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This movie is actually a carefully crafted master piece, joker in the end dies, to show off the fact that the real clown all along was you, the viewer, because you went to watch this shit.
Isn't all songs imagined by Arthur? If so, then whole "He can't sing, that's why it sounds like that" doesn't work, because who would *imagine* himself as bad singer? Every time you sing some song in your head, it always sounds as it should, even you can't sing at all
At the very least, I would expect that Lee would have been a good singer, since he's in love with her and would most likely portray her in a positive light.
The worst part is that the film doesn’t look like the studio interfered a lot in it. Like it actually looks like the film Todd Philips wanted to make. It just sucks.
It's insane that these people can NEVER separate Reality with Fiction. So, they project onto the Audience. "These people like the Joker as a character, so that means they want to kill people! Hurr Durr!" It's like no, maybe we're tired of super powered villains and this Villains story resonates with people more than Thanos wanting to destroy half the universes population? Like I do not understand these types of people they really are just egotistic and self centered.
getting gang graped by Arkham guards, getting dumped by Lee because she wanted "real" Joker, and then get shived by some bro who 'took his mantle'?? genuinely, fuck this movie for the character assassination that was committed in this movie.
Exactly. Like the director had extreme personal hate against the character. All insults he could heap he did. Consequently he hated the fans who loved that first one. He hated fans and fans hated him back. 😂😂😂
Someone needs to take everyone from Hollywood and put them in a seminar that tells them: "subverting expectations is only good when what replaces those expectations is MORE INTERESTING. Otherwise, it's just bad."
Another thing to add - no more movie musicals.... EVER. This isn't Broadway, I'm not at a musical performance. Its a movie and everybody expects to see a movie. Maximum 1-2 songs for comedic reasons, or bolstering plot-points. Any more than 2 songs in a movie and they should get canned.
@@Ssonelol I mean, we can still have a musical movie; it just shouldn't be in a franchise that doesn't do musicals, and it should be straight up a good musical.But yeah, no joker musical that isn't trying to be unironic.
I was at a comedy show the other night, and the joke that got the biggest laughs was when the host said how happy he was that he had a bigger audience than any theater showing 'Joker Folie à Deux.'
nick cage is the second best joker candidate other than william dafoe, you can edit a white face on nick cage doing insane shit and he literally becomes joker, even more in the sawzall scene on mom and dad, and the slap of god, from the same movie
What I don’t get is if he didn’t want the audience to sympathize with the joker then why did they go so out of their way to make the audience sympathize with him? They told the whole story about his mom and his mental illness and his struggle to fit in and be accepted and whatever… if they wanted him to be taken as an irredeemable incel pos… then why didn’t they just write him that way? The whole point of “you shouldn’t have even liked the first movie!” Thing is so ridiculous 😭
Sympathy shouldn't turn into endorsement no matter how much you feel for despicable people. And since when did hating a character ever stop people from enjoying their movies and watching them? Ramsay Bolton, Joffery Baratheon, Theon Greyjoy, Darth Vader, Walter White, Scar, Thanos, etc. They've all done despicable things and even when we understand why they became what they became and feel for it, we still don't agree. They're characters we love to watch, that we love to hate, to pity, to lift our noses and snort in disbelieving disgust at. You do not have to like or agree with a character to like the character. You do not have to like or agree with a character to like the movie about them. That is the point of villainous characters. Then you tie in the faithful continuation of a mental health story- the director himself said that Joker was a mental health movie first and a DC movie second- and it makes more sense. Your mental health doesn't magically revise itself because you kill the man you're angry with as a result of your delusions and sad life. He goes to Arkham, and his life is still sad. His delusions aren't lifting. In all likelihood, the second movie, much like the first, is almost entirely in Arthur's head as well. He's an unwell man, and him catering to his own unwellness wasn't going to magically turn him into a competent and capable crime boss or societal figurehead. He's crazy. He's sick. It's sad, but what he's done is still evil and disgusting, and what he's done certainly isn't helping him to *not* be sick and crazy in the ways that have always handicapped his capabilities.
@@anathemat-002 nobody is endorsing or agreeing with anything. The point is the joker is a goofy villain in a comic book and he turned him into a real life guy with real life problems and real life illnesses. He made him someone to sympathize with then insulted the people who just listened to his story the way he told it and made it seem like the audience the meaning out of nowhere. He wrote the darn movie. He made it what it was interpreted as. So maybe he should call himself an incel.
@@AL-lh2ht That isn't the point of a tragedy. The point of a tragedy is that it doesn't have a happy ending. For example, a movie where a racist learns to be better and cleans up his act, only to get gunned down in the final minutes by one of his previous victims. He did change, but there's no happy ending.
Not really.. The rest of the movie is still dogshit. Nicholas Cage should only appear if they reboot the character again... Which they've done hundreds of times at this point
I would have preferred it if they had Cameron Monaghan from the Gotham series to cameo as the guy who kills Arther. Still would’ve been dumb, but at least it would have been a kind of funny little wink at the audience
When your lead gets an oscar for the first movie, why would you even think of making him a pathetic loser in the second part singing random songs and finally killing your character in the end?
@@Roo-Smithterrefier tells u what you would except, a gorry slasher with no real context. This films tries to brand itself as a joker origin storh whislt missing the whole mark. if in this film if arthur fleck became joker and some broken person was inspired by it but isnt really joker, it wouldve have been 10x better. like yeah it isnt what we wanted but it certinaly is what the director wants. i js hate this film because it wants to act like the first joker doesnt exist, like bfr, you want to ignore the first joker film, so stupid. i get what the director wanted to do but you can do this formula on 10000 another films but it shouldve have never been a joker film. ts just sad and it shows as the filmakers are making exchses for their stupid descisions on interviews.
@@pewialmostdie3631 Personal opinion: I think what they should've done with this movie is make the first movie a story that Joker was telling to Harleen in order to manipulate her. Philips could still be all "You're wrong to like the Joker" but have an actually good movie.
For years I’ve been asking studios NOT to meddle in a director’s vision because that has ruined so many movies, especially DC ones! And now I have egg on my face! The movie was so bad that now fans like me are like “Never mind. Next time meddle!”
@@thimbletoebut the movie wasn’t for the studio it was for the audience. In the process of saying eff you to the studio he said eff you to the audience.
LMAO 🤣 You don't have too much the at least. There is a long history of directors getting full control and making bombs. Steven Spielberg had made some bad movies, too.
@@thimbletoeI don't think it had to be sooo bad though lol. TP could have signed on as an executive producer only and let an ambitious writer and director give it a go. The guy still would have made bank and not destroyed the movie's potential... Like when James Cameron made Aliens because Ridley Scott was gone.
Buddy, there have been lots of cases where studios, or at least someone should've interfered Just look at Snyder's movies now that he has 100% control now
You could tell in the first movie that his killing of the guys on the train, even though it was horrible self defense, gave him a sense of safety through power. It was literally his first outlet that gave him a sense of control over his life. It was a great way to make a tragic villain, and they pissed it all away.
@@tombadil64the first movie was self indulgent and overhyped. It was mediocre at best. I knew that a second movie based on a mid movie wasn’t going to work
@@MrMaskedhater lol oh yes you’re one of the 90% of people that act like the movie is “sooo deep and meaningful” and that “you just have to be an intellectual to understand it” everyone understands the messages that are quite literally being hamfisted into both movies. They aren’t subtle, creative or clever. The fan base for this movie is on par with the Rick and Morty fan base in terms of “erm actually it’s great you just can’t comprehend 🤓” but please keep regurgitating the same npc Esq dialogue defending it
Joker could still be a pathetic incel and a criminal mastermind. the notion that you can't have both is like saying that actual criminals are chads and not socially inept, as the first movie showed
I refuse to watch this movie simply because I’m a big fan of the first movie and I don’t want it ruined! I’m in denial and just pretending this movie never happened!
Honestly, a terrible sequel doesn't ruin its previous film. Just like an amazing sequel doesn't fix the previous film. They're independent from each other. I just won't watch Joker 2 because it sounds really bad.
This is a great video! I think his accent in the courtroom is because Arthur isn’t a lawyer. He’s only watched what his mom showed him, so lawyers on TV were portrayed over the top as he did in the movie.
"Hey you liked that movie? Wow you're a real piece of shit huh. Just for that, here's the main character getting beaten, bullied, humiliated and then fucking raped into submission before dying all alone. Yknow, to teach the bad guy a lesson" Fuck you too, Todd.
I thought that too. If he was going to go back to being Arthur, at least have it be advantageous to him, but it was the exact opposite. He went from having a crowd of followers, Harleen, and gaining confidence and agency in his life to renouncing all of that and being r*ped by the guards, losing the court case, losing Harleen, and getting killed all before the credits rolled.
@larry4672 Yep, same here. I'm glad there's no Joker 2 either, dude. I'd hate to see them ruin the Joker from either the first movie or the animated series or the Arkham games. Geez, can you imagine what Joker 2 would look like? It could ruin The Joker, and it could also ruin Harley Quinn as well. But if there's a worthy Joker 2 out there, I STILL say it's: "Batman Beyond: Return of The Joker" even to this day.
Make-up,as most people know,is not against the law,you can cover your entire body in makeup if you wanted, you'll have a 99.99% chance of losing but you can
There was so much potential. Imagine if he managed to get everything he wanted, just to be stopped by something like a Batman at the end of the movie as a result of his brutal actions for example. Basically "kicking him down again" in his eyes while the audience sees how he reached his goals through murder and crime and why he needs to be stopped. Or showing him creating and leading anarchistic riots while in court and prison, becoming somewhat of a king of chaos. But no. It had to go down like this.
I was excited for this movie, but my friend saw it on opening weekend and told me our three word insta-kill movie review phrase: "Wicker Man Bad". I cancelled my ticket and I'll just keep enjoying the first one. I hate movies that are uneventful or regressive in their stories.
I'm actually so bummed out that Joker 2 was what it was. I'll never understand why directors get mad at us for not liking bad movies but punish us for liking good ones
Plus he was the joker just not the joker we all grew up with 😂 y’all stupid with you’re unrealistic expectations 😅 how about you throw some money together and make the movie you want 😢 good luck 🤡
Do you know what's the worst type of media? The one that's made out of spite. Of all the recent big-brain "subverting expectations" pieces of media, Joker 2 might be the worst of them. It's so filled with spite and disgust for people who loved the original because Todd is a whiny egomaniac who couldn't handle that people loved the first movie. As a result, no one wins: WB lost a ton of money and both fans and critics hate it. But Todd made his statement I guess: he is better that all of us because he made a bad movie on purpose There were protestors worldwide who protested their authoritarian governments dressed as the Joker, I guess those guys were incels too?
If people dressed up as Joker... they did not understand the point or the character. In the first Joker, he is 100% an incel loser. No one would ever want to be as pathetic as he is; he is the opposite of what someone would aspire to be. Did you literally not understand the first film?
@penguinreloaded7756 And I doubt V of V of Vendetta was that much of a stand-up guy (quite the fucked-up asshole if you read the comic) yet people used his mask for protests as a symbol. I think simply speaks more of the spite and hatred Todd had for people who simply created their own interpretations of the movie. And we are not talking about the "literally-me" incel losers, but people who tried to understand the character under mental health or social critique lenses, or even repurposed it for political activism. I genuinely think Todd despises those people for doing very basic media re-interpretation, which is my problem.
@@penguinreloaded7756 He definitely wasn't an "incel loser". That's shit people started saying only after he became popular with some cringe lords.. but every joker did. He was a mentally ill guy who got shit on by everything and everyone and later snapped. That's what the movie is about.
@@penguinreloaded7756 no, he was the exact definition of an "underdog" type character. Getting disrespected throughout the entire movie only to start "biting" back those who wronged him, resulting in him achieving what he always dreamed about, albeit by accident. THAT is why so many people resonated with him. So if anything, these people were the ones who actually understood the movie. And it's a shame people like you just aren't able to look past their ever present "fear of inn-cells" while trying to analyse a character.
@@HOVNA I like the first film! It genuinely broke my heart when he can't get his meds and the social worker can't see him any more. His character was dealt an awful hand.
Part 2 was not made for money, it was almost confirmed to have been made specifically to tell fans of the first one that they're trash and deserve to be put down.
@@AzureRoxesource: trust me bro, it's almost as if the first movie was one of the most lucrative movies of all time but nah money has nothing to do with then wanting to make a sequel
@@Elatenl Ah yes, he just made it a musical, refused Studio input, refused to test screen it for no reason. Totally didn't want this to flop at all guys. That's why he did everything he could to destroy this movie from the beginning. and said "I want nothing to do with DC" while creating a Movie about a DC Villian. Totally was just by accident guys.
@@Rahnonymous Studios who fund and greenlit movies aren't the same person as the director. This movie was 100% greenlit by the studio because the first movie did financially well. After it was greenlit the director decided to turn the movie into this direction but I don't think the studio who greenlit it had anything to do with the message of the film. The only goal of the studio is to make money, this movie is tanking because of its message. it doesn't benefit the studio at alll
15:31 "i was expecting there to be an uprising where he was in charge with all these followers" Ya i mean, its almost as if there was an entire first film that set this up
scam? messed up? really? i mean, they were open since day one that this wasn't at all like your usual joker, and only inspired or very, very losely related. And i don't know, if in this day and age you go into a movie fully blind, not even checking a trailer or an imdb score or some review, you are being an irresponsible customer, not someone getting "scammed" don't be dramatic.
@magical571 Then why not call it "Arthur"? He knew customers would be as you said "irresponsible" and buy tickets. I see what you're saying. But Todd knew exactly what he was doing. I personally don't care..but I know a hustle when I see one. And he succeeded..Scam the studio and the DC fans..as maybe he should have.
I'm so tired of "Creatives" Putting "Their Spin" on things or trying to use the movie to tell a "message". This entire movie was "The fans get what they deserve!", it shows the hatred Todd has for the fans of the IP he is puppeting.
My main issue with the first was that it didnt have a real message except eat the rich. But the second manages to say nothing and at the same time do it "mit dem holzhammer"
Todd was pissed off that people tried to find meaning on his movie or that they repurposed for other things, like political protests (yeah, it's not like pop-culture osmosis usually does that). He is a spiteful prick with luck.
@@RayCrowfield The message isn't in the movies Lore\scenes, the message is "Fans of the joker are POS" That's all. it was a direct insult to the fans themselves. It's like he thinks people who like the joker want to literally BE HIM. No, we don't, we just find his character interesting and compelling more so than the random powered up super villains with powers etc. Todd doesn't get that. I'm sure this is political somewhat for him. It seems that way to me anyways. Like "Oh I sure Owned those Incels!" type of thing.
Gotta say the shot of you with the green hand in the background, making it look like green hair, as well as the purple shirt looking like a purple suit. That is more faithful to the character than this whole movie.
I feel like if this movie would have been a deep dive into how Arthur absolutely needed the Joker persona to get out of the really bad situations he’s in but at the same time haunted by the Joker character and less on singing love songs and “Harley Quinn” it would be way more interesting and watchable
Nicholas Cage is just waiting for the right opportunity to save The Joker's reputation so he can reap in all of the rewards of swooping in and being the perfect movie messiah that he is.
I think what bothers me the most is like within this Incel culture analysis there was like a really cool opportunity to show the issues with idolizing and worshiping really odd people who probably shouldn’t be on a pedestal but no, let’s turn this movie inside out, and just waste $200 million like I don’t understand how this got cleared and will start to be a good idea… I’m like deeeply upset lmaooo
I thought the first movie did a good job at this, sans 'incel'. Arthur laughed when Murray mentioned two protestors on the train died (during his escape from the detectives). Arthur time and time again admitted he wasn't politically motivated, he didn't believe in anything. The audience was given a glimpse of what an Arthur Fleck Joker could provide the less Nihilistic and more activistic of the rioters. He'd take them down with him, in a blaze of death and chaos.
100% I think the first movie did a good job setting that up because at the end of the movie despite all that he’s created, a movement he started his legacy. I was hoping to see him actually struggle with the world changing around him. I was hoping to see him try to embrace being the joker and literally make the world his joke because nobody else gave a fuck in the first movie, like he should hate everybody.. I wanted to see everybody even the people that thought he was cool realize that dude is insane and they created a complex monster but instead we got like something very very different and I honestly don’t know what to think of right now
@RisingXAbove And instead, we get yet ANOTHER bad musical that's claims there's a Joker and Harley Quinn, but I don't see them anywhere...I just see Lady Gaga doing a HORRIBLY bad Harley Quinn impression, and Joaquin Phoenix in bad makeup, pretending to be The Joker; all while they both sing bad songs to each other? But also, just hates Batman and its fanbase, as well as The Joker and Harley Quinn?
I just really hate how polished and clean the new Joker film looks. It just doesn't have the sort of gritty feeling of the first one. That and the costumes. There has been a recent trending problem of the costumes looking like costumes. Nothing looks like it's worn by the character.
I believe he's imitating the stereotypical "southern gentleman lawyer" when he does that accent. Something you see in a lot of movies, from To Kill A Mockingbird, and Inherit The Wind to My Cousin Vinny. Along with any courtroom drama that takes place in the south. and a thousand sketch comedy shows.
It's actually mind boggling how little people I've seen seeing this movie. I work at a theater and every showing has had like 2 people MAX. Even random horror movies with bad promo get more people watching
@@noobmasterruben5167As if you couldn't already tell from the trailer that it'd be NOTHING but a waste of your time and money. And Joaquin Phoenix? I'd say he's now the WORST Joker ever, after this movie. He's at LEAST, 10x worse than Jared Leto's version from Suicide Squad (2016). And also, we got the worst versions of The Joker and Harley Quinn, ever witnessed by mankind, in the WORST musical ever made, and I also award you, Fake Joker(what's his name again? Arthur?) the award for: "The Worst Singing Joker Ever".
@shawnfields2369 well the thing is the teaser actually looked decent. It wasnt until the official trailers made it look worse and turned off the hype around it
Charachter development and expanding on the universe are the basis of a sequal. Todd Philips wanted to make something edgy and unexpected instead of giving his charachter a decent arch, no suprise people rejected it.
Me to Todd Philips as he looks at the box office for this film: “You get what you fucking deserve!” I also wanna mention that I loved the 2019 Joker. It’s one of my favorite movies oat and I rewatch it every so often. So when I saw this movie not only did I hate it but it ruined the first Joker movie for me. I will always hate Joker 2 for that.
apparently none of the fans are the right fans since it’s becoming one of the biggest box office flops of 2024. can’t blame the fans when the first movie was the one they fell in love with and the second trashed all over it.
@anastasiazhdanova1578 Wait, there was ALREADY a Batman cartoon musical number with The Joker?!? And it was GOOD!?! And it was Batman: The Brave and the Bold? Not Batman the Animated Series or even Batman Beyond? Huh...didn't know that...
They should have ripped off ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO'S NEST and had Arthur form relationships with Edward Nygma, and Victor Fries, and Oswald Cobblepot, and others in Arkham Asylum. The third movie could have been about him escaping from there and hooking up with his number one fan, Harley Quinnzel. But her roomate Selena Kyle is crazy and loves cats. I like the idea that in a world with no Batman, these people would still bump into each other. And we the audience would get to explore other Batman villains through the more serious lens established in the first JOKER, putting their illnesses and them as victims center stage. Instead we got this.
That's one way to go. Personally, I think that if they were gonna do a story heavily featuring Harleen Quinnzel, it should've been that the first movie was just a story that Joker was telling her in order to manipulate her. Like how in DCAU, he pretended to have an abusive father who was only happy once ever, when they went to the circus and saw the clowns perform.
"I like the idea that in a world with no Batman, these people would still bump into each other." Same, but my idea is that Batman wouldn't exist bc Bruce's parents never died. He just grew up with them normally. I mean, he'd still be the infamously reclusive son of the Waynes, and he'd have that same itching hate against society's wrongs that only Arthur can recognize, despite trying his best to seem stable. So they'd still grow to have that dynamic where Arthur's impressed by his restraint yet taunts him for it, while Bruce fears seeing himself in a homicidal maniac. Maybe near the end, he could be driven to beat the lights out of somebody who committed a crime, soaking his expensive suit, watch & cufflinks in blood... and he realizes he enjoys it. You'd wonder whether his parents' death caused him to be prone to violence, or he was always meant to be like this. So the idea wouldn't be that the Joker is a mask anyone can wear, but that there's a "Joker" in everyone: a primal side of you that wants to harm all those who cause harm, partly for your enjoyment. And you have to fight it daily by believing in people. Y'know... the original point of the Joker. As you said at the end, all the villains would be grounded, so there's no superpowers or vigilante-isms, just politics & violence (I was thinking that since the first movie focused on interpersonal injustices, the sequel could delve into systemic injustice, with the Asylum being the setting and all).
A much simpler and much better idea. Speaking of which, the fact Jack Nicholson is Murphy in the film adaptation of One Flew is just amusing, he essentially is just Joker (then again, Nicholson basically plays the same character in every movie.. himself) so it really does feel somehow connected to the Burton movie, despite Muprhy's fate
The Joker was so good I refuse to watch this. I also haven’t watched the first one since the theaters. Long story, but I had to have surgery in Morocco when the 1st one came out. An American movie in a French-Arabic-Spanish country had a standing applause at the end of the film. I prefer to keep that as my only memory of this franchise.
I think this movie happened because of the audience they saw connecting with the original, and much like the star wars sequels, halloween sequels, the killing off of the Punisher in marvel comics, they don't like that audience.
"killing off of the Punisher in marvel comics" That never actually happened. He was part of the "War of the Realms" event in 2019 and joined the "Heroes Reborn" run in 2021. In the 2022 - 2023 comic run, he got kidnapped by magic ninjas, had an entire story involving his wife's resurrection and then the god of war selected him as a possible champion. At the same time, a SHIELD agent temporarily took over his war on crime. Why lie on the internet?
@@kriysixvector4552 I don't keep up with comics like I used to, basically 15 years ago, but I knew about this, found out from Razorfist. If they bring him back, its not because they like the fans of the Punisher, they like money.
honestly, the moment where someone asked the producers and director who the movie was for and they just said "Joaquin", was kinda the moment where everything went to hell, because if it wasn't for Joaquin's weird dream where he said he saw the next Joker being a musical; none of this would have happened
Not that I know of anyone who actually likes musicals, but I know even fewer people who wanted a sequel to a psychological crime thriller to be a fucking musical.
I think going to his roots where he went fully overboard as the joker showed abusive traits to harley like his comic book counterpart and then having it end with him lonely surrounded by the destruction he caused when she leaves or maybe gets incarcerated or killed, anything is better than this
“You just wanted to see Freddy Kruger kill teenagers, to fulfill your own sick fantasies. Our society is so twisted. Here: here’s a Nightmare on Elm Street sequel where it’s a courtroom drama musical where Freddy Kruger denounces invading people in their nightmares and regrets his decisions”
For those who criticize the film, you’re dumb. The director was a visionary-he made the Joker burn $200 million in real life, just like in the movies. That’s true immersion in the story
The sad part is that I think this concept about Arthur Fleck wrestling with this Joker legacy he created that tragically kills him in the end COULD have worked if they made that the main focus of the story instead of muddying up this narrative with the inclusion of Harley and making it a musical. Even a bad concept could be pulled off with strong and satisfying writing, something that Todd Philips unfortunately fell short on in this film.
6:13 best description of this movie; a dead fish in a flushing toilet. Watching him swirl around in a world pool as the world changes and does things around him, yet he does nothing, as the titular dead fish in said swirling toilet.
The second I heard it was to be a musical with Lady Gaga I knew the movie that didn't need a sequel was gonna have one witu a lot of baggage. And here we are.
I think it didn’t need a sequel but if done right it would have potentially saved the dceu even if joker was kept as its own entity. Writers need to draw from themselves but also what works; if joker 1 and 2 were both spectacular successes then they could formulate and structure more hero/ villain movies around the ideas present in the first film
I'm so upset about what they did with this movie. The first movie is great, and this one just ruins his character. I refuse to accept this movie as canon, it completely retcons the ending of the first one.
one piece of media can't ruin another. Joker 1 exists on it's own. it's hilarious to me to see people act as if a movie and their sequels are some sort of conjoint twin. you can and should appreciate them on their own merits
Like the newer Star Wars movies, but a large part of that was that they were changing directors who kept retconning the last director’s story. Like the first movie played up Rey’s parents being important -> nope they were worthless farmers -> she’s a clone of Palpatine. Is that what happened here? Was there a new director who hated the first movie?
@@magical571It absolutely can, by association. If someone really liked the first movie, but hated the second, then watching the former will likely remind them of the latter, and impact how they view it. It's the same as, say, watching a movie that has a twist villain who betrays the protagonists. Once you've seen the movie once, everything you see that character do on a rewatch is recontextualized by your knowledge of them being a traitor. You view their actions and words differently. You'd have to completely block out the second movie for it to not affect your enjoyment of the first. Is this possible? Yes, for certain movies. Pacific Rim comes to mind as a film that can stand alone with you forgetting about the sequel. It wraps up clearly. But Joker, to some extent, is a setup. It teases that there's more to come, it builds towards a conclusion. And blocking out said conclusion is way harder than blocking out a mostly standalone story in the same setting.
I still find it crazy how the joker movie is absolutely awful despite trying to be dark and gritty and stuff, while the Penguin mini series has a similar tone but is just better, like way way better, particularly in terms of writing. What is DC doing?
