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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ค. 2023
- Contactless, gearless, silent, lubrication-free axial-flux magnetic gearbox-transmission through permanent magnets(PM). This is actually very similar to axial flux motors, except that there is a flux modulator between the permanent magnet rotors, and that creates a gear ratio between them.
Unlike my previous radial-flux magnetic gearbox, in this axial-flux gearless magnetic gearbox, the interaction of permanent magnets takes place in an axial parallel way, not in the radial direction. And the main reason for designing this axial flux version was the thought that I could achieve tighter tolerances with 3D printed parts than the radial one, so by modifying the modulator or reducing the air gap between the magnets, I was able to significantly increase the torque capacity of this axial flux contactless magnetic gearbox.
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www.thingiverse.com/thing:613... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Interesting fact: neodymium magnets are not indestructible, the heat generated in the eddy curent destroys them
If you care to eliminate this, replace the large magnets with many small magnets separated by thin insulating films. Same thing is done in transformers to limit power transmission losses
You know, that's actually a good thing to know When using magnets in any project I never would have thought about that, but that's actually a very valid idea
Try mounting magnets with hot glue. Then wondering why Hall sensors don't work anymore.
Heat above its working temp will lower the magnetic properties but you can get upwards of 100+c for N grade magnets. The shape and dimensions of a magnet play an important role in its working temperature, a high permeance coefficient will help combat heat degradation
@@tomascancelliere4348 What other kinds of geometric shapes are available? Any that might specifically improve performance?
If you wish to avoid the frictional heating of the rotor bearings, you can use two nested bearings. in theory the bearing with less mechanical advantage will be driven faster than the other bearing, but if the two bearings are magnetically geared together in a two to one ratio, then the load is equally shared, and the theoretical top speed is doubled, before the bearings become too hot.
This is an awesome idea and such an underrated comment!
Maybe replace the bearings with Magnetic Bearings
You can use diamond bearings from US signetics. They withstand high heat and pressure
the rotor itself can be part of passive cooling, if made of aluminium, finlets along the rim and slots
@@getl0st That would introduce way too much eddy current, probably overheating the bearings and demagnetizing them way quicker than mechanical ones.
The way that you made the magnetic gear reduction is GENIUS!
If you place a high permeability metal on the outside faces to couple the magnets together you should be able to almost double the flux inside the gearbox. Inspect how cabinet door latches or speaker voice coil magnets are arranged with metal plates to focus the magnetic flux.
You mean the back iron? You'll probably see them in the optimised version.
@@retsetman9698have you considered 3d printing some parts with filament which has iron powder mixed into it?
@@kingarthurthe5th I had completely forgotten about it until you said it, I'll see if I can use it.
Look up halbach arrays
Wahhhhhh this is some cool stuff! Thank you for this comment! :)
You should use self tightening nuts, that way the vibration will not unscrew the tightening screws. Great video.
Or blue loctite
@@joshuacaylor881or counter clockwise thread, like in many applications of this type
thats how bike pedals stay on :), love reverse thread stuff, but I see stuff backwards so when looking at threads, it takes me forever to see if its LH, or RH lol.@@vipvip-tf9rw
stover nuts would work best.
Self what?
If you add thin steel behind each magnet, you can nearly double the pull strength. This is an awesome video btw!!
Or hallbach array shape
still doesn't fix all the drawbacks to make it actually worth using over existing linkages, otherwise it would be.
@74KU it's useful in extreme applications
@@74KU There are things you can do with magnetic linkages that you simply cannot do with a mechanical ones.
One example: transmitting torque through a solid, unbroken sheet of metal. Could be super useful for ultra-high-pressure, high-reliability, and/or hazardous substances applications, where traditional shaft seals can't handle the pressure or where you cannot afford to have any leakage whatsoever under any circumstances. Niche applications like that can still be extremely important.
Ooh, I need to know more about this configuration for an iPad mount application. I’m worried my magnets will have too big of a gap (~2.5 mm) and will lose too much of their pull to be effective. By “behind” I’m understanding that to mean the far side from the other magnet, correct?
Of all the magnetic gearbox videos on youtube, this is one of them!
it really is!
Profound
This concept was actually built in 1918 it was sold as the transmission you didn't need to shift, Stahl auto museum has one in Michigan
Why it's not used in cars?
