What's Efficient For An Electric Car? (m/kWh & Wh) - MPG Equivalent-ish
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 พ.ย. 2020
- We all know that something that does 20mpg isn't efficient, but what's the equivalent in Electric Car terms? Is 300Wh good or bad? Is 5mpkWh efficient?
Link to the tool: www.smarthomecharge.co.uk/gui...
Merch: www.lovelymerch.com/evm/
Tesla Referral: ts.la/andrew31112 - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Link for the comparison tool: www.smarthomecharge.co.uk/guides/energy-tariffs-how-to-keep-ev-charging-costs-low
Thanks, that's a genuinely useful site. I've been on EDF GoElectric since Jan. It's not the cheapest, but works well for my charging needs - IPace, regular long weekend trips, useless scheduled charge setup in app or car.
@@PaulSouthport thanks Paul, glad it is useful. Hopefully it gives people a rough idea anyway :)
- Editor at Smart Home Charge
Thanks Andy. That's an excellent resource.
The fuel consumption figures were nicely explained by you for non-technical people. Kilowatt-hours per kilometre are the way to go, as in 25kWh/100 km. We've been using SI for over 50 years; longer than most people here have lived.
Hi EVM, this must be one of the most useful EV-related videos on TH-cam - VERY WELL DONE !!!!!!!
Thanks for an interesting video.
My BMW i3 has averaged 4.3mi/kWh over the 13,427 miles since we bought it. That's a total of 3,123 kWh used. As we only ever charge it overnight at the off peak rate of 2.6p per unit, that means our total 'fuel' cost has totalled £81.19. I therefore estimate, in fuel, we've saved around £2,012 when compared against our previous diesel car.
I'm thinking of getting one of these. They seem like a perfect solution with the Rex I feel comfortable knowing someone can fetch a can of gas for me if I ever get stranded.
Great video, thank you!!! I think the “Average” number’s you chose(red, yellow, green)are fair enough across the spectrum of EV’ world. I’ve owned my 2023 Model 3 RWD for about a year now. I also get 4 season’s here in the USofA where I live(Wisconsin, right by Canadian border). When I 1st brought my Tesla around my family, my Dad was really skeptical and within the first Month of owning it, he really wanted to figure out what I was getting to the mile and or how to convert the cost from gas to electric/milage. He was off a bit, lol, but after I showed him this video, he then understood, as did I, with your awesome simplistic breakdown(Wh/mi or mi/Kwh). Had fun really testing my Tesla this year in the winter element’s, driving a couple 100+mi road trip’s in -25F, couple ft of snow/snow storms, rain, etc…! To be honest, in June of 2023 when I made the leap to a Tesla, I thought to myself, winter is gonna make me or break me on sticking with an EV(Tesla). Nonetheless, it definitely exceeded my expectation’s! Anyway, I have 15K on it already, and it’s sitting at 223 wh/mi. Like you so easily taught the math 1000/223=4.48 mi/Kwh and I can happily say, my family and I are really enjoying the EV lifestyle. Although my Dad still won’t drive it, at least he’s let me take him for a drive once😂 and everytime I leave his place, he’s always intently watching and I know he marvels at the ingenuity of the future. He’s definitely coming around. SSL, again, Thanks for a great mathematical breakdown that I now always use to help skeptic’s and or people understand how much more I save($$$)making the leap that I did! Cheers!👍
I think Miles/kWh is the best way to market EVs to new people. The battery sizes are all published openly, so saying to someone a car has a 30kWh battery and does 3 miles per kWh is easy to explain how that works.
I've been driving a second hand LEAF for over a year and a half now and this is the easiest and most straightforward explanation of kWh/m or vise versa I've heard to date. Simples, thanks mate. 👍 BTW link clicked, very useful.
Excellent explanation- clear, concise & funny. Thank you.
Thanks Andy. You must do this for a living, if not you should do. Excellent.
Thanks so much for the video. Trying to decide what to buy and how much range and so forth. You video is so helpful!
Good timing on this video really! Since a lot of the new electric cars offered recently have terrible miles per KWH. I was waiting for all these 50KWh cars to come out only to find this out.
I liked how you tried to hide your figures on the left of the board but kept looking at them. Joking apart, another interesting video that explained something new to me
Great video thanks keep up the great work.
Great information as ever thank you.
One UK gallon of petrol releases 40.47kWh of energy when burned, but engines are so inefficient they can't use it all, that's why cars reject so much heat out the tailpipe and radiator.
So your "standard" petrol car that gets 50mpg is really getting 50/40.47 = 1.235 miles/kWh, or 809Wh/mile.
Fully Charged did a good visual example video about this while back. They had an electric lawn mover with batteries the size of a big soda bottle that would run for few hours and they actually needed a bigger lawn to really test how much work you can do on one charge. And then there was the gasoline powered mover, with equal amount of energy in the tank as was contained in the battery, meaning it had about a teacup of gasoline. The ICE mover managed just a few trips across the lawn before it ran dry.
