Big Trouble at Trek & Giant?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 มี.ค. 2024
- This clip is a section from episode 41 of the Wild Ones Podcast. You can view the full video here:
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#cycling #bikes #bicycle
Yeah, keep charging $15,000 for a bicycle when you can buy Ducati at the same price that's made in Italy. That's the reason for the downfall
Exactly this.
No bicycle in the world is worth more than 3K max.
What model cost that much
@@George-hl2xm the latest generation of giant tcr 10th
Complain no more and buy something else or not.
It blows my mind how bike companies thought that the demand brought by COVID wouldn't end.
exactly and then the flood of hardly used bikes into the second hand market
Dude every corporation is like that. A year or two of high cotton is the new baseline revenue expectation. When reality doesn’t deliver on their revenue fantasy they sack the CEO or cut jobs to control expenses.
I'm guessing that thinking is not their strong point.
"More bikes, higher prices, go go go!"
It blows my mind that people think the govt had your best interest in mind during covid as well.
@@patthewoodboy It's mind boggling as to how many 2-3 year old bikes that have been ridden maybe 50 miles during covid that are on the market. People bought bikes thinking they'd love the sport , rode them twice , got tired , realised riding a bike takes effort and quit 😉 E-bikes are also on the rise , living in a small city I see more and more E-bikes every summer being used for urban and rail trails as less people are purchasing pedal bikes as 70% of people in America are simply overweight and out of shape.
When a top end bike cost more than a motorbike…that’s the problem right there. Manufacturers getting greedy.
You have the options not to buy it.
The point being made, is that some bikes are overpriced!
@@simonskeggs7284 some bikes are overpriced, that is not the problem, you have the options not to buy it. So the problem is you. the question is why do you need expensive bikes? it's not like you are world champion. Some cars - Ferrari are over priced, so? if you cannot afford, don't buy it.
@@ivanteo1973you’re right. Everyone does, which is why they are tanking 🤣
@@ivanteo1973 and thats exactly whats happening 🙄
TREK, Giant and Specialized have priced themselves at Ferrari levels, but they are the Ford and Volkswagen of the bike world. They have lost sight of what they are about.
I mean….. specialized and Trek run the pros… They’re priced at Ferrari levels because they produce winning bikes. Italian bikes have neat designs but that’s about it.
Just wondering, what bikes are not at ferrari level? Not trolling, just curious.
@@GREATVOVA None now, thats the point. Trek, Specialized, Giant used to focus on being a mid range, volume producers, it was possible to choose from many road and MTB bikes between $500 and £1500, now they are all aiming at the top end, as thats where the greastest margins are but they have found at that they then loose the volume, hecne the situation they are in now.
Supply and demand, simple as that
In the end a bike is a bike. Everyone has the same components and similar frames. Spec wise they are identical. It’s just different paint jobs. So no wonder a top spec Giant cost the same as any other Italian brand.
I'm a bike mechanic and the parts on a $1000 Trek bicycle are the same as those found on $700 bikes offered by other manufacturers.
That's why direct to consumer brands flourish.
Life time warranty on a Trek.
How much is a lifetime warranty worth?
I chose right buying a Poseidon X it does everything I need it to do as far as transportation goes
Even headset bearings and hidden parts? Wheel hubs and so on ?
Ive lived on Long island my whole life. The bikes stores used to have little kids and teens hanging out in the shop and parkıng lot. The Kids are gone, the parking lots have Mercedes and Audis with $1000 racks for $5000 bikes.
Let’s look at the facts. A good bike, a bike of the people, used to cost less than £1000. My first bike, 8 years ago,was a Sora equipped Cube which retailed for £650. I bought a 105 equipped ribble Audax for £700 3 years later! In 2016 I bought a top end Cannondale for £2,500! Now a 105 equipped Defy is over £4,000.
£1,000?! A bike of the people?! I don’t think most people can afford a bike that expensive. Maybe enthusiasts but not most people. But you are definitely right about the prices being really high overall.