@@Autarkethe transfer of torque is probably less than current mechanical systems, otherwise we'd be using it now, the advantage is there's no need for a clutch plate, if they can develop more powerful magnets that could connect the engine to the transmission like a normal one without the loss of torque, then it's the future
No- this will not work when you get to serious torque figures it will not be able to cope. This has been thought of before- and before both of us were alive. It is the basis of the fluid coupling alias the torque converter- which itself is based from Parson's steam turbine driving sympathetically rotating generator via the working fluid of dry steam, no parts touching (and similarly Rover's JETONE turbine car 1948)
There is not so much friction, but I bet there's hysteresis and eddy current loss, especially when the drivetrain is loaded. I'd love to see a quantitative comparison between a gearbox.
A geared gearbox of this size can pull a car at least
@@davidgfbrMaybe, but I would need a couple more pieces of data to say whether or not agree with you. The phenomena I mentioned are velocity-dependent like friction, but not linear like friction.
F1 or Lemans would already be using this if it was actually useful irl.
@@briankale5977this cannot transmit any meaningfull amount of torque so it's pretty much useless in the real world.
Did anyone else see the nuts cycle through loosening then tightening over & over? Would love to see the forces pulsating back & forth to do that. Great vid & love the outside box thinking. Cheers.
Great job as a retired mechanic I love the way you approach gear reduction
Some audio feedback: Your voice has a stronger low-end than its high-end, but you articulate your words with mainly the high-end, this makes for a more difficult listening experience. I suggest an EQ to cut the low mids, boost the high mids and maybe also play around with the highs to make it sound less nasal.
If this is also how you sound without a mic, you might to play with how/where you articulate your words to better engage live audiences.
That's all, I hope it's helpful!
Honestly, thank you so much, I will pay attention to that.
@@retsetman9698 I'd say a basic de-esser, low shelf, and compressor would be ideal, if you're into that kind of thing. Otherwise, put a thick cloth/foam over your microphone, and record a bit closer to it, facing your breath away from it.
Awesome video btw :D I didn't think the audio was distracting at all, personally. I hadn't seen how magnetic gearing works before, and it seems very elegant.
Excellent work as expected! Keep it up and thanks for sharing!
Highly appreciate this teaching videos Richard. Keep it up!!!👍
You are going to do big things my friend. Excellent work
Awesome investigation of magnetic forces!
Absolutely wonderful. Very methodically done
Very cool! I never would have guessed the interactions between the groups and number of magnets in the group like that.
This kind of motors/transmission is very common in industrial applications
very generous and open heart in your patience and your delivery. refreshing scientist-tinkerer channel. and you saved the best for very last.
Have a look at particle clutches. They have two cup shaped ends the the in and output shafts, one cup sits inside the other. A soft iron powder is placed inside the cups. There is then a coil that wraps around the outside of both cups, vary the current on the coil which then varies the drive torque through the coupling. They also allow for slip if the torque level is required is exceeded.
There are no such thing as "particle clutches" you are talking about the 1900's electromagnetic clutch with a syncromesh. Syncromesh which uses bronze pre-load conical bearings to take the initial force from the driven gear to the selected gear on the gear drive- enabling smooth shifting and far less stress on gears- enabling quieter, smoother herringbone teeth, vs straight cut teeth. Not new.
Not saying you're wrong, but Wikipedia shows me Magnetic Particle Clutch, which is "a special type of electromagnetic clutch" and does indeed have "a fine powder of magnetically susceptible material to mechanically link ... a disc on one shaft to a rotor attached to the other shaft".
Very neat idea for low torque applications. There is a limit to how strong this can be with permanent magnets.
Torque was my first idea as well.
Yeah, anything too strong will make them slip like cartoon characters on a banana peel. Also LOL at "You can't break these gears".
@@EldeNice they wont break when a load is applied, its true
Could be interesting in machining
Did you know, older tractors use to use a version of this on the pto to isolate the tractor from hammering of machinery. It was only largr ceramic magnets on one side, and a thick copper disk bolted to a steel one on the output. The magnets would apparently drag the copper around as it setup currents that resist the magnetic charge change.
Brilliant! Thank you Retsetman for sharing this video on Magnetic Transmission. Greetings from Madang, Papua new Guinea!
I was playing with this idea 40 years ago, glad you made it right , you got it is just a mater of the right metal to mass produce, congratulations.
Very cool! A more advance setup would be to alter the polarity electrically to get whatever gear ratio you want. Very nice!
Yeah, but he would need to change his setup to make the center piece rotate to incorporate electromagnets in his design
That would basically be an electric motor xD
as an alternative magnets on the secondary wheel could be rotated physically in the slot
Thanks for the insights! I will build one and use it on my project.
i envisioned something like this around 2005 and never pursued it, this is really interesting to see
This absolutely so cool and amazing, please keep going with this concept. I love it so much. I wanna see this used in car or other applications.
