Which Home Battery?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ม.ค. 2024
- Harry has made the jump into the home battery sector, but which one has he gone for and why?
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#homebattery #homeenergy #battery - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I know, I know! I'm useless! - This (due to what happened near the end of the vid) is why this has only turned up for members a day earlier than Public.
Let's call it a blip! 🤨
Do you still have a link to Octopus Energy please?
@@christopherclark1348 should be in the description of any vid. 👍
Great video. One question not answered by any YT channel is, how does having a home battery affect home insurance? I would love to get a home battery, but knowing whether to install inside or outside the brickwork could be a cost driver.
Example, I get a battery and save £XXX pound a year in electricity, but have to pay £XXX more in insurance because the battery is inside the house walls.
Could you please cover this in one of your follow up videos, also capturing solar and heat pumps please? (the holy trinity of installs)
@@ElectricVehicleManwas Octopus your GivEnergy installer as well?
@@johnh3095 It’s made no difference to me and anyone i know. Anymore than a gas boiler would. (Gas leak anyone?)
check how hot your loft gets in summer, might be pushing 50, so inside the battery/inverter unit will be a lot more, electronics dont like excessive temperatures
Good choice Harry. I do like the GivEnergy equipment and it has been flawless in the 13 months I’ve had it. 👍
Thanks for another down-to-earth explanation about Fredʻs home battery system. I have a Generac PWRcell system integrated into my PV system. Like you it checked off a few boxes that I considered important, like DC-DC charging of the battery so minimum losses, it can restart the system with no grid power connection, it was flexible as to the capacity I could initially install from 2.7kWh to 16.2kWh for one battery bay (newer systems are now 3kWh to 18kWh), two can be connected if needed. At the beginning of the video you talk about the position of the battery and its height off the floor, the only thing I would be concerned with if my property is built on or near a flood prone area, if so I would defiantly mount the battery higher off the ground just to protect it should the home get flooded.
I do have a Tesla Powerwall as I got mine in 2020 and it was the only option for the full house backup and using the solar if off grid. I worked out my swap to electric, EV, ASHP and solar PV is currently saving me £4,500 a year compared to no special tariff and an ICE car.
I am sure solar will follow soon for Harry and that he will start to become obsessed with it!
So how long will it take you to recover your costs. 10 -20 years. By then the system will be needed to be replaced. So no real savings short term and very little long term. It's an expensive toy just like my Tesla. I admit it. I'm not fooling myself that I am saving money or saving the planet.
@@keithdenton8386 If its saving £4500 a year and a powerwall is 8K fitted its not 20 years!
its saving £4500 because he bought solar panels, a battery an EV and a Heat pump. so approx what £50-60,000???@@scottwills4698
@@keithdenton8386 why will it need to be replaced in 10-20 years? The draw on a home battery is tiny compared to an EV. To be honest I feel it paid for itself on day 1. It reduced my bills and let me use my solar and be off grid except for EV charging during the summer.
@@keithdenton838610 years is fine - especially as (a) it adds some
Capital value to the house value and (b) optionality - you can exploit
Different tariffs more cleverly and probably bring the payback years in even more..
We have the AlphaESS solar and 5.4Kw battery pack, saves us an absolute fortune, paid for itself in 2 years, who knew electricity prices were going to quadruple ! In winter we use the Octopus cheap rate overnight to top up the car and battery which we then use first thing in the morning instead of full priced electricity, reduced our total energy costs from £250 to £150 virtually overnight
That's a £100 a month saving, 2 years is £2,400. Did that system cost £2,400?
We paid over £350 a month got it down to £150 plus now charge car at home saving over £550 a year plus feed in payments, looks like this year we will get down to £100 a month
@@stevenbarrett7648 ah I see you're triple counting your income but only reporting one of your investments
I would need to check but I don't think the AIo is supported installed higher up the wall. The rear bracket is to hold it against the wall, I am almost certain the installation asked for the unit to be sat on it's adjustable feet. Also that AIO has not been installed with the required install clearance. It shoule have 25cm free space either side of the battery, it looks mich closer than that to the rear wall.