Figures for volumetric KWh for petrol and diesel do seem to vary a bit, and your figures are actually the most generous I have seen. According to DEFRA / DECC Digest of Energy Statistics 2011 (Fuel Conversion Factors - Gov.ukwww.gov.uk › 7309-cca-draft-technical-guidance-app-b) the figures are 9.6KWh/l or 43.64KWh/gal for petrol and 10.9KWh/l or 49.6KWh/gal for diesel. That's imperial gallons of corse. To contrast the difference, a Tesla M3P rated at 309miles range on its 75KWh battery would travel 204 miles on the energy from 1 gal of diesel.
And yes, that's 204mpg based on energy.
And things can look even better in terms of cost as that gallon of diesel would cost £5.33 (uk average) compared to £2.48 (Octopus GO). Average diesel cost comes from www.confused.com/on-the-road/petrol-prices, Octopus GO EV rate is 5p/KWh - NOT the cheapest domestic tariff in the UK. Street chargers are typically more expensive although there are many AC level 2 chargers that are free.
@@malccartledge9771 I went off the EPA conversion and swapped the gallons. I may have made an error.
@@MrGonzonator I hadn't assumed and didn't mean to imply you had made any error, the available figures do vary, as most likely does the fuel itself depending on where in the world you buy it.
@@malccartledge9771 also, in terms of pure well to wheel efficiency, the EPA's 33.7kWh / US Gallon is the pure calorific content of the fuel only, they have to add in correction factors to account for the losses in extraction, refining and transportation. However, this is similar to the electric generation, transmission, conversion losses, which will also vary.
Another very informative and useful video. My wife and I have decided our next car will be an EV and your videos are really big help. Great work 👍🏾
I always get lost with Electric figures, vaguely understand why there has to be Watts, Hz, Amps, Volts.... I think 🤔 everything else just has litres or Kg or one measure reading. But I know my journey to work and back was 1 gallon each day in my Petrol car, 1/2 gallon each day in my Diesel car now I have my EV using lights and heater I use 80p of electric from my Home Charger at EV overnight Tariff rates.... Stunning stuff....also the car is warm and defrosted already 😊
Thanks for the info. Greetings from the Netherlands.
Great video, thanks!
I’m not an EV owner (yet), but I’m more familiar with kWh/100km. Seems to help me understand better just how (in)efficient an EV is.
I was surprised he didn't mention this, as the associated ICE equivalent (liters per 100km) is commonly used in Europe, Canada, and many other countries. Many EVs sold in Europe display their efficiency in kWh/100km.
You can convert Wh/km to kWh/100km by dividing by 10. For example, these are the same:
185 Wh/km
18.5 kWh/100km
I'm personally not a fan of units like kWh/100km that have numbers in them. But I completely understand why they're more intuitive, as electricity is sold in kWh.
@@pepstein I can't understand why they show the consumption per 100 km rather than the more simpler 1 km. 100 km just seems like an arbitrary number without any particular meaning.
As for showing the consumption, kWh/100 km is way more logical than the other way around.
@@yourcrazybear because you get nice, easy to handle numbers this way, that are actually useful. Most people in Europe think of distances (worth driving) in tens or hundreds of kilometers and buy the petrol in liters. My ICE needs 5 liters of Diesel/100km, 0.05 liters or 5 cl per km just does not have the same ring to it. Same rationale holds true for my EV and kWh. And the numeric value in kWh is just a factor of three away from the old way of thinking (some 15kWh/100km)
And: there is the benefit that a relation to 100 km distance does intrinsically imply an appropriate average value.
@@pepstein In the United States, they use this crazy thing called "MPGe", (Miles Per Gallon equivalent) and to me, it's nonsense. That figure came along with cars like the Chevy Volt, which are "plug in hybrid". I prefer miles per kWh, just so you can use the same arithmetic as miles per gallon, or kilometers per liter. It's just what I'm used to, so it seems more intuitive to me. When I go through car shows, I have to keep the calculator app in my phone open, to convert watts per 100 miles (or watts per 100 kilometers) into something that makes sense to me.
@@pepstein It's obviously easier for those used to litres/100km to switch to kWh/100km, but it's a slightly weird unit - it has the k prefix in both the numerator and denominator - so it should immediately cancel down to Wh / 100m.
Honestly, your videos have been so helpful, so much so that I have ordered my EV and the dealer was impressed about how much research I actually did
Hi, I’m an x mechanic with ms, I got a Tesla mod 3 and it was the best thing I’ve ever bought, driving at 80 mph again after doing 50 mph for years 😮😊
Good video, thanks. When asked by a non-ev owner about what is an effecient EV I just tell them to look up the miles/kWh and multiply by 10 for an mpg equivalent. I know this is scientifically rubbish but people can relate to an E-Tron doing a measly 28 mpg (2.8 m/kWh) and my Ioniq doing a respectable 58 mpg (5.8 m/kWh).
