240GB NGFF SSD for Boot, 500GB NVMe for Data - 566
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ต.ค. 2024
- I have planed to install the 240GB KingDian NGFF M.2 SSD as an Boot disk in my Lenovo x3650 M4. But also an Samsung 500GB EVO NVMe M.2 SSD that was purchased with the support from my Patreons. ( / myplayhouse )
Link - KingDian M.2 NGFF 240GB : amzn.to/2vB83Hr
Link - Samsung 960 EVO - 500GB NVMe : amzn.to/2wgOA0I
Link - 2 Slots Card M.2 NGFF & NMe : amzn.to/2GtnHzF
Link - ATI FirePro V7900 : amzn.to/2nTQ7IS
Link - PCI-E 8-Pin to 2* 6+2 GPU Cable : amzn.to/2qmFQVR
Link - x3650 M4 PCIe Riser Card 2 (1 x8 FH/FL + 2 x8 FH/HL Slots)
: amzn.to/2nXQ3Eg
Link - x3650 M4 PCIe Riser Card 2 (1x16 for GPU+1x8 FH/HL Slots)
: amzn.to/2m8LHtM
Link - Lenovo x3650 M4 : amzn.to/2ltBM4E
________________________________________________________________
/ myplayhouse
Even just 1$ a month, comes out to the same as Binge-watching all of my 500+ Videos every month.
My PlayHouse is a channel where i will show, what i am working on. I have this house, it is 168 Square Meters / 1808.3ft² and it is full, of half-finished projects.
I love working with heating, insulation, Servers, computers, Datacenter, green power, alternative energy, solar, wind and more. It all costs, but I'm trying to get the most out of my money, and my time.
Correcting a little misconception. All M.2 devices are NGFF (New Generation Form Factor) devices. Because thats the name of the form factor.
NVMe is a protocol for comunicating storage devices to the system usin the PCIe interface.
SATA is a legacy protocol for comunicating storage devices to the system using a sata controller.
Both Can use the same form factor for simplicity. And both are named NGFF.
Hi Guillermo Frontera
Thank You very much!
Thank you for watching! :-)
JarodMadePro
I had seen the same misconseption in various videos. I'm wondering why is getting so poppular this confusion...
The problem is the mixed operation, the NGFF is addressed as SATA 6G and the NVMe as PCIE v1 M.2. This means a speed reduction of approx. 65% between mainboard and adapter card. Because I had exactly the same problem. The NGFF SSD is throttled by the bus on SATA 2 1,5G. That's why the violent drops
Hi Snowwolf LP
Thank You very much!
Thank you for watching! :-)
Grab the program called Speccy and run it inside of your 2016 Virtual machine, it should tell you whether it is communicating via sata-2 or sata-3 to those ssd drives. It may not report properly under a VM but worth a try.
Hi Unkyjoe's Playhouse
Thank You very much!
Thank you for watching! :-)
I have used "Kingdian" memory units in a few machines over the last few years, mainly small 8-16 gb, allowing me to test systems without installing and wasting a good SSD or the like, and I have never had one issue with them, as you surmise , not well known outside Asia, and as they are low cost they probably have a good enough market without needing the west :)
Hi Silas Hack
Thank You very much! I have no idea what is going on :-/
Thank you for watching! :-)
Hmm would it be that the sata port the CD is on does not have full bandwidth?, your issue could also be using a $6 card as the conduit for the 2x M2 drives :-'
Hi Silas Hack
Thank You very much! There is nothing on that $6 card,, and the NVMe works fine :-/
Thank you for watching! :-)
ODD port could be v2 or even v1. even at v1 speed, it should be at least 140-ish :/
maybe try to swap the SATA cable?
Same. I've only used them for testing and playing around instead of "main" disks.
I can say with 90% confidence that the variance in speed was caused by VMware write caching your thin provisioned disk (hence the high write speeds) until it filled the cache memory and host system started flushing, without telling Windows guest of the progress. This is why you experienced an actual halt in the copying process. If you could ssh into the underlying host and run nmon (or anything similar) you would see all cpu cores busy in iowait state. Common for all vm hosting solutions when vm is given writeback policy for disk access. Hope it helps...
Hi Ivan Maglica
Thank You very much! glad you liked the video :-)
Thank you for watching! :-)
Can't wait for you to get your hands on NVDIMMs! They will spank what NVMe SSDs can do!
Hi Peter
Thank You very much! glad you liked the video :-)
Thank you for watching! :-)
I am sorry Morten, but I need to point something out. Both drives in your video are "NGFF" drives with M.2 interface, where NGFF stands for "new generation form factor". The difference is in the interface protocol, which can be SATA for the top drive on your interface card or PCIe 4x for the NVME drive on the bottom slot. If you look at 5:51 mark in this video you will notice NGFF naming on both slots.
Just wanted to help you get the terminology right in the future and avoid missinforming your viewers ;)
Hi photo20d
Thank You very much!
Thank you for watching! :-)
Oh nerds
One thing you can try is disable the OS caching, and also run the drives with SCSI mode instead of 'IDE', I have noticed some strange bursting with Server 2016 OS when handling big files.
Hi Simon Clough
Thank You very much!
Thank you for watching! :-)
Maybe the sata port for the DVD drive is sata 2 . Never seen an ssd performing so bad
Hi sai prakash
Thank You very much! maybe!
Thank you for watching! :-)
I like your videos, you almost convinced me to look for an old server. With respect to this video and the Chinese SSD. With 141MB/s it is more like the limit is SATA-1 with its 150MB/s maximum, which would be sufficient for a dedicated DVD SATA connection. I had a SSD on SATA-2 and that one did reach 280MB/s close to the theoretical maximum of 300MB/s for SATA-2. Almost same ratio 141/150 and 280/300.
To offer some comfort, I'm convinced that the fast boots from SSD are mainly due to the absence of the disk arm seek movement, each taking 1-10 msec. The transfer of a 4k block would take 0.027 msec on SATA-1 and that is neglectable compared to the seek times, which are approx. 100 times as long. The higher transfer rates have less influence on boot times also because of smart pre-loading and caching by the OS.
Moving my SSD from SATA-2 to a PCIe SATA-3 card did improve the throughput in the benchmark to 480MB/S (the limit of that SSD), but boot time and responsiveness did not improve very noticeably anymore.
I have the 960 Evo in gentoo Linux and works super fast !! Excellent nvme disk
Hi Matias M.
Thank You very much! glad you liked the video :-)
Thank you for watching! :-)
Let's give a try the speed tests in a bare metal Windows Server installation to avoid VMWare caching features... :) .
Hi Guillermo Frontera
Thank You very much! glad you liked the video :-)
Thank you for watching! :-)
I experienced performance issues with ESXI 6.5 when using an SSD. Noticed that uploading ISO's to the data store went terribly slow. There was driver issue in ESXI 6.5 (not sure which build), had to update it to a later version to get that fixed. See communities.vmware.com/thread/554004 for more info.
If you ever run into this by using some older ISO for setting up the ESXI host, make sure to update it after install :-)
For the performance issue with the King-thinghy-SSD, maybe it was on SATA300 or some bad ATAPI/IDE instead of AHCI mode in the bios. Or just some Chinese quality hardware...
Hi prescan7000
Thank You very much! glad you liked the video :-)
Thank you for watching! :-)
Thank you for all the videos, just have a question for you, now, I am building a FreeNAS 11.3 U4 on my IBM X3530 M4 (7160) and I bought the ADATA 1T NVMe M.2 try to boot as UEFI (v3.4) from NVMe, ( I use Orico NVME M.2 expansion card PDM2 as connect the ADATA NVMe and PCIe on IBM x3530 M4), I successfully booted the FreeNAS on USB 3.0, but looks cannot find the option for boot from NVMe when I push the F12 to choose the boot menu. Since your video from 3 years ago, and you use SSD as boot, and NVMe as Data, is that means you studied that NVMe still cannot boot on IBM X3530(or 3550) M4 today? if can, how to do that? Thank you in advance.
I did a video just last week, trying to boot from NVMe on the x3650 M4,, I was unsuccessful 🤨
@@MyPlayHouse Thank you for the update, and I changed another card on ebay, which I can find in the UEFI, but still cannot boot from that, appreciated your reply.
its esxi mine does that also. its the thin provisioning. if you do thick use the whole space its good no drops in transfer
Hi Dustin Marklow
Thank You very much! I might try that.
Thank you for watching! :-)
Great long winded af video! Ty for sharing.
Hi Cwspod Music Studio
Thank You very much! glad you liked the video :-)
Thank you for watching! :-)
@@MyPlayHouse am looking for an sas3 12gbps dual port drive tray for nvme adapter. 3.5 inch drive bays x24. U kno of any product like this?
Speaking of server grade, Morten what do you think about Micron EMC P320h? Someone on Ebay is reselling "NEW Micron EMC P320h 700GB Internal (MTFDGAR700SAH-1N1AB) SSD" for $500, SLC 50PB endurance server SSD.
I wonder if it fell down the truck or something to sell at 1/10 original price.
Edit: I looked into the seller and it appears to be standard liquidation/surplus wholesaler, the price seems legit after all. Quite a deal for this type of hardware :o.
Hi rasz
Thank You very much! I do not know it..
Thank you for watching! :-)
that unknown SSD will be just-good-enough for boot drive but sure they might be not lasts for high data traffic. thought you just use them for boot drive.. the main difference between EVO and PRO is the sustainable speed on big data. PRO series could maintain their speed while EVO will be dropped when its cache were full of data (TLC chip is slower than MLC).
if your SSD were extensively used, i'd recommend to get the 960 PRO since they have longer warranty and higher TBW rating than 960 EVO. or maybe get the 950 PRO if you don't mind to have a slower transfer speed
Hi S. Kojina
Thank You very much!
Thank you for watching! :-)
NVMe SSD professional limit may be VMware ESXi driver issue
I use Samsung SM961 256GB SSD to Supermicro X11SSH-LN4F for datastone read test around 1500MB/s,
but SM961 256GB normal is Read : 3200MB/s & Write 1800MB/s
Hi HKMichaelKing
Thank You very much!
Thank you for watching! :-)
Thanks for another interesting test.
The bottleneck of you tests is esxi VM write speed. If you use thin provinsion esxi probably write zeroes before real write or verify writes ( read data after write ). If you use thick ( not lazy ! ) then you have full write speed. The question is what storage is your win2016? I see thin on video.
My persolnal tests 4x900GB sas 10k raid10 on shity ibm sas controller , esxi 5.5, thick - write over 100 MBps, thin - write 20 MBps. Phisical hp server 4x300GB sas 15k raid5 , average read over 450, write over 150. :/
Another tip, in esxi advanced setting you could set read/write block size. Default is probably 32KB, i think its too small for SSD. Could you make some test on your SSD disks? I dont have access to such SSD toys :]
Hi Wojciech Broda
Thank You very much! for the good sugestions, glad you liked the videos :-)
Thank you for watching! :-)
The Remote Desktop is causing all your drops in transfers. Went through this myself a year or 2 ago....try it directly from the server with a screen attached. And ya the nvme should do 2500 read and 1500 write.
Hi Gprime31
Thank You very much! sounds weird!! but well weird stuff happens.
Thank you for watching! :-)
the red sata cable looks very cheap, this can also harm the performance. would use rounded sata III cables instead. rounded because of better airflow in the server
Hi SteelVsMetal
Thank You very much! good suggestion!
Thank you for watching! :-)
no it cant, sata cable can either work, or generate lots of errors which will be trapped quickly on server hardware.
SOLUTION SUGGESTED!hi Morton, I had exactly same issue with copying files on my new created raid 5 and raid 1 on my 3550 m3's. it drove me mad and after the light came on in my brain I figured it must be in the 5025 raid controller had reverted the write back with BBU failed and reverted it to direct write.so I changed the setting on the raid card to write back and the copy of files is now solid as a rock.kind regards and good luck with your playhouse. I love your videos
Hi Martin Heuckeroth
Thank You very much! glad you liked the video :-)
Thank you for watching! :-)
Nice video! Do you know if the x3550 M4 or x3650 M4 support booting from NVMe?
Hi Harald K
Thank You very much! No I do not know :-)
Thank you for watching! :-)
@@MyPlayHouse Hi. Ok, thanks. I ordered a PCI-adapter and will test this for myself when I receive it.
These EVO drives uses TLC based NAND, so these will got much slower after cache runs out. But result shouldn't be that bad.
www.thessdreview.com/featured/samsung-960-evo-m-2-nvme-ssd-review-250gb1tb/6/
Hi 15fakeaccount
Thank You very much! glad you liked the video :-)
Thank you for watching! :-)
The performance issue, I suspect the Esxi native drivers! (had the sae problem on my white box running z10ped16ws) , However, I have never heard the brand of NVME drive. I'd suggest you try the Drive on windows computer to benchmark it
Links: kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?language=en_US&cmd=displayKC&externalId=2147565
anthonyspiteri.net/esxi-6-5-storage-performance-issues-fix/
to troubleshoot further, I'd recommend ESXTOP> U and look at the DQLEN and DAVG
observer the difference b/w when the drives are idle and when at load (DQLEN)
Disable native driver to see if that makes a difference!
Just curious tho, How are you managing to use the nVidia Grid Card?
Nick I think also using a Thin provisioned disk could have some issues when ESXi needs to expand, don't you agree?
Hi Stefano Bettega
Thank You very much!
Thank you for watching! :-)
Yes, but Negligible in my experience since we are talking about flash storage!
When you tested it (M.2 NGFF SATA/KingPien) in desktop computer the speeds were OK.
Hi Boskorp
Sorry that was the KingSpec 120GB,, this is the KingDian 240GB :-)
Thank you for watching! :-)
HDtune is not really a benchmark that is commonly used for SSD's.
Hi John Kristian Aasen
Thank You very much! glad you liked the video :-)
Thank you for watching! :-)
Hey Morten!
I think you should verify if any antivirus software is messing with the copy operation. I already had in the past these weird latencies because of .exe files being scanned before being copied during a copy operation.
Hoping I could help.
Cheers from France ! :)
Hi Timothée Sartore
Thank You very much! But I am not running any antivirus on that server.
Thank you for watching! :-)
Are there a lot of small files in that folder if so that would cause the slow down, better to zip it then copy.
Hi Micheál Finane
NO something like 20 files.
Thank you for watching! :-)
passthru the NVMe drive directly to that VM if possible for real testing and run Crystal Disk Mark 5.x instead of the 3.0.3 that I saw and maybe the SATA Controller that runs te SATA (CD-Rom) interface
Remember get Shizuku Edition of CrystalDiskMark for better user experience!
yes cute girls will look your way
Hi Sakura Kinomoto
Thank You very much! I need more cute girls to look my way!!
Thank you for watching! :-)
HEY I NEED HELP!
If anyone knows the specifics:
I bought and samsung nvme 970 pro m.2 ssd and acidentally bought a ngff to sata m.2 adapter.
I tried to plug it and an it fit in there perfectly, but surprise surprise it didn't work, and got kinda hot.
Is my M.2 ssd screwed now? I'm planning on buying the right adapter a nvme to sata adapter but I wonder if I already broke it. Does anybody know if that would be the case? :/
That is not good,, hope it ok?
But M.2 NVME and M.2 SSD is not the same thing! The NVME uses the PCI-e and the SSD needs a sata port.
Did you solve this? Did you do a follow up video, whats the video number?
Hi Steve does Linux
No I did never solve it,, believe it was just a bad M.2 SSD and with bad I mean extremely slow..
Thank you for watching! :-)
Hi.
I have quick question for you.
This adapter will work on x3650m3 or not?
Hi Nixoid Tab
Yes it does,, I have used it on an x3650 M1 and my M4
Thank you for watching! :-)
My PlayHouse Did you try boot server from m.2 ssd?
Hi, I would like to Know your opinion about what is faster hardware:
Option 1) server DL580 G8 with 1Tb RAM ddr3 with Windows 10 from storage from NVME 2.0 PCIE 3.0 X16.
Option 2) Any Motherboard 64Gb DDR4 with Windows 10 with Windows 10 from storage from NVME 2.0 PCIE 4.0 X16.
The Cpu with same powerfull in both options.
Could you help me, please?
Thanks very much for everything. 😊
The DL580 G8 use quite a bit of power,, and it is more of a bus, than a racing car. The other system is most likely faster.
