2197 The Infinite CVT And Wind Turbine Control
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 มิ.ย. 2024
- You can find the STL files here www.thingiverse.com/thing:645...
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I cannot imagine how much time you spend 3d printing all the parts for these episodes. Lol. We appreciate you and all you do for us.
He can only be preparing two weeks in advance of his video posts . Not the night before.
cheers mate
The $ to print - not that much,
The time to design - a very long time
Ha, brilliant, clever and simple. Nice one Rob
I'd be happy to be a tenth as clever as this bloke, he never ceases to amaze me.
lol - cheers mate
You're selling yourself short.
Commercial wind turbines do it in the generator itself, not the gearbox, using what is called subsynchronous/super synchronous operation by using a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) to produce a variable rotating field in the rotor of the generator itself that shifts the generator's primary synchronous speed up or down from its static mechanical one.
No need for complex, heavy and expensive mechanical systems when a simple electrical solution already exists.
? explane i the demonstration video fire smoke and bits going everywhere then ?
@@dh2032 I don't know what you are referring to.
@@tcmtech7515 If you fully watched the video, you would see when he showed a clip of a wind turbine that burned up due to an overspeed condition. As great as electronics are, they are often more prone to failure than mechanical components, and despite you claiming it's "simple" it is very much not as simple as a set of gears and the simpler solutions are almost always more reliable. There's a reason wind turbines often have friction brakes and can feather, it's because using the generator as the sole speed regulator is just too risky; the generator is fine to use as a shock absorber to buffer sudden changes in turbine velocity, but only a complete fool would exclusively rely on it for speed control. If a permanent magnet breaks off (if one is used), a control board burns out, a ground fault in the electronics occurs, the coil insulation wears and shorts, etc you've got a potential runaway turbine. I'm glad people in aerospace figured out redundancy, because if they took your approach planes would be falling out of the sky regularly.
Wouldn't that just be for matching the grid frequency though? Whereas the demonstration in the video was using it to limit the maximum rotation speed of the generator to stop it from tearing itself apart. As far as I'm aware, commercial wind turbines don't use VFDs for that, they change the blade angle and apply the brakes, to avoid what you see at 6:50
@@vink6163 They use multiple systems to keep them under control.
The prius 2 used this planetary gearbox system with 2 electric motors on it and 1 combustion engine on it. Yes already in 2000 ;-).... But that prius 2 was so ugly !!!so i dont want to listen how incredible it was what they made;-) it was a real cvt no gear switching ect. You get pushed in your seat and it stays like that untill you take of your foot on the pedal. Still driving its 370k km 🎉 best investment in a car 😅
Also have a look at the combustion cycle of the prius 2:" Atkinson cycle" it make more work than a normal car by making the explosion stroke longer then the compression stroke.
nice - thanks for sharing mate
My new Sienna doesn’t have a tranny, but does have a planetary gear drive. So far nobody has been able to explain how it works or controlled.
The Prius still surprises me. Radical new drivetrain was a huge risk. Putting that new drivetrain in anything other than a conventional body shape seemed suicidal to me.
I’m a practical person and the drivetrain efficiency appealed to me. The long delay in upgrading the Prius to a plug in hybrid and increasing battery range cause many to look elsewhere.
Still a great car.
@@MatthewTaylorAu I have one of the original plug in Prius. The lack of battery range is its biggest drawback.
This is great. Thank you. I have genuinely needed something like this for a while. It solves so many little mechanical problems. Like a handcrank genrrator or even a small portable water wheel. So much potential.
cheers mate
@@ThinkingandTinkeringNo problem :D
This is an old design, a type of differential drive, that takes more energy than it can deliver. So it isn't useful for generators or vehicles. Note that any torque that's delivered requires the electric motor to work just as much as the engine.
@@canonicaltom That's ok. I want to use it for a robot. Agility is key in it's design. I will just use two similar motors and probably use it as an aux set of wheels so that it will only be used as needed.
@@memejeff Sounds like a great idea.
Although I wish I had you as my teacher in high school, being the very best.. I dropped maths etc., because I had horrible impatient teachers. Now I'm enjoying so much, how you show and explain. I admit I sometimes have to watch 2, 3 times before I 'get it'. Doesn't matter, even being 70 almost I dream of making little things and even understand what I'm making, all thanks to you!! ❤
Wow, thank you mate
If the education system focussed less on the myth of 'learning disabitliies" and instead tried fixing the many existing and much more obvious "teaching disbilities" such as impatience and outdated pedagogies, then perhaps it would fail far less students.
@@christopherd.winnan8701 True, but it also had to do with the time. It was 55 y. ago when this happened. I had no learning disabilities, the opposite was true. But I was a young girl, easily intimidated by Bully teachers, who didn't like to have girls in science or maths classes. I wanted to become a tropical agricultural engineer. Although I passed all exams, I still was refused entry, because 1 girl and 150 boys was not done. I went to uni, studied childpsychology (got my degree but really hated it). Went on studying Soc. Cult. Anthropology specialising in... Tropical Indiginous Farming methods, in Central America. Still annoyed it costed me so much time, to get where I wanted to be, if it weren't for those Bully teachers.. Now I'm retired, Permaculture small farmer, almost off grid, almost self-sufficient, learning so so much and wish I had learned much more of science when I was a teen. Well, it keeps my brain working...
I watch this too. My physics teacher pressed me to change subjects due to my math skills, (the dwawings, wiring and building were mostly ok). I had never taken maths as a subject because I thought it would be too difficult.
On the plus side maths for chemistry, I could do. Maybe because I could picture the reactions in my mind.
Pure maths is just too abstract!
yep - enter the planetary torque splitter - as seen in the Toyota Prius...
(teaching people the similarities between a differential and an epicyclical gear opens avenues.. All are 3 I/O gear-trains.)
NB. As used in oilfield work - with a hydraulic secondary, the fixed main prime mover speed allows for everything from full reverse through neutral and full forward without "affecting" available power...
It also allows a whole range of "low torque" - or even "lower efficiency / higher loss, CVT types to work on the low torque side to achieve nearly any outcome - with lower losses than using the CVT as the primary torque path...
However for idling a wind turbine - once we are dealing with complex systems - feathering and braked rotors are the other side of the "power" equation (generators still get overpowered - no matter the fangt gearing on the back end..
cheers for democratizing great feats of ingenuity. .
the prius has been using the two motor planetary gearset for 20 odd years now, one of the things I like most about it (see: prius power split device). the wheels and mg2(motor/generator) are connected to the ring gear, mg1 connects to the sun gear, and the ice(engine) connects to the planet carrier. It starts the engine, provides traction, and reverse, and generation/regeneration. Sometimes it even takes power from the ICE to generate from mg1 to power mg2, what we referred to as "heretical mode" as nobody in the peanut gallery thought it made sense, not unlike the faster than the wind downwind affair. fwiw using the mg to hold the shaft doesn't take a whole lot of power since rpm is zero (power = rpm * torque).
I'm not convinced it is a better fit for turbines than variable pitched blades however. And hopefully you will clarify that "it spins about the same rate" isn't because you have created a variable speed drive, but rather you have fixed the ratio of one input and therefore fixed the other, but it is about the same rate solely because it is a very low ratio, and would have the same problems and more once geared up for a generator. If you don't understand how fixing one input ratio fixes the other ratio, then you are well on your way to making free energy videos :)
huh, i was tempted to buy a prius a long time ago but put off by the cvt because i thought it was one of those gross belt type ones
Looking at it the opposite way and having one input you get a Differential (assuming the right choice of ratio) just like the rear axle of your car!
Truly interesting stuff to think about!
Once again .... Thanks mate!
nice comment - cheers mate
- and for fun, take a look at how spur-gear differentials work.. Another hybrid between epicycles (planetary gears) and regular spur gears - eliminating the bevels. Most interesting ways to retain the balanced shaft output without a final speed correction stage.
This can definitely stop wind turbines from blowing up actually. Excellent work!
cheers mate
fun fact: modern wind turbines use this principle already. But nevertheless, very nice explanation!
Absolutely brilliant design! Love the simplicity of the idler gear.
Doing some quick calculations, it unfortunately looks like this system still has a constant mechanical advantage. However, you can get some insanely low reductions as the thinner the ring gear, the less the output shaft rotates.