I’ve got an east/west/south split array so needed optimisers with a dual string inverter if going GivEnergy hybrid approach - so opted for Enphase Microinverters instead. Combined with 9kWh being too small capacity, the AIO was the Goldilocks option for my scenario or I’d need multiple batteries.
I could have coped with an EPS circuit, but the full house backup is a nice peace of mind as I am a CPAP user due to sleep apnoea
Thanks guys wondering when we were seeing Harry's AIO install.
I was going with your setup of Hybrid inverter and 2 x 9kW batteries but went for the AIO instead at the same price.
I wanted the 6kW output (which it does give) and the EPS automated backup in powercut. Boil a kettle with the oven on and you are way over a Hybrid Inverter output.
It is brilliant but had many issues with it and hopefully getting it swapped tomorrow for a new one.
The support is good but very busy.
It took 6weeks and the 3rd set of batteries to get it working in the first place. Then it wiped out the batteries again and another 6weeks (Christmas has not helped obviously) to get another visit & swap.
So only had it working for 2Months out of 5; but when it does it is great.
Need more battery though and very very disappointed that there is no expansion on the horizon really. Marketing info says there will be but 6mths after placing the order still no idea when from Givenrgy. I did get solar too and when there is some solar it lasts the day, but no solar (as we have had, not far from you in Bingley) and it can run out. There must be some losses in getting the electricity back out of the AIO or it does not give 13.5kW. New software in teh replacement so we will see if that is better.
We had Pylontech batteries( 8.3 kw )fitted a year ago with a solis inverter.
The batteries charge between 12.30 am and 4.30 am at 9 p kwh.
Using octopus Go we are saving £1,000 per year on Electricity.
97 % of electricity we use is at the cheaper rate of 9 p.
We Also charge our car at 9p per kwh between 12.30 am and 4.30 am which saves £614 per year.
I have worked out it should pay for itself in 4 years.
We have no solar panels as for the cost of them it would take 15 years to recoup the cost.
When you are getting electricity a 9 p per kwh solar panels are not so attractive.
In hindsight we wish we had a slightly larger batteries of at least 10 kw .
You can easily add more Pylontech batteries - they're 48V modules.
The justification for solar is a bit different now with tariffs like Octopus intelligent. It used to be about using the solar yourself because it’s ‘free’. Now we charge the battery at 7.5 p / kWh even in Summer, use that to power the house during the day and sell all the solar at 15p / kWh. In Summer that’s regularly 50kWh per day which is £6! Having solar and batteries gives lots of flexibility but obviously the initial cost is higher.
The sell price per kwh has gone up a lot from when i last looked, i was looking at a system that produced 4,000 kw per year and was £6,000 using the 15 p sell back rate this would save £600 per year and would take 10 years not 15 years to payback .@@simonm9923
@@simonm9923what is your solar array in kWh I'm wondering?
@@martinclark9636 I assume you mean in kW? I have arrays on two sides of my roof, facing roughly east and west so not theoretically ideal. There is a total of 9kW ‘potential’ but my inverter is 6 kW so that is the most power I can produce. The advantage of east-west is a longer period of generation in Summer. Given the relatively low price of the panels themselves, I would recommend maximising what you can get, to get the most from the labour and scaffolding costs.
I have SolarEdge inverter for solar PV installed 10 years ago. Solar iBoost has paid for itself diverting excess solar to hot water. FoxESS battery stack of 12+kWh with additional 5kW inverter installed in May and Extended to 20+kWh in November.
With air source heat pump installed 2 years ago, office ASHP 1 yaar ago, and move to EV cbarging on 13A in April, we are still learning how much we consume!
Currently using 40kWh a day total in cold weather. Still less than £120pm on Octopus Go ...
Only wish is that I had one platform to manage the things! No regrets itherwise.
Thanks both of you for making this video. I'm very tempted to get a battery but like yourselves being a Yorkhireman and careful with the brass I need to see what the payback period is. Even with 2 electric cars, utilizing Octopus Go, I'm only spending about £120pm. I can't see solar being a financially viable option with no South facing roof but a battery alone may well be. I shall follow yours and Harry's battery story while at the same time hoping the prices come down. Keep up the good work.
