I would love to hear what you have noticed in your area. If you work at a store are mountain bikes still moving? Or if your a customer do you notice them as busy as they were before
My LBS is slow on MTB, road/gravel selling really well. Price cuts on MTB were deep, lower than 2021 pricing. They scaled back allocations for 25' and working with more dealers to trade stock.
I think you hit the spot w your analysis. I snatched an Epic Evo w a discount and got rid of the Brain Susp. Mountain bikers are way less receptive to new technology. Its a bit more of an isolated discipline so you don’t have to keep up w the Joneses. I used to buy a new Road Bike every year while in Florida. Moved to Idaho and still ride my R5 rim brake road bike. Why?!?! Because No one cares what you ride on a club ride. I think territory/market has a lot to do with it.
Record high inflation, unrealistic rent and grocery cost, electric bills rising, lower real wages, literally no one can afford to pay $6000 for a $2000 bike.
Thanks to Wall Street buying up residential housing stock. Legislation aught to be passed to protect the working and middle class folk to prevent those corporate gangs from doing this.
Yes, i think the bike nowadays cost like 5times more than they are really worth... i still remember buying a carbon mtb 10years ago for 2k which was the most expensive highend modell of this brand, buying something today which would be compareable would cost 16k😅 also... who pays 16k for a mtb when they can buy a nice motorcycle with it
Bike industry is dying because they are way too expensive. Industry greed is coming back to bite them. Just bought new tires for my bike and they cost the same a a tire for my car!!!
Agreed, I enjoy cycling but it's ridiculously overpriced like everything else in this world right now. Not everybody can afford this sport, and some that are able are beginning to get tired of the nonsense. Enough is enough.😅
@@laurenz323 my dream bike has rim brakes. I just can't get into all of the fancy overpriced stuff like some of my friends. I don't need electronic shifting, etc and all that. I am training, staying in shape etc, but I'm not participating in a Tour de France so I don't really feel like I need it
Luxuries are the first. Boats, watches, fashion, sports cars, etc. You can include some hobbies in that too, for sure. Or at least "needing the best". I think people will still bike, but find the joy in the old bike or a cheap one.
Inflation, overpriced bikes/components, and covid MTB boom is over. No one needs to buy a new bike every 1-3 years especially at these ridiculous prices, ppl are holding on to what they have.
Mountain bikes have also gotten good enough that riders can keep them for a few years with only basic maintenance and replacement. When I started riding in the 90's, mountain bikes were clapped out after one season.
@@mikemiller756 …not if you had a good bike back in the 90s. This was actually the golden era of mtb‘s (early to mid 90s) when American brands built their bike frames themselves in the US! Not in Taiwan … and the original founders still were the CEO‘s of their companies. BEFORE some big players came and bought their work (KLEIN, Yeti etc. etc.).
Inflation is too small to count it in but sellers are just idiots... no more service and prices..... i build all mtb for half the price myself when i buy the parts seperate... they add 50% for maybe 10 Hours of work dude^^
thats great to hear, yea our service department for us was crazy in the winter time for season but for summer it was dead slow, no one is riding right now it is so hot
True. There are thousands of videos of bike maintenance in youtube. And while I really like to support my local shops and take my bike there for a service, I also started to buy tools to service my bike, at least the bare essentials.
Bikes and components are mind bogglingly expensive. This applies to road bikes also. Wheel sets for $4,000? 3D printed saddles for $450? WTF? Especially when we are starting to be suspicious that brands are sourcing component from China and marking them up more than 10x… Feeling taken advantage of.
Those overpriced components exist for the customers that want to spend that much money. There are enough cheaper bikes out there without any overpriced components. The problem really seems to be that there just aren't enough customers for the cheap bikes right now. And the brands and dealers dug their own grave by advertising the bikes with the overpriced components so much, so now people believe that the more affordable bike is crap, whereas it's really great and much more reliable than the overpriced top-end bikes.
the brands have always been sourcing from China, the Chinese have come to realize this and are releasing their own brands with good reason as they are not as greedy. 10k for any bike is pure theft
@charlesmansplainingI whent from slx gear shifter and derailleur to a deore derailleur and shifter (cheaper ) and there's a big difference lol the deore is rubbish
Yep. This is the most basic explanation. Too expensive for a bike. Sure they have to make money, but when you rob people, you get stuck sooner or later.
3.5k groupsets, 13k bikes and they wonder why sales are slowing, yes you can pick up “cheaper” options but 3-4k is becoming the new entry level! The cycling companies are destroying it for themselves but unfortunately taking down some excellent cycle stores in the process. The uk market is definitely not recovering, my local stores are massively struggling.
I work at a Giant dealer, we also carry Pivot and Cannondale. These companies are putting lower end components on $3000+ bikes and the savvy customers are not going for it. During the pandemic we would sell all the mountain bikes before they arrived. Now we only have the entry level, which aren’t selling, and the Pivots which have slowed way down. People just don’t have the extra money for expensive bikes, plain and simple.
Yup I agree and feel this so hard. I work as a bike mechanic and we sell cannondale too and wow they are garbage. Like I do not sell cannondales and often talk people out of buying them because of how insane they are in their pricing. It feels manipulate and like you are taking advantage of someone when people who want to get into biking come looking for a cannondale because it has brand recognition. But they don't know that their $800 hybrid has all a bottom level microshift trash drivetrain, and the weakest knock-off Promax brakes that do not bite or stop. It has a decent paint job, but you are paying like $300+ just to have the name cannondale written on your bike. It's disgusting and I always show people how horrible of a value cannondales are compared to pretty much any other hybrid from a good brand. I work at an rei so we sell co-op bikes and the cty 1.1 is actually a really good starter hybrid. It's $600 and you get a full shimano drivetrain, tektro cable disc brakes and wheels that are actually decent. Even on their 3k+ full sus mtbs they are speccing sram basic level brakes on 150mm Enduro lite bikes, putting non-tubeless ready maxis tires (which I didn't even know was an option), and putting some knock off 12sp chain on a shimano 12sp drivetrain which causes the chain to come off in the lowest gear because it doesn't grip the shimano chainring right. They push all they can onto the customer. The shock they use is a rockshock deluxe with what feels like a fake rebound knob that isn't even labeled fast/slow or +/-. Idk where they get this stuff it's like cannondale calls distributors and asks for the cheapest products possible and then from those cheap parts they pick the ones that failed qc so they can get them even cheaper. It honestly embarrasses me to have to sell cannondale. Not to mention the infuriating, blood pressure raising, trend of cannondale "innovating" (I cannot mean that any more sarcastically) solutions to problems they have invented using their proprietary bs whatever making it so your bike isn't compatible with any after market products so no you can't upgrade parts, and oh your ten year old cannondale needs service? Well hopefully you don't need parts cause they barely sell any for older bikes. Headshok, leftys... good luck. Then there is the added complexity of some of their idiotic design choices making a 20mins repair take hours cause this little plastic guide is crucial but over time it gets brittle and the spot it's in makes it craxk and there are no replacements cause it's more than 5 years old.... Cannondale as a company is a corpse being puppeteed by schwinn.
@@bobsaget3841 What about Cannondale older bikes ? I seen some that look like they are good bikes. I don't know about the newer stuff since I haven't looked for a bike in a while. I like what I have, which is older.
I was at a sport store, they had multiple 4-5k bikes on sale for -50% off. If they can sell them for -50% it means their profit margins are like 100% or more on a full priced bike. that is BS
The talon 1 is a good starter bike. Fwiw, if you have the budget you should look at the Stance 2. It now comes with a dropper and is tubeless ready . When in dale, it might be the best value in the market
Many of these comments are true. 1.) Gravel bikes may have taken away some of the mountain bike and road bike market because that is all a lot of people need. 2.) Inflation has hurt people in other areas and they have less disposable income. 3.) Many people who took up mountain biking out of boredom during covid were never active outdoor or athletic people in the first place and have gone back to their sedentary lifestyle, also putting really lightly used bikes on the market. 3.) Prices were and still are too high. I do know all of the materials and technology that goes into a bike and can appreciate that some who compete are willing to pay a premium but 15,000 or more for a bicycle is INSANE! I feel a person should be able to buy more than a 30lb hardtail with entry level components for $1,000. Even at $2,000 The bikes are not coming with upper level forks or groupsets...... I mean come on.
As a commercial electrician I was in a great position pre Covid, I had zero issues paying for groceries or bills and had a large disposable income. Post Covid with almost no change in my income, I struggle to buy groceries and pay bills and have zero disposable income.
Is that much for a bike if I'm paying that much for a bicycle it better come with a radio Empire come of a Away where I can't get hit by a car a better come with doors a roof essentially I want a manager car in a bike form if I'm paying $5000 for it
i haven't event spent that much on a car. can't imagine spending that kind of money on a bicycle and i've been riding bikes my whole life. used ones usaully because maintenance is dead simple
@@0xsergy cars and MTB bikes have nothing in common, you can not ride your car in the bike park hehehe. MTB bikes are not so dead simple to service and take care of,some components like suspension need some knowledge and tools. If you ride hard, bike park,enduro or DH you need to take care of your bike,you would break things and chew tires in a few days...It is like comparing a regular truck to a Baja 1000 truck when somebody thinks about expensive bikes being like cars...Most bikes are race ready,delivering a performance out of the box any regular dirt bike or car dreams about,so bikes are expensive,yes.
The reason why bikes are not selling is because they are OVERPRICED to the point of RIPOFF PRICES. For example a carbon fiber or aluminum frame only option stamped out in a CHINA or TAIWAN sweatshop should not cost 3 to 5 grand. Also the components wheels gears brakes shocks forks etc are also RIDICULOUSLY PRICED. People are buying used bikes or fixing older bikes with parts from junk yards or trashed bikes . Unless you are a sponsered rider or have money to burn these prices are NOT SUSTAINABLE. That is why bikes are not selling .
I remember a time here in the uK when a good mountain bike was something a teenager could ask Santa gift them for Christmas and it was attainable for parents. How many 15 year olds would even ask for a good entry level and reasonably well equipped mountain bike for Christmas now. They know that £3000 for an entry level bike as ludicrous and they know their parents can’t afford it. And that’s the next generation of new mountain bikers priced out of the market at entry point.
I put four fox coilovers and shocks on my F150 for $1200 the same company charging $1000+ for a fork made from aluminum and magnesium is insane it’s simple they got away with over charging for two years now that people don’t have money nobody will buy their overpriced products
It's the frames/suspension/wheels that are ridiculously high priced... The actual drivetrains and cockpit are cheap for MTB, but the price of frames and wheels are asinine.
Go look at Giant Manufacturing's public financial statements. Margins are 10-25%.. this is pretty standard and doesnt indicate greed. Its fine to be upset at high prices, but determining the root cause requires a higher level of thinking instead of blaming it on greed.
@@equi The margin is low simply because everyone outsources everything. The manufacturing is inefficient. There is no way that it actually costs $5k to build one of these things. If it does, they are doing it wrong. My last bike was a Madone 5.1. I put 10k miles on it and the bb90 bearings went out for the third time. Current one is a Emoda SL7. I look at it and can't really see the value. Just like electric cars, the industry is vulnerable to someone that ACTUALLY manufactures stuff to simply connect the dots, sell their own brand and WIPE OUT this market.
