What's the temperature resistance of annealed PLA, PETG and ABS?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2024
- I test the heat resistance of different 3D printing materials. I compare "as printed" and annealed condition of PLA, PETG and ABS as well as a high temperature PLA and 3dkTOP. You'll be suprised to see how annealing changes the temperature behavior of PLA!
The tests are comparable to the heat deflection temperature tests from ISO 75 or ASTM D648. I design the jig in Fusion 360, create the toolpaths in the CAM module and CNC the part on my router.
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What's you experience with using prints at higher temperatures and annealing PLA? If you have any suggestions please let me know down below!
I wonder if the shrinkage percentage in each axis is constant for annealed PLA? If so then we could oversize our prints by that percentage amount and keep the expected dimensions.
it's pretty much consistent, at least according to my experiments. But if you need screw holes to be precisely positioned, you better do the annealing process with the PLA piece screwed in position and solidly clamped.
hey man, can you test the annealed PLA with gasoline, will it brake? hope you read this thanks
Hey what about the mentioned amazon affiliation links? i find none in this description :(
Have you tested 3D Fuel's Pro PLA? It claims 90C resistance when annealed. I have attempted, however there were gaps in the layers and thus didn't suit my needs.
He's like the project farm of 3D printing
ikr
Amen to that exactly
🤣
Spot on!
It's really amazing to have have a guy like Stefan making these very scientific tests, as opposed to others who just say "I think this just works better for me".
His methodology and attention to details are quite something!
Very useful research, good job!
Wow really interesting results and as always great video. I love your scientific approach to 3d printing and ypur research is always interesting
Exactly what I was looking for - incredibly useful video. I just subscribed thanks to this awesome and precise comparison video. Thank you SO much for doing it! Nice work!
Wow! After a thorough work like that, there's just no way I wouldn't subscribe! Congratulations Stefan (hope this is right)! Did learned something with your vid and looking forward for more!
Super methodology and perfect execution in a well illustrated, to-the-point video.
Subscribed!
I must say... I have mad respect for anyone that makes a CNC router using drawer sliders!!!
aight ty, this video has been really helpful
im currently making a clip for some Led chips and their heatsinks so this really comes in handy
This video is AWESOME! you definitely deserve more subscribers! (and you just got a new one)
great job! this was put together so well
Thank you for including HTPLA, I feel like it doesn't get enough attention, and therefore doesn't get included in testing. Fantastic setup, thank you for making this.
Great experience but perhaps location on the jig may be a factor due to the nature that air will flow around the outsides of the jig. I am going to do a variation of this for strength testing. Love your channel!
Fantastic! You rock!
Thanks for sharing your results. I'm really impressed. :-)
Bought you a beer mate, Enjoy! Keep up the great work.
Excellent. Even I have no 3D printer (now) this is really helpful to know. Thank you for your effort to do all the research, setting up the test rig and spending so much time and material (=€) and share your results.
I'm happy that you like the content!
Good job man. REALLY GOOD JOB. That is true science !!!
Nice test. Thank you!
Awesome and interesting content! Thanks for sharing!
Nice topic, nice editing, thanks
Really really excellent video!
I’d love to see a 2019 update on filament high temperature resistance. PS. I live in Australia... It gets to 40C+ for days and days. Real hot here is 45C+
Love your vids. It would be so cool to see a video on how you built your custom CNC machine.
This was super helpful!
THANK YOU! Very informative.
Thnx for the info man, very awesome!
Wow, well done
Thanks for sharing 😀👍
Very interesting! I'm very surprised at the drastic difference between annealed and non annealed plastic for most of the test subjects
Thank you for your thorough methodologies, controlled testing, graphs, and summary: many/most videos of this type are either incomplete, inaccurate, uncontrolled, or difficult to extract actionable data from. KUDOS!
Another fantastic, very well thought out and made video. Good work. I love to see this kind of work for the 3D printing community. I'll be sure to drop some cash to your PayPal later this weekend.
Thanks, that's highly appreciated! I really enjoy sharing my research with you in order to evolve the technology and the knowledge about it.
CNC Kitchen I'm the same, but have no idea or talent when it comes to making videos!
I'm currently building a better machine in order to print larger polycarbonate, and hopefully POM parts. I print nylon, petg, abs, nylon-cf, petg-cf and various others at the moment. Trouble is I rely on passive heating of the chamber and have no control. It would be interesting to see you enclose your printer, and the effects of chamber temp on material properties.
keep up the good work!
Such a heat chamber will be one of my next projects before fiddling around with ABS because I don't really like the results at the moment. I guess POM's gonna be quite a challenge on a "hobby" printer?