No VAT from Feb ! that is 20% off a none Solar install
Who was your installer? Im in York so if you recommend im hoping they cover my area.
is powerwall still LiOn vs LFP of the Giv? that’d factor in for me especially if being used outdoors. Also the powerwall is a bit more automated - good if you want to be hands off but not so much if you want to get a bit hands on
Having seen many home solar and home battery systems over last few years I'd be tempted to go the victron route. Excellent app web interfacex regualr firmware updates, completely modular so of you need a silly sized mppt or Invertors they will have one, full off grid , and a company excellent reliability as they operate on boats in sea where if it breaks you could die, and a long history
Hello, great video. I’m considering a battery only installation myself. My question is what tarrif are you using if you only have a battery and no solar?
Sounds like he's on an Octopus tariff, given the figures he was quoting.
@@mcdon2401 yes I’m assuming it’s Octopus, but you are limited to certain tariffs if you have only a home battery and no solar or ev
I think the only thing that would make me mount the battery higher up would be potential flooding in the future. Would be nice to keep the battery up out the water.
Never flooded yet but you never know in the future.
Nice one guys. 👍
I’ve got the power wall as the battery needed to go in a side porch to the house which is classed as outside and it was actually cheaper than the available alternative at the time. Got a second one last month in prep for a heat pump. Only real annoyance is Tesla decides how much to charge the battery and I can’t control export. They’ve undercharged the battery when I had only one, despite a storm coming and knowing the solar wouldn’t be any use. If I could have more control then I wouldn’t be able to fault it.
It happens sometimes and can be beneficial for the battery if it deems you dont need it full. You can always up your backup percentage a bit to compensate for this.
Did you consider puredrive? That is what I have had proposed by my chosen installer and it seems to be a uk based lfp battery company.
My DIY LiFePO4 pack. At 60kWh right now, will be 100kWh in a couple of months.
That’s massive! I built my own 15kwh nut then bought a gobelpower basic rack unit to add another 14kwh.
What the hell are you running to need 60kwh?
@@egg399. I'm off-grid, so I need a couple of days/weeks of autonomy when there is no sun. I use very little electricity except when I have excess in summer. Then I run all my electric power tools (saw, wood splitter) to prepare wood for winter.
Next step will be an EV - I should be able to generate enough power to drive for free most of the year.
@@upnorthandpersonal Ah that makes sense. Are you at 48v or did you go higher? 4 banks of 16 x 304Ah lifepo4 cells?
@@egg399. 48V yes, easiest to find equipment for. I would go higher if I could. A mix of 304Ah and 280Ah cells, 5 banks (4 are 'good' the 5th is essentially made up of old test cells). I'll add two banks with 304Ah cells this Spring.
Thanks as always 👍
When you mention inverter is it the same thing as you get when you have solar panels?
So then if you already have solar you would just need the hybrid system like yourself? Or have i misunderstood? Cheers 👍
You need an inverter for the solar as well as the Gateway/AIO combo so you are not missing anything by already having the solar. The output of the Solar goes directly to the Gateway and gets distributed how you tell the Gateway to handle it.
There new EV charger also plugs directly into the Gateway if you needed one.
Idd love to know a rough price and who you used as the installer *being based quite close in Brighouse
I live near Clitheroe and thinking the same!
I went for giv 9.5. I was tempted by the AIO but my installer had installed a few and a had a lot of teething problems and didn’t recommend it. I’ve seen a few posts on groups that backed up the issues mentioned. I’m sure loads are fine. But actually my 9.5 has been enough, even with a heatpump. I’m always in 7.5p leccy.
They were new, I believe the issues have been sorted now.
double height garage is a bit fancy :)
What about Enphase IQ series, any thoughts? GiveEnergy is not available where I live.
Thanks for the video a cost of purchase and link to the installer would be great, it’s difficult to decide which option to go for, it is possible to buy 10 545watt solar panels ( brand new) (so 5450watts solar) for £900 and a 13.5kw battery for around £3500 the battery installation is a mornings work according to this video and the panels 2 days plus scaffolding, so the installers look on paper to be extremely greedy unless I am missing something? 5450 watt Solar with 13.5kw battery is over £10000 installed and some charging £15000.
it’s easier to buy the mobile batteries like ecoflow or dabbsson and then can take them with you as a Jerry can for the ev and take them with you if you move house , i really want the battery installation and solar but there seems to be no installers fitting for sensible prices I am happy to pay £500 a day for Labour but not £2000 8 years pay back time is crazy when I can buy and fit myself and pay back is 2 years I am just not MCS registered electrician so mobile batteries are only sensible option for now.
I would like to know charging and discharge efficiency. ie its 13.5 kw,how how many kw did it take to charge? and once stored as dc how many kw do get back. These loss efficiency issues could be your next white board of truth exercise . I have seen figures of 6% charging inefficiency and the same for discharge , any idea how accurate these are? All needs to be considered in planning for a home battery. Do you think home battery first before solar?
I've had an AIO for approx 16 weeks and I check its in/out efficiency at the end of each week out of curiously. My real-world experience it that it is 92% efficient. 15.9kWh In every night, and 14.7kWh out, every day. (Mine was upgraded in capacity from 13.5 to 16 via a firmware update) Love it!
It's definitely worth oversizing the solar panels IMO. Panels are so cheap that a couple of extra panels more than covers the losses, while also increasing the output in the lower producing months.
An excess of production seems like a waste of time and money, but the inverter just throttles back the panels until the need increases.
My batteries are regularly at 100% by 1pm, then the lunchtime draw will kick in and possibly drain them, depending on the solar availability, then the system just tops itself up for the afternoon and I hope to have about 60-70 % of my 20kw left by the time the sun goes down.
@@paddybyrne848 Oooooo that extra capacity would be flipping handy.
Question is EVM, would you switch from the hybrid system to Harry’s if you now had the choice or are you still happy with the hybrid ?
Hi I had a Give Energy installed in July 2022 I think the battery size is 2 x 9 kWh packs and I’m on the Octopus Intelligent Go so they charge every night 11.30pm until 5.30am. I chose 18 KWh size because we heat the house using a heat pump and in the winter it would soon empty a single 9 kWh battery hence I went for 2. Summer is fine as I can then use the battery to charge the car even in the day. I think it's been really money saving.
My only wish is that i could charge and discharge at a higher rate than 3 kWh( like Harry can discharge at 6 kWh. can you also charge at 6 kWh? If so that would be excellent!
My current charge is 3 kWh x 6 hours so i can fill my batteries to 100% every night.
Thanks for another excellent video lads.
Yes it charges at 6kW too. But with 6hrs of cheap electricity it is not needed. I throttle mine back to 3kW.
@@ians3328how would I adjust mine to charge or discharge at more than 3 kw? Your help would be appreciated. Thanks
@@oldevertonianwithloadsofpa6325 I have an All In One specifically because the Hybrid inverters do not push enough out. The AIO does 6kW in and out
So basically you’re telling me that the system I had fitted in 2022 cannot do more than 3kw during charge and discharge? Obviously I’m not going to change anything now.
It’s definitely a rapidly evolving market. Surprised you quickly narrowed it down to 3 brands. There’s loads of others on the market, all with similar functionality. Victron & Sunsynk come to mind, tho only Victron can do whole house backup like the powerwall & givenergy.
Sunsynk can do whole house back up, it's a little more complicated to install as it has a lower pass through, however it can be done
I was more inclined to the MyEnergi system, mainly for the Zappi but I'm more seriously thinking about changing my plans to the GivEngery system. How's the Giv EV charge point working with solar?
It’s not sunny enough.
And tbh, you’re better off right now exporting than diverting into a car etc.
@@ElectricVehicleMan under ideal circumstances I agree, but I don't own the panels so can't get the export anyway. Rent a roof scheme the previous owner took out.