@@mortimersnerd9991I understand your frustration with high prices and concerns about manufacturing efficiency. However, it’s important to consider that many factors contribute to the cost of manufacturing a bike, including R&D, materials, labor, and logistics. Outsourcing can indeed lead to inefficiencies, but it also allows companies to leverage specialized expertise and cost savings in other areas. The bike industry, like many others, is complex, and while there is room for improvement, it’s not always as straightforward as it seems. Additionally, brands like Giant Manufacturing operate within industry standards for margins, which do not necessarily reflect greed but rather the cost structure and market dynamics.
@@mortimersnerd9991 I understand your frustration with high prices and concerns about manufacturing efficiency. However, it’s important to consider that many factors contribute to the cost of manufacturing a bike, including R&D, materials, labor, and logistics. Outsourcing can indeed lead to inefficiencies, but it also allows companies to leverage specialized expertise and cost savings in other areas. The bike industry, like many others, is complex, and while there is room for improvement, it’s not always as straightforward as it seems. Additionally, brands like Giant Manufacturing operate within industry standards for margins, which do not necessarily reflect greed but rather the cost structure and market dynamics.
I bought a 2022 Trek Fuel Ex 9.8 GX Eagle AXS for $3600 on close out last month in a trek store. It's a dream bike for me, carbon ever thing, wireless shifting, and it was 40% of what it was new. The deals are out there.
well the suspension on mtb is way more advanced then any other suspension out there. But ya a bike should not cost as much as motorcycles and used cars.
@@nastysoda9212 100% agree...I don't know where the MTB crowd get off thinking their equipment is the ants pants....Ride a modern dirt bike to understand how shocks and brakes SHOULD work!
I think mountain biking is a luxury as opposed to road and gravel biking. As someone who lives in a big inner city, you need a house with a garage and pick up truck with short commute to suburb nature and trails. Here in New York only the rich and millionaires have that luxury. On the contrary, there are plenty of opportunities for most ppl to enjoy road and gravel or all road riding from their doorstep Without trips out of town
I am sure some of these shops that are going out of business are good but some also got way too comfy when they didn't have to work to sell stuff. When I was trying to hunt down a SJ Evo in 2021, I got told by a shop "it's not worth our time" when I asked if they could work out a trade with a different bike shop to get it in. I even offered to pay shipping on both bikes. I went back to a small shop that I bought a bike from in 2019, they acted cold like they didn't know me. You burn those bridges then customers will never come back. I purchased 2 analog mtb during the pandemic and just got 2 e-mtb last month. I literally could not spend my money with these shops and now they may be hurting for business, I will never spend my money in those shops again.
Feel you on that. I had a similar experience at my local bike shop and haven't been back in years now. They wanted to act like they were the only shop in town and treat a long time customer bad.
I'm ordering from china now can't say the name of source cuz TH-cam doesn't allow it... But normal hard tail e MTB is around 500-1000€ depending on motor power
Simply put the bike industry has done it to itself. The mark ups during covid wont soon be forgotten. My local shop during covid was selling junk hard tails for over 2k and those were the start of the price range. Every dealer that participated in that should have lost their deals with the manufacturer but of course nothing would be done becasue the manufacturer simply doesnt care how bad they or the bike shop is ripping you off.
I’m glad you can sustain a business with $10k+ bikes. I have no way of getting a bike at that level, nor do I understand the appeal of paying that much for a bike.
Forks at 2k plus is just silly.. it’s not an engineering marvel, just a way over priced part. When high tech car shocks systems cost 1/4 the price, for a car, something is waaaaaay off.
It's not a fusion reactor but the engineering in forks and shocks truly amazing. One major difference between car and bike suspension needs is simple size. The parts in bike suspension are so much smaller and have to be able to withstand huge forces and neglect. You have bob who's 180-230, riding on a mtb that is 3 years old, has never been serviced not even a 50hr seal service, is always either way over inflated or under inflated and he beats the hell out of it. It really is impressive the resilience of these suspension components and what they get put through with just the average mtb rider. The tolerances are so much tighter and the machining has to be way more precise, and the materials have to be better because unlike in cars where straight mass and size can be used to add strength, bikes don't have that luxury. The shims inside the dampers in modern suspension are .015mm thick some times and the o-rings keeping the literally thousands of psi of compression force from blowing out the shock are the size of ball point pen head. And 2k is a stretch. Only the top level pro mtb downhill dual crown forks come close to that at $1900 retail. A brand new fox 38 factory fork is $1200, not cheap by any means but not 2k. And the tech inside is worth the money if you are an avid mtb rider. The fork is a product you will own for decades and you will be able to take it to different bikes if you are the kind of person who buys frames and builds up a bike. Even cane creeks brand new top of the line ultra light gravel suspension fork is $1000. The fork weights 990g which is 2lbs. That is amazing considering the demands it can withstand. Like many pieces of tech and engineering we have grown accustom to these products are high performance machines. The major challenge that high end bike products face is to find the balance between performance, weight, and durability. Everything is so small and precise, it takes a lot more finese to make these bike products which is why they are expensive.
I ride 10-12.000km/year, have multiple bikes, 2-3 road bikes, gravel bike, and 1 MTB. With my MTB I do 500-700 km/year, so I dont need to buy a new MTB in 10 years, current one is almost in a new condition, with 4000KM in it, and it's a 2017 bike.
After 20+ years in the industry, I firmly believe that we've priced ourselves out of a job. 15 years ago as a mechanic I could afford a top tier mtb (1st gen Santa Cruz Nomad) now Earning a much higher wage I could not afford to buy that same bike. Mountain Biking has become an elitist sport with fewer new people coming into it. We need regular bikes for regular people.
@@bushnut8305 I totally agree with you. I worked in a small bike shop 20 years ago. You could get a really nice bike for 1500 -2000. Now prices on bikes are through the roof. It really has almost become elitist. I have building up bikes on my own for years and recently built up a 2024 Niner Air 9. All of the new standards are a bit crazy and a turn off in my opinion.
One of my friends has a small shop selling new and used bikes. Only the sub 3000 before tax bikes are moving and scarce in the manufacturers warehouse. The pricey bikes are not moving at all piling up at warehouses not even reaching the shops. Actually 70% of his revenue now are used bikes. Not even mtb or road/gravel bikes but decades old shwinns and the like. Classics. Gets them for cheap. Refurbishing them for a decent profit. Manufacturers need to hold on to model lines for a minimum of 5 to 6 years. Not every year or 2. To bring costs down. The bike industry now is a carbon copy of the mobile phone industry.
Bike shops acted so ridiculous during Corona I bought all my own tools and learned to build bikes myself. Now i love wrenching and I’ll never go back. Buying parts online is awesome. A Yeti Arc is my next project and I love watching the prices come down. I have too many bikes. Ha
I think gravel bikes took a huge portion of the MTB market - for good. There are just very few people that truly go onto technical terrain. Most just ride paths in the forest. For this, any 40mm gravel bike is more than capable
You have a good point. One youtuber I forgot the name said that XC mtbing is practically dead because of gravel racing took over. Most of people that love mtbing already have the bike they want. There's no new market for new riders in that catagory.
@@bonbonflippers4298 The problem with XC is that most people that buy these bikes upwards of 3K have a mind to race them in events. XC events are stupidly expensive now. I used to pay €7 to race an XC event ten years ago and it was packed with riders. Now the same event is €50 , couple that with the travel costs, time and the fact that a decent carbon bike costs €7K and its not suprising the sport is dying at national and local levels.
I think XC mtbing is going to see a revival after Olympia in Paris and the glorious XC races there. Gravel is „not meat not fish“ (as we say in Germany). The handlebars for example are simply crap when you go off-road, plus the industry brought out WAY too many „special“ gravel bikes for every thinkable sort of different gravel - which is ridiculous, and shows that Covid pushed the industry up way too high for their own good… and now we see what happens after a hype! XC isn‘t dead at all…it will outlive gravel and we’re going to see that in the next few years.
@@bonbonflippers4298 Yes, XC is practically dead...but it has been dying a slow death for over 20 years now. It's not exactly like it happened overnight.
@@mikemiller756 Correct. Compare a MTB race to a gravel race. Which one attracts the most people?? Crashing down a stony steep or speeding down dirt roads?? Rgr
I really hope we can pressure the manufacturers into dropping the retail prices by 1-3k at least! I'm sorry if some manufacturers can't withstand the pressure but the prices for bikes and components (SRAM Red XPLR anyone?) got really out of hand!!! Almost no one's salaries went up enough to keep up with inflation of daily expenses. Meanwhile the bike industry just doubled down on price hikes
I remember people thought Kona were nuts doing buy one get one free but it’s exactly the same as 50% off but you get rid of twice as much stock. The last new bike I bought was a Chisel. It’s enough bike for me and I’ve been riding mountain bikes for more than 30 years. The last bike I bought was a tricross single cross I got on eBay for £42 (a little over $50). It rips. I can’t see me ever being in a position where spending more than say $3000 on a new bike. It’s just not worth it for me. That being said I ride all sorts of bikes so i take a cheaper more specific bike for a ride rather than having one or two bikes I use for everything. I currently have 10 ponies in the stable and I want a DSW crux and one of the full suspension chisels.
Probably because not everyone has a dentists wage to dump 5k-10k+$. Thank god for companies like Polygon and funny enough Ozark Trail that accomodates the average working folks.
Very True - I've been trying to learn about bikes so have been watching bike videos. People just rave about this $250 Ozark Trail G1 gravel bike. Then I see other brands like Poseidon and paying the price that the big brands ask represents extremely diminishing improvements.
Price is a huge part of the slow down, I am looking for old school used downhill bikes due to the price of the new ones. for the average rider 7-10k price tag in Canada for a new Downhill MTB is crazy. the price of new bikes since covid has gone way to high. great video information on the ongoing market.
Colorado here. Most MTB riders are hardened, veteran riders who can handle the terrain and climbing. All the newer riders are on gravel bikes they ride on pavement 95% of the time.
@@GCPerformance18 Instead of buying a new bike I upgraded some components (shock, fork & brakes) which improved my ride significantly without the expense of a new bike.
Glade you pointed that out, always interesting to see the pre Covid revenue and volumes. Based on that, fox yes have taken a hit but are still better than there trajectory of 2018.
yea but the sales even for that went down over year, that is maasive fall off, there i obviously not going to sustain covid numbers but the absolute stop is crazy
What to expect when bicycle prices have exceeded the price of cars, when product line engineering has created downhill models that cannot be used at all even on flat ground, not to mention hills..., when you have to buy about eight types of bicycle models with their current limitations to allow you to ride the varied terrain you encounter within 10 miles of your home. It's a pity, that in the day when technology allows the creation of wonderful bikes that in the past we could only dream of, commercial interests dictate the production of such bad bikes, leaving marketing the mission to convince us that "it's not a limitation, it's a feature"
My last two purchases have been used, mechanical shifting with rim brakes. My used Tarmac was the best purchase. New bikes are way too expensive, in my opinion.
This is because they priced most people out of the market since Covid. They became very greedy and bike prices are ridiculous. It’s not only MTB it’s Road bikes as well…The used market is flooded from all the previous impulse buyers who gave up riding in the last 3 years. It’s a buyers market for sure now!
I'm going to see a £3700 frame that's for sale locally for £1300, and I think I can chip them down 20% easy. Thing is, it was never worth £3700. I've seen frames online lately for £4K-£5K which is so beyond ridiculous idk if there's even a word for it, but for £1000-£1100, this frame's a banger. Tons of front forks around at half price now too (y)
Grant, I completely agree with you about lack of freetime now, especially with XC racing. Looking back 20 years ago when I was doing all the Florida state races, SERCs, NORBAs, 12 hours, and then local spring races, I was averaging over 20 races a year at peak. That's 20 weekends away from home a year, traveling on the road, buying hotels, etc. Then all the hours of mid-week training after school/work. And there were hundreds of us - in Florida alone - who did it. Now no one has that kind of time (or money) anymore. I think an appeal of gravel bikes, and gravel racing specifically, is there are only a handful of events per year that the average person does, so it's cheaper on the wallet and easier on the family because commitment is smaller.
The NORBA days were really the best. Back when mountain biking was fun and about hanging out with riding friends and running into common faces in that community. Now, everyone's weekend is taken up on side gigs :(
@@SurpriseMeJT Yeah, it's really sad to see. MTB really rode the whole 'extreme sport' craze of the 90's into the new millennia and it attracted some great people and was close-knit community. I officially quit in '07 after racing collegiate and pro for a brief period at the end. I saw the decline of racing over my decade of racing since the 90's, and then after retiring by occasionally looking at attendance on results sheets. Once the NORBA NCS series ended it was truly the end of American XC. Fortunately NICA has helped produced some younger talent in the women's side, but USAC is still a joke.
Let's be fair .. the most bike related companies got greedy during COVID .. that's why there are bikes that cost more then some people's car and that's just flat out scamming the customer and now that things are mostly back to normal those companies are the same crying out
There is also another factor you didn’t consider. I’m seeing more commencal, canyon and yt bikes on the trail than ever before. These direct to consumer brands are saving a customer $1-$2k on a new bike. Like a $2,300 yt Izzo core one is $1700 less than its comparable bikes from the major brands.
From 2010-2021ish, technology (frame geo, suspension design, forks/shocks, drivetrain, brakes and tires) were all evolving every year in mountain biking. There were measurable improvements every year AND prices were reasonable. Frame geometry has been figured out for each segment and improvements have tapered off. There's no reason to buy a new bike. Similar, or even worse, with road, but road is really fashion driven so people will buy bikes just to get something that looks nice even if there's no real performance gain.
Prices just became ridiculous at this point for MTBs; road bikes are even worse. Sure, some of it is down to innovation (wireless shifting) and inflation, but it's becoming harder and harder to justify spending so much on bikes when you can buy motorcycles for the same price. At least the local shops are doing well. It seems E-bikes opened a whole new service field and revenue stream. Good on them. But manufacturers lost the plot. Also, bikes are so good nowadays that you can shred them for many years.
You are comparing apples and bananas. Cheap motorcycles are cheap. People will see it as good value, when it's not. Kinda how I look at a Huffy. Not good value. But a Cervelo R3 is good value in my opinion. Or a Trek Emonda ALR disc. Both good value bikes. But those are 200,000 equivalence in motorcycle terms. Are you really gonna go there and say that 12k and 16k are the same, when one is for all out performance and the other is for Bob Jackson who is going to work? Nah. You are actually stupid comparing those.
@@diehardbikes Why are you starting with entry-level bikes and then switching to 12k vs 16k? You don't make much sense. What's your point exactly? You can also buy entry-level and high-end motorcycles? Let me guess: You are an American? Educate yourself, bro.
yea this is the trend very slowly, but I do not know what the correction looks like or how long wil take and what happens with all stores left with all over priced paid inventory that now can not make profits to stay inbusiness
@GCPerformance18 Many of them deserve to be out of business as the majority were busy gouging people during covid. I have a few bikes I've paid 5-6k for, but simply put the intense I paid 5k for in 2014 is every bit as good as the new junk for twice the price. Top end should be about 6-7k tops, bikes breaking 10-15k is a large joke on all bike enthusiasts.
I'm so glad. Best MTB in the world shouldn't be over 3K period... It's crazy that even an entry level mtb costs around $1000 now, I hope they loose as much as possible because of this extreme greed. Giving $3000-7000 for a bicycle is WILD!!
They just over saturated the market 2021-2023 and now we need a slow period to digest all the “used” but never really used) bikes out there. Everyone saying “too expensive”, but there are tons of lower-cost options-people think they need the $10k pro-spec model, but really don’t.
I see Enduro MTB trending downwards while XC and short travel trail bikes trending upward. E-MTB as flat but slowing. I think it’s a combination of the economy as well as trends within the industry and riders (the consumers).
Still rocking my 2 old hardtails from 1993 and 2011. They're good enough for what I ride. The 93 wasn't cheap for its time but it lasted. Now it's stripped down to the frame waiting for a rebuild.
Most anybody who wanted something during the pandemic has it. On top of that, every form of discretionary income is down. No stimulus checks, high inflation across the whole economy, all bad for throwing money at toys. There will still be the MD crowd whose idea of fiscal crunch is buying one new car a year instead of two, so I could see carbon road bikes keeping steady.
yea we are seeing this, everyone got what they wanted and needed during pandemic and now they are content with what they have because everything is too ridiculous to pay for
I work at a bike shop, but I work on the service side. However, I have noticed the entire shop, including sales being notably slower than even just last season. Service didn’t see the same rush in May through July this year as last, but still steady on the service side. Working in Canada, although not west coast, I think we see a relatively even split of road and mountain bikes going out the door, with a slight edge to road and gravel bikes, but still massively favouring hybrids.
At least here in Chile, unknow brands or chinese ones are taking space. As a daily cyclist i see a lot of "cheap" brands because Trek, Specialized and Orbea prices for example (Giant could be there but they still offer cheaper bikes than the others) are still TOO high, like they stayed on the COVID-19 era.
All the industry needs to do is invent another new standard, maybe something like “boost 149” or something. Then all the trendies will think their bikes are obsolete when they crack a carbon rim dropping a curb on that 7k enduro rig…
Thank you for the video, very interesting insights! I live in the Tahoe area and at least here it seems MTB shops still get away with service not focused on customer needs. A lot of people around here live in the Bay Area and still seem to have disposable income which is also benefiting the local bike shops. My personal frustration is with service appointments which ALL four shops in town refusee to offer. Meaning you drop off your bike for a e.g. a lower fork service and it gets serviced at a first come first serve basis. Consequently you might have to wait for two weeks to get back on the bike. I made my long term bike shop aware of my needs and they would not change their "process". My money goes now some place else and I happily drive for 40 minutes one way to an out of town shop. Further my friends and I started servicing bikes ourselves, except for complicated repairs and maintenance. This means we shop for tools and parts online and visit the local shops far less - so the occasional spontaneous buy is gone for the shops. I hope the current time will be a blessing with only those shops surviving that are able to organize themselves focused on the customer needs, rather their own convenience. This might be a special situation were I live and not applicable to other parts of the country.
I live in a pretty hot MTB area. The other thing I have observed is that with MTB's is that people have realized having xx1 or x01 really doesnt do anything for them. That GX or XT is just fine for their needs. It seems like people in mass are transitioning away from enduro bikes and going for XC/Downcountry style bikes. I dont think there has been big enough innovation in the MTB world since covid to justify people really wanting a new bike aside from them wanting a different bike. For example I have a 2019 SB150, today, when you buy it new you get the same exact fork and drive train that I got back in 2019, at least for the build i had. They did update the bike last year, but its so marginally different there is no reason to spend another 7k. If suspension tech had improved or geo had improved i would consider it, but until then there really isnt a reason. Combin this with the overstock of covid bikes and add on the covid riders who no longer ride, you get this hell storm of a market.
There is nothing to improve regarding geo… everything exists or existed already. It’s similar to the fashion industry: everything is coming back… we’re going to see steeper head angles in XC mtbing very soon .. as the industry „just“ discovered that these kind of frames are way more nimble and direct in handling.LOL
Yes- people bought the 7k “slacker “ bike only to find out they are the problem. I live in a mtb town- these 7k bikers can’t clear a very small table top . Let alone a 3 foot gap jump. I actually feel sorry for them. My 2016 specialized enduro can handle anything that 90% of the riders can throw at it. And that’s after 7 years of riding.
The average age of cyclists (road, mountain, gravel, everything but BMX) are aging out and into EMTBs. Make simple, durable off road cargo bikes for lower middle class prices, and there will be a market.
None of them are worth no more than $1500 They’re not worth 10 to 15,000 neither are worth $7000 a $300 Canadian tire to get back-and-forth to work and that last 5 to 7 years
As someone who used to renew each of my 3 bikes (MTB, e-MTB, road) each year to the top of the range, my 2 cents on why I didn’t in the last 3 years despite still being (luckily) able to: - Road: as we now know weight doesn’t matter as much as aero, I’m not sold on a couple hundred grams anymore. Transmission updates are marginally better and insanely more expensive. Don’t want to renew the gearing of my home trainer at the same time. Integrated cable routing, aero frame/cockpit and electronic shifting seen no breakthrough. Bigger tires being normalized solves the « comfort » issue of 2021-2 harshness. My expectations for the next gen are being ignored by brands : dropper + 1x on an aero and reasonably light package with enough modularity on the cockpit for native nice prolongators. - MTB: my stumpy evo is just too good vs the newer stuff and I already bought it at -35%. + seing MTB with the same equipment level of e-bikes sold for the same price as ebikes is just insulting for anyone’s intelligence. No notable innovations there and the geometry is getting on point. Suspensions are already excellent when maintained. - E-MTB: newer generation of motors and overall package weight are exploding right now but as they are expensive it’s better to wait to see if the hardware is mechanically reliable. Geometry is also on point and the weight makes these bikes more planted is so that there’s no need for as high end as a suspension package to reach better performances on the trail as standard MTB. And then the only massive innovation we need : NOT having to bleed / clean / solve braking power issues for gravity crowd just isn’t happening. Brakes in the (e)-mtb industry has been a JOKE for the last 20 years and require a RIDICULOUS amount of attention vs your grandpa’s car or your brother’s motorbike. And finally I used to be able to resell the fleet for a price that was correlated to the brand new ones I was looking for. It’s not happening anymore as new bike prices went crazy high and the resell value went crazy low. It’s a chain of value that’s being destroyed. Not just profits for these companies and they’re ignoring it.
@charlesmansplaining well the roady ones include brakes/shifters that are integrated unlike mtb hence the massive price difference to the equivalent mtb one
As a consumer, it's a pain to get a high end bike these days. I broke the frame of my mountain bike and needed a new XC race bike in January '23. The shop I race for couldn't get anything. Other shops in the area couldn't get anything. I ended up buying a used frame from Pro's Closet and having my local shop order all the parts for me. Then in September '23 I decided that my road bike needed to be replaced, so I had the shop order me a Scott Foil. Fast forward to July '24 and ETA was still 'maybe late fall'. My shop just started carrying Giant, and I was lucky to get a Propel last week. Back in the day, if you had the cash, you would have your new bike within the week. When I go to races, more people than ever have really nice mountain bikes-- way more than when I was a kid. I think this is all just fallout from politicians on both sides selling us out for their profit. If we would limit their interference, I"m sure the bike industry would get us amazing bikes without the crazy waits.
