This is great. Thank you. I have genuinely needed something like this for a while. It solves so many little mechanical problems. Like a handcrank genrrator or even a small portable water wheel. So much potential.
This is an old design, a type of differential drive, that takes more energy than it can deliver. So it isn't useful for generators or vehicles. Note that any torque that's delivered requires the electric motor to work just as much as the engine.
@@canonicaltom That's ok. I want to use it for a robot. Agility is key in it's design. I will just use two similar motors and probably use it as an aux set of wheels so that it will only be used as needed.
yep - enter the planetary torque splitter - as seen in the Toyota Prius... (teaching people the similarities between a differential and an epicyclical gear opens avenues.. All are 3 I/O gear-trains.) NB. As used in oilfield work - with a hydraulic secondary, the fixed main prime mover speed allows for everything from full reverse through neutral and full forward without "affecting" available power... It also allows a whole range of "low torque" - or even "lower efficiency / higher loss, CVT types to work on the low torque side to achieve nearly any outcome - with lower losses than using the CVT as the primary torque path... However for idling a wind turbine - once we are dealing with complex systems - feathering and braked rotors are the other side of the "power" equation (generators still get overpowered - no matter the fangt gearing on the back end.. cheers for democratizing great feats of ingenuity. .
Although I wish I had you as my teacher in high school, being the very best.. I dropped maths etc., because I had horrible impatient teachers. Now I'm enjoying so much, how you show and explain. I admit I sometimes have to watch 2, 3 times before I 'get it'. Doesn't matter, even being 70 almost I dream of making little things and even understand what I'm making, all thanks to you!! ❤
If the education system focussed less on the myth of 'learning disabitliies" and instead tried fixing the many existing and much more obvious "teaching disbilities" such as impatience and outdated pedagogies, then perhaps it would fail far less students.
@@christopherd.winnan8701 True, but it also had to do with the time. It was 55 y. ago when this happened. I had no learning disabilities, the opposite was true. But I was a young girl, easily intimidated by Bully teachers, who didn't like to have girls in science or maths classes. I wanted to become a tropical agricultural engineer. Although I passed all exams, I still was refused entry, because 1 girl and 150 boys was not done. I went to uni, studied childpsychology (got my degree but really hated it). Went on studying Soc. Cult. Anthropology specialising in... Tropical Indiginous Farming methods, in Central America. Still annoyed it costed me so much time, to get where I wanted to be, if it weren't for those Bully teachers.. Now I'm retired, Permaculture small farmer, almost off grid, almost self-sufficient, learning so so much and wish I had learned much more of science when I was a teen. Well, it keeps my brain working...
I watch this too. My physics teacher pressed me to change subjects due to my math skills, (the dwawings, wiring and building were mostly ok). I had never taken maths as a subject because I thought it would be too difficult. On the plus side maths for chemistry, I could do. Maybe because I could picture the reactions in my mind. Pure maths is just too abstract!
Looking at it the opposite way and having one input you get a Differential (assuming the right choice of ratio) just like the rear axle of your car! Truly interesting stuff to think about! Once again .... Thanks mate!
- and for fun, take a look at how spur-gear differentials work.. Another hybrid between epicycles (planetary gears) and regular spur gears - eliminating the bevels. Most interesting ways to retain the balanced shaft output without a final speed correction stage.
Commercial wind turbines do it in the generator itself, not the gearbox, using what is called subsynchronous/super synchronous operation by using a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) to produce a variable rotating field in the rotor of the generator itself that shifts the generator's primary synchronous speed up or down from its static mechanical one. No need for complex, heavy and expensive mechanical systems when a simple electrical solution already exists.
@@tcmtech7515 If you fully watched the video, you would see when he showed a clip of a wind turbine that burned up due to an overspeed condition. As great as electronics are, they are often more prone to failure than mechanical components, and despite you claiming it's "simple" it is very much not as simple as a set of gears and the simpler solutions are almost always more reliable. There's a reason wind turbines often have friction brakes and can feather, it's because using the generator as the sole speed regulator is just too risky; the generator is fine to use as a shock absorber to buffer sudden changes in turbine velocity, but only a complete fool would exclusively rely on it for speed control. If a permanent magnet breaks off (if one is used), a control board burns out, a ground fault in the electronics occurs, the coil insulation wears and shorts, etc you've got a potential runaway turbine. I'm glad people in aerospace figured out redundancy, because if they took your approach planes would be falling out of the sky regularly.
Wouldn't that just be for matching the grid frequency though? Whereas the demonstration in the video was using it to limit the maximum rotation speed of the generator to stop it from tearing itself apart. As far as I'm aware, commercial wind turbines don't use VFDs for that, they change the blade angle and apply the brakes, to avoid what you see at 6:50
the prius has been using the two motor planetary gearset for 20 odd years now, one of the things I like most about it (see: prius power split device). the wheels and mg2(motor/generator) are connected to the ring gear, mg1 connects to the sun gear, and the ice(engine) connects to the planet carrier. It starts the engine, provides traction, and reverse, and generation/regeneration. Sometimes it even takes power from the ICE to generate from mg1 to power mg2, what we referred to as "heretical mode" as nobody in the peanut gallery thought it made sense, not unlike the faster than the wind downwind affair. fwiw using the mg to hold the shaft doesn't take a whole lot of power since rpm is zero (power = rpm * torque). I'm not convinced it is a better fit for turbines than variable pitched blades however. And hopefully you will clarify that "it spins about the same rate" isn't because you have created a variable speed drive, but rather you have fixed the ratio of one input and therefore fixed the other, but it is about the same rate solely because it is a very low ratio, and would have the same problems and more once geared up for a generator. If you don't understand how fixing one input ratio fixes the other ratio, then you are well on your way to making free energy videos :)
The prius 2 used this planetary gearbox system with 2 electric motors on it and 1 combustion engine on it. Yes already in 2000 ;-).... But that prius 2 was so ugly !!!so i dont want to listen how incredible it was what they made;-) it was a real cvt no gear switching ect. You get pushed in your seat and it stays like that untill you take of your foot on the pedal. Still driving its 370k km 🎉 best investment in a car 😅
Also have a look at the combustion cycle of the prius 2:" Atkinson cycle" it make more work than a normal car by making the explosion stroke longer then the compression stroke.
The Prius still surprises me. Radical new drivetrain was a huge risk. Putting that new drivetrain in anything other than a conventional body shape seemed suicidal to me. I’m a practical person and the drivetrain efficiency appealed to me. The long delay in upgrading the Prius to a plug in hybrid and increasing battery range cause many to look elsewhere. Still a great car.
Another WOW! - curiously brilliant perception, complex yet simple, and all rolled into one, with real application. Well done yet again. (PS hoping 2170 weird machine grabs your further interest.)
A while back, I sketched something like this, the difference being it used a differential instead of planetary gears. You setup is just as interesting.
Neat set up. With two ring gears setups and the idler in the centre, I think you could use them to drive tracks on each side of a track vehicle. By driving the idler gear you could add rpm to one side and subtract rpm equally on the other side. At a stand still it would rotate the 0:15 track vehicle. You just solved the need for two trans missions in a tank!
