed by..." or, "cannot be targeted by...". Now my favorite effects are, "during either players turn...". Thats why master peace and true draco as a whole was/is my favorite deck. Summoning master peace in the middle of an opponents play vs having him on the board in the first place made all the difference.
they got rid of "during either players turn"
How to recognize the single players: "If only my opponent didn't have [insert staple interruption card]."
Arjan Zweers solems
Dzeeff: "Outside of Gouki there are several stratrgies that go beyond turn 1"
Farfa: "Whoa! Boarder, D Fissure, set 3! Thunder King?! Now put Fossil dyna on board! It's the last piece of the puzzle! IT'S THE LAST PIECE OF THE MILLENNIUM FKING PUZZLE!"
Trickstar: set reincarnation. Have droll in hand
@@rebirthofshien364 Proceeds to play tt during the draw phase
Firewall pass
Just rewatched this video again after years. It holds true just as much, if not MORE now than ever before.
It's like if you're playing chess, but only think about your own strategy as opposed to what your opponent is planning and can do in response to your moves. It's like not putting in the work of thinking through the game.
It's exactly what happens. I'm a chess player myself and I always lose because I don't think what my opponent can do to "counter" what I did.
Next video: You need a deck to play YuGiOh
this is actually a really helpful way to analyze why you lost. i really do think i'll take that to heart thank you
I've been play testing with a friend once and I got rid of his biggest monster and he scooped once my play was done. He then checked the top of his deck and it was the out... he *still* had more than 3k Life Points but scooped because of a play I made that didn't really stop him from doing anything at all. I was more frustrated than he was.
I.e. *Reasons you should never scoop in play testing*
True
Hey Doug, can you make a how to side deck video?
This is pretty helpful (it's a long read though)
www.reddit.com/r/yugioh/comments/5pzxlx/competitive_comprehensive_siding_guide/
Kaiju , trap/spell removel , handtraps , mega ultra chicken spehre mode , and all that
I'm reminded of a time when I was playing Madolche (they were new and I like cute things) vs. Fire Fist and we both had loaded backrows and hands and were playing carefully not to give the other an advantage. A Magic player walks by and comments that our decks probably aren't very good, because nothing seems to be happening. He had borrowed an Inzektor deck some time earlier and tried the game, and had came to the conclusion that it was a very fast and random game. I asked him to stay and watch, because in time, something would happen. A few turns later, my opponent went for broke, I stopped his push and countered with my own (Ultimate Offering-fueled), completely obliterating him in one turn.
The Magic player acknowledged that he had misread the situation - we had chosen not to attempt big plays, we hadn't been unable to. When he'd tried the game, he had just went for broke as soon as he could, not thinking of how he could be stopped. Sometimes that works, more often it doesn't.
I've played both Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh, and this kind of dynamic exists in both games, so it's not like he couldn't have known, he just assumed YGO was a stupid simple kids' game.
Not if Gouki wins the die roll, they don't
Remember when Gouki was an underdog deck which people wanted to get that push into Tier 1?
"I have combo, do you want to go to game 2?" Quickest games of yugioh I've played
That is what happens when konami forgets to put a "You cannot SS except goukis"-like clause
Somebody forgot about cyber dragon. You know, the “break-your-board” deck?
Haven't paid attention to competitive in a while, what's the Gouki combo?
but on Dueling Nexus you can duel yourself
Lol I hate when u just try to have a simple duel with someone and they duel themselves but it makes me laugh too
“If only my opponent wasn’t playing against me I would have won “
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
So about the "If only I had one more turn" thing, I used to do that all the time, but I ended up physically stopping myself by never checking the top card of my deck after I lose. I might occasionally be like, "Where the hell were all my allures" and check that, but that's a different thing. Ever since I started doing that, I feel a lot better whenever I lose, which honestly happens a lot less now and it's probably only partially the decks I play. By thinking more in the moment, you can make your plays based on "what can I do right now? What is my best option right now?" Rather than "What will I be able to do with my next draw?" It really helps me with deck building, and it really helps me with being more confident in my playmaking, even if there was that one time at Yugioh Day that I lost a match because I tried to win on my terms rather than stalling my opponent out on Marshmallon and ran right into a mirror force, but those things happen. The point is, if anybody is struggling with the "one more turn" mentality, just don't check your next draws. It worked for me, so maybe it will work for somebody else.
