Sorry for the lapse in uploads, I'm currently rebuilding my house from a fire and when I get more time the regular upload schedule will resume. Thanks for all the support over the last 12 months, I wouldn't be able to get through all this without the subs! Much love
The 930s were actually famous for spinning out while letting off the gas or braking through a turn. Not under acceleration. Accelerating through a turn, even when the boost hits, they have incredible grip.
Exactly, all the weight over the rear, under load on throttle these cars grip. Its when you lift off mid-corner, and the weight transfers to the front, the rear can step out, and not mentioned here.
I think the issue about the boost lag is the inexperienced driver starts adding too much throttle too early in the turn, boost hits, backend gives an unexpected shove forward and a little sideways, driver overreacts and fully cuts throttle, rear end briefly tucks back in as traction catches up but then swings very wide as the weight shifts to the front end and the engine-heavy rear pendulums all the way around.
The handling issue with the 930 was NOT the boost suddenly coming on mid corner. It was lifting off the throttle mid corner and the weight of the rear engine would cause the tail to swing out. Mid engined cars and rear engined cars do this. If you know how to really drive these cars, you can use this “feature” to steer with the throttle. Go into a tight hairpin, lift off the throttle for a split second, as the tail starts to come around, hit the throttle again to regain traction and direction.
Interesting how today’s Porsche Turbo more than doubles the original’s power, but due to traction control and other advanced technology is much safer to drive near the limit.
My dad use to work for Porsche and he said they are like boats the way you have to drive them. You really can only take corners if you hold your foot in the gas as much as it feels it doesn’t want to grip it will, it’s when you let off and the rear end unloads and lifts it takes all weight off the tires.
Owned an '86 930. Hway On-ramps were like taking off from an aircraft carrier. Lifting mid-turn was suicidal. Gas tank in front so traveling across Texas at 140 mph was scary when the tank was near empty becuase the front end would get very light.
Worked for a used car dealer. Morning time I get 2 dealer plates and a address in Brooklyn to pick up a 86 Turbo. Im 18 at that time. I go in bus and subway. Reach the house, install plates, shake hands and start driving back to dealership in Long Island. Drives ok, get on highway and all hell broke loose. Got off the next exit, summertime temps in mid 90's, I get out of this car with feeling sick to my stomach, im ice cold and my knees were wobbly. I almost called my boss and told him I cant drive this thing back but came to an silent agreement with myself to not let revs get above 3000. Made it back. Now I'm 52 and have yet to match that car. Seriously, WHAT THE HELL were the engineers thinking when they created this monstrosity. Driving this car will definitively scar you for life.
It really takes me back in the day when my friend’s dad warned him about the limit handling of his air-cooled Targa and had my friend practice in a large empty parking lot. Talk about balling in the 80’s. 😊
Drove a 87 930 Turbo for a few weeks. It was insanely fun. When the turbo kicked in the force of acceleration pulled you back into your chair. My friend who came for a ride in it compares it to taking off in a jet. A lot of rear engined cars have the pendulum effect when the arse end will overtake the front end if given half a chance. You just drive accordingly.
Had a 73 911T, Guards Red, car was a rocket. Reminded me of my days of go kart racing. First car I broke 125 mph in fully pegged 5th gear and .8Gs too. Front air dam, exhaust. Fuchs Alloys pirellis, built bosch injection. And believe me had 12 chevy muscle cars but that 911 was on rails and pulled hard!
Dude, this content is slick with enough technical detail to keep a real enthusiast interested. This content could easily be on commercial tv. SUBSCRIBED!
I was ten the first time I saw a 911 Turbo. Between the flares and the Whale Tail, I was in awe. It was an amazing machine. It is still one of the amazing vehicles I have ever seen.
When you do the 959. Can you remember to point of the fact that it took Porsche till 1997 in the form of the 911 Turbo S to “match” (not beat) the 959’s performance . Truly an amazing car
The 959 I think is the best car ever created. There were so many things that car had in the 80’s that most cars didn’t get till the 2000’s. There is a guy that continued the the r&d of them from the 90’s on and he’s been able to get them to I think like 3.3 second 0-60 and like close to 800 horsepower. Off same platform and engine. They really were the first super car. Such a damn shame the us market never was able to get them. My dad says he remembers working at Porsche cars of America in Reno Nevada in 84-86 and he said he saw when they brought over a couple for track day cars.. they never were allowed to stay cause the whole crash test controversy. But he said he remembers seeing them unload a few out of a truck one day at work.
Everytime I’m on acid I find myself on ur account watching video after video till my phone is dead😂idk what it is cars jus make me happy n I smile hella watchin these
The funny thing with rear engine is when I had my first car which was the 850 cc fiat. While driving it with smooth rear tyres in the rain I used to imagine I was in the turbo porche. I used to absolutely love getting it sideways and it was very controllable. I think porche should have made a special effort to retrain the 911 new owners of the turbo in how to handle it.
I seem to remember Porsche showing up at Watkins Glen with a 2.0 liter turbo in 1969 for the 6hr race. There was a story that a mechanic had installed a wastgate backward which doubled the boost. They remedied the mistake wihout damage to the engine. As the story goes, for a brief time the little 2liter was putting out around 800hp. That's what I heard anyway. I think I was there to cover the 6hr and Can-Am races for a publication and learn the track for my first SCCA National race the following month.
