There is certainly a trend, internationally it seems, that Secular Franciscans are not being fed spiritually. Its a very tricky topic. All around us here in London for example, Fraternities are closing. Yet our's (attached to OFM) is thriving and growing with lots of younger people. Is that to do with geographics maybe? It could be? It could well be the Spirit at work. But what can we do in our lives? We must build and form ourselves before Profession. Even if Profession takes years and years. Formation is for life. St Francis was forming even on his death bed! We have to keep building and keep looking upwards.... but ultimately, perhaps its the Formation Programme that needs to be looked at, if people are committed to the Rule and charism but end up leaving. Pax from London!
Yes! Agree totally. I do favour “To Live As Francis Lived” and “The Franciscan Journal” over “The Journey” (see previous videos, esp last week’s livestream). I do have online access to OFS GB’s handbook, but I’ve never seen your formation guide. I have been told, though, that having. friar as opposed to a layperson spiritual assistant makes a huge difference, but I think insisting on a spiritual director for each member would be of greater benefit. It seems we agree on much. Thank you for sharing 💕🙏
Thought about your observation about geography, but it’s hard to compare GB to USA. There areas I know where whole fraternities have left are in New Jersey, Ohio, Texas, and (I think) Hawaii. That’s pretty scattered for the USA, but it’s not openly talked about, so it’s difficult to be sure.
Left after being professed in the 80s due to serious irregularities in several fraternities I'd been in. Moved all over the continent so it wasn't local only. Members openly violating the Rule by sexual sins and constant infighting. Numerous members admitted to being schizophrenic and disruptive, even violent at meetings. Some were sexual predators. I complained to regional leadership and was put down as a troublemaker.y conscience couldn't condone staying in.
I am so sorry that happened to you! Let me know if you ever need to talk or have insights you’d like to share. (Many Franciscans have found a home in the smaller, local Third Orders under a bishop or a particular friary OR containing their Franciscan life on their own.)
I left the formation process for several reasons: 1) As a dad, I spent a lot of time with my two younger teenagers. 2) I was much more involved with the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal (may look into the fraternity affiliated with them at some point). 3) It felt more like a nice club, rather than an active apostolate helping the poor, visiting the sick, etc. Very nice people, but not in the world. It was all meetings. 4) The authors of the reading material seemed to come from the Left.
@@edwardgarcia3718 agreed on most of these points. The vision was to unite us all, but it ended up pulling many away from association with the friars and their work. Most of the friars ended up making their own Third Orders, so it’s counterproductive. Some fraternities, however, only do social work and focus little on formation or prayer. And some local fraternities focus more on legislation and social justice. Yes! IMHO To Live As Francis Lived is a much better formation guide for the OFS. The Confraternity of Penitents also has good formation material.
@@DeannaWillistonOFS thank you for your kind reply. I think that many who are called to be Secular Franciscans are doing the work of God. The fraternity that I was a part of for about 10 months is composed largely of loving, kind devoted folks. It was only because of the reasons mentioned that I discerned that it wasn’t for me. God bless you and your channel.
I lost access to my Spiritual Director during Covid. He moved away. I haven’t found another. I waited 4 years before even becoming an Inquirer. We were professed right before Covid.
That is an interesting take, but it is difficult to be Franciscan and not be in community. Even Francis of Assisi struggled with this, but he admitted that God have him brothers and he then sought guidance from a priest and the Bible as to what to do next.
@DeannaWillistonOFS be in your church community, meet with your priest. Live as a Franciscan. Sometimes, people become something or join something just to be able to say I'm this or that. Not sure if I'm explaining it correctly. I'm just saying, Francis didn't join anything, didn't fill out an application, he just did it because he was called.
@@deanmcdiarmid7068 I get what you’re saying, but if we did that now, it wouldn’t be Franciscan, it would be something new. St. Francis lived by certain principles and obedience was one of them. He wanted to be a contemplative who lived in a cave, but God sent him brothers and then sisters. He discerned through St. Clare and a brother that he should not leave the fledgling group, even to be some a hermit. Even after he came back from his meeting with the sultan and found the order under new leadership and rules, he did not leave. Maybe the new groups will eventually lead to reform, but I can’t help but think it would come sooner if our brothers and sisters would quit leaving.