Okay, I made this post a couple minutes before he said any of that, but it still kind of invalidates the post, but oh well. Guess I'll leave it at that.
And also, I find it very interesting that after playing a bunch of combo decks for extended periods of time, I got into this bizarre mentality of understanding that there are more turns than just the first and second, but I felt like they didn't really matter. Maybe it was the environment I was in, playing combo decks against things like Pendulum Magicians and True Draco Metalfoes, where if my first turn wasn't good enough I lost immediately, or at school playing against Satellerknights, Blue-Eyes, occasionally Red-eyes, Monarchs, these decks that really just couldn't handle some of my first turn boards and lost quickly as a result. It doesn't help that I'm pretty much the only person at my school who cares about the Banlist and follows it precisely, but I digress. (Why would you put AFD in ZEFRA, just to deck thin by one, AFTER it was banned, and then refuse to understand that you HAVE to destroy a field spell to get the search effect?!?) Anyway, I think it's really important when playing more rogue or casual decks to remember that even if you commit most of your hand to your board, there's more than just one turn. I think the deck that fixed my mentality on that front was Crystrons, which both of their two best plays either black rose on the opponent's turn or banish 3 monsters on the opponent's turn, but they can't really otk. Like, at all, actually. It makes you think about the best time to activate certain effects in response to your opponent, and it's just generally a much more interactive deck than most other decks right now.
After playing casually off and on for as long as I can remember, looking at the next 3 draws is something I and my lil sis do all the time. She like to do the "if I had X many turns I could have done X" but I also try to keep that in check by saying what I could do to counter what she could. I personally don't see either of us being competitive with yugioh but I really like this video, helps the want to be competitive players get better and gives a sword of revealing light to the casuals to see the mindset of competitive at least a little bit
I don't know if you'll read this, but I appreciate you talking about side decks at the end there. I personally believe that the most telling skill of how good you are at ygo is side-decking, not only because you understand your deck inside and out, but you understand the metagame enough to dedicate 15 cards for the main or extra to help your deck get an edge. I think the side deck also takes the longest time to compile. So I appreciate the s/o to all those who think side-decking is an important skill to be a great ygo player.
I know this is an old vid, but I like how well the “one more draw” section aged. Specifically, in an environment like Master Duel where players are physically unable to check their next card after losing. I feel like I’ve questioned my deck building more in that format because I couldn’t cop out by checking and being forced to analyze what didn’t work.
I feel like people look at cards, archetypes, and plays in a huge vacuum, not thinking about the myriad of factors involved in playing this game
"pot of desires is a terrible card since you need to banish 10 cards from the top of your deck"
-random stupid person
*sees title*
whoaaa who would've thunk
Thanks for this video. I always look at the next card when I lose to justify running it even if it was a really bricky card that could have won me one game out of hundreds when if I see that I consistently lose with my current build I should change it and better myself
A side deck video would be really good, looking at modern or less modern side decking options or even just an in depth look at the current meta.
I've never really thought about the fact that some people look a few cards into their deck after a duel and think that they had a chance at the win. I'm a really low tier player, I don't have any illusion that my deck or strategy would ever top any tournament, and even still. The only times I ever look a few cards into my deck after a game, my thought is "How many more draws was I from getting *stupidly lucky*?" because I know that it wouldn't have been skill for me to win at that point, it would have been me drawing something and winning entirely by chance.
*Looks back at GStCC combo I mentioned ages back* In my defense, it's fairly simple and doesn't rely on them just letting me do my thing. Still not worth using in the long term, but enough for the box.