Awesome video mate. Spent the first 10 years of my career as a tech working at a speed shop that specialised in Porsche, I've yet to find ANY mistakes on any of your Porsche related videos. I usually pick up a few here and there from much larger channels. I always wanted to build a matte black slant nose, but the prices have gone insane now I have a bit of money behind me and I'd hate to cut up a good car. Keep up the great work.
The thing about the 930 was that you have to stay ON the gas when the ass-end starts to come out. It's counter-intuative and it takes a lot of skill and trust in the car to keep the rear in check.
I've always loved the 911, it was one of my poster cars as a kid in the 80's. This is really well done, you really get into all the key details of the history of the 911 turbo in a video under 15 minutes, that is impressive. I enjoyed it.
Man this is the first content I see. The production is right up in my lane, the music, the visuals, the...everything. Sorry to hear about the fire. May peace be with you and your family.
I believe the second production car to be turbocharged was the International Scout 80, it had a 152 or 196 cubic inch 4 cylinder with a I believe a Garrett turbo. Unfortunately most systems were uninstalled at dealers after most people realized that the tech wasn’t quite there. I have a 196 Scout 80 and one day I’d love to do a turbo system “justice” with efi and a modern turbo, to be clear it’s not gonna be fast, I don’t want to make a racecar but the added power of a turbo will help with drivability, if you’ve driven up a steep grade on a 60s 4 cylinder you would know why id want a turbo.
Absolutely phenomenal work. I have always loved the quality and depth of your videos and once again you have raised the bar. As a 911 Turbo S owner myself, I can’t wait for your next episodes!
What 911 turbo s do you own? My uncle has a 964 man I love that thing I just can’t stand hearing 911 I want to know which one not talking you down or anything just curious. I pray it’s not a 996
I owned a 2003 Porsche GT2, one of the "Widowmakers" and the real reason they were such a handful was that the factory in their wisdom, decided that in order to stop people crashing the rear-engined Turbo cars, they'd dial in quite a bit of front end understeer. Well, all that did was to make it WORSE. The car would plow at the front, then all of a sudden, the front tires would grip again, and all those forces would cause the rear end of the car to unweight and then you'd spin. The fix, was to dial in a lot more front camber, change the caster angle a little and make the front grip properly and also turn in better and faster; that solved it for my car. I used to track my car at Laguna Seca, Thunderhill, Sears Point/Sonoma Raceway and others, and once the suspension was really dialed in, as well as setting the ride height to Euro specs, not US specs, the car was transformed - I was regularly 2 seconds a lap faster than the GT3's at Laguna Seca. I really regret selling that car, I miss it.
The Porsche Turbo was not the widowmaker. Unskilled drivers were. A friend of mine owns a 993, has owned it for some 12 years and still is slightly afraid of it. That's how you survive in a Porsche. Same goes for F40, Countach, Cobra, Dodge Viper, any super sports car. They are bonkers. You have to be the one with the sanity at the wheel for you definitely can't expect it from your car.
I still own a drive a 1983, 911 Turbo Carrera in Red and Black with the full European body flair package. 430,000 original miles. Bought her brand new and have never regretted it and she still turns heads
I have an 82 930 with some mods and about 400hp. It commands respect but that’s what makes it exciting. I do not drive it as aggressively as many of my other sports cars.
Phenomenal work!!! I'm beyond grateful to have discovered y'all's channel! You don't play, the detail, technically correct points, and historical references are exemplary! Y'all gwan be hurting a lot of feelings with this level of work, Props and Respect!!!! 🙏
Back in 1987 I went to a Porsche dealer to finance a new car but my insurance company would not cover it. I went across the street and bought a 1987 Buick Grand National. Strangely they had no problem insuring that vehicle. I still have it.
Great video!!! Your free-flowing narration along with great video footage (for reference) made this absolutely wonderful to watch. I'm looking forward to your next segment.😊
Great video and enjoyed it very much. One other thing is the 930 Turbo has slightly wider front fenders as well. Once thing about these is the grip is excellent with modern tires so in street driving you would would have to be going very hard into a turn and then make a mistake to have a problem. IMO back in the day, the tire compounds sucked and inexperienced drivers that experienced boost in a turn panicked and lifted off the throttle abruptly causing the oversteering. It would be just like the people crashing when exiting cars and coffee, but at higher speed.
Truly scary cars. My dad bought a 1976 911 from a guy he knew in 1998, but the kicker was that the car had a 1994 911 turbo motor swapped into, when the '76 motor died. The motor was not stock, due to the fact that my dad being a mechanic, and he friend being a massive gear head. The car had upgraded brakes and wider and grippier tires, and was insanely quick for its time. Even as I was growing up, in the early 2000's, the car was faster than just about anything on the road, due to the power to weight ratio. My dad sold it in the 2010's due to the economy and the price of parts for the vehicle. One of the few Porsche's I've had the pleasure to experience, but by far one of the most raw, and sinister vehicles I have ever seen.
You neglect to mention that Cynthia Files entered a corner with signs stating the max safe speed was 25 mph at over 60mph. And that she had been drinking. That case was a farce. And Porsche settled out of court for publicity reasons as much as for anything else. The moniker 'widowmaker' added to the 930's mystique. But in reality it is over the top. The 930 was no more 'deadly' than other very fast cars unleashed on the public. Some people just shouldn't be allowed behind the wheel of cars like this.