You'll be pleased to know that that approach has been invented and commercialized. Caterpillar introduced differential steering with their D8N bulldozer amongst others. Works well!
Thant is brilliant indeed. The only problem I see is that of startup. The generator needs aprox. 3500 rpm. If the wind is light then you need a huge input torque to get it started as the constant speed will try to start the generator at 3500 RPM. It would make more sense to use the electric motor input controlled by a micro controller with wind speed and torque sensor to achieve a smooth controlled startup. Love the content. I'm sure this compact variable speed transmission will be a huge hit in the years to come.
Of course, the reason you want to limit the blade speed is not just so you don't blow up the generator; you also want to keep the blades firmly attached to the hub. The faster they spin, the stronger the forces that want to rip them off.
Intricate Food for thought. The makings of a self governing speed ratio without sensors and additional/external control structures are highly viable in many situations.
Some Aircraft use a constant speed drive unit (CSDU) to drive a generator at a precise frequency needed for the avionics systems, E-CVT in a Mitsubishi hybrid is also similar to the Toyota.
Doing some quick calculations, it unfortunately looks like this system still has a constant mechanical advantage. However, you can get some insanely low reductions as the thinner the ring gear, the less the output shaft rotates.
Yes, that's what I was thinking too. But you do increase the mechanical advantage by driving the ring gear from the same source relative to not driving it (each config is still constant but moving from one to the other does increase your advantage). That's not a CVT but combine it with a one way ratchet and it's an interesting way to do a discrete transmission in a way which doesn't disconnect power to shift to a higher gear.
Sorry, didn't see your post before. I just posted basically the same comment. Not at all a constant velocity but maybe useful for low reductions as you said. No relevance at all to keep wind turbines from blowing up as far as I can see.
❤ Fantastic Idea 💡👍 I'm just about to ask and you start explaining Exactly what I was going to ask,Lol 😆 Idle gearing system is the Answer to my Question!! You have So Much Fun, Robert I suspect this is not "Work" Lol!😎👍👍 (If you find a job you enjoy,, you never work again,, I've no idea who 1st said this but it's So True!!)
Something doesn't quite make sense in my mind. If the output is a constant speed as you speed up the input, it should also be constant as you slow down the input. But if you slow the input until it reaches 0 RPM, the output must slow down to 0 RPM as well. How linear is the ratio of input to output speed?
yeah its not possible - another thing that shows this is that if you took a video of it working and sped the video up 2x, both the input gear and output gear would appear to speed up 2X. it looks like it works but it can't be working like he's saying
So I think if you work out the maths of the gear ratios involved in this setup (and any similar setup), it all ends up as an equivalent linear gear with a very large gear ratio. This is why the speed doesn't appear to change
Very interesting. It feels like the gear equivalent of a pressure bypass valve on a pump, the higher the pressure the more the bypass opens to maintain pressure at the set point. Or negative feedback on an amplifier to tame the massive gain of a transistor.
I don't understand the use of the idle gear at the end. Are you saying that introducing that idle gear ends up with a non-linear relationship between input and output speed? I just can't wrap my head around how that could be possible whilst still delivering torque. If input/output is still a linear relationship, what's the actual benefit of this setup? I think I'm missing something here.
The idle gear is just to reverse the rotation of the feedback component, he's adding negative feedback to limit the speed of the output. If the feedback was positive, the whole thing would runaway in seconds and explode.
@@altair7001 I think the key part of my question is the 'non-linear' thing. If the feedback is linear, then it's subtraction from the final speed would also be linear no?
@@ashedtogether OK I get what you mean. Personally I don't see how this could produce a non-linear relationship between input & output if everything is geared together. There would have to be some external input that is independent from the rest. I would like to experiment with this to find what is the response of this actual setup presented here. Very intriguing!
I think that the geared feedback loop changes the slope of input speed vs output speed, as seen on a graph. The response is linear, but the slope is shallower than the 45 degree slope we would see if the input was connected directly to the output. But to get a real speed control, which would give on the graph, a rising slope that flattens out at some speed and then remains flat, I think that some independent input is necessary.
@@altair7001 Likewise. I've a feeling though that the idle gear addition probably doesn't actually bring anything useful to the table, but I do think there could be some really interesting applications for the setup without. I'm sure you could make a kind of dynamic gear box and I can see that being potentially very useful for electric motor driven systems to maximise torque efficiency at different output speeds. [edit] about slope though, isn't that just generic gear ratio?
Definitely useful for a fly wheel. For a fly wheel you might want to be able to speed up the output instead of keep it constant that way if the fly wheel is spinning fast you can still add energy to it.
You have been so much inspiration for tech that will change the world.... And I do appreciate the finer points of mechanical systems... But the best thing to do is eliminate the biggest sin of any mechanical system: friction.
I had this idea also. I was thinking of higher power systems, like a vehicle. I got to the stage where I ..so far .. reasoned that the control input, i.e. the input controlling the gear ratio, would need to have a similar power to the main drive. Other than that, and maybe for low power systems, it is an excellent CVT transmission. I hope someone can counter my assertion here. I just love your channel !
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the rotational speed of wind turbines is not dependent on wind speed but is controlled by alrering the pitch of the blades - much the same pricipal as applied on many propeller driven aircraft.
Thanks for the video but I believe you are incorrect. By adding the idler gear you are locking in a given reduction ratio. The speed at your final output still varies with the speed of your input. If you are looking to vary the input speed while producing the same output speed (or vice versa) you will still need to vary the speed of the ring gear which can not be done with a fixed idler gear. Have a look at a the workings of a Constant Speed Drive.
Loving this Rob! I had a thought, yes it would work great in a turbine but it would be brilliant in a simple gravity battery build. Biggest problem with gravity battery setups that I have worked with is a braking mechanism so as to not overheat the resistive load. Dump the excessive current into your feedback and problem solved. You turning your gears got my gears(in my head) moving LOL! That could be dangerous if I were to believe what those around me tell me. Thanks again!
Ideally, I suppose, you’d use the feedback to control the pitch of the turbine blades in order to control the speed of the turbine as well. This video is food for thought.
This is a great example of a billion dollar industry that we all rely on for grid power not able to think and change because of inbedded design ideas. A self feed back gear ratio is so obvious and simple for wind turbines to operate in variable wind conditions.
This is making my brain hurt. I'm trying to understand how the idler gear that you've added manages to cancel-out the extra input speed to produce the same output speed no matter what the input speed is. That feels like it should require a more complex mechanism than just a couple extra gears, because there's no sensors (electrical or mechanical) in the system.
I am sorry but you are fooling yourself. The last gearbox has a fixed reduction rate. But is is too big to easily see that the output RPM is not constant. The first setup with the electric motor is no CVT either. It gets variable output RPM with the help of a variable input. But this is a useful setup anyway. The planetary gear set is used to add two inputs. This is what the Prius does with slightly larger motors. This allows running the combustion engine at the optimal RPM whenever it is on and dynamically choose whether the electric motor is used as a engine or a generator and to what amount. So it is not a CVT but arguable even better.
