What Is The Point Of A Sub-100 Mile Range Electric Car?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ส.ค. 2023
- Who on earth is buying a car thaat can only do less than 100 miles between 're-fuelling'? Well, more than you'd think!
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I have a 2014 Nissan Leaf that shows me ~85 mile range each morning. We use it for almost all our driving, because almost all of our driving is local. For us, local is what we normally do. For the rare trips out of range we use a different car. Last year, 2022, we took only 2 trips afar. We are still on the same brakes and pads since 2017, when we bought the car. We only have to buy Tires, Windshield Fluid. Oh, and the rear wiper needed replacement. That's it. Please understand how much money can be saved by driving electric!
Yeah same here
Low mileage EVs are especially great for a two car family where only one person would need more range than that at a time.
You should test those Nissan Leaf and be sure the actual range.
Those cars are made with a bad battery tech that loses capacity. Average is like 50% loss, but there are more and more cases of ending up with as low as just one third of the initial as new capacity.
Nissan Leaf is the only car to have this serious problem, and facts prove it was intentional. Nissan is a japanese brand and they are anti-EV for various reasons, first of all is that china owns the raw resources and japan is not friendly with china.
But anyway, do a real world test and be sure how long you drive checks out, not what the car tells you.
Have a 2014 Leaf, 90% SOH, have sold the other car, the 2-3 longer trips a year is slow, but it works.
@@roberts.wilson1848I think you’ll find that Nissan is no longer owned by the Japanese,it’s mostly owned by Renault.
I have a MX-30, 115 miles on a full charge, i charge about once every 1-2 weeks and that's driving out of the city at the weekend. The media has done a good job convincing that everyone needs a 300+ mile EV when in reality "most people do not" (edited)
That's barely 10 miles a day. Buy a bicycle!
Have to disagree X. Glad it suits you as it looks a fine car. 115 wouldn’t last me a full day in work on some days. Charging halfway through the day obviously can be done, but I’d rather not. Hence I’m looking at a Zoe50 for my next car.
@@clarkwgriswold157 Most people commute less than 50 miles a day on average. So for that distance an EV that can do 100 miles range is fine..
@@Blackmamba12345 Agree BM. I was highlighting the fact X said “no one does” I do. I still say the Mazda is a stunning car for those it works for. I’m a little bias as my current car is a CX-5.
That's actually worse for the environment than buying a ICE, due to the embodied carbon.
We did. I have a 2021 Smart ForTwo EQ. 105 mile range currently on Eco setting. Down to 80 miles in the winter. It is used for trips around our county - an average distance of 15 miles each way, which is probably longer than most urban dwellers (we live on our farm in Pembrokeshire - 8 miles to our nearest shop). It has to do a 75 mile each way trip to Swansea for its annual service (which we did this week) - so we charged on a 22kw AC at a retail park before returning home. Perfect car for what we use it for. Charges mostly on solar at home.
Will appeal to pensioners. I'm one and i drive around 120 miles a week. Thats 2 charges a week. I use the 3 pin plug lead for my Hyundai Ioniq as i cannot warrant a £1000 for a charger. I would never recoup that outlay. I have a fixed deal with octopus of 26p a kw. Costs me around a tenner a week max.
There is some truth to needing a new battery after a few years. I have just had a replacement battery in my Kona EV after 4 years and 49000 miles (900 of them in the last week). Cost me a whopping £140. Nice chap from the AA fitted it in 10 minutes. Bosch 12v with a 5 year warranty.
We got a 22kwh Zoe as our first EV 7 years ago to see how it was to have an EV. But kept our second car for longer journeys. Found that we did almost more miles on the Zoe than the other as it was more fun to drive. 3 years ago we ditch the other car and got a 44kwh MG ZS as that has a good enough range for long trips (did a trip to Scotland in it within a few months of having it and did 1400 miles in 5 days. It's just a mindset change, if you aren't in the car, it should be on charge on a long trip, simple as.
We got a 24 kWh leaf in 2015 asa second car and it’s good for about 85 miles, when my diesel died we swapped for a model y because we also only really drove the leaf
The first rule of EV ownership is ABC
Lots of car owners report getting an EV as a second car or a town runaround for the wife (I know) and then using it as the main car over the "long journey" petrol car. Hands on experience trumps lies pushed by people with a vested interest.
ABC always be charging
I'm very much considering an EV to replace our aging Citroën C3 diesel and the Zoe is one of them, also my next company car is definitely going to be an EV as its way more tax efficient both for the company and benefit in kind, its a 'no brainer' when it comes to the finances. I've said for a while that owning or running an EV is very much a mindset shift.
Not so long ago I posted on your channel about me selling my 30kw leaf to buy a Dacia Sandero Bi-fuel, which was brilliantly cheap to buy and run my logic was sound. That was until Arnold Clark offered me a Zoe GT Line 134bhp, 21 plate 9k miles for under £15k (still £31.995 new). And got almost my money back for my one year old Dacia 6.6k happy cheap miler. Also 2.2 Apr if finance is needed. I just couldn't resist it and I'm so happy with everything about it! especially the heightened seat height ( perfect for over 65's)!