Lots of doctors and lawyers spun these in corners because of the heavy rear and light front end, leading to the nickname "hammer ". Slow into the corner, fast out was the mantra.
Lift off oversteer, snap oversteer. A lot of the demons in the chassis got exorcised in the 993 style Turbo. The air cooled twin turbo Porsches were absolutely awesome, and Ruf furthered the legend throughout its existence.
I had a 1984 3.3 911 (930)whale tail turbo I bought from my brother-in-law when he had to leave the country quickly ;). I had been racing in amateur & professional road course competition for over 15 years & was professionally trained with a comp license, so I wasn't like the usual owner. I had also previously raced a '79 911 SC, so was familiar with tail-frisky cars. It was called the "doctor killer" because they could afford it, but didn't know how to control it anywhere its 10/10ths limit. Aside from not understanding of the steering geometry & tire patch management required to drive fast, the rear-drive, rear-engine monster had 2 interesting ways to put you off the road backwards into a tree. It was highly susceptible to even slight drop-throttle oversteer with so much weight in the rear. If you entered a corner a tad too fast & didn't know not to lift on the throttle, the weight would shift forward & lighten up your traction over the rear wheels just as you were diverting more traction to the turning wheels in front. Oversteer broke the back end loose & that's all she wrote. Also, in tighter corners if you let the turbo close down & then really got on it approaching the apex, the extra horses in the apex would be an unpleasant surprise as the handling changed radically just as you tried to track-out of the turn. Oops! I very much liked driving it to it's limit, though always with a tad more adrenaline than my usual competition car setup. In 1987, I sold it & got a 1988 BMW E-30 M3. It's straight 4 was originally designed for the 1983 Beneton F1 car & though only 199 bhp stock, was designed to be turbocharged. I sent it to Dinan to race modify it & it became the best car I ever had. Its 50-50 weight distribution made it so easy to drive at the limit you could throttle-steer it through some corners. It felt almost like being in a kayak in fast rapids, where you felt like all you had to do was twist your hips to control it. It could also run for full races at Lime Rock, a tight momentum course with 2 hellish corners with no brake fade. Big Bend is a double-apex hairpin with a blind second apex at the end of the main straight & you didn't have to feather between apexes with the M3, saving important tenths. The Diving Turn, a 4-story dive into a 90° right hand corneronto the main straight could be taken foot to the floor in the M3, relying on the suspension to load up at the bottom of the dive at the turn-in. Perfect car for the perfect course. I still think about that whale tail now & then, though.
God tier edits, man. Great fucking music. Wonderful sound design, complete with engine sounds interlaced with on screen specs. Grown up narrator. Sick channel.
I loved my 1989 930 and miss it to this day. What a beautiful car with the wide body and a great stance and presence on the road. Sorry I let it go. After a 1960 356B, a 1969 911E, a 1973 911S Targa and a 1985 911 Carrera, all of which I loved , the 930 was much more powerful and fun to drive at PCA events and on the road.
The Turbo was ok when driven by responsible people, but it made you want to try driving it faster, and somehow the needle on the speedometer kept going higher.
Another freaking awesome video. Your storytelling, research and presentation are tops. Thanks so much for the videos, I am always looking for your next!!!
300bhp from the 3.3L turbo notwithstanding, we have to remember the 930 didn't have all the "nannies" to keep that power in check (traction control, ABS, etc). A beast of a car - widowmaker indeed.
I had got used to the sudden power peak of my then old Honda Elsinore CR 125 -75. First moped power, and after certain rpm, a sudden mindless increase. The 911 Turbo was similar, but it was only driveable in the summer, dry asphalt. Even wet could cause problems, as when the power came in the corner, and someone panicked and lifted the throttle completely, that was literally the final nail to the coffin. With both motorcycles and cars, here in Finland we call the result "solisluu siksakki", "collar bone zigzag". That is why owners usually did not allow anyone else test drive their Turbos...
Most interesting in this story is the way contemporary normally aspirated road cars in Europe immediately increased power to beyond that of turbo-charged cars without increasing displacement or decreasing reliability. Indeed, most modern road tuned sports-cars eschew turbo-charging whilst small "economical" engines are now the main recipients of a turbo-charger.
Yo! I love your content. The production value is fantastic. The audio and visuals are solid. Your voice is always on point and your script is well written. I appreciate the effort you and your team go through.
One of my best friends was blessed to have a 80's 930 Turbo in our high school years (1986-1989) along with a Countach, 328 Ferrari, 85 style Supra (new), and a slew of sport/super bikes. In fact, when he was driving the Countach to school (it was registered to his father's company in California, we were in Florida); the police pulled him out of class thinking it was a stolen vehicle. I used to draw 930's all day as doodles, never owned one yet. Almost bought a 1989 944 Turbo, but needed something more practical. Now the 930 Turbos are almost unobtainable unless your pockets are extremely deep. Most don't realize how small the 911/930 from this era was compared to modern cars/911's.
this channel is great and phenomenal deserves deserves 1,000,000 subscribers at least for the great storytelling and research that must that must go into this channel. I also esthetically liked the little 3D car renders as well they're very nice touch to the video. the man of effort that you put into your videos deserve so many more subscribers to your channel! I also liked the little act that I had heard about when how when the Bugatti engine for the Veyron was being made that the engine in testing created so much heat that it almost burned down the building while it was in tested and tuned like absolutely mental how crazy that can be.