A test you may want to do is to see if an increase of the input speed leads to an increase of torque on the output. You may be losing out on energy to friction when the turbine speeds up, thus losing efficiency.
We used a controlling arm for pushing the ring gear back n forth at its periphery - the arm being connected at its other end to an eccentric position on a gearing linked to the main sun drive in such a way as to to match the planetary gear ratio. This gives a cyclic drive output which is effectively a constant speed with a sinusoidal variation superimposed, which is what we needed for our new fan/generator technology.
Absolutely. That "feedback" idea can’t work, it just gives that planetary gearset a fixed ratio. It worries me that I had to scroll down this far to find a comment pointing that out..
And now i understand how that gear system finally works. I have been wondering for years how planetary gear systems worked and why they were called that. Never could find a simple explanation until now.
cool! If you like gear mechanisms, have a look at the traverse gearbox for a tank. They use two motors running at constant speed in different directions both coupled via clutches and gears to the turret gear. The clutches use some type of ferrous powder inside. A electromagnet is used to make the powder more or less dense and thus vary the clutch transfer. Its pretty neat. (This is used on stuff from the 60's). No speed control required, just different levels of power going into the electromagnets.
primary thing that comes to mind for me, would be that this should be resulting in better torq at output as well, so if put out to an at the rim generator of 3-5 times the size and maybe instead of a direct idle, maybe something that curves the increase, which should allow the better torq thru more easily perhaps. This and a centripetal governor flywheel, and you have peak leveling as soon as you tune all this to go at the right time.
That's a great idea to keep the generator part constant, all you need now is a way to limit turbine speed in high winds so the whole thing doesn't disintegrate like in the clip where the wings fly off due to centrifugal force.
I enjoyed the video enough as it is, but this concise response was the idler gear on the top of the cake for me 😂 Don't know where you get your energy from Rob - but please keep it up.
This is really thought-provoking... Making me wonder if the same (or better) could also be achieved with magnet gears...? For wind turbines though, we want to reduce slow speed by relatively little and yet reduce high speed to a greater degree... which is where a 'feedback' controlled CVT sounds really interesting.
The feedback loop is brilliant. However, for wind turbines, the faster the blades turn for same output rotation, we'll get higher and higher output torque. Since the generator's torque usage isn't building up, the difference will cause both the blades and idler gear keep on gaining speed. Until the problem isn't a too hot generator, but too fast blades breaking from centrifugal force. The solution should ideally include an increasing electricity production (being used by resistive brakes or charging something up to store it) to use up additional output torque with the growing speeds of blades.
Wind turbines are a type of synchronous generator. Increase in wind speed results in higher power output but not higher rotor speed. This is why you see wind farms with all the turbines rotating at the same speed.
Toyota's e-CVT is like that that. In principle. The petrol engine drives the sun gear, and the ring gear drives the diff (which in turn drives the wheels) Hold the planet carrier stationary and you've got a fixed low gear. Then an electric motor is added to the hub carrier and you've got yourself an infinate variable gearbox. That electric motor is also a generator -when the wheels are stationary and equally importantly, a starter motor -when the wheels AND the engine are stationary. To power this electric motor while driving, there's a second electric motor/generator geared to the diff. This one is also used for reversing.
Hey! That gearset that keeps the output speed close to the same speed for any speed of input works like an automatic gain control (AGC) circuit! The idle gear is the resistor in the feedback loop that sets the feedback level. Your current version with equal gears looks like a feedback loop that puts the output back in without reducing it. I also see some similarity to a phase locked loop (PLL) circuit as well. I wonder if other useful circuits could be made of gears. For instance, a zero volt switch (ZVS) circuit could be reproduced as a clutch that only engages when the input shaft is not moving.
Intresting thoughts tou have, somewhere on YT is Analog wooden computer. Gearing and latches were arranged together, antikythera device like. That clutch, think about Weights and Gyroscopic precession force and gearing. Bicycle back in the day tried a Automatic Shifter, levers and weights effectively shifting by Gyroscopic force. The faster speed, greater force on, orbiting lever(s) to gearing. Don't think this bike with shifter exists today, but I think it's not a bad idea using gyroscope's to act as switches.
You can (probably) take this a step further. I came up with a similar idea about a year ago and spent quite some time developing it. Instead of using an idle gear you mesh two planetary gear sets together. The result is a system that self balances based on torque. The gear ratio changes if input torque does not balance with required load. In essence a CVT that can control itself. Diagrams would be easier to read but in words: 2 planetary gear sets pancaked together. Input is planet carrier 1, output is planet carrier 2, sun gears are different sizes but axially one solid one part. Ring gears connect through a third planetary idler gear (held in place) that essentially flips the direction of rotation from ring 1 to ring 2. This forms a feed back loop in the system that shifts the speed of components based on torque imbalance between input and load thus shifting gear ratios without need for external control, clutches, or motors. I would be very interested in seeing you test this idea, hopefully you find it interesting as well.
It is a great idea, and functional. It basically works and can be clearly calculated. Obviously it would require 10-20 years tweeking to go main stream as inventions usually do, but he always is on the education side of things and has a great attitude.
I've seen CVTs with electronic speed controll concepts before. Never understood why they faded away. I also don't know why generators with variable out put aren't more prominent. Instead of using permanent magnets and a coil why not use a small PM Generator that feeds DC power to one set of coils of the bigger generator to adjust the voltage and current output of the primary generator as the speed and torque of the turbine fluctuates.
To make the compound gear assembly super precise, especially, without doing a whole lot of math, put a double cone clutch on it to alter your feedback rotor, and this can be controlled by either a centrifugal governor, or a hydraulic flow resistance governor.
You cannot make a CVT using gears alone. Using gears alone there will be a fixed ratio between input and output period. Having a manual car and riding the clutch may appear like a CVT but it isn't. A torque converter is like a CVT but is lossy.
I see what you're saying. If a second smaller propeller would not be able to turn in the low wind speed, I n the higher wind speed, it could slow the larger propeller down and maybe keep a constant speed for the generator. Excellent.
Interesting, however couldn't follow the bit where you talked about the feedback path. But... don't wind turbines run at synchronous speed and change the blades' pitch to control the power being collected fromn the passing wind?
I think you will have to rethink the wind turbine system. If you put more energy in the blades, it needs to go somewhere. If it is not the generator, it is somewhere else. Also there is something called the tip speed ratio (TSR) which is more important. You cannot let the blades run faster then what they are built for. If you would try to run them at a lower speed(in lower winds), they will be under powered and stall.
Very interesting indeed! But here's a brain teaser: What happens to the input shaft, if you turn the output shaft with this arrangement? Will it arbitrarily change speeds, or find an equilibrium at some point? Then what are the factors?!
