Strategic Losing in Yu-Gi-Oh!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.พ. 2025
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#YuGiOh #dzeeff
Ha! I've been losing for years, do I even need to watch this?
Definitely
In all seriousness I really appreciate the opening to this video, I know this channel has a mix of casual/comp subs so I'm sometimes nervous to ask really basic questions so a 'YGO for noobs" list is awesome thanks
You scoop hoping the lack of information gives you the edge in the next game and then a guy behind you says out loud: oh you're playing that deck.
Bruh...
Djole Misic Yeah, I never say what deck somebody is playing unless one, it's my own deck, and even then I wouldn't say if I was trying to win, like with Knightmare ABC, but if I'm playing, like, Crystron, I wouldn't expect my opponent to care enough to try to counter me, or know what my cards did enough to be able to. The second reason I would ever say what deck somebody is playing is to even information. Like, if I'm at locals and somebody is like, "Oh, yeah, I'm playing Odd-eyes." And their opponent is playing, like, Trickstar, and they asked what their opponent was playing I'd probably just say Trickstar, it's only fair at that point. I mean, I did kinda steal a game that way by summoning D'Arc against nurse burn turn 1, but I had a Leonidas in my hand anyway, so I wouldn't have lost regardless. Game 2 I would have known anyway. So if both players are playing a mystery deck, no spoilers. If neither are playing a mystery deck, no need. If one player is really open about it and one is like, "no, I don't need to tell you what deck I'm playing," I would probably be a tiny bit annoyed if it was a meta deck, but if it was pure preformapals or some bs I would just stay quiet.
*Sets Infernity monster in backrow*
*Opponent plays MST*
*Strategically scoops*
rf rff I'm crying omg
rf rff i’d instantly call a judge
The truth in this
@Ronin Kaiser yup, been watching on flixzone} for months myself :)
*Plans to strategically lose and the opponent pulls a Victory Dragon*
Essentially loosing the battle to win the war.
I remember I was playing pendulum magicians a while back with HEROs and after winning the die roll, I went first set up a dark law board and they tried playing around it but couldn't. So game 2 I knew I couldn't win if they set up a board so I drew 5 and scooped and went first again, and then game 3 he drew 5 and scooped lol. Total time 6 minutes
cool
I used to do that a LOT when playing a go first deck like heros,espiclly in decks like qli when you wanted to set emptyness and skill drain or decks like palos and dracos
Wait, why the hell would you ever scoop game 3? Never scoop game 3 unless your opponent starts an ftk or something! Game 3 is the last chance to win!
The Four Star Gamer lol he didn't believe in the heart of the cards
"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War
*i wanted to lose*
And this, kids, is why victory dragon is banned.
Because you can just run away before it has time to get the job done
Not only that but winning a match by a card effect is just terrible card design. There is a reason why all the Victory Dragon clone prize cards have the "cannot be used in a duel" text on them.
I just recently played in a case tournament wherein I got extra-linked by Gouki game 1 after my Ash Blossom got hit by Called by the Grave. Once I confirmed that my opponent was capable of finishing the combo without messing up, I drew my card, saw I had no outs, and scooped it up without playing any other cards. Since he didn't know I was playing Altergeist, he didn't side his hate for me and I took game 2. Unfortunately he took game 3 because he opened up Ash Blossom, Called by the Grave, and Red Reboot, which meant that I got murderfaced despite him passing turn 1.
A question about that. I have tried strategic loosing and it has worked out to a degree. Though a few weeks ago at a Regional I asked my opponent permission to check the top card of my deck to see if I wanted to scoop so we could save time. Guess what, he declined, kept his ear buds in and proceeded to later slow play (in game 3) when he saw there was only 3 min left in time to which I would have taken all 8k of his life with double buster dragon + borreload.
So the question is do you have to ask permission or can you just check the top card of your deck? If you check it and it's good and you think you can come back, then what? Cause your opponent can be an ass.