@@housewilma4904 I watch dead topics that suffers by watching it. Dont worry - it got worse. Starfire got amnesia, just for reveal that random transport guy from her race was her lover, lover got killed by her sister and producers are now trying to make blackfire not so bad by giving her sad backstory also she with other titans bullied robin into commiting self jump kill - I am not even joking
@@AL-lh2ht literally every other character is recognizable as a titan at first glance but starfire. heck they even gave raven comically accurate hair even tho it looks dumb IRL.
I don’t get why the first movie was such a big deal, since it was just a soft reboot to Martin Scorsese’s “The King of Comedy.” But I guess that enough modern movie fans haven’t seen that source material, and it wasn’t connected to a “DC Universe” IP, so…
@daizee106 From what I remember about Harley Quinn; uh yes, she IS supposed to be hot, NOT: A. looking like they put a corpse in bad makeup. B. Put that corpse in a bad wig. C. Made her look like she's in her mid 50s-early 60s.
I never really saw Joaquin as "the real Joker " because this movie always felt like some random thing that existed in isolation they weren't supposed to continue his story since Batman was never going to show up and Joaquim wasn't going to be part of any franchise
![ILLSLICK - KILLSHOT REMIX [FULL VERSION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RIK8RrqIAzE/mqdefault.jpg)
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DC loves to shoot itself in the foot
Will do 🎉
Using perfect dark soundtrack music is based. 🎉🎉🎉
if the dude hates his job that much then he shouldn't hav become a director
3 spoopy 5 me
This movie is actually a carefully crafted master piece, joker in the end dies, to show off the fact that the real clown all along was you, the viewer, because you went to watch this shit.
Nearly pissed myself laughing at your comment 😮😊
Well the joke's still on them, because I've watched it illegally at home and didn't pay those effers a dime
@@selamandreykum5844you still wasted 2 hours of your time.
@@selamandreykum5844 same dude
@@selamandreykum5844 which is funny cuz I went to see Joker 1 on premiere in the cinema
First movie: The Joker
Second movie: The Joke
Third movie: Jojo’s Bizzare Adventure
@@romanocheez7725 Both movies suck.
@@ericb9252 oh shut up
Not a Batman movie. Not set in the DC universe
The jonkler
This movie doesn't exist. I refuse to acknowledge it
It got the Pacific Rim II treatmenr.
True! This and Modern Disney Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and Mulan!
Agreed, there never was a Joker 2 that ruined the first movie
You know what? I shouldn't have called it 2, I should've called it Foliè Doo Doo
I'm not even gonna watch it
The first movie explored mental illness..
And the sequel gave you one..
Truly world class.
😂😂😂
Explored? You know that Todd has admitted to not researching any mental illness right?
@nathanwatkins1005 you know a joke when you see one right?
Somewhere, Jared Leto's laughing while surrounded by a collection of knives, knowing full well he is no longer the "Worst Jonkler"
Don’t play Joaquin Phoenix like that ❤ man is still a great actor.
@@OpalLeigh-il8yj I'm not dissing his acting, just the character he played
@@bottomlefto despite the shit writing, Joaquin still gave a great performance, one a thousand times better than Leto’s!
Pheonix could record himself feeding his dog and it would be a morbillion times better than anything Leto has or ever will do.
Jared Letos Joker atleast won´t be remembered as "The one that got ganked by the guards."
Isn't all songs imagined by Arthur? If so, then whole "He can't sing, that's why it sounds like that" doesn't work, because who would *imagine* himself as bad singer? Every time you sing some song in your head, it always sounds as it should, even you can't sing at all
At the very least, I would expect that Lee would have been a good singer, since he's in love with her and would most likely portray her in a positive light.
well yeah he sounds great in his imagination, not to someone listening tho.
But we seeing his imagination, that's the whole point of the movie
@@MrDarkSidius seeing is not hearing.
@@StarRain6 Do you not know how imagination works?
The worst part is that the film doesn’t look like the studio interfered a lot in it. Like it actually looks like the film Todd Philips wanted to make. It just sucks.
Todd refused to have any Studio input.
I've heard Todd got full control for this one
ironic since most of the time when a movie sucks it at least feels like the fault of the studio getting too involved
@@blueshit199That's because most of the time, the directors are good.
now his name is forever tarnished
It is because it “ catered to the wrong people“ do they realize that the audience chooses the movie not the movie chooses the audience
Get woke, go broke
No....... I think cuz it's just actually dogshit.
Still stupid.
It's insane that these people can NEVER separate Reality with Fiction. So, they project onto the Audience. "These people like the Joker as a character, so that means they want to kill people! Hurr Durr!"
It's like no, maybe we're tired of super powered villains and this Villains story resonates with people more than Thanos wanting to destroy half the universes population?
Like I do not understand these types of people they really are just egotistic and self centered.
@@jaredjoe133 Who are the "wrong people"?
getting gang graped by Arkham guards, getting dumped by Lee because she wanted "real" Joker, and then get shived by some bro who 'took his mantle'??
genuinely, fuck this movie for the character assassination that was committed in this movie.
Makes you appreciate Rorschach more huh?
this can join Pacific Rim 2 and Megamind 2 as 'shit that should never exist and we'll forget none of this happened'
@@Jm-ki4su you got that right. a huge part of me refuses to believe this movie even exists.
"Character assassination"
😅
Exactly. Like the director had extreme personal hate against the character. All insults he could heap he did. Consequently he hated the fans who loved that first one.
He hated fans and fans hated him back. 😂😂😂
Someone needs to take everyone from Hollywood and put them in a seminar that tells them: "subverting expectations is only good when what replaces those expectations is MORE INTERESTING. Otherwise, it's just bad."
Amen
I would settle for just interesting
Another thing to add - no more movie musicals.... EVER. This isn't Broadway, I'm not at a musical performance. Its a movie and everybody expects to see a movie. Maximum 1-2 songs for comedic reasons, or bolstering plot-points. Any more than 2 songs in a movie and they should get canned.
@@Ssonelol I mean, we can still have a musical movie; it just shouldn't be in a franchise that doesn't do musicals, and it should be straight up a good musical.But yeah, no joker musical that isn't trying to be unironic.
💯
I was at a comedy show the other night, and the joke that got the biggest laughs was when the host said how happy he was that he had a bigger audience than any theater showing 'Joker Folie à Deux.'
DAMNNNNN
That's an incredibly low bar for a show.
Terrible show wow
You don't go outside.
😮😮😮🤣🤣🤣...bruh....
I'm just going to watch this instead of watching the actual movie
Saaame, I don't even care that there are spoilers cause I've accepted that I won't be watching the film ever
I watched the Joker and the reviews have made it easy to decide not to watch this movie. I refuse to acknowledge that Arthur is not The Joker.
Lol when I saw this video pop up I thought, oh good, Todd shows clips so I'll see it outside of the trailer.
That's what I always do lol.
exactly what i said lol
That video made me realise that Nicolas Cage would be a really good Joker IMO
nick cage is the second best joker candidate other than william dafoe, you can edit a white face on nick cage doing insane shit and he literally becomes joker, even more in the sawzall scene on mom and dad, and the slap of god, from the same movie
Honestly he has the right energy for the character I think yeah
He's already an irl joker
Nicolas Cage is already the Joker in like half his movies. Dude's at his best when he's allowed to be completely batshit
I'm excited to see Nicolas Cage as Spider-Man noir again
What I don’t get is if he didn’t want the audience to sympathize with the joker then why did they go so out of their way to make the audience sympathize with him? They told the whole story about his mom and his mental illness and his struggle to fit in and be accepted and whatever… if they wanted him to be taken as an irredeemable incel pos… then why didn’t they just write him that way? The whole point of “you shouldn’t have even liked the first movie!” Thing is so ridiculous 😭
Sympathy shouldn't turn into endorsement no matter how much you feel for despicable people.
And since when did hating a character ever stop people from enjoying their movies and watching them? Ramsay Bolton, Joffery Baratheon, Theon Greyjoy, Darth Vader, Walter White, Scar, Thanos, etc. They've all done despicable things and even when we understand why they became what they became and feel for it, we still don't agree. They're characters we love to watch, that we love to hate, to pity, to lift our noses and snort in disbelieving disgust at.
You do not have to like or agree with a character to like the character. You do not have to like or agree with a character to like the movie about them.
That is the point of villainous characters.
Then you tie in the faithful continuation of a mental health story- the director himself said that Joker was a mental health movie first and a DC movie second- and it makes more sense.
Your mental health doesn't magically revise itself because you kill the man you're angry with as a result of your delusions and sad life. He goes to Arkham, and his life is still sad. His delusions aren't lifting. In all likelihood, the second movie, much like the first, is almost entirely in Arthur's head as well.