So much hardwork you put into making these Videos , its evident in its superiority, I appreciate the quality work , thanks for Existing 🦅 Superb Work 🐦⬛. bless You Fam.
Mark Donahue is the engineer who perfected the turbo porche engine. When Metzger first showed it to Donahue, it wouldn't idle and "The throttle was basically an on/off switch". Read "The unfair advantage". It's mark Donahue's autobiography . He spent a summer at the porche factory perfecting the Bosch fuel metering system. Made the 917-30 a legend
86 rothmans 911 with billy Coleman on board was the icon of Irish rallying of the 80’s-Famous clip of billy going up a ditch oversteering in the circuit of Ireland at that time on a night stage well worth a look .no turbo tho’ but buckets of power available
Yes and no. That induces snap oversteer which is particularly prominent in mid engine cars. However if this was the only issue then all 911s would suffer the same flaw. What made the 930 dangerous was the addition of unpredictable power delivery which didnt occur when lifting off throttle.
@@johnlucier5654 The 011/930 models are rear engined, not mid engined. The tail tends to wag the dog resulting in a cornering/throttle technique different from front or mid engine cars:)
@@johnlucier5654 It’s the lifting of the throttle mid corner that is the problem. When the boost come on with these old cars, it came all at once, catching a lot of unsuspecting and inexperienced drivers off-guard.
Great video. A wonderful summary and overview of probably the most influential engineering aspect (turbocharging) to permeate future 911 models - both forced induction and naturally aspirated. If you haven't already, I suggest reading Paul Frère's, "Porsche 911 Story" - any edition - for a comprehensive, inside engineering perspective of the 911.
very cool and documentary quality video. Just to mention that the 911 turbos used to be extremely dangerous on wet and or icy roads. This was still true for the GT2 models that were produced with turbos and rear wheel drive and without a stability control. The last real widow maker was from my point of view the 911 GT2 of the 997 series. All models after the 997 had the ESP fitted. I had the pleasure to race an 911 GT2 997 on a slighty damp German Autobahn in my AMG SL65 and the 911 spun out and crashed. Just because the driver didn't want to be overtaken by a Mercedes.
"A great car is nothing without a great engine and a great engine doesn't exist without a great engineer"🔥🔥🔥🔥✍️
🗣🗣🗣🗣
Bars
Just wish they put the hellcat in the viper cause If they did it would be legendary
You first need to define "what is a great engine".
wow so profound
Sorry for the lapse in uploads, I'm currently rebuilding my house from a fire and when I get more time the regular upload schedule will resume. Thanks for all the support over the last 12 months, I wouldn't be able to get through all this without the subs! Much love
Man don’t apologize. Your safe and that’s what matters.
Damn bro. Sorry to hear that. I'll be patiently waiting for more content.
Excellent Channel! TY Sir. 👍
337!!!!!
Your house burned down and you’re making TH-cam videos???
Love your content, don’t sweat it ❤
The 930s were actually famous for spinning out while letting off the gas or braking through a turn. Not under acceleration. Accelerating through a turn, even when the boost hits, they have incredible grip.
Exactly, all the weight over the rear, under load on throttle these cars grip. Its when you lift off mid-corner, and the weight transfers to the front, the rear can step out, and not mentioned here.
Sounds like mr2
I think the issue about the boost lag is the inexperienced driver starts adding too much throttle too early in the turn, boost hits, backend gives an unexpected shove forward and a little sideways, driver overreacts and fully cuts throttle, rear end briefly tucks back in as traction catches up but then swings very wide as the weight shifts to the front end and the engine-heavy rear pendulums all the way around.
I never had my Turbo spin out during deceleration or acceleration.
@@bngr_bngr you’re not going fast enough then
The handling issue with the 930 was NOT the boost suddenly coming on mid corner. It was lifting off the throttle mid corner and the weight of the rear engine would cause the tail to swing out. Mid engined cars and rear engined cars do this. If you know how to really drive these cars, you can use this “feature” to steer with the throttle. Go into a tight hairpin, lift off the throttle for a split second, as the tail starts to come around, hit the throttle again to regain traction and direction.
Interesting how today’s Porsche Turbo more than doubles the original’s power, but due to traction control and other advanced technology is much safer to drive near the limit.
Precisely.
My dad use to work for Porsche and he said they are like boats the way you have to drive them. You really can only take corners if you hold your foot in the gas as much as it feels it doesn’t want to grip it will, it’s when you let off and the rear end unloads and lifts it takes all weight off the tires.
100%
Owned an '86 930. Hway On-ramps were like taking off from an aircraft carrier. Lifting mid-turn was suicidal. Gas tank in front so traveling across Texas at 140 mph was scary when the tank was near empty becuase the front end would get very light.