This idea is old. An American Car (built in the 1950's) had a Magnetic Transmission. Sorry, but I cannot remember the make of car.
@@peterduxbury927it was the Owen Magnetic, made around the time of the First World War. Jay Leno has one.
@@chrishenniker5944 YES! Thanks for that. I knew that I had seen this somewhere. It is old technology that didn't take off due to inefficiency.
It will never be used for any practical applications, this is just useless, but all these videos are full of engineer wannabes calling any old and useless tech “revolutionary”. “Stirling engines are the future!” “Tesla towers will power the world!!!” 🥴 🥴
Its an old idea that couldn't do any actual work then, just like it can't now.
Brilliant!
Thanks Cody!!!!
i used one of these on my capstone project for mechanical engineering technology. My team and I built a velocity head hydro-turbine but found rotary shaft seals difficult for the generator which was under water (an connected to the turbine). Solved all our problems and worked great!
Obviously your university has less than stringent standards- why on earth would you have an immersed generator- how the hell is that 1 supposed to function, 2 be maintained?
@@markiobook8639underwater currents?
Just like we maintain underwater pipes and oil infrastructure?
It's really beautiful work ! Subscribed!
Please consider making the design easly to stack a few of those in series. Also would love to see you add some coils like Robbert Murrey does and make a diy/emergency generator, preferably in gravity-light style, where the system should be stack a few layers to achieve higher loads and max torque , so a heavy weights can out strung high from the ceiling, with big reduction, providing more watt and also a slow and long decent so the cycle time is as large as possible, and therefore the most watt-hours between every pull up and reset of the weight.
Thanks a lot and all the best !
all of what you said are great video ideas and definitely worth a try. Thank you so much for the good wishes
That what also be very good for slowly turning a large solar array. Have you made any estimates for this kind of thing?
@@retsetman9698thanks for responding :) let me know if any of what I suggested stayed with you.. really hope to see it happen 💜
This is insanely cool, and to think that I could do that at home with what I have makes me really happy inside, even though I won't try it any time soon.
Keep up the amazing work!
absolutely fantastic work!
Interesting topic! To increase torque and magnetic flux even more you can add back-iron behind magnets. Back-iron is very common for axial flux motors.
That looks like a fun project. Interesting measurements of the forces after certain changes were in the video. As a side note or two: I wish people would stop treating permanent magnets like they're actually permanent. Also, the title says you cannot break these gears, but the video shows sparks and magnets flying off. Might want to redesign the housing for the magnets so they cannot possibly fly off.
It also has the torque of a 90 year old grandmother with osteoporosis that's why it's not widely adopted.
This is the most important question to start with, why isn't it already adopted. Makes such videos obsolete.
@@bobdebouwer7835 Many of these videos are made for clicks and views, not for the actual information they provide.
"You Can't Break These Gears"
Goes on and breaks his gears 5 times in the video :D
Speed be like 🦁
Torque be like 😸
interesting idea though i think that the amount of torq transfered will be reduced a lot , you can stop the drive and the drivemotor will only be loaded down not stopped like with gears
Another new high quality channel, glad i have subscribed. If you were to make any more improvements, trying out lots of designs and doing research, its a delight to watch
I seriously love science, this is the coolest stuff ever. Need one of these for a electric mtb transmission.
So interesting, I've never heard of this magnetic gearing method before.
Physicists: magnetic forces can do no work because they're always applied perpendicular to the velocity vector as described by Lorentz
This guy: hold my beer
amazing stuff. makes me wonder just how difficult it would be to do this with electromagnets. then the torque could be varied and possibly have a device that works as both a clutch and gearbox. triggers a bunch of other ideas in my head. good work!
Yeah but that's be real expensive and complicated, at that point it wouldn't be worth it. Only expensive cars would go for something like that, but a practical reasonably affordable car wouldn't have it.
All real Cars are expensive
I think that would be called electric motor.
@@fulconandroadcone9488 Indeed. Prius had that for more than 2 decades!
@@fulconandroadcone9488 umm not really smarta$$.. what i'm thinking of wouldnt provide the drive power itself, would work as i said, as both a clutch and gearbox for another source of drive power. the torque it allows through could be varied. maybe more of a variable torque limiter
Si olvidas un poco las impresiones 3D, y haces las partes en aluminio o latón mecanizado, la eficiencia y el rendimiento de todo el conjunto aumentará considerablemente. No olvides colocar pantallas de Mumetal en la parte posterior de los imanes, esto refleja los campos magnéticos y así aumentando la fuerza magnética. Este tipo de metal lo puedes encontrar en los antiguos discos duros de computadora.
Wow, I was just thinking of building something like this as an actuator in a humanoid robot! Good work.
very awesome how much the gearbox has progressed, n52 magnets will be a serious upgrade. And also what if you add a third layer of magnets on the back as well?
adding magnets will of course increase the torque, but at some point you will have to consider the weight.
@@retsetman9698 true but maybe weight can also be useful? ala flywheel effect
I think this is really incredible engineering! My advice to you is that the space between the magnets should be decreased ... probably almost touching when "hot" so that if it gets hot, it doesn't stall. You will probably need a better material to handle those tolerances. But, I think the improvement in torque will be much better if the space is decreased even further.
Could you explain just a little more about how you managed to "smooth" the cogging effect?
If this concept does any serious work, it will get very hot.
@@peterduxbury927 Hmm, hard to say for sure how much heat tho. I am definitely interested in more tests!
@@marcfruchtman9473 I have had past experiences with this transmission. On a very powerful 37kW Unit, the temps approached 450C, and were capable of warping the components. There is also a huge loss in efficiency.
@@peterduxbury927 i have seen pumps with magnetic coupling, because of one single magnet unit it does not produce much heat, when many magnets and have slippage the heat is very high.
Genious. Thank You For Uploading This
Made one like this 20 years ago. Interesting but full of practical isssues with torque
I really wonder how much better this could be with non 3D printed/higher quality parts. I noticed a lot of wobble at high speeds and I bet that better manufactoring methods could let you drastically decrease the air gap and unwanted vibrations at high rpm. Maybe larger iron pieces too.
I wonder about that too, though it's obviously going to get a lot better. Hopefully I will make a new one with metal parts soon.
Adding iron or steel discs/plates could play havoc magnetic fields, all metals/alloys suffer from a degree eddy current effect but ferris more so .
I know it would be astronomically more difficult with the tools you have but if you could figure out a maglev bearing to replace those standard ball bearings the results would be very interesting
maglev bearings will only tolerate certain weights, they will not tolerate serious working condition loads. Even air bearings have their limitations.
@@markiobook8639 Might want to look into these large commercial flywheel batteries then. Spinning massive weights between 10k -100k rpm If this isn't serious workload what is?
Different form of maglev bearing is the high speed trains.
MagLev is not a bearing. It's a form of propulsion. If you are unable to comprehend that and that it requires far more energy than a conventional high-speed French TGV or ICE and the Germans' ICE being pioneers of air bearings and magnetic bearings- were forced virtue of forces involved use conventional needle bearings, then basic engineering is beyond you. Secondly flywheels are not massive if they rotate at 100k rpm- that defies near all known materials shear strength- they are instead tall and cylindrical- thus if Torque= FxD D is deliberately kept short. High speed is to offset flywheel lack of torque as torque is a function of speed and speed a function of torque hence F1 engines rev enormously high rpm with very short stroke and larger bore.@@WhatTrigger
@markiobook8639 oh boy my favorite kind of 'dumbass'... the arrogant kind... smh... "maglev is propulsion"... indeed... and what exactly do you think happens when the direction of travel is changed and a secondary field is in place..? Lmao... it becomes a rotational force... omg... who would have thought... now stfu and apologize for being such an arrogant prick...
this is amazing, I would love to play around with this as I love playing with magnets, * never did myself but taking a part a airpod charger box has a lot of magnets
This one actually made me subscribe, impressive.
Subscribe for N52 magnets!!!
Have you considered using a Halbach array for the magnet array? Halbach arrays double the field strength on one side of the array and cancel it out on the other. Supposedly they are perfect for applications like this, but they require more magnets.
4:10 The vibrations from the assembly caused the nut securing the case to fall into it. Go back to 3:15 to see the nut and screw just vibrate loose. Could try a bit of hot glue or school glue to hold it for a bit. Easy to remove when changing things around.
subscribed and cant wait to work with magnetic gears
Ok I suscribed. N52 magnets GOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Just did before this comment :)
We have just been waiting for the one that actually runs longer than a minute. Now we can collaborate and improve on these
this is so cool. Great work!
This is a fascinating experiment I subscribed hoping to see the things you can do with N52 magnets! I hope lots of other first time visitors will subscribe too as this kind of tinkering makes people think in creative ways. ❤ and respect for this channel!🙏
Genius! I've always wondered if something like this would work with magnetic power 🔋
If you manage to use this setup on a bike with the gear chain you would have a relatively nice ebike. Amazing stuff btw.