As for the after defeat issues, I had something similar happen recently in Magic the Gathering: I had lethal on my next turn, and could survive the current board and only a handful of options they had that could stop that. He did manage to use one of those few options and secured the win, but to show how close that game really was I demonstrated my next turn. Suffice it to say he's glad it ended when it did. I know a few plays that could have been done differently, but not enough to change things that game.
Whenever someone looks at the next few cards and says they could have won I usually look down the same amount of cards and tell them how i could have countered it, they always dont know what to say
Chad moment.
I think the reason a lot of people have this mentality of "X Deck is good going first with no sides!" is because of the grand majority of duels on any duel simulator being singles. So when someone pulls a big wombo combo going first that locks you out it seems really overpowered until you realized you can probably win games 2 and 3. (It's also a big reason why the consistency of a strategy is often not looked at).
I also used to do the card checking as a sort of funny joke, but honestly, the real way you improve is by looking at the duel again and thinking "what could I have done better in that match-up, that duel, that game? How would I have played as my opponent against my deck?"
“Yu-Gi-Oh! Duels Take Two Players”
Handheld platforms: Hold my charger.
Wow... i loved this topic and it was very inciteful. Duel links player but i used to look at my top cards like you said when i played the TCG. You are totally right, these are some of the little things that separate good players from stagnate bad players.
You know, that was a legit good video.
Congratulation, I wish you made more videos like this
an excellent video on mentality and getting better at this game
it's all about having the right attitude and accepting losses
"Sometimes even turn 10 or 11 if you're playing a control mirror match"
--Resolved Final Countdown 4 times last Locals
:)
Haven't you played chain burn?
It still takes 2 players...
One that plays and one that burns kappa
You still wait for your opponent to move so you can springboard your combo.
Only time you should "dig" off the top is test hands, if you brick. So you can see how many "turns" youd need to make the hand playable. And even then thats still why you do test hands in practice, and go through lines of play for going first or second.
Usually, when I make a new deck, I have a duel where use it against one of my others. Sure it's not the most optimal way of testing out your new creation for a variety of reasons, but at least it let's me kow wether it's actually decent against a more structured deck or not.
So I will go and admit i do check the next card of my deck at the end, however i mainly do it for fun. I draw whether i win or lose to see if there was a chance i could pull something off, or to see if the next could end the duel if my opponent unexpectedly held on for another turn. Never have I thought "if only i had [blank] i would have won though" its more like "I MIGHT have been able to do something, maybe survive an extra turn" idk maybe thats still bad thinking but i think its better than WOULD win. But the draw thing is for fun, and usually my friend would do it as well along talk about counter plays or bad plays.
This is a really good topic. I think this applies towards all card games in general. Thanks for sharing!
What I do when I test hands is stop and think what handtraps would stop that move and if I could play through it, if I can, I assume it happened and if I can't, I write it down and keep going with the combo. That helps me to better understand my deck's weaknesses. Besides sometimes you just have to hope your opponent doesn't have the ash .
TL;DR: A, remember that it isn’t just you setting up whatever crazy combo; your opponent will be setting up their own board, and will take any out they can find to your combo. You need to have flexibility, an out of your own or a plan B when your best-laid plans get screwed over by an Ash Blossom or a monster being destroyed or whatever. Crazy combos with a crapload of cards that can’t be searched for in very specific orders only work for anime characters!
B, If you’re looking at the top of your deck after losing and saying “If only I had x more turns/draws, I’d have gotten [out to opponent’s combo or key piece of your own]”, you should then ask “What did I do wrong that prevented me from getting those turns/digging out my important cards earlier?”. Again, your opponent isn’t just going to stand around and give you those extra turns! Or if you’re mad about a bricked hand or dead draw, think about how you can change your deck or strategy to make it more consistent and avoid that.
With the latest time rule, when I go into time, my opponents always say they could have won the game anyway ignoring that I’m sitting on negates and have handtraps.