Ben R checking the top card of your deck is not allowed in competitive play, thus you have to consider the cards in your deck that can out the board (or combo with other cards in your hand), if any, and what the likelihood of drawing them is. However, if someone is slow playing you, you need to call them out on it. It's more important than ever now.
akromakroma
That is what I thought. I have done it in competitive play before as many of my opponents are generally chill and are also interested in saving time and potentially have time to grab something to eat. I guess you can assume it is a gentlemans agreement. I should have called judge on him. I brought a chess timer to hopefully deal with slow play and only went into time that one time. That is what I hate about these new rules, is they kinda force us to be rude to each other. But Ya your right.
Just to respond to Ben R, checking the top card of your deck is not allowed. I get that sometimes you want to do it to see if you're going to scoop, but if my opponent did that to me I'd 100% force them to scoop if it was a competitive event
Slowplaying with earbuds in....
M A X I M U M
D I S R E S P E C T
So wait does this mean crappy cards are good again?! *eagerly digs out gravity bind deck*
Black Tim Howard
*digs up machine duplication for Cyber Dragon Deck*
+Black Tim Howard In a way, this is actually an option for budget players - specifically, using cheap, less effective ( though _still effective_ ) cards in the main deck that you side out almost always after game 1 to feed your opponent false expectations of you.
Obviously, this is more cheeky than it is optimal - and this especially drops off as you get further away from locals and closer to Worlds - but playing your opponent is just as important as playing the game, and might even be more important if you're playing anti-meta.
Play 3 cup of ace, 3 magic cylinder, and and 3 inspector boarder, you now have 9 pretty free side deck spaces. Also your opponent will think less of you. I heard about somebody going to locals, taking out a paper mat, and using an unsleeved deck, looking super scrubby, then obliterating everyone with Zoodiacs. Hilarious.
The Four Star Gamer
I tried a similar thing. after watching them play for 10 minutes, I had no idea what game they were playing. yugioh aged weird...
Retrieves "Broken Bamboo Sword" deck...
Joe Giorlando
Is he a jojo?
Artist Kalethegod yes he is
Opponent activates raigeki
Summons Victory Dragon
Strategically scoops
LMFAO
That used to happen a lot, which is why they banned Victory Dragon and match winners in general.
Strategic loosing in yugioh. Play trickstars. Be in game 2 at 39 minutes on the clock. Scoop and start game 2 before time is called. Summon lycoris. Pass turn for game.
AceDMan16 Gaming inb4 they go into gagaga cowboy and burn you for 800
AceDMan16 Gaming people still complain about the end of match procedures? It's been almost a month I'd have thought we'd have something new that is ruining the game to complain about by now lol.
WyomingPTT Oh my god! Links are totally ruining - no, wait a second, that's been done before. Trickstars are - no, wait, still not new, just more relavent. Erm. Special summoning is ruining the game? Yeah, sure, why not. Special Summoning is ruining the game!
But Links are ruining the game.
Thank you for the playlist! I'd love to see more platlist for your other videos. Keep up the great content.
one of my favorite yugioh channels, very logical and sound reasoning and challenges common yugioh knowledge to go to the next level. I look forward to all ur vids bro
in your yugioh for beginners playlist you should record a video explaining why 40 card decks are better than 60 card decks *most of the time* and go over basic stuff like card advantage too, all in one neat, tidy video. unless you do that in the other 4 that're in there then i guess that would be counter productive. i'm tired of explaining the math to people, a sixty card deck has 1000000000000000000000000000000 (that's 30 zeros) times as many possible deck shuffles than a 40 card deck (based on a deck of 60 one ofs and 40 one ofs using factorial) actually learned that lesson from Vsauce. which statistically makes a 40 card deck more likely to draw one cohesive strategy throughout a duel, even if you have a bad deck, a 60 card bad deck has a higher liklihood of dead draws than a 40 card bad deck.
Chris bromley-west
Most of the time?
Really a lot of pros use 40+ card decks. Even if its just 41 or 42
You always create a mix of cards with you deck and sometimes its necessary to include some more needed cards. More cards can also help the deck to combo better. So its more of a question what you play.
Another benefit is of course that more cards means less chance to loose due to no cards left to draw.
Would an exception be a self-milling deck like lightsworn?
EvilerOMEGA yes of course
Miles Noctis
Not really.
It all depends on how often do you want to draw this and that card on average.
Sometimes it really doesnt matter at all if you got a bit more cards because nowadays there are a shitton of cards so that you cant always say: these are the 40 best cards.
For beginnets yes its better to stick to the 40 card rule. But for people with advanced deck building skills it doesnt matter.
Tipp: there are online calculators and deck building software that can really help. Helps more than playing hundreds of duels
Miles Noctis
Yes you are so right.
Sometimes you just want to add a single searchable card that may be good in a certain situation. But you dont want to draw the card in your regular play. So you make a 40+ card deck so that the chances are smaller to draw this specific card in regular play
This will be a great help for the rest of the channel members. Thanks Dzeef. - Danger!
6:36 I expected this to be a "let the inexpirienced players learn" thing...
That is cold xD
Loses game 1, flips their 3 mirror force or trap hole cards, sides for 3 Waking the Dragon
"all according to plan.."
* sees title *
Ah, yes. My secret technique.
This happened to me once at a regional. I played true draco zoo and made a big board turn 1, then my opponent attempts to break my board by special summoning terror top but then scoops right away when I activated maxx c. Then I side thinking I'm going against some zoo variant, and I opened up my side deck cards only to find out they're useless against burning abyss lol.
I go to locals at my OTS, but we actually have to record game wins or losses, such as 2-1, 2-0, etc.
TBF Magic also supports this form of strategic losing, but the effects which can reveal your opponents hand don't typically also have such damaging effects that they would incentivize such a strategy (in addition to tournaments also caring significantly more about the game-by-game specifics).
Sizably informative video, especially since I never have entered a yugioh tourney! Now, how about how to strategically open packs without being a pack opening channel?
At first when I clicked I was expecting to hear talk of decks like that Deep Draw deck that doesn't have Exodia in it and purposely loses, but instead I got insight
Foolish duelists, ALL MY LOSES WERE PART OF MY STRATEGY!
This is actually an incredibly prevalent strategy in magic for players going both first and second mostly just because in magic most cards are more generic than in yugioh so individual cards are less likely to give away a large portion of your deck which makes giving away deck information stay relevant for much longer in a set than it tends to in yugioh.
In Magic, you do concede for strategic purposes, because of side boarding. Say game 1, your opponent opens up with land, sakura tribe scout, then, you can look at your hand and ask yourself, "Can I beat amulet titan?" If you cannot, then you concede, hiding your own deck, so you can side board appropriately, while your opponent either doesn't side board, or side boards standard answers for the standard hate cards.
Another example would be, your opponent playing a thoughtseize or inquisition of kozilek, on the turn that he or she would win. No need to give the opponent extra information. (Both of those cards allows the opponent to look at your hand, and force you to discard a card; as long as the card meets certain requirements.)
This topic tends to devolved into a dumpster fire of what is the moral choice? Not concede and give your opponent the ability to understand your deck better, and thus side board appropriately, or strategic conceding plays into the allure of Magic, as the game is about strategy.
Because your opponent no longer has Chaos MAX on the field in game 2
Losing is winning
Change my mind.
The Shadow Realm will change it for you
Black Tim Howard Fair point my friend
Lucas Phoenix But if you win by losing, then you don't actually lose? So then, you don't win, which results in a loss, ending in your victory. Unless of course, you lose, in which case, you win.
The Suupreme That was perfect
If you kill you enemies they win
I'm not sure how valuable the tie breaker is in Magic but even with it, the value of not revealing more information than needed is there, to say why you shouldn't play out games you can't win.
I use to use an empty jar deck. I often surrendered if my opponent would get to go first. If they did ANYTHING I didn't like, I would likely surrender. Anything I could do to get that first "what the fuck is going on" win in quick, making it come down to that final duel. Given the duels with that deck can last a while in some situations, it's very helpful. Also just wastes less time.
Ever hear of Gwent? Knowing when to throw a round is very important in that game because when you lose card advantage, it STAYS gone. Knowing when a round is lost and basically making a strategic retreat is the difference between turning the match around and blowing all the cards in your hand and then going on to lose the next two rounds.
i often quit without making a play game 1 just to win the next 2 games straight, keeps them guessing and will prevent them siding for you correctly
I agree totally with your argument for scooping against gouki/spyral/combo decks, but I don't think that this applies to people looking to get into yugioh or trying to play competative. I generally scoop when the opponen opens amazing, but after taking a 6 month break I went to ycs atlanta (without going to locals beforehand) and let my opponents go off so I could learn the Meta and familiarize myself with the competative decks. So basically I think scooping only allies if you understand the opponents deck in a way that let's you set up game 2. Ex. Making dweller against gouki
AceDMan16 Gaming I think he kind of took that for granted, and just assumed everyone is familiar with the meta game. I haven't thought of that issue either. Good point though.
Obi-Wan Kenobi I mean I don't think it's taken for granted. The point of these videos if for people that ate playing the game and want to get better, but some extremely casual players may not understand stuff like this.
AceDMan16 Gaming the main 2 are both meta decks, if you're playing in a tournament you should know what they do
The Brofessor well the majority of players are casuals. I generally play either the 3rd or 4th best deck and still have,alot of people even at reigonals and ycs's ask about card effects.
Well, in this situation, you're playing not only to win, but to learn the meta. He's not talking about that. And learning how decks work can be done in your own free time.
This is a thing in magic sometimes when you realize the opponent is playing a fast combo deck or fast aggro and you realize game 1 you can't do anything meaningful against it.
I was pleasantly surprised, I figured this would just be a video about degenerate strategies like scooping with 5 minutes left in game two and just doing burn damage to win game three in time.
I topped deck a raigeki and won a duel against gouki and I won that gam and match, but completely understand what you mean, plus this was locals
did the exact same at locals yesterday lol
how is getting first place at a tournament even hard lol just play blue eyes and hard open soul charge + raigeki every turn lol
It's ok to see your top deck but if you know you can't win. Why play into time and give your opponent the information??
*Strategically putting 3 pot of generosity*
In Magic, there's a urban legend of a pro player cutting important cards for their combo in order to run more answers; people kept scooping when it was "obvious" he had it. In top 8, another pro makes him do the whole combo, and he admits that he doesn't have it.
It was Nassif running Ad Nauseam, I believe.
1:32 It can actually still be advantageous to scoop the first game early in Magic to conceal information from your opponent. I mean if you can't win the game anyway, what bearing does it really have on your tiebreakers? It's true though that this strategy might have more diminishing returns in Magic. For example, if you mulligan into oblivion and your opponent opens on a generic discard spell like Thoughtseize, it might be good to scoop because it's unlikely you'll get back into the game anyway, but given how Thoughtseize is played in a variety of different decks that all require different sideboard plans, you most likely don't know what to sideboard against either. Yu-Gi-Oh timeout rulings sound like absolute bullshit btw.
Dzeeff what deck do you mainly play in Hearthstone?
Austin with the REAL questions
This past week Ive been grinding to Rank 5 with Recruit Hunter
dzeeff same actually! It’s my favorite deck of the current format, I haven’t managed to hit legend yet ‘cause of paladins but the climb’s going well
You seen any of stancifka’s vids on his build? Dude’s found some great success
Whatever happened to “heart of the cards”?