@@MyPlayHouse Thanks very much, now I will go to the way of racing car
i think windows might be responsible for the strange transfer behavior. i had exactly the same problem on my computer which is running windows 10. the transfer speed would be fast for a few seconds and would then drop to a ridiculously low transfer speed. but booting in Linux on the same computer i could get consistently high transfer speeds.
Hi Sam B
Thank You very much! glad you liked the video :-)
Thank you for watching! :-)
The SATA port for the CD-ROM is probably the slowest version sata1 since drive doesn't need a fast port. I am not a fan of Samsung products, way too many issues with them. I had a bad experience with their customer service which completely sucked. So I will never buy any thing from them but their chips are used in other products.
Hi Scott Downey
Thank You very much! I have gotten a lot of sugestions to what can be going on here.
Thank you for watching! :-)
Buenos dias, aun no he visto el video, espero resolver mi duda sobre el NGFF, porque compre un adaptador y no pude usarlo,, ya que no enbonaba bien, saludos
Sorry,, English Please
I don't think those read speeds for the RAID 1 SSD's are correct. The read speed for each drive is only 450-500MBS.
Synthetic benchmarks never report correctly when benching a raid card with cache
Hi GreenZero
Thank You very much! glad you liked the video :-)
Thank you for watching! :-)
Why don't you invest in a true m.2 pcie card you can boot off of. If your bios/uefi can boot off pcie/m.2 card. Of have your boot hard drive on 2tb of server ram.
Hi I'm the father of God, and I'm disappointed in God and you gullible melon farmers
It might,, I haven't tried or investigated that.
Thank you for watching! :-)
your results are a bit strange. 1760 MB/s from a normal SSD in Raid 1 (not 0) seems to much even for sata3 thats to much - i guess you tested your chache of the raidcontroller and not the SSDs.
you shouldn't test it in a server behind ESXi.
Hi Marc W.
The Raid controller has a Gigabyte cache,, that is really fast.
Thank you for watching! :-)
yeah. thats what i meant. the 1760MB/s are pure cache ... not the SSDs behind it. The SSDs are probably around 400-550MB/s readspeed too like the writespeed.
And for the Copytest you should use a RAM-Disk as source and target.
TH-cam is messing up, and climes that I have not replied to this,, sorry for the "disturbance in the force" :-/
my eyes are bleeding, please dont waste that amazing 960 evo and spend additional 25$ and buy proper pcie x4 -> m2 adapter
Hi wolinas
Thank You very much! Do you have a suggestion?
Thank you for watching! :-)
I personally use SilverStone ECM21
www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=703&area=en it cost around 25$ on Amazon
this is just an example but im pretty sure there are plenty of other such a devices
Also I cant confirm that it will allow you to boot from such device but at least you wont lose that amazing read/write speed. You have to check it on your own at Lenovo/IBM specs. UEFI settings req. for sure.
It is straight passtrough, so there probably aren't any performance or reliability issues.
I was thinking the same thing!
Why am i receiving " Notification " randomly 2 3 hours late! So weird . Last year i'm cheap Chinese unknown branded M.2 SSD 2x RAID1 putted in semi test/production server. Recently read write speed becoming a bit slower.
Hi Mr Laodonren
Thank You very much! I have little control over TH-cam,, but the Bell thing helps,, I think.
Thank you for watching! :-)
you obviously have cache hits on your raid 1 test. You don't test the drives ... you basicly test your raid controllers cache. Kind of misleading. Do a test with 9x32GB runs for a more correct result.
Hi John Kristian Aasen
Thank You very much!
Thank you for watching! :-)
Alguien sabe porque mi pc tiene 8 gb de ram y es una mierda
HI Fernando Gv.
My channel is English, and to make sure as many as possible, can also enjoy the comments, they are also English.
Please keep to English.
Thank you for watching! :-)
I believe I'm first, that's what my screen is showing
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use ramdisk
Hi Imba Core
Thank You very much! glad you liked the video :-)
Thank you for watching! :-)
the central focus of this vid is ""240GB NGFF SSD for Boot, 500GB NVMe for Data - 566"
please stick to this and avoid all the peripheral talktalk, for example, where this or that card goes and why it goes here and not there. i say this as i feel your vid is just way toooooo long and after a while it gets sort of tedious.
You should read the manuals,, this video thing, is not for you!.