Worked for a used car dealer. Morning time I get 2 dealer plates and a address in Brooklyn to pick up a 86 Turbo. Im 18 at that time. I go in bus and subway. Reach the house, install plates, shake hands and start driving back to dealership in Long Island. Drives ok, get on highway and all hell broke loose. Got off the next exit, summertime temps in mid 90's, I get out of this car with feeling sick to my stomach, im ice cold and my knees were wobbly. I almost called my boss and told him I cant drive this thing back but came to an silent agreement with myself to not let revs get above 3000. Made it back. Now I'm 52 and have yet to match that car. Seriously, WHAT THE HELL were the engineers thinking when they created this monstrosity. Driving this car will definitively scar you for life.
I have an 85 with the 5spd in it. Thing is a rocket after 3 grand !
@@mehatestaxesit's a Drivers car. No comfy Corvette
It really takes me back in the day when my friend’s dad warned him about the limit handling of his air-cooled Targa and had my friend practice in a large empty parking lot.
Talk about balling in the 80’s. 😊
I'm so glad you decided to do Porsche. I love Porsche as a brand and my dream car is the 918.
too bad you're stuck with your mom's volvo 240
@@dannyzuehlsdorf3697 You are mighty rude. Can you say insecure?
@@dannyzuehlsdorf3697 what's wrong with volvo? Its reliable and fun to drive
@@JayCrash450 gotta have at least ONE snarky comment! Life isn't always cupcakes and unicorns.
@@Payday5 You're right, but not even close to a Porsche. Well, MAYBE the 924! ☺
The man, the myth, the legend. Has returned with art as usual
Drove a 87 930 Turbo for a few weeks. It was insanely fun. When the turbo kicked in the force of acceleration pulled you back into your chair. My friend who came for a ride in it compares it to taking off in a jet. A lot of rear engined cars have the pendulum effect when the arse end will overtake the front end if given half a chance. You just drive accordingly.
Had a 73 911T, Guards Red, car was a rocket. Reminded me of my days of go kart racing. First car I broke 125 mph in fully pegged 5th gear and .8Gs too. Front air dam, exhaust. Fuchs Alloys pirellis, built bosch injection. And believe me had 12 chevy muscle cars but that 911 was on rails and pulled hard!
The production of these videos are just beautiful
Dude, this content is slick with enough technical detail to keep a real enthusiast interested. This content could easily be on commercial tv.
SUBSCRIBED!
I was ten the first time I saw a 911 Turbo. Between the flares and the Whale Tail, I was in awe. It was an amazing machine. It is still one of the amazing vehicles I have ever seen.
I’ve always said that the 930 and the 959 are the reason that the 911 is still made to this day.
Especially the 959
When you do the 959. Can you remember to point of the fact that it took Porsche till 1997 in the form of the 911 Turbo S to “match” (not beat) the 959’s performance .
Truly an amazing car
959 is the greatest supercar of the 80s , so many dream porches to choose from !
I agree. The technology in the 959 filtered down into the consumer 911 series starting with the all-wheel-drive 964 Carrera 4.
The 959 I think is the best car ever created. There were so many things that car had in the 80’s that most cars didn’t get till the 2000’s. There is a guy that continued the the r&d of them from the 90’s on and he’s been able to get them to I think like 3.3 second 0-60 and like close to 800 horsepower. Off same platform and engine. They really were the first super car. Such a damn shame the us market never was able to get them. My dad says he remembers working at Porsche cars of America in Reno Nevada in 84-86 and he said he saw when they brought over a couple for track day cars.. they never were allowed to stay cause the whole crash test controversy. But he said he remembers seeing them unload a few out of a truck one day at work.
Everytime I’m on acid I find myself on ur account watching video after video till my phone is dead😂idk what it is cars jus make me happy n I smile hella watchin these
The funny thing with rear engine is when I had my first car which was the 850 cc fiat.
While driving it with smooth rear tyres in the rain I used to imagine I was in the turbo porche.
I used to absolutely love getting it sideways and it was very controllable.
I think porche should have made a special effort to retrain the 911 new owners of the turbo in how to handle it.
I seem to remember Porsche showing up at Watkins Glen with a 2.0 liter turbo in 1969 for the 6hr race. There was a story that a mechanic had installed a wastgate backward which doubled the boost. They remedied the mistake wihout damage to the engine. As the story goes, for a brief time the little 2liter was putting out around 800hp. That's what I heard anyway. I think I was there to cover the 6hr and Can-Am races for a publication and learn the track for my first SCCA National race the following month.
Awesome video mate. Spent the first 10 years of my career as a tech working at a speed shop that specialised in Porsche, I've yet to find ANY mistakes on any of your Porsche related videos. I usually pick up a few here and there from much larger channels.
I always wanted to build a matte black slant nose, but the prices have gone insane now I have a bit of money behind me and I'd hate to cut up a good car.
Keep up the great work.
“The widow maker” is the single greatest name for a car to have.
The thing about the 930 was that you have to stay ON the gas when the ass-end starts to come out. It's counter-intuative and it takes a lot of skill and trust in the car to keep the rear in check.
correct
This channel is refreshing. I enjoy the professional take on history and details on a more advanced level. Subscribed👍🏻
I've always loved the 911, it was one of my poster cars as a kid in the 80's. This is really well done, you really get into all the key details of the history of the 911 turbo in a video under 15 minutes, that is impressive. I enjoyed it.