Only if you are able to start a new fraternity. Many of the other Third Orders of St. Francis, however, do have programs for members without fraternities. The Confraternity of Penitents (www.franciscanthirdorderpenitents.com/ ) and the Third Order Franciscans (thirdorderfranciscans.com/) are two such groups, but there are others.
My Regional Minister wanted me to add that we lost a lot of brothers and sisters during COVID. Some moved, some died, and some just haven’t come back. Has this been a global phenomenon in the OFS?
Most ppl think St Francis is just a statue for birds, unfortunately. Or worse yet, that he even said the "when necessary use words" thing-- especially since he wrote so much!
I just tried to make a query to the lay Franciscans . I had a very bad experience with the person answering intake queries. It was offensive, the way I was spoken to. The person had no information about me and was making rash judgements. It was in modern expression, a total turn off. I had never read anything about Franciscan Spirituality. The person seemed to be pushing the Franciscan Penitents. I did use a query form. I have no spiritual direction at present. True. The rules matter, as well as proximity to where you live. And I was looking for proximity to a certain region. I did obtain the rules for Secular Franciscans. My prior readings were the writings of St Theresa ( what a chatterbox ) and St John of the Cross ( what depth ). I'm much older now. And I believe community is very important. Just wanted to make it known that being rude and speaking unnecessarily critical of people making queries ( in my case looking for community and to have friends, having lived in seclusion for too long ) is no help or encouragement whatsoever. In the world, and not of it.
I am very sorry that happened to you. I do not know, from your post, whom you contacted. I am interested in learning more about your experience, feel free to email me. If you are still interested in Franciscan spirituality, but are not ready to contact someone yet, check out my newest video on the various options and discernment tools. The Third Orders of Saint Francis of Assisi - a discernment resource for the Franciscan Family th-cam.com/video/Zc5xvdACydo/w-d-xo.html
I am so sorry this happened to you. I’m not sure what happened, but know that you may not have been a fit for a particular fraternity -that does not mean you wouldn’t fit in at another one. Try to reach out to the regional minister and see if there is a better fit for you. If not, check out my videos on other third orders of Saint Francis.
@@DeannaWillistonOFSThe Entire Five State Region rejected Me. I had Discovered, some of the Friar’s were Gay and I really got hurt. I also found out They aloud the Profession of a Hatchit. I did nothing wrong. It hurts to get judged wrongly. The People that the Queen Of Peace Fraternity, in Minnesota. So I am now A Affilliate to the CFP. Because everyone else rejected Me. Rudely and NEVER talked anything out with Me.
I went to Assisi in July Of 1995, with Secular Franciscans. A Beautifull Pilgrimage. Because the entire 5 State rejected Me on account of lies told about Me by the Brother’s Of Peace. I chose to be a Affilliate to the CFP. Which, Lives the 1221 Rule. I did nothing wrong. But the Queen Of Peace Region, did NOT treat Me Fairly. I asked to talk it out with even the Regional Minister and They flat out rudely rejected Me. Won’t return Phone call’s and etc.
If you mean me, lol I am wearing a hooded sweatshirt. I am almost always wearing a hoodie. But Secular Franciscans are still allowed to be buried in a habit. It is a great blessing to our families not to have to pick our clothes or worry about sizes. Some Franciscan have both funeral habit and simple coffin already purchased and stored together in their house.
such a surreal conversation to have in the public domain..
There is certainly a trend, internationally it seems, that Secular Franciscans are not being fed spiritually. Its a very tricky topic. All around us here in London for example, Fraternities are closing. Yet our's (attached to OFM) is thriving and growing with lots of younger people. Is that to do with geographics maybe? It could be? It could well be the Spirit at work. But what can we do in our lives? We must build and form ourselves before Profession. Even if Profession takes years and years. Formation is for life. St Francis was forming even on his death bed! We have to keep building and keep looking upwards.... but ultimately, perhaps its the Formation Programme that needs to be looked at, if people are committed to the Rule and charism but end up leaving. Pax from London!