@@ThinkingandTinkering No Robert, the planetary gear is a simple differential the output is the difference between sun and ring gear (via some ratio) if the ring is connected to the input this motion is either a subtraction or addition (depends on reversal or not) There is speed sensitive NO division or multiplication.. If your scheme could regulate, i.e. up and down , then what would stop it spinning the output with no input?. BTW I have been playing with gears for 60years .
What happens when the output shaft is driven of the final setup? Wondering if it becomes a constant speed input, variable speed output based on input torque.
THATS interesting. Did you have any specific applications in mind? I gather that certain types of engines must remain at a nearly fixed rpm to perform efficiently. If the output of the (now reversed) system is stopped, torque would be maximum to get the mass moving. Once it’s moving, torque falls but rpm increases to continue to add force to the gathering momentum. It sounds perfect.
@@nitsuadivad If it works on back pressure maybe a air resistance governor would allow it to change the ratio and increase the torque during high speed winds. Maybe extra windings could draw output in high wind also.
You should probably look at how Toyota did the eCVT on my Hybrid Camry, it is similar to what you printed but uses 2 electric motor/generators to get an infinite gear ratio, you could easily replace the hybrid battery with a Capacitor to make a DIY CVT. Most modern wind turbines pivot the blades to slow the spin rate down, the ones I worked on you can actually reverse the pivot on the blades to act as a brake slowing the revolutions to avoid over-spin. I have worked on them with zero rotation in gale force winds.
Do you know that the Rav4 Hybrid works in a similar way ? They use an 8KW motor between the wheels and the engine. The relative sincronization in terms of rpms generates the ratio
Very interesting, thank you. Curiosity: I wonder what would happen if you swapped the input and output? Would you have a self-regulating CVT that usefully varied it's output speed as a function of input torque and speed..?
cars CVT use a metal strap and conical pulley with centrifugal control. they might be hydroponically controlled, but its the same as a scooter. shorts/jKkaq1yvuZU
Yes it is :-) lovely how everybody hates the Prius in 2000-2010. I always was big fan of what they made. If you explain it to normal people without saying it was in that ugly hybrid it's amazing to see how every body reacts now: put in in a f1 ,make a patent. Use it in hybrids ect :-D
@@ThinkingandTinkering it isnt. i had linked a video and explained it, but it was censored by youtube. basically a prius has a scooter transmission, its two conical pulled and a metal belt.
Hey Robert, i hav a suggestion for a video id like to see. I see alot of people online using 'crisco' vegetable shortening to create extremely long burning candles. Like, 24 days straight from a single candle. Im wondering if your forever wick would work and how this could be used to create an emergency heater. Also, it would be interesting to see whether its efficient or perhaps just false economy. Id like to see that video!!
Thanks for the video. Such a pleasure to watch and to think about. Now, I'm wondering how many Sun, Planet, Ring gears one can fit or set up, like a fractal, within a master Sun, Planet, Ring gear system and what it would do or what use it could be.
There are Compound Planetary gear systems that use the outside of the ring gear as the sun for another set of planets and outer ring gear. I think you can get extra high reduction ratios this way.
If you're taking some speed from the primary drive, and are using it to spin the output shaft backwards, doesnt it just spin the output shaft backwards.. without increasing the torque it produces? I would say it technically doesn't increase the gear ratio, but that's wrong because at the end.of the day the input would have spun a lot more If you're using some energy to spin the output shaft the wrong direction to make it do less circles. However same thing could be done if you just Intermittently disconnect the output shaft in general, And the input would have spun more. So spinning the output shaft the wrong way only modulates the speed infinitely, it doesn't module the torque, because spinning the output backwards doesn't add any torque, just removes speed
This would also allow a greater torque output during high wind so that extra current can be supplied and the extra energy can be harvested during high winds rather than waisted if brakes were to be used.
I cannot imagine how much time you spend 3d printing all the parts for these episodes. Lol. We appreciate you and all you do for us.
He can only be preparing two weeks in advance of his video posts . Not the night before.
cheers mate
The $ to print - not that much,
The time to design - a very long time
Ha, brilliant, clever and simple. Nice one Rob
I'd be happy to be a tenth as clever as this bloke, he never ceases to amaze me.
lol - cheers mate
You're selling yourself short.
This is great. Thank you. I have genuinely needed something like this for a while. It solves so many little mechanical problems. Like a handcrank genrrator or even a small portable water wheel. So much potential.
cheers mate
@@ThinkingandTinkeringNo problem :D
This is an old design, a type of differential drive, that takes more energy than it can deliver. So it isn't useful for generators or vehicles. Note that any torque that's delivered requires the electric motor to work just as much as the engine.
@@canonicaltom That's ok. I want to use it for a robot. Agility is key in it's design. I will just use two similar motors and probably use it as an aux set of wheels so that it will only be used as needed.
@@memejeff Sounds like a great idea.
yep - enter the planetary torque splitter - as seen in the Toyota Prius...
(teaching people the similarities between a differential and an epicyclical gear opens avenues.. All are 3 I/O gear-trains.)
NB. As used in oilfield work - with a hydraulic secondary, the fixed main prime mover speed allows for everything from full reverse through neutral and full forward without "affecting" available power...
It also allows a whole range of "low torque" - or even "lower efficiency / higher loss, CVT types to work on the low torque side to achieve nearly any outcome - with lower losses than using the CVT as the primary torque path...
However for idling a wind turbine - once we are dealing with complex systems - feathering and braked rotors are the other side of the "power" equation (generators still get overpowered - no matter the fangt gearing on the back end..
cheers for democratizing great feats of ingenuity. .
Although I wish I had you as my teacher in high school, being the very best.. I dropped maths etc., because I had horrible impatient teachers. Now I'm enjoying so much, how you show and explain. I admit I sometimes have to watch 2, 3 times before I 'get it'. Doesn't matter, even being 70 almost I dream of making little things and even understand what I'm making, all thanks to you!! ❤
Wow, thank you mate
If the education system focussed less on the myth of 'learning disabitliies" and instead tried fixing the many existing and much more obvious "teaching disbilities" such as impatience and outdated pedagogies, then perhaps it would fail far less students.
@@christopherd.winnan8701 True, but it also had to do with the time. It was 55 y. ago when this happened. I had no learning disabilities, the opposite was true. But I was a young girl, easily intimidated by Bully teachers, who didn't like to have girls in science or maths classes. I wanted to become a tropical agricultural engineer. Although I passed all exams, I still was refused entry, because 1 girl and 150 boys was not done. I went to uni, studied childpsychology (got my degree but really hated it). Went on studying Soc. Cult. Anthropology specialising in... Tropical Indiginous Farming methods, in Central America. Still annoyed it costed me so much time, to get where I wanted to be, if it weren't for those Bully teachers.. Now I'm retired, Permaculture small farmer, almost off grid, almost self-sufficient, learning so so much and wish I had learned much more of science when I was a teen. Well, it keeps my brain working...
I watch this too. My physics teacher pressed me to change subjects due to my math skills, (the dwawings, wiring and building were mostly ok). I had never taken maths as a subject because I thought it would be too difficult.