He's an unwell man, and him catering to his own unwellness wasn't going to magically turn him into a competent and capable crime boss or societal figurehead. He's crazy. He's sick. It's sad, but what he's done is still evil and disgusting, and what he's done certainly isn't helping him to *not* be sick and crazy in the ways that have always handicapped his capabilities.
Because the director flew too close too the sun and had an audience. He didn't like the audience so he wrecked the whole franchise.
Unless those are genuinely the things that make them hate people.
@@anathemat-002 nobody is endorsing or agreeing with anything. The point is the joker is a goofy villain in a comic book and he turned him into a real life guy with real life problems and real life illnesses. He made him someone to sympathize with then insulted the people who just listened to his story the way he told it and made it seem like the audience the meaning out of nowhere. He wrote the darn movie. He made it what it was interpreted as. So maybe he should call himself an incel.
@@hurricanefury439 he can blame himself for how he wrote the character. He is the incel.
Arthur: loses millions by singing ❌
Art: gains millions by being silent ✅
Lmao
What
@@GojoGunning art the clown our goat
This is the first actual "anti-movie" i've seen. Even morbius and madame webb gained superpower, changed, and got new goals at the end of their movie
your movie doesn't follow the heroe's journey, boo hoo, what a tragedy
@@magical571Doo doo movie
You guys have no idea that in a tragedy the protagonist is not suppose to change. Thats the entire point.
@@AL-lh2ht That isn't the point of a tragedy. The point of a tragedy is that it doesn't have a happy ending. For example, a movie where a racist learns to be better and cleans up his act, only to get gunned down in the final minutes by one of his previous victims. He did change, but there's no happy ending.
GAGA IS IN IT. SHE DESERVES AN OSCAR.
If the real Joker reveal had been Nicholas Cage, that would have been absolutely epic
Yea, but how would you explain the joker making the joker goons in the first movie
Not really.. The rest of the movie is still dogshit. Nicholas Cage should only appear if they reboot the character again... Which they've done hundreds of times at this point
It would leave the audience *SCRAPING AT THE DOOR!*
I would have preferred it if they had Cameron Monaghan from the Gotham series to cameo as the guy who kills Arther. Still would’ve been dumb, but at least it would have been a kind of funny little wink at the audience
I can’t believe they made the movie a musical and did not have joker beat box ONCE!
They missed out on the Harley rap 😔
Why so serious 🗣🔥🔥
JoyandAnsiexty in a Rap Battle
@@NeilDegrasseTysonWithAKatanamahahahahaehehehehehe
Joker becomes beatboxing puppy
When your lead gets an oscar for the first movie, why would you even think of making him a pathetic loser in the second part singing random songs and finally killing your character in the end?
To get out of a contract?
2:38 he looks like somebody that i used to know...hmm
I see what you did there 😆
Yeah, but he didn't have to cut me off...
But why did he make out like it never happened and that we were nothing
We didn't even need his love but he treats us like we're strangers and it feels so rough
“I’m not like OTHER Jokers.”
No kidding. Shit... 😂
GAGA IS IN IT. SHE DESERVES AN OSCAR.
Jared finally being surpassed as "the shittiest joker to ever exist"
@@jeromepickles2498 that’s a damn lie. That was a terrible performance. At least Joaquin and Gaga are great actors in this
This Joker's different, this Joker sucks
You know it’s bad when an Indie Clown movie was more profitable than a 200 million dollar clown movie
Terrifier has heart a dirty violent heart with a trashbag of murder tools
An Indie Clown movie that was already part of a franchise with 2 good movies, either way I'm looking forward to Elvis covering that
I love Terrifier
@@Roo-Smithterrefier tells u what you would except, a gorry slasher with no real context. This films tries to brand itself as a joker origin storh whislt missing the whole mark. if in this film if arthur fleck became joker and some broken person was inspired by it but isnt really joker, it wouldve have been 10x better. like yeah it isnt what we wanted but it certinaly is what the director wants. i js hate this film because it wants to act like the first joker doesnt exist, like bfr, you want to ignore the first joker film, so stupid. i get what the director wanted to do but you can do this formula on 10000 another films but it shouldve have never been a joker film. ts just sad and it shows as the filmakers are making exchses for their stupid descisions on interviews.
@@pewialmostdie3631 Personal opinion: I think what they should've done with this movie is make the first movie a story that Joker was telling to Harleen in order to manipulate her. Philips could still be all "You're wrong to like the Joker" but have an actually good movie.
For years I’ve been asking studios NOT to meddle in a director’s vision because that has ruined so many movies, especially DC ones! And now I have egg on my face! The movie was so bad that now fans like me are like “Never mind. Next time meddle!”
The real meddling was demanding he make a sequel at all so i guess this is his "lol get rekt" to the studio so gotta give credit for that
@@thimbletoebut the movie wasn’t for the studio it was for the audience. In the process of saying eff you to the studio he said eff you to the audience.
LMAO 🤣 You don't have too much the at least. There is a long history of directors getting full control and making bombs. Steven Spielberg had made some bad movies, too.
@@thimbletoeI don't think it had to be sooo bad though lol. TP could have signed on as an executive producer only and let an ambitious writer and director give it a go. The guy still would have made bank and not destroyed the movie's potential... Like when James Cameron made Aliens because Ridley Scott was gone.
Buddy, there have been lots of cases where studios, or at least someone should've interfered
Just look at Snyder's movies now that he has 100% control now
You could tell in the first movie that his killing of the guys on the train, even though it was horrible self defense, gave him a sense of safety through power.
It was literally his first outlet that gave him a sense of control over his life.
It was a great way to make a tragic villain, and they pissed it all away.
This Dark Knight Joker quote kinda sums up this travesty: "It's not about the money, it's about sending a message." Could be wrong but just a thought.
Oh for sure. It was worth it to attempt to undo everything the first movie represented.
@@tombadil64the first movie was self indulgent and overhyped. It was mediocre at best. I knew that a second movie based on a mid movie wasn’t going to work
@@deang.5636You wouldn't get it
@@MrMaskedhater lol oh yes you’re one of the 90% of people that act like the movie is “sooo deep and meaningful” and that “you just have to be an intellectual to understand it” everyone understands the messages that are quite literally being hamfisted into both movies. They aren’t subtle, creative or clever. The fan base for this movie is on par with the Rick and Morty fan base in terms of “erm actually it’s great you just can’t comprehend 🤓” but please keep regurgitating the same npc Esq dialogue defending it
@@deang.5636He's just quoting a line from the first movie for fun, don't worry about it
A great example of “not everything needs a sequel”
And here I am patiently waiting for district 12
It needed a sequel just not this one
Joker could still be a pathetic incel and a criminal mastermind. the notion that you can't have both is like saying that actual criminals are chads and not socially inept, as the first movie showed
At what point in jokers long history has he been portrayed as an "incel" lol
@@rogerskitt1542 When people that someone in power disapproved of made memes about him. Then they decided "Ah, he's an incel".
@@rogerskitt1542 Exactly, he's a psychotic murderer and total PoS, but he's not an incel. It's like people have forgotten Harley's origins...
@@rogerskitt1542 did you....not watch the first movie?
@@AL-lh2ht You mean when he fantasized about having a girlfriend? That's not incel behavior.
I refuse to watch this movie simply because I’m a big fan of the first movie and I don’t want it ruined! I’m in denial and just pretending this movie never happened!
Same 🤝
Honestly, a terrible sequel doesn't ruin its previous film. Just like an amazing sequel doesn't fix the previous film. They're independent from each other. I just won't watch Joker 2 because it sounds really bad.
First movie was also complete garbage. Felt like the script was written by a edgy 16 yr old
@@0_Katt_0ur entitled to ur opinion. Even if its wrong 😊
@@kanye7017Man, I liked Joker 1 too at one point. Then the hype clears off and I remembered I was a writer.
Can you imagine Todd making a Batman movie? 2 hours of Bruce Wayne receiving psychological treatment and therapy. Then he learns to move on.
Then we would discover at the end he wasn't even Bruce Wayne/Batman to begin with, just some deluded nobody.
This is a great video! I think his accent in the courtroom is because Arthur isn’t a lawyer. He’s only watched what his mom showed him, so lawyers on TV were portrayed over the top as he did in the movie.
I’m so happy that terrifier 3 destroyed this movie in box office. Only one clown is running 2024 😂
Art really did have the last laugh at the end of the day.
Talk about another 💩 movie 😂
Soo what's the story?
Hell, even The Wild Robot is doing better
@@giovannyc3886 go watch it and then you'll know
The crow reboot. Another pathetic incel. Doubt himself until the end puts clown makeup kills people.