Yes! Agree totally. I do favour “To Live As Francis Lived” and “The Franciscan Journal” over “The Journey” (see previous videos, esp last week’s livestream). I do have online access to OFS GB’s handbook, but I’ve never seen your formation guide. I have been told, though, that having. friar as opposed to a layperson spiritual assistant makes a huge difference, but I think insisting on a spiritual director for each member would be of greater benefit. It seems we agree on much. Thank you for sharing 💕🙏
Thought about your observation about geography, but it’s hard to compare GB to USA. There areas I know where whole fraternities have left are in New Jersey, Ohio, Texas, and (I think) Hawaii. That’s pretty scattered for the USA, but it’s not openly talked about, so it’s difficult to be sure.
Grace brings Grace.
Greetings to the USA secular franciscan brothers from the region of the Saints Francisco&Santiago in Mexico
Left after being professed in the 80s due to serious irregularities in several fraternities I'd been in. Moved all over the continent so it wasn't local only. Members openly violating the Rule by sexual sins and constant infighting. Numerous members admitted to being schizophrenic and disruptive, even violent at meetings. Some were sexual predators. I complained to regional leadership and was put down as a troublemaker.y conscience couldn't condone staying in.
I am so sorry that happened to you! Let me know if you ever need to talk or have insights you’d like to share.
(Many Franciscans have found a home in the smaller, local Third Orders under a bishop or a particular friary OR containing their Franciscan life on their own.)
I left the formation process for several reasons:
1) As a dad, I spent a lot of time with my two younger teenagers.
2) I was much more involved with the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal (may look into the fraternity affiliated with them at some point).
3) It felt more like a nice club, rather than an active apostolate helping the poor, visiting the sick, etc. Very nice people, but not in the world. It was all meetings.
4) The authors of the reading material seemed to come from the Left.
@@edwardgarcia3718 agreed on most of these points. The vision was to unite us all, but it ended up pulling many away from association with the friars and their work. Most of the friars ended up making their own Third Orders, so it’s counterproductive.
Some fraternities, however, only do social work and focus little on formation or prayer. And some local fraternities focus more on legislation and social justice.
Yes! IMHO To Live As Francis Lived is a much better formation guide for the OFS. The Confraternity of Penitents also has good formation material.
@@DeannaWillistonOFS thank you for your kind reply. I think that many who are called to be Secular Franciscans are doing the work of God. The fraternity that I was a part of for about 10 months is composed largely of loving, kind devoted folks. It was only because of the reasons mentioned that I discerned that it wasn’t for me.
God bless you and your channel.
I lost access to my Spiritual Director during Covid. He moved away. I haven’t found another. I waited 4 years before even becoming an Inquirer. We were professed right before Covid.
Oh, my! Try SeekDirection.App and I was processed towards the end. We had finished up formation over Zoom.
Did Francisco join anything? Just be a Franciscan. Stop thinking in a modern mind. Just be and take on a Franciscan lifestyle. That's it.
That is an interesting take, but it is difficult to be Franciscan and not be in community. Even Francis of Assisi struggled with this, but he admitted that God have him brothers and he then sought guidance from a priest and the Bible as to what to do next.
@DeannaWillistonOFS be in your church community, meet with your priest. Live as a Franciscan. Sometimes, people become something or join something just to be able to say I'm this or that. Not sure if I'm explaining it correctly. I'm just saying, Francis didn't join anything, didn't fill out an application, he just did it because he was called.
@@deanmcdiarmid7068 I get what you’re saying, but if we did that now, it wouldn’t be Franciscan, it would be something new. St. Francis lived by certain principles and obedience was one of them. He wanted to be a contemplative who lived in a cave, but God sent him brothers and then sisters. He discerned through St. Clare and a brother that he should not leave the fledgling group, even to be some a hermit. Even after he came back from his meeting with the sultan and found the order under new leadership and rules, he did not leave. Maybe the new groups will eventually lead to reform, but I can’t help but think it would come sooner if our brothers and sisters would quit leaving.
I am not professed yet however, the only way I can see myself leaving is if my cell goes too far left and make St Francis out to be more of a hippie.
Greetings from your friends. The Third Order, Society of St Francis, Province of the Americas. James + (prof '97).