On the plus side maths for chemistry, I could do. Maybe because I could picture the reactions in my mind.
Pure maths is just too abstract!
Looking at it the opposite way and having one input you get a Differential (assuming the right choice of ratio) just like the rear axle of your car!
Truly interesting stuff to think about!
Once again .... Thanks mate!
nice comment - cheers mate
- and for fun, take a look at how spur-gear differentials work.. Another hybrid between epicycles (planetary gears) and regular spur gears - eliminating the bevels. Most interesting ways to retain the balanced shaft output without a final speed correction stage.
Commercial wind turbines do it in the generator itself, not the gearbox, using what is called subsynchronous/super synchronous operation by using a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) to produce a variable rotating field in the rotor of the generator itself that shifts the generator's primary synchronous speed up or down from its static mechanical one.
No need for complex, heavy and expensive mechanical systems when a simple electrical solution already exists.
? explane i the demonstration video fire smoke and bits going everywhere then ?
@@dh2032 I don't know what you are referring to.
@@tcmtech7515 If you fully watched the video, you would see when he showed a clip of a wind turbine that burned up due to an overspeed condition. As great as electronics are, they are often more prone to failure than mechanical components, and despite you claiming it's "simple" it is very much not as simple as a set of gears and the simpler solutions are almost always more reliable. There's a reason wind turbines often have friction brakes and can feather, it's because using the generator as the sole speed regulator is just too risky; the generator is fine to use as a shock absorber to buffer sudden changes in turbine velocity, but only a complete fool would exclusively rely on it for speed control. If a permanent magnet breaks off (if one is used), a control board burns out, a ground fault in the electronics occurs, the coil insulation wears and shorts, etc you've got a potential runaway turbine. I'm glad people in aerospace figured out redundancy, because if they took your approach planes would be falling out of the sky regularly.
Wouldn't that just be for matching the grid frequency though? Whereas the demonstration in the video was using it to limit the maximum rotation speed of the generator to stop it from tearing itself apart. As far as I'm aware, commercial wind turbines don't use VFDs for that, they change the blade angle and apply the brakes, to avoid what you see at 6:50
@@vink6163 They use multiple systems to keep them under control.
This can definitely stop wind turbines from blowing up actually. Excellent work!
cheers mate
fun fact: modern wind turbines use this principle already. But nevertheless, very nice explanation!
the prius has been using the two motor planetary gearset for 20 odd years now, one of the things I like most about it (see: prius power split device). the wheels and mg2(motor/generator) are connected to the ring gear, mg1 connects to the sun gear, and the ice(engine) connects to the planet carrier. It starts the engine, provides traction, and reverse, and generation/regeneration. Sometimes it even takes power from the ICE to generate from mg1 to power mg2, what we referred to as "heretical mode" as nobody in the peanut gallery thought it made sense, not unlike the faster than the wind downwind affair. fwiw using the mg to hold the shaft doesn't take a whole lot of power since rpm is zero (power = rpm * torque).
I'm not convinced it is a better fit for turbines than variable pitched blades however. And hopefully you will clarify that "it spins about the same rate" isn't because you have created a variable speed drive, but rather you have fixed the ratio of one input and therefore fixed the other, but it is about the same rate solely because it is a very low ratio, and would have the same problems and more once geared up for a generator. If you don't understand how fixing one input ratio fixes the other ratio, then you are well on your way to making free energy videos :)
huh, i was tempted to buy a prius a long time ago but put off by the cvt because i thought it was one of those gross belt type ones
The prius 2 used this planetary gearbox system with 2 electric motors on it and 1 combustion engine on it. Yes already in 2000 ;-).... But that prius 2 was so ugly !!!so i dont want to listen how incredible it was what they made;-) it was a real cvt no gear switching ect. You get pushed in your seat and it stays like that untill you take of your foot on the pedal. Still driving its 370k km 🎉 best investment in a car 😅
Also have a look at the combustion cycle of the prius 2:" Atkinson cycle" it make more work than a normal car by making the explosion stroke longer then the compression stroke.
nice - thanks for sharing mate
My new Sienna doesn’t have a tranny, but does have a planetary gear drive. So far nobody has been able to explain how it works or controlled.
The Prius still surprises me. Radical new drivetrain was a huge risk. Putting that new drivetrain in anything other than a conventional body shape seemed suicidal to me.
I’m a practical person and the drivetrain efficiency appealed to me. The long delay in upgrading the Prius to a plug in hybrid and increasing battery range cause many to look elsewhere.
Still a great car.
@@MatthewTaylorAu I have one of the original plug in Prius. The lack of battery range is its biggest drawback.
Absolutely brilliant design! Love the simplicity of the idler gear.
Another WOW! - curiously brilliant perception, complex yet simple, and all rolled into one, with real application. Well done yet again. (PS hoping 2170 weird machine grabs your further interest.)
Awesome! Thank you!- and i do like that motor
A while back, I sketched something like this, the difference being it used a differential instead of planetary gears. You setup is just as interesting.
Fantastic. I really enjoyed that. Your enthusiasm is infectious 😎👍
Neat set up. With two ring gears setups and the idler in the centre, I think you could use them to drive tracks on each side of a track vehicle. By driving the idler gear you could add rpm to one side and subtract rpm equally on the other side. At a stand still it would rotate the 0:15 track vehicle. You just solved the need for two trans missions in a tank!
You'll be pleased to know that that approach has been invented and commercialized. Caterpillar introduced differential steering with their D8N bulldozer amongst others. Works well!
@@frontagulus O Dang! And here I was all impressed, when I got on a backhoe with JOYSTICKS!
that's cool - nice idea cheers mate
Thant is brilliant indeed. The only problem I see is that of startup. The generator needs aprox. 3500 rpm. If the wind is light then you need a huge input torque to get it started as the constant speed will try to start the generator at 3500 RPM. It would make more sense to use the electric motor input controlled by a micro controller with wind speed and torque sensor to achieve a smooth controlled startup. Love the content. I'm sure this compact variable speed transmission will be a huge hit in the years to come.
I have loved gears since high school and I still love today at 59. And now a days we can 3d print them. Who said it can't been. Great Vid, Thank you 👍
You have just leveled up to genius mate very impressed 👍
Of course, the reason you want to limit the blade speed is not just so you don't blow up the generator; you also want to keep the blades firmly attached to the hub. The faster they spin, the stronger the forces that want to rip them off.
Intricate Food for thought.
The makings of a self governing speed ratio without sensors and additional/external control structures are highly viable in many situations.
Amazing, just stumbled on your videos and thingyverse files. Learning a lot in just one day. 🙏
I want this in hybrid cars. The simplicity of mechanics of this is actually out of this world
It's in a prius
It’s literally all Toyota hybrids. Prius, Crown, Camry Hybrid, anything with a blue-tint Toyota badge has this inside it.
Some Aircraft use a constant speed drive unit (CSDU) to drive a generator at a precise frequency needed for the avionics systems, E-CVT in a Mitsubishi hybrid is also similar to the Toyota.