You should have a bought a real bike with some style..While at a lunch stop the waiter said man I love that bike ..my friend thought the waiter was taling about his brand new Giant.. Waiter said no that red Pinarello...he was talking about my like-new 1978 Pinarello Super Record team bike...sell your plastic probably all black boring bikes and get something more fun to ride..I ride 14 000 km a year on my classic bikes...riding boring carbon bikes would be like going for a drive in a Hyundai. Like a Hyundai car club vs a muscle car club.
I love to hear of these big brand stuggling.. when you’re trying to charge 12+k for a bicycle and nobody can afford it. Why’s anyone surprised.
Agee, it gets to a point where the bicycle technology is getting too expensive and technical for the average consumer. I can afford a $10,000 ($3,000-$5,500 is my limit) but its a bicycle and I'm not competitive to that level and do you really need that extreme tech?
@@macdaddy1617 the thing is it’s literally all just marketing nonsense. Carbon hasn’t improved in years. It’s only the shapes they mould it into too form differant frames with differant characteristics. then they sell that ‘advancement’. Same with groupsets. Shimano in particular just change the labels on old stock and move it up a spec. this generations dura ace will be next generations ultegra…. They think we are stupid.
Manufacturing their bikes in Asia for £400, then pricing them at £4k hasn't exactly been working out for them... Or the 9yo kids who are making them.
@@TenFalconsMusic Taiwan is a first world country.
Exactly! There are only so many midlife crisis dentists and ER docs to sell these 12k bikes to.
The industry made money hand over fist during covid. They got greedy and overbuilt. As consumers we now benefit from deep sale prices to clear out supply. Its great for us.
Who would've thought $6,000 for a mid range bike isn't profitable?
It’s a scam, sorry
its not because they made it $10K 😅😂 gotta love these Bike Brands. slapping us "Too Poor to afford our product"
Try offering a bike at a reasonable price rather than asking silly money. Pure greed and it’s coming back to bite them on the backside!
the high price of road bikes is preventing demand.
I waited two years to buy my Canyon because I didn’t want black and the others colors was meh. Finally they released a racing green color. It’s six years ago. Still have the bike with disc and mechanical 11 speed 105. I bought Shimano carbon wheels this year. Now I’m no longer in the market for anything. Electronic gears would be nice, but I rather use the money on other things from now on like traveling with the bike.
I just bought a used Trek 400 tange steel top quality Shimano ultegra 8 speed runs great on craigslist $99 mint condition. It's 40 years old and it can last another 40 years.
I’ve had 3-4 years out of riding my bikes regularly. Now I’ve got back in, I’m shocked at how much more complex and expensive things have got…..but definitely not better IMO
Bikes are too expensive,and bike companies got greedy . The average working man or woman can not afford to pay the prices they are asking .
Ex insider here, if you guys only knew the expectations these big brands have in terms of sales you’d go crazy. I worked at a shop during the COVID boom and we were selling about 15-20 bikes per day opened for about a year. Then about ten per day for about 8-10 months and finally hit rock bottom. Lots of households now have bikes. Prices are still up there. And inflation is pretty much worldwide. Bike sales won’t start to pick up decently at least until another 3-5 years or unless they come out with something radical
Demand is suppressed because prices are ~20-25% too high
40%
50%
We all decided to keep our old bikes that work fine. Corporations want you to desire the newest of the new. They want you to pay top dollar for it. Approaching planned obsolescence. I understand RD, I understand they have pro teams, sponsorships, etc. I have kids in collage and taxes to pay. 8500k bike is not on my radar
Just went to buy a new road bike. Giant could not even be ordered at this point. Trek was out 6 months with no guarantee of delivery. Ended up at a specialized dealer ordered Sunday, took delivery Thursday. Other brands locally were out 4 to 6 months. Definitely a manufacturer management issue.
Same thing with Canyon
This was the case last year as well. I bet they love that they can't control their supply anymore.
I ended up buying a Basso instead of a Canyon. We'll see :)
Salvaged a 2016 Trek Emonda ALU frame from a bike cooperative last year. Perfectly good frame in excellent condition. $200 dollars US. Built up with cast off parts in my basement. Rides just fine. LOL.
THEY ARE TO FUCKING EXPENSIVE!! why do we have to pay car prices for an e mtb!!!
