Manual Ferrari F430 vs Manual Ferrari 360! Did I Buy The Wrong Car?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ย. 2022
- Check out my podcast, Behind The Glass (The UK's Number 1 Automotive Podcast)
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I head to @DKEngineeringTV to check out an incredible manual Ferrari F430 that they have just taken into stock.
From Ferrari.com:
The F430 hails the arrival of a whole new generation of Ferrari V8-engined berlinettas. Every inch of the car was inspired by the engineering research carried out at Ferrari’s Gestione Sportiva F1 Racing Division. The result is a highly innovative design characterised by cutting-edge technologies perfected for use on a road-going car.
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Owned multiple examples of both. The main differences between the 360 and 430 - aside from looks and interior / general build quality - are the torque levels and the suspension set up.
The 430 has a more refined feel because you actually spend less time in the upper rev band because there's so much more power across the revs. It can feel aggressively fast without being near 9k. In the 360, it compels you to get the car at 8.5k the whole time because that's really the only place it feels genuinely quick. Getting the CS remap which adds a lot of extra torque is one of the best things you can do with a 360. Changes the car. And because the 430 feels like a more solid car, it leaves the 360 feeling both lighter and rawer.
And this last point applies to the suspension set up as well. The 360 is a loose car. You can feel and are aware of the aluminium construction far more in the 360. This means it's great at the limit when you want a Ferrari to feel like a Ferrari, but can be a little tiresome when mile crunching. In truth, neither are good touring cars. They both drone at too high revs in 6th and they aren't particularly comfortable cars. I consider them purely A to A joyride cars, or cars for occasions. However, the 430 is a lot tauter, feels far less floaty than a 360 and obviously the E-diff is doing a lot of work (it runs constantly), meaning the car can feel quite computer-managed at times. The 360 perhaps feels like a more authentic test of a driver's skills. Both cars are inherently fairly low grip cars (better tyres helps with this), but the 430 is a fast car and the fact that there is extra invisible help working behind the scenes is probably no bad thing (however, others do criticise the E-diff for being too invasive, especially on track). From my point of view, having a "wet mode" in the UK is certainly a welcome thing.
The 430 also has a meaner sort of presence. The sound is deeper, the power delivery is more brutal - they feel like more of a bad-mooded beast. The 360 has a greater sense of lightness and fun to it - which I really associate more with that more "authentic" Ferrari vibe of the 60s - 90s era that really made Ferrari Ferrari.
The 430 feels like the first car of the modern generation. Sharper looks, a more angular, angrier presence. Serious pace. More track focused. This is when Ferraris became more serious cars, for more serious pursuits.
Great write-up. Sounds you driven the cars a lot. What is your opinion on F1/manual?
@@328gts1987 I could opine on this topic all day and if you see some of my historical posts you'll see that.
Ultimately, if you want a manual Ferrari, you'll be more than happy with a manual 360 or 430. At its most basic, they are simply cheaper to maintain (although, obviously cost more to buy in the first place). That doesn't mean a manual gearbox can't explode on you of course, but cars are cars! The manual can be notchy and a bit of tw*t between gears, but this can usually be improved with bushings or linkages or whatever has worn over time.
My 2p is thus: I'd (probably) always buy an F1.
I was having a chat with Aldous @ AV about this and he basically confirmed what I already thought. These are slippy mid-engined Ferraris, right? And even the 360 feels quick enough at the limit. So if you imagine red-lining fundamentally low-grip cars in 3rd or even 4th, you are going at real speed. It's nice (euphemism) to be able to have two hands on the wheel. It's also nice to have the F1 manage your gear changes, because you really don't want to eff up your feet going at 9k revs. I am no heel-toe master (and I've been driving manuals for 20 years now), and the idea of coming to a bend at spend, in a £70-120k car with the onus on you to both brake correctly (easy to overbrake when heel-toeing), change correctly and manage a corner correctly (esp if you are late braking) - that's a lot on your plate.
When you are "in the zone" in one of these cars, on gloriously empty, open roads, and you are hammering (literally) through gears in the F1 - it's a great feeling. Perfect downshifts every time. Moreover, when you aren't hyper concerned with foot technique, you begin to focus more on what's happening in your hands and even more importantly, what's happening underneath you. These cars can snap oversteer on you fairly readily, so having two hands on the wheel is certainly my preference!
