I use a wooden board with screws in it as a fixture to fix my parts to avoid warping in key areas eg. relative screw positions etc. works like a charm.
I think that's it's awesome that you guys did a video about this, Even if CNC kitchen has made a similar video, I think it would be super awesome to see a collaboration video or even a video comparing your resultes and maybe even doing some different kind of materials, the more testing and results the more information everyone can use to there advantage ! I'm glad that you guys also enlighten some more exposure on this subject because I would love to learn more and this video and CNC Kitchen videos has only added to the list of curiosity and questions I have about Annealing !
To help with the warping, you can stick the model in a bucket with sand and then anneal it. It will take longer but it won't warp out of shape. It will still shrink/expand however.
CNC Kitchen made some great videos to test that. What would be interesting for ABS and ASA is a slow heat treatment to get into the print core, then an acetone vapor treatment for exterior. But, that kind of test is only interesting for flat prints :(
Welcome to CNC Kitchen. I love both of your work, annealing is not so easy to do, having comparison curves like yours is very useful. Thanks a lot friends.
Thanks! My kit mk3s works fine, you and your crew did a great job on the printer! Would love to see the print farm in action one day ;) Good luck with future designs!
The dimension change is not constant with temperature but rather changes with each model. So ideally, you would print a model, anneal it, meassure, re-scale, print again and anneal again. - Mikolas
@@Prusa3D Well, some complex math + ability for the user to input the warp coeff. and potentially you could apply a reverse transform to the model (while slicing). Non-linear, of course, not just scale. Cheers!
I've annealed a few prints in Proto Pasta carbon fiber high temp PLA, and I had little to no shrinkage. I kept all the supports on as suggested. I was very happy with the outcomes every time.
I’ve tried annealing using a water bath (as heat distribution is more even than in an oven), but the parts I tested with were a lot smaller. Results were somewhat inconclusive, but you can read about my findings here: www.justinmklam.com/posts/2017/06/sous-vide-pla/
I don't know how much it actually inproves the strength, but I have hot air gunned 3d prints on certain aeras I want to bend slightly and it seems to end up stiffer and stronger
Layer adhesion is my biggest issue. I tried 100% printing, covering in plaster of Paris, then 'cooking' above the melting temperature. However even 100% 3D printing is not really 100%, so I found that the print would have voids at the top of the 'casting'. However the resulting casting is amazingly strong. I had the idea of using a spit oven with a mechanism to rotate the casting in 2 axes. This would create a hollow moulding, which would be fine, but somewhat complicated to make, although the rotating mechanism could also be used for rotational moulds. However I then realised, all I need to do is include spare material at the top of the print to ensure no voids and any excess can be trimmed, like sprues on an injection moulding. Strength is amazing and due to the plaster, dimensions remain accurate. The surface can also be sanded before casting, to create a decent finish too.
I got to see Josef at the 3D printer convention at Bel-Air a while back, and although I didnt get close enough to say hi, We purchased an i3 mk3. Great printer!
That ABS tension test; really different failure mode there. Also, I'll consider annealing some of my prints that have a chance to sit in the car; nifty.
Interesting results. Have you repeated the tests varying the annealing time at each temperature? Each material could soften at a different rate. Some materials might need more time to achieve better results.
PLA is semi crystalline, and increases crystallinity with annealing. You can observe that if you anneal transparent PLA, and thereby reduces transparency. That is also why the HDT increases substantially for PLA, as it lowers the amorphous-to-crystalline ratio, and the amorphous phase softens first. It is also no rule that crystalline structures are weaker or has less fracture toughness. And lastly in this stupidly long comment: the effect you are observing is not only about increased or decreased crystallinity, but a combination of various factors as reduced manufacturing strain, more molecules crossing the filament boundaries, reduced void sizes, reduced sharpness of the notches in the voids, changes in specimen geometry ++++.