I was just going to say because it is made of simple meshing gears it has to be equivalent to a constant mechanical advantage
cheers mate
Yes, that's what I was thinking too. But you do increase the mechanical advantage by driving the ring gear from the same source relative to not driving it (each config is still constant but moving from one to the other does increase your advantage).
That's not a CVT but combine it with a one way ratchet and it's an interesting way to do a discrete transmission in a way which doesn't disconnect power to shift to a higher gear.
Brilliant! Now I see why I CAN'T stop watching your videos!!!!
Thank you for taking the time to think and tinker, discovering BEAUTIFUL ideas!
Amazing, just stumbled on your videos and thingyverse files. Learning a lot in just one day. 🙏
Fantastic. I really enjoyed that. Your enthusiasm is infectious 😎👍
Another WOW! - curiously brilliant perception, complex yet simple, and all rolled into one, with real application. Well done yet again. (PS hoping 2170 weird machine grabs your further interest.)
Awesome! Thank you!- and i do like that motor
Nice work Rob!!! Brilliant thinking as per usual ✌️ Thanks for sharing!
Oh this is brilliant Robert! Mechanical feedback speed controller/governor. Awesome! 👍 Cheers!
Proof that the Sun and planets are flat and not sphere's! 🤣😂🤣 Another great video. Thanks very much Robert!
Such a pleasure to watch your content. Your knowledge base always amazes me. Thank You!!
So neat how you think and solve similiar upcoming problems that I have been thinking about as well. Gj.
You never cease to amaze, Rob. So cool.
lol - cheers mate
A while back, I sketched something like this, the difference being it used a differential instead of planetary gears. You setup is just as interesting.
Neat set up. With two ring gears setups and the idler in the centre, I think you could use them to drive tracks on each side of a track vehicle. By driving the idler gear you could add rpm to one side and subtract rpm equally on the other side. At a stand still it would rotate the 0:15 track vehicle. You just solved the need for two trans missions in a tank!
You'll be pleased to know that that approach has been invented and commercialized. Caterpillar introduced differential steering with their D8N bulldozer amongst others. Works well!
@@frontagulus O Dang! And here I was all impressed, when I got on a backhoe with JOYSTICKS!
that's cool - nice idea cheers mate
Congratulations, Rob, great job!
Brilliance and enthusiasm. What a great combination!
Excellent, thanks for the brilliant idea and demo. As usual!
Loving this Rob! I had a thought, yes it would work great in a turbine but it would be brilliant in a simple gravity battery build. Biggest problem with gravity battery setups that I have worked with is a braking mechanism so as to not overheat the resistive load. Dump the excessive current into your feedback and problem solved. You turning your gears got my gears(in my head) moving LOL! That could be dangerous if I were to believe what those around me tell me. Thanks again!
Amazing Idea, to fit a feedback system in the gear itself.
Thank You for this video!
Wonderful.
Thank you for your designs and for sharing them.
You have a gift talking for complex things with great simplicity. Thanks.
always informative ideas to explore!
Glad you like them!
Thanks for continuing to make videos!
You are one smart cookie, brilliant demonstration
Man,... that's absolutely BRILLIANT I think. I'd love use that design in the gearbox of an ebike! ... Just totally ingenious.
I have loved gears since high school and I still love today at 59. And now a days we can 3d print them. Who said it can't been. Great Vid, Thank you 👍
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the rotational speed of wind turbines is not dependent on wind speed but is controlled by alrering the pitch of the blades - much the same pricipal as applied on many propeller driven aircraft.
Of course, the reason you want to limit the blade speed is not just so you don't blow up the generator; you also want to keep the blades firmly attached to the hub. The faster they spin, the stronger the forces that want to rip them off.
I don't understand the use of the idle gear at the end. Are you saying that introducing that idle gear ends up with a non-linear relationship between input and output speed? I just can't wrap my head around how that could be possible whilst still delivering torque. If input/output is still a linear relationship, what's the actual benefit of this setup?
I think I'm missing something here.
The idle gear is just to reverse the rotation of the feedback component, he's adding negative feedback to limit the speed of the output. If the feedback was positive, the whole thing would runaway in seconds and explode.
@@altair7001 I think the key part of my question is the 'non-linear' thing. If the feedback is linear, then it's subtraction from the final speed would also be linear no?