Idk when I was younger I didn’t have the ability to play against myself because I knew what both hands and sides of the board had and would honestly be partial to the side with the best setup. Now though I’m able to ignore the knowledge of both hands/sides and just try to play the best I can impartially. I know that it isn’t optimal for finding new strategies and everything but you can still practice against yourself
Side decking has always been my weak spot lol both what to put in it when I make one and what to rotate when I actually use it.
I'm not a competitive player so the idea of these super-synergistic decks that win in a handful of turns fascinates me. I remember those Exodia ftk's, but seeing someone extra link on the first turn blows me away. Hopefully I'll get on that level someday.
did you get on that level now?
I agree with you, but what if I check the next card just out of curiosity?
Dzeeff is a man with a big brain
Video idea: How to select side deck cards, what not to side deck, when to side deck, what to side deck out to maintain consistency, and when to side the main deck cards back in
what card is the art from in the thumbnail?
I usually look at the top card of my deck to think mor eescenarios, also, to check how my deck is doing, since i don't really like to test hand alone (Cause the issue is the same, you don't have someone that responds to you), it helps me a bit to see scenarios... This kind of games, specially yugioh that is so fast, you really need to sit and think the various types of scenarios that you are going to be, with your main deck, with your side, while you play, while you test. Saying every time "if i just had this turn more" or shit like that doesn't really help in the long run unless you know what you did wrong to begin with.
Title is wrong. I have been dueling myself for years and ive won every game, as such from a skilled player like who, once again, have never lost.
WHen i read the title i thought this was another "no shit" discussion, but actually was an intelligent discussion. NIce job kid
These kids are really helping me become a better player. Thanks for the critical thinking strategys and competitive over sight.
You know, this reminds me of something, it's simple but it's note worthy to me. I play decks on YGOPRO to see which ones work out, at least what works for my casual/local setting, so I can buy em irl, and a lot of my decks have trouble against Altergeist (especially my bad, but fun Lair of Darkness 'control deck'), so I decided to straight up base my side deck around altergeist count, JUST altergeist counters, which I can see how that's flawed now 😂
Edit: around altergeist counters*
As a new player, I will say, I absolutely never have looked at my next cards, never actually thought about it. Definitely in the stage where I'm still forgetting effects at specific orders, or sending the wrong cards to the wrong place at the wrong time. Looking back at some of my locals, I have noticed that the people who manage to lose to me ARE checking their next draws and comment on them. That said, don't have that may games under my belt, so yeah, good points!
What was worse? or which is better? gouki or spyral?
I check the top of the deck to see if a bunch of the same card type are stuck together so that game 2 or 3 I don’t draw a hand of 3 hang on mach and 2 whip crosser, but that’s not really the same.
To be fair losing that 1 turn matters now because of time. A lot of players will make their play and have a follow up play but time runs out before they get to utilize that follow up.
This title gave me flashbacks to the 4-way duels we used to have.
Problem with looking at your deck after losing and changing it around and evolving it for that situation to not happen again. It eventually devolves into a meta control deck. At which point its no longer the deck you started with. Feels like a lot of the time if your deck cant go first and set up your board in one turn your opponent will set up theirs and you might as well not play your turn after theirs
This seems to restate some issues of Surface Analysis,since the most optimal thing is when you always go first,your opponent doesn't have handtraps,Kaiju or something like that.
Legitimately very important video
I am terrible at side decking more with the concept then building the side deck a video on something like that would be awesome
In other news the sky is blue
I remember team APS checked a card ahead in their 2v2 tag duel at least a few of the members did
i used to never play around mst(now twin twisters) and i did continuos spells/traps decks that sucked ass.
After sometime i became way too protective over destruction of my spells and used starlight road and (don´t judge me plz) dark bribe to stop destruction.
In the end my decks are still kinda spell heavy, but with enought components to be kinda ok if the enemy blows something up (evenly matched still sucks).
I normally only play common games or online, i have 3 decks, a red eyes deck, a blue eyes/kuriboh deck and a burn/mill deck
Really don't get why people still post the "extra link lol" comments when zeeff addresses them within the first 3 minutes of the video.