200 plus miles is perfect for me. I'm so glad to be back in an EV when you have covered 55K miles in a Fluence & Leaf and now the Zoe going forward I realized I had moved on and don't want to drive anything else, no matter how cheap it is. I thought you might want to know that.
The most popular EV among the members of my amateur radio club is a Mitsubishi i-MIEV, or its badge engineered equivalents. All with a range of less than 100 miles. Why? First, as a used car it is cheap to buy. Second, it is cheap to operate, with home charging. Third, the range is sufficient to take each of the owners to work and home again. Many of these people even stop at grocery stores on their way home from work. In some cases, the range is sufficient for up to an entire week.
The question I think you should be asking is, why should any commuter buy anything with excessive range?
Probably the same reason people buy enormous vehicles with other capabilities that they never use. Stupidity? Brainwashed by marketing? Keeping up with the neighbours? Unfortunately simple logic doesn't always work the way you would think!
The LFP (Lithim Iron Phosphate) batteries in the standard range Tesla and MG4 are rated to 5000-6000 cycles. 5000 cycles x 200 miles > 1 million miles. That's nearly 100 years of weekly charging.
Panasonic (who make Tesla Lithium Manganese Aluminium Cobalt batteries) are rated to 2000 cycles before degrading to 80%. That's probably typical of most EV batteries that aren't LFP chemistry. Or 3-4000 if you keep it between 15 and 85% most of the time. Charged once a week that's 2000/52 = 38 years. or 400,000 miles. And at 80% it's not dead. And rather than mine the materials new companies will take the battery and recycle it.
I know Tesla taxi companies with cars that have over 250k miles and are still with over 90% their original range!
The exception is early Nissan Leaf's that did not have any cooling/heating circuit (tubes of coolant running through the battery) and parked in Arizona got to 60C (unshaded Tarmac) and were failing sooner.
I get 260 miles from my Model Y standard range. Most days I do less than 20 miles so the Zoe would be perfect but I visit clients all over England so the peace of mind offered by the charging network swayed me to the Tesla. Currently trying to persuade my wife to swap her BMW for something electric.
Nissan LEAFs and Renault Zoes still do not have cooled batteries. They now have higher capacity batteries, but they're still air cooled. That makes them the most problematic EVs to own at higher ages.
However, because they've been on the market longer than almost any other, there is an increasing number of specialists who can swap the old batteries out and put in higher capacity ones in their place.
To my knowledge, all of what you say is true. But the Nissans are still good. I bought my eNV200 van with the small battery second hand some 5-6 years ago. It had crap mileage when it was new. It had the same crap mileage when I bought it. As far as I can tell it gets the same crap mileage now after the 8 or 9 years of its life with 80k miles on the clock. No battery change needed, just tyres, brakes and washer fluid.@@davidcolin6519
Our Zoe is now 8 years old. Just passed MOT with no advisories for 5 year running. Still getting indicated 85 mile range in summer using home charger. Maximum journey we make is around 80 miles round trip but just in case top up battery at relatives using 3 pin “granny” plug. So agreeing with everything you say. Second vehicle is 17 year old X Type Jaguar which also passed recent MOT with no advisories having done just 1200 miles in last year!
I agree. Same experience here with a 2016 30kWh nissan leaf. The savings in fuel by keeping the turbodiesel car only for long trips pay for the extra costs of the Leaf (insurance, MOT, maintenance, depreciation...) and still leaves about 200 pounds/year of savings. And that doesn't take into account the lower maintenance cost on the tuebodiesel car. It completely makes sense for our family, too.
We have the “split hybrid” combo with a turbo diesel too.
Exactly. A modest range EV is a perfect second vehicle, for around town. For many households, only one vehicle is needed for long trips, the other could be a runabout. I've been enjoying the series on this inexpensive modest range used EV, and your experiences and takeaways.
After seeing your "I've bought an electric car for under £5k", I realised that fuel / train ticket costs would be near £6k for the next 2 years of travel. Our office has free EV charging so we decided to buy a second hand leaf (30kWh) as a second car - if the car is worth £0 in 3 years time then it will have saved us £3000, that's a 50% return on investment over the 3 years and arguably the car will still have value at that point. We're very grateful for this series of videos.
It is amazing how many times I try to ask a question or make a helpful comment on a video and say which PHEV that I own in the process and there are always trolls who post the most ridiculously ignorant comments within just minutes. And none of these comments is even functional...Such as "Too bad the [insert car here] sucks!!!" You need to own and drive a vehicle for a period of time before you can comment on its effectiveness. Thanks for your videos EVM. Love your content.
My 2014 bmw i3 rex still gets 90 miles in summer, nearly never use the rex either. The i3 really does have an exceptional battery and is the perfect every day commuter. I love the thing and will keep it for ad long as i can. Maybe one day a battery upgrade will be possible when it starts to get past best.
That video was brilliant. Pure logic. Well done mate. 👍
I agree! I have gone more extreme though and have a Peugeot ion (55 mile range on a very good day) for my daily 22 mile round trip commute. It cost less than £3k! I do the night charging with octopus and it works PERFECTLY! If you still love your petrol/diesel then suit yourself, but your missing out. It feels great to be saving money and not be funding shell!
Have you had the not going into ready fault yet?
Our iOn was great. Still miss it. It was our “proof of concept car” for EVs. It did share a drive with a Skoda Superb though. We went full electric with our next EV.
@@martinstab2Isn't extraordinary how everybody knows that all EVs have such-and-such a problem. Yet nobody brings up the MINI plastic water pump housing (can't cope with 3 years of heat cold cycles) M-Bs timing belt catastrophes, or any one of a slew of problems related to ICE cars. But mention an EV, and everybody is claiming all sorts of BS from fires to exorbitant service costs through to God-knows-what.
Don't worry about what the actual data tells us, I want to know if you've had such-and-such a problem that I've heard about on t'interweb
@@davidcolin6519 I wasn't poo pooing evs I have a ion I think more people with ions need to know about the fault that causes not ready as it's a very cheap fix
@@The_Hero_Is_Back yeah think it's a great car for it's size not many people make a light weight ev if the battery ever dies on it I think I'm going to find a way to upgrade it (there is a company in the Australia or New Zealand I can't remember which one that will sell your a new battery for the same price as Mitsubishi but with 3+times more range and it weighs the same that's how much the world has moved on shince 2009 )
We have a BMW i3 33kWh EV (not Rex). We’ve had it from new and have done about 33,500 miles in it. It’s brilliant as a second car. It’s surprisingly quick. And there has been zero deregradation of the battery in six years.
Me too and no degradation
We bought a BMW i3 a little over two months ago. Original 22kWh battery. 8 years old. Same experience. Since we bought it, the other car (a Diesel) rarely moves. I got home from a long trip (Cape Town to Windhoek) and parked it in the garage with the half a tank that was left over. 5 weeks later, when I had to drive that same trip again, it was still on that tank...
That's just the fuel. Not counting the wear and tear...
Love your channel, and you make so much sense :-) I personally have a Hyundai Ioniq 6 that will do 350 miles on a full charge, but guess what, I very rarely drive more than a couple of miles a day! The reason I bought such a "powerful" car was nothing to do with the fact it is electric, or even that it can do so many miles - I bought it just because I love the shape, the tech and the comfort of the car - I really don't care about anything else, I just buy what I like - just like all the other cars I have owned, whether electric or ICE, I have even had a couple of motor homes/camper vans. Keep up the great work and don't let all of those negative "I know best" idiots who leave stupid comments stop you.
It just has to be cheap enough. My 2012 LEAF bought in 2017 for $7,000 US dollars had 60 miles range then, now 40. Still good enough for my around town car.
How many miles had it done when you bought it and how many miles have you done in it?
You're right though, the price should reflect what you're getting
The oldest LEAFs had poor battery chemistry. This Zoe still has its original range.
Nissan Leafs don't have liquid cooling/heating circuits. Their batteries started failing earlier as a result. They especially didn't like Arizona, Texas, etc with 50 consecutive days over 100F and left out in unshaded parking spots! Not very good for a hot battery that's not big to then be used to drive someone somewhere when there's no cooling system.
@@markyates5744 and the pre-2015 battery chemistries weren't as good. Not sure how well the newest batteries are doing.
Like lots have said already, sub 100 mile range cars have loads of utility. I bought my 60ah i3 last August (80 miles in summer, 60 in winter) as our family’s second car and a little runaround. It ended up being the main car, even with two toddlers, and I’ve done 16000 miles in the last year. Only used the wife’s diesel car for longer trips. I reckon I’ve DC charged 5 times so home charging has been the reason it works so well. Now we’ve replaced the diesel car with a 2020 e-Niro which means all the bases are covered, but I still use the i3 for the local runaround trips.
You are absolutely spot on with the low use 'second' car logic. Our second car has averaged about 4,000 miles per year for the last 20+ years. For the most part that is local journeys mainly sub 20 miles round trip, with an occasional 40 mile round trip. Which is perfectly "doable" in the early model Zoe. Unfortunately even your £4.5k Zoe (plus another £1k for home charger) is out of reach just now, the savings are there to be had but they require some level of 'capital' upfront, and if you don't have the cash then its not going to happen. Its just the same with home solar, to make it work you really need to be able to buy outright up front, but if you don't have the £10k then it isn't going to happen. Sure, there will always be folk who CAN make these choices, but I bet there are far more who would like to but can't afford to. There should be some sort of government backed finance scheme that is available to anyone who wants who wants to 'pursue' green objectives, not wanting subsidies but just underwrite 0% apr for any green purchase would be a help.There is one significant factor in making these decisions that is probably taken for granted by many people. If you want to make the investment in say a home car charger or to a greater level solar panels you need some sort of certainty about how the future might be for you, with either of these you need time to recoup the investment, there is a huge amount of instability in the world right now which leads to a very unpredictable future for many people.
Ok, so where do I plug in when I live in a block of flats with only on-street parking available..? No way the council around here is going to put charge points down every street in the city any time soon.
I have the matching pair, A Zoe ZE50 220 mile range, and for all my local shopping a 24kw LEAF 75 miles, all filled up for free on my Solar
I bought a Zoe R240 April 2022 and haven’t regretted it once. I’m doing
Yep, I’ve got a 9 year old 22kw Zoe, it’s our 2nd EV that I use. I commute twice a week 20 miles to work. So I only charge it once a week on IO. Also I just got 3phase and it will charge in less than an hour! 😀
Just purchased an old Vauxhall Ampera, claims about 50 miles, does about 45, even being a 10 years old car. For me, it's perfect, most journeys are less than 40 miles, but it switches to petrol for long journeys. Not sure why this type of car isn't more popular, I think there was just this one and a BMW i3 when I was looking around.
Mazda MX-30 now has the same technology for the same price as its pure EV sibling. Others may well follow suit.
Phev works well for me. EV all local charged cheaply or for free via home solar then no compromises onblong journeys
I have the BMW i3 with the Range Extender. It works fine for me. I can drive over 90% on electric but still do long journeys without too much inconvenience.
I had a plug in hybrid for several years, worked great. Overnight charging at 110V, 12A, got me 40-42 miles (65-70 km) for my daily drive, and if I needed more, or took a long trip, the car just automatically turned on the generator, I typically wouldn't even notice until a mile later. Easy. I'd only buy gasoline (petrol) once a month. The rest was overnight charging in my garage at 12c/kWh, equivalent of $1.30/gallon of gasoline by my calcs (0.27 GBP per liter).
Hybrids are pointless. As you demonstrate you almost never need the extra mileage for your daily driving. If the car was pure electric you could have the extra mileage you need without the expense of lugging around an ICE engine.
I have a 2003 mk4 golf estate and a 2014 24kw Nissan leaf.
The golf does the long motorway runs.. but 90% of the driving time (not miles) is in the leaf.
To me it’s about using the right tool for the job.
Air pollution is a problem and the setup I have works fine
A few years ago my work commute was less than 20 miles a day, in fact I often used a push bike. Your Zoe would have been ideal for me, for a warm, dry and cheap commute!
We have a 2015 22kW Zoe as a second car for local trips. We charge it at home with solar / zappi. It's great, cheap to run and nippy and practical.
Some very clear information here, well done. We run 2 EVs neither of which are very high range, a 30kwh Leaf which has been utterly reliable and was our main car initially. We found we were using the petrol car we held on to so little that we replaced that with a Peugeot e208 which is now our main car.
Great video, keep them coming.
Great commentary and well said. EVM tells it like it is.
A small 2nd car is always worth having. They're brilliant for our tight roads and small car park spaces. If you can charge at home, a used Zoe makes a lot of sense for all the reasons you said. Plus, for a city car / local shopper, an auto is very useful but small cars tend to either not have an auto option or the auto options are rubbish. A small electric car completely solves that issue and will be a lot nippier away from the lights! We have had a Smart For Four EQ and now an i3. The i3 is a much nicer car but I miss the smaller dimensions of the Smart. Our Honda CR-V hardly ever gets used, basically just for longer trips or tip runs
Love the video! I'm in the states, am retired, wanted to try out an EV so I bought a 2016 Chevy Spark EV. I'm fortunate I have a driveway/garage I can charge at. When I was working my commuter car was a motorcycle 20-30 miles round trip so the Spark EV would've been a good commuter if I was still working. I've had the car over 3 years now and it still fits my needs. If I could get 150 miles of range I'd be extremely happy and yes our long trip vehicle is an Outback.
For years ago I watched your video on the mg zs ev I am severely disabled and I decided to get one even though I live in a third floor flat I currently have a twenty metre type 2 to type two cable running from my house to the call After 3 years of using the cable and having Nicole on the 1st of September. Kia nero as you say it is the Car you're ever Need The things I have learnt over 3 years. I donid1878 t like the smell of petrol or diesel. And I find an electric card just easier to drive Just keep doing what you're doing I do over 60000 miles every 3 years. I am solely dependent on the car. By my calculations I have saved Eight thousand pound in fuel
I have a 2017 Leaf which I bought last year, it gets 111 miles on a full charge. I use it for commuting (3 days a week, under 20 miles a day), visiting family and shopping. It's a lovely car, nice to drive and suits me fine. I won't be replacing it until I have to!
My Honda e has only got a 100 mile range. I've had it for 2.5 years. I love it. I sadly (wish I did more) cover around 7500 miles a year (or 22 miles a day average), all without leaving South Yorkshire, which is a compact county. I live 3 miles from work too. Charge at work, so it's full (or whatever I set it too) when I leave work. Our Kia diesel (blurg!) does the long trips, caravan, tip runs, 5+ trips, dog etc. I consider that our second car as I personally choose the Honda for everything I can get away with as I love it so much. Best car I have had in 35 years of driving. If I had to change it today for my life today, I'd get another, which has never happened to me before. Normally I've picked a different replacement out after a few months.
Have you thought about ditching the KIA diesel and just having a hire car for the longer journeys? My experience has been that I so rarely need that extra range that it is simply cheaper to hire a car.
@@davidcolin6519 My wife uses the dirty diesel everyday and we tow a caravan 6 times a year which is not easy in an EV yet.
@@IslaSprollie I certainly didn't mean to imply that a short range EV is enough for everybody, just that far too many people dismiss them because they do a 200 mile trip once a year.
I myself occasionally do a 1000+ mile trip about once a year, rarely more than once. Under such circumstances, it is definitely cheaper to hire a vehicle for that one occasion.
@@IslaSprollie Now you can get an EV for your wife with a higher range that covers anything that would happen frequently; sell the caravan; fly and stay in motels and rent cars all with the annual savings.
@@aussieideasman8498 I’d love to sell the caravan but I would be dead murdered !!
Loving the Zoe videos, we have a Kia E Niro as a family car and my wife goes to work in it 60 miles a day. I have a 22 kWh Zoe like yours for local runs school runs etc. Do longer journeys in the Zoe occasionally, but finding less 22 kw chargers around now.
A really good video. I absolutely get the point of that car. It would suit my wife’s commute to and from work for the three days she goes a total of 12 miles a day.
We bought a leaf 5 years ago after watching your channel ,great car , apart from tyres and 2 pollen filters ,had to replace a ball joint for the mot , not bad for an 8 year old car , well happy with it , used to do 60 miles a day commuting , now retired its a local shop , tip and chippy duties as I've got a camper for longer trips 😊
I've been watching you for years .. and still have (as my one main car) my 2015 22kWh Zoe! I get 4.6m/kWh in the summer and expect to keep it for at least another two years for my daily commute of 25 miles. It's perfect for me!
Hi just bought my first EV an egolf absolutely love it smooth fast comfortable got 140 miles on first charge with steady driving.Your videos and advice is first class keep it up buddy💪.
We swapped my wife’s polo for an egolf. Bit more than 100 miles but only just. She does about 80-90 miles a week so even with low range she only charges at weekend
Possibly your most poignant and eloquent video to date. Easily accessible by all - love your analogies Loving your channel. Well done.
We decided to dip our toes in the BEV world nearly 5 years ago when we bought a 2012 Peugeot ion second hand. Brilliant family runabout and still charges to low 70s in the summer and 60s in winter. 60,000+ miles on the clock. Still on original brake pads etc. Adore that car.
My 30KW/hr LEAF has a usable range of 110 miles, around 170km ... although I've run it "dry" to 200km and still got home.
I charge it almost exclusively from my Solar panel so my fuel is free and .... get this....95% of my trips are less than 110 miles. Fundamentally it's a "runaround" that never visits a petrol station.
Very easy to drive, very relaxing, pretty quick off the mark, silent. Servicing costs 130Euros at a Nissan dealer.
I have a cheap (Dacia Lodgy) petrol car for the other 5% of driving (Towing, load lugging, long journeys..etc).
My next car will most likely be a MG4 extended range with a tow ball. a genuine 250 mile range (possibly >300 with a prevailing wind) is as much as I want to drive without a coffee and stretch.
That means I can run just the one car..... and never pay for fuel!!!!
That's great. I don't own a car but have been following the evolution of Electric vehicles for quite a few years as I'm interested in the technology and battery science. My concern is that the Government won't want to lose the income from fuel duty and will introduce some form of tax per mile to replace it. It would be quite simple to introduce from a technical point of view, and they may well start off with a lower tax per mile for Electric vehicles, but I think that or a similar scheme are unfortunately inevitable.
@@devjon123 Victoria (Aus) already taxes per Km. It's wicked.
I'd love an EV but can't justify the cost given I only drive around 1,000 miles a year. The fuel savings won't offset the outlay
However that does mean that a car that's lost a lot of range is perfect for me
It sounds like when the vehicle you are using at the moment does finally need replacing, if you want an EV, you'll have choice in abundance. In a couple more years, it probably won't make financial sense to replace it with an ICe car.
1000 mile per year, cheaper to uber.
Love your videos. We have ioniq 5 namsan as the long range car and the wife has a 22 Zoe for work and shopping. 👍👍
Excellent video. The issue of range anxiety has driven the size and cost of electric vehicles to be big and expensive, not helped by the slow roll out and cost of the charging network. After all at it’s widest the United Kingdom is 300 miles (500 km) across. From the northern tip of Scotland to the southern coast of England, it is about 600 miles (1,000 km). No part is more than 75 miles (120 km) from the sea. Tesla’s understandably are designed for America.