We have a large version of this on a lumber sorter, 40hp 3ph motor driving it.
Simply gorgeous concept
This was great to watch. Also, many knowledgeable comments...
Thanks a lot
I frikkin love your videos!
Amazing work!! I don’t understand even half of what’s going on but hope that your awesome idea can be commercialized.
love it, great idea and i hope you keep improving your gear box
ive always wanted to use magnets as a recoil buffer for a fire arm action this give me hope i can
"No Contact. No Wear. No Lube." Sounds like my personal life.
you are awesome! very well explained!
Es una excelente aportación
Saludos de mecatrónic 🇲🇽
That is great! Since the weakest point is the 3D printed part (bearing heating) and the air gap, nylon would be a better choice, a 'real' shaft also. But it is cheap, adaptable, overall a great instructive video!
I can see screws turning loose (3:20 min) while turning under high speed/power. Thank you for the presentation.
Title: You can't break these gears.
First 10 seconds of the video: breaks these gears.
Nice video, well done, thanks for sharing :)
Liked, such an awesome concept!
title: "you cant break theses gears" video: immediately almost loses eye
My grandpa made one of these quite similar in the 80s still have a vhs tale somewhere in his attic of it changing 6 gears and getting up to 7k rpm which is crazy for the time
with zero torque transfer ability
No contact
No wear
No Lube
Aaaaaaaaaand
NO TORQUE
😂😂😂
Magnetic clutches are used in a lot of things that need mechanical isolation as well as environmental isolation. The most common use is in automobile air conditioning compressors. I have seen them in exceimer gas lasers for the gas recirculating blower and in submersible water pumps rated for deeper than 200 feet. They tend to use electromagnets unless very light duty. Also ceramic ferrite magnets with iron pole pieces are used in the pm variety because they can take the heat if the clutch slips.
I was under the impression that the electromagnetic portion for an AC compressor was just a way of engaging the physical connection of normal clutch plates. Instead of using springs and some physical actuator they just flip an electromagnet on and it forces the clutch together.
It just uses normal friction plates. This is a bit different.
Actually nice concept for low power devices, like bikes, scooters, electric drones, large toys.
This is so cool! Thank you!
You could probably build that into an axial motor for built-in down gearing. Incidentally, are you using a metal backing plate for your magnets? Even a thin sheet DOUBLES the effective thickness of the magnets while adding very little weight. It gives a similar effect to Halbach arrays, but it's mechanically self-stable.
Really Awesome work ! Thanks for sharing.
Unbreakable gears - proceeds to see the transmission unscrew itself.
Gearless Magnetic Transmission - You Can't Break These Gears **PROCEEDS TO BREAK GEARS**
This was actually pretty cool.
Nice, I love this channel so much
The idea is interesting. Would guess the magnetic surface area would need to be fairly large for vehicle use.
A few years ago I heard some motorcycle companies were testing magnetic operating intake & exhaust valves by timed energized coils sucking open the valve. Don’t know what R&D results were.
so many back seat engineers and nothing to show..great video sir. keep em coming.
I can see you use in those motorized bike kits it’s always great when a TH-cam video makes you think and wanting to make something
wow such great research. keep up the fun learning videos
Halbach arrays and Flynn Parallel Path may provide further iterations.
You could use a Hallbach array on the reduced pole rotor and the magnetic coupling would be higher
I'm planning on using something like this in some space hardware I am designing at work.
If you can seal the magnets effectively, this kind of shaft coupling can be used to make a pump or other rotating machinery that does not have any dynamic seals, which reduces the chance for a leak during the machinery's service life greatly.
If you use a thrust bearing, you can use some very strong magnets, which allows for a higher max (possible) torque.
Yes, there are indeed magdrive pumps without dynamic seals in the industry and they are being used, I have this idea in mind, but I really need some really strong magnets for the clutch and btw I think one of the areas where magnetic gears will be most useful is space because there is no need for maintenance.
Lol the Own Magnetic used this type transmission in 1916 and the electomagnetic drive was and is patented
@@juststeve7665 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Magnetic
dude this is awesome.
Very interesting experimentation. One day you will find something useful for this idea. Certainly a cool toy. Very humourous video title also, as you document the various ways you can break it.
Keep on breaking things: The best way to learn!
I’ve always thought about this sort of concept but for disk brakes… would make for brakes you would never need to change and would give you 4 extra alternators when braking
This is amazing.
Very well done!
Nice project. What or how would this be used?