X20 would probably be more accurate but yes that's a good idea
Thank you - that was helpful.
Good explanation, well presented - it should help a lot of people working out efficiencies. I think that the next step - the "how much would it actually cost me per mile" is the thing that'll persuade drivers to make the transition. So if they're on a regular tariff of say 15pkWh domestic they could probably work out what that would be pence per mile but they might not be aware that they could get close to 1p per mile on something like Octopus Go (which I use). Money in the back pocket is the key yardstick. (Great channel btw, keep it up!)
*cries in 2022*
I must admit I found the 3.4, miles per kWh reading that I get on the eNV200 easy to understand and most like the old mpg. What I do find harder to work out in my head is the time I need to charge to a given range. The charge current is usually known, I get 6.5 kW through the cable I have plugged into the house, that gets me about 22 miles per hour. However, I don't do much mileage generally so I usually charge to 60%. The tricky bit, when it is dark and wet, is calculating how long I need to go from, say, 30% to 60% without going back to see what the timer says. The best ball park figure I've got is 10% every 2 hours, but it would probably be better to find out how to set the thing to turn off at 60%. I'll just have to go and read the manual again.
My LEAF had averaged 4.2 m/Kwh over 30K miles. Since a service in April it has upped to 4.4m/Kwh. The Nissan EV website also provides the Watts/Mile figure. All of course dependent on the right foot .
I am never in a hurry, and use adaptive cruise control much of the time.
Great video very well explained for anyone trying to understand. I prefer miles/kWh.
Feel bad for km driving countries, it's either Wh/km or kWh/100km (which is the same thing just scaled up by 100) there's no company that does km/kWh
That’s very informative ,I need to know that
Great video again
For me, I consider 4 miles per kWh a standard. I won't look at anything that can't achieve that. Amazingly enough, some of the most expensive EV's seem to be way below that, and cheap commuter cars, like Chevy Volt, and Nissan Leaf seem to be among the most efficient, rivaled only by Tesla. BMW I 3 and other expensive cars seem to be in the ~2.5-2.8 MPkWh. range.
I agree, I'm used to buying fuel based on distance per quantity, so I think EV manufacturers should use the same metric.
Thanks EVM and Alexa.
EVM - I've had a detailed look at the Smart Home Charge website, which was interesting, and let them know of an omission on their site - they don't really feature the Ohme intelligent cable, mainly mentioning the wall box. For those EV owners who already own a wall charger, this cable is a way to get the benefit of Ohme setting up charging at the cheapest time (on Octopus Agile) without having to get the Ohme wall box - and there is a 50% discount on the cable for Octopus customers at the moment.
Perhaps you should have pointed out why 1000 ? It’s because there’s 1000 watts in 1 kWh.
Or rather 1000W=1kW
Or 1000Wh in 1kWh
Kinell
Although (kWh)and (watts/kilowatts) are 2 different units. kWh is an actual amount of electricity.
A kw is the rate of electricity.
So 10kWh used over 15mins
Would mean a rate of 40kw has been used.
i personally prefer wh/mile because it makes it easier to calculate how many watts you use for certain amount of distance.
Surely it works just as easily either way around? I find it easier to work out costs with mi/kWh as kWh is what our electricity is priced in ie. for my 1kWh costing 5p I can go 3.5 miles enthusiastically, or 5 miles economically. Working out range for your usable batter size seems easier with mi/kWh, a 50kWh battery in a car that will do 4 mi/kWh will go 200 miles.
I heard one EV enthusiast compares different EVs by how much it costs him to drive 1 mile. In this case Wh/miles style is favoured. He used fancy numbers such as "oh it's just 10p for me, but if I mix with sustainable energy sourced, it can be as low as 1p per mile of my journey" :)
That's why I prefer wh/mile too. MPG isn't particularly useful and I believe European countries use L/100KM which seems much more sensible
Thank you for explaining this. My 2017 averages 4.3kwh. So I am happy my leaf is pretty efficient even with 2 bars gone.
Hey, that's interesting...
My 2017 30kWh Leaf has been showing 4.7 m/kWh over the summer and has now dropped to 4.5 m/kWh with the cold weather setting in - 11 bars on the screen and pretty well 50:50 motorways vs urban journeys.
Yay, someone talking about efficiency and not just range, awesome!!
Range might be interesting when you know little about EV's and you are about to buy your first one but efficiency is so much more important becaus it decides what uit actually cost you to drive your EV to work! Changing from a gasoline car to an EV has reduced my daily driving cost to about 25%, which is possible when you have your own charger at home.