Mtbers are less elitist than roadies. Thats why. Roadies need a new thing every month. Mtbers just need a bike that goes down a hill and brakes half of the time
My reason is I have a hardtail that I have pretty much upgraded that suits all of my needs as a typical rider and I can't justify buying a new one that does exactly the same.
The bikes are so specialized that you can't ride them anywhere but big mountain and who has access to that daily? My 2000 mtb isn't overweight, oversized, and so slow geared that it's usable just about everywhere. Overpriced and overly specialized...
Great observation. The humble XC bike is what most people should get since most people don't live next to a mountain. Geometries are way too specialized (extreme?) towards all-mountain or DH which is useless for everyday pedaling.
I have an amazing, beautiful, vintage,,steel-frame, road bike and a pretty good, vintage mountain bike. As prices for everything go up, I keep repairing my car, my bikes, and everything else. I am also doing more and more of my maintenance and repairs. I am buying replacement parts and upgrading components.
Uk : Electricity 2020 used to be 6p/kwh it’s now (2024) 26p/kwh . I believe those prices are even worse for businesses as there’s no cap to the price. Food is mega expensive still. E.g Milk went from £1.00 for 2l to £1.80. Mortgage rates went from 0.5 to 8% or more….. and rents went from £1200 /month to £1800+ Uk: we blocked cheap Labour, so no drivers from Europe. There was a skills shortage of qualified drivers. So the day after euro drivers were blocked, uk drivers demand £30k pay rises, and got them. This largely kicked off the inflation death spiral because everything needs to be transported, so the cost of the pay rise needs adding to the item being delivered. Tldr: money is vanishing before you can spend it.
Other part is mountain bikes are expensive and most local shops doesn't offer a finance option and that is important So local bike shops check your local banks to see if it is something ya'll can workout and offer that option to the customer amd everyone wins you go out with a new bike, the bike shop gets paid and the bank is the one dealing with payments and making money also with interest
Most people buy mountain bike as a second bike. With money being tight, the secondary bike gets less attention. I also agree with the time thing. For me, I can leave my house and ride numerous roads. With a mountain bike I have to load it up and drive at least 30 minutes. I will say in Kentucky MTB race participation hasn’t really dropped off. People may be saving their money, keep racing their older bike.
6 years ago I bought my MTB with a mix of GX and NX group set, hydraulic brakes and fox 32 forks for 1500 AUD. It use to retail for 2200AUD. Nowadays, that same bike is 3000-3500 AUD.
These big bike brands should be consigning the bikes to the smaller dealers. The fact they can lower the price and make profit after they strong arm the shops into the spring orders cant continue.
Stores out here in Denver are FULL of bikes! I feel that, especially in MTB, the search for the right geometry, wheels sizes, and decent components has leveled off. Changes in bikes are so small year to year now there isn't a big reason to "upgrade". Now the prices need to come down. The Chinese brands are going to overtake the industry standard brands if they don't start selling to the average Joe.
This is going to sound crazy... I think bike companies should re-release popular bikes from the past like Cannondale Caad 10 or 90s Kona hardtail etc...
Forsure money and time!! Not everyone lives right next to a trail, it’s a whole process to pack up the bike, drive to the trail, ride (hopefully it’s not busy), pack it up and head home. I think that’s a huge reason why gravel bikes are so popular, you can literally get home from work and just ride. And I think that’s what majority of people want is just to get on a bike and ride, most people don’t care about the specs or the technology of these news bikes.. Especially for what they’re asking for em
Even Dave Arthur reviewed a full suspension Giant MTB. On the topic of new being sold through "used" outlets - this has been going on for a while. I have a local outoor/bike used reseller store. He gets approached first to unload the reps sample. Then they open accounts - become dealers. E-bike companies approach him and they are direct-to-consumer brands. I laughed at him during covid saying your going to end up way more of a bikeshop than you intended.
My local bike shops have lots of inventory. I’m completely happy with my bikes a bought a couple of years ago. No new technologies are out good enough to drop serious coin for a new one.
I don’t know about mountain bikes dying. But I do have a few thoughts on what’s going on. Mountain bikes have gotten so good in the last few years there is really no reason to replace them so often. I got a Trek fuel ex 9.7 in 22 and it’s the best most capable bike I have ridden in the last 30 years. It ticks all the boxes for me I see no reason to replace it any time soon. I upgraded it to GX AXS the day I brought it home. So outside of tires there is nothing on it I want to replace or upgrade. I’m guessing I’m not the only one. Also have you seen the prices on new Fox stuff. New forks are around $1000. It’s no wonder there not flying off shelves. Every place I ride has full parking lots all the time I think plenty of people are riding.
No wonder. MTBs are niche bikes, dedicated to a narower user segment: youngsters willing to risk their necks & bones speeding on the rocky mountains. MTB manufacturers should change, producing full-suspension bikes like Riese-Muller, adapted both for city ride (w. fenders, dynamos, luggage racks etc) and for off-road w. full Fox suspensions, nubby tires etc. Why should i pay double for an MTB and a separate gravel/city/road bike when i can have just one for all-around?
Who would have imagined, when Dentists and Doctors are the only ones able to afford the extravagant luxury bikes, no one else would buy any of it. Time to come back to reality, Bikes
@@EBikeBuilder_ in my country, flagship mountain bikes like the BMC Four Stroke, Specialized Epic Evo and Trek Supercaliber costs as much as a brand new economy car. Something's really wrong with the biking industry when bikes for the masses would cost more than an expressway-legal motorcycle and they tell you it's normal.
I would love to hear what you have noticed in your area. If you work at a store are mountain bikes still moving? Or if your a customer do you notice them as busy as they were before
My LBS is slow on MTB, road/gravel selling really well. Price cuts on MTB were deep, lower than 2021 pricing. They scaled back allocations for 25' and working with more dealers to trade stock.
I think you hit the spot w your analysis. I snatched an Epic Evo w a discount and got rid of the Brain Susp. Mountain bikers are way less receptive to new technology. Its a bit more of an isolated discipline so you don’t have to keep up w the Joneses. I used to buy a new Road Bike every year while in Florida. Moved to Idaho and still ride my R5 rim brake road bike. Why?!?! Because No one cares what you ride on a club ride. I think territory/market has a lot to do with it.
bought a current model hardtail at a lbs stealth advertised under fb marketplace for 60% off last year.
You can't buy a new bike every year , not at 10k , and they last 10 years easy ?
Even pinkbike OfferUp sales are not the same with bikes and parts
Record high inflation, unrealistic rent and grocery cost, electric bills rising, lower real wages, literally no one can afford to pay $6000 for a $2000 bike.
Thanks to Wall Street buying up residential housing stock. Legislation aught to be passed to protect the working and middle class folk to prevent those corporate gangs from doing this.
Yes, i think the bike nowadays cost like 5times more than they are really worth... i still remember buying a carbon mtb 10years ago for 2k which was the most expensive highend modell of this brand, buying something today which would be compareable would cost 16k😅 also... who pays 16k for a mtb when they can buy a nice motorcycle with it
A you living in Germany? 😂
@@ukyo6195 almost, i live in 1 of the other 3 german speaking countries. Why do you mean?
Lower real wages? ALL economic statistics in the US indicate the opposite.
Bike industry is dying because they are way too expensive. Industry greed is coming back to bite them. Just bought new tires for my bike and they cost the same a a tire for my car!!!
Yeah absolutly ridiculous😂
I 💯% agree.... totally over priced for years....bikes and parts, even kit etc.
Two new continentals tyres burgtek front chain ring and a magic link 🔗 £200 🫣😲
Yea tire prices are outrageous.
@@stephenroberts8538 Ouch.
Is dying for a reason same as other bike categories ......there is not many people out there who able to spend 8-15k for a bike every year 😂😂😂
No one is buying the 1-2k bikes either… 😂
The 8 to 15k probably yes but below this not
Agreed, I enjoy cycling but it's ridiculously overpriced like everything else in this world right now. Not everybody can afford this sport, and some that are able are beginning to get tired of the nonsense. Enough is enough.😅
@@glace5620 2nd hand bikes are ok. Rim brake bikes are very cheap.
@@laurenz323 my dream bike has rim brakes. I just can't get into all of the fancy overpriced stuff like some of my friends. I don't need electronic shifting, etc and all that. I am training, staying in shape etc, but I'm not participating in a Tour de France so I don't really feel like I need it
When money is tight, hobbies are the first thing cut.
Why is that ? i rather would stop drinking or smoking or 1000 other things than stop my hobby wtf^^
Luxuries are the first. Boats, watches, fashion, sports cars, etc. You can include some hobbies in that too, for sure. Or at least "needing the best". I think people will still bike, but find the joy in the old bike or a cheap one.
Wrong. Luxury items are the first to go.
usually when money is tight they dont continue hobbies and they use that hobby time to find more income with a second job or a side hustle
@@billscott6819 I bought a cheap one and have fun with that........ got to pay my bills to make sure I got a place to live.
When your cost of living, rent, food jump 20 to 40%, $6000 bikes don't get bought.
Inflation, overpriced bikes/components, and covid MTB boom is over. No one needs to buy a new bike every 1-3 years especially at these ridiculous prices, ppl are holding on to what they have.
Correct!
Mountain bikes have also gotten good enough that riders can keep them for a few years with only basic maintenance and replacement. When I started riding in the 90's, mountain bikes were clapped out after one season.
@@mikemiller756 …not if you had a good bike back in the 90s. This was actually the golden era of mtb‘s (early to mid 90s) when American brands built their bike frames themselves in the US! Not in Taiwan … and the original founders still were the CEO‘s of their companies. BEFORE some big players came and bought their work (KLEIN, Yeti etc. etc.).
Inflation is too small to count it in but sellers are just idiots... no more service and prices..... i build all mtb for half the price myself when i buy the parts seperate... they add 50% for maybe 10 Hours of work dude^^
@@bikemike1118r right then when I started with MTB and went through a couple of drive trains. But never broke anything.
I own a small bike workshop, July was the busiest month I've ever had.
As people have mentioned, looking after your "old" bike is the better option.
July was absolutely bonkers for bike service. June too.
thats great to hear, yea our service department for us was crazy in the winter time for season but for summer it was dead slow, no one is riding right now it is so hot
where you located?
@@GCPerformance18 Hey dude! Devon in South West England, busy season here is May-June-July, tails off a bit through August.
True. There are thousands of videos of bike maintenance in youtube. And while I really like to support my local shops and take my bike there for a service, I also started to buy tools to service my bike, at least the bare essentials.
When people can’t afford groceries the last thing they are going to do is buy new gear.
Especially when the old one still runs well…
same here in the UK
Biden’s plan is working well
especially when the margins may be pretty high
So in your opinion people who were able to buy 5k MTBs in the past can't buy groceries today? Struggling people never bought high priced bikes
$10000 for a bicycle is ridiculous.