I have tried annealing, and I still haven't found a viable use case. The main problem is that the shrinkage tends to trigger something akin to buckling instabilities, which causes straight walls to morph into curved walls. The shrinkage caused by annealing generally can't be correct just by adjusting some XYZ percentages. I presume the footage at 1:10 is exegerated, but it illustrates the issue: the parts don't merely shrink, they curve every which way in unpredictable and uncontrollable ways.
what do you use as an annealing surface? I have a PID controlled toaster oven and tried to anneal polymax pc at 100c after autotuning it. I put the test object on the metal cooking surface that came with the oven and it melted! 100c isnt even supposed to deform polymax PC so this means the surface heated it up more than the ambient air in the oven.
We used a circulating air oven. The toaster oven might be the culprit, as the heating wires typically reach a higher temperature to achieve browning of the food. Covering the print with a lid might help with this. -Mikolas
I've reprinted my MK3S extruder parts in ProtoPasta's HTPLA-CF (carbon fiber filled). Their published printing correction scaling is to print with x/y at 100.6% and z at 99%. After annealing, the parts seemed nearly identical to the Prusa printed originals. (I didn't put calipers on them though.) I didn't remove the parts from the print bed before annealing, so I don't know if that helped or hurt. I also didn't have any fitment issues when assembling the annealed parts. If anything I think the filament sensor might work a little better because the hard surfaces of the annealed parts slide against each other better than the Prusa printed PETG parts reducing the friction. One downside of the parts being harder is the heatsink rotates a little easier. I'll see if that is much of an issue after a few nozzle swaps, though the heater and thermistor cables do help constrain the rotation of the heater block.
No, Prusa recently released an official statement on their website indicating that they will not be making anymore content discussing, explaining or mentioning the Mini in any way, shape or form. Instead, they will be opting for documentation in the form of text only available for print in braille. Sorry dude :/
I've been studying your graphs about shrinkage XYZ, but the percent shrinkage was not given numerically, and impossible to determine from the graphs. Can these values please be provided along with the Filament Brand used (otherwise we all have to duplicate your work for all intents). Thanks in advance, and neat project!
Thank you for the video. The numbers of the impact tests seem wrong by the factor of 10, though. I think a unit error occured when you calculated the resistance. The titel on the y-axis should also not be "energy" but impact resistance, or something. However, very nice video!!
How about immersing the parts in a water bath and then heating them? This would prevent warping since pressure on all faces is equal. However, temperatures are limited to 100°C and below.
It wouldnt prevent warping as much as you might think. During printing the filament is stretched along the X and Y axis, along the Z axis filament is compressed as its squished into place. when you anneal parts to the glass temperature it wants to reverse this stretching and compressing. this relieves internal stresses and thus makes it stronger.
It would be interesting to see the strength tests with different printing orientations of the parts. Sometimes I am using TPU with a high Shore to have strong parts without annealing.
Very formal video. Like "let's do scientific and smart looking video". Lot of expensive equipment, lot of samples, but results is not unique and viewer left with tons of questions. Examples: Why you used so big temperature steps? Why you used same temperature for different materials? OK, you got annealed part with same dimensions - is sides flat enough? What temperature and why you used for annealing? How many percents it is stronger? And so on...
thanks for doing these tests, but there is another problem that i have encountered that warrents investigation, and that is elastic range, eg you make a ring to clamp onto a steel part, needs tension before it grips, but the material breaks when cooled because the thermal expansion rate of the plastic is a lot lower, and shrinks and puts itself in tension into a non elastic range and even beyond its plastic range at lower temperatures, this has happened to me in a lot of pla parts, even with zero inital tension(achived with adhesive fill). thanks
So if you anneal PLA with 110°C, PLA will be form stable to over 120°C? Did i read this right? Is there a difference if you anneal them for, let's say one hour instead of just a half? Would be interesting to see, if and what impact the annealingtime has on different properties.
