Strong 3D prints through ANNEALING, but... Part 1: PLA
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ค. 2024
- Start your Squarespace free trial today at www.squarespace.com/cnckitchen and use code CNCKITCHEN to get 10% off your first purchase.
Check out the all new CNCKitchen.com (work in progress) !
Everyone, who is into 3D printing has already heard that you can anneal, temper or bake your 3D prints in order to increase strength. There is little data on this topic available, so I tested the influence of annealing on PLA in this video. There will be more videos coming with tests on materials like PETG, ABS or Nylon. I'll be investigating the myth if you can really bake your layers together when you heat treat your 3D prints. Watch and find out more!
💚 Support me 💚
Patreon: / cnckitchen
Join as a TH-cam member!
Original CNC Kitchen Threaded Inserts: geni.us/CNCKInsertsChoice
Merch: teespring.com/stores/cnckitchen
Buy an Original Prusa i3 printer: geni.us/CNCKPrusa
PayPal: www.paypal.me/CNCKitchen
Shop at Matterhackers(US): www.matterhackers.com/?aff=7479
Shop at 3DJake(EU): geni.us/zHvnB
🎙Check out my PODCAST with Tom Sanladerer
/ @themeltzone
🛠Tested Materials
Formfutura Premium PLA: www.formfutura.com/shop/categ...
Formfutura Volcano PLA: www.formfutura.com/shop/categ...
Spoolworks PLA: e3d-online.com/spoolworks-pla
📚Papers and further information
Effects of Annealing Time and Temperature on the
Crystallinity and Heat Resistance Behavior of
Injection-Molded Poly(lactic acid): www.academia.edu/download/516...
rigid.ink/blogs/news/how-to-a...
www.fabbaloo.com/blog/2019/5/...
www.fargo3dprinting.com/annea...
www.justinmklam.com/posts/201...
⚙ My gear (Affiliate Links):
🎥 CAMERAS & LENSES
Panasonic GH5 - Professional 4k60 camera: geni.us/LMN0CmS
Panasonic GX80/GX85 - Great value system camera: geni.us/M2Sm
10-25mm f1.4 - Awesome Lense: geni.us/ZTBH
30mm f2.8 macro - Great Macro Lense: geni.us/vEwqD
12-35mm f2.6 - Great allround lense: geni.us/S9GOsr
14-140mm f3.5-5.6 - My go-to travel lense: geni.us/fSAyKo
25mm f1.4 - Nice prime for photoraphy: geni.us/mqWM
🎙AUDIO
Rode Video Mic Pro - Shotgun mic: geni.us/6JFRdJ
Rode Film Maker Kit - Wireless mic: geni.us/XMD2N
Rode NT-USB - Studio Mic: geni.us/YVONvy
🔴 LIVE STREAMING
Elgatoo Stream Deck: geni.us/ppIiAL
Elgatoo HDMI USB Capture Card: geni.us/imhD
Logitech C920 - Overhead camera: geni.us/ViVgB
🏆 Do you want to help me cover my running costs? Send me a dollar or two over PayPal, it helps me a lot!
www.paypal.me/CNCKitchen
🌼 Even watching the ads before my videos helps me a lot!
Follow me on Twitter: / cnc_kitchen
DISCLAIMER: This video was sponsored by Squarespace. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I have done anealing of PLA, I tried a 3D benchy. The layers fused so well, there were no layer lines to the naked eye. The Benchy was now a perfect PLA puddle.
Congratulations 😉
You had us in the first half, not gonna lie
You just melted the surface. Cut it open and you'll see the layers are still there. There's no way FDM can compete with injection molding unless you're ready to shed $800K for an industrial printer from say Siemens or HP.
@@mururoa7024 The PLA puddle means annealing went horribly wrong. I made no claim or comparing that it was like "injection moulding" at all.
@@mururoa7024 R/woooosh
Hi Sthephan! I was able to get a +300% increase in impact resistance while annealing natural PLA. I tested according to ASTM D4508, for which the sample is smaller. As printed, it broke easily, but after 20min at 95°C they did not even break, using the same pendulum. I will be publishing the results next year at the Brazilian Congress of Manufacturing Engineering (COBEF2023).
are the results available?
link the results plz
Was there any warping?
have you tried petg?
I finally get your you-tube channel name.
But what does his wife say about hijacking the oven?
Court when the print is thin it might I don’t know work with the heatet bet
I don't
@@AnsAnsAns cnc KITCHEN. he uses a kitchen appliance in the video 🤙🏻
Stephan, you are a godsend for the 3d printing community. Thank you for your service
At your service 😉
Don't listen to Skynet! They will be printing Terminators soon!