I have had a lot bed adhesion problems when try to print in POM.
Try to do it on Kapton + Dimafix.
Cool! I was going to print some parts in PC but I might give PLA a try and anneal it.
Love your videos!
Would love to see an updated version of this for 2023. Here is a new pla+ I've been using that does well Hatchbox PLA PRO+
This was awesome! Thanks!
Such a great work ! -
It's worth mentioning that heat deflection temperature is also proportional to the induced stress in the material, which is why the test in ASTM D 648 has two loading conditions.
This is important because a single point really doesn't tell you much about its useful temperature range.
There’s 3 points
Loved your video. Learned alot. I'm needing to 3d print pieces of house guttering for curved section on our house. Does petg, or heat resistant pla put off bad fumes in printing like abs?
Hey Stefan! Thanks for your interesting video! Do you think you can anneal 3D printed PP with a Tg of -29 degrees?
This guy is the best love his videos
Great video! i'm using ABS on my projects (action figures). It's excellent!
Hi there, great video! Perhaps a bit off-topic, but when you heated your wooden jig up to 180-190 degC, did you have the impression that it was close to catching fire or not?
Thanks for your effort of making these videos.. Donation made :)
Thank you! I was trying to figure out if I should use PLA for making a portable retropie console that can run PS2 and Wii games. Now I realize that I should go with ABS.
Just annealed some test strips of eSun PLA Pro and MatterHackers standard PLA yesterday. Putting them in my car today in hot California heat to see if they hold up -- we will see !!!! As a side note you may want to leave your supports on parts for extra support when annealing My oven is set to 200Deg F using an oven thermometer, set for 30 minutes heat time and let room cool !
Just finished testing (tested in oven, not my car) and I can say without a doubt the annealed PLA is MUCH, MUCH better at higher temp. at 160+deg the annealed parts kept their shape after 20 minutes at which time I turned off the oven. At about 125+ deg the non annealed PLA gave up the ghost and warped badly. I have not tested for strength yet, but I bet it will be better than standard PLA. PLA+ shrunk less than standard PLA in the annealing process BTW.
Thanks for the info
I'm glad you mentioned you plan on doing carbon fiber filled materials. I'm very curious how much it improves the strength of a part.
this is some good info, i am planning to print some things for inside my car, and was worried about what material to use that wouldn't melt when parked in the sun.
The graph at 9:42 is all we need.
eSun ABS is the best for high temp if you don't want to deal with putting the print in an oven.
Fascinating, well presented young man, your English is fantastic! haben Sie einen guten Tag 😎
amazing work ! I made a PLA clip for the sun visor in the car of course it softened and bend out of shape in the car during the heat ... I will anneal it maybe it holds up
I'm quite positive that this will work. I actually had the same problem with a part in our camping van and now also need to reprint and anneal it with my new knowledge.
Did you do it? Findings?
Does annealing affect strength? This was a great video but only discussed temperature resistance. I would like to know if the different materials have better layer adhesion, more or less elastic/plastic deformation and ultimately the effect on their breaking point. Also does annealing change the appearance of fine details or smooth outer surfaces.
Will you do a follow up video showing how annealed materials performance is affected?
Also, wouldn't PETG and ABS have a different annealing temperature than PLA due to their higher temperature melting and transition temperatures?
You blew my mind!
Where did you get the plans for the cnc
Helpful video for me.
Danke, sehr nützlich!
cool Video
Loved it
Nice video.
I am also interested in how the material actual perform during the whole process. Does the ABS hold it's shape at 100?
Shouldn't be the annealing temperature for abs be 20-30 degrees higher? I mean you barely touched the glass transition temperature of abs, didn't you? Otherwise: Great test - you earned yourself a subscription! 😉
You cannot anneal abs. It doesn't do anything. Same with petg.
I wonder the same
Apparently you missed what he said at 1:10 into the video
Good job💝
Great Vid Thanks
Thank you for your Video!
Thank you, too!
hey stefan,
viele dank für das tolle video!
hab ich es richtig verstanden, dass ich das mit eigentlich jedem pla machen kann (also bei 110 grad in den ofen) und danach ist es viel hitzebeständiger?
Could you tell us how to make your wood CNC machine?
just check his video's. he already made that tutorial.. awesome Stefan! thanks for your good and educating video's!
awesome video
incredible had no idea PLA had this property
i printed a tool drawer under my ender 3 out of pla+. After i started printing using ABS...i made an enclosure and after several hours of a print i noticed my drawer started warping. I now have to reprint the drawer in ABS to avoid ambient temp inside the enclosure from melting my parts. lesson learned
I am very interested to see your test on annealing temperature on the results. More specifically if the deformation % changes with different temperatures. If you havent checked it out see the article by the Society of Plastics Engineers - Annealing conditions for injection-molded poly(lactic acid). I was thinking of making a temperature controlled water bath to anneal my parts.