If you’re losing, shouldn’t you flashback to your childhood friendship before drawing the next card?
in duel links when they released masked heros a lot of people would surrender when they see the anki kill your guy and search a mask change but a lot of times they didn't own another anki XD I got some free wins by making sure the kill me or al least have leathal on board as opposed to what I think is leathal in hand. now all masked hero players have 3 anki but a week into the box release for that kc cup it was a lot more uncommon
Now that I know what my opponents strategy is, I will surprise him with 3 Magical Cylinder in the next duel!
thanks really informative
Watching this in 2020, all of the SPYRAL stuff still applies
On a similar topic I think people should only be allowed to scoop during their stand-by face.
That's stupid. It's 100% someone's choice when to scoop and they can and should be able to do it whenever. Like he said, there's no point in watching my opponent make a board that I'm most likely not going to break when I can just get to the outcome (me losing) faster.
Vman87 True So just scoop during your standby phase then.. I think in certain ocassions it can be done in unsportsmanship ways such as an when Victory Dragon or Self Destruct button where legal. People would just immediately scoop before the attack or effect went through
Problem is if my opponent's turn takes forever even if they play at a reasonable pace. Again like he said, every second and minute is precious with the new time rules. If opponent makes a busted board, time just got wasted on my end for nothing if I'm watching him play solitaire.
You ever played against Cardians?
Match winners should have never been created.
I'm surprised you didn't mention Victory Dragon.
Because it’s *BANNED!*
This is one thing that I'm good at. I know how to lose quickly
*_I chose to lose, so you may win._*
I think bringing up MTG doesn't really work here. Game-wins are only ever taken into account during a tiebreaker, and only after taking into account the opponent's Match-win percentages. It's a really corner case, and it barely comes up. People strategically scoop to conceal information in MTG all the time.
can you pls do a video about upstart goblin and pot of duality ?
or is there already a video ?
Dzeff do u have any video about Fur Hires?
I did this a few times with Mermails at a regional.
Scooped game 1 in my last regional when my opponent flipped anti spell before my opponent knew what I was playing so went to game 2 he couldn’t side and I got to free side in so had s easy win game 2
Can you explain how do dark worlds work or explain concepts of it
Dzeeff. Could you do a video on deck discriminators in the game of Yugioh. Assuming you haven’t already.
A couple of weeks ago a guy came late for round one and I was supposed to play him. He came 25 min late and belligerently didn’t want a round loss. I said I refuse to play him this late in time. He responded by saying, You afraid to lose to me you Blue Eyes playing p***y?”
Same guy played a kid and lost to Flower Cardians. Guy was playing pure Strikers at the time. He berated the kid’s deck and said how such a deck is so bad it should not be played and that the kid was a scrub of worst kind. This may have been sour grapes comment, but the kid left the tournament even though he was 1-1.
Tried talking to kid saying not to listen and that he beat him so he should be proud of his deck. Kid still left and never came back. The other player was not disciplined or banned from store despite other players’ pleads.
Sorry about the long summary, but this subject is very important to me and should be addressed more.
For some reason I thought there was a version of the game you were supposed to lose. ...that would be a cool mode...
you could just deck yourself out
Hey!!!!! Is it good to spend money on D/D/D deck? I really like them it was the first deck i had about 2 years ago before links. Pls give me deck suggestions. Oh btw d/d/d deck has the archfiend link that’s what Im asking if it is good with ash blossom as a hand trap. Please i really wanna start competative even though Im 14!!!!!!! Im asking what deck should i get havent gotten any and lost all my d/d/d Cards so any deck recommendations are fine. Pls and thank you. Anyone. I also have ciphers but only Cards from dimension guardians
If you already have an idea of what your deck is, look up their prices and then ask if you can build a better deck for the same price or cheaper. I can almost guarantee there are better decks for competitive play for the same price or cheaper.