Home assistant + GivTCP = custom configurable notifications, no need to open the app. I have mine setup to send a silent persistent notification every 5% change in SOC including the local grid g/CO2 at that time 🤓
Might be worth talking about dc coupled like your hybrid compared to ac coupled like all in one. As soon as they have the software update to use multiple of these to increase capacity I will be ripping my puredrives/solis system out for multiple all in ones.
All in one units are limited to the capacity of your grid connection, if you want more DC power from PV then you have to look at victron where you can add mppt separately but it's expensive kit.
I’ve been looking at the FranklinWH. Quite expensive, but I have solar panels and a wind turbine, the FranklinWH has a generator facility which may allow both generation technologies to be installed.
Can connect wind and solar to most.
Is that on the DC side?
@@WindyJAMiller Any DC source afaik.
Even has a wind turbine on their portal as a graphic.
Did you or Harry look at the Fox ESS All-In-One? It appears to be about 40% cheaper than the Givenergy AIO so a price difference I cannot ignore. The battery is slightly smaller for that, and the app not as good, and it’s a Chinese brand. But for that saving it’s a serious contender. Plus Fox AIO has a hybrid inverter for less DC/AC conversions unlike the Givenergy.
Yes, zero vat should make a big difference.
I shoved my system all in my garage , 8 x 415w panels on the garage roof , 3.6kw hybrid inverter & ~ 7kwh of LFP (Lithium Iron Phosphate) the whole lot cost me about ~£ 3500 includingfixings etc . Had this setup for about 2 1/2 years and I reckon it’s pretty much paid for itself . I’ve noticed that the panels have come down in price loads , I paid ~£ 200 per panel in 2021 and now they’re ~ £130 in 2024 . The LFP batteries have actually gone up a little for the fogstar ones I bought anyway . Inverters have probably dropped in price about 30% . So the same setup today would cost ~ £2800 or somewhere around that .
How do you find the Frogstar batteries as I was considering buying there new 15.5kw battery.
@@AdrianMcDaid they are excellent, 10 year warranty too
@antoniopalmero4063 Did you self install? If not, how difficult was it to find an installer?
@@johnmckay1423 I did self install , fortunately my son is an electrician although very helpful it’s not necessary. He helped more in fitting the panels to the garage roof and wiring up the inverter . It’s an off grid setup but it is connected in the consumer unit and runs most of the house with the exception of the hot water heater and electric shower at the moment .
I will probably upgrade my inverter at some stage from 3.6kw to about 5.5kw . I have too much power in the summer with the 8 x 415w panels but it is beneficial in the winter months to be over paneled .i do have an electric car now so when the batteries are full and there is nowhere to store the energy from the panels I just dump it into the car . If I was to fit a system today I would start with a decent high output inverter 5kw+ and a couple of panels and maybe 2 kwh of battery storage , you can easily add more panels and batteries whenever you like. .
Great video. Informative without being dry
Not sure you'd find many installers prepared to install the AIO in a loft - it weighs 174kg!
My 9.5kWh Gen 2 battery weights 110kg & my installer was overjoyed when I changed the install location from the loft to my garage. I'm currently getting quotes for an addition Givenergy 9.5kWh Gen 2 battery for my system & 5 extra panels. My installer has already told me that the prices would be cheaper than the quotes & got before Christmas.
Did you not watch the part where we explained the modular install?
We need two things to jumpstart the renewable energy distribution. First, batteries need to come way, way down in price. I just priced batteries here in the US, still $1,100 per kilowatt hour. Next, we need a way for working homeowners to finance solar, batteries and EVs.
Funny that as retail in the UK is under £300 per kWh
With a zero VAT rating from next week, batteries are becoming even more attractive.
Positive move but the attractive price of Oct tracker is really hurting the ROI on batteries.
I doubt it will affect it much. They are still far too expensive. You can get gobelpower 48v rack mount for under 1800 delivered duty paid to Uk. Ok it’s not tYpe rated for grid connection but it’s easier to be off grid.
Great move but I bet the prices will “rise” to swallow that vat reduction. Any reduction should be paid back to the purchase from the government directly so we can see where the suppliers are taking the reduction.