Having said all of that, and as I said above, the F1 system isn't the most robust. These aren't DCT boxes that go and go. They can be flakey - so you have to manage that. As we speak, my 430 has a hydraulic pressure issue. So it is what it is. Perhaps, if I had a manual I'd have been able to enjoy this recent sunny weather! :(
(forgot to add that in the 360 F1 you need to spend decent money to get it up to a proper level. Either the CS TCU (gearbox ECU) or one from a 2003 or later 360 will make earlier cars far easier and more enjoyable to drive)
Love your writeup -- I own an F430 and have driven a few 360s. The F430 feels like something I can drive every day year round -- and frankly, I nearly do. The 360 feels more delicate and thus more "classic italian". I love the 360 but I think I'd have a 355 [or possibly even a 348] if I wanted the more vintage Ferrari feel in addition to the F430.
In regards to the F1 vs 6mt -- I think it really really depends on what else you have in your garage. These are not typically an owners only car. I have an F Type convertible w/ the automatic and so I am having my F430 converted from F1 to 6mt. Ideally I'd add another F1 car to the garage at some point but given I currently have two "weekend toys" I wanted one to be manual. That said the F1 surprised me in a great way -- I LOVE the way it drives -- but I bought this car with the plan of converting it.
@@drivencollection good luck with the conversion!
Great comments. Thank you.
F430 is my favourite Ferrari ever - like the 993 Porsche - the last of the genuine article before it got too high tech
It really is the last of an old era
Ha! I am of the exact same opinion.
I prefer the 360 over the 430 and 997.2 over the 993.
@@19poundpound94 I’ve driven many many many miles in a 997 - and I’ll concede it also has its pro’s …. but that’s the newest one for me
So very true. Back in a time where you truly felt connected to the drivetrain. Where you didn’t have a ton of electronic nannies trying to prevent you from having too much fun. Late 80s, 90s and very early 2000s we’re great times in automotive history not long past.
I went for a ride in my uncles manual 430 spider with a sports exhaust and it was absolute heaven!
Love your 360 as well mate!
Back already, that is impressive Sam! Always enjoy when your 360 features on your channel. Reiterating I know, so good you really drive this modern classic car.
Fun recalling of adventures, be it mountain driving or navigating Italian stradas. Excited for the second leg of STG & BTG season 2022. As always, thank you 🤝
Amazing research and/or background knowledge on the 430! Great film as always🙏🏻
Great driving video & comparison Sam! Felt like a genuine ride along enjoying that Italian symphony w/you & letting the song play out without interruptive chatter.
Will never forget seeing my very first 360 in the flesh at Daytona 24 hrs 2001 in that misty bluish silver shade. Practically drove past my nose in the garages!
The 430 certainly brought new advancements & a more powerful engine, but the 360 has always struck me more lithe & graceful stylistically than the 430. More timeless really. BUT, this great driving video doesn't make resisting the 430's added charms any easier! Impossible really. It moves out & sounds great it really does!
Glad to see you back & looking forward to what's in store - more of that new kitty for one!
I really dont understand how this channel does not get more views and subs…. What a content this guy makes! Top quality
Another great video Sam! What a rare piece of kit that 430 manual is, very special indeed. Would be great to have heard it lower down in the rev range too, maybe a bit of short shifting. I feel too many youtubers seem pressured to "rev the nuts off" the cars they are filming. Keep up the good work - can't wait to see the GT3 reveal and all the content it will bring.
Great video Sam. Love where this channel is going, and never doubt yourself when you think you are running out of ideas..you always manage to keep it fresh, and always well executed. Glad you had a good holiday, keep up the good work. Been following you since the start, what a journey! I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t jealous haha 😛
Thank you Sam for another fantastic video! STG is my favorite YT car channel!
Your perspectives comparing these 2 iconic F-cars matches with my experience as well.
The only difference being that when it came to buying my first Ferrari, I preferred the F430.
How fortunate are we that we have the opportunity to drive and own such amazing automobiles?
Love your channel! Keep up the great work, mate!
Great video! Glad to see you back from Holiday! Looking forward to all the upcoming STG adventures!
Thanks for the support
Your rev-matching is spot on ! Great video. Really enjoyed it !
Love your content, your style in making your content.......oh, and you seem to be a genuine straight up bloke. Honestly one of the best car channels about. Keep it up lad !
Very good re-start video ! Good to have you back with full battery for an exciting 2022 end 🤗
Great video, good to have you back when’s the behind the glass podcast? 🤙
Fabulous quality content. When you do videos like this your on fire !
Sam, continue to appreciate your superior production and great content. Best of class in my view. Great job.