BTW my Hyundai Ioniq 28 kWh did easily 9+ km/kWh in the summer, I don't think any EV has bettered that 8 year old car yet. When they get the Aptera done I will buy one, it does 16 km/kWh 😲
I suppose everyone with solar panels will know their drawdown from the grid, in my case it’s about 10% of total. I’m new to ev’s and I was really pleased to find a 12.5p/ unit supplier with a hefty 30p daily charge based on false assumptions. Thanks for pointing out this comparison tool, I’ll certainly use it when I come up for renewal.
Many thanks buddy.
No problem 👍
I use Wh/km as having watched Bjorn for so long prefer that plus luckily my Ioniq I can show that, well technically kWh/100km but simple to convert with a single decimal point.
I changed my Corsa-e from miles/kWh to kWh/100km which worked on the nice graph... until I noticed the speedometer has also changed to kph 🤣 not so useful in the uk
@@mattc7014 isn't it about time you considered driving on the correct side of the road as the rest of us too
@@williamgoode9114 I happily drive on either side. Also the kilometer is far superior 1 mile = 5280 feet... ridiculous! 😁 I might have trouble persuading a lot of the rest of my country though! 🙄
@@mattc7014 in some countries with a united government system basically of retired engineers and a progressive trade policy, and educated people with a work ethic instead of recreational drugs and guns its easier to explain commonsense, but if they divide north and south, bark back to the second world war and further, worship a queen and have no industry or modern curriculum its harder, ironic when modern science based France with high speed trains, nuclear energy, driving on the right side, car industry, even electric car industry to some extent ! Is only 22 miles away its dissapointing guy Fawkes didn't succeed, because your sense if humour and inventiveness is great its just an inability to change or learn that's holding you back from modernising your units, England just can't Change, because you Romantise the Tudors, Victorians,Edwardians and still use slide rules.
@@mattc7014 Where outside of shipping is gallons per feet relevant? You might as well use Grandpa Simpson units.
I had a guess what numbers you'd pick for miles/kWh - turns out I picked the exact same numbers you did - so for what it's worth there's a data point in support of your assessment :)
On Wh/mile - I noticed a lot of Europeans talk about litres per 100km. Not quite as simple to convert that into miles/gallon :)
Excellent !!!
I find miles/kWh easier for me. Great to see the star of the show back again - the whiteboard!
I never ever think or worry about i.
Why if I may ask? Is it because you are used to it?
For completeness (and also for more math) this is the conversion of ICE to kWh/mile
30 mpg = 0.68 m/kWh = 1470.6 W/mile
50 mpg = 1.13 m/kWh = 885.0 W/mile
70 mpg = 1.58 m/kWh = 633.0 W/mile
Though I can see why EVM didn't include it
Gallons are not a measure of energy though, they are a measure of volume. So a problem with comparisons like this is that batteries have different energy densities. So a gallon of gasoline will never contain more energy than it does today, and never take up less space or weigh less. But as battery technology improves, a kWh will take up less space and weigh less, creating cost and efficiency gains that are invisible in a comparison that ignores volume. More energy dense batteries should also charge faster which will impact travel time on long trips. (A factor that TeslaBjorn explores exhaustively). And yes, generally batteries are a less efficient way to store energy (for now), but electric motors are a more efficient way to USE energy, so there are fewer losses in a BEV than in an ICE drive train. So mpg vs m/kWh comparisons will always conflate energy density with system efficiency.... Simply because gallons are more energy dense than batteries.
@@patreekotime4578 A volume can be converted into energy - 9.7kWh per UK gallon of petrol (10.7kWh for diesel). These numbers used are for petrol for clarity, so a diesel getting 30mpg/50mpg/70mpg will be worse.
As the title includes MPG(ish) I included it for fullness, it is a valid comparison of things as *they* *lie* *now* , a kWh will always be a kWh; You are right - ICE has had 100 years to get to these levels of efficiency, EVs are just starting, with more research going into batteries now things are only going to get better.
I don't think anyone here will be alive to see batteries reach energy density parity with fossil fuels - Lithium ion is around 0.6 MJ/kg, petrol is 46.4 MJ/kg, even if batteries increase by an order of magnitude in the next decade they will still be severely lagging fossil fuels.
I would argue it is important to know what the starting point is, even with massive advantages ICE has to start with it is way less efficient, and it shows how hard companies eking out gains are working. A efficiency increase of 70 W/mile on an ICE car is a lot easier than on a EV for example.
Comparing energy density of fuel to batteries is stupid. It doesnt tell you anything. A 100kWh battery pack contains the same amount of energy as 3 US gallons of gasoline. That sounds impressive. But the average US vehicle can only go about 90 miles with 3 gallons. Whereas a decent EV can go 400 miles on the same energy. Even a super super efficient ICE vehicle will only top out at 200 miles on 100kWh worth of gasoline. Which means BEVs are already twice as efficient as the best ICE vehicles and over four times more efficient than the US average. So the whole idea of "parity" is a ridiculous notion. Real world people dont give a toss about energy density. They just want to know how far it will go and what that costs. And an EV that gets 400 miles on 100kWh is already at direct parity with an average US vehicle that goes 400 miles on an average 14 gallon tank. And it only costs 10 bucks to charge at home compared to 30+ bucks at the pump to go the same distance. What more "parity" do you need?
Hi can you do a vid on the best way to set up your Ohme charger I know it should be easy but it’s not when your nearly 80 years old ,any help would be appreciated
Very interesting!
Love the videos. My worry with EVs is that range and kWh per mile are too variable dependent on the weather and what type of journey you are doing. Skoda's website itself shows that their EV has a range of 338 miles under perfect conditions but in winter, with a car full and driving on the motorway that comes down to 170 miles. That's a miles / kWh of 4.1 or 2.1. It seems to me that for short around town driving EV makes so much sense (on an EV tariff) but for anyone who regularly travels around 200 miles in a trip it makes no sense at all. Given the cost of public charging, it struggles to make financial sense from a fuel perspective too if you need to charge whilst out.
If you have been socialised in l/100km , miles or km/kWh sounds quite strange.
In my case, if I want to know how much dos it cost me to make a 500km stretch, I have simply to multiply the kWh/100km value times 5 times the price of a kWh.
In the case of m/kWh you have to divide the length of you journey by the mpkWh value, which more people have problems with and then multiply by the kWh price.
But as I’ve said it depends on which value you are familiar with.
Just so you know, you can switch units between mi/kWh & Wh/mi on the VW ID.3
Kona does this as well.
Progress! Well ICE cars often let you have mpg or l/100km so why not EVs?
I've been driving myself nuts trying to figure out what the Energy Consumption on the UVO app meant. THANK YOU!
Think it's the equivalent of the European litres per 100 km... means very little to those of us who drive in the UK 🤷♂️
My i3 gives kwh/100km. Also shows instantaneous kwh/100km which is a stupid reading. Surely the instantaneous reading should be simply kw.
@@allanmitchell2410 kW is a measure of power so doesn't apply to work done unless a distance is specified.
Really useful info. I was wondering what was an 'efficient' miles/kWh.
Any EV over 4 miles/kWh, I class as efficient.
Is there anything online where I can see how far EVs go with a heavy load? I’m looking at a Polestar 2 and wondered what range I can expect with 4 people in the car
Thanks, yes a bit like the litres per 100Km for ICE vehicles. Like many I prefer the MPG ,or in EV speak Miles per KWh.
great content, it would be nice to display also a short information on what's that in metric, for your broader audience :-D. But i know this would take more time and math ;-)
It would not take that much math really, nor much time. :).
I own a PHEV Toyota Prius Prime. I like that it has an average of my mpg. I have been in some other cars recently for work and the average mpg seems to be calculated in real time. So, each time you push the peddle it updates rather than giving you an average overall. Plus the Toyota "trains" you to drive better with % scores to help you use less gas and learn to use the Regen breaking better.
Thanks EVM for another informative video. However, some viewers may be tempted estimate the range of an EV by multiplying the "efficiency" in mile/kWh by the quoted battery capacity of an EV in kWh. Manufacturers quote miles/kWh figures measured over the WLTP (Worldwide harmonised Light vehicle Test Procedure) lab test, which has an average speed of 29mph. EV drivers are going to be mostly interested in range, when driving long distances. Such journeys are likely to be undertaken on motorways / dual carraigeways, where cruising speeds of 70mph are possible. The energy consumption per mile of a vehicle increases with the vehicle speed (basic laws of physics). The "efficiency" quoted a over WLTP, is not a good guide to "efficiency" at 70mph. Those people interested in EVs, of which I am one, should concentrate on real world tests as the best indicator of range, rather than inferring it from these "efficiency" figures. These values are best reserved for calculating overall energy usage and cost, over long periods of time . Real world range of EVs at 70mph would be an interesting subjects for a future video.
Thanks for that... miles per kWh is easier to work out real £ costs.
I saw a Zoe review that was getting approx 5 miles per Kwh. Charging via Octopus at night is 5p per kwh. So theoretically 1p per mile. My ancient petrol Honda Civic costs 12.5p - 16p summer - winter in terms of Petrol: Huge difference.
@@user-jt1jv8vl9r City driving?
How so? Dividing is way harder to do in your head than multiplication. And if you are using a calculator it doesn't really matter. Showing energy used to do a certain work load is however the more logical way to present energy consumption in my opinion.