No mention of SolarEdge product?
Everything except what we needed to know, the price?
I had Giv and changed to 2x Powerwalls a month ago. The PW's work better in pairs and I have 10kW charge/discharge.. the AIO states "coming soon" Also the little bits of grid usage in the day the Giv would still use around 200 - 500Wh a day and the PW is 0Wh. Also you can max export and force charge the battery on demand. Don't get me wrong the AIO is good however after having both.. the PW's have out performed the AIO for us.
The Powerwall has grid usage as well, its inertia that all batteries have.
They just don’t display it.
@@ElectricVehicleMan My octopus bill doesn’t show it either so that’s all that counts. I have days that are 0.00kWh on my bill 👍
Did you install the battery, gateway etc yourself? That would not pass inspection where I live.
Not at all. Approved installers only.
How long will it take to pay for itself
A quick recap on the difference between hybrid inverter and AIO would be handy for the confused like me. 😁
AIO has a built in inverter.
Mine are separates (like old school hi fi).
I have a hybrid inverter that is for my battery and the solar panels.
AIO is AC coupled so requires a separate inverter for any solar added.
Its not really that simple and I think thats where people get confused. Most people think of the inverter as the bit that converts solar to 240v, your Hybrid Inverter does that as well as connecting to the battery. The AIO Inverter is the other way, it has an inverted in the battery that converts DC to 240. It does not include the solar inverter.@@ElectricVehicleMan
@@JurassicJungle that’s literally what I’ve just wrote.
Did the installer fit an earth rod in the three hours? (If the PEN is severed in a power cut without one the house has no earth)
What are the safety protocols with regard to individual cells going bad and thermal runaway? this area is of concern to me. are they individually monitored for internal resistance, does balance charging work at individual level? does anyone know?
Giv are lifepo batteries. Inert essentially.
You could pierce one and it wouldn’t have thermal runaway.
@@ElectricVehicleMan Was asking about individual cell charging management not mechanical damage, found this from a solar site "If a LiFePO4 battery is charged beyond its maximum capacity (Ah), it can lead to overcharge. This can cause the battery to become unstable and potentially catch fire." I suspect they are monitored as a bank and not individually would be happy to hear otherwise though.
@@Ifitwerks Not sure, but they’re managed and all safety stuff in place. A car, washing machines, tumble dryer, toaster etc will be statistically more dangerous.
Or just put it outside.
@@ElectricVehicleMan OK, I need to look further before I consider this, can you point me to those statistics on comparable safety, cheers
@@Ifitwerks nothing directly done comparing the those with batteries but I’ve yet to hear of anyone here having a thermal event with a home battery. (Giv certainly).
Stats for the appliances are on fire service sites. Tumble dryer is the worst it seems.
I built a Seplos Mason 280L with 16 x 280ah Car grade cells to give me 14.2kwh of capacity for a fraction of the cost @ £2400 upto 200A discharge rate.
Looking to do exactly this. Battery and gateway for charging on cheap rate, running the house on the battery and having power when we get power cuts. No solar here due to the shape and orientation of the roof.
The zero rate VAT change puts me a step closer. 👍
The big thing I overlooked in getting solar without battery was the minimum charging current of the cars. What's the minimum for the battery?
Don’t think there is one.
There's no minimum but you have to adjust to suit, not all kit gives you access to control the charge rate.
What can you do with the excess energy dumped to the grid?
What do you mean?
@@ElectricVehicleMan I have the AIO and 8kW sola panels, when the car is full and the battery is full, there is only so much cooking you can do, rahther tahn dump to the grid is there anything you can do with the excess energy on a sunny day?
@@Piccyman1 Export it. Get paid.
Love to see some figures on return on investment. My house wouldn't work for Solar but battery could reduce my electricity costs & help protect the grid.
Only true about a smart meter if they would fit one!
You have to talk to Tesla to enable export…
Anything that requires a connection to the internet for authorisation makes me uneasy. It needs to stand alone, in case supplier goes under. It's not a door bell which i can cheaply replace
This can be done through something like home assistant.