The fact Todd was hiding at a ranch during the opening weekend 😭🙏
"hiding" by being at his house?
I hate you Heisenberg. I want you to cry in your closet.
@@AL-lh2ht It is not common for directors not being in the public light during the release weeks of their movies
@@AL-lh2ht Bro, you don't even know if that's his actual house. Could be his 20th property.
He went back to his lonely self and he literally gets gang graped doesnt get revenge and killed like wtf
GAGA IS IN IT. SHE DESERVES AN OSCAR.
"Hey you liked that movie? Wow you're a real piece of shit huh. Just for that, here's the main character getting beaten, bullied, humiliated and then fucking raped into submission before dying all alone. Yknow, to teach the bad guy a lesson"
Fuck you too, Todd.
@@againstthepods4316 She was good but the movie was still large doodoo
I thought that too. If he was going to go back to being Arthur, at least have it be advantageous to him, but it was the exact opposite.
He went from having a crowd of followers, Harleen, and gaining confidence and agency in his life to renouncing all of that and being r*ped by the guards, losing the court case, losing Harleen, and getting killed all before the credits rolled.
@@againstthepods4316 Razzie.
Nice video on the hypothetical Joker 2. I'm glad this never happened.
@larry4672 Yep, same here. I'm glad there's no Joker 2 either, dude. I'd hate to see them ruin the Joker from either the first movie or the animated series or the Arkham games. Geez, can you imagine what Joker 2 would look like? It could ruin The Joker, and it could also ruin Harley Quinn as well. But if there's a worthy Joker 2 out there, I STILL say it's:
"Batman Beyond: Return of The Joker" even to this day.
Why did the judge allow him to come to court wearing that makeup?
Make-up,as most people know,is not against the law,you can cover your entire body in makeup if you wanted, you'll have a 99.99% chance of losing but you can
They actually bring up in the movie he shouldn't go like that but don't feel like throwing him out
Joker: Stinky ah poo poo
real
GAGA IS IN IT. SHE DESERVES AN OSCAR.
I can tell you didn't watch the movie
@@tvirus9369 that’s so folie a deux of you 🎩
@@justjack5833 thanks
"It came to me in a dream"
You should've forgotten it like you do with most dreams.
This movie doesn't even have an inciting incident. It's like that vine of the skateboard guy that runs but never gets on the skateboard
😂 It was a horrible movie.
There was so much potential. Imagine if he managed to get everything he wanted, just to be stopped by something like a Batman at the end of the movie as a result of his brutal actions for example. Basically "kicking him down again" in his eyes while the audience sees how he reached his goals through murder and crime and why he needs to be stopped. Or showing him creating and leading anarchistic riots while in court and prison, becoming somewhat of a king of chaos. But no. It had to go down like this.
I was excited for this movie, but my friend saw it on opening weekend and told me our three word insta-kill movie review phrase: "Wicker Man Bad". I cancelled my ticket and I'll just keep enjoying the first one. I hate movies that are uneventful or regressive in their stories.
The one my friends and I have is "Van Helsing bad" so I can dig it 👍
I'm actually so bummed out that Joker 2 was what it was. I'll never understand why directors get mad at us for not liking bad movies but punish us for liking good ones
Plus trying to say Arthur isn't "joker" the whole time makes no sense for the first movie plus you ruin what the first movie had going.
@@peacocktheradiodemondidn’t ruin it for me…. Cause I have a brain and common sense 😂
Plus he was the joker just not the joker we all grew up with 😂 y’all stupid with you’re unrealistic expectations 😅 how about you throw some money together and make the movie you want 😢 good luck 🤡
@@lockesalive youre fun at parties xd
@@lockesalivethen both movies are pointless
Do you know what's the worst type of media? The one that's made out of spite. Of all the recent big-brain "subverting expectations" pieces of media, Joker 2 might be the worst of them. It's so filled with spite and disgust for people who loved the original because Todd is a whiny egomaniac who couldn't handle that people loved the first movie. As a result, no one wins: WB lost a ton of money and both fans and critics hate it. But Todd made his statement I guess: he is better that all of us because he made a bad movie on purpose
There were protestors worldwide who protested their authoritarian governments dressed as the Joker, I guess those guys were incels too?
If people dressed up as Joker... they did not understand the point or the character. In the first Joker, he is 100% an incel loser. No one would ever want to be as pathetic as he is; he is the opposite of what someone would aspire to be. Did you literally not understand the first film?
@penguinreloaded7756 And I doubt V of V of Vendetta was that much of a stand-up guy (quite the fucked-up asshole if you read the comic) yet people used his mask for protests as a symbol. I think simply speaks more of the spite and hatred Todd had for people who simply created their own interpretations of the movie.
And we are not talking about the "literally-me" incel losers, but people who tried to understand the character under mental health or social critique lenses, or even repurposed it for political activism. I genuinely think Todd despises those people for doing very basic media re-interpretation, which is my problem.
@@penguinreloaded7756 He definitely wasn't an "incel loser". That's shit people started saying only after he became popular with some cringe lords.. but every joker did. He was a mentally ill guy who got shit on by everything and everyone and later snapped. That's what the movie is about.
@@penguinreloaded7756 no, he was the exact definition of an "underdog" type character. Getting disrespected throughout the entire movie only to start "biting" back those who wronged him, resulting in him achieving what he always dreamed about, albeit by accident. THAT is why so many people resonated with him. So if anything, these people were the ones who actually understood the movie.
And it's a shame people like you just aren't able to look past their ever present "fear of inn-cells" while trying to analyse a character.
@@HOVNA I like the first film! It genuinely broke my heart when he can't get his meds and the social worker can't see him any more. His character was dealt an awful hand.
Never should’ve made a part 2. I’ll die on that hill.
Part 2 was not made for money, it was almost confirmed to have been made specifically to tell fans of the first one that they're trash and deserve to be put down.
@@AzureRoxesource: trust me bro, it's almost as if the first movie was one of the most lucrative movies of all time but nah money has nothing to do with then wanting to make a sequel
@@Elatenl it's not mutually exclusive. it was a bit of both
@@Elatenl Ah yes, he just made it a musical, refused Studio input, refused to test screen it for no reason.
Totally didn't want this to flop at all guys.
That's why he did everything he could to destroy this movie from the beginning. and said "I want nothing to do with DC" while creating a Movie about a DC Villian.
Totally was just by accident guys.
@@Rahnonymous Studios who fund and greenlit movies aren't the same person as the director. This movie was 100% greenlit by the studio because the first movie did financially well. After it was greenlit the director decided to turn the movie into this direction but I don't think the studio who greenlit it had anything to do with the message of the film. The only goal of the studio is to make money, this movie is tanking because of its message. it doesn't benefit the studio at alll
Well, some people seemingly like destroying their own careers
Some movies really don't need a sequel. I wish that lesson would be learned.
The always sunny edit was on point lmao
15:31 "i was expecting there to be an uprising where he was in charge with all these followers"
Ya i mean, its almost as if there was an entire first film that set this up
Todd used DC names to scam the fans lol
That's pretty messed up.
There's no money in a movie called "Arthur the Clown"
Tell that to Dudley Moore....😂
scam? messed up? really? i mean, they were open since day one that this wasn't at all like your usual joker, and only inspired or very, very losely related.
And i don't know, if in this day and age you go into a movie fully blind, not even checking a trailer or an imdb score or some review, you are being an irresponsible customer, not someone getting "scammed" don't be dramatic.
@magical571 Then why not call it "Arthur"? He knew customers would be as you said "irresponsible" and buy tickets. I see what you're saying. But Todd knew exactly what he was doing. I personally don't care..but I know a hustle when I see one. And he succeeded..Scam the studio and the DC fans..as maybe he should have.
@@Hoopsrocks You know what I mean haha
@@magical571then why would they even bring up the wayne family in the first movie? Why introduce us to bruce? Very misleading movie
He did the old southern lawyer bit 😂😂
I can't believe how lazy they were with all of the musical parts, we learn nothing new and it's just stating the obvious with no original songs
I'm so tired of "Creatives" Putting "Their Spin" on things or trying to use the movie to tell a "message".
This entire movie was "The fans get what they deserve!", it shows the hatred Todd has for the fans of the IP he is puppeting.
My main issue with the first was that it didnt have a real message except eat the rich. But the second manages to say nothing and at the same time do it "mit dem holzhammer"
They even used Scenes in the trailer to pretend he would become the Joker. They were never even in the film at all...
Characters aren't characters when they're merely mouth pieces.
Todd was pissed off that people tried to find meaning on his movie or that they repurposed for other things, like political protests (yeah, it's not like pop-culture osmosis usually does that).
He is a spiteful prick with luck.