@@ashedtogether OK I get what you mean. Personally I don't see how this could produce a non-linear relationship between input & output if everything is geared together. There would have to be some external input that is independent from the rest. I would like to experiment with this to find what is the response of this actual setup presented here. Very intriguing!
I think that the geared feedback loop changes the slope of input speed vs output speed, as seen on a graph. The response is linear, but the slope is shallower than the 45 degree slope we would see if the input was connected directly to the output. But to get a real speed control, which would give on the graph, a rising slope that flattens out at some speed and then remains flat, I think that some independent input is necessary.
@@altair7001 Likewise. I've a feeling though that the idle gear addition probably doesn't actually bring anything useful to the table, but I do think there could be some really interesting applications for the setup without. I'm sure you could make a kind of dynamic gear box and I can see that being potentially very useful for electric motor driven systems to maximise torque efficiency at different output speeds.
[edit] about slope though, isn't that just generic gear ratio?
Nice work and good explanation Robert, I’m one of your subscribers now.
❤ Fantastic Idea 💡👍
I'm just about to ask and you start explaining Exactly what I was going to ask,Lol 😆
Idle gearing system is the Answer to my Question!!
You have So Much Fun, Robert I suspect this is not "Work" Lol!😎👍👍
(If you find a job you enjoy,, you never work again,, I've no idea who 1st said this but it's So True!!)
oh wow - glad i could help
Something doesn't quite make sense in my mind. If the output is a constant speed as you speed up the input, it should also be constant as you slow down the input. But if you slow the input until it reaches 0 RPM, the output must slow down to 0 RPM as well. How linear is the ratio of input to output speed?
yeah its not possible - another thing that shows this is that if you took a video of it working and sped the video up 2x, both the input gear and output gear would appear to speed up 2X. it looks like it works but it can't be working like he's saying
So I think if you work out the maths of the gear ratios involved in this setup (and any similar setup), it all ends up as an equivalent linear gear with a very large gear ratio. This is why the speed doesn't appear to change
I want this in hybrid cars. The simplicity of mechanics of this is actually out of this world
It's in a prius
It’s literally all Toyota hybrids. Prius, Crown, Camry Hybrid, anything with a blue-tint Toyota badge has this inside it.
Some Aircraft use a constant speed drive unit (CSDU) to drive a generator at a precise frequency needed for the avionics systems, E-CVT in a Mitsubishi hybrid is also similar to the Toyota.
Ford, Toyota and Chrysler all use it. Been around for decades.
apparently it already is!
How fantastic! I've never seen anything like it. Thanks very much for the video!
You have been so much inspiration for tech that will change the world.... And I do appreciate the finer points of mechanical systems... But the best thing to do is eliminate the biggest sin of any mechanical system: friction.
Intricate Food for thought.
The makings of a self governing speed ratio without sensors and additional/external control structures are highly viable in many situations.
Thus is totally AMAZING!
You are a GENIUS!!!
😮 👍👍👍 🧡
Thank you! Cheers!
Now lets test it in an F1!!!
HAAS should try anything at this point.
It is a great idea, and functional. It basically works and can be clearly calculated. Obviously it would require 10-20 years tweeking to go main stream as inventions usually do, but he always is on the education side of things and has a great attitude.
Haha 😂 it's in a Prius ;-)
Prius 2 that is 2003-2009. Amazing isn't it :-p that was a f1 car!
@@VinokDesign Interesting!. Would love to own one of those devices! The transmission that is.
That is awesome!! I love mechanical solutions to things that I can only imagine electronics doing
Very interesting. It feels like the gear equivalent of a pressure bypass valve on a pump, the higher the pressure the more the bypass opens to maintain pressure at the set point. Or negative feedback on an amplifier to tame the massive gain of a transistor.
Great point!
This is just brilliant, thanks for sharing.
Thank you! Cheers!
That video made clarity. Thanks for sharing the fun in building. DVD:)
cheers mate
Thant is brilliant indeed. The only problem I see is that of startup. The generator needs aprox. 3500 rpm. If the wind is light then you need a huge input torque to get it started as the constant speed will try to start the generator at 3500 RPM. It would make more sense to use the electric motor input controlled by a micro controller with wind speed and torque sensor to achieve a smooth controlled startup. Love the content. I'm sure this compact variable speed transmission will be a huge hit in the years to come.
Brilliant! simply amazing.