So local control is an option but using the Giv app currently requires an internet connection at login.
@@ElectricVehicleMan running home assistant on a pi?
@@neilm9400 On anything.
I’ve had MASSIVE issues trying to get a home battery. I’ve contacted multiple companies and been driven to dead end after dead end. One company spent 1 year constantly saying that they’re waiting for the battery to come into stock. Another company took my deposit and then disappeared. I paid on credit card so I got it back but it’s just been so frustrating. I’ve given up now
Certainly no stock issues with these.
I think your issue is more with poor installer than anything battery related.
@@ElectricVehicleMan I agree. I think there’s a few rouges out there to be honest
Givenergy has a list of approved installers on their website, maybe try there.
Would have been good to explain what "hybrid inverter" meant. I will look it up but it would have been good for context in this video.
Inverter charger all in one unit that connects to the grid to export and pulls power from the grid to charge and can also pull power from solar PV directly to export or charge the battery. These units can also do backup power supply and some even take a generator input.
The Smart meter displays are so unreliable, that is why people are not using them. If the SM is as bad as the display then we are all stuffed
I have a Powerwall 2, I still think its the best overall. The Ai is better than Givenergy, it won't put solar into the battery unless im going to need it (I sell at 15p buy at 7.5p) I believe the Givenergy battery will always fill the battery before exporting. The Powerwall 2 and AIO are the same price.
Giv battery will do anything you like.
Export solar, charge battery, charge car if you have the charger, divert solar to both at the same time.
Or tell it to fully discharge to the grid for certain sessions, which Tesla won’t let you do.
Factor in the greater warranty and local control and that’s the better package IMO.
How much is a Powerwall installed?
Too much! 😂 Uk based is best for Uk support for sure. Would love a vid of a smaller model
@@ElectricVehicleManto be fair, Tesla can / will enable the ability to export to the grid. You just need to contact their support centre and confirm your DNO export limit.
@@simonm9923 Why would you even need to ask? Why not just let people use their own battery?
Forgot the Givback DFS scheme too.
@@ElectricVehicleMan in my case I got the powerwall in 2020 and the tariffs at the time prioritised banking your solar in the battery with some cheap rate overnight charging - export tariffs weren’t really worth anything. As we all know the latest tariffs turn that on its head so Tesla now offer it, I don’t know if it’s maybe standard on units being installed now? I wasn’t advocating Tesla or criticising GE, just clarifying that the functionality is there. I think that going forward system flexibility and the ability to adapt use to take advantage of new tariffs etc. is the key.
I've got 2 8.2 givenergy battery and they've been faultless for 2 years
One thing to look at is the ability to not use the battery during cheap rate, and is it possible to have the battery fully topped up by the time you hit the dearer rate.
Yep it does that. Fill battery over night and then at 5:30am to 11:30pm use the battery
@@ians3328 no kidding, how?
@@Piccyman1 set import as between 11:30pm and 5:30am - then also set discharge between 5:30am and 11:30pm. Battery supplies the house until it runs out
@ians3328 I did that and it dumped the whole lot to the grid, I assumed it was a bug in the software.
Hope you can dig in to the financials of Harry’s system. Even applying advanced Man Maths I can’t get the payback period to justify the expense and get approval from the Finance Director (the missus).
@4:14 you'd think that it would decrease install costs but the GivEnergy kit is so fiddly to commission. Unless you have a 2.4Ghz wifi signal directly on top of the gateway and battery location they are extremely difficult to get connected to your network. LAN doesn't even work properly. Installers can easily spend half a day or more just trying to get the kit commissioned. Some go easily enough, like this one seems to have done, but others are a total nightmare. Most contemporary products from other manufacturers have much better connectivity. I've lost count of the number of jobs where we've had to install wifi extenders to get the GivEnergy kit working.
LAN always works (assuming the cable is correctly made).
And assuming dip switches have been changed.
@@ElectricVehicleMan nope, the router has to be compatible and you have to open ports. It does not universally work for the GivEnergy kit.
@@joseywales3848 You don’t have to open ports at all.
There’s no compatibility either for a physical connection.