Ford, Toyota and Chrysler all use it. Been around for decades.
apparently it already is!
Proof that the Sun and planets are flat and not sphere's! 🤣😂🤣 Another great video. Thanks very much Robert!
Brilliant! Now I see why I CAN'T stop watching your videos!!!!
Thank you for taking the time to think and tinker, discovering BEAUTIFUL ideas!
Doing some quick calculations, it unfortunately looks like this system still has a constant mechanical advantage. However, you can get some insanely low reductions as the thinner the ring gear, the less the output shaft rotates.
I was just going to say because it is made of simple meshing gears it has to be equivalent to a constant mechanical advantage
cheers mate
Yes, that's what I was thinking too. But you do increase the mechanical advantage by driving the ring gear from the same source relative to not driving it (each config is still constant but moving from one to the other does increase your advantage).
That's not a CVT but combine it with a one way ratchet and it's an interesting way to do a discrete transmission in a way which doesn't disconnect power to shift to a higher gear.
Sorry, didn't see your post before. I just posted basically the same comment. Not at all a constant velocity but maybe useful for low reductions as you said. No relevance at all to keep wind turbines from blowing up as far as I can see.
❤ Fantastic Idea 💡👍
I'm just about to ask and you start explaining Exactly what I was going to ask,Lol 😆
Idle gearing system is the Answer to my Question!!
You have So Much Fun, Robert I suspect this is not "Work" Lol!😎👍👍
(If you find a job you enjoy,, you never work again,, I've no idea who 1st said this but it's So True!!)
oh wow - glad i could help
Something doesn't quite make sense in my mind. If the output is a constant speed as you speed up the input, it should also be constant as you slow down the input. But if you slow the input until it reaches 0 RPM, the output must slow down to 0 RPM as well. How linear is the ratio of input to output speed?
yeah its not possible - another thing that shows this is that if you took a video of it working and sped the video up 2x, both the input gear and output gear would appear to speed up 2X. it looks like it works but it can't be working like he's saying
So I think if you work out the maths of the gear ratios involved in this setup (and any similar setup), it all ends up as an equivalent linear gear with a very large gear ratio. This is why the speed doesn't appear to change
Very interesting. It feels like the gear equivalent of a pressure bypass valve on a pump, the higher the pressure the more the bypass opens to maintain pressure at the set point. Or negative feedback on an amplifier to tame the massive gain of a transistor.
Great point!
I don't understand the use of the idle gear at the end. Are you saying that introducing that idle gear ends up with a non-linear relationship between input and output speed? I just can't wrap my head around how that could be possible whilst still delivering torque. If input/output is still a linear relationship, what's the actual benefit of this setup?
I think I'm missing something here.
The idle gear is just to reverse the rotation of the feedback component, he's adding negative feedback to limit the speed of the output. If the feedback was positive, the whole thing would runaway in seconds and explode.
@@altair7001 I think the key part of my question is the 'non-linear' thing. If the feedback is linear, then it's subtraction from the final speed would also be linear no?
@@ashedtogether OK I get what you mean. Personally I don't see how this could produce a non-linear relationship between input & output if everything is geared together. There would have to be some external input that is independent from the rest. I would like to experiment with this to find what is the response of this actual setup presented here. Very intriguing!
I think that the geared feedback loop changes the slope of input speed vs output speed, as seen on a graph. The response is linear, but the slope is shallower than the 45 degree slope we would see if the input was connected directly to the output. But to get a real speed control, which would give on the graph, a rising slope that flattens out at some speed and then remains flat, I think that some independent input is necessary.
@@altair7001 Likewise. I've a feeling though that the idle gear addition probably doesn't actually bring anything useful to the table, but I do think there could be some really interesting applications for the setup without. I'm sure you could make a kind of dynamic gear box and I can see that being potentially very useful for electric motor driven systems to maximise torque efficiency at different output speeds.
[edit] about slope though, isn't that just generic gear ratio?
Definitely useful for a fly wheel. For a fly wheel you might want to be able to speed up the output instead of keep it constant that way if the fly wheel is spinning fast you can still add energy to it.
that's a god thought - thank you for sharing that idea
Connect the ring gear to the flywheel.
Some city buses do in fact use a flywheel and variable mechanical drive to store energy from braking for acceleration.
You never cease to amaze, Rob. So cool.
lol - cheers mate
You have been so much inspiration for tech that will change the world.... And I do appreciate the finer points of mechanical systems... But the best thing to do is eliminate the biggest sin of any mechanical system: friction.
Oh this is brilliant Robert! Mechanical feedback speed controller/governor. Awesome! 👍 Cheers!
Man,... that's absolutely BRILLIANT I think. I'd love use that design in the gearbox of an ebike! ... Just totally ingenious.
I had this idea also. I was thinking of higher power systems, like a vehicle.
I got to the stage where I ..so far .. reasoned that the control input, i.e. the input controlling the gear ratio, would need to have a similar power to the main drive.
Other than that, and maybe for low power systems, it is an excellent CVT transmission.
I hope someone can counter my assertion here.
I just love your channel !
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the rotational speed of wind turbines is not dependent on wind speed but is controlled by alrering the pitch of the blades - much the same pricipal as applied on many propeller driven aircraft.
wait till the wind gets windier
Nice work and good explanation Robert, I’m one of your subscribers now.
Thanks for the video but I believe you are incorrect. By adding the idler gear you are locking in a given reduction ratio. The speed at your final output still varies with the speed of your input. If you are looking to vary the input speed while producing the same output speed (or vice versa) you will still need to vary the speed of the ring gear which can not be done with a fixed idler gear. Have a look at a the workings of a Constant Speed Drive.
I agree. All he has built is an unnecessarily complicated fixed-ratio gearbox. All the talk about 'feedback' is BS.
Loving this Rob! I had a thought, yes it would work great in a turbine but it would be brilliant in a simple gravity battery build. Biggest problem with gravity battery setups that I have worked with is a braking mechanism so as to not overheat the resistive load. Dump the excessive current into your feedback and problem solved. You turning your gears got my gears(in my head) moving LOL! That could be dangerous if I were to believe what those around me tell me. Thanks again!
Ideally, I suppose, you’d use the feedback to control the pitch of the turbine blades in order to control the speed of the turbine as well. This video is food for thought.
This is a great example of a billion dollar industry that we all rely on for grid power not able to think and change because of inbedded design ideas. A self feed back gear ratio is so obvious and simple for wind turbines to operate in variable wind conditions.
cheers mate
Nice work Rob!!! Brilliant thinking as per usual ✌️ Thanks for sharing!
Such a pleasure to watch your content. Your knowledge base always amazes me. Thank You!!
This reminds me of the differential steering mechanism used in tanks. Interesting idea to apply it to wind turbines.
cheers mate
not a new idea but a demonstration of the gearing of modern wind turbines.
This is making my brain hurt. I'm trying to understand how the idler gear that you've added manages to cancel-out the extra input speed to produce the same output speed no matter what the input speed is. That feels like it should require a more complex mechanism than just a couple extra gears, because there's no sensors (electrical or mechanical) in the system.