Passed you on Friday going the opposite way on the a40! Saw a 360 coming, checked the reg and sure enough. Car looks magnificent.
That has to be one of the most incredibly optioned gated F430 examples I have ever seen! The race seats are such an incredible touch. All it's missing for me is being painted yellow. For years I wanted my first Ferrari to be a yellow gated F430 with race seats. That proved incredibly difficult to find, in fact I only found 1 yellow F430 with race seats and it had an F1 gearbox. Then the prices of gated F430s went to the stratosphere and that dream faded. So instead I purchased a yellow 458 with race seats instead, which I absolutely love! One day I will probably buy an F430 and perform a gated conversion since the kits are available now. Great video, thanks for sharing!
The way you said "brought the wrong car" gave me top gear chills
Hearing the notches and clicks from the gated manual gearbox is really cool
What a spec! and I love the grey color. I was never a Ferrari guy but the 430(manual) has grown on me the last couple of years and made it to the top 3 of my dream cars.
Beautiful car, but I understand your affinity for your personal 360 - looking forward to the remaining content this year, Sam
always required watching for a Sunday. keep it up, Sam!
Casually Db5 in the prep zone as Sam starts his car up
Really engrossing video Sam and I re-watched the onboard footage. Makes me wonder how often you'd drive the 360 if you bought this 430, and whether you'd drive the 430 more overall?
Have a 430 Spider with paddle shift and feel no inclination/need to “upgrade” at all. It is a wonderful, characterful road car (especially with the Ferrari free-flow exhaust fitted) and more than fast enough for today’s roads. A sense of occasion car without risking your license in 1st…I also think it has aged well.
Great review on this comparison Sam. Both cars are great. I think you touched on the main difference being the 430 has a different level of refinement, a bit less twitchy at the limit, along with the increased power and refined e-diff. 360 coupe in my opinion looks better the the 430 coupe. I think the 430 spider is a much more attractive version of the 430. Rear end of the 360 coupe looks much nicer. And, 360 does have a bit more of that high pitch howl. Different engine tones for sure. Either way, a great problem to be having deciding between which you like better :) . I think the 430 is really one of the last dare I say 'Analog' Ferraris that still feels quite Modern as well. Cheers.
Agree 100%. The F430 spider (roof down) looks amazing and sounds are around. As the engine is more eager and more powerfull (85Bhp you will notice) combined with the E-diff (a great feature of the F430 and massively underrated) this "Analog Ferrari" is the last real Ferrari not everyone can drive. The 458 is faster, but also everyone (incl mother -inlaw) cab drive it. Not so with the F430.
It is the last proper ferrari (for men, kuch! ;-)) after which each supercar gets faster but not quicker.
Please tell us what the car was at the end Sam? V12 for sure? Great comparison video and looks like really a big leap forwards over the 360. The leap between 430 and 458 was probably bigger? I’d like to se a video on that. Great content and love your 360...your baby 😃
Great Video! I had a 430 Spider for a few years and loved it, in fact the only thing I was not happy with was the folding top because I am a coupe guy at heart. That being said I wish I would have kept it. Now rolling around in a McLaren 600LT which is an amazing car, but not NA (so miss that lovely Ferrari NA sound) and the type of car where you have to really be at illegal speeds to enjoy because its capabilities are so high. The 430 was even enjoyable at low speeds and I loved the smaller footprint. Hmm...
What a beauty 😍
The car ☝🏼
Thx for the video. It is a pleasure to see the F430. My favourite was and still is the 16M. Love it.
Love that 430 ! 🔥 It does need a race exhaust though. That vibration noise at idle was cringey. Great review Sam ! 👍
Was never really floored by the F430 initially as I'd only seen one in pictures at the time it'd come out and only a handful of them had made it into the country (India). A short while later a friend frantically called me to come over to his place as his Dad's friend had bought something special. So I rushed over and as I pulled up, there she sat, a Rosso Corsa F430. It almost immediately changed my perspective and then when he turned it on and those Novitec exhausts barked into life I instantly melted. What a machine!
I've always thought the gate shift on the Ferrari's manuals would be a sod to change gears in.
You make it look easy Sam.
Those seats look incredible! Classy and a serious race seat all in one.
F430 manual is the dream. What a car. What an experience. Maybe just maybe I’ll be able to drive one someday! Nice video bro!