Vman87 give me some cheap decks I can do this with please. I actually only play with my friends and I don't know what things are good/bad so that's why I'm asking on a Yu-Gi-Oh video where people know stuff.
Yeah man, just bare with me cause this is going to be lengthy. I'm more of a rogue and budget player myself. Right now, I'm playing burning abyss just because of how well it floats and plays around handtraps. I just checked and Dante gold rare is below $10 on ebay and I'm sure Beatrice is around the $5 area or maybe even lower. The main deck cards aside from staple handtraps are for the most part cheap where I don't think anything is really over $2. Another deck that kind of plays similar and is around the same price is ABC. ABC might be cheaper since the cards are from a structure deck, but that structure deck was like 2 years ago so I'm not 100% sure. Mermails also can be fairly cheap if you go with lower rarity cards. The best part about the decks I mentioned above is that for the most part they never get powercrept. Your money really doesn't go to waste because they're rogue decks at worst practically every format. Now if you want to go with something more top tier and don't mind waiting a few months, I'd say wait for the mega tins at the end of August. Gouki monsters are cheap for the most part since they're commons and rares, but your extra deck which primarly consists of staples can be expensive. The good news is cards like firewall dragon and borreload dragon are getting reprinted in the mega tins. The only cards that won't be in the mega tins which you'd have to run are the knightmare cards, but only two of them are like $30 if you don't mind paying that as the only expensive part of the deck. Last thing I'll say is I suggest subscribing to Cimooo. He does top 5 budget decks every format with really good input on how and why they're good, but I personally wouldn't pay too much attention to his last video he recently made cause some of those decks weren't really budget.
Vman87 thanks a lot! I'll check into it
Magic player here: While you do report your game W/L, they don't really matter. They are used for the second round of tiebreaks, after all of your opponents records, so they mostly irrelevant.
Ive been strategically losing matches a lot, does that mean I'm secretly amazing?
People just give up the match when I flood the field with my blue eyes deck
The meta would actually be worth playing if more people bought the kaiba starter deck or collectors box
Wolfe2318 then the game would be 1000000 times slower
But... wouldn't you want to see your oponent play solitaire doing his combo? He's actually revealing a lot of information to you by doing that. So you should actually leave your oponent to play his combo and practically take a peek at half his deck in order to plan something to counter it.
I'm a master loser, taking every chance to lose like the best.
But instead of surrendering, wouldn't it be better to just do nothing? It would end the same way but you could actually see more cards of your opponent.
Time is generally more valuable than information if you already know what your opponent is playing
Can you make a deck building vid
Scoop?
it doesn't really matter since yugioh has no mulligan
*playing any FTK or burn deck*
*wins first game*
*surrender game 2*
*go first 3rd game and FTK or burn*
Scooping is for noobs
Just believe in the heart of the card
How the fuck do you lose strategically In a Shadow Game?!
victory dragon lol
I go 4 to 45 in all my yu hi oh games 😅😥😭 🔫. Yo I'm playing , I'm not that bad
What if my Side Duck isn’t that good Doug?
NinStarRune 😂 side duck
Didn't you do this against Cimoooooo at one point a few months back during the 'grudge' match.
But he sided for Frogs cause he knew you were playing it anyway
Yes on both accounts
dzeeff Thought so
Strategic is being used here as an adjective for losing?
Yes
Multigame conditioning
The title seems misleading. It seems more like “know when to fold ‘em” than “throw the game”.
"HOLD UP"!!!so can i safely play my beloved cyber twin/cyber end,Feat.Power bond deck back from the gx era again?!😍🤔😯if so......."WEED EM BOY'S"!!!!!😎😏😎"hold up hold up HOLD UP!!!"😎"We Make a NOISEEE!!!!!"😏
Nah, we all know you are just making excuses because you lost to the god cards, go back to not being a pack opening channel, kappa
Just play 3copies of magic cylinder you can't lose