Filament winding with epoxy impregnated carbon fiber & laying up carbon fiber reinforcements, then vacuum baking the parts in a PTFE bag in your oven to cure the epoxy & treating the PLA/ PET part as the inner layer "fill" for the composite outer layer / you can build very very strong parts like this with some serious intensity of investing time & materials if you want a strong plastic composite functional part
Currently I'm annealing a very simple phone holder to be placed inside a car. Does anyone have any practical experience how annealed PLA performs in such environment (no direct sunlight, only heat)? I've 3 test parts: untreated, 80°C/0.5h, 100°C/0.5h. The plan is to change when one fails and see the results, but summer is far away, and maybe the whole thing is doomed. :D Any comment appreciated! EDIT: the parts were embedded into flour to help with deformation.
When one completely remelts a PLA 3D-printed part inside an oven (see free spirit 1 and CNC Kitchen videos on this) encased within an enveloppe of plaster or salt, is the resulting molecular structure amorphous or semi-crystalline? Said otherwise, after such an extreme step, is annealing at lower temperatures as a second step still mandatory to give maximum strength and temperature resistance to the part?
Why all the materials where annealing at the same temperature during the same amount of time? Doesn't make sense since every material as different printing temperature
We annealed all materials at a range of different temperatures. Exactly because every material has different glass transition temperature, which we needed to find. If you want to learn more about the topic, check the article linked in the video description, there's even a section "How to choose the right temperature?" ;) - Mikolas
Didn't get how does annealing affects the layer adhesion. As I see you tested the tensile strength along the layers (material strength). Did you try tensile strength in the Z direction?
Good info thanks! From the graphs it looks like PETG annealed at 130C is a sweet spot. The heat deflection test stopped annealing at 110C, just curious. For extra strength I design threaded holes for long bolts to reinforce printed parts. I put them in quickly with a cordless drill so the friction melts, lubricates then glues the bolts in. Bolts have a pitch tolerance but with some melting you get a perfect fit.
@Prusa 3D by Josef Prusa Could the annealing process be performed on the bed of the printer by placing an insulated box over the print plate and setting the bed temp to the relevant temperature. If this were to work it could be very useful in a production environment to have a dual bed printer. When one print is finished move in the other, prewarmed bed and continue printing. The finished print could then have the insulated box placed over it and use the bed warming to anneal the prints before removing them from the bed. It would result in continuous printing and stronger annealed parts... Just recently bought one of you printers, love it and will hopefully be buying alot more shortly.
We tried it and it wasn't as great as we thought it would be. You cannot place the parts directly on the bed, the temperature gradient caused by the warm bad underneath and colder air above will cause the parts to severly warp. So you would need something that doesn't conduct temperature very well, place it on the bed and then place the part on top of it. You would also have to add a small fan to move the air inside the box so it warms evenly. Even with that setup, it will be hard for the air to reach the target temperature, as there's no insulation on the box :/ It might be enough for annealing PLA, for other materials the annealing temp. is too high. -Mikolas
well i have a good project for you guys.. i have printed the rc rancher from 3dset and him have problem with the tansmission output shaft and driving shaft... i want to know how could i have a printed part that could last for more them 4 minutes... i have a prusa mk3s and printed those part with prusament and some tough pla... and it doesn't last more them 4 minutes... annealing would be the answer??? but remember that there is some gear in transmission and those part can t be deform it have to be perfect!! how to fix my problem PLEASE!!!! NEED HELP!!!!
I watched this video a couple if times now, but did i miss the part where you talk about how you heated it and let it cool down (°C/h) and how long it was sitting at the annealing temerature? Or is this less critical with plastics, since they melt so fast?
I haven’t had success with annealing with dimensional PLA parts due to warping - parts curling up (shrinkage would be ok). I was trying 74C for a longer period of time - 2 hours. Perhaps try PETG? Or hotter temps?
Could be caused by uneven heating e.g. oven without air circulation with heating element on top blasting at the part. You could try puting the print in some kidn of a container (glass) which would make the heating more even. - Mikolas
When strength is needed, why not just build your parts to have a coating of epoxy. Thus your printing will act as a scaffold for the epoxies. (Only make sure said epoxies will not melt your parts!) HINT: I use a paint in a thin coat that only slightly melts the ABS, then I am free to coat in epoxy with out worries.. As said paint acts as a shell...
