THE MOST IMPORTANT HELIX VIDEO I HAVE MADE | Gain Staging - Myths and Facts!!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
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I feel this may just be the most important Helix video I have made, and it dives deep into proper gain staging when creating our presets. Gain staging is a topic that there is a LOT of misinformation floating around about and I thought it was very important to set the record straight and show what they best practices are. I really hope you enjoy the video and find it useful in improving your presets.
As always, thanks so much for watching...
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Superb tutorial as always Jason. Videos like these show you are a cut above everyone else and that you really do care about the tech and not just trying to get likes or sell viewers stuff ;) keep on doing what you do. Your the best out there and are undeterred. Rock on.
At exactly 4:44 Jason is giving us all the finger. 😄 but yeah, these videos are really helping me get closer to realising the potential of my Helix.
Oh somebody finally caught me flipping everybody off 😂 So glad to hear you enjoy the videos!
There should be a meter that allows the user to see how the signal is traveling at each block
Superb video. Thanks!
My pleasure and glad you enjoyed!
In between the noise floor and clipping for any given block is the block’s sweet spot - the level at which it was designed to operate most effectively. Blocks that follow the amp model, where all the clipping is generally done before or in the amp model, are generally expecting a guitar level input or unity gain. If the amp channel volume is much higher than unity gain, then those blocks will be hit with a signal higher then they’re sweet spot. They may add additional clipping in the block that isn’t digital clipping, but sill might add distortion and harmonics that impact the tone coming out of the amp. That may be good or bad. But it at least changes how you have gain staged your distortion and saturation levels. These blocks often have a headroom control to allow them to operate with higher gain inputs. But there’s really no reason to not set the output of each block so that it is producing an input that fits the sweet spot of the next block in the signal path. The goal isn’t to have each block do with its intended to do the best that it can. So you might want to avoid distortion coming from delays, modulation effects or reverbs after the amp model and get the distortion from the blocks that are intended to do that function.
Just curious, did you watch the entire video?
@@JasonSadites yes
Ahh ok, was just wondering why the long comment basically repeating what I had discussed in the video.
This video totally debunks the complaints I hear that the Powercab isn’t loud enough.
Love these in-depth videos Jason! I think gain staging seems to confuse a lot of people. Always good to go over this stuff.
Thank so much Nick :-)
Agreed. It is also refreshing to hear someone who has the right information and can articulate how best to apply it to the Helix. Keep up the good work Jason.
Thank you kindly Nick :-)
What are those album covers in the middle of both shelves? I recognize the bottom one but I can't recall what it is. The outside ones are classic though. Great stuff!
Hi! On HELIX, If I record a double take guitar on a diffrent preset then I should reverse the phase in my DAW?
Hi master Jason. Can you please explain the different path signal on Helix. It makes me confused because people usen them in different ways and I don’t know how to make it well for me because I’m new in Helix.
You can combine the 2 paths into one big one to have more effects or you can use one for guitar and one for bass or a microphone like if you wanted to blend a real miced acoustic guitar with the dry signal out of the guitar jack. Search for more vids by Jason and Others about building patches and tones. Jason's vids are the best for any new helix user. The herod community is smazingm be sure to join the facebook helix user comminity page
@@sjsphotog Blending a real mic acoustic guitar with its electroacustic guitar jack is crazy! In a good way. Thanks for the idea and thanks God for Helix
thx for the brilliant video. For me the output meter in Helix is not really working it overdrives my USB DAW signal even it stay in green on the helix side. If you are interested in that effect I started a topic on the line 6 forum about it line6.com/support/topic/57727-usb-output-to-high-for-daw/
This video is soo good and clarifies such an important topic that it should be an official line 6 tutorial
This is one of the most important Helix discussions yet, in the entire community. People need to be generally informed about this material, if they're going to take ownership of this much pre- and post-processing. I know monetized YTers who dime CV on every preset, regardless whether it balances with their other presets. I have a bought preset where Input Pad Enabled is recommended, followed by a high-PR comp with high gain and NEGATIVE output level, into a Gain block, before the drive pedals and amp. I rebuilt it with half the moving parts. Thanks for wrapping all this in Cubase for visual support. This was well done.
Brilliant as always! You proved it with the Channel Volume not affecting tone in the Helix...I`ve never been sure of that part, because I grew up with tube amps having both a channel volume and a master volume. Changing either of these radically changed the tone, so setting up my tube amp involved first getting a rough volume level using the master volume, then tinkering with the channel volume to create a tone I like, finally fine-tuning channel versus the master volