When Japanese people say THIS, be careful... (Tatemae and Honne)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
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Music: Kazoom, Quincas Moreira
Tatemae- saying things you don't necessarily mean for the sake of what others want to hear or for the comfort of the situation.
Honne- your true inner thoughts and feelings
To me most foreigners have issues with both "tatemae and honne" because think it is an issue in Japanese culture. But it is simply normal, and something you got to work with when over there at Japan. Simply with enough time it is very likely to stablish strong relationships with natives despite those things.
True, i worked and lived in Japan for 11yrs and i truly considered my second home. It's a Japanese culture to be modest, respectful, and very considerate of not being hurtful or rude to strangers or friends.
Was this some Japan on a different planet? I lived in the Japan on this planet for many years and can honestly say that they and the Koreans are some of the most racist, cruelest people on the face of the Earth.
Final few minutes were so valuable. Another solid take.
But I saw a lot of Tatemae in The Office when people talk to Michael Scott.
I have been here for a long time and I consider myself as a Tatemae eraser. haha. I always tell the Japanese around me to be comfortable to say what they want to say and be more honest and sincere. I want them to speak what is on their mind and it will be free from ridicule or judgment. And it is really surprising to hear their secrets, their dark sides and their real heart and mind. Japan is a country where people wear lots of masks. haha
has that actually worked out for you? i would imagine they would still keep being tatemae even if you prompted them otherwise. the only times they really ever open up is if you go drinking with them or if you've developed a close enough relationship
I believe tatemae is really just an elevated version of "people pleasing", as I also do that too myself to people who i don't feel i'm close with like for example i often ended up wasting my time to accommodate with other people's plans because of the fear to disappoint others. It can be very draining and taxing on my energy.
We have it in the west too. If someone with a baby says "isn't he cute?", most people don't say "no" even if that's their real opinion.
people dont realize the west has tatemae we just dont have a word for it. people are agreeable at work and with family all the time.
"Yes man" is a term of sorts.
It’s called “talking out of both sides of your mouth”
it's called " being nice " it's why nice guys finish last
yes and no, it exists but it's on a completely different level here in Japan. Let's put it this way: if you simply just don't want to go out and hang out with someone, something simple like that: in the west you'd just....say no, maybe politely like "I just don't feel like it", but regardless it'll be fairly straightforward.
here in Japan...you're either going to get someone who goes along hard and acts like they're super excited for it and pumped up because they feel they have to act like that even if they have no intention of actually going, ooor they're going to come up with the most convulted and vague excuse of saying no in a very roundabout manner without actually saying it
yes, surely, but i never ever got stressed from having to be polite or get along...only to suddenly be asked to address a crowd unprepared..which is a normal kind of stage fright...
There is a lot of tatemae in the USA.
Not the same intent. The guy in the blue shirt explained it well. It’s not about hurting the other person. There’s a societal thing in Japan about not creating an uncomfortable atmosphere for the betterment of the whole. The American variant of the idea is more to deceive, it’s done for entertainment and extends far beyond just trying to keep the peace.
There’s a great movie called “the invention of lying” you should see. There is some Tatemae that is necessary for us to get along in life. Like, you don’t walk up to a fat person and tell them “lose weight, fat ass!” or tell a sick, dying child that they have no hope and accept the inevitable.
Of course there is tatemae in every culture but few if any reach the level of Japan’s. You can know someone for years here and have no clue what they really think of you.
A lot of people from where I am from have a soft version of Tatemae, I would imagine the UK in poliet company is the same.
I believe that every country has honne and tatemae. Japanese people tend to emphasize social cooperation and harmony with others. This is related to local communities in Japan, which are prone to natural disasters. In local communities, interdependence is strong and harmony with the group is important. As a result, there is a tendency to understate real intentions and emphasize tatemae. This cultural background has influenced the communication style of the Japanese.
どの国にも、本音と建前はあると思います。日本人は、社会との協調性や、他者との調和を重視する傾向が他の国より強くあると思います。これは、自然災害の多い日本の地域社会（昔の村社会的な）に関係しています。地域社会では、相互依存が強く、集団との調和が重要視されます。その結果として本音を控えめにし、建前を重視する傾向が生まれました。この文化的な背景が、日本人のコミュニケーションスタイルに影響を与えていると思います。
Most traditional cultures tend to have it, but American culture (from which I would guess most of the surprised people come) very much leans on complete directness - the point most other cultures would consider them extremely rude. This comes out of the mixing of different languages, cultures and peoples who came to America all needing to be more clear to one another about what exactly they meant to avoid conflict.
British (particularly English) culture, much like Japanese, is also notorious for indirectness being used to cover their true feelings and words. The degree is a little less extreme, but the culture shock is definitely there for Americans who come to the UK.
Also, there is some overlap or a portal between Tatemae and Honne. Hear me out. If you are good at reading others and are adept at logical and emotional empathy, you are able to see the Honne through the person's Tatemae.
I think the level of expectations for harmony is different though in different cultures. At work is US, for example, you’re expected to bring value to the team by bringing up issues and solutions. We also say, “ I see where you’re coming from”, “ I agree but in this situation ..”. But in general the comfort level for differing ideas is much higher. If you are just an agreeable person, you won’t be thought of highly as a professional. Sometimes there’s even a competition for speaking up, showing off of your knowledge or accomplishments, etc.