Because the two materials have different properties and will fail. You would need to use a fiber with the epoxy (like carbon fiber sheet). Epoxy alone isnt very strong and will crack when part starts to flex.
@@outkast187 Fibre is a given. Never thought that was needed to be explained. As the Epoxies sold as binder agents have micro fibres within them.. As for carbon fibre you would be using a pure epoxy and many layers. That would make one strong device...
Depending on size of object and how much you pour in. Epoxy resin curing is exothermic reaction and with large volume of resin, it can heat up to 60 degrees Celsius - which is when PLA starts softening.
Epoxy resin became soft at about 80 degree. There are several exotic kind of heat resistant epoxy, but they also need annealing. So it could be solution, but not simple.
Yes, but in a different way. ABS printed in cold enviroment has poor layer adhesion and as a result compromised mechanical properties. This problem is not so big with ASA, but still in both cases the enclosure helps, not to mention the significantly lower warping. - Mikolas
@@fatassbattlecat Not about that, its about the format of the video, the tests conducted and the tools used to get these results (the weight under heat). It's far too similar to be just a coïncidence
I use a wooden board with screws in it as a fixture to fix my parts to avoid warping in key areas eg. relative screw positions etc. works like a charm.
I was just wondering if that'd work. Thanks for commenting this.
I was thinking of machining an aluminum jig for this as well.
I might try this but printing at 100% infill is very wasteful
This is why I love your company you all work on giving the customers the best you can give. Keep up the great work
I think that's it's awesome that you guys did a video about this, Even if CNC kitchen has made a similar video, I think it would be super awesome to see a collaboration video or even a video comparing your resultes and maybe even doing some different kind of materials, the more testing and results the more information everyone can use to there advantage ! I'm glad that you guys also enlighten some more exposure on this subject because I would love to learn more and this video and CNC Kitchen videos has only added to the list of curiosity and questions I have about Annealing !
Wow, that’s one of those things that feels like it should be an obvious process used a lot but I haven’t ever heard of anyone doing it. Good stuff!
Now I understand why you dominate the technical field
To help with the warping, you can stick the model in a bucket with sand and then anneal it. It will take longer but it won't warp out of shape. It will still shrink/expand however.
CNC Kitchen made some great videos to test that.
What would be interesting for ABS and ASA is a slow heat treatment to get into the print core, then an acetone vapor treatment for exterior.
But, that kind of test is only interesting for flat prints :(
Acetone is shown to weaken the structure. So you may end up with a fragile object and a lot of work.
I love how scientific this video is
Poor Stefan, he's got scary competition now.
😱
Stefan is a great friend of ours :)
- Mikolas
@@CNCKitchen =D
I like better cnc kitchen
Welcome to CNC Kitchen.
I love both of your work, annealing is not so easy to do, having comparison curves like yours is very useful. Thanks a lot friends.
Prusa Annealing Oven when?
If you get it as a kit, price discounted vs buying fully assembled // lol
Also functions to melt failed prints so they could be recycled
Thanks! My kit mk3s works fine, you and your crew did a great job on the printer! Would love to see the print farm in action one day ;) Good luck with future designs!
According to tests results of dimension change on annealing, It would be nice to have corresponding presets/options in prusa slicer...
The dimension change is not constant with temperature but rather changes with each model. So ideally, you would print a model, anneal it, meassure, re-scale, print again and anneal again.
- Mikolas
@@Prusa3D I see, thank's anyway.... just... was looking for more comfort... ;)
@@Prusa3D Well, some complex math + ability for the user to input the warp coeff. and potentially you could apply a reverse transform to the model (while slicing). Non-linear, of course, not just scale. Cheers!
Did you consider annealing the part in sand to prevent or decrease deformation?