@@capmilk 😈😈😈
Couldn't agree more. Greetings from Belgium.
I love what you are doing, taking 3D printer to the next level and breaking new ground and dispelling urban myths on 3D printed parts. Thanks and respect.
You're welcome!
I have tried boiling some PLA+ parts (kind of ring shaped) and letting them cool down to 40c in the water. They were thin walled parts, 2mm thick, so 10 minutes boiling was more than enough to change the temperature resistance. As a result the part was still hard at 80c while normal PLA gets rubbery at 50/55. But the same results with deformation and warping. Uneven depending on the axis. I will keep trying with other shapes and failed prints just for fun. I still think that this can be useful in parts that can be printed, annealed and then post proccesed to get the desired dimensions (sanding, drilling, etc. ). Great channel!! I really apreciate your work. Congrats!!
As always, this video was incredibly informative and all the testing was very detailed. You really are an asset to the 3D printing community and I've seen no other channel go into detail in the way you do. Great job man
Hi!
I looked a bit into that subject previously to improve my quadcopter strength. I found that if I disabled cooling and tweeked a bit the temperatures the parts were almost not deformed after the heat treatment. Of course, disabling cooling and the temperatures affect the look and it is not suitable for all parts but if you are only looking for strength it is good and you do not need to compensate for any deformation.
Thanks for the work you do. It is quite interesting and helping. :-)
I'd like to see you test the hook that completely melted and see how it fails compared to the normal vertical hook. Great video always enjoy them thanks.
reacting to your question on 2:20: yes, used volcano pla (formfutura, crimps minimal, reasonnably cheap as I live in Belgium, for usa the shipping must be crazy) like you used on that coffee maker like a year ago (?) printed clotheshangers from that and they are holding up after one year of serious (ab)use : one time I noticed visitors put like 3 wet winter jackets (heavy!) on one hook and it didn't fail. Used your 'making parts stronger info' vid and did print them with 5 perimeters instead of high infill. clearly worked, thanx for all the research Stephan!!
You should have called this episode "Make 'em, Bake 'em, and Break 'em."
Thank you very much for this information! I was looking everywhere for a plastic that can stand both about 100ºC and some steam pressure. I´ll try now with PLA, PET and HIPS and annealing them. You helped me a lot!
Great video. Another property that would be interesting to test is the creep resistance. I have had several PLA part fail over time under constant load (preloaded assembly for example). I guess that increase in crystalinity could reduce the creep rate. For the load, you could compare several heat treatments at 70% to 80% of ultimate strength for example.
I love your videos! you are truly an asset to the 3D-printing community :) I look forward to all of your future videos!
man your videos are so informative... deftly got me hooked
Thanks for the enlightenment.
Explaining a complex matter in an easy to comprehend format is no easy undertaking.
Regards Tony
Great job Steffan! I have a presentation coming up that I'll be sure to plug your channel during :) looking forward to the next video. Definitely doesn't seem worth it with this material considering the warping the time would be better spent optimising design and print settings. I'll definitely continue to push people towards PETG for heat resistance and durability.
I just ran into these videos. I love them! I thought I would comment on two things. The first is that I have never seen a DIY notched impact machine before. Brilliant. The second is that you could also print a little finger (similar to the max travel on the imact tester) for your finger torque wrench to record the max there as well.
Love your channel, such a great reference for research and knowledge
Your work is really done well. Please continue.
Nylon will appear to be quite stiff and strong fresh from the oven. But take care, as the print adsorbs moisture from the air, the mechanical properties of the nylon change and it becomes more flexible and less stiff. Some people take the initial stiffness to indicate that Nylon can be stiffened from heat treatment, but they fail to acknowledge the temporary nature of it.
Annealing Polymaker's PC-Max blend will be fine, but to anneal real, pure PC prints you need a precision temperature controlled oven. We're talking being able to control temps to a 10c rise over the course of an hour sort of thing. Without such control, you might as well not bother annealing pure PC as it won't be beneficial. Of course, it's better to just print PC in a 120c chamber to begin with so there's not any printed in stresses resulting from the part cooling too fast, but most people don't have setups capable of that.
There are different results changing the infill density. 10%, 50% and 99% behave differently, especially regarding the type of deformation (uniform in X and Y). Z shrinks less, meaning that there is not a big layer fusion. Also, the deformation depends of the infill pattern used.
A ventilated oven usually distributes the temperature more evenly.