Man this is the first content I see. The production is right up in my lane, the music, the visuals, the...everything. Sorry to hear about the fire. May peace be with you and your family.
I believe the second production car to be turbocharged was the International Scout 80, it had a 152 or 196 cubic inch 4 cylinder with a I believe a Garrett turbo. Unfortunately most systems were uninstalled at dealers after most people realized that the tech wasn’t quite there. I have a 196 Scout 80 and one day I’d love to do a turbo system “justice” with efi and a modern turbo, to be clear it’s not gonna be fast, I don’t want to make a racecar but the added power of a turbo will help with drivability, if you’ve driven up a steep grade on a 60s 4 cylinder you would know why id want a turbo.
Absolutely phenomenal work. I have always loved the quality and depth of your videos and once again you have raised the bar. As a 911 Turbo S owner myself, I can’t wait for your next episodes!
I couldn't have said better
What 911 turbo s do you own? My uncle has a 964 man I love that thing I just can’t stand hearing 911 I want to know which one not talking you down or anything just curious. I pray it’s not a 996
Keep that 964 as long as possible! Their build quality is phenomenal.
I owned a 2003 Porsche GT2, one of the "Widowmakers" and the real reason they were such a handful was that the factory in their wisdom, decided that in order to stop people crashing the rear-engined Turbo cars, they'd dial in quite a bit of front end understeer. Well, all that did was to make it WORSE. The car would plow at the front, then all of a sudden, the front tires would grip again, and all those forces would cause the rear end of the car to unweight and then you'd spin.
The fix, was to dial in a lot more front camber, change the caster angle a little and make the front grip properly and also turn in better and faster; that solved it for my car. I used to track my car at Laguna Seca, Thunderhill, Sears Point/Sonoma Raceway and others, and once the suspension was really dialed in, as well as setting the ride height to Euro specs, not US specs, the car was transformed - I was regularly 2 seconds a lap faster than the GT3's at Laguna Seca. I really regret selling that car, I miss it.
The Porsche Turbo was not the widowmaker. Unskilled drivers were. A friend of mine owns a 993, has owned it for some 12 years and still is slightly afraid of it. That's how you survive in a Porsche. Same goes for F40, Countach, Cobra, Dodge Viper, any super sports car. They are bonkers. You have to be the one with the sanity at the wheel for you definitely can't expect it from your car.
With great horse power comes great responsibility.🚑
I still own a drive a 1983, 911 Turbo Carrera in Red and Black with the full European body flair package. 430,000 original miles. Bought her brand new and have never regretted it and she still turns heads
Your videos are getting better man! Love this one can’t wait for you to make more documentaries of the automotive world!
The original Porsche 911 (930) turbo - the car that was the definition of snap oversteer. I met someone who lost his son to a 911 turbo.
Kind of like the Porsche girl that became infamous. Makes me sad to think how many have died in Porsche's due to not being able to handle it.
Hey man, sorry to hear about the house, hope you've doing better, and as always great video.
These are the best car documentaries I’ve ever seen
I have an 82 930 with some mods and about 400hp. It commands respect but that’s what makes it exciting. I do not drive it as aggressively as many of my other sports cars.
Phenomenal work!!! I'm beyond grateful to have discovered y'all's channel! You don't play, the detail, technically correct points, and historical references are exemplary! Y'all gwan be hurting a lot of feelings with this level of work, Props and Respect!!!! 🙏
This is probably best video doc. on Porsche, I have ever seen and I am 62 years old!
This channel is criminally underrated rated.
337 hitting corner threes out here. Somebody come look at this 🏃🏾💀
Great meticulously picked content! What a great way to represent cars.
The production quality on this channel is amazing
Back in 1987 I went to a Porsche dealer to finance a new car but my insurance company would not cover it. I went across the street and bought a 1987 Buick Grand National. Strangely they had no problem insuring that vehicle. I still have it.
Your.lucky
Great video!!! Your free-flowing narration along with great video footage (for reference) made this absolutely wonderful to watch. I'm looking forward to your next segment.😊
You're killing it with these videos. 👏👏👏
Great video and enjoyed it very much. One other thing is the 930 Turbo has slightly wider front fenders as well. Once thing about these is the grip is excellent with modern tires so in street driving you would would have to be going very hard into a turn and then make a mistake to have a problem. IMO back in the day, the tire compounds sucked and inexperienced drivers that experienced boost in a turn panicked and lifted off the throttle abruptly causing the oversteering. It would be just like the people crashing when exiting cars and coffee, but at higher speed.
which is why it blows my mind Porschephiles revere the 911 platform yet turn their nose up at the 944/928 grand tourers.
Truly scary cars. My dad bought a 1976 911 from a guy he knew in 1998, but the kicker was that the car had a 1994 911 turbo motor swapped into, when the '76 motor died. The motor was not stock, due to the fact that my dad being a mechanic, and he friend being a massive gear head. The car had upgraded brakes and wider and grippier tires, and was insanely quick for its time. Even as I was growing up, in the early 2000's, the car was faster than just about anything on the road, due to the power to weight ratio. My dad sold it in the 2010's due to the economy and the price of parts for the vehicle. One of the few Porsche's I've had the pleasure to experience, but by far one of the most raw, and sinister vehicles I have ever seen.
That was a great video. Thanks for making it.