Every country has more or less tatemae. In the case of Japanese women, they tell too many lies, which makes them disliked by foreigners.
great video like always
Love your channel! So much insight👍🏼
Got it… so if I walk up to a Japanese girl and say… “do you think I’m sexy”… she will say yes 😂
she will call out for the cops, and rightfully so...we say creep back home
The subs aren’t perfect but this is a really great topic to talk about!
I think it’s depends on individuals even you are Japanese. Honne and Tatemae definition is based on individuals so you can’t describe it with simple words I guess
Looking forward to this one 😸
For example, even if your loved one gives you a gift that is boring to you, "Thank you! That's a great gift!" you would say.
This kind of thing would happen anywhere in the world.
"Tatemae" is not as alien a concept as foreigners visiting Japan may think.
I heard this came about due to the ancient hierarchal social structure and got ingrained into society over time. Back in the day when you were a peasant, anyone of higher status (samurai) could kill you indiscriminately so the majority of people had to learn how to read the room VERY well and appease others.
Japanese "Ancient hierarchy" is aristocratic in nature. Most famous samurai clans have noble or imperial ancestry. GEN-JI 源氏 literally means origin is the same with the Imperial Family. 源氏 or 平氏 are common clan names given when they become subjects after 3 generations. Defending their own land is how aristocratic descendants became increasingly warrior-like. And most questions asked by strangers would be answered by Tatemae in nature.
The only thing I dislike about the culture is Tatemae. I know in Japan it is courteous, as to not hurt the others feelings.
But, it definitely defines as lying.
If someone said let's hang out but then ghosts me, that's just as rude if not, more disrespectful as if they just told me to my face they don't want to know me.
I'm too straight forward and honest to understand this part of the culture.
Lol. The tatemae of "let's hang out oneday" is not uniquely Japanese. Even the most outgoing American wouldn't straight up tell you, nah I don't want to see you again. The bigger difference is that Americans will give better signals that they aren't vibing with you better.
It’s *much* more pronounced in Japan though. In Japan a foreigner would get the impression that the Japanese person really _did_ want to hang out. There’d be apparent interest and even enthusiasm. You’d actually have to parse the words carefully to detect the tatamae.
leave those likes, guys
we want more content
I like your channel but can you translate a bit more "litteraly", not trying to be downcoming, but it's strange to me that when people translate they want to be artistic about it.
I like the channel, keep the good work that's why I wonder about this !
I think most white skin are like this(china,japan,korea,taiwan,singapore) , as in my country is like this too.
We do this in the USA too. Tatemae may be similar to what we call a "white lie." e.g., Wife to husband, " Does this dress make me look fat?" Husband to wife, "No (the white lie), but other choices may better suit you (what he really thinks)." Any husband without this skill will not have a peaceful life.
tatemae : say nice things in an interview
honne : talking shit on the internet
I think I would offend the Japanese people with my straightforward way of speaking and looking in their eyes ...
lmao those god damn noisy trucks !
で is not pronounced "DAY", it's pronounced "deh". ね isn't pronounced "NAY", it's pronounced "neh". Just surprised because the japanese itself is good, i would think he'd have the pronunciation a little more down pat.
its all about saving face.
you lie to save the other person's face,
Tatamae is a big reason why Japan gets away with a lot of illogical BS in situations that demand and deserve a debate for progress...but no must never argue or disagree with anyone older than you. So dumb.
16:22 Yup 15:15 Wrong
bravo you just discourage us to go in japan. japanese shouldn't be surprised or saddened that less and less gaijin come to japan one day. because of their culture.
Trust me, they will not be saddened. Alot of them really don't want us there 😂
Looking at social media lately, I think more and more people are mistaking the real meaning of HONNE and TATEMAE and are suspicious of Japanese people. For example, when a Japanese person treats you nicely, you say "Nah, they're just faking themselves" "that's tatemae" or "they are making fun of you inside!" and so on. I think that's ridiculous. Not all Japanese use tatemae all the time, and it seems pretty rude to question it when they are really being nice to you. Why are social media people so paranoid?🤔
here in America it's a badge of honor to be rude to someone and have everyone watch you do it, but in Japan you lie right to their face to protect their feelings? inside face outside face?
I don't think it's a badge of honor per se
As I listen to the justifications for employing tatamae, I can't help but think that this is what TH-cam demands in the comments section. If you use honne about certain topics that shall remain unnamed, they will banish you. Instead, they expect you to use tatemae so that "the boss" (that would be Google) is not upset by your words. Ditto for just about all of the big major American corporations. Use words or express thoughts that they don't like, and you will get cancelled!
5:20 The woman says, "Kind lies". Reminds me of what we used to call "White lies". It is not the truth, but your motive is to not hurt the feelings of the person you are lying to.
This guy's accent sometimes, i can't 😆
This seems like a very sneaky way of slowly destroying an important part of Japanese culture through subtle suggestions.
It’s not “Lies” per se. Usually it’s used to save everyone’s face. If you like to categorize things into Black/White, Japan is not for you obviously. LOL.
It literally translates to a false front. So intentionally fake.
I thought living in Tokyo was way easier than Osaka. People know how to deal with Gaijin more often than Osaka. They’re pretty backwards there. Also look at their style in Osaka… Haha, they always look like they just woke up there. Also using tatemae gets tiring and boring. Takes too much energy without benefit. Generally these conversations feel hollow and meaningless when people use this. Like talking to AI or something.
You did not say which is more tatemae, tokyo or osaka? Or WHICH is more AI like??
they think its ok to think of someone as such a weakling that he will not be able to handle the truth? where their honor?
That's not it. They're just trying to hurt people's feelings. So it's a softer less direct form of communication. It's not exactly lying.