Yup! Unless a person races and needs the best…
@@tiggs5591 True that but 90% of performance at a race is dependent on the rider.
@@tiggs5591Those pro riders could do just as good on a $3000 Trek bike as on the stupid $11000 S Works.
That's absolutely fantastic news. Fuck the bike industry for milking people during COVID.
Yes exactly
Nah, fuck them for the e-bikes clown show.
Bikes and components are mind bogglingly expensive. This applies to road bikes also. Wheel sets for $4,000? 3D printed saddles for $450? WTF? Especially when we are starting to be suspicious that brands are sourcing component from China and marking them up more than 10x… Feeling taken advantage of.
Those overpriced components exist for the customers that want to spend that much money. There are enough cheaper bikes out there without any overpriced components. The problem really seems to be that there just aren't enough customers for the cheap bikes right now. And the brands and dealers dug their own grave by advertising the bikes with the overpriced components so much, so now people believe that the more affordable bike is crap, whereas it's really great and much more reliable than the overpriced top-end bikes.
the brands have always been sourcing from China, the Chinese have come to realize this and are releasing their own brands with good reason as they are not as greedy. 10k for any bike is pure theft
@@davidm8394 No, I think they only started sourcing so much from China in the era of pre-preg carbon-fiber layups.
@charlesmansplaining believe that happens because they want to reduce weight. So they remove material. It ends up less durable.
@charlesmansplainingI whent from slx gear shifter and derailleur to a deore derailleur and shifter (cheaper ) and there's a big difference lol the deore is rubbish
We ain't paying those prices anymore
" We're not going to take it ......anymore "
Yep. This is the most basic explanation. Too expensive for a bike. Sure they have to make money, but when you rob people, you get stuck sooner or later.
3.5k groupsets, 13k bikes and they wonder why sales are slowing, yes you can pick up “cheaper” options but 3-4k is becoming the new entry level! The cycling companies are destroying it for themselves but unfortunately taking down some excellent cycle stores in the process. The uk market is definitely not recovering, my local stores are massively struggling.
Yeah... i love mtb-ing, but i stay with my mtb from 2014 and just buy new motorcycles for that money
I work at a Giant dealer, we also carry Pivot and Cannondale. These companies are putting lower end components on $3000+ bikes and the savvy customers are not going for it. During the pandemic we would sell all the mountain bikes before they arrived. Now we only have the entry level, which aren’t selling, and the Pivots which have slowed way down. People just don’t have the extra money for expensive bikes, plain and simple.
Yup I agree and feel this so hard. I work as a bike mechanic and we sell cannondale too and wow they are garbage. Like I do not sell cannondales and often talk people out of buying them because of how insane they are in their pricing. It feels manipulate and like you are taking advantage of someone when people who want to get into biking come looking for a cannondale because it has brand recognition. But they don't know that their $800 hybrid has all a bottom level microshift trash drivetrain, and the weakest knock-off Promax brakes that do not bite or stop. It has a decent paint job, but you are paying like $300+ just to have the name cannondale written on your bike. It's disgusting and I always show people how horrible of a value cannondales are compared to pretty much any other hybrid from a good brand. I work at an rei so we sell co-op bikes and the cty 1.1 is actually a really good starter hybrid. It's $600 and you get a full shimano drivetrain, tektro cable disc brakes and wheels that are actually decent. Even on their 3k+ full sus mtbs they are speccing sram basic level brakes on 150mm Enduro lite bikes, putting non-tubeless ready maxis tires (which I didn't even know was an option), and putting some knock off 12sp chain on a shimano 12sp drivetrain which causes the chain to come off in the lowest gear because it doesn't grip the shimano chainring right. They push all they can onto the customer. The shock they use is a rockshock deluxe with what feels like a fake rebound knob that isn't even labeled fast/slow or +/-. Idk where they get this stuff it's like cannondale calls distributors and asks for the cheapest products possible and then from those cheap parts they pick the ones that failed qc so they can get them even cheaper. It honestly embarrasses me to have to sell cannondale. Not to mention the infuriating, blood pressure raising, trend of cannondale "innovating" (I cannot mean that any more sarcastically) solutions to problems they have invented using their proprietary bs whatever making it so your bike isn't compatible with any after market products so no you can't upgrade parts, and oh your ten year old cannondale needs service? Well hopefully you don't need parts cause they barely sell any for older bikes. Headshok, leftys... good luck. Then there is the added complexity of some of their idiotic design choices making a 20mins repair take hours cause this little plastic guide is crucial but over time it gets brittle and the spot it's in makes it craxk and there are no replacements cause it's more than 5 years old.... Cannondale as a company is a corpse being puppeteed by schwinn.
@@bobsaget3841 What about Cannondale older bikes ? I seen some that look like they are good bikes. I don't know about the newer stuff since I haven't looked for a bike in a while. I like what I have, which is older.
I was at a sport store, they had multiple 4-5k bikes on sale for -50% off. If they can sell them for -50% it means their profit margins are like 100% or more on a full priced bike. that is BS
He would you recommend the talon 1 mtb for a starter trying to get serious about riding
The talon 1 is a good starter bike. Fwiw, if you have the budget you should look at the Stance 2. It now comes with a dropper and is tubeless ready . When in dale, it might be the best value in the market
Many of these comments are true. 1.) Gravel bikes may have taken away some of the mountain bike and road bike market because that is all a lot of people need. 2.) Inflation has hurt people in other areas and they have less disposable income. 3.) Many people who took up mountain biking out of boredom during covid were never active outdoor or athletic people in the first place and have gone back to their sedentary lifestyle, also putting really lightly used bikes on the market. 3.) Prices were and still are too high. I do know all of the materials and technology that goes into a bike and can appreciate that some who compete are willing to pay a premium but 15,000 or more for a bicycle is INSANE! I feel a person should be able to buy more than a 30lb hardtail with entry level components for $1,000. Even at $2,000 The bikes are not coming with upper level forks or groupsets...... I mean come on.
As a commercial electrician I was in a great position pre Covid, I had zero issues paying for groceries or bills and had a large disposable income. Post Covid with almost no change in my income, I struggle to buy groceries and pay bills and have zero disposable income.
How long did they really think they could sell $5000 bikes til everyone that could afford one already has one?
Is that much for a bike if I'm paying that much for a bicycle it better come with a radio Empire come of a Away where I can't get hit by a car a better come with doors a roof essentially I want a manager car in a bike form if I'm paying $5000 for it
i haven't event spent that much on a car. can't imagine spending that kind of money on a bicycle and i've been riding bikes my whole life. used ones usaully because maintenance is dead simple
@@0xsergy cars and MTB bikes have nothing in common, you can not ride your car in the bike park hehehe. MTB bikes are not so dead simple to service and take care of,some components like suspension need some knowledge and tools. If you ride hard, bike park,enduro or DH you need to take care of your bike,you would break things and chew tires in a few days...It is like comparing a regular truck to a Baja 1000 truck when somebody thinks about expensive bikes being like cars...Most bikes are race ready,delivering a performance out of the box any regular dirt bike or car dreams about,so bikes are expensive,yes.
The reason why bikes are not selling is because they are OVERPRICED to the point of RIPOFF PRICES. For example a carbon fiber or aluminum frame only option stamped out in a CHINA or TAIWAN sweatshop should not cost 3 to 5 grand. Also the components wheels gears brakes shocks forks etc are also RIDICULOUSLY PRICED. People are buying used bikes or fixing older bikes with parts from junk yards or trashed bikes . Unless you are a sponsered rider or have money to burn these prices are NOT SUSTAINABLE. That is why bikes are not selling .
It's not dying. It's just that everything is way way overpriced. There was a time when you could buy a solid XT equipt bike for $1500.
Trek Elite 9.8 OCLV with full XT in '04 was right around $2k after discounts. Will never see prices like that again.
Yea now they are putting LX on $5000 bikes 😡
Trek remedy I bought it around 2012 full top noch Gear 3.5k 😂😂 U can dream on price like that now
I remember a time here in the uK when a good mountain bike was something a teenager could ask Santa gift them for Christmas and it was attainable for parents. How many 15 year olds would even ask for a good entry level and reasonably well equipped mountain bike for Christmas now.
They know that £3000 for an entry level bike as ludicrous and they know their parents can’t afford it.
And that’s the next generation of new mountain bikers priced out of the market at entry point.
I agree, you can buy a Kawasaki ninja 500 for the same price as a good MTB, how does that relate?
I put four fox coilovers and shocks on my F150 for $1200 the same company charging $1000+ for a fork made from aluminum and magnesium is insane it’s simple they got away with over charging for two years now that people don’t have money nobody will buy their overpriced products
Daaaaang that’s crazy. Really puts that into perspective. I knew forks were overpriced but that’s nuts
im sorry no bike part should cost more then a performance part on a car
I can afford it but im not paying 7k plus for a bike.
You don’t need to. A rail 5 is 3k
You can get a used Huffy for 100 bucks and have the time of your life :) 7,000 is a LOT of dough for a bike.....
I left because it’s too expensive, they’re driving customers extinct
Good point!
It's the frames/suspension/wheels that are ridiculously high priced... The actual drivetrains and cockpit are cheap for MTB, but the price of frames and wheels are asinine.
Same. I thought I’d buy one but nah. Even private resell are delusional with full price
@@mikemiller756drivetrains are crazy too nowadays
£3000 for an average bike is just a theft
They overpriced the market.. They got tooooo greedy 😂😂😂
Go look at Giant Manufacturing's public financial statements. Margins are 10-25%.. this is pretty standard and doesnt indicate greed. Its fine to be upset at high prices, but determining the root cause requires a higher level of thinking instead of blaming it on greed.
@@equi The margin is low simply because everyone outsources everything. The manufacturing is inefficient. There is no way that it actually costs $5k to build one of these things. If it does, they are doing it wrong. My last bike was a Madone 5.1. I put 10k miles on it and the bb90 bearings went out for the third time. Current one is a Emoda SL7. I look at it and can't really see the value. Just like electric cars, the industry is vulnerable to someone that ACTUALLY manufactures stuff to simply connect the dots, sell their own brand and WIPE OUT this market.
@@mortimersnerd9991most of the bikes are being made over seas now too. So the manufacturing is way cheaper over there.
@@mortimersnerd9991I understand your frustration with high prices and concerns about manufacturing efficiency. However, it’s important to consider that many factors contribute to the cost of manufacturing a bike, including R&D, materials, labor, and logistics. Outsourcing can indeed lead to inefficiencies, but it also allows companies to leverage specialized expertise and cost savings in other areas. The bike industry, like many others, is complex, and while there is room for improvement, it’s not always as straightforward as it seems. Additionally, brands like Giant Manufacturing operate within industry standards for margins, which do not necessarily reflect greed but rather the cost structure and market dynamics.
@@mortimersnerd9991 I understand your frustration with high prices and concerns about manufacturing efficiency. However, it’s important to consider that many factors contribute to the cost of manufacturing a bike, including R&D, materials, labor, and logistics. Outsourcing can indeed lead to inefficiencies, but it also allows companies to leverage specialized expertise and cost savings in other areas. The bike industry, like many others, is complex, and while there is room for improvement, it’s not always as straightforward as it seems. Additionally, brands like Giant Manufacturing operate within industry standards for margins, which do not necessarily reflect greed but rather the cost structure and market dynamics.
Overpriced bikes and bike parks keep hiking their pass prices. 80 to 120 bucks for a day pass? What a joke.
120 usd for a day is cheap. Zermatt - Gornergrat, up and down is 132 chf just oce, without a bicycle.
@@csuporjthat just means zermatt is overpriced.
I’m solid middle class with NO play money or free time. I have no debt. It’s simply the new COST OF LIVING. Vote this Fall!!
I bought a 2022 Trek Fuel Ex 9.8 GX Eagle AXS for $3600 on close out last month in a trek store. It's a dream bike for me, carbon ever thing, wireless shifting, and it was 40% of what it was new. The deals are out there.
Bikes are overpriced anyways, same price as a new motorcycle with far less technology
well the suspension on mtb is way more advanced then any other suspension out there. But ya a bike should not cost as much as motorcycles and used cars.
@@wafflemechanic1111 people like you are why prices are so bad. The suspension on a yz250 is amazing and insanely stout. my fox float x2 is pos
@@nastysoda9212 100% agree...I don't know where the MTB crowd get off thinking their equipment is the ants pants....Ride a modern dirt bike to understand how shocks and brakes SHOULD work!
@wafflemechanic1111 No, it's not. It's the same as moto or trucks. Pistons and shims. Been that way for years.
@@wafflemechanic1111ok then why are top road bikes $13k? I can buy a new Kawasaki ninja for less.
I think mountain biking is a luxury as opposed to road and gravel biking. As someone who lives in a big inner city, you need a house with a garage and pick up truck with short commute to suburb nature and trails. Here in New York only the rich and millionaires have that luxury. On the contrary, there are plenty of opportunities for most ppl to enjoy road and gravel or all road riding from their doorstep Without trips out of town
I am sure some of these shops that are going out of business are good but some also got way too comfy when they didn't have to work to sell stuff. When I was trying to hunt down a SJ Evo in 2021, I got told by a shop "it's not worth our time" when I asked if they could work out a trade with a different bike shop to get it in. I even offered to pay shipping on both bikes. I went back to a small shop that I bought a bike from in 2019, they acted cold like they didn't know me. You burn those bridges then customers will never come back. I purchased 2 analog mtb during the pandemic and just got 2 e-mtb last month. I literally could not spend my money with these shops and now they may be hurting for business, I will never spend my money in those shops again.
Feel you on that. I had a similar experience at my local bike shop and haven't been back in years now. They wanted to act like they were the only shop in town and treat a long time customer bad.
I'm ordering from china now can't say the name of source cuz TH-cam doesn't allow it... But normal hard tail e MTB is around 500-1000€ depending on motor power
Simply put the bike industry has done it to itself. The mark ups during covid wont soon be forgotten. My local shop during covid was selling junk hard tails for over 2k and those were the start of the price range. Every dealer that participated in that should have lost their deals with the manufacturer but of course nothing would be done becasue the manufacturer simply doesnt care how bad they or the bike shop is ripping you off.
I’m glad you can sustain a business with $10k+ bikes. I have no way of getting a bike at that level, nor do I understand the appeal of paying that much for a bike.
He lives in some mega rich county in Florida. Not regular economy there.
I mean it is a high volume income area and even now th ecustomers have so much competition because there are so many stores
@@charliedillon1400 wait people by 10k dollar mtn bikes on Florida? and ride what with it?
Forks at 2k plus is just silly.. it’s not an engineering marvel, just a way over priced part. When high tech car shocks systems cost 1/4 the price, for a car, something is waaaaaay off.
It's not a fusion reactor but the engineering in forks and shocks truly amazing. One major difference between car and bike suspension needs is simple size. The parts in bike suspension are so much smaller and have to be able to withstand huge forces and neglect. You have bob who's 180-230, riding on a mtb that is 3 years old, has never been serviced not even a 50hr seal service, is always either way over inflated or under inflated and he beats the hell out of it. It really is impressive the resilience of these suspension components and what they get put through with just the average mtb rider. The tolerances are so much tighter and the machining has to be way more precise, and the materials have to be better because unlike in cars where straight mass and size can be used to add strength, bikes don't have that luxury. The shims inside the dampers in modern suspension are .015mm thick some times and the o-rings keeping the literally thousands of psi of compression force from blowing out the shock are the size of ball point pen head. And 2k is a stretch. Only the top level pro mtb downhill dual crown forks come close to that at $1900 retail. A brand new fox 38 factory fork is $1200, not cheap by any means but not 2k. And the tech inside is worth the money if you are an avid mtb rider. The fork is a product you will own for decades and you will be able to take it to different bikes if you are the kind of person who buys frames and builds up a bike. Even cane creeks brand new top of the line ultra light gravel suspension fork is $1000. The fork weights 990g which is 2lbs. That is amazing considering the demands it can withstand. Like many pieces of tech and engineering we have grown accustom to these products are high performance machines. The major challenge that high end bike products face is to find the balance between performance, weight, and durability. Everything is so small and precise, it takes a lot more finese to make these bike products which is why they are expensive.
It's just simple capitalism, they are not going to price it "fairly" they are going to charge the most possible.
Yeah parts for motorcycle are cheaper than parts for bicycles now
The suspension for my Dacia costs about 50 euro for one wheel. Original piece, made by Dacia Renault.
You sound like you work for FOX 😅@@bobsaget3841
I just bought a 2000 Rockhopper for $150 and couldn't be happier. No one in their right mind should pay $3-5k for a used bike. I see so many online.
I bought a Huffy Magellan for $35 and after I tuned it up and trued the wheels it rides just as good as any other bike.
How did you manage to haggle that low?
@HOMELESSG0D it's a junk $300 Huffy, it's only worth $50-75 used in excellent shape.
I ride 10-12.000km/year, have multiple bikes, 2-3 road bikes, gravel bike, and 1 MTB. With my MTB I do 500-700 km/year, so I dont need to buy a new MTB in 10 years, current one is almost in a new condition, with 4000KM in it, and it's a 2017 bike.
same here.
After 20+ years in the industry, I firmly believe that we've priced ourselves out of a job. 15 years ago as a mechanic I could afford a top tier mtb (1st gen Santa Cruz Nomad) now Earning a much higher wage I could not afford to buy that same bike. Mountain Biking has become an elitist sport with fewer new people coming into it. We need regular bikes for regular people.
@@bushnut8305 I totally agree with you. I worked in a small bike shop 20 years ago. You could get a really nice bike for 1500 -2000. Now prices on bikes are through the roof. It really has almost become elitist. I have building up bikes on my own for years and recently built up a 2024 Niner Air 9. All of the new standards are a bit crazy and a turn off in my opinion.
One of my friends has a small shop selling new and used bikes. Only the sub 3000 before tax bikes are moving and scarce in the manufacturers warehouse. The pricey bikes are not moving at all piling up at warehouses not even reaching the shops. Actually 70% of his revenue now are used bikes. Not even mtb or road/gravel bikes but decades old shwinns and the like. Classics. Gets them for cheap. Refurbishing them for a decent profit.
Manufacturers need to hold on to model lines for a minimum of 5 to 6 years. Not every year or 2. To bring costs down. The bike industry now is a carbon copy of the mobile phone industry.
Bike shops acted so ridiculous during Corona I bought all my own tools and learned to build bikes myself. Now i love wrenching and I’ll never go back. Buying parts online is awesome. A Yeti Arc is my next project and I love watching the prices come down. I have too many bikes. Ha
Perfect! I'm slowly getting there as well and enjoy the process
@@ralfschoenbrunner TH-cam is a great resource. Once you learn it’s not hard. Tools are cheap too
@@jasoncrandall How many bikes have you built ? I was thinking of doing the same......
@@MrQmason I’ve built 6. I’m out of room. It’s very addictive. So many parts online. Endless customizability. I love it.
Exactly what happened to me and ended up building my Arc as well
I'm 17 and i literally rushed to get a job just so i can hopefully save enough for a decent full sus.
Just buy 2 year's used one with all the paper and service made
I think gravel bikes took a huge portion of the MTB market - for good. There are just very few people that truly go onto technical terrain. Most just ride paths in the forest. For this, any 40mm gravel bike is more than capable
You have a good point. One youtuber I forgot the name said that XC mtbing is practically dead because of gravel racing took over. Most of people that love mtbing already have the bike they want. There's no new market for new riders in that catagory.
@@bonbonflippers4298 The problem with XC is that most people that buy these bikes upwards of 3K have a mind to race them in events. XC events are stupidly expensive now. I used to pay €7 to race an XC event ten years ago and it was packed with riders. Now the same event is €50 , couple that with the travel costs, time and the fact that a decent carbon bike costs €7K and its not suprising the sport is dying at national and local levels.
I think XC mtbing is going to see a revival after Olympia in Paris and the glorious XC races there.
Gravel is „not meat not fish“ (as we say in Germany). The handlebars for example are simply crap when you go off-road, plus the industry brought out WAY too many „special“ gravel bikes for every thinkable sort of different gravel - which is ridiculous, and shows that Covid pushed the industry up way too high for their own good… and now we see what happens after a hype! XC isn‘t dead at all…it will outlive gravel and we’re going to see that in the next few years.
@@bonbonflippers4298 Yes, XC is practically dead...but it has been dying a slow death for over 20 years now. It's not exactly like it happened overnight.
@@mikemiller756 Correct. Compare a MTB race to a gravel race. Which one attracts the most people?? Crashing down a stony steep or speeding down dirt roads?? Rgr
Theft is one big thing as well. People get away with theft now days which puts me off having some expensive new bike.
Went to the movies. 2 adults and a kid. Small 2 sodas and a med popcorn. $75
I really hope we can pressure the manufacturers into dropping the retail prices by 1-3k at least! I'm sorry if some manufacturers can't withstand the pressure but the prices for bikes and components (SRAM Red XPLR anyone?) got really out of hand!!!
Almost no one's salaries went up enough to keep up with inflation of daily expenses. Meanwhile the bike industry just doubled down on price hikes
I am not sorry... i hope all this greedy bike companies need to close! I mean: 18k for a mtb is stupid, a new kawasaki zx10r cost also 18k
@@NocturnalShogun in the end it won't be the manufacturers that will get hit the hardest but the small local bike shops :/
My local Specialized store is closing they have a 70% off clearance sale.
Buy me a turbo Levo😢
where at?
@@coryhigginbotham1705 Not US
Maybe they shouldn’t have been so overpriced. Oh well see yah!
@@whatfreedom7 It wasnt just pricing, out of the four bikeshops in my town yhey had the worst service. I could see it coming years ago.
I remember people thought Kona were nuts doing buy one get one free but it’s exactly the same as 50% off but you get rid of twice as much stock.
The last new bike I bought was a Chisel. It’s enough bike for me and I’ve been riding mountain bikes for more than 30 years. The last bike I bought was a tricross single cross I got on eBay for £42 (a little over $50). It rips.
I can’t see me ever being in a position where spending more than say $3000 on a new bike. It’s just not worth it for me. That being said I ride all sorts of bikes so i take a cheaper more specific bike for a ride rather than having one or two bikes I use for everything.
I currently have 10 ponies in the stable and I want a DSW crux and one of the full suspension chisels.