You neglect to mention that Cynthia Files entered a corner with signs stating the max safe speed was 25 mph at over 60mph. And that she had been drinking. That case was a farce. And Porsche settled out of court for publicity reasons as much as for anything else.
The moniker 'widowmaker' added to the 930's mystique. But in reality it is over the top. The 930 was no more 'deadly' than other very fast cars unleashed on the public. Some people just shouldn't be allowed behind the wheel of cars like this.
This is the best channel. When I first saw this video I thought of the definition and honestly I saw 911 the widow maker.
Good luck rebuilding your stuff buddy. I'm glad you are still here.
Lots of doctors and lawyers spun these in corners because of the heavy rear and light front end, leading to the nickname "hammer ".
Slow into the corner, fast out was the mantra.
My Porsche mechanic in Central California called them "Dr. killers" in the late 80's. That wasn't common knowledge in the car culture talk of the day.
No. They spun when they lifted their foot off the accelerator halfway through a corner, losing them downforce at the rear.
Good video bud, porsche is incredible
Lift off oversteer, snap oversteer.
A lot of the demons in the chassis got exorcised in the 993 style Turbo. The air cooled twin turbo Porsches were absolutely awesome, and Ruf furthered the legend throughout its existence.
I had a 1984 3.3 911 (930)whale tail turbo I bought from my brother-in-law when he had to leave the country quickly ;). I had been racing in amateur & professional road course competition for over 15 years & was professionally trained with a comp license, so I wasn't like the usual owner. I had also previously raced a '79 911 SC, so was familiar with tail-frisky cars. It was called the "doctor killer" because they could afford it, but didn't know how to control it anywhere its 10/10ths limit. Aside from not understanding of the steering geometry & tire patch management required to drive fast, the rear-drive, rear-engine monster had 2 interesting ways to put you off the road backwards into a tree. It was highly susceptible to even slight drop-throttle oversteer with so much weight in the rear. If you entered a corner a tad too fast & didn't know not to lift on the throttle, the weight would shift forward & lighten up your traction over the rear wheels just as you were diverting more traction to the turning wheels in front. Oversteer broke the back end loose & that's all she wrote. Also, in tighter corners if you let the turbo close down & then really got on it approaching the apex, the extra horses in the apex would be an unpleasant surprise as the handling changed radically just as you tried to track-out of the turn. Oops! I very much liked driving it to it's limit, though always with a tad more adrenaline than my usual competition car setup. In 1987, I sold it & got a 1988 BMW E-30 M3. It's straight 4 was originally designed for the 1983 Beneton F1 car & though only 199 bhp stock, was designed to be turbocharged. I sent it to Dinan to race modify it & it became the best car I ever had. Its 50-50 weight distribution made it so easy to drive at the limit you could throttle-steer it through some corners. It felt almost like being in a kayak in fast rapids, where you felt like all you had to do was twist your hips to control it. It could also run for full races at Lime Rock, a tight momentum course with 2 hellish corners with no brake fade. Big Bend is a double-apex hairpin with a blind second apex at the end of the main straight & you didn't have to feather between apexes with the M3, saving important tenths. The Diving Turn, a 4-story dive into a 90° right hand corneronto the main straight could be taken foot to the floor in the M3, relying on the suspension to load up at the bottom of the dive at the turn-in. Perfect car for the perfect course. I still think about that whale tail now & then, though.
I am so loving this and can't wait for all the different 911 break down videos.
Dude, this is fantastic content
as a german i'm proud of you for trying to spell porsche instead of porsch.
Your pronounciation of "Flachbau" was on point 🔥
The old 911 turbo was very hard to drive at it's LIMIT now today it's like driving a KIA with all the TECHNOLOGY
Once again great content. Probably the best car information channel on TH-cam IMO
God tier edits, man. Great fucking music. Wonderful sound design, complete with engine sounds interlaced with on screen specs. Grown up narrator. Sick channel.
I loved my 1989 930 and miss it to this day. What a beautiful car with the wide body and a great stance and presence on the road. Sorry I let it go. After a 1960 356B, a 1969 911E, a 1973 911S Targa and a 1985 911 Carrera, all of which I loved , the 930 was much more powerful and fun to drive at PCA events and on the road.
The Turbo was ok when driven by responsible people, but it made you want to try driving it faster, and somehow the needle on the speedometer kept going higher.
That's so true of all variations of the 911 👍
Another freaking awesome video. Your storytelling, research and presentation are tops. Thanks so much for the videos, I am always looking for your next!!!
Another great video. Good luck with the house, man.
300bhp from the 3.3L turbo notwithstanding, we have to remember the 930 didn't have all the "nannies" to keep that power in check (traction control, ABS, etc). A beast of a car - widowmaker indeed.
As 911 turbo owner, thank you for your video
I had got used to the sudden power peak of my then old Honda Elsinore CR 125 -75. First moped power, and after certain rpm, a sudden mindless increase. The 911 Turbo was similar, but it was only driveable in the summer, dry asphalt. Even wet could cause problems, as when the power came in the corner, and someone panicked and lifted the throttle completely, that was literally the final nail to the coffin. With both motorcycles and cars, here in Finland we call the result "solisluu siksakki", "collar bone zigzag". That is why owners usually did not allow anyone else test drive their Turbos...