"Renting a toilet" 😂 That sounds so wrong 🤪
When I was looking for my endurance carbon fiber, 105 road bike, CERVELO literally had equivalent options (the Caledonia 105 Mechanical) for $1000 LESS, NOT ON SALE. The Madone was $4200, the Tarmac was $4500, and the Caledonia was $3200. This was just last year too.
Guess which bike I ended up with? 😂
It would seem to me that Giant has made the layup of carbon frames much cheaper and efficient to produce than carbon frames were in the early/mid 2000’s when the frames were being produced in the US and EU. If that’s the case, why are bikes much more expensive adjusted for inflation? Margins are much higher than they were in the early/mid 2000’s. If Giant and Trek aren’t able to continually exceed investor expectations then maybe it’s the expectations that need to give. If the current market is tapped out and everyone bought bikes during Covid, borrowing demand from the future, the bike industry has to expand the consumer base. Provide quality $500-$800 bike models. Advocate for paved bike riding paths through cities and on public lands. We have to get more people on road bikes and we aren’t going to do it asking them to ride on public roads with cars. It’s too dangerous. Beginners and experienced riders alike, are concerned with increasingly dangerous roads. We need paved paths in nature for cyclists and joggers.
Your point that bike companies need to also be urban bike lane advocates to promote sales is a must.
@@chevyyyyyyy My city replaced a 22 mile abandoned rail line with a paved bike/walk/jog path. It has transformed the city. There are now parks all along the path, new housing developments, and restaurants/coffee stops. A relatively small city of 80,000 people, 450k in the greater metro, is able to support 24 bike shops. If a city will invest in a safe place to cycle then people will cycle. The roads are getting less and less safe. If we can’t expand access to safe cycling, the cycling industry is going nowhere.
@@chevyyyyyyy The execs probably never touch a bike or are roadies that drive to their rides
@@Sweetskistwo years ago I rode 4000 miles on the road. This year I think I’m at 100 miles and everything else is gravel or mountain bike.
@@kbd13-n9c Was the change mostly because of a change in interest or safety concerns?
People will start buying more bikes once pricing on houses, cars, and food comes down it’s as simple as that.
People are selling their good unused bikes. Why bike new?
I’m not into MTB anymore, but Trek has an unbelievable amount of mountain bikes offered. i would need to take a day long class to just try to figure out exactly what I would want if I were to buy a new mountain bike.
I've had people tell me trek is the apple phone of the bike world with each model being the last model with a different color and name but with moved around components
New generation is more apt to play video games instead of ride. I enjoy rebuilding 90's and early 2000's rides. Dirt cheap, abundant parts, easy to work on. I could care less about the color.
You surely meant you couldn't care less, right?
You ‘couldn’t’ care less
Ciöcc ISB (Bergamo, Italy) paints from its extensive color scheme, on customer demand, instead of pre-painting bikes which, I think, minimizes unwanted inventory to some extent.
$12,000 bikes. Integrated cockpits. Internal cables. Disk brakes. Electronic shifting.
And those technologies still don't justify the price.
Brands need to start getting into custom paint. Rather than making a few colors, have a few templates with a few colors online and and let the customer customize the paint for each bike.
Painting is a process , switching colors for one off bikes takes quite a bit of time.
Orbea is doing just that.
Trek does this with Project One. To my knowledge, Giant and Spesh don't offer this.
not enough demand at those prices is what it should say
i cannot confirm that there is too much inventory. at least in my area. i tried to find a trek checkpoint in size 54 for almost a year but couldn´t get ahold of one. Now i`ll stick with my old bike that`s still doing it`s job. Prices of new bikes are way too high anyways.
I have never understood bikes. When you by a car, say BMW, most of the parts like engine components are made by BMW. On bikes, just the frame is made by say Trek. The rest of the bike is SHIMANO etc.
Most car parts are made from a third party and assembled by the manufacturer. Remove you spark plugs they probably say NGK or Denso remove a control module it probably says continental on it.
Manufacturers design and assemble but will out source most components from other companies because it's cheaper
Buy 3 or 4 year old top range bikes for bugger all and upgrade. Look and go like new ones but cheaper
For perspective the bike market in the UK is about the size of Greggs and about 1/10th profitable.