Probably because not everyone has a dentists wage to dump 5k-10k+$. Thank god for companies like Polygon and funny enough Ozark Trail that accomodates the average working folks.
Very True - I've been trying to learn about bikes so have been watching bike videos. People just rave about this $250 Ozark Trail G1 gravel bike. Then I see other brands like Poseidon and paying the price that the big brands ask represents extremely diminishing improvements.
I'm an average working folk, who's job just happens to pay well.
@@stevedzurilla2436 have a gold star, mummies special soldier
People finally understood that gravel (basically 90s MTB) is all they need for a quick ride)
Price is a huge part of the slow down, I am looking for old school used downhill bikes due to the price of the new ones. for the average rider 7-10k price tag in Canada for a new Downhill MTB is crazy. the price of new bikes since covid has gone way to high. great video information on the ongoing market.
Colorado here. Most MTB riders are hardened, veteran riders who can handle the terrain and climbing. All the newer riders are on gravel bikes they ride on pavement 95% of the time.
yea maybe gravel took away a big portion of those sales, but yea I am seeing more and more older heavy mtb crew hold onto there equipment longer
@@GCPerformance18 Instead of buying a new bike I upgraded some components (shock, fork & brakes) which improved my ride significantly without the expense of a new bike.
Fox revenue (not sales) went up for 113% from 2019 until 2022 … 2023 was -9% … so still lot of margin
Glade you pointed that out, always interesting to see the pre Covid revenue and volumes. Based on that, fox yes have taken a hit but are still better than there trajectory of 2018.
yea but the sales even for that went down over year, that is maasive fall off, there i obviously not going to sustain covid numbers but the absolute stop is crazy
What to expect when bicycle prices have exceeded the price of cars, when product line engineering has created downhill models that cannot be used at all even on flat ground, not to mention hills..., when you have to buy about eight types of bicycle models with their current limitations to allow you to ride the varied terrain you encounter within 10 miles of your home. It's a pity, that in the day when technology allows the creation of wonderful bikes that in the past we could only dream of, commercial interests dictate the production of such bad bikes, leaving marketing the mission to convince us that "it's not a limitation, it's a feature"
My last two purchases have been used, mechanical shifting with rim brakes. My used Tarmac was the best purchase. New bikes are way too expensive, in my opinion.
Yep, even considerably more expensive than decent motorcycles! Which was unthinkable a few years back.
@@aaronhamlen8215 Agreed. Ridiculous prices.
Same here, I bought a 1990s MTB because it’s affordable
This is because they priced most people out of the market since Covid. They became very greedy and bike prices are ridiculous. It’s not only MTB it’s Road bikes as well…The used market is flooded from all the previous impulse buyers who gave up riding in the last 3 years. It’s a buyers market for sure now!
I'm going to see a £3700 frame that's for sale locally for £1300, and I think I can chip them down 20% easy. Thing is, it was never worth £3700. I've seen frames online lately for £4K-£5K which is so beyond ridiculous idk if there's even a word for it, but for £1000-£1100, this frame's a banger. Tons of front forks around at half price now too (y)
I just got a used Kona Lanai off a coworker for $400. New $700 where I’m at. Best money I ever spent. He hardly used it, looks brand new!
Grant, I completely agree with you about lack of freetime now, especially with XC racing. Looking back 20 years ago when I was doing all the Florida state races, SERCs, NORBAs, 12 hours, and then local spring races, I was averaging over 20 races a year at peak. That's 20 weekends away from home a year, traveling on the road, buying hotels, etc. Then all the hours of mid-week training after school/work. And there were hundreds of us - in Florida alone - who did it. Now no one has that kind of time (or money) anymore. I think an appeal of gravel bikes, and gravel racing specifically, is there are only a handful of events per year that the average person does, so it's cheaper on the wallet and easier on the family because commitment is smaller.
The NORBA days were really the best. Back when mountain biking was fun and about hanging out with riding friends and running into common faces in that community. Now, everyone's weekend is taken up on side gigs :(
@@SurpriseMeJT Yeah, it's really sad to see. MTB really rode the whole 'extreme sport' craze of the 90's into the new millennia and it attracted some great people and was close-knit community. I officially quit in '07 after racing collegiate and pro for a brief period at the end. I saw the decline of racing over my decade of racing since the 90's, and then after retiring by occasionally looking at attendance on results sheets. Once the NORBA NCS series ended it was truly the end of American XC. Fortunately NICA has helped produced some younger talent in the women's side, but USAC is still a joke.
Let's be fair .. the most bike related companies got greedy during COVID .. that's why there are bikes that cost more then some people's car and that's just flat out scamming the customer and now that things are mostly back to normal those companies are the same crying out
I hope this companies need to close to make room for new companies without that greedy mindset
There is also another factor you didn’t consider. I’m seeing more commencal, canyon and yt bikes on the trail than ever before. These direct to consumer brands are saving a customer $1-$2k on a new bike. Like a $2,300 yt Izzo core one is $1700 less than its comparable bikes from the major brands.
From 2010-2021ish, technology (frame geo, suspension design, forks/shocks, drivetrain, brakes and tires) were all evolving every year in mountain biking. There were measurable improvements every year AND prices were reasonable. Frame geometry has been figured out for each segment and improvements have tapered off. There's no reason to buy a new bike. Similar, or even worse, with road, but road is really fashion driven so people will buy bikes just to get something that looks nice even if there's no real performance gain.
They laid out the tech gradually to keep you interested. They can't reinvent the axle anymore, they are kind of out of "innovation ".
Prices just became ridiculous at this point for MTBs; road bikes are even worse. Sure, some of it is down to innovation (wireless shifting) and inflation, but it's becoming harder and harder to justify spending so much on bikes when you can buy motorcycles for the same price. At least the local shops are doing well. It seems E-bikes opened a whole new service field and revenue stream. Good on them. But manufacturers lost the plot. Also, bikes are so good nowadays that you can shred them for many years.
Wireless shifting is insane garbage. None of the really serious MTB'rs that I ride with have electronic shifting. Its all high end Shimano group sets.
You are comparing apples and bananas. Cheap motorcycles are cheap. People will see it as good value, when it's not. Kinda how I look at a Huffy. Not good value. But a Cervelo R3 is good value in my opinion. Or a Trek Emonda ALR disc. Both good value bikes. But those are 200,000 equivalence in motorcycle terms. Are you really gonna go there and say that 12k and 16k are the same, when one is for all out performance and the other is for Bob Jackson who is going to work? Nah. You are actually stupid comparing those.
@@diehardbikesbrand new kawasaki zx10r= 18k chf ... brand new canyon speedmax cfr track = 18k chf ...
@@diehardbikes Why are you starting with entry-level bikes and then switching to 12k vs 16k? You don't make much sense. What's your point exactly? You can also buy entry-level and high-end motorcycles? Let me guess: You are an American? Educate yourself, bro.
Here in Vancouver, they are still selling, but perhaps not as fast. The correction is needed however........prices of bikes and parts is ridiculous.
yea this is the trend very slowly, but I do not know what the correction looks like or how long wil take and what happens with all stores left with all over priced paid inventory that now can not make profits to stay inbusiness
@GCPerformance18 Many of them deserve to be out of business as the majority were busy gouging people during covid. I have a few bikes I've paid 5-6k for, but simply put the intense I paid 5k for in 2014 is every bit as good as the new junk for twice the price. Top end should be about 6-7k tops, bikes breaking 10-15k is a large joke on all bike enthusiasts.
I'm so glad. Best MTB in the world shouldn't be over 3K period... It's crazy that even an entry level mtb costs around $1000 now, I hope they loose as much as possible because of this extreme greed. Giving $3000-7000 for a bicycle is WILD!!
They just over saturated the market 2021-2023 and now we need a slow period to digest all the “used” but never really used) bikes out there.
Everyone saying “too expensive”, but there are tons of lower-cost options-people think they need the $10k pro-spec model, but really don’t.
I see Enduro MTB trending downwards while XC and short travel trail bikes trending upward. E-MTB as flat but slowing. I think it’s a combination of the economy as well as trends within the industry and riders (the consumers).
I think that the combination of e-bikes and gravel bikes have eaten into a huge chunk of the mountain bike sales.
Still rocking my 2 old hardtails from 1993 and 2011. They're good enough for what I ride. The 93 wasn't cheap for its time but it lasted. Now it's stripped down to the frame waiting for a rebuild.
Most anybody who wanted something during the pandemic has it. On top of that, every form of discretionary income is down. No stimulus checks, high inflation across the whole economy, all bad for throwing money at toys. There will still be the MD crowd whose idea of fiscal crunch is buying one new car a year instead of two, so I could see carbon road bikes keeping steady.
yea we are seeing this, everyone got what they wanted and needed during pandemic and now they are content with what they have because everything is too ridiculous to pay for
I work at a bike shop, but I work on the service side. However, I have noticed the entire shop, including sales being notably slower than even just last season. Service didn’t see the same rush in May through July this year as last, but still steady on the service side. Working in Canada, although not west coast, I think we see a relatively even split of road and mountain bikes going out the door, with a slight edge to road and gravel bikes, but still massively
favouring hybrids.
At least here in Chile, unknow brands or chinese ones are taking space. As a daily cyclist i see a lot of "cheap" brands because Trek, Specialized and Orbea prices for example (Giant could be there but they still offer cheaper bikes than the others) are still TOO high, like they stayed on the COVID-19 era.
All the industry needs to do is invent another new standard, maybe something like “boost 149” or something. Then all the trendies will think their bikes are obsolete when they crack a carbon rim dropping a curb on that 7k enduro rig…
Next up 13 cogs, no sprocket, taper the top of the steer tube and square wheels
Thank you for the video, very interesting insights! I live in the Tahoe area and at least here it seems MTB shops still get away with service not focused on customer needs. A lot of people around here live in the Bay Area and still seem to have disposable income which is also benefiting the local bike shops. My personal frustration is with service appointments which ALL four shops in town refusee to offer. Meaning you drop off your bike for a e.g. a lower fork service and it gets serviced at a first come first serve basis. Consequently you might have to wait for two weeks to get back on the bike. I made my long term bike shop aware of my needs and they would not change their "process". My money goes now some place else and I happily drive for 40 minutes one way to an out of town shop. Further my friends and I started servicing bikes ourselves, except for complicated repairs and maintenance. This means we shop for tools and parts online and visit the local shops far less - so the occasional spontaneous buy is gone for the shops. I hope the current time will be a blessing with only those shops surviving that are able to organize themselves focused on the customer needs, rather their own convenience. This might be a special situation were I live and not applicable to other parts of the country.
I live in a pretty hot MTB area. The other thing I have observed is that with MTB's is that people have realized having xx1 or x01 really doesnt do anything for them. That GX or XT is just fine for their needs. It seems like people in mass are transitioning away from enduro bikes and going for XC/Downcountry style bikes. I dont think there has been big enough innovation in the MTB world since covid to justify people really wanting a new bike aside from them wanting a different bike. For example I have a 2019 SB150, today, when you buy it new you get the same exact fork and drive train that I got back in 2019, at least for the build i had. They did update the bike last year, but its so marginally different there is no reason to spend another 7k. If suspension tech had improved or geo had improved i would consider it, but until then there really isnt a reason.