I dint know it about pla. Good
Fantastic vid, as alway, I really appreciate your scientific approach. I'm amazed that annealed PLA did so well. It would be interesting to test the repeatability of the shrinkage to see if one could get accurate sizing by designing the parts larger than the finished product. I make some parts on regular basis with a critical internal dimension. I plan on testing some annealed PLA with a machined aluminum core set inside the part during the annealing process. Hopefully this would allow the part to shrink to the correct finished size. Any idea how this might effect the crystallization process? I may have to get creative on the design of the aluminum core as well since the PLA may be solidly attached after annealing.
Anyway, keep up the good work! Any idea when you might be releasing the source for your tensile testing machine?
An aluminum core might be working well, maybe just add a small taper that its easier to remove later. I will release the CAD and software for the tensile testing machine soon.
Great video! For the high temp PLA filament, where did you source it? Looking at a near 240 F max temperature application to hold its dimensional properties. Thanks!
+Matt Wirtz take a look at formfuturas volcano pla: th-cam.com/video/OzfXVH59LjM/w-d-xo.html
Thank you! Much appreciated for the fast response!
hay can you make a review on your cnc
hum... did any mention your prusa excluder cable is touching the bed?
Keep it up!
I searched for Multec PLA HT but could not find a seller online. Any pointers? Has it been discontinued?
At least for flat shapes like this using a pane of glass on top as well as the bottom would possibly prevent curling all together when heat treating.
You made your own CNC machine? Why did NASA ever let you go? (LOL)
I think I need to move in next door to you. Any blueprints for your CNC? I would love to make one. I have more than enough components and spare electric drills that would be perfect for that role.
Oh, and very informative video mate. I love how there is always someone with the answers to our questions (no matter how absurd they sound at first). I do not envision a time when I would need heat-proof printing, but it is certainly something for the knowledge bank. Sure as anything, one day this will be very important to me. I am taking notes. Thanks for going to all the effort. No doubt you have saved a lot of people a lot of time and a lot of tears. Well done.
I *baked my antenna for a GI Joe toy to increase strength as I found them just too brittle. It seemed to help. The oven trick is nice as I've used it to level warped parts or modify parts that I printed straight but needed an arch to them. I'm going to try petg and flexible pla for the antenna again and see if that's any better. In the meantime I increased the antenna mast size and printed in pla+ for increased disability.
Cool videos. Can I ask what its this blue thing you can see at 6:37 ? It seem like a protection for the nozzle... interesting.
It's a silicone sock which protects the nozzle from dirt but more importantly will isolate it to get more stable temperatures. You can take a look at it in my (rather embarrassing) first video I uploaded on my channel: th-cam.com/video/4NlPzp05VwY/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for video.one question though,how can you get htpla(in United Kingdom)?what's the name of manufacturer?or any information(to buy it on amazon)
Thank you!
I am pretty sure I can't really do this on functional parts. If, say, I print a Garmin mount for a bike, and anneal it, won't it distort to the point where the dimensions are no longer going to match the model that it was printed from? So in other words, this annealing is only useful for making things where the shape doesn't matter much.
I see a lot of people talking about how PLA cold flows. Does the annealing process help with this? I have not found good information on this. Seems like it could be interesting to test. Although a plastic engineer probably already knows the answer.
Thanks
Thank you for this. I am trying to print useable fishing lure molds for soft plastic. I was worried that the molds would deform or melt through to the infill from the heat of the hot plastisol when pouring it. Annealing the molds should help a lot.
Would you be able to inject silicone or something else that at room temperature cures into a plastic-ish material into your molds? Or low temperature glue guns seem to work at 120 C instead of the 180 plastisol requires? Maybe could line the molds with wax paper or something so they'll release and not just fuse the molds together and ruin them?
Please excuse if this is a self-evidently dumb suggestion.
@@angryzergling7832 Actually They have been working fine for injecting hot plastisol. I was surprised it worked so well. I have been using Esun PLA+ to print the molds without annealing . I inject the plastisol at 340 degrees ferenheit (170 celcius) without any problems. I do spray the molds with worm oil which is just a release agent for the plastisol (lol it's not made from worms just a funny name. I think it's a type of mineral oil). I think the oil offers a layer of protection from the heat for the PLA molds. thanks for the suggestion though, your idea would probably work as well.
Does that video have a next episode?