For real?? That's mad. We cyclists all think it's massive 😅
Bikes should cost no more than $1000.
Wheels cost 1000 😂
Part of the reason for overproduction was growth in the high end - if you to have a bike costing 15.000 EUR in your lineup you have to fill the lower price points. Now that they want to cut down the SKU's (Trek) it will be interesting to see if they leave more gaps between the models - if they have the top model costing 15.000 and the one below 10.000 how will that affect the sales.
I love Trek, but that trend of $7K+ ebikes has to go away. Most people I run into want ebikes with throttles. You know, those cheap ebikes that can zoom by a $12K Trek ebikes while the rider laughs? Those ebikes.
*
management seldom seeks responsibility for anything other than success.
Any new bike is a luxury when most of us are having problems buying food and paying the bloody rent
Re the point about repainting frames, that’s always happened. I remember that used to happen with BMX’s in the 80’s. Excess inventory is repainted or restickered to the new colours or, if the model is changing design, the old frames are restickered/repainted as a cheaper model or a more popular colour to clear stock.
There’s so many quality bikes 2 or 3 years old on the second hand market, barely ridden, for half the price new.
I'm thinking that Trek has a cocaine addiction.
Behind on paying their bills and can't focus on anything for more than a few seconds.
they didn’t understand that bikes are not like phones that they can do planned obsolescence. even then 6-10 yr old phones you can still use it but they stop updates and its gonna be very slow nowadays. bikes though, if the frameset is still good, you only have to replace broken parts or have the itch to upgrade.
Corporate bs in my view. Bikes are so expensive and they keep churning out the same bike every year with newer tag lines.
I have a 12 year old s-works rubaix with dura ace di2. I cant find a reason to change bike. It is such a good bike.
I have a 5 year old S Works Roubaix and feel the same. In that the time the bike has nearly doubled in price! RIP off! Would rather spend some money upgrading wheels etc on my bike. I am never going to spend £12k plus.
$22,999 AUD is the list price for Fuel EXe on the aussie web site. You cant sell these😂 what are you thinking? Im thinking $5000 absolute max in build cost. Probably way less....
Agreed
These bikes cost way too damn much for being made in Taiwan! Also, in most cases, everything besides the frame is manufactured by another company. The drive train, handlebars, saddle, shifters, brakes, wheels, peddles all manufactured by another company. You're paying $5,000 for a frame and a name!
The toilet analogy was a very good one, i agree.
These bike companies have fooled people for years they need TDF type bikes for marginal gains. Fact is those bikes are for the .5%ers. Selling different standards over and over and over screwing the consumer in the long run. Screw Trek and Giant. I hope they sink and give the smaller companies a fair(er) shake. Local bike shop was telling me someone ordered a Giant MTB online and he had to put it together for a fixed price. These companies don’t care about the shops. They certainly don’t care about the consumer. PS : Rivendell is doing just fine.
Anyone that’s spent on second in the industry knows they sold 5-10 years worth of bikes in 2021-22. But they keep making bikes at high volume….
Liked the toilet analogy, especially in the rental market!
I agree about the colour changes annually , forcing shops to by the new range. The manufacturers don’t take the hit , the shop does , they sell it with a smaller margin just to shift it . The manufacturers sell it to the retailer for the same price
I would love a new bike but just cannot afford one. Increased cost of living means priorities change, woukd rather eat than ride the latest wizzbang!!
I just bought a new Trek X-Caliber 8 from my local Trek dealer for $1199. No complaints about pricing from my end.
Instead of playing the long game they decided to hustle the consumers. Now that we can go places and a bycicle is just a toy good luck convincing someone to chose a bike over a car for the same money. Hopefully the governments cancel their incentives as well, lets see who bends first.
You are being dishonest. Your average person is not going to buy a high-end bike. There are still bikes that you can buy that are affordable. Bikes have pricepoints.
Many people have replaced vehicles for going in to work with e-bikes in towns.
Giant and Trek have so many models and for each model so many build specs. Multiply that by the number of sizes and colours and no bike shop has the money or space to stock them all. A new customer such as me has to research for weeks to figure out what they think they might want but then can’t find one in stock anywhere close. If you are lucky enough to find one, you sit on it, check the size and geometry look good, then say thank you very much, go home and buy it online for a 25% discount. Yes, the bike industry has problems.