Combin this with the overstock of covid bikes and add on the covid riders who no longer ride, you get this hell storm of a market.
There is nothing to improve regarding geo… everything exists or existed already. It’s similar to the fashion industry: everything is coming back… we’re going to see steeper head angles in XC mtbing very soon .. as the industry „just“ discovered that these kind of frames are way more nimble and direct in handling.LOL
Yes- people bought the 7k “slacker “ bike only to find out they are the problem.
I live in a mtb town- these 7k bikers can’t clear a very small table top . Let alone a 3 foot gap jump.
I actually feel sorry for them.
My 2016 specialized enduro can handle anything that 90% of the riders can throw at it. And that’s after 7 years of riding.
I just got a bike with gx. As a road rider I am an unashamed weight weinie but when you are starting at 28 pounds gx really is all you need!
Hard to buy new when current years used everywhere for sale and upgrading your classic with some newer components seems to makes the most sense.
The average age of cyclists (road, mountain, gravel, everything but BMX) are aging out and into EMTBs. Make simple, durable off road cargo bikes for lower middle class prices, and there will be a market.
You nailed it sir 👌🏾
EXPENSIVE!!!!!!
For me those 80's/90's Mtb/Atb are the way to go!
I don't do extreme riding.
None of them are worth no more than $1500 They’re not worth 10 to 15,000 neither are worth $7000 a $300 Canadian tire to get back-and-forth to work and that last 5 to 7 years
As someone who used to renew each of my 3 bikes (MTB, e-MTB, road) each year to the top of the range, my 2 cents on why I didn’t in the last 3 years despite still being (luckily) able to:
- Road: as we now know weight doesn’t matter as much as aero, I’m not sold on a couple hundred grams anymore. Transmission updates are marginally better and insanely more expensive. Don’t want to renew the gearing of my home trainer at the same time. Integrated cable routing, aero frame/cockpit and electronic shifting seen no breakthrough. Bigger tires being normalized solves the « comfort » issue of 2021-2 harshness. My expectations for the next gen are being ignored by brands : dropper + 1x on an aero and reasonably light package with enough modularity on the cockpit for native nice prolongators.
- MTB: my stumpy evo is just too good vs the newer stuff and I already bought it at -35%. + seing MTB with the same equipment level of e-bikes sold for the same price as ebikes is just insulting for anyone’s intelligence. No notable innovations there and the geometry is getting on point. Suspensions are already excellent when maintained.
- E-MTB: newer generation of motors and overall package weight are exploding right now but as they are expensive it’s better to wait to see if the hardware is mechanically reliable. Geometry is also on point and the weight makes these bikes more planted is so that there’s no need for as high end as a suspension package to reach better performances on the trail as standard MTB. And then the only massive innovation we need : NOT having to bleed / clean / solve braking power issues for gravity crowd just isn’t happening. Brakes in the (e)-mtb industry has been a JOKE for the last 20 years and require a RIDICULOUS amount of attention vs your grandpa’s car or your brother’s motorbike.
And finally I used to be able to resell the fleet for a price that was correlated to the brand new ones I was looking for. It’s not happening anymore as new bike prices went crazy high and the resell value went crazy low. It’s a chain of value that’s being destroyed. Not just profits for these companies and they’re ignoring it.
i know what will cure it, a new 3000 dollar wireless groupset 🤓
@charlesmansplaining well the roady ones include brakes/shifters that are integrated unlike mtb hence the massive price difference to the equivalent mtb one
As a consumer, it's a pain to get a high end bike these days. I broke the frame of my mountain bike and needed a new XC race bike in January '23. The shop I race for couldn't get anything. Other shops in the area couldn't get anything. I ended up buying a used frame from Pro's Closet and having my local shop order all the parts for me. Then in September '23 I decided that my road bike needed to be replaced, so I had the shop order me a Scott Foil. Fast forward to July '24 and ETA was still 'maybe late fall'. My shop just started carrying Giant, and I was lucky to get a Propel last week. Back in the day, if you had the cash, you would have your new bike within the week. When I go to races, more people than ever have really nice mountain bikes-- way more than when I was a kid. I think this is all just fallout from politicians on both sides selling us out for their profit. If we would limit their interference, I"m sure the bike industry would get us amazing bikes without the crazy waits.
Mtbers are less elitist than roadies. Thats why. Roadies need a new thing every month. Mtbers just need a bike that goes down a hill and brakes half of the time
Lol man I wish! My area are just as bad as roadies or even worst. They got massive ego and bad attitude equal to all other cyclist here.
😂
No....
That depends though. In where i live, mtbers are very elitist that just by seeing a roadies like me cause them to act snobbish
We here some elitist eMTB haters, who believe eBikes have no right to go certain elite places. Also a kind of elitism
My reason is I have a hardtail that I have pretty much upgraded that suits all of my needs as a typical rider and I can't justify buying a new one that does exactly the same.
The bikes are so specialized that you can't ride them anywhere but big mountain and who has access to that daily? My 2000 mtb isn't overweight, oversized, and so slow geared that it's usable just about everywhere. Overpriced and overly specialized...
Great observation. The humble XC bike is what most people should get since most people don't live next to a mountain. Geometries are way too specialized (extreme?) towards all-mountain or DH which is useless for everyday pedaling.
I have an amazing, beautiful, vintage,,steel-frame, road bike and a pretty good, vintage mountain bike. As prices for everything go up, I keep repairing my car, my bikes, and everything else. I am also doing more and more of my maintenance and repairs. I am buying replacement parts and upgrading components.
When a mid grade carbon bike is 5k and the trails are crowded with jabronies my biking looses its appeal to sane people looking for fun
"Jabronies" 😂 I haven't heard that word in a LONG time! Thankx for the laugh!!
Love your content! Keep up the good work. And best of luck to you and your store.
Thank you so so much I appreciate that
Uk : Electricity 2020 used to be 6p/kwh it’s now (2024) 26p/kwh . I believe those prices are even worse for businesses as there’s no cap to the price.
Food is mega expensive still. E.g Milk went from £1.00 for 2l to £1.80.
Mortgage rates went from 0.5 to 8% or more….. and rents went from £1200 /month to £1800+
Uk: we blocked cheap Labour, so no drivers from Europe. There was a skills shortage of qualified drivers. So the day after euro drivers were blocked, uk drivers demand £30k pay rises, and got them. This largely kicked off the inflation death spiral because everything needs to be transported, so the cost of the pay rise needs adding to the item being delivered.
Tldr:
money is vanishing before you can spend it.
Other part is mountain bikes are expensive and most local shops doesn't offer a finance option and that is important
So local bike shops check your local banks to see if it is something ya'll can workout and offer that option to the customer amd everyone wins you go out with a new bike, the bike shop gets paid and the bank is the one dealing with payments and making money also with interest
Most people buy mountain bike as a second bike. With money being tight, the secondary bike gets less attention.
I also agree with the time thing. For me, I can leave my house and ride numerous roads. With a mountain bike I have to load it up and drive at least 30 minutes.
I will say in Kentucky MTB race participation hasn’t really dropped off. People may be saving their money, keep racing their older bike.
No, absolute BS...well maybe in Japan netherlands lol or so
6 years ago I bought my MTB with a mix of GX and NX group set, hydraulic brakes and fox 32 forks for 1500 AUD. It use to retail for 2200AUD. Nowadays, that same bike is 3000-3500 AUD.
These big bike brands should be consigning the bikes to the smaller dealers. The fact they can lower the price and make profit after they strong arm the shops into the spring orders cant continue.
Stores out here in Denver are FULL of bikes! I feel that, especially in MTB, the search for the right geometry, wheels sizes, and decent components has leveled off. Changes in bikes are so small year to year now there isn't a big reason to "upgrade". Now the prices need to come down. The Chinese brands are going to overtake the industry standard brands if they don't start selling to the average Joe.
This is going to sound crazy... I think bike companies should re-release popular bikes from the past like Cannondale Caad 10 or 90s Kona hardtail etc...
Not Crazy.. I still ride a 2013 Cannondale Jekyll 3
Nothing is going to change, they still going to price them at NASA space shuttle prices 🤷🏾♂️
Forsure money and time!! Not everyone lives right next to a trail, it’s a whole process to pack up the bike, drive to the trail, ride (hopefully it’s not busy), pack it up and head home. I think that’s a huge reason why gravel bikes are so popular, you can literally get home from work and just ride. And I think that’s what majority of people want is just to get on a bike and ride, most people don’t care about the specs or the technology of these news bikes.. Especially for what they’re asking for em
Even Dave Arthur reviewed a full suspension Giant MTB.
On the topic of new being sold through "used" outlets - this has been going on for a while.
I have a local outoor/bike used reseller store. He gets approached first to unload the reps sample. Then they open accounts - become dealers. E-bike companies approach him and they are direct-to-consumer brands. I laughed at him during covid saying your going to end up way more of a bikeshop than you intended.
My local bike shops have lots of inventory. I’m completely happy with my bikes a bought a couple of years ago. No new technologies are out good enough to drop serious coin for a new one.
I don’t know about mountain bikes dying. But I do have a few thoughts on what’s going on. Mountain bikes have gotten so good in the last few years there is really no reason to replace them so often. I got a Trek fuel ex 9.7 in 22 and it’s the best most capable bike I have ridden in the last 30 years. It ticks all the boxes for me I see no reason to replace it any time soon. I upgraded it to GX AXS the day I brought it home. So outside of tires there is nothing on it I want to replace or upgrade. I’m guessing I’m not the only one. Also have you seen the prices on new Fox stuff. New forks are around $1000. It’s no wonder there not flying off shelves. Every place I ride has full parking lots all the time I think plenty of people are riding.
No wonder. MTBs are niche bikes, dedicated to a narower user segment: youngsters willing to risk their necks & bones speeding on the rocky mountains. MTB manufacturers should change, producing full-suspension bikes like Riese-Muller, adapted both for city ride (w. fenders, dynamos, luggage racks etc) and for off-road w. full Fox suspensions, nubby tires etc.
Why should i pay double for an MTB and a separate gravel/city/road bike when i can have just one for all-around?
Gravel taking over, but it is also the matter of shelling out 4k+ a year for a bike. Some of us don't have fat wallets to dip into.
In Canada the showroom floors are full of $10k+ mountain bikes. The e-bikes go up from there. I’m priced out.
Who would have imagined, when Dentists and Doctors are the only ones able to afford the extravagant luxury bikes, no one else would buy any of it. Time to come back to reality, Bikes
Plenty of bikes available from 1.5-2k and up. Nobody’s buy my those either 🤷🏼♂️
I'm a dentist yet I still find them too expensive. 😂
@@Doc_Raphy 😂🤣😂🙏🙌🙌👍
@@EBikeBuilder_ in my country, flagship mountain bikes like the BMC Four Stroke, Specialized Epic Evo and Trek Supercaliber costs as much as a brand new economy car. Something's really wrong with the biking industry when bikes for the masses would cost more than an expressway-legal motorcycle and they tell you it's normal.
Mtb prices are stupid, costs the same/more than a new motorcycle. Mtb needs to get real, 1 to 2k mtbs is the max for most people