Solid suggestion
CNC kitchen did anneal benchy burrowed in sand and it didn’t seem to help much:
th-cam.com/video/dOzVuoBP9gY/w-d-xo.html
- Mikolas
Formfutura Volcano pla works like a charm
I've annealed a few prints in Proto Pasta carbon fiber high temp PLA, and I had little to no shrinkage. I kept all the supports on as suggested. I was very happy with the outcomes every time.
I’ve tried annealing using a water bath (as heat distribution is more even than in an oven), but the parts I tested with were a lot smaller. Results were somewhat inconclusive, but you can read about my findings here: www.justinmklam.com/posts/2017/06/sous-vide-pla/
I don't know how much it actually inproves the strength, but I have hot air gunned 3d prints on certain aeras I want to bend slightly and it seems to end up stiffer and stronger
Need to try diff PLAs. 800, 850 & 870 PLA resins will give diff results. The 850 and 870 should do best in most
Layer adhesion is my biggest issue.
I tried 100% printing, covering in plaster of Paris, then 'cooking' above the melting temperature. However even 100% 3D printing is not really 100%, so I found that the print would have voids at the top of the 'casting'. However the resulting casting is amazingly strong.
I had the idea of using a spit oven with a mechanism to rotate the casting in 2 axes. This would create a hollow moulding, which would be fine, but somewhat complicated to make, although the rotating mechanism could also be used for rotational moulds.
However I then realised, all I need to do is include spare material at the top of the print to ensure no voids and any excess can be trimmed, like sprues on an injection moulding. Strength is amazing and due to the plaster, dimensions remain accurate. The surface can also be sanded before casting, to create a decent finish too.
I got to see Josef at the 3D printer convention at Bel-Air a while back, and although I didnt get close enough to say hi, We purchased an i3 mk3. Great printer!
That ABS tension test; really different failure mode there. Also, I'll consider annealing some of my prints that have a chance to sit in the car; nifty.
Interesting results. Have you repeated the tests varying the annealing time at each temperature? Each material could soften at a different rate. Some materials might need more time to achieve better results.
- Super - krótko, a sporo przydatnych informacji :)
have a merry christmas & happy New year
Well i learned something new today..good job Josef
I would be very interested to see if annealing these parts helped with layer adhesion or strength across layer lines!
I played around with soak PLA parts in 90°C water. They still deformed but they did seem a bit stronger.
Astm test samples make me so happy
PLA is semi crystalline, and increases crystallinity with annealing. You can observe that if you anneal transparent PLA, and thereby reduces transparency. That is also why the HDT increases substantially for PLA, as it lowers the amorphous-to-crystalline ratio, and the amorphous phase softens first. It is also no rule that crystalline structures are weaker or has less fracture toughness. And lastly in this stupidly long comment: the effect you are observing is not only about increased or decreased crystallinity, but a combination of various factors as reduced manufacturing strain, more molecules crossing the filament boundaries, reduced void sizes, reduced sharpness of the notches in the voids, changes in specimen geometry ++++.
And of course, if you remelt the specimen, as done with the last, highly deformed PLA-specimen, the amorphous phase ratio increases again.
Great video as always
Thanks for sharing👍😀
I have tried annealing, and I still haven't found a viable use case. The main problem is that the shrinkage tends to trigger something akin to buckling instabilities, which causes straight walls to morph into curved walls. The shrinkage caused by annealing generally can't be correct just by adjusting some XYZ percentages. I presume the footage at 1:10 is exegerated, but it illustrates the issue: the parts don't merely shrink, they curve every which way in unpredictable and uncontrollable ways.
what do you use as an annealing surface? I have a PID controlled toaster oven and tried to anneal polymax pc at 100c after autotuning it. I put the test object on the metal cooking surface that came with the oven and it melted! 100c isnt even supposed to deform polymax PC so this means the surface heated it up more than the ambient air in the oven.
We used a circulating air oven. The toaster oven might be the culprit, as the heating wires typically reach a higher temperature to achieve browning of the food. Covering the print with a lid might help with this. -Mikolas
I've reprinted my MK3S extruder parts in ProtoPasta's HTPLA-CF (carbon fiber filled). Their published printing correction scaling is to print with x/y at 100.6% and z at 99%. After annealing, the parts seemed nearly identical to the Prusa printed originals. (I didn't put calipers on them though.) I didn't remove the parts from the print bed before annealing, so I don't know if that helped or hurt. I also didn't have any fitment issues when assembling the annealed parts. If anything I think the filament sensor might work a little better because the hard surfaces of the annealed parts slide against each other better than the Prusa printed PETG parts reducing the friction. One downside of the parts being harder is the heatsink rotates a little easier. I'll see if that is much of an issue after a few nozzle swaps, though the heater and thermistor cables do help constrain the rotation of the heater block.
I can’t wait for my mini can you do more videos on the mini?
No, Prusa recently released an official statement on their website indicating that they will not be making anymore content discussing, explaining or mentioning the Mini in any way, shape or form. Instead, they will be opting for documentation in the form of text only available for print in braille. Sorry dude :/
@@AthanCondax is it because it's not reliable like the mk3s?
I've been studying your graphs about shrinkage XYZ, but the percent shrinkage was not given numerically, and impossible to determine from the graphs. Can these values please be provided along with the Filament Brand used (otherwise we all have to duplicate your work for all intents). Thanks in advance, and neat project!
I've heard that annealing prints by dipping them in boiling water for 5 or so minutes causes less deformation than heating the parts in an oven.
Thank you for the video. The numbers of the impact tests seem wrong by the factor of 10, though. I think a unit error occured when you calculated the resistance. The titel on the y-axis should also not be "energy" but impact resistance, or something. However, very nice video!!
How about immersing the parts in a water bath and then heating them? This would prevent warping since pressure on all faces is equal.
However, temperatures are limited to 100°C and below.
It wouldnt prevent warping as much as you might think.
During printing the filament is stretched along the X and Y axis, along the Z axis filament is compressed as its squished into place.
when you anneal parts to the glass temperature it wants to reverse this stretching and compressing. this relieves internal stresses and thus makes it stronger.
@@awellner3285 I see, thanks for the info!
I actually wrote a blog post about annealing using a water bath! You can read more about it here: www.justinmklam.com/posts/2017/06/sous-vide-pla/
Maybe put some supports in and anneal with them in place? That might help fight shrinkage.
It would be interesting to see the strength tests with different printing orientations of the parts. Sometimes I am using TPU with a high Shore to have strong parts without annealing.
Very formal video. Like "let's do scientific and smart looking video". Lot of expensive equipment, lot of samples, but results is not unique and viewer left with tons of questions. Examples: Why you used so big temperature steps? Why you used same temperature for different materials? OK, you got annealed part with same dimensions - is sides flat enough? What temperature and why you used for annealing? How many percents it is stronger? And so on...
You can get more answers in blog post.
Annealing in sand bath or by dropping into hot water in order to reduce warpage of complex models? Investigate!
CNC kitchen did anneal benchy burrowed in sand and it didn’t seem to help much:
th-cam.com/video/dOzVuoBP9gY/w-d-xo.html
- Mikolas
thanks for doing these tests, but there is another problem that i have encountered that warrents investigation, and that is elastic range, eg you make a ring to clamp onto a steel part, needs tension before it grips, but the material breaks when cooled because the thermal expansion rate of the plastic is a lot lower, and shrinks and puts itself in tension into a non elastic range and even beyond its plastic range at lower temperatures, this has happened to me in a lot of pla parts, even with zero inital tension(achived with adhesive fill). thanks
If it’s 100% Infill it will already be strong enough for anything I’m using it for
So if you anneal PLA with 110°C, PLA will be form stable to over 120°C? Did i read this right?
Is there a difference if you anneal them for, let's say one hour instead of just a half? Would be interesting to see, if and what impact the annealingtime has on different properties.
Nice video Jo! Soon becoming a prusalab member here :)
Interesting. I wonder how this would effect flat, 3d-printed plates.
Filament winding with epoxy impregnated carbon fiber & laying up carbon fiber reinforcements, then vacuum baking the parts in a PTFE bag in your oven to cure the epoxy & treating the PLA/ PET part as the inner layer "fill" for the composite outer layer / you can build very very strong parts like this with some serious intensity of investing time & materials if you want a strong plastic composite functional part
Nice!
is it possible to try annealing without 100% infill?
Is annealing on the printer bed at the end of the print - e.g. with a cover of cardboard or a printed one - an option?
Currently I'm annealing a very simple phone holder to be placed inside a car. Does anyone have any practical experience how annealed PLA performs in such environment (no direct sunlight, only heat)?
I've 3 test parts: untreated, 80°C/0.5h, 100°C/0.5h. The plan is to change when one fails and see the results, but summer is far away, and maybe the whole thing is doomed. :D
Any comment appreciated!
EDIT: the parts were embedded into flour to help with deformation.
When one completely remelts a PLA 3D-printed part inside an oven (see free spirit 1 and CNC Kitchen videos on this) encased within an enveloppe of plaster or salt, is the resulting molecular structure amorphous or semi-crystalline?
Said otherwise, after such an extreme step, is annealing at lower temperatures as a second step still mandatory to give maximum strength and temperature resistance to the part?
Why all the materials where annealing at the same temperature during the same amount of time? Doesn't make sense since every material as different printing temperature
We annealed all materials at a range of different temperatures. Exactly because every material has different glass transition temperature, which we needed to find.
If you want to learn more about the topic, check the article linked in the video description, there's even a section "How to choose the right temperature?" ;)
- Mikolas
Didn't get how does annealing affects the layer adhesion. As I see you tested the tensile strength along the layers (material strength). Did you try tensile strength in the Z direction?
I maybe missed the informations but... How long did you cooked the parts ?
So does petg have less layer lines when annealing?it didnt seem like it did
Good info thanks! From the graphs it looks like PETG annealed at 130C is a sweet spot. The heat deflection test stopped annealing at 110C, just curious. For extra strength I design threaded holes for long bolts to reinforce printed parts. I put them in quickly with a cordless drill so the friction melts, lubricates then glues the bolts in. Bolts have a pitch tolerance but with some melting you get a perfect fit.
The better way is use heat set inserts. Then your insert is melted in and you get perfect threads that hold more. Ive tried both methods.
Nice video. Will you please send me info on the test equipment used?
@Prusa 3D by Josef Prusa
Could the annealing process be performed on the bed of the printer by placing an insulated box over the print plate and setting the bed temp to the relevant temperature. If this were to work it could be very useful in a production environment to have a dual bed printer. When one print is finished move in the other, prewarmed bed and continue printing. The finished print could then have the insulated box placed over it and use the bed warming to anneal the prints before removing them from the bed. It would result in continuous printing and stronger annealed parts... Just recently bought one of you printers, love it and will hopefully be buying alot more shortly.
We tried it and it wasn't as great as we thought it would be. You cannot place the parts directly on the bed, the temperature gradient caused by the warm bad underneath and colder air above will cause the parts to severly warp. So you would need something that doesn't conduct temperature very well, place it on the bed and then place the part on top of it. You would also have to add a small fan to move the air inside the box so it warms evenly. Even with that setup, it will be hard for the air to reach the target temperature, as there's no insulation on the box :/ It might be enough for annealing PLA, for other materials the annealing temp. is too high.
-Mikolas
I guess if you want a strong PLA, make sure to use tension and deflection to prevent compression?? I guess?
I've used boiling water in the past. I feel it helps with the deformation.
I just use a lighter over a print and it smooths it out and makes it glossy
well i have a good project for you guys.. i have printed the rc rancher from 3dset and him have problem with the tansmission output shaft and driving shaft... i want to know how could i have a printed part that could last for more them 4 minutes... i have a prusa mk3s and printed those part with prusament and some tough pla... and it doesn't last more them 4 minutes... annealing would be the answer??? but remember that there is some gear in transmission and those part can t be deform it have to be perfect!! how to fix my problem PLEASE!!!! NEED HELP!!!!
Great video, wow thanks for it
Now I know why the minis are shipping late ;)
Dobrý den, chtěl bych se zeptat, kdy asi dorazí Prusa Mini, kdyz jsem si ji objednal v říjnu?
I watched this video a couple if times now, but did i miss the part where you talk about how you heated it and let it cool down (°C/h) and how long it was sitting at the annealing temerature?
Or is this less critical with plastics, since they melt so fast?
Proprietary information...
I have tried it and the distortion outweighs the benefits.
no tests on layer adhesion?
I feel like I am in Stefans cnc kitchen when I watch this video. Which is not a bad thing.
I miss the comparison between unannealed parts.
20 degrees are unannealed.
I haven’t had success with annealing with dimensional PLA parts due to warping - parts curling up (shrinkage would be ok). I was trying 74C for a longer period of time - 2 hours. Perhaps try PETG? Or hotter temps?
Could be caused by uneven heating e.g. oven without air circulation with heating element on top blasting at the part. You could try puting the print in some kidn of a container (glass) which would make the heating more even.
- Mikolas
When strength is needed, why not just build your parts to have a coating of epoxy. Thus your printing will act as a scaffold for the epoxies. (Only make sure said epoxies will not melt your parts!) HINT: I use a paint in a thin coat that only slightly melts the ABS, then I am free to coat in epoxy with out worries.. As said paint acts as a shell...
Because the two materials have different properties and will fail. You would need to use a fiber with the epoxy (like carbon fiber sheet). Epoxy alone isnt very strong and will crack when part starts to flex.
@@outkast187 Fibre is a given. Never thought that was needed to be explained. As the Epoxies sold as binder agents have micro fibres within them..
As for carbon fibre you would be using a pure epoxy and many layers.
That would make one strong device...
With ALL The data you guys generated tou probably could make a crude soft ware that calculates How The print Will be after annealing.
Could parts be reinforced by e.g. filling with epoxy resins?
Interesting concept
Depending on size of object and how much you pour in. Epoxy resin curing is exothermic reaction and with large volume of resin, it can heat up to 60 degrees Celsius - which is when PLA starts softening.
Epoxy resin became soft at about 80 degree. There are several exotic kind of heat resistant epoxy, but they also need annealing. So it could be solution, but not simple.
What temp did you anneal the petg at the end at?
Does the Prusa Printer Enclosure also improve the strength of the printed parts?
Yes, but in a different way. ABS printed in cold enviroment has poor layer adhesion and as a result compromised mechanical properties. This problem is not so big with ASA, but still in both cases the enclosure helps, not to mention the significantly lower warping.
- Mikolas
Did I miss the results for your controls?
I didn’t see them.
20C is control / unannlead
put in hot water, the best way to keep the temperature around 90
Have you printed HTPLA?
Did CNC Kitchen do this video? lol
Cool! But why not just build an enclosed printer?
Also would help with the problem of toxic particles.
Do you have any test done on PEEK?
There's a market for warped printed parts...Who knew?
Very interesting topic, thanks but please avoid these annoying musics...
Stephan (CNC kitchen) in a nutshell, maybe a link to his channel, a collab or so, he should be credited in this video at least
What a bs as if he has invented material science or annealing
@@fatassbattlecat Not about that, its about the format of the video, the tests conducted and the tools used to get these results (the weight under heat). It's far too similar to be just a coïncidence
@@TestTest-pf9qp those are standard tests that have been around for probably decades
Good
Why he is using autotune in normal talking.
Ahww, poor adalinda
2:03
nice stroke m8
Co treba udelat cz video
K videu jsou přiložené CZ titulky
Omg you kill Drago ...
Not practical but interesting