@@RayCrowfield The message isn't in the movies Lore\scenes, the message is "Fans of the joker are POS" That's all. it was a direct insult to the fans themselves.
It's like he thinks people who like the joker want to literally BE HIM.
No, we don't, we just find his character interesting and compelling more so than the random powered up super villains with powers etc.
Todd doesn't get that. I'm sure this is political somewhat for him. It seems that way to me anyways. Like "Oh I sure Owned those Incels!" type of thing.
They were so blinded by shaming the audience for relating to joker that they lost the character altogether. Just sad
Knock Knock
Who's there?
Nobody. There's nobody there, Todd. You're shouting at the wall again...
Gotta say the shot of you with the green hand in the background, making it look like green hair, as well as the purple shirt looking like a purple suit. That is more faithful to the character than this whole movie.
All Copies of this Film should DISSAPPEAR into the Desert along with E.T Cartridges
I feel like if this movie would have been a deep dive into how Arthur absolutely needed the Joker persona to get out of the really bad situations he’s in but at the same time haunted by the Joker character and less on singing love songs and “Harley Quinn” it would be way more interesting and watchable
Nicholas Cage would have been an incredible Joker. Why hasn't Hollywood capitalized on this??
Nicholas Cage is just waiting for the right opportunity to save The Joker's reputation so he can reap in all of the rewards of swooping in and being the perfect movie messiah that he is.
Because William Defoe diserves first dibs
I think what bothers me the most is like within this Incel culture analysis there was like a really cool opportunity to show the issues with idolizing and worshiping really odd people who probably shouldn’t be on a pedestal but no, let’s turn this movie inside out, and just waste $200 million like I don’t understand how this got cleared and will start to be a good idea… I’m like deeeply upset lmaooo
I thought the first movie did a good job at this, sans 'incel'. Arthur laughed when Murray mentioned two protestors on the train died (during his escape from the detectives). Arthur time and time again admitted he wasn't politically motivated, he didn't believe in anything. The audience was given a glimpse of what an Arthur Fleck Joker could provide the less Nihilistic and more activistic of the rioters. He'd take them down with him, in a blaze of death and chaos.
100% I think the first movie did a good job setting that up because at the end of the movie despite all that he’s created, a movement he started his legacy. I was hoping to see him actually struggle with the world changing around him. I was hoping to see him try to embrace being the joker and literally make the world his joke because nobody else gave a fuck in the first movie, like he should hate everybody.. I wanted to see everybody even the people that thought he was cool realize that dude is insane and they created a complex
monster but instead we got like something very very different and I honestly don’t know what to think of right now
@RisingXAbove And instead, we get yet ANOTHER bad musical that's claims there's a Joker and Harley Quinn, but I don't see them anywhere...I just see Lady Gaga doing a HORRIBLY bad Harley Quinn impression, and Joaquin Phoenix in bad makeup, pretending to be The Joker; all while they both sing bad songs to each other? But also, just hates Batman and its fanbase, as well as The Joker and Harley Quinn?
I just really hate how polished and clean the new Joker film looks. It just doesn't have the sort of gritty feeling of the first one. That and the costumes. There has been a recent trending problem of the costumes looking like costumes. Nothing looks like it's worn by the character.
It was so trashy I went home and grinded my Bulwark on Space Marine II instead. I don’t think my friend was happy though that I just left him.
For the Emperor!
Death is our duty. Courage and honor!
oh he'll forgive you soon enough
Your friend needed your help processing the pain.
Fair enough id be mad if my friend left me alone at a disaster
I believe he's imitating the stereotypical "southern gentleman lawyer" when he does that accent. Something you see in a lot of movies, from To Kill A Mockingbird, and Inherit The Wind to My Cousin Vinny. Along with any courtroom drama that takes place in the south. and a thousand sketch comedy shows.
Done to good effect in Workaholics with the chupacabraj episode.
It's actually mind boggling how little people I've seen seeing this movie. I work at a theater and every showing has had like 2 people MAX. Even random horror movies with bad promo get more people watching
Good this movie is a waste of time
@@noobmasterruben5167As if you couldn't already tell from the trailer that it'd be NOTHING but a waste of your time and money. And Joaquin Phoenix? I'd say he's now the WORST Joker ever, after this movie. He's at LEAST, 10x worse than Jared Leto's version from Suicide Squad (2016). And also, we got the worst versions of The Joker and Harley Quinn, ever witnessed by mankind, in the WORST musical ever made, and I also award you, Fake Joker(what's his name again? Arthur?) the award for: "The Worst Singing Joker Ever".
@shawnfields2369 well the thing is the teaser actually looked decent. It wasnt until the official trailers made it look worse and turned off the hype around it
Charachter development and expanding on the universe are the basis of a sequal. Todd Philips wanted to make something edgy and unexpected instead of giving his charachter a decent arch, no suprise people rejected it.
Once again, subverting expectations backfires spectacularly.
Me to Todd Philips as he looks at the box office for this film:
“You get what you fucking deserve!”
I also wanna mention that I loved the 2019 Joker. It’s one of my favorite movies oat and I rewatch it every so often. So when I saw this movie not only did I hate it but it ruined the first Joker movie for me. I will always hate Joker 2 for that.
"I think we've heard enough of your jokes."
Star Wars fans, Joker fans, and The Last Of Us fans all in the same boat.
@@pintolerance785 yup 🙁
Have you considered that you’re just not the right type of fan?
apparently none of the fans are the right fans since it’s becoming one of the biggest box office flops of 2024. can’t blame the fans when the first movie was the one they fell in love with and the second trashed all over it.
This movie plays out like the Writer's hated the actors and refuse to acknowledge why
Actually Joaquin Phoenix was pretty eager on making a Joker musical
Batman: The Brave and the Bold did the musical numbers a trillion times better.
Now THAT'S a love letter to the Batman mythology
It had Joker with singing musical number-and it ruled
Holy musical b@man by team starkid is also a much better musical than joker2
@anastasiazhdanova1578 Wait, there was ALREADY a Batman cartoon musical number with The Joker?!? And it was GOOD!?! And it was Batman: The Brave and the Bold? Not Batman the Animated Series or even Batman Beyond? Huh...didn't know that...
Nic Cage as The Joker would be epic.
9:00 It's like this scene was literally MADE to describe Joker 2, it's insane.
21:17 he certainly succeeded in challenging audiences. But not in the way of challenging them intellectually or their perspectives.
They should have ripped off ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO'S NEST and had Arthur form relationships with Edward Nygma, and Victor Fries, and Oswald Cobblepot, and others in Arkham Asylum. The third movie could have been about him escaping from there and hooking up with his number one fan, Harley Quinnzel. But her roomate Selena Kyle is crazy and loves cats. I like the idea that in a world with no Batman, these people would still bump into each other. And we the audience would get to explore other Batman villains through the more serious lens established in the first JOKER, putting their illnesses and them as victims center stage. Instead we got this.
That's one way to go. Personally, I think that if they were gonna do a story heavily featuring Harleen Quinnzel, it should've been that the first movie was just a story that Joker was telling her in order to manipulate her. Like how in DCAU, he pretended to have an abusive father who was only happy once ever, when they went to the circus and saw the clowns perform.
"I like the idea that in a world with no Batman, these people would still bump into each other." Same, but my idea is that Batman wouldn't exist bc Bruce's parents never died. He just grew up with them normally.
I mean, he'd still be the infamously reclusive son of the Waynes, and he'd have that same itching hate against society's wrongs that only Arthur can recognize, despite trying his best to seem stable. So they'd still grow to have that dynamic where Arthur's impressed by his restraint yet taunts him for it, while Bruce fears seeing himself in a homicidal maniac.
Maybe near the end, he could be driven to beat the lights out of somebody who committed a crime, soaking his expensive suit, watch & cufflinks in blood... and he realizes he enjoys it. You'd wonder whether his parents' death caused him to be prone to violence, or he was always meant to be like this. So the idea wouldn't be that the Joker is a mask anyone can wear, but that there's a "Joker" in everyone: a primal side of you that wants to harm all those who cause harm, partly for your enjoyment. And you have to fight it daily by believing in people. Y'know... the original point of the Joker.
As you said at the end, all the villains would be grounded, so there's no superpowers or vigilante-isms, just politics & violence (I was thinking that since the first movie focused on interpersonal injustices, the sequel could delve into systemic injustice, with the Asylum being the setting and all).
A much simpler and much better idea. Speaking of which, the fact Jack Nicholson is Murphy in the film adaptation of One Flew is just amusing, he essentially is just Joker (then again, Nicholson basically plays the same character in every movie.. himself) so it really does feel somehow connected to the Burton movie, despite Muprhy's fate
@@officialtoddhoward69 What a great observation. I didn't even think about that.