I have just removed a dash cam console, because it has somewhat melted in the recent days. It lived for about a week :(
(For future readers: Today is 2020-03-14, so there were no hot days so far)
Have you tried to anneal PLA in a metal fixture to retain shape? I need to have better heat resistance but can tolerance so much shrinkage. Are parts printed with higher infill percentage less prone to annealing shrinkage??? Looking for best approach with out exotic Prices Filaments. Dennis
What about on the cold side? What’s the “safe” temp for PETG when submitted to cold? Thanks
If would be awesome, if you could share a screenshot or a table of the results, for us nerds to really analyze. Also, have you considered trying to heat treat the pla covered in hot sand or some other medium that my force it to stay in its original shape? could be an interesting experiment. I know this technique is used when shaping / bending pvc pipe to ensure it does not collapse when it gets soft.
Did you end up trying this?
Whats the heat resilience for wood filament? Is it any good in high temperatures like if left in a car on a hot day.
I have a question
I want to 3d print some helmets/armor for the use of outdoor airsoft. I know that some materials will become soft when exposed to sunlight, so will heat treating parts help prevent this? Will coating the materials in paint also help?
What would be the most sound way of joining larger prints together to resist breaking? I've heard that using resin as a uv-cured glue works OK, but would that be stronger than just super glue or epoxy?
I haven't needed my prints to be above room temp 99.99% of the time, but its good to know for the 0.01% what works best.
Love how your CNC itself is made of wood
Is there any filament that could be used as a mouldfor something like pewter or solder material???
I don't understand the last chart. Does that mean, when i put the HT-PLA filament in the oven, that it can resist afterwards 140 °C, but when i take it directly out of the printer it resists just approx 50 °C ?
You must bake it over the glass temperature because else it would not resist more temperature than standard PLA?
I need a material that can resist 80 °C, but i don't want to put it in the oven after the print, because it will lose it shape.
Is there any material (without need enclosure printer), that can be printed via FDM and has good temperature resistance properties?
thankyou
Any updates on print heads that can make filaments more heat resistant?
I think there is a way to "anneal-print" I did some experiments with some PLA parts on annealing as I wanted to find out what dimensional changes will occur to adjust for that. Now I annealed some "fails" for that all fails of the non print variety (sometimes a part just does not look like or work like you expected so even though a perfect print - its a fail) I found some parts that did not change dimensions at all in any direction and also on a subsequent test when "poked" at 80 C with a screw driver did not dent whereas the other parts in the "poke test" deformed readily. Now the shrinking parts had all in common that they were printed on a makerbot replicator without a heated bed. The non shrinking where large parts (267mm x 54mm x 38mm ) imagine a block with lots of 14mm hex holes cut out of them) Now those were printed on my matterhackers PULSE (Prusa type printer) I tried to succeed to print it on my garolite build plate without tape when I upped the build plate temp to 80 C. Printer also has a crude enclosure. Now the trick when printing PLA with that high a bed temp is to not touch it until the bed is way back at room temp. So I guess they anneal printed as print time was about 10 hours plus about 30 min of cool down. Print came out nicely except aforementioned design fault) So my next test when I have free time will be to make a "mold" out of PLA by "anneal-Printing" it and then clamp a regular part printed on the makerbot in it and throw both of them in the convection oven - Maybe I make a video of it. Initial test of taking to annealed PLA plastic pieces and clamping an unannealed between it with a "C" clamp and cook it at 200 F - slightly over 90C showed the unannealed slightly deforming to the shape of the annealed pieces but more importantly at the end all 3 pieces came apart so even 90 C is not enough to "weld" a piece of non annealed PLA to a piece of annealed PLA. So maybe there is an all PLA way to maintain dimensional accuracy while annealing. Probably does not pay for 1 piece, but we will make 50 - 100 of those and another test probably would be how high a piece you can anneal-print on a pulse as the temperature definitely decreases the further away from the bed you get.
On what temperature will PLA soften? It's interesting to know since we know then what is the safe point.
Does annealing make pla hold its shape and resist uv rays better? Or should I stick to petg for my crawler parts!?
dankeschön ! Really very interesting ! Sadly my gas oven is unsuitable for this purpose, so thinking of other ideas - toaster oven + PLC maybe :)
+Jeremy Kelaher Well, you can still use the waterbath method which works as well. Just bring it to a boil, put your parts in and leave them in there with a lid on top. Might not be as consistent as an oven but still usable for many parts.
cheers ! I am guessing some part shapes will slump too much during these processes to make it work well ? Perhaps leave support material on for example ?
Big help, working on smoke systems for model trains. Thank you.