Brilliance and enthusiasm. What a great combination!
I am sorry but you are fooling yourself. The last gearbox has a fixed reduction rate. But is is too big to easily see that the output RPM is not constant.
The first setup with the electric motor is no CVT either. It gets variable output RPM with the help of a variable input. But this is a useful setup anyway. The planetary gear set is used to add two inputs. This is what the Prius does with slightly larger motors. This allows running the combustion engine at the optimal RPM whenever it is on and dynamically choose whether the electric motor is used as a engine or a generator and to what amount. So it is not a CVT but arguable even better.
A test you may want to do is to see if an increase of the input speed leads to an increase of torque on the output. You may be losing out on energy to friction when the turbine speeds up, thus losing efficiency.
We used a controlling arm for pushing the ring gear back n forth at its periphery - the arm being connected at its other end to an eccentric position on a gearing linked to the main sun drive in such a way as to to match the planetary gear ratio. This gives a cyclic drive output which is effectively a constant speed with a sinusoidal variation superimposed, which is what we needed for our new fan/generator technology.
So neat how you think and solve similiar upcoming problems that I have been thinking about as well. Gj.
Doesn't that feedback mechanism just increase the gear ratio a constant amount and just always slow it down more?
Absolutely. That "feedback" idea can’t work, it just gives that planetary gearset a fixed ratio.
It worries me that I had to scroll down this far to find a comment pointing that out..
You have a gift talking for complex things with great simplicity. Thanks.
And now i understand how that gear system finally works. I have been wondering for years how planetary gear systems worked and why they were called that. Never could find a simple explanation until now.
Congratulations, Rob, great job!
Oh, I like TH-cam algorithms sometimes! Suddenly it promoted me your videos and your channel. Already subscribed 👍🏻
cool! If you like gear mechanisms, have a look at the traverse gearbox for a tank. They use two motors running at constant speed in different directions both coupled via clutches and gears to the turret gear. The clutches use some type of ferrous powder inside. A electromagnet is used to make the powder more or less dense and thus vary the clutch transfer. Its pretty neat. (This is used on stuff from the 60's). No speed control required, just different levels of power going into the electromagnets.
Amazing Idea, to fit a feedback system in the gear itself.
Thank You for this video!
Wonderful.
Thank you for your designs and for sharing them.
primary thing that comes to mind for me, would be that this should be resulting in better torq at output as well, so if put out to an at the rim generator of 3-5 times the size and maybe instead of a direct idle, maybe something that curves the increase, which should allow the better torq thru more easily perhaps. This and a centripetal governor flywheel, and you have peak leveling as soon as you tune all this to go at the right time.
I would think so
That's a great idea to keep the generator part constant, all you need now is a way to limit turbine speed in high winds so the whole thing doesn't disintegrate like in the clip where the wings fly off due to centrifugal force.
Just reverse the input to output , and you can have a constant speed air foil.
He changed the world again
cheers mate
It's a bit of a stretch to call that a CVT. It's a differential.
no it isn't
I enjoyed the video enough as it is, but this concise response was the idler gear on the top of the cake for me 😂
Don't know where you get your energy from Rob - but please keep it up.
This is really thought-provoking... Making me wonder if the same (or better) could also be achieved with magnet gears...? For wind turbines though, we want to reduce slow speed by relatively little and yet reduce high speed to a greater degree... which is where a 'feedback' controlled CVT sounds really interesting.
Good question. Magnetic planetary gears?
Excellent, thanks for the brilliant idea and demo. As usual!
This is incredible!! Why aren't all car companies jumping on this? belt drive CVT's suck
The feedback loop is brilliant. However, for wind turbines, the faster the blades turn for same output rotation, we'll get higher and higher output torque. Since the generator's torque usage isn't building up, the difference will cause both the blades and idler gear keep on gaining speed. Until the problem isn't a too hot generator, but too fast blades breaking from centrifugal force. The solution should ideally include an increasing electricity production (being used by resistive brakes or charging something up to store it) to use up additional output torque with the growing speeds of blades.
Wind turbines are a type of synchronous generator. Increase in wind speed results in higher power output but not higher rotor speed.
This is why you see wind farms with all the turbines rotating at the same speed.
Toyota's e-CVT is like that that. In principle.
The petrol engine drives the sun gear, and the ring gear drives the diff (which in turn drives the wheels)
Hold the planet carrier stationary and you've got a fixed low gear. Then an electric motor is added to the hub carrier and you've got yourself an infinate variable gearbox.
That electric motor is also a generator -when the wheels are stationary and equally importantly, a starter motor -when the wheels AND the engine are stationary.
To power this electric motor while driving, there's a second electric motor/generator geared to the diff. This one is also used for reversing.
Hey! That gearset that keeps the output speed close to the same speed for any speed of input works like an automatic gain control (AGC) circuit! The idle gear is the resistor in the feedback loop that sets the feedback level. Your current version with equal gears looks like a feedback loop that puts the output back in without reducing it. I also see some similarity to a phase locked loop (PLL) circuit as well. I wonder if other useful circuits could be made of gears. For instance, a zero volt switch (ZVS) circuit could be reproduced as a clutch that only engages when the input shaft is not moving.
Intresting thoughts tou have, somewhere on YT is Analog wooden computer. Gearing and latches were arranged together, antikythera device like. That clutch, think about Weights and Gyroscopic precession force and gearing.
Bicycle back in the day tried a Automatic Shifter, levers and weights effectively shifting by Gyroscopic force. The faster speed, greater force on, orbiting lever(s) to gearing. Don't think this bike with shifter exists today, but I think it's not a bad idea using gyroscope's to act as switches.
You can (probably) take this a step further. I came up with a similar idea about a year ago and spent quite some time developing it. Instead of using an idle gear you mesh two planetary gear sets together. The result is a system that self balances based on torque. The gear ratio changes if input torque does not balance with required load. In essence a CVT that can control itself.
Diagrams would be easier to read but in words: 2 planetary gear sets pancaked together. Input is planet carrier 1, output is planet carrier 2, sun gears are different sizes but axially one solid one part. Ring gears connect through a third planetary idler gear (held in place) that essentially flips the direction of rotation from ring 1 to ring 2. This forms a feed back loop in the system that shifts the speed of components based on torque imbalance between input and load thus shifting gear ratios without need for external control, clutches, or motors.
I would be very interested in seeing you test this idea, hopefully you find it interesting as well.
Now lets test it in an F1!!!
HAAS should try anything at this point.
It is a great idea, and functional. It basically works and can be clearly calculated. Obviously it would require 10-20 years tweeking to go main stream as inventions usually do, but he always is on the education side of things and has a great attitude.
Haha 😂 it's in a Prius ;-)
Prius 2 that is 2003-2009. Amazing isn't it :-p that was a f1 car!
@@VinokDesign Interesting!. Would love to own one of those devices! The transmission that is.