Pax et Bonum! If you have a website or info you’d like to share with my viewers, email me at DeannaTheMrs@gmail.com
Peace and love
Pax et bonum from Fort Myers. Allen ofs
Is it possible to join the secular Franciscans if I live in North Dakota and there are not any others around me?
Only if you are able to start a new fraternity. Many of the other Third Orders of St. Francis, however, do have programs for members without fraternities. The Confraternity of Penitents (www.franciscanthirdorderpenitents.com/ ) and the Third Order Franciscans (thirdorderfranciscans.com/) are two such groups, but there are others.
My Regional Minister wanted me to add that we lost a lot of brothers and sisters during COVID. Some moved, some died, and some just haven’t come back. Has this been a global phenomenon in the OFS?
It has not been in my local fraternity (though I'm the youngest with 47 yrs), Greetings from Germany! Ralf ofs
@@ralfbettker-cuza7432 Guten tag, Ralf!
I doubt that y'all fell for the media narrative of covid.
Most ppl think St Francis is just a statue for birds, unfortunately. Or worse yet, that he even said the "when necessary use words" thing-- especially since he wrote so much!
Hello, greetings to you, Sister of the Secular Franciscan Order. Peace and goodness
I just tried to make a query to the lay Franciscans . I had a very bad experience with the person answering intake queries. It was offensive, the way I was spoken to. The person had no information about me and was making rash judgements. It was in modern expression, a total turn off. I had never read anything about Franciscan Spirituality. The person seemed to be pushing the Franciscan Penitents. I did use a query form. I have no spiritual direction at present. True. The rules matter, as well as proximity to where you live. And I was looking for proximity to a certain region. I did obtain the rules for Secular Franciscans. My prior readings were the writings of St Theresa ( what a chatterbox ) and St John of the Cross ( what depth ). I'm much older now. And I believe community is very important. Just wanted to make it known that being rude and speaking unnecessarily critical of people making queries ( in my case looking for community and to have friends, having lived in seclusion for too long ) is no help or encouragement whatsoever. In the world, and not of it.
I am very sorry that happened to you. I do not know, from your post, whom you contacted. I am interested in learning more about your experience, feel free to email me.
If you are still interested in Franciscan spirituality, but are not ready to contact someone yet, check out my newest video on the various options and discernment tools. The Third Orders of Saint Francis of Assisi - a discernment resource for the Franciscan Family
th-cam.com/video/Zc5xvdACydo/w-d-xo.html
I was totally rejected and treated rudely, by the Secular Franciscans.
I am so sorry this happened to you. I’m not sure what happened, but know that you may not have been a fit for a particular fraternity -that does not mean you wouldn’t fit in at another one. Try to reach out to the regional minister and see if there is a better fit for you. If not, check out my videos on other third orders of Saint Francis.
@@DeannaWillistonOFSThe Entire Five State Region rejected Me. I had Discovered, some of the Friar’s were Gay and I really got hurt. I also found out They aloud the Profession of a Hatchit. I did nothing wrong. It hurts to get judged wrongly. The People that the Queen Of Peace Fraternity, in Minnesota. So I am now A Affilliate to the CFP. Because everyone else rejected Me. Rudely and NEVER talked anything out with Me.
I went to Assisi in July Of 1995, with Secular Franciscans. A Beautifull Pilgrimage. Because the entire 5 State rejected Me on account of lies told about Me by the Brother’s Of Peace. I chose to be a Affilliate to the CFP. Which, Lives the 1221 Rule. I did nothing wrong. But the Queen Of Peace Region, did NOT treat Me Fairly. I asked to talk it out with even the Regional Minister and They flat out rudely rejected Me. Won’t return Phone call’s and etc.
Greetings from your friends in the Third Order, Society of St. Francis, Province of the Americas. James + (Prof '97).
Secular Franciscans don't wear the brown robe like this lady wears.
If you mean me, lol I am wearing a hooded sweatshirt. I am almost always wearing a hoodie. But Secular Franciscans are still allowed to be buried in a habit. It is a great blessing to our families not to have to pick our clothes or worry about sizes. Some Franciscan have both funeral habit and simple coffin already purchased and stored together in their house.