Honestly just go direct to consumer unless you’re buying a smaller boutique brand
I bet the quality of British summers has a massive effect on the bicycle industry that’s hard to quantify. we haven’t had a summer since 2021.
22 was one of the hottest summers on record…
@@ZakGerraty1 a heatwave lasting a few days doesn’t make a summer. But it will increase the average screwing the data.
Trek needs to learn a lesson from what Jobs did to Apple when he returned.
Another reason for the drop in demand is the cost of bikes and spare parts. The general cost of bikes is now inflated well past when most people would consider reasonable.
The middle class is getting chewed up. I’d imagine a new bike is an easy cut. I bought a lockdown bike for my wife that was barely used at Pennie’s on the dollar.
Good!….their prices are asinine
We got our bikes now, and the big new things are e-bikes and gravelbikes. But I guess some new bikes will evolve. I predict more lightweight e-bikes with offclickable batteries will come and many roadbikers will want to have roadbike with tyreclearance and gear-range trickled down from the gravelsegment. It is very comfortable in the hills to have a rearcog that is significantly larger than the smallest frontcog.
Bicycles have no business being as expensive as motorcycles.
there is a jersey and bibs shortage. Very hard to find cheaper good quality stuff like Neopro or Specialized RBX. And they are all black.
Yes, drab colors, on bikes too.
Many people buy in China for 1/4th of the price... same goes for bike parts, carbon frames, bars, btw.
I found the same TPU tubes 5 x cheaper on Aliexpress than on Amazon, etc.
@@DR_1_1 china stuff is just as good if not better. then the crap thats sold here
They could start by making bikes unnecessary complicated. Integrated cockpits, fully hidden cables and wedge clamps for proprietary seatpost cost lots of money to create and maintain.
Not enough demand but I’ve been trying to buy a TCR Advanced 2 rim brake model and it’s been a nightmare to get one, price reasonably and people will buy!! Not everyone wants or needs a £3/4/5k model
they do not cater to causal cyclist I have a $700 gravel bike I use for transportation and there is nothing wrong with it it has all the gears I need
When money is artificially printed (not earned from productive activity) and given to the population it pulls demand forward from future years to the present.
After this it's exactly as you described: everyone has all the kit they need and no new consumers are there to buy.
"Demand fell" no it was pulled forward
Had a look for a size small Giant bike, none available, perhaps they are stocking the wrong sizes.
Demand is price sensitive...Too much stock at high prices... cut prices!
Remember ALL retailers that price gouged us during COVID.
With inflation and higher cost I just can’t justify the money needed to upgrade to a nicer bike.
How about cyclocross cycling with archery? Kind of like a summer Biathlon.
I’m in, where do I sign up. I could already see specialized selling $100 arrows
lmao
So many good bikes lately and with how many that were bought in Covid, there is a fantastic second market at the minute.
This is not unusual, most businesses go through periods of change or economic downturns, it's cyclic, it will reset and most brands will survive but they will need to make changes to their business models to do so.
The profits are gargantuan so they have to adjust to bring bang demand. People want to bike at the mid and high end but theyre sticking to the bike they've had for 3+ years. Do we really need 12 spd and wireless shifters
Profit margins are 50-60% which is pretty standard in all business models.
Rocky Mountain changed up their color way this year and I got a Altitude c70 at cost at my local shop 😅
Have been keeping an eye on the price of the Trek Dual Sport+ 2 for a while.
It's recently been slashed from £2,025 to £1,699 in the UK.
The only thing thats going to save companies like Giant and Trek is a smart decision on which bikes they keep after their downsizing. They can't continue to market mainly to the 5% of riders that will spend $10,000+ on a bike, and should offer more affordable options for the people that want to ride, but can't aford to spend a quarter or their income on a bike.
More entry to mid-level bikes would be wise, especially some better spec'd sub-$1,000 choices.
The Giant shop by me shut down for good 2 years ago , said they just couldn't get bikes or parts anymore 😮
Often see brand new bikes being sold on marketplace etc and it is clear these have come straight from a store. I always assumed it may be a worker buying retail and trying to sell higher as a side gig, but hearing that retail stores are forced to buy a certain amount to retain a brand then it might be more likely its the owner selling on the side to drop the price below what the store can do it for.