This reminds me of the differential steering mechanism used in tanks. Interesting idea to apply it to wind turbines.
cheers mate
not a new idea but a demonstration of the gearing of modern wind turbines.
Nice one, that is extremely progressive. A great job for this ingenious presentation. Thanks a lot for adding to know how
Looks brilliant!
Wonderful idea, truly genius!
Thank you very much!
Oh, I like TH-cam algorithms sometimes! Suddenly it promoted me your videos and your channel. Already subscribed 👍🏻
This is very clever. Good on you!
It's inspiring, thank you!!
cool! If you like gear mechanisms, have a look at the traverse gearbox for a tank. They use two motors running at constant speed in different directions both coupled via clutches and gears to the turret gear. The clutches use some type of ferrous powder inside. A electromagnet is used to make the powder more or less dense and thus vary the clutch transfer. Its pretty neat. (This is used on stuff from the 60's). No speed control required, just different levels of power going into the electromagnets.
Definitely useful for a fly wheel. For a fly wheel you might want to be able to speed up the output instead of keep it constant that way if the fly wheel is spinning fast you can still add energy to it.
that's a god thought - thank you for sharing that idea
Connect the ring gear to the flywheel.
Some city buses do in fact use a flywheel and variable mechanical drive to store energy from braking for acceleration.
This is an amazing invention
Ingenious ideas good sir, wondering instead of having the constant drag from idler gear if there could be a vane and sail mechanism add to only engage the external ring gear when a certain rpm is met. Of course, we could install a tach on the idler gear but looking for something that could be engaged with mechanical means versus using energy to engage. Either way amazing video and great presentation of an cvt/evct.
He just can’t stop improving!
That's a great idea to keep the generator part constant, all you need now is a way to limit turbine speed in high winds so the whole thing doesn't disintegrate like in the clip where the wings fly off due to centrifugal force.
Just reverse the input to output , and you can have a constant speed air foil.
Ideally, I suppose, you’d use the feedback to control the pitch of the turbine blades in order to control the speed of the turbine as well. This video is food for thought.
This is so cool, please make a wind or water turbine demonstration!
Cool idea with the mechanical feedback loop
I greatly enjoyed the video taught me heaps. buying 3d printer next bc i watched this video.
awesome mate
As it's been said, it is brilliant !
cheers mate
To make the compound gear assembly super precise, especially, without doing a whole lot of math, put a double cone clutch on it to alter your feedback rotor, and this can be controlled by either a centrifugal governor, or a hydraulic flow resistance governor.
Hey! That gearset that keeps the output speed close to the same speed for any speed of input works like an automatic gain control (AGC) circuit! The idle gear is the resistor in the feedback loop that sets the feedback level. Your current version with equal gears looks like a feedback loop that puts the output back in without reducing it. I also see some similarity to a phase locked loop (PLL) circuit as well. I wonder if other useful circuits could be made of gears. For instance, a zero volt switch (ZVS) circuit could be reproduced as a clutch that only engages when the input shaft is not moving.
Intresting thoughts tou have, somewhere on YT is Analog wooden computer. Gearing and latches were arranged together, antikythera device like. That clutch, think about Weights and Gyroscopic precession force and gearing.
Bicycle back in the day tried a Automatic Shifter, levers and weights effectively shifting by Gyroscopic force. The faster speed, greater force on, orbiting lever(s) to gearing. Don't think this bike with shifter exists today, but I think it's not a bad idea using gyroscope's to act as switches.
Brilliant indeed! It would have been great to have seen it operate with a fixed input source, e.g. power drill, for direct comparison.
You need to collaborate with Rutland wind turbines!!
if they are interested they are welcome to it
primary thing that comes to mind for me, would be that this should be resulting in better torq at output as well, so if put out to an at the rim generator of 3-5 times the size and maybe instead of a direct idle, maybe something that curves the increase, which should allow the better torq thru more easily perhaps. This and a centripetal governor flywheel, and you have peak leveling as soon as you tune all this to go at the right time.
I would think so
Brilliant thinking !
cheers mate
Hey Robert, i hav a suggestion for a video id like to see. I see alot of people online using 'crisco' vegetable shortening to create extremely long burning candles. Like, 24 days straight from a single candle. Im wondering if your forever wick would work and how this could be used to create an emergency heater. Also, it would be interesting to see whether its efficient or perhaps just false economy. Id like to see that video!!