I'd imagine it's to r/woooosh anyone who takes the bait.
That being said, with the other FTK shitposts I've seen, something along the lines of "Not if " would've still counted.
i usually do this when im trying for a specific combo and get annoyed that nothing is coming up then i stop playing the deck until i find cards that can make the deck better
Always when I loose I figure out how to either add the card/s that defeated me to my deck or make a new deck around it
My rule for testing a deck is to always take a hand and see if I can play through a minimum of two hand traps. If I can do that with at least 7-8 out of 10 hands, then I've got a pretty decent deck.
I check my top if im new to a deck or havent played in a while to see if there was anything in my deck that i could use in that pinch situation i was in. If i dont get something playable in 4 or 5 draws then i know the deck is bad at comeback. Now im not saying i woulda won if i had 5 more turns but if i coulda drawn an out in 4 draws while i have 22 cards in deck i'll know that the deck has chance of giving me a miraculous topdeck
But if you stack your deck there is no need to see the card you were going to draw because you already knew it
great video! i always tell my friends to stop looking at the cards "they would've drawn" for the same reason but i always get shit for that
What card is the thumbnail,it looks cool
Pls do a video on sidedecking🙏
Only if your opponent has hand traps
I (and probably the rest of the community) make a similar mistake: "Oh, I should have played this card I have in my hand instead! Oh, I should have held off on the Solemn!"
Worst case scenario, you have to review your decision-making skills altogether.
Sup Doug
Good video dzeeff
What if I check my next cards and ask my oponent to check his card too?
Is it okay to look at the next card on your deck just because you're curious about what you was going to draw next
like
"oh. neat. :D"
tell that to young me playing yugioh wiith myself
Got it, don't think "how could I have (before) won this turn" (other than "draw better lol)" not "how many turns till I could have won"
Huh. Wish Konami would agree with you. Their philosophy seems to be more along the lines of "Yugioh takes 2 players that have given us the requisite amount of money and forgiven us for basically destroying 90% of all decks that used to be somewhat viable."
But, hey, I'm a rogue tier scrub so the rest of this somehow doesn't apply to me, but I also knew it already. I see so many people playing these optimal meta builds wash back up at the lower tables in swiss because they don't understand that there's such a thing as disruption. It's pretty easy to beat the guy playing some Ojama Tricky Synchro deck that they just mashed together one day. But when your opponent could just have an entire solemn brigade waiting for you just to ruin your day it's a completely different story. Or, maybe they run effect veiler. Maybe the run a floodgate that you can't deal with. When the match isn't one-sided, it's really going to weed out the best players among those running the most powerful deck of the time.
I like to look at the next card but I don't expect anything from it I just do it for fun
Random person “But my deck is the best I spam The Winged dragon of Ra” lol but in all truth I 100% agree I didn’t think Yu-Gi-Oh! Was truly a two player game until I played kaiju’s
too my knowledge it ant i use to work on the yugioh part for a very long time
I think the reason why people forget or do not really realise when testing by themselves, is because nowadays the game does not seem to be super interactive with your opponent, if you go first you just extra link or make an "unbreakable" board and kind of just win by default. While this is obviously a bad mentality to have with testing of just "Oh if I do this I basically win if my opponent has nothing out me or stop me" it is sadly not too far from how the game actually is, games tend to not go past turn 2 nowadays unless you lost the die roll and go up against a deck playing loads of floodgates or stall/anti-meta decks.
YGOTolley depends on the deck. Yeah gouki is like this, but decks like skystrikers, tricksters, and altergeist don’t really do that.
These casual players are probably just unaware of this while deck building
Yugioh requires forward thinking
dzeef my dude when can we ditch the blue screensaver geometric shape background and go with something that reminds us all this is a pack opening channel?
How does that not make you think of opening up card packs though?! /s
Next format will be single player matches
I check the next card when I lose but I’m just curious about it.
when i playtest, i always try to playtest like my opponent can handtrapme at any moment, and try to have alternative ways, or 1 called to try to counter counter myself out