Missed your content, glad you're back....
Most interesting in this story is the way contemporary normally aspirated road cars in Europe immediately increased power to beyond that of turbo-charged cars without increasing displacement or decreasing reliability. Indeed, most modern road tuned sports-cars eschew turbo-charging whilst small "economical" engines are now the main recipients of a turbo-charger.
Yo! I love your content. The production value is fantastic. The audio and visuals are solid. Your voice is always on point and your script is well written.
I appreciate the effort you and your team go through.
What? The audio is terrible, the music volume is WAY too high.
This video is a great production, excellent editing too. Great work mate.
so well put together Jay, appreciate the explanation man
hey lovely video :)
As an european watcher I cant thank you enough for including metric numbers
keep up the great work
What a well put together video, thank you for sharing it!
One of my best friends was blessed to have a 80's 930 Turbo in our high school years (1986-1989) along with a Countach, 328 Ferrari, 85 style Supra (new), and a slew of sport/super bikes. In fact, when he was driving the Countach to school (it was registered to his father's company in California, we were in Florida); the police pulled him out of class thinking it was a stolen vehicle. I used to draw 930's all day as doodles, never owned one yet. Almost bought a 1989 944 Turbo, but needed something more practical. Now the 930 Turbos are almost unobtainable unless your pockets are extremely deep. Most don't realize how small the 911/930 from this era was compared to modern cars/911's.
Porsche is one of my favorite brands and to this day I still want a 911 turbo
this channel is great and phenomenal deserves deserves 1,000,000 subscribers at least for the great storytelling and research that must that must go into this channel. I also esthetically liked the little 3D car renders as well they're very nice touch to the video. the man of effort that you put into your videos deserve so many more subscribers to your channel!
I also liked the little act that I had heard about when how when the Bugatti engine for the Veyron was being made that the engine in testing created so much heat that it almost burned down the building while it was in tested and tuned like absolutely mental how crazy that can be.
The first Porsche I drove was a friends 1996 993 Turbo. The second Porsche I bought is the 2018 991.2 Turbo. Its not an addiction, its passion....!
Your videos , and editing specifically are stellar. Very. Well. Done. 👏🏽
Another banger!!! Always looking forward to the next video.
This is a great, well-produced video. Thank you.
So much hardwork you put into making these Videos , its evident in its superiority, I appreciate the quality work , thanks for Existing 🦅 Superb Work 🐦⬛. bless You Fam.
Mark Donahue is the engineer who perfected the turbo porche engine. When Metzger first showed it to Donahue, it wouldn't idle and "The throttle was basically an on/off switch".
Read "The unfair advantage". It's mark Donahue's autobiography . He spent a summer at the porche factory perfecting the Bosch fuel metering system. Made the 917-30 a legend
amazing quality man, keep it up
86 rothmans 911 with billy Coleman on board was the icon of Irish rallying of the 80’s-Famous clip of billy going up a ditch oversteering in the circuit of Ireland at that time on a night stage well worth a look .no turbo tho’ but buckets of power available
Good to see you back
I think the bigger issue was people lifting off the throttle in a turn.
That would be absolutely correct.
Yes and no. That induces snap oversteer which is particularly prominent in mid engine cars. However if this was the only issue then all 911s would suffer the same flaw. What made the 930 dangerous was the addition of unpredictable power delivery which didnt occur when lifting off throttle.
@@johnlucier5654 The 011/930 models are rear engined, not mid engined. The tail tends to wag the dog resulting in a cornering/throttle technique different from front or mid engine cars:)
@@johnlucier5654 It’s the lifting of the throttle mid corner that is the problem. When the boost come on with these old cars, it came all at once, catching a lot of unsuspecting and inexperienced drivers off-guard.
@@martinharris5017 I am quite aware of that.
Amazingly well done, this was a mini documentary.
Protect 337 at all cost 🔥🔥🔥
Great video. A wonderful summary and overview of probably the most influential engineering aspect (turbocharging) to permeate future 911 models - both forced induction and naturally aspirated. If you haven't already, I suggest reading Paul Frère's, "Porsche 911 Story" - any edition - for a comprehensive, inside engineering perspective of the 911.
My favorite 80's cars , 911 whale tail, Mitsubishi Starion, Datsun 280z , Buick Regal GTX, my dad had 2 starions and a 280z , and a Celica gt
very cool and documentary quality video. Just to mention that the 911 turbos used to be extremely dangerous on wet and or icy roads. This was still true for the GT2 models that were produced with turbos and rear wheel drive and without a stability control. The last real widow maker was from my point of view the 911 GT2 of the 997 series. All models after the 997 had the ESP fitted. I had the pleasure to race an 911 GT2 997 on a slighty damp German Autobahn in my AMG SL65 and the 911 spun out and crashed. Just because the driver didn't want to be overtaken by a Mercedes.
I've been following you in my feed for month.
You're a true car nerd.
Kepp it up, I love your vdeo
Great work as usual!!!!!
This channel and its content is so well put together
Happy to see you back brother. Keep up the great work. I love you. ❤
I had a 1987, Porsche 911 Turbo. Fun and pure automobile. I’m still here to talk about it.
Another top notch production
Great job highlighting the importance of responsible driving.👍
Thank you for pronouncing those names correctly💪🏽👍🏽