I'm not sure of the benefits of the slowdown temperature because in any case the skin remane cooler than the interior, and the process of loosing energy depends mostly from the geometry of the part, creating deformations.
I'm testing the results using the microwave oven...
I just tried annealing Proto-pasta PLA in sand and had great results. I put the parts in a glass baking dish, covered in 70 mesh high purity silica sand and left a probe in the center of the sand/glass plate setup. I used a convection oven. It took about an hour to reach 100C in the middle; I held it for 10 and then turned the oven off and left everything in there to cool. I was pleased with dimensional stability of my parts.
Thank you for putting the time and effort in making those great videos. I really appreciate your scientific approach to 3d printing.
First learning about Volcano PLA from Form Futura, going to test out their 50 gram to see how it goes before picking up a large spool. Thanks for sharing your research!
Great video as always
Thanks for sharing👍😀
Thanks for this video!
I followed your instructions and tried annealing mechanical parts printed with eSun PLA+ (in my kitchen oven).
I got some minor deformations, but I was able to Dremel them and use the part.
They definitely feel stronger, but I can't measure how much really..
So damn informative. You save me and the community soooo much time. Thank you.
Weird thing I've seen in doing some annealing tests of my own is that two different brands of PLA shrunk and expanded in different directions. Both test parts were printed in same orientation and annealed in same orientation as well. Still one of them expanded in X direction and shrunk in Z and the other one did the usual shrinking in X and Y and expanded in Z.
Such systematic testing, thank you so much.
I wonder if using a heated build chamber would make a difference in layer adhesion?
good question, I would like to know the answer too
Yes it does. i get up to 100% adhesion in the Z compared to the xy
Yeah it does, same with lowering the fan speed
Keeping the print warm definitely helps with layer adhesion, same with slower printing speed (really slow) and slower cooling fan or just turned off. Which has me investigating how to turn off the cooling fan for internal fill, so that the fan only turns on for the shell.
Furthermore, so the fan only turns on at a certain level of degree and ceiling layers. So that when you print vertical walls there's no cooling fan, but once you reach let's say 75 degrees it starts to kick in or ramp up for the outer shell if its printing outwards or the inner layer if its printing inwards. Might have to write my own code, haven't done that in a while lol.
@@MrHeHim you don't need the fan for pla but it does help with bridging and you should be able to enable it just for bridging easy enough.
I hope you cover HTPLA and PLA+
That was a great idea to use sand. I've used hot sand to bend PVC pipes without kinking for costume projects. It makes the heating more even and also prevents the PVC pipe from collapsing in on itself. I hope you continue to experiment using the sand technique and try the larger container to be thorough to see if that helps any. You also might want to try heating the sand first before pouring it in to see what affect it might have.
i work in a plastic lab and i do this all day ^^ :-D you test good !
Nice Work Dude!
I have annieled some pla mic adapters immersed in 75c water for 30 mins. Old coffee maker as a bath, since it has 75c thermostat. Parts in ziplock bag with an aluminium plate ensuring parts flatness and old Shure mic body ensuring tight fit after annealing. Works fine and heat transfer is uniform if you get all the air out of the bag. You really should test this.
Alltho better way might be a Sous Vide cooker and real vacuum bags.
Keep up the good work!
this is useful... reducing translucency helps a lot... i am making some key chains and i really did not like the translucency... this could make it look a loot better! awesome and very helpful!
Great video as always 👍. I have tried annealing high temperature PLA and found it to have a positive effect. I don't have your test setup but did a simple bend test by hand and found the annealed piece it to be a bit stronger. I did get some warping when I annealed at 100C but none when I used 85C. I had the best results (no warping) when I let the part warm up slowly with the oven rather than putting it into the oven after it was warm. I also let it cool down slowly after an hour of annealing.
Supposedly the HTPLA also gets better impact resistens after annealing. It would be great if you could test HTPLA to get some real data on it.
Keep up the good work 😀
What brand of HTPLA?
@@japonicaren I have used the Proto Pasta HTPLA V2 and the HTPLA Carbon fiber. I really like the CF for functional parts that need to be strong and it prints great.
Nice testing as always. I have wondered about a infra red heat lamp is use during printing as I did it before to reduce warping but it keeping the previous layer warmer may help with layer adhesion
Awesome as always,!!! I do hope you try HT PLA’ s generally made from a raw 850 or 870 resin. These PLA’s are higher temp and generally take to annealing much better than the standard cheaper PLA resins most filaments are made from!
I'd love to see tests with 870.
There are some factors in the heating and cooling. Since heat rises, the top of the part is the last part to cool, thus why you see different expansions in z versus x and y. If you could somehow put the parts in a 3D rotisserie as they go through the process, you should see a more uniform change in size. In large turbines, this is why they have to keep turning during cool down or they bow “upwards”.
Thanks for this! I always wondered if it would help the layer adhesion, a bit of a bummer it's not. I think we would need a printer that would be able to rotate a piece while printing and have a layers added horizontally on top of vertical ones... But I cannot think how a machine like this could work!
I did many parts in two sub parts, one printed horizontally and the other vertically and glued together after to augment the resistance, works well, but more work in design and built
Interesting investigation as usual... I really adore the way you apply scientific method to your investigations. Keep up the good work.
I wonder if the layer adhesion quality is related to the hot plastic being reactive to humidity or oxygen in the air, or perhaps some air is trapped at the interface between layers reducing the effective connection between them. Is it possible for you to make an investigation about that idea? [3D printing in a vacuum, different pressure levels or in an inert atmosphere]
Thank you for the sensational content!
Great info, thank you! I really appreciate the effort! Do you know if this also applies to printing with higher ambient temperature e.g. using a shroud? :)
Hi Stefan!
Great channel with tons of educational material. I am interested to increase part strength. Was wondering if epoxy coating will help. Or even wrap monofilament around the parts and then epoxy coat.
Thank you
Great video, thanks for the upload. In case you try it with ABS, I just finished a test myself. I think Thomas did something similar but he chose around 105°C for the annealing temperature for both PLA&ABS. I just did the annealing of ABS at 140°C. The reason being, that PLA has a glas transition temp (TG) of 60-65°C and ABS at 105°C. I've seen that the annealing of PLA works at around 100°C, so 40°C above its TG. Therefore ABS has to be annealed at around 145°C. My Part shrank but the geometry remained ok. All the best with your experiments!
Edit: sorry it wasn't Thomas video with the ABS, it was your video as well. It's name was temperature resistance after annealing and you inserted the parts at 110°C (PLA,PETG,ABS). I would suggest setting the temperature 40°C above the TG of the material being annealed.
Such a high annealing temperature is not possible for parts should be accurate in dimensions.
ABS is a material of interest for me as well.
I recently tried drilling small holes on opposite side of my print. With about 20% infill I then used a syringe to push epoxy and silicone glue through two different parts. I used a transparent filament with about 2 or 3 walls. It drastically changed the feel of the parts.
You should try testing some hooks that have epoxy or silicone in them. My only problem is that the epoxy got pretty hot.
Use epoxy which cures slowly (as opposed to regular epoxy). This way you generate the same amount of heat during chemical reaction but you have much longer time to dissipate it, therefore the max. temerature stays way lover.
lover = lower
Oh that's so awesome I just got into 3D printing, had some parts that needed extra rigidity, and was thinking of the exact same thing! cylindrical voids running the length of the print injected with something, or geometry resembling lightening cuts in the appropriate orientation filled with JB weld.
I've annealed PLA (plain and modified) by dunking the prints into boiling water for 5 minutes, then quenching with cold water (not my original idea, saw it in a youtube vid somewhere). I mainly do it for the improved temperature resistance, but that is almost always with functional, mechanical parts that need to fit with other parts, so warping is not acceptable. I've found the boiling water method produces almost no warping at all, other than the predictable shrinkage in x and y, and growth in z. The shrinkage is predictable enough to compensate for in the slicer. I've printed a fan duct that works fine on the MK2S, a few mm from the heaterblock, printing high temperature materials, so the heat resistance is good with this approach. It's also way quicker and easier than annealing in an oven. My process is to put the part into a mug or similar and pour boiling water over it, tumble the part to get rid of trapped air bubbles, then pour in cold water after 5 minutes. Once the part dries it's ready to use.
Thanks for the video! Very interesting.
Two things you may want to investigate in the future for annealing of PLA:
(1) Some manufacturers make PLA that is specifically designed to be annealed. My understanding is that these types of PLA have solid particles included in the PLA that are supposed to help "seed" the microcrystalization process.
(2) I think there was speculation that PLA with pigments (colored solid particles) would more easily crystalize than PLA with dyes (colored chemical dissolved in the PLA as a solution; no particles).
If you have time, I would be really interested to see you perform similar tests on, say, white-opaque PLA (which very likely has pigments like titanium dioxide, zinc oxide, etc.) as well as PLA that is specifically designed to be annealed.
I have no idea if there would be any difference in results. There are numerous academic papers on annealing PLA and PLA crystallinity. It would be interesting to see if your results are roughly the same as theirs. They studied things like annealing times and temperatures (crystallinity vs time at a given temperature), mechanical properties, and microstructure.
Have not used this before but will definitely do that for parts that are likely to experience raised temps dooring life.
Have you considered using an oil bath (maybe with a sous vide) to maintain more consistent annealing temps? Might help with warping.
Looking forward to the stress relief video.
Boiling Water Annealing. I made a 5 inch screen shroud for a backup camera installation on my wifes car about x170mm y130mm z130mm from pla and covered it with fake leather upholstery !
So in about 5 days it just melted and annealed rock hard on the dash under the sun. I then reprinted compensating about +5% on x and y and -4% on z axis. I then annealed in a pot on the stove with BOILING WATER for 35-40 minutes and let cool. Short story, The thing is now on the dash over 6 months under the Greek sun (60-70 degrees on the front dash) and it has not deformed in any way, I did make a few small 100mm x10mm x5mm test print strips before with the 100mm test print on each axis. I suppose the boil anneal process keeps preasure on all surfaces the same for minimal deforming. I dont know about strength of prints but temperature resistance increase for prints is about 30-40%.
Parts annealed in boiling water have to be secured and not dance around or some deformation may occur .
Thanks for all the great tests you do for us.
Heres a tip for using a home oven vs a professional rig...
Your home oven has a 25°F swing in each direction, because of how it samples and corrects temp changes... use a foil "tent" or keep your pieces on a cookie sheet with another cookie sheet on top to act as a heat sink/thermal regulator.
I heat treat steels in my home oven. It also helps to keep a second thermo inside of the oven. I keep 2, one sampling the heat in the oven, and one inside of the cookie sheets.
You need to stabilize temps on product to yield ANY scientific results worth anything.
If you need more tips, lmk. I know how to mod an open door toaster into a great heat treat oven.
I’m here because the 3D printing nerd suggested that I check your channel out. I’m glad I did and I subscribed.
I believe the pla+ and some HTPLA's are better equipped to do this with, as they are supposed to warp less during the annealing process, like how you found that the volcano one warped less then the crystal blue. Makergeeks used to sell a "raptor" line pla that was like $15 extra that was supposedly made to be annealed. I have several spools of it, but have only tried it once with putting a part in some boiling water for 10 or so min. It was a dragon print and the wings kinda ended up sagging down a bit, but after it went soft, it hardened back up in like 4-5 seconds and you couldn't get it to be pliable anymore. I ended up snapping the wings off trying to get them back lined up..
Interesting!
I would love to see other materials- ABS, PETG, PC. I do a lot of structural 3d printing for my robotics team in ABS, and anisotropic layers are always a serious problem for us.
I love this channel for its approach to materials testing, and am always excited to see what new scientifically rigorous information you have for us.
He did comment that PETG and ABS don't have the same amorphous to crystalline change, so it'll be interesting to see what changes they go through if he follows up using those plastics.
Real engineering channel. Love it.
please try this with Esun PLA+ , in my experience it performs better than standard PLA when annealing.
I use eSun filament as it is a great affordable filament. Have also had some great results with Hobby King own brand filament too.
Ian Dawkins
The more expensive HobbyKing stuff is made by MCPP: www.mcpp-3dp.com
The engineering PLA - ‘PLA-X3’ - is very good but a little pricey. It has very good annealing behaviour.
Thanks that is useful information.
Top quality videos as always
You tried sand but I was wondering how well something that sets like plaster might work? You cast a part, heat treat then wash away the plaster. It sounds like a ton of work but might be worth investigating
I was wondering also with plaster... when it has hardened, and assuming that the part is completely filled, could the part then me heated to much higher temperature to completely melt the PLA and sort of have a 'cast PLA' part ?
Using plaster is an interesting idea, but if you're going to all that trouble, then just do an investment casting. Once the part is covered in plaster, you can bake the filament out and cast metal inside. Takes some planning to cast properly, but you get much better parts.
I like the idea. I also wonder if we could fill the prints with something like epoxy, plaster.. Low gyroid infill and something that fills the holes.
The amount of effort required to make sure the plaster gets into every single nook and cranny, and then taken out when done, would not be worth the 10% gains while maintaining the same dimensions, if it even works. Instead of going to all that hassle, just use something 10% better from the start, it'll be cheaper in the long run too
@@chomp7927 I thought of leaving it. Something with strong ad/cohesion I have only experience with loca glue, maybe something that cures of time
I tried to anneal a Hero Me duct by using an electric water heating pot, which has buttons to reach and maintain several different temperatures. (I love it for making tea.) My parts were put inside a plastic ziplock bag. The water was preheated before I put the parts in. I had read an article on what temperature was best to use and used that. After half an hour in the water, they were too warped to use. At that point I decided I had to get new PTFE tubing and some PETG filament if I wanted a duct that would hold up to long term use. I am assuming that to maintain the temperature, while heating, some of the water got too hot.
Haven't watched the video yet but may learn how to do it in a way that will keep PLA from deforming.
Good video. I was going to try this at one point. I now know better.
Thanks
This was very insightfull and learned alot.
I was wondering if this annealing process if it followed, a reflow soldering temerature curve where you heat the parts to a specific temp for a certain time that every object can reach that temp then ramp up the temp for short period then decrease the temp slowly.
Probally achieve the same results.....
Or will it?
You should have a go at hot isostatic pressing of some parts. It's commonly done for high integrity castings, powder metallurgy, metal injection moulded parts. Would be interesting to see how it might work.
the expansion in one direction (generally) is caused by the oven heating up all the trapped air bubbles in the material and stretching it.
I use quick passes with blow torch on parts with mechanical strength requirements. This gets the surface layers annealed, and sometimes even melting without distorting the whole part.
Interesting Video, I thought it would made some advantage for layer adhesion.
one technique i've been trying is to make a silicone mold of a printed part, and take ground up PLA remnants (supports, rafts, failed prints) melt them till it's almost clay-like in it's consistency, and then press it into the mold. you essentially get a 100% solid model. that being said, i've never tried anything to measure tensile strength of these PLA casts, but i would love to see how that would compare if you were to try it!
I love your scientific method of testing.
I have used a heat gun to remove "wisps" that sometimes appear, and if used VERY carefully, it can slightly smooth layer lines without warping the shape. It isn't consistent, however, and easy to mess up.
hey i have been using methylene chloride to make pneumatic fittings take pressures of 150 psi and other water tight parts and fuzzes layers well.
Hi. I swear by the. Using 3D fillies pla plus. 100 c for 30 min. Raises its temperature stability to over 100c. For parts that may get hot in a car it’s a must. Shrinkage is only 1.5 pct xy and expands 1 pct z. I don’t use a cool down step. Whip out of oven while hot and then clamp them down on a cold metal surface. Also have some wooden jigs to hold the critical dimensions in place during ht. All this adds up to quality stable parts that look great and take the very hot Australian sun. Strength is also much better. I have tried this on several pla brands and not all respond the same. Stephan. You should do these tests on ht pla or pla plus. People will be put off based on this video. It’s never a blobby disaster for me with ht. Just get the right material.
I just brought some Proto Pasta HTPLA V3 that is supposed to be designed for this very thing. so might be worth a test. I plan to try this using my reflow oven.
I absolutely love PLA, it's sturdy, tough, pretty abrasion ressistent, comes in a gazillion of colours, is cheap, stupid easy to print, almost impossible to ignite, doesn't need any mods for your printer and doesn't release nasty fumes while printing.
The only real downside really is its low temperature it can ressist against deforming.
If you could bring the point where it looses form stability up to 80°C, 90°C or even around 100°C with annealing, it would be pretty much the perfect allround filament from which you even can print car interior parts without the worry of warping like crazy.
"doesn't release nasty fumes while printing" - false. Be careful with that. It's a common misconception that PLA printing is totally safe. Some people are even printing in their bedrooms overnight. Shocking. You don't want to be breathing this stuff in. It's not as bad as ABS but it still releases harmful fumes and clouds of micro plastics. There are studies showing this. And long term effects are unknown.
Would love to see part 2.
YES! Really filament dependent. But better heat resistance, better strength. However, I had some warping as well. I found Z elongation, with XY shrinkage. I found other materials also like some annealing. PETG, ABS. Nylon does not seem to care.
I'd like to see you do a video for this on UV Printing.
This is some great information that you have provided and seeing is believing. Have you looked at the possibility of 100% fill then used that print in sand at lower temp with longer bake time?
Please try annealing parts immersed in common household oils, castor, canola/rapeseed or vegetable oils in particular. Its would be interesting to see the different effects that each oil had (if any) due to chemical compatibility and the duration and temperature of the annealing process. If you use the gyroid infill pattern and had drain/fill holes in the part where it wouldn't affect strength then, as its a "porous", the oil could evenly contact all of the material evenly, reducing warping, and as it would allow the parts to be brought up to temperature evenly it should more throughly and evenly annealing the part. I'd suggest a process of annealing at 45c, 60c and ~75c for 20, 40 and 60 minutes. That would be a 3x3 matrix of results. Ideally one such test for each oil type. I think this is the most complete process that could be done in the home environment.
Thanks for this video, you've persuaded me not to bother annealing PLA, which has inevitably saved me a load of time and money
Hi Stefan, thanks for taking the time to educate the larger 3D printing community. It's been bugging me a bit but I think the phenomenon of the annealed prints becoming less amorphous may not be correct. I suspect it's a bit more complex than that. I can't say I know the real answer but a typical thermoplastic should become more amorphous when heated above it's glass transition as the stresses that the printing has applied are relieved somewhat so that the polymers individual strings can go back to a relaxed state which is why we see some XY decreases and Z increases in size. Could the print lines be lensing the light? Maybe there's a polymer chemist here that can put me in my place :)
Thanks for the video!
I have used PLA in my car. Initially PLA was softened by sun heated ambient the first time it was exposed. The next day and other days that were hotter it did not soften again.
I live in Queensland...so I had something more akin to a blob after the first day.
Nice topic ;) annealing is important for ABS, Polycarbonat and also also materials with carbon or glass fibre ...
Oh, you're already on track to investigate inter-layer adhesion. Not looking like there is any particular advantage to heating for adhesion.
What is really interesting is the smaller warppage when you stress-relieve first... that could prove useful.
You might try burying the part in sand, then vibrating to settle the particulates, then compressing them with a lid/clamp. Locking the grains together might help minimize the possibility of the warping part displacing sand only held in place by gravity. It might also crush the part a little.... would have to test it.
Don't know if anything changed from then to now or if it is just the PLA brand I used. But my eSun black PLA+ became indestructible after doing rudimentary annealing. Really, I'd use it as bullet proof vest. The flat playing card like surface object I printed has around 2mm of thickness. My precious PETG print of the same part would make crackling sounds just by applying slight pressure on the sides. Unannealed would just break very easily.
Not after taking going to the sauna. First thing I noticed is that the layers seem to have fused and surfaces looked like solid paint. And no matter how hard I tried to bend it. It just refused to make any level of deformation. Fel like bending metal .
I mainly anneal PLA for heat resistance. It makes a huge difference! Could you try to test the strength of HD PLA from fiberlogy? It is meant to be annealed.
I would love to see layer adhesion tests for prints that are more solid, you could be running into the limitation of the amount of material before you're seeing the results of annealing.
Increasing fill to 90-100% would usually yield a stronger part as it is when printing slowly enough. So perhaps annealing a solid part would give the layers a better chance at sticking together :)
Would definitely like to see a video about heat treating PLA with an eye to minimizing warp and increasing heat resistance. My wife loves being able to print dangly earrings, but has had problems with them warping when left in a vehicle.
Sun shield, white car and solar cells to maintain air con in tge car
I would have been interested in finding out what the tests said against the hook that really melted.
That one would really have merged the layers. So perhaps you should consider testing it anyway.
@_ David _ the surface area at the breaking point would be similar sizes, so it would be very comparable.
@_ David _
Yes.
I appreciate that.
It's more out of pure intrigue than anything else.
If results are noticeably stronger.
Then maybe an experiment with 100% infil with the piece placed in a mould in the oven to keep its overall shape and dimensions.
I appreciate that this then more or less turns the part into an injection moulded part.
But as I said.
Just intrigued, that's all.
I work in a glass factory, and toughen/temper glass daily.
The glass goes into the furnace, which consists of ceramic rollers running back and forth through the oven at 690-725 degrees celcius, depending on thickness. What is interesting to note is that glass SLUMPING, which is where glass is melted over a material to imprint shapes or designs into it, happen at about 650 degrees celcius. We temper at a higher temperature because it is in the oven for a much shorter time, and is quickly quenched and cooled afterwards to introduce stress in the crystalline structure and leave us with tempered glass.
Things to note:
The glass we put in is always a flat sheet, so deformation is minimal
The glass warps upwards in the oven. As the edges heat up much quicker than the center, they lift up, and once the center heats up to a similar temperature, they lower back down (but this leaves the glass slightly warped). It can be counteracted by having air of varying intensity blown onto the glass while it heats.
Rounded corners are much easier to work with since the stresses are less localised.
Any holes put into the glass are generally countersunk for the same reason as having rounded corners, but they must have a diameter wider than or equal to the thickness of the glass, else the glass will most likely break during quenching and cooling.
The heat is absorbed into the glass not just from the air in the furnace, but mostly comes from the ceramic rollers. A smaller panel will overheat and distort less if it travels over only a few rollers, rather than absorbing the heat back and forth across all rollers.
A few seconds makes a difference. 12mm thick glass will be in the furnace for a little over 600 seconds. You can consistently have panels break at the stock temperatures, but adding only 15-20 seconds can make them all come out perfect.
A few degrees makes a difference. The heaters on the furnace are top and bottom, and the top is set to a lower temperature since heat rises from the bottom. You get a sort of average between the heaters, on the rollers, but the heat is quickly sucked out from glass going into the furnace. A couple of degrees too hot or too cold can make a huge difference in the quality of the glass coming out.
Colour and emissivity is important. The darker and less reflecting a panel is, the more heat it will absorb, and vice versa.
Seeing PLA in the oven feels kind of redundant to me. You can't accurately regulate the temperatures in the oven, especially since you need to open the door and let heat out to put the plastic in. Having varying, unsupported shapes, such as the fan shroud. You might benefit from leaving supports on the open gap between the fan shroud and removing it after processing it. I think maybe having flat specimens only, you would automatically see more consistent results, since the heat is more uniformly distributed and warping can be minimal, but with no way to apply forces to counteract any warping, it is kind of inevitable in a conventional oven.
I know I'm late to this channel/video and I can't imagine many will read this, but just food for thought.
Moin, am WE die Salz Methode probiert, funktioniert!
Hitzefestes Gefäß nehmen, eine Bodenlage mit Salz einfüllen und verdichten. 3D Print (100% Infill, Linienmuster) einlegen. Mit Salz auffüllen und verdichten. Bis das ganze Werkstück bedeckt ist immer weiter verdichten. Dann in den Ofen, Hitze bei 180°C (PLA) sintern. Temperatur sollte knapp unter dem Schmelzpunkt liegen. Werkstück vorher berabeiten, selbst anmalen mit Wasserfarbe möglich. Wird mit eingebrannt. Dauer hängt von der Größe ab.
Hello, Stefan! I still hope you will test annealing of ABS as you planned. PETG is also interesting :)
Thanks for the great videos. Have you tried 'tempering' in hot water? The maker lab at a local college places PLA prints in water and then in a microwave till the water is hot but not boiling (guessing about 70-80C) then slow cool to room temperature followed by a second cycle where the water is brought to a boil and slow cooled. I have tried this at home on small parts and it does not seem to do much damage but not sure if the parts are stronger or more heat resistant.
Great video. Just curious if you had accounted for the moisture content of the pla? The annealing process probably also dried out the filament very thoroughly which might be a factor.
Very interested to see your results with nylon. My favourite filament is 3dxtech CF filled nylon which produces really strong parts including layer adhesion but can't do a layer thickness of less than 0.25mm.
but what about the one that melted? can't have layer separation if there aren't any layers :v
This is an absolutely valid remark. Although the part looks different it may actually be much more functional strength wise. He should definitely test it.
@@nekononiaow generally though being a puddle loses a crystalline structure. I imagine it'd actually be significantly weaker.......... at least weaker than the flat-printed hooks. Not sure about the upright ones though.
But, I could be wrong too: after all that part is solid now
The best way to make a part would be with an injection mold. No need for a 3d printer any more.
@@stevesclocks if it only it was cheaper making the mold
I want to see it tested too.
I found that brushing over a surface with a soldering iron can increase the stability some, but that is pretty much a very strategic re-melting of the outer shell.
This sounds something like what we do when casting bullets our of lead alloys. Yes our temps are much higher (720 degrees F). We drop the hot bullet as fast as we can out of the mold as soon as it changes from a liquid to a solid into a bucket of water, the colder the better (Does not stay cold very long). We do this to increase hardness. It has something to do with crystals in the alloy. I wonder if cooling fast is possible and if it would make a difference?
Thank you for your videos, I have ordered a 3D printer and have been watching your videos. I want to use my 3D Printer to make Antenna Parts for Amateur Radio.
Have you made a video about epoxy filling parts? Obviously it'll be much stronger, but how much would be cool to see.
PETG gets also crystalline! actually you buy PET as you give the time after it get crystalline ...
The sintering (how you call the treatment you have done) is a slow process and you need to be 2/3 of the melt temperature... so I think maybe ABS is the better material to try it, the problem here is you didn’t get any support and it could happen that it just melts ...
What I really think you can try is to form first the crystallines in pla and after it get crystalline you heating it up close under the melting temperature so the crystallines keeping the structure... and your material can sinter together...