Line 6 Helix - How To Create A Great Tone - Pt. 19 - FX Placement Within The Signal Chain
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2018
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In this installment of the Creating A Great Tone series, I talk about my thoughts on a question I have been asked many times, placement of FX within the signal chain. In this video I discuss this very subjective topic and talk about not only some of the 'conventional wisdom' ideas of FX placement, but also demonstrate the sound of many FX in many different position within the chain. I really hope you all enjoy and please subscribe to my channel if you are so inclined... - เพลง
Thank you for making these Vids on HELIX so in Depth & easy to understand. Just got mine ... so trying to learn it so I move forth. 👍🙏GA
Meant to mention. Great videos and tutorials as usual. Really appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us.
Thank you so much and my pleasure :-)
Nice video. Its very cool to see how realistic the Helix is. Everything that behaves in real life behaves the same way within the Helix.
As you mention in many videos, having an understanding of the real amp and effect behaviors helps with setting things up on the Helix. I have used all sorts of setups, Amps and huge pedal boards and rack effects and effect loops. The helix nails it. Soooo much in this one box, it is amazing.
Thanks for the great explanation as always Jason!
Thanks so much SS :-) I could not agree more about what you say about the Helix here, such a great piece of gear!
Jason, in all possible ways, you are a gift to the modeling crowd and music as a whole. You have gone to great lengths to educate we Helix users and we are all better for it. It would take years of experimentation to get the knowledge you have laid out before us
You are right. A lot of us are "afraid" to jump into creating such a patch for fear of wasting time and creating a bad patch. LOL Your videos are so so inspiring and helpful. Thanks and God bless.
Thank you so much as usual and my pleasure Jerry :-)
Really interesting. This video has kind of proved me wrong on all I thought about FX placement. I always thought FX placement was pretty much set in stone and clearly it isn't.
Thanks Jason another cool video with lots of good usable information.
Thank you so much Mike and my pleasure :-) So glad you enjoyed the video!
dude you are helping my tone so much thank you for all your work!
Totally my pleasure and thank you Alex :-)
Thank you Jason, it was great !!
Thanks a lot for youre Helix-videos. Youre making a difference:)
Nice demonstration Jason. This underscores my philosophy of putting most effects before the amp to better simulate the "amp in the room" realism. Amp and speaker pretty much at the end. Boy are you ever correct about placement for variation in desired end sound.
Thank you Jerry :-)
Thanks Jason. This was interesting especially with the modulation stuff. Very true that it depends on what you are after or the style of music.
I’ve recently simplified a patch and ran it like my amp setup with all pedals into the front. I mostly play church/worship style music and couldn’t get some of the overtones in the Helix I get through my amp. I setup a patch running delays and reverbs into an amp on edge of breakup. Drives added in front of those as needed. Some of those overtones I want came back and so I was pleased it had some similarities. Although the after amp certainly works for most other styles:) Nice video!
Thank you so much :-) That is awesome that you found the tone you were looking for by experimenting, that is what it is all about :-)
Hi Jason,
I'm catching up with this tutorial a bit late, so I'm hoping my comment / question gets to you and makes sense.
Lately I've been experimenting with setting up my Helix and tube amp to replicate my old pedal board and amp - really as a 'test' of the Helix to see how close it gets to my previous pedal sound. As part of the setup I've been using the 4 cable method, and I've been refreshing my understanding of this approach as I go, to make sure I'm on the right track and applying the Helix in the same way as I used to with my pedal board (most commonly to place compression and drive pedals before the preamp of the amp, and modulation, delays and reverbs into the FX loop of the amp). At the same time I've also experimented with placing modulation effects up front, and so on.
I'm pretty clear on how to set up the cabling between Helix and amp. but what I've found is that there's a huge variety of (potentially very confusing) advice out there in relation to how the single Send/Return block or separate Send and Return blocks are used in the Helix signal path. Eg: the Helix 4CM template uses only one Send/Return block (with no real explanation of why this is an appropriate approach), while another Line 6 tutorial uses separate Send and Return blocks (again with explanations which are not particularly adequate). Then there are any number of alternative approaches in the forum discussions!
Rightly or wrongly, I've come to the view that separate Send and Return blocks will suit my approach best.
But I also thought that a tutorial on 4CM might be very helpful for people like me who are trying to set up Helix with a separate amp (rather than a modelled amp + cab or IR block). Or perhaps a specific topic like this might suit one of your new FAQ segments???
I hope all this rambling makes some kind of sense, and is something you could address without too much effort. Looking forward to your response.
Cheers,
Graeme Kirkwood
Great, thanks so much! 👍😎
Super Vid! Danke, Jason! :-)
Don't forget to try effects after the amp but before the cab!!
That makes no sense to me unless your going through a virtual fx loop in your amp block,
Delay + Reverb into crunchy amp, that‘s exactly my sound!