Whilst waiting for my first Mini SE, I had the Countryman SE, during the first year of Covid with travel restrictions, I noted, the car operated totally on electric, which then got me to review my critical use of my car. I am now with my second Mini SE, which has achieved an average of 5miles/KWh since I got it last December whilst using the lights wipers, heater and air conditioning at times, an improvement on the first Mini SE, clearly the BMW software people have been at work. A big advantage is I can charge during the narrow U.K. off peak window and fortunately there is reasonable instavolt coverage where we have wanted to go on the occasional long trip. PS we have been to Cornwall two adults two Jack Russells and luggage, 323 miles with 4 stops. Around 5 hours, including 1 hour 30 minutes for the stops, to top up the battery and have a break walking the dogs. Pre-planning long trips is the key with the cars navigation and app software, I understand that is not everybody’s cup of tea.
I have bought a Leon Cupra PHEV for the very reasons you talk about here. It replaced my Leon Cupra 290hp petrol car. Since owning its saved me a lot of money on my small commutes where the petrol Cupra used to eat fuel. On average my around town per mile price is around a 3rd it used to be. It has a real world EV range of 32 miles which is surprising how many journeys fall inside this bracket. I can only granny charge through a rated extension cable so this suits me for business & private use perfectly.
the zoe is one of the best batteries, i did 50 miles in 18 months in a zoe 40kwh when they first cme out and i commuted weekly from cornwall to London and charged to 100% and drained to 1-2%. when i sold the car a guy checked my battery with a dongle and battery was at 97%
My grandfather has one and he loves it, gets him to the shops,docs, football,park,😊
Exactly that EVM! I have a Touareg for family vehicle and pulling caravan and had a 2nd car for work, which racks up 15,000 miles a year, that I didn't want to do in the Touareg. I used to have an older A3 TDI for the commute but have now swapped that for a BMW i3 purely for running costs and ongoing servicing / maintenance costs. Have also convinced my brother to do the same thing.
well presented case.
Today I noticed what I believe is Tesla building before schedule. It looks like they have already finished most of the foundation for a new Supercharger location. Previously announced to open Q1 in 2024.
I don't think I'll use it that much because it's only 2.4 km (1.5 miles) from home, but it's nice to have the option just in case.
I did use rapid chargers in the neighborhood a few times, when I had an eGolf, before I switched to a Model 3 SR+.
I have used the Supercharger 15 km away from home, just a few times, but it's nice to get one exen closer, just in case.
Definitely made me think, take into consideration maintenance cost and home charging. My next car will be an EV😊
If you're a city dweller and you have charging available, this is ok for the fair price. 5000-6000 at most.
With a 90 miles range you can last several days of commuting to work
Uk average is +7000 miles /year
You can imagine for a city dweller is closer to half of that.
So, you end up with a daily need of 10-20 miles pretty much exactly what this type of Zoe handles.
Charge it every weekend on a slow charger and that's it.
What's wrong with charging it every night? Our i3 has a range of 60 to 70 miles. It does somewhere between 30 and 50 miles every day. Charges on cheap power overnight, and is good to go again. Done 60k miles in 4 years used like this, and it's still meeting our needs just as well as it did on day 1. We've enjoyed using it so much, our petrol "family" car has been replaced with a Tesla Y. i3 is good for a couple more years yet.
Nicely said you’re the man 👍🥰
Good points well made.
My wife insists on holidaying in our caravan and so we have to have a Land Rover to pull it at about 27mpg -plus all of the expensive servicing costs. I try to use it as little as possible for obvious reasons.
Our other car that we have had for the past five years is a Nissan Leaf 24kW version that we use the majority of the time. My wife hated it initially but now she absolutely loves it. We rarely need to travel more than 70 miles in a day and we are able to charge in our drive and so it suits us.
Hopefully in the future we will be able to have one electric car that suits all of our needs but sadly that is not currently the case.
I also have the same Zoe as you. I can charge at home. I only drive around Sheffield, and occasionally a trip to Manchester. This is perfect for me, I don't need any more really.
We have a 1st gen i3 as our only car, we bought it 4yrs ago with 42k on the clock, it's now got 103k. It's the range extender model so can also run on petrol, but less than 10% of those 61k miles I've added have been powered by dino juice.
The electric range has barely changed since we've had it, it'll easily do 65 miles before needing to start burning petrol.
Great video, well informed and you are so right about the people who have never owned an EV. I had a guy said to me the other day whilst I was charging at Tesco, Yeh but they don't work do they and I said excuse me have you looked at the registration of my car, it's a 63 registration and still going strong with a 97% battery state of health. Yeh but how much range do you get out of it, 2 to 3 miles less on a charge than when I bought it in 2015 and then it was on 100% They just do not have a clue about EV's at all.
Our 10 year old zoe has served us well. Work from home with a home charger on octopus go. Charger every night and does school runs, shopping trips and family outings. Our diesel is sat in the drive for family holidays and weekends away. The short trips were killing the engine and the battery.
Good video.
You definitely answered the "who is it for?" question.
I am still debating if I keep the PHEV for long trips & get a modest EV for around town & live with the extra insurance cost OR trade in the PHEV and go full EV singe I can charge both at the house and the office.
The common sense "if the current car is working just fine, why not keep it?" argument is also factoring in. 🙂
What a good explanation video.