Thanks
Such an crucial thing to cover. I hadn’t got a clue about any of this when I bought my Kona. It still seems odd that these metrics of efficiency aren’t reported as a matter of routine in the same way as measures of fuel economy for ICE cars - and instead they just go for a random range estimate (e.g. WLTP). For the record, after 38,000 miles in the Kona to date, my average efficiency is an unspectacular 3.6mi/kWh - thanks for the majority of my miles being spent driving up and down the M6.
Highway driving and heat eat up lots of energy. It also depends on the car too.
They're basically the same measurement (the one is the inverse of the other, while shifting the decimal point around a bit)
[by the way, it has nothing to do with mathematics, it's (very) simple arithmetic]
Think I was parked next to you at the OXFORD E V motor show in 2018. We had a good chat. Remember the rolls Royce converted to electric.
Never been to a motor show in Oxford.
All uchoob needn't be enthralling. Explanation video I was looking for. Now know what the figures mean on my Tesla.
Most people will relate to miles per gallon in the uk so miles per kwh is best, making it relatable to mpg is the trick and will depend on the cost of electricity plus cars efficiency and cost of a gallon of fuel, not straight forward lol.
But all we need to know is which cars are efficient and whether or not we are driving them efficiently.
Driving behind a truck makes a massive difference but not very relaxing lol.
You laugh at these types of videos. But actually this one taught me something this time. I’ve always wondered what the difference between the to figures.. And as you say. Now I know. Have you got anymore gems like that.
The energy compare tool is good, but what it is missing is that some of those tariffs need you to have a 2nd Generation Smart Meter. If you don't then when you go to get a proper quote then the results will be different. I did this with EDF and now get 12p all the time, better but not great. One day all Smart Meters will be equal...
FYI, during the orientation to my new BMW i4 eDrive 40, the BMW genius confirmed that my 3.9 m/kwH is about average for that model. Thanks for the confirmation that I am about average.
How about doing a video on working out the value of the supercharger network and Sentry? Some people buy the wrong car as they simply know enough about these 2 key things!
Another challenge is how to resolve the 2 different measures involved when you're driving a PHEV. You can figure mpg when it's running pure petrol, but you have to figure watts/mile. What's the way to get an aggregate figure for running both petrol and electric?
Hi I've watched this video given the latest energy crisis can you do an up-to-date one, many thanks for your videos
Nothings changed in this regard.
Well, I think what's happening is that electricity is measuring the energy using the SI Units (kW / W) and the countries that use that to calculate economy for fossil cars (liters and kms) typically use energy per amount of distance (l / 100 km). So that's why. I think most of the World use energy per distance...
Exactly. Most of the world uses the metric system and measures consumption. UK and US aren't as far along on Metrication, and measure efficiency.
Consumption is a better thing to measure. Efficiency can be misleading: Going from 20 to 40 MPG will save you more money than going from 40 to 60 MPH.
Many EVs seem to conform to this convention, but Tesla does not, choosing consumption regardless of the units selected.
Ambiguous previous post. I assumed a much higher unit drawdown than I actually use. So I’m paying much more per unit than anticipated.
This is so useful, to be honest, EV Efficiency was clear as mud before this.video.
4mi/kWh is the standard for long term efficiency, set by the Chevy Bolt. My Bolt is at 4.2mi/kWh over 22,000 miles.
Yup teslas have been in the 250wattmile range for a while now, so maybe 250wm or 200wkm to be totally metric and a pain in the arse to the yanks
@@williamgoode9114 wattmile is multiplication. The “per” is important.
That's is amazing. You getting better efficiency in city driving or freeway? I got 4.3 mi / 1 KW today on my model 3 long range. 61 miles of total driving 32 miles on free way and rest on city.
the Wh/mi comes from the markets the metric system is used for consumptions. Most of those markets use markets use l/100km to express consumption. Why on earth Telsa uses Wh/mi I have no idea.
Most manufacturers use both notations (depending on which region the car is configured for). For ICE cars it's just set in the format of the region where it's sold (and not a user accessable setting). But somehow that practice isn't followed as strict for EVs.
I just have the option to change it in settings. kWh/100km is what I find easiest, as that is the same reference frame as l/100km. Same distantce scale (100km) and the consumptions unit is the same as the fuel is priced €/l and €/kWh
Wh/m consumption would approach 0 the better you drive (or start to regen), whereas m/kWh would jump to infinity and scare the living daylights out of someone reading the dials as to why you have such big numbers growing (or just show an infinity symbol if SW is clever enough).
Considering that a really good EV only gets about 6 m/kWh it'll be an infinity number of years before vehicles reach infinity m/kWh.