LAN is LAN.
@@ElectricVehicleMan yep you do, read the manual
@@joseywales3848 That is not true. Believe me.
Could someone comment on the following (I don't have solar or battery yet): I don't like the idea of the provider selling me an ongoing service which I depend on as, I don't want them knowing my usage, they might go bankrupt, I just don't like the idea of a system with unnecessary dependencies and also they might decide to start charging or up their prices. Other ways of working that I could imagine are: when home, the phone app and battery (or system) communicate directly through the local network or when outside, I allow the mobile app through the router with port forwarding. I'd be interested to hear about technologies and experiences surrounding these ideas.?
It can work locally.
The thing that seems to be missing in this discussion is high vs low voltage battery systems. Our battery can discharge at 10kW, which makes it capable of supporting whatever behaviour. That is invaluable to my marriage.
Snap; "you can have it but I am not changing anything I do concept !" but 6kW is ok and worst case it just pulls some from the mains.
Why do you think the voltage of the battery changes the options? Plenty of kit out there is 48 volt and rated over 10kW
Washing machine and batteries side too side ??
What about it?
@@ElectricVehicleMan Just joking I know these batteries are sealed and at least have a IP54 for outdoor use. But still water and electricity feels wrong.
Surprised SolarEdge didn't make the list, it has emergency power capability, more flexibility in inverter size, full ecosystem etc.
Edit - ignore my comments as I confused brands. Mine is PureDrive, who also claim emergency power but actually require an additional circuit
@@dapprman I'm not sure of your set up or where you are based (assuming UK), so not sure what SolarEdge make available in your market. I live in Australia and have a hybrid inverter from SolarEdge which is DC coupled to their battery. There is then a Back Up Interface (similar to the gateway that was being talked about in this video) which is a box next to the circuit board and controls the switching over when the power goes out, so my home runs off the same circuit, just continues to get the power from the solar and battery. In other words, pretty much the same as the GivEnergy system set up.
SolarEdge didn't reply to any of my queries. Do they even have reps in UK? My solar inverter is SolarEdge 3.6kW, so would have liked a single platform. Never mind. Got FoxESS batteries now.
@@downwind_david realised I'd confused firms
@@dapprman Easy to do, especially when so many put the word 'solar' in their name - there's Solar Force, Solargain and Future Solar who are all installers in Perth (Western Australia NOT Scotland), and Solar Force install SolarEdge equipment! 😁
Do you have battery envy?
Not many folks covet high levels of discharge!
I think you should have been more up front in saying you actually work for giv energy.
This was 6 months before I even got the offer!
Look at the date.
How much did it cost in total. How long will it take to get back what you spent? My fuel bill for my house is 118 per month If battery allowed me to reduce it to nothing. 10 years would save around 15,000. That's not going to happen, so lets say I reduced my costs by half, 20 years would save me £15,000 To me it's just an expensive toy that you will never get your money back on. Yes my Tesla saves money. but in the long run taking the cost of the car, I will never save money in fuel. the car cost, even if I keep it for 10 years. Anyone who thinks differently is deluded.
Where on earth are you getting £15k from?
I have a 5.5kW solar PV and a Tesla Powerwall, installed cost in 2021 was £12750 + 5% vat. So far I've saved £3600 in electricity costs and exported 7600 units back into the grid, at say, an average of 15p/unit = £1137. Total return on my £12750 investment is £4737 in 3 years. My ROI is currently 8 years, but who knows what energy prices will be over the next 5 years. That is irellavent as the real benifit is future proofing against idiots like Putin or (heaven forbid) Trump.
In my view installing solar without a battery storage system is as pointless as a bucket with holes in. A battery on it's own has some uses, but only really has a beneifit when you can feed it with solar generated electricity.
In fact, as I moved house during the pandemeic the government paid all of my solar/battery investment, as I didn't pay stamp duty on my new house, but that is just individual good fortune.
@@keiththompson8289 These are going for £6k ish. And with a time of day tariff the battery saves more than solar as it’s every day of the year.
@@ElectricVehicleMan What was the installation cost?