I went into our local HEVRA garage and pronounced it like you did, like everyone does and the bloke didnt know what I meant! Accused me of using an unheard of acronym even though he had wall full of certificates, I ended up at the dealership for this year, got the warranty stuff done. I'll be using Cleeveley's mobile next year!
Its funny, I can't charge at home but I researched locally and found we're well served for chargers. Whats funny is that Tesla chargers are quite hard to come by in our area. We're only a one job over sixties couple so no possibilty or need for a second car. As a result we went for the small battery and terrific range of the Ioniq 38kWh, suits us great. As you say everyone's circumstances are different, great points well made, as ever.👍
Tesla Superchargers are not primarily designed for everyday local charging. They are for when you are on longer trips away from home. The assumption being that they are charged at home (I appreciate this isn't an option in your own situation.) In Tesla terms the most useful Supercharger is 100+ miles from home ... because you start off with plenty of range and do your stops when away from your locality. That's why many of them are on main motorway routes.
78% of UK households have a car. 65% of UK households have off road parking. For these people the case is strong. For the rest there will be no pressure to change for many years.
I've managed with my first generation BMW i3 (~19 kWh). Range is max 130 km. It is perfect in the city and charging at home. Long distance just needs planning and takes more time.
We've got an i3 and an ioniq. Both around 150 mile range. Plenty for our use case.
The mobile phone charging analogy is perfect.
We bought a Smart EQ at c. 90 miles range. We live in Cornwall and do not like gassing people in our locality. It is our first EV and it suits us v. well at present. We do have a diesel car for longer journeys. Solar panels mean that a lot of the time we are running on the rays of the sun. We will be getting another EV once batteries have more range and are cheaper over the next few years.
A car with a 100 mile range would be more than enough for me to use as a main car.
The absolute maximum I would do in one day would be 75 miles, a return journey to Newcastle to visit family.
In fact, I could probably make do with a 50 mile range if charging was reliable, but Im not sure I would trust it!
I live in the center of the city, I usually drive less than 1 mile at a time (driving a cripple around), not good for petrol engines at all.. 100 miles would last me a couple of weeks.
Having a 2nd car makes sense but our government has its hand out as usual with like $800 / year per car registration. There's no 2nd hand EV market here yet either.
I do have a second car but it's a diesel 4x4 that maybe gets 500 miles a year but it's needed to access certain road nearby with cargo. And the main car is an electric one with just 190miles range that usually needs to be charged twice a week overnight at the house.
Every household can have different needs so I'm sure there's a market for everything
I agree. Also, if you are using a low-range car for everyday use and you only need a longer range a couple of times a year to go on holiday or visit family then maybe it makes more sense to hire a car for those couple times in a year.
I’m in. Buying a 2016 Leaf (24), as a 2nd car for local journeys. Busy looking through your older Leaf 24 videos. Did you do any videos on D mode vs B mode?
Hmmm, food for thought! When I retired in January I spent some lump sum on a BMW, very fast, very nice and mpg from 33 to 47. However, big diesels don't like short runs so I have now bought a cheap runabout, for running about locally. Yes a Zoe or Leaf would be ideal for the local runs and nice and cheap to run. However, my 2005 Astra does about 40 mpg on petrol, not too bad, main thing is that I bought it for £800, not for a few thousand with another thousand for a home charger. In a couple of years maybe the Astra will be beyond economic repair, that would be £400 a year for the buying of it over it's life in my hands. I thought a PHEV would be my best option as I could bimble locally on electrickery and pour a fossil or two in for long distance, however they are outside my price range by a lot. I am now regularly driving a self charging hybrid as a taxi, another pricey option outside my price range, not bad but not brilliant and drinks more than my old diesel Clio did, okay it is nicer than that thing but I couldn't live with it, lousy headlights, not a good reversing camera, very slow infotainment thingy and very buzzy going up hill or on fast roads, but then I suppose that is the Toyota Auris hybrid! One day, maybe an electric thing will be in my price range as a second car, but probably not before I am dead!
My wife has a Smart ForFour and she loves it. It glides along the road so smoothly. Its perfect due to the low mileage she drives. If you can have a charger installed at home as it changes everything. Currently using OVO Anytime at @ 10P KW.
I drive a 63 Reg Zoe and I cannotcharge at home either and it is my only car as well, and the battery is leased as well. I have 4 Pod Point chargers within a two minute walk of my house in the local Tesco supermarket.
We have a second car - initially as we were both working and now we are retired it’s still useful - we have a mini electric - does 140 miles at moment and 100 miles in winter - nippy and small(ish) - great for shopping, local journeys , taking dog out and we have a ix3 electric which has the size and range for longer trips - works well although we’ll probably manage on one car when the mini eventually dies 😊
@evm I have been driving electric for the last 2 years. But after doing a few bits of distance driving over the summer can’t take public charging any more. I have had to order a mild hybrid instead.
Having to queue for ages to get on a charger, chargers not working. Got to Milton Keynes coach way today to find one ionity out, 5 cars queued in front of me to get on the remaining 3. So had to sit on an old bp pulse banging out 22kwh not 50, pondering what I did wrong in a previous life.