@@patreekotime4578 I was talking about a real-time display of consumption. Some ICE cars show it real-time (like Jaguar), and as soon as you lift off when going down hill, fuel supply is cut off, and the gauge shows infinity (shortly before that it displays a very large number like 50000 or 99999:)
I use about 0.25 kWh per km. Have you seen the paper on RG re home EV charging? Google 1.3.3 Electric Vehicle and LCT Loads on Constrained Distribution Networks Researchgate. Looks like problems ahead...
I have the MG ZS EV with a 51.1 kwh battery. I constantly get 10 miles per kwh around town.
3.75 miles/KWh is WAY TOO HIGH for EVs in the US. The Kia and Hyundai vehicles get about 3.0-3.1. Some of the EV trucks would be lucky to get half that. Honestly, 5.00 mi/KWh seems impossible with almost all of the EV vehicles in the US.
Could you add info for the US. Seems a lot of other countries have all these great tools for EVs. Another great video added to the vault
30 UK mpg - 25.0 US mpg
50 UK mpg - 41.7 US mpg
70 UK mpg - 58.3 US mpg
(roughly)
@CED99 and because of the preponderance of trucks and SUVs, the US average is quite alot lower than the UK average.
I like kWh/100km to compare the efficiency and km/Wh is nice if I want to know how many kWh I need to recharge to do some distance.
For me, 13kWh/100km on national roads and 15kWh/100km on highway is the value I am using to compare if another car is efficient or not. I am driving a Ioniq 1st generation.
The numbers you are using show your Ioniq is pretty efficient - the board converted to kWh/100km -
25.0 kWh/100km
16.7 kWh/100km
12.5 kWh/100km
Quite simply put, one is the inverse of the other.
It's the equivalent of saying kilometres/litre or litres/kilometre. For those in the olden days, it's akin to saying miles/gallon or gallons/mile.
So a 50 mpg car uses 1/50 gallons per mile, and a 10 km/litre car uses 1/10 litres/km - which is, in turn, the same thing as 100cc/km, or 10 litres/100 km, which is the European manufacturers' way of stating consumption.
Fuel !
Great video. Would be interested to find out the energy of a gallon of diesel expressed in kWh. That’s my evening of googling sorted out. Also going to compare electric trains for work
What was it, asking for a friend ?
That makes it quite a bit more complicated because EVs are approximately 90% efficient in using the energy from the plug to rolling the wheels, whereas ICE vehicles are damn lucky to approach 30% over all driving conditions. Idling and part-“throttle” driving at city speed is particularly inefficient, and stop-and-go never puts “fuel” back in the tank like regenerative braking. The US EPA does have gallon equivalents on the website for you, nevertheless.
I recall it's about 48 kWh/gallon (UK that is) for diesel and about 44 for petrol. So looked at in very basic terms an ICE car gets about 1 mile/kWh.
@@pdken3081 and an electric after the very refining process to electrons gets about three, which makes sense as two thirds goes as heat either up cooling towers or through radiators, ah but I hear you scream electricity is made from panels which emit no heat or hydro which has no devastating effect on the eco system; coal and oil is fast being phased out, gas is only a peaker transition, EV's are three times more efficient with absolutely no tail pipe emissions and we'll all ride around on unicorns
@@pdken3081 so instead of 44 you could just say 10,kW/litre
Thanks EVM for going into such detail and explaining this sort of thing so well. If you want a *_quick and rough guide_* on how much it could cost to charge your EV and which energy tariff might suit you, then check out our comparison tool right here: www.smarthomecharge.co.uk/guides/energy-tariffs-how-to-keep-ev-charging-costs-low
There is at leest one subscriber from “the continent” and I am aware of a recent Brexit 😉, but could you please next time mention the prices in Euro’s, distances and ranges in Kilometers, consumption in Litres 👍🏼🙏🏼
I have a feeling it won't matter what you input into the calculator, Octopus Go will be the best. You can't argue with 5p a kilowatt.
5p/kWh
What I'd really like to see is a comparison between ICE and electric but starting with the average totals for extraction, refining, transport, transmission, losses, etc. I frequently see the claim that ICE engines are 18% efficient but I believe that's based on running it on a bench at optimal RPM, but doesn't take the other factors into account.
Check out a good video with a simple and easy to understand ICE vs electric visual: th-cam.com/video/AFPRvfNW-Qs/w-d-xo.html
I thought ICE might come up to 30% efficiency, but that is definitely driving on a track at standard speed. One thing a lot of people seem to forget is that stopped in traffic ICE has to turn off the engine or it will keep wasting fuel while a BEV is not going to lose notable amount of range just because you keep the AC on.
This not rocket science, energy usage will be dependent on the same factors as ICE car/SUV. Units can be converted whatever way you like.
Bottom line is that better engineer vehicle having less weight, smaller frontal area and low (eg.0.23) drag coefficient will use less energy.Best example Tesla model3.!!!!