@@spaghetto9836oooo I really like your idea
2:10 yup, I hoped for that
They actually managed to fall below Jared Leto's Joker. Thats impressive.
The Joker was so good I refuse to watch this. I also haven’t watched the first one since the theaters.
Long story, but I had to have surgery in Morocco when the 1st one came out. An American movie in a French-Arabic-Spanish country had a standing applause at the end of the film. I prefer to keep that as my only memory of this franchise.
I think this movie happened because of the audience they saw connecting with the original, and much like the star wars sequels, halloween sequels, the killing off of the Punisher in marvel comics, they don't like that audience.
Studios have so little faith in the cognitive function of the audience that they feel the need to literally tell the audience what to think.
@@Quick-Silver206 They think that audience rating on Rotten Tomatoes is bullshit, but its who's going to your movie.
@@Quick-Silver206 This movie had zero studio interference. meaning Todd got to do whatever he wanted. Todd even dictated where they filmed.
"killing off of the Punisher in marvel comics"
That never actually happened. He was part of the "War of the Realms" event in 2019 and joined the "Heroes Reborn" run in 2021.
In the 2022 - 2023 comic run, he got kidnapped by magic ninjas, had an entire story involving his wife's resurrection and then the god of war selected him as a possible champion. At the same time, a SHIELD agent temporarily took over his war on crime.
Why lie on the internet?
@@kriysixvector4552 I don't keep up with comics like I used to, basically 15 years ago, but I knew about this, found out from Razorfist. If they bring him back, its not because they like the fans of the Punisher, they like money.
“If you’re only in it for the money, you won’t be making any”
-Me, right now
Holyyyyy dude your merch is actually great.
14:53 I love the fact that there’s dramatic music like it was surprising in the slightest. Man literally confessed seconds earlier
honestly, the moment where someone asked the producers and director who the movie was for and they just said "Joaquin", was kinda the moment where everything went to hell, because if it wasn't for Joaquin's weird dream where he said he saw the next Joker being a musical; none of this would have happened
Not that I know of anyone who actually likes musicals, but I know even fewer people who wanted a sequel to a psychological crime thriller to be a fucking musical.
I like musicals
But joker was set up to fail as one from the start…
Fortunately it wasn’t a musical
@@lockesalive
Wut ?
my gf absolutely loves musicals and said this is one of the worst she’d ever seen. Who was the intended audience?
You've never seen, 'Cannibal The Musical'? It's a great Musical, one for the whole family!
4:03 i actually liked hangover 2 despite the rehash of the last film except now Alan and the gang are in Thailand
I totally agree with you 💯💯💯💯💯
I think going to his roots where he went fully overboard as the joker showed abusive traits to harley like his comic book counterpart and then having it end with him lonely surrounded by the destruction he caused when she leaves or maybe gets incarcerated or killed, anything is better than this
“You just wanted to see Freddy Kruger kill teenagers, to fulfill your own sick fantasies. Our society is so twisted. Here: here’s a Nightmare on Elm Street sequel where it’s a courtroom drama musical where Freddy Kruger denounces invading people in their nightmares and regrets his decisions”
I will be surprised if Warner Bros doubles down and confirms Joker 3 in another five years.
For those who criticize the film, you’re dumb. The director was a visionary-he made the Joker burn $200 million in real life, just like in the movies. That’s true immersion in the story
calling people dumb because they have different opinions is wild and doesn't make you a good person
@@juliahubert304this is satire. he said the movie wasted 200 million just like the joker would.
The director didn't know how to make a movie that isn't a silly comedy when he can't ripoff Scorsese movies
@@retronoodles_but_cooler lmao my bad im stupid hahaha
The sad part is that I think this concept about Arthur Fleck wrestling with this Joker legacy he created that tragically kills him in the end COULD have worked if they made that the main focus of the story instead of muddying up this narrative with the inclusion of Harley and making it a musical. Even a bad concept could be pulled off with strong and satisfying writing, something that Todd Philips unfortunately fell short on in this film.
6:13 best description of this movie; a dead fish in a flushing toilet. Watching him swirl around in a world pool as the world changes and does things around him, yet he does nothing, as the titular dead fish in said swirling toilet.
5:28 yup it was made by crazy ppl
Thanks for pointing out the similarities of the first joker to Taxi driver... That's why I felt like I've seen it somewhere else lol
Ha ha jonkler, why so serious, I'm da jokah baybee!
Society
Now yuo see
The second I heard it was to be a musical with Lady Gaga I knew the movie that didn't need a sequel was gonna have one witu a lot of baggage. And here we are.
I think it didn’t need a sequel but if done right it would have potentially saved the dceu even if joker was kept as its own entity. Writers need to draw from themselves but also what works; if joker 1 and 2 were both spectacular successes then they could formulate and structure more hero/ villain movies around the ideas present in the first film
@@haydenrippey im cool with arthur dying but they did it so terribly its fascinating.
@turtle4614 Yep, same here. I think you took the words out of my mouth, dude. Word for word.
I'm so upset about what they did with this movie. The first movie is great, and this one just ruins his character. I refuse to accept this movie as canon, it completely retcons the ending of the first one.
Todd Philips : *Never Again*
Not only was this movie not really needed, but the fact it basically ruined everything the first movie set up makes it so much worse.
one piece of media can't ruin another. Joker 1 exists on it's own. it's hilarious to me to see people act as if a movie and their sequels are some sort of conjoint twin. you can and should appreciate them on their own merits
Like the newer Star Wars movies, but a large part of that was that they were changing directors who kept retconning the last director’s story. Like the first movie played up Rey’s parents being important -> nope they were worthless farmers -> she’s a clone of Palpatine.
Is that what happened here? Was there a new director who hated the first movie?
@@magical571It absolutely can, by association.
If someone really liked the first movie, but hated the second, then watching the former will likely remind them of the latter, and impact how they view it.
It's the same as, say, watching a movie that has a twist villain who betrays the protagonists. Once you've seen the movie once, everything you see that character do on a rewatch is recontextualized by your knowledge of them being a traitor. You view their actions and words differently.
You'd have to completely block out the second movie for it to not affect your enjoyment of the first. Is this possible? Yes, for certain movies. Pacific Rim comes to mind as a film that can stand alone with you forgetting about the sequel. It wraps up clearly.
But Joker, to some extent, is a setup. It teases that there's more to come, it builds towards a conclusion. And blocking out said conclusion is way harder than blocking out a mostly standalone story in the same setting.
@@magical571 watch the slop and don't complain.
I still find it crazy how the joker movie is absolutely awful despite trying to be dark and gritty and stuff, while the Penguin mini series has a similar tone but is just better, like way way better, particularly in terms of writing. What is DC doing?
Thats just main stream failures
check their dumpsterfires like gotham knights or titans if you want to see true garbage
@@Milosz0pl so glad i deciced to never watch after they made starfire into a bwak street walker instead of the literal orange skinned alien she was.
@@housewilma4904 I watch dead topics that suffers by watching it. Dont worry - it got worse. Starfire got amnesia, just for reveal that random transport guy from her race was her lover, lover got killed by her sister and producers are now trying to make blackfire not so bad by giving her sad backstory
also she with other titans bullied robin into commiting self jump kill - I am not even joking
@@housewilma4904 It may shock you but every character is different in that show.
@@AL-lh2ht literally every other character is recognizable as a titan at first glance but starfire.
heck they even gave raven comically accurate hair even tho it looks dumb IRL.
Elvis acting like the joker “why so serious” beatbox scene didn’t make this movie a 10/10.
I don’t get why the first movie was such a big deal, since it was just a soft reboot to Martin Scorsese’s “The King of Comedy.” But I guess that enough modern movie fans haven’t seen that source material, and it wasn’t connected to a “DC Universe” IP, so…
Wait, isn't Harley Quinn supposed to be hot?
Exactly!!!
@daizee106 From what I remember about Harley Quinn; uh yes, she IS supposed to be hot, NOT: A. looking like they put a corpse in bad makeup.
B. Put that corpse in a bad wig. C. Made her look like she's in her mid 50s-early 60s.
I never really saw Joaquin as "the real Joker " because this movie always felt like some random thing that existed in isolation they weren't supposed to continue his story since Batman was never going to show up and Joaquim wasn't going to be part of any franchise
Thank you!!!!!
yes but that doesnt mean this movie is good xD
Neither movie is good... Specially as a JOKER movie@@Jellymiqo
The point was never for him to be seen as THE Joker but as an completely different timeline where joker existed as this character.
@@DianeCooperTW then what was the point of any of this then?