Nothing wrong with ev cars, it’s the lack of decent charging. Might try again in a few years.
I'm considering getting a small L6e class car maybe; to skip the local toll roads to be installed next year, while I am temporarily unregistering my main car the days I do local commute, to save insurance and road tax.
Then my daughter can train for an AM license to drive L6e until she's old enough for B license.
After that I'll reevaluate the options for the second car but that's still more than half a decade into the future.
Maybe we'll switch to an L7e class, to keep skipping the toll roads, but get normal speed.
Do have to be a bit careful with some old leaf batteries, esp the 30KWh ones can have issues with bad cells.
I think it’s due to the heat build up and is specific to the leaf30 though. I’ve not heard of such issues with Zoe’s of a similar age.
I actually think the leaf 24s might be holding up better than the 30s
Yes. Our 2016 30kWh Leaf has almost 20% degradation and realistically doing over 60 miles in it would be very hard at this point. Leaf spy shows about 21kWh usable at full charge last time I looked a few months ago
There was a change to the battery chemistry in the leaf I read, the very early ones (pre 2013) were prone to degradation, our 2015 leaf just lost one bar at 45k miles and at 80% charge shows about 70 mile range. We only charge at home though so it never gets that hot and fast charged.
We have a smart fortwo for our local journeys (main) and a diesel c3 Picasso for longer ones. Problem was that we were not using the Picasso enough and the battery needed replacing (irony?).
Would love a bigger EV but know it wouldn't get used enough. So sticking with what we have. Here in France we don't have to pay road tax, so costing me zilch!
I am retired and only drive about 5K miles per year and a
What is the break even point? Our main car is a petrol mpv, which we love but is thirsty in around town driving (but efficient on long runs). We don't drive many miles a year, mostly round town with the occasional long journey. How many miles would you need to put on the EV to pay for it's purchase, installing a home charge point and the extra insurance etc?
You're 100% correct as usual.
Of course, once the battery is not up to the job, it can be used for home battery storage with very little work
Spot on mate I agree
Spot on.
Got a 24kwh leaf. Had it 8 years. Perfect 2nd car ideal for commute each day.
We have a BMW i3 rex. I got the rex because I wasn't sure about going full ev. I also had a Tiguan until recently. After 2 years of ownership of the i3 I think that I have actually filled the tiny petrol tank 4 times. We have recently sold the Tiguan because we realised that we did not need it. The next car that I buy will be a full ev. We charge at home and mainly use excess solar.
Currently using a 40kWh leaf as our main and only vehicle. It'll do about 120-150 miles on a charge. Had it almost 3 years and never felt like I never had enough range to go anywhere I want to go. I don't understand the people that think this is "local" mileage. It's a long way, open google maps and try setting it as a radius. One rapid charge doubles that, effectively. People just think they need 500 miles in a tank at all times when in reality they're just carrying a load of (expensive) fuel around very inefficiently most of the time.
We started our EV journey 7 years ago thanks to you and Ian Sampson. Our daily drive was less than 10 miles and the Punto was still warming up when we stopped, fuel consumption was horrendous. Test drove a 30 leaf and bought on great deal with a free Pod point install. Did a few long trips but for our usage was ideal. I to have given up on taking EV there seems to be some hate out there for EV,ers. We are either stupid or entitled twats. Keep doing the video's and reviews 👍
Hi from Accrington! - looks like you are fairly local :) Been using my 16 plate Zoe as my only car for last 5 years, been a cracking car, you got an absolute bargain with that one! One to be aware of, I haven't found the servicing that cheap especially if you stick to main dealers - Proper brake fluid change is £400 plus - requires full battery lock out and interrogation of ECU to complete properly. Also coolant change at 5 years isn't that cheap either. 12v battery also recommended every 3 years (£150 at main dealer). Love the car though and my battery health is still at 96% after 82k miles.
"I haven't found the servicing that cheap especially if you stick to main dealers " ... well, I think you've just identified the fly in the ointment! Fortunately there are non-dealer options nowadays.
@@MrAdopado always the risk with using none dealer though if you end up needing a warranty repair. I know it's not supposed to matter but can end up causing problems. Don't get me wrong though they are cracking cars and still cheap to run even with the higher servicing costs
My old Think car (old ev car) had less than 40 mile range. It did the job in the good old days.
What is the insurance like on the Zoe?
My little Renault Zoe is a fantastic little car!! I find her a lovely car to drive, great for a small town like Broxbourne and Hoddesdon!! She’s great for motorway travel too!!
Shots fired Geoff buys cars & macmaster lol love it
Another comment, and an idea for a ‘Whiteboard’ video. How about having one older/lower range EV and hiring a long range EV for perhaps the twice-yearly longer journeys (or an ICE if you really can’t cope with the thought of public charging)? How would the costs compare to owning 2 cars, or just one car that can do 600 miles?
Taking it a step further, having one car @ $50,000 (Aus. Dollars) sitting in the garage mostly not being used is bad economics. Best to sell, invest in solar panels & hire car for longer trips.