Could you or one of your subs answer the following
In a Tesla model s the battery is 100 kwh , what size would the petrol tank be in order for it to be equal in energy density .
A UK gallon of gasoline contains 43.955 kWh of energy. So a battery pack with 100 kWh of available energy would be equivalent to 2.275 UK gallons. I don't think Model S lets you use 100 kWh, so it's actually a bit less than that.
In US gallons it is 33.7 kWh. It is also not advisable to "use" your full gas tank unless you want to get stranded. It is also generally bad for an ICE vehicle to drive around with an almost empty gas tank. And many cars that Ive owned have a larger tank capacity than advertised. The advertised 12 gallon tank on my current vehicle is actually 14g. And the warning chime comes on with around 4g left... (2g of advertised volume) Which is about 16%. So really EVs and ICE vehicles are the same in those regards to having buffers... The only difference really is that EVs tend to have less usable capacity than advertised and ICE vehicles tend to have more.
A Model S with 100kWh pack is equivalent in pure energy to about 3 US gallons. But ICE vehicles are very inefficient at converting energy into miles while BEVs are very efficient. So the 100kWh pack gets you about 400 miles of range or 4 miles per kWh. But 3 gallons only gets you 90 miles in a US average 30mpg vehicle. As a US gallons contains about 33.7 kWh of energy that comes out to 0.88 miles per kWh. So the real question isn't how many gallons it takes to equal 100kWh, but how many gallons it takes to go 400 miles... Which is 13 gallons for a 30mpg vehicle... Which happens to be about the average size tank for a smaller US vehicle. So the Model S Long Range is basically at parity with the average US vehicle in terms of miles per "fillup".
LOL! MY V8 gets 12 MPG! When you said 30 MPG was very inefficient I was like WHAT? Anyway I purchased a 23 M3 RWD so Im trying to understand how EV efficiency is calculated Thanks
How about km/kWh or W/km?
Realy nice video for the UK. Can you do one in Lts per Km for the other 750 million European viewers?
I’m sure they’re capable of making the conversions themselves. Literally all that’s left to do.
@@ElectricVehicleMan 1Km = 1000 meters. 1Mile = 5,280 feet. I love your UK measurements. Will you ever switch to metric?
Does either rearly matter at this moment in time , can't drive anywhere
Let’s delete the video then until we can! 🤔
ive seen videos of EV Vehicles recharging with a honda generator. can you do the math aon how many miles you get per gallon from a generator?
Hi , great video I have been thinking for a while now about buying a PHEV Niro , my question is. I live in a town house ( modern terrist house with front garden which I could drive onto but only if need to , is it legal to have the charging cable over the pavement it is at the end of a cull the sac so nobody uses the pavement , hope to hear from you before I plunge into it
Stuart
Usually with a cable cover that people can walk over. Best asking your local council.
Smart Home Charge told me they couldn't install a charger, if the charging cable would cross any path
@@watcher24601 Not a proper charger. 3 pin plug I was talking about.
@@ElectricVehicleMan I got the impression it was leaving yourself open to public liability claims whatever the size of cable
@@watcher24601 what did you do , to get over the problem
Probably for the British consumer it’s best to use 4 x kWh , soooooo Tesla mod 3 , 4 x 86kwh = 344 miles 😊
I must inquire about an average of 50mpg for gas cars. I looked up all the car MPGs on Google, and any car over your median value of 30mpg, on the whole, was a hybrid. Of gasoline-only vehicles, the average, at least in the USA, is closer to 25mpg.
As I said in the video, this is UK gallons, not US.
Also based on an RAC study.
You need another column for the European figures ; kwh/100km
25.0 kWh/100km
16.7 kWh/100km
12.5 kWh/100km
My 2019 Nissan Leaf has averaged 5.0 miles/Kwh over last 4 1/2 years
. An electric car battery fully charged 100 kWh high-voltage battery has the energy equivalent of three gallons of gas. With that battery, the car can travel about 250 miles
I'm pleased you did this video, but I am a little concerned that your table implies that, for example, 70mpg is equivalent to 5.00 miles/KWh in any real way.
Petrol yields 9.6KWh/l or 43.6KWh/gal according to DEFRA (search for 7309-cca-draft-technical-guidance-app-b.xls)
So 1 UK gallon would give you 218 miles at 5.0 miles/KWh - VERY different from 70.
Yes, I know you didn't actually claim otherwise, but tables are, well, tables and will be read as such!
Can’t do anything more than explain it as I did. If someone doesn’t watch it properly then there’s nothing I can do with that.
It’s accurate in its purpose.
@@ElectricVehicleMan Yup, I didn't complain and I acknowledged that you didn't claim the table was to be read as such, but I wanted to emphasise just how efficient BEVs are in their energy use compared to what we think of as a norm with ICE cars.
Keep up the good work