Jason I really enjoy your videos, this is a good explanation of just trial and error of placement and what sounds best to your ears. I do have a question that's been bugging me but I don't know if you would experiment it and that is using real amps and speakers. Example have a Marshall JCM 2000 TSL 100 with a marshall 4 x 12 cab. I'm running it in a 4 cm method. Just curious if you're going to do a video on that subject? I just don't want to get rid of my Tube amp for now.
Thank you Rob :-) Unfortunately I no longer own an actual amp anymore, so I have no real ability to do a 4CM type video. If I get my hands on an amp at some point, I will most certainly do one though!
Good tutorial as always. Would you be interested in looking at a patch for IEM silent stage setup?
Thank you so much :-) I received your email with the patch. I will try to get to it but have been pretty swamped as of late. I will do my best :-)
Another solid tutorial Jason! My preference with mod fx is to run them parallel unless for whatever reason I may want one mod fx feeding another. I'm not sure how many paths are available on the helix?
On my old 2101LE I could setup any combination of series/parallel fx config...really powerful, even in this day and age.
Thanks so much Dan :-) You can split each of the two paths into 2 on the Helix.
Jason, not sure you already discussed it somewhere else, but I believe it could be worth to mention where you would put pedal volume (including linear vs. log) as well as gain in the chain. Many thanks and again many thanks for your outstanding support!
Thanks so much for the kind words and as always my pleasure :-) I believe I discussed about Volume pedal placement in my video I did about Expression pedal use, but I am just going by memory, which isn't always very good...lol You can check it here: th-cam.com/video/XORLYHHQETs/w-d-xo.html
But it might not be a bad idea to do a part 2 to this video and cover that more in depth. Thanks :-)
Definitely my fault, Jason. I missed it and now I am on it, will save it and look at it asap! Ciao and looking forward to watching the next video.
No worries at all! It still might be worth a more in depth video :-) Thanks!
Hey Jason, Off subject but I wanted to get your impression regarding the tone of the Line 6 Powercab at very low volume levels. Your thoughts would be most appreciated.
I was very impressed with it at bedroom volume! The real beauty of the Helix and PC are that they sound fabulous even when turned down, IMO :-)
May be its just me, but I find it weird putting anything after the cabinet because that is not possible with real amps unless we are also modelling the mixing that happens to a mic'd cabinet. I will have a play and see if it makes a difference putting effects between the amp and the cab, or after the cab. I assume putting effects after the amp is the equivalent of putting the in a real amp's effects loop.
Yes it does seem odd at first, but I have found very minimal difference between putting them before or after the cab. As I mentioned in this video, for most FX it is really the interplay with the distortion that seems to have the biggest outcome on the sound of the FX. Give it a try and curious to hear what your findings are :-)
Hi sir tanks again what about trying to make the band TAUK guitarist tone cheers
My pleasure :-) I would have to listen to them as I have never heard there music before.
Great video Jason, what about something on split paths and using effects that way.
Thank you so much :-) I did a video a while back about Split paths and talk about FX in there. You can find it here:
th-cam.com/video/3V-DRvcqCiU/w-d-xo.html
Enjoy!
Thanks Jason, I will look at it today.
Great and hope you enjoy :-)
HI BUDDY.... do you use like a midi wham controller for the Helix? i am confused
Hey Whoppers :-) I am not sure I understand your question. I am using my Helix floor connected to my computer and using HX Edit to control it for the videos. Hope that helps :-)
Great video as always Jason. You always take the complex and break it down to make it easy. Roland/Boss used to put out great effects guide books each year to help people understand effects, what they do and where to put them to get certain sounds. Here is PDF copy of one of the many volumes out there : cms.rolandus.com/assets/media/pdf/BOSS_GuitarEffects_GuideBook_Vol17.pdf and ref to PHYSICAL pages 34-36 (not the page numbers shown in the corners) of this guide
Thank so much Stephen and thanks for the link :-)
@@JasonSadites my pleasure my friend
Jason I've been binging on your videos while waiting for my Helix to arrive - which UPS says is tomorrow. Super useful info you've got to help learn how to approach the device. Regarding this video I think a big part of the difference between pre/post distortion is because any distortion is also acting as a compressor. So for example on the delay, in both cases the echos we hear are distorted sounds. In the case of pre they are also compressed so they don't die off as fast. But post the echos are not compressed and fade away quicker. I bet you could get similar results pre/post by adjusting feedback differently between the two.
Thanks so much and glad you are enjoying the videos :-)
Jason, are you direct in to the DAW or are you through an FRFR mic’ed up ? Just curious.
What you are hearing in the videos is all direct to DAW...
@@justinTime077 Depends if you want the "amp in the room" sound. If your room hasn't been modelled, then it's a valid option. Not everyone has an Impulse Response of their studio!! So it's a valid question.
Some guys saying that you put the amp first then cabs then fx WTF?!?? Don't sound right to me!!! Not how it's done in the real world
So then you should order things the way you want. To say it is not done in the real world that way is incorrect. It very well can be done that way when adding FX at the mixdown stage. Many ways to accomplish things and you should do it the way that works best for you. But also realize many others work in other ways which are just as viable.