I've seen CVTs with electronic speed controll concepts before. Never understood why they faded away. I also don't know why generators with variable out put aren't more prominent. Instead of using permanent magnets and a coil why not use a small PM Generator that feeds DC power to one set of coils of the bigger generator to adjust the voltage and current output of the primary generator as the speed and torque of the turbine fluctuates.
Brushless generators do what you describe, either controlled with a capacitor to power the field windings or an AVR, (Automatic Voltage Regulator)
cheers mate
To make the compound gear assembly super precise, especially, without doing a whole lot of math, put a double cone clutch on it to alter your feedback rotor, and this can be controlled by either a centrifugal governor, or a hydraulic flow resistance governor.
He just can’t stop improving!
You cannot make a CVT using gears alone.
Using gears alone there will be a fixed ratio between input and output period.
Having a manual car and riding the clutch may appear like a CVT but it isn't.
A torque converter is like a CVT but is lossy.
I see what you're saying. If a second smaller propeller would not be able to turn in the low wind speed, I n the higher wind speed, it could slow the larger propeller down and maybe keep a constant speed for the generator. Excellent.
That is awesome!! I love mechanical solutions to things that I can only imagine electronics doing
always informative ideas to explore!
Glad you like them!
Interesting, however couldn't follow the bit where you talked about the feedback path. But... don't wind turbines run at synchronous speed and change the blades' pitch to control the power being collected fromn the passing wind?
I think you will have to rethink the wind turbine system. If you put more energy in the blades, it needs to go somewhere. If it is not the generator, it is somewhere else. Also there is something called the tip speed ratio (TSR) which is more important. You cannot let the blades run faster then what they are built for. If you would try to run them at a lower speed(in lower winds), they will be under powered and stall.
You are one smart cookie, brilliant demonstration
Very interesting indeed!
But here's a brain teaser: What happens to the input shaft, if you turn the output shaft with this arrangement? Will it arbitrarily change speeds, or find an equilibrium at some point? Then what are the factors?!
No. You have only changed the ratio . There is no regulation or variable ratio.
you missing something - look again
@@ThinkingandTinkering No Robert, the planetary gear is a simple differential the output is the difference between sun and ring gear (via some ratio) if the ring is connected to the input this motion is either a subtraction or addition (depends on reversal or not) There is speed sensitive NO division or multiplication.. If your scheme could regulate, i.e. up and down , then what would stop it spinning the output with no input?. BTW I have been playing with gears for 60years .
@@ThinkingandTinkering The variation of the original differential cvt is provided by the second motor, not by any magic in the gears.
@@ThinkingandTinkering You have it in front of you. Measure it ,,;-)
You need to collaborate with Rutland wind turbines!!
if they are interested they are welcome to it
What happens when the output shaft is driven of the final setup? Wondering if it becomes a constant speed input, variable speed output based on input torque.
THATS interesting. Did you have any specific applications in mind? I gather that certain types of engines must remain at a nearly fixed rpm to perform efficiently. If the output of the (now reversed) system is stopped, torque would be maximum to get the mass moving. Once it’s moving, torque falls but rpm increases to continue to add force to the gathering momentum. It sounds perfect.
I didn't understand how fixed gear sizes were able to output a variable. can you update it showing the ratios between input and output changing?
sure
They can't. The only balance effect here is friction. Without that, fixed gears will give a fix gear ratio.
@@nitsuadivad If it works on back pressure maybe a air resistance governor would allow it to change the ratio and increase the torque during high speed winds. Maybe extra windings could draw output in high wind also.
How fantastic! I've never seen anything like it. Thanks very much for the video!
You should probably look at how Toyota did the eCVT on my Hybrid Camry, it is similar to what you printed but uses 2 electric motor/generators to get an infinite gear ratio, you could easily replace the hybrid battery with a Capacitor to make a DIY CVT.
Most modern wind turbines pivot the blades to slow the spin rate down, the ones I worked on you can actually reverse the pivot on the blades to act as a brake slowing the revolutions to avoid over-spin. I have worked on them with zero rotation in gale force winds.
Do you know that the Rav4 Hybrid works in a similar way ? They use an 8KW motor between the wheels and the engine. The relative sincronization in terms of rpms generates the ratio
Very interesting, thank you.
Curiosity:
I wonder what would happen if you swapped the input and output? Would you have a self-regulating CVT that usefully varied it's output speed as a function of input torque and speed..?
Nice one, that is extremely progressive. A great job for this ingenious presentation. Thanks a lot for adding to know how
In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
Isn't this the basis of how a Toyota Prius "transmission" works?
And the Ford Model T. But instead of two brake shoes for the gears, a Prius uses two motor generators that makes it a "series parallel" eCVT
cars CVT use a metal strap and conical pulley with centrifugal control. they might be hydroponically controlled, but its the same as a scooter. shorts/jKkaq1yvuZU
Yes it is :-) lovely how everybody hates the Prius in 2000-2010. I always was big fan of what they made. If you explain it to normal people without saying it was in that ugly hybrid it's amazing to see how every body reacts now: put in in a f1 ,make a patent. Use it in hybrids ect :-D
is it? - that's cool to know - it means i am not thinking crazy lol - thanks for that mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering it isnt. i had linked a video and explained it, but it was censored by youtube. basically a prius has a scooter transmission, its two conical pulled and a metal belt.
Thus is totally AMAZING!
You are a GENIUS!!!
😮 👍👍👍 🧡
Thank you! Cheers!
Hey Robert, i hav a suggestion for a video id like to see. I see alot of people online using 'crisco' vegetable shortening to create extremely long burning candles. Like, 24 days straight from a single candle. Im wondering if your forever wick would work and how this could be used to create an emergency heater. Also, it would be interesting to see whether its efficient or perhaps just false economy. Id like to see that video!!
Thanks for the video. Such a pleasure to watch and to think about. Now, I'm wondering how many Sun, Planet, Ring gears one can fit or set up, like a fractal, within a master Sun, Planet, Ring gear system and what it would do or what use it could be.
There are Compound Planetary gear systems that use the outside of the ring gear as the sun for another set of planets and outer ring gear.
I think you can get extra high reduction ratios this way.
If you're taking some speed from the primary drive, and are using it to spin the output shaft backwards, doesnt it just spin the output shaft backwards.. without increasing the torque it produces? I would say it technically doesn't increase the gear ratio, but that's wrong because at the end.of the day the input would have spun a lot more If you're using some energy to spin the output shaft the wrong direction to make it do less circles. However same thing could be done if you just Intermittently disconnect the output shaft in general, And the input would have spun more.
So spinning the output shaft the wrong way only modulates the speed infinitely, it doesn't module the torque, because spinning the output backwards doesn't add any torque, just removes speed
5:17 that's a really cool demo of the principle
This would also allow a greater torque output during high wind so that extra current can be supplied and the extra energy can be harvested during high winds rather than waisted if brakes were to be used.
As it's been said, it is brilliant !
cheers mate
That video made clarity. Thanks for sharing the fun in building. DVD:)
cheers mate