Very interesting, thank you.
Curiosity:
I wonder what would happen if you swapped the input and output? Would you have a self-regulating CVT that usefully varied it's output speed as a function of input torque and speed..?
Thanks for the video. Such a pleasure to watch and to think about. Now, I'm wondering how many Sun, Planet, Ring gears one can fit or set up, like a fractal, within a master Sun, Planet, Ring gear system and what it would do or what use it could be.
There are Compound Planetary gear systems that use the outside of the ring gear as the sun for another set of planets and outer ring gear.
I think you can get extra high reduction ratios this way.
Brilliant!! Rob
cheers mate
This would also allow a greater torque output during high wind so that extra current can be supplied and the extra energy can be harvested during high winds rather than waisted if brakes were to be used.
Marvellous video. Thanks for making it.
What about taking it a step further with generators that utilise all the available torque and turn it into increased current availability during stronger winds? Or is that already a thing? :)
Genius, indeed :) Thank you very much for all your work, sir! The question that arises for me is, what is the impact of this rotational regulation on the output torque?
Ur so smart Mr Robert every mind blowing video U ROK
You should probably look at how Toyota did the eCVT on my Hybrid Camry, it is similar to what you printed but uses 2 electric motor/generators to get an infinite gear ratio, you could easily replace the hybrid battery with a Capacitor to make a DIY CVT.
Most modern wind turbines pivot the blades to slow the spin rate down, the ones I worked on you can actually reverse the pivot on the blades to act as a brake slowing the revolutions to avoid over-spin. I have worked on them with zero rotation in gale force winds.
And now i understand how that gear system finally works. I have been wondering for years how planetary gear systems worked and why they were called that. Never could find a simple explanation until now.
I love this. will like to know if this type of gearing is used in watches since we want the time to be constant
Interesting, however couldn't follow the bit where you talked about the feedback path. But... don't wind turbines run at synchronous speed and change the blades' pitch to control the power being collected fromn the passing wind?
This is really thought-provoking... Making me wonder if the same (or better) could also be achieved with magnet gears...? For wind turbines though, we want to reduce slow speed by relatively little and yet reduce high speed to a greater degree... which is where a 'feedback' controlled CVT sounds really interesting.
Good question. Magnetic planetary gears?
5:17 that's a really cool demo of the principle
Mmm, very interesting mechanism, I am sure there is an application for it somewhere, and understand where your coming from, but wouldn't it be better to alter the pitch of the blades to control the speed of the turbine blades. Or am I missing something here ?
PS what happens to the input shaft if you drive the output shaft
Do you know that the Rav4 Hybrid works in a similar way ? They use an 8KW motor between the wheels and the engine. The relative sincronization in terms of rpms generates the ratio
Brilliant !
I've found out that prime factors are very useful when dealing with gear train ratios. ;)
Dear Robert, can you valutate the efficiency of you CVT? That' a double input gear box right? How much energy do you need for the electric controller for a 50Kw engine?
You can (probably) take this a step further. I came up with a similar idea about a year ago and spent quite some time developing it. Instead of using an idle gear you mesh two planetary gear sets together. The result is a system that self balances based on torque. The gear ratio changes if input torque does not balance with required load. In essence a CVT that can control itself.
Diagrams would be easier to read but in words: 2 planetary gear sets pancaked together. Input is planet carrier 1, output is planet carrier 2, sun gears are different sizes but axially one solid one part. Ring gears connect through a third planetary idler gear (held in place) that essentially flips the direction of rotation from ring 1 to ring 2. This forms a feed back loop in the system that shifts the speed of components based on torque imbalance between input and load thus shifting gear ratios without need for external control, clutches, or motors.
I would be very interested in seeing you test this idea, hopefully you find it interesting as well.
I am impressed, ... and it is very rare event. GTL!
Brilliant!!
Hi Robert i love your videos and great idea. I've been thinking about a gearbox that can be hooked to an engine and ran forward and reverse smoothly using just the one input and very the rpm of the engine for speed a little different animal but similar. Kinda similar as your video with the engine but minus the electric motor it would be a great alternative to hydrostatic drive system. Keep up the good work 👍🏻