Too much inventory ya right lol? I can’t seem to find M/L defy or revolt anywhere.
The manufacturers are afraid to release the inventory because they know they will flood the market. Specialized is paying a million dollars a month to warehouse their overstock right now... Absolutely insane IMAO...
Struggling to get a trek marlin 6 or talon 2 in m size...never any stock left
What size are you?
No way. I bet they have hundreds of medium Marlins in the warehouse. Call the shop and ask them.
Medium is normally available. My size is 58-60 which is rare.
Rocky Mountain bikes are on deep discount now. I saw a sweet hardtail for $700.
Truth is bikes have gotten too expensive and the ppl who buy road bikes, the younger folk, are too stretched financially.
I just purchased an ESKER Hayduke frame , with all the discounts on quality 1-3 year old components up to 50% off I'm going to build one hell of a bike.
That's a really great start to a bike. Congrats!
I purchased a Canyon which are ordered direct from Canyon. Canyon only offers the Endurace in black. Black suits me just fine.
Perhaps Canyon has the best business model
Welcome to crapitalism. I don't mean the Rivendells and Pegorettis, but companies that *have* to get big because there are Wall Street expectations.
Maybe not for Giant Group..because usually they sell their stuff to the other top brands (which might cost way cheaper before getting the sticker on), then the top ramp up the prices by providing "beautiful numbers of data" for the cyclists and hope they will buy..but fun fact--those wattage saves actually just marginal in real life
Im an ordinary middle class working man and I’m nuts about cycling. The $700 marlin 5 i waited 6 months for shouldn’t cost more than $400
I always said this about Shimano. Tourney, Altus, Acera, Deore, Sora, Tiagra, 105, Ultegra, SLX, XT, XTR, Dura Ace...it's INSANE. If they pared the crap down, they could streamline production and things could even cost less. I guess this was their aim with Link Glide and CUES, but why did it take so long? Shimano should have been doing this 15 years ago. Tourney for Walmart. Deore and XTR, 105 and Dura Ace. Make all of them really, REALLY good but the top of the range is super light. But no, a million SKUs that change every 2 years. Absurd. So of course Giant has too many SKUs, if they made a bike for each Shimano drivetrain, that alone would lead to over supply. How many Talons can they sell? And everyone makes bike frames. There are too many brands that don't really make bikes that are novel. They might look cool, but what sets them apart? I'm glad this is happening. Too much landfill fodder being produced.
Went to my local bike store and saw a 2022 105 equipped Specialized for $2200 USD that's ridiculous
where I am in the US, Trek has also bought out a couple local bike shops, and to sell their bikes. I've found the new Trek shops lack expertise in servicing bikes, lack parts for repair (i have shamano 105 mechanical), but they sure as hell will push the sale of new bikes. Even if your bike is < 1year old.
Now I'm in a city that still has a number of really good locally owned and run bike shops. So now with Trek bikes only sold at Trek shops, which are frankly the worse bike shop option, people who are buying bikes in all the local clubs are buying the brands sold at other shops. Clubs with riders from the armature racers to the 12mph avg riders. I wonder how much this is occurring elsewhere.
Here for Nic's fresh trim
The minute Trek stopped making bikes in the U.S. I knew it was over.
Blaming demand absolutely makes sense. When a brand like Trek says demand is down they're talking about the macro trend, not necessarily a personal and individual choice, especially those of dedicated cyclists. It's no secret that during the pandemic that people who had previously expressed almost zero interest in cycling all of a sudden were pushed into outdoor fitness and adventure activities, including cycling. So as that changed, or corrected post-pandemic, it's absolutely acceptable for us all to recognize that the macro trend of general demand has softened.
I bought a used GT Avalanche. Ive swapped out basically everything but the bottom bracket (that's next) and the brakes on it. I'm into the bike dor about $1k over 3 years. I've turned it into a very capable trail bike that far exceeds my current talents.
The equivalent bike would cost me closer to $1500 brand new.
The cycling industry is currently pricing itself out of existence.