I did the exact same comparison about 6 years ago. I was seriously looking at purchasing a manual 360 when a manual 430 came into the dealership. Well, I had to try it out. My experience was a little different in that I did not find that the manual suited the 430. It’s as if the engine setup was tuned to work better with their updated F1 gearbox. I felt a certain disconnect. I think your choice of the 360 in manual was a good one. The car feels wonderful in a manual. On the other hand, the archaic F1 on a 360 is just deplorable in that the response times are so bad, that you wonder why Ferrari brought it to market in the first place. Cheers from Chicago!
You are so right. I owned a 360 manual spider a few years ago. I really liked it, and it shifted great, but the car was just a bit too ratty for my taste. Too many scratches and the seats were overly worn etc. So a year ago my dealer called me and said he just got an immaculate condition 08 F430 spider in Rosso Corsa, but it was an F1. So although I was hesitant about the F1, I said I’d give it a try. Well, when I got there the car was absolutely pristine. It looked brand new in every respect with very low kilometres. When I drove it I was blown away by how nice the F1 shifted. Really smooth,quick and accurate even at low speed. The downshifting is fantastic. So I now own it with zero regrets. It’s WAY MORE enjoyable than manual shifting, which I’m kinda over after twenty years of manual Ferrari ownership.
Love seeing your excitement. You should really drive a Scud. It will blow your mind in comparison.
I understand your point. Special vs. Scud. But the older slower one is the one I always wanted.
Another really awesome video Sam. Hope you had a great break.really looking forward to all your adventures.and seeing more of the ferrari as well.are you planning on visiting any super car showrooms and dealerships soon.? I would love to be on one of your videos.if you visit a super car showroom.as I am a very big super car fan.keep the awesome videos and content coming. Great work Sam.looking forward to the next videos.i would love a shout out on one of your videos on my birthday .in two weeks time.thanks Sam.from Dan.m👍👍👍👍👍👍🚘🚘🚘🚘
Fantastic video. Very professional
Awesome cars. Prefer the 360 the interior of this 430 is just too dark makes it look drab and boring especially with that paint job. Very nice videos, well made. Looking forward to the next video. Keep up the good work.
Pleased to see you back and on top form. I hope you managed to rest your arms 😄
Always liked the 360 more, was more raw, better looking and sounding, but the F430 is for sure the better car and quite the leap forward. I also think the 360 was near the end of the analogue era for Ferrari
What an excellent video great insight in to the two cars
Thanks buddy
With you standing in that parking garage and talking about living in London, it suddenly gave me those vibes from that game Late Shift. Not sure if you've ever seen it. I'd be happy with 1 Ferrari..lol
like the cam getting that license plate at 03:05 😊
These manual shifted Ferraris are all gorgeous - each has its own character - love them all.
Yay coming back down to P town WA 🤘🏾
Great camera angle in the car, 👍
Nice review Samuel and congratulations on your success
Thanks matey
When I got my 430 in 2009 it had to be an F1 car, the first of the really usable F1 transmissions and back then the F1 was more expensive than the manual. Oh how times have changed 😄
The leather and stitching, on that particular 430, is very nice!
Future content sounds phenomenal
Would love an LA visit, man!!
Surprised more people haven't subscribed - best car content / channel on the 'Tube.
welcome back mate...
Manual 430s are 50-60k over Scuds in Switzerland 😅 only two on the market though.
But I'd go for a scud everyday of the week!
Stunning car, but with the 360 having its routes firmly from the Dino, it’s still the 360 manual for us. Great video as always Sam.
i always loved the f430. one of my favorite ferrari's.
Hurrah your back. Love love love the video. Sell your slot for the GT3 and get this instead.
Im with you Sam. These are my era of Ferrari. I think the body style of the 360 to 430 was one of the most beautiful and bad ass looking cars.
Hey Sam, if you have a chance to buy this one don't miss it. As you said that era's will not coming back. Keeping two V8 manuals should be costly but its worth to do so ;)
You love the 360 the way that I love the 575M Maranello manual; it's designed for pure driving joy and it was done so at a time when Ferrari cared about making driver's supercars and grand tourers.
Two wonderful examples of a manual Ferrari side by side. What car did you find at the end? A tdf maybe?
The mystery sound at the end with headphones on was EPIC!
Prior to this covid inspire price burst I had my hands on a manual 430 but decided on the 458 spider… I think the f430 has great sound and everything plus manual but it was not a spider and the 458 was last NV regular customer v8 so I chose … though if collecting I miss that chance I also missed .
F430s are aging so well imo, still look really modern.
FYI the Enzo didn't have a manettino, it just had buttons.
Dream material right there (the cars and the video production)!
Fully agree Sam except 1 item. You prefer the manual F430. As you said in the awesome video (again) the F430 is from the F1 area with new techno. Including F1 paddels. As you are a fan of MS he co-designed/develop this amazing Ferrari as a F1 shifting car.
As you point out the 360 and F430 are so different in (engine)karakter. As the F430 can change into different setting (and they are different!) it must not been seen as to successors but actual separate cars. As you say: "360 is a sports car, F430 can been seen as the first super car"
Now days we have hypercars, which the are, Hyper. Not fun to drive (at lower (legal)speeds) and crazy expensive. The speeds you have to drive for getting "into the zone" are to high and for most drivers out of reach/skills....
I agree your statement that a 500bHp car is more then enough on public roads (and stated back in 2006 as "to much")
The F430 is a balanced, quick enough, young-timer supercar and underrated for it's value for money (incl. maintenance no belt service).
I have driven the F430 › 100.000km's (63.000mls) and never missed a gearshift with the F1.
It is relaible, enough power and with exhaust valves open, noisy enough.
Don't see the F430 F1 as a replacement for a manual 360. More as a different generation, like Nokia and iPhone. You can't compare those on paper to but know the difference when you have one.
Did Sam buy the wrong car? Tony: Yes
What a stunning F430, a manual version has always been my realistic dream Ferrari. DK is such a glorious looking place.
I enjoyed this video! Thank you!
Makes me want to drive my 360. Maybe that is just what I am going to do than! …😃
I think I’m familiar with the beer you had during holiday. 😀
Great video !!
Looking at the driver's footwell of the F430, it seems you still sit with your legs slightly pointed to the centre of the vehicle. Ferrari it appears hasn't fully worked out having proper ergonomics in their cars yet during this period. Quick question Sam, have your gotten rid of your garage/office? Any reason you keep your Ferrari at Windrush?
A V12 tease at the end! More!
Ahh the F430. My favorite V8 Ferrari. Still looks so damn good even today!
Integrale next to the monza, cant miss that wing upright
Well spotted
I know those roads very well as it is very close to where I used to live, nice car
You have one of the best cars Sam and in the right colour!!!
Thanks :)
Shout out to Perth! What will you do here? Perth isn't Melbourne or Sydney, cars arnt a big thing.... very Interested as a Perth person....
Oh mate, the 360 at king's Park would be an epic photo,
STG Sunday coffee time with Ferrari sprinkles 😉
Congrats on the Gt3!
Absolutely insane to think the influence shows like topgear had at this time. 90% F1 gearbox?!?!! A manual F430 is a dream and just represents so much of my era growing up similar to yourself.
Hi from Hong Kong! I have a 360MT with sport cat and cherry bomb style exhaust, crazy bright metallic screams ! I’m drooling all over your sport seats!
I love a non-red or yellow Ferrari. That grey (Grigio Silverstone?) is great.
Would love to see you drive a 355 or a 348 manual !
I'll never be a Ferrari guy, too flashy, but I thoroughly enjoyed your video.
Could I ask why you're coming to perth? I'd there a car event that I don't know about?
When are you going to Tim's to check out all his new rides and building?
Your Ferrari videos are the best!
Naaar 360 Modena was my favourite and the CS especially is the best sounding Ferrari ever made. 430 is cool but I’d have the paddles rather than a manual. 360 suits a manual being an older car with less technology. Otherwise, I’d have a 458 because it’s beautiful.
458 with the 430 manual. Seems like the perfect mix (that should have happened)
Why do I pay for a TV licence , when I can watch amazing videos like this !!!!!
I have a manual 430 with the Silverstone Grey an the carbon ceramic brakes. I have the stock seat and they are super comfortable. I like the 360 design better, surprising. The timing chain helped me decided to go to the 430. I will probably sell the car and get the car I wanted in High School a Porsche 911E or S. In High School in 1974 I had the Porsche racing posters on my wall. I know my Ferrari is faster but so what. I love the old long nose Porsche design.
lol, those narrow roads would be exciting to drive in a yugo even. An eyeblink from a sideswipe the whole time.
those roads aren't even that narrow compared to some. I have to take trucks down smaller narrower roads than that and it's not fun I tell ya Haha.
Straight back into it, no hi hello "I'm back".
Bro... why do you not have more subs~! OMG? .. Epic channel. When it pops here its one of the first to get seen!
Some ppl are dumb! 🤨😇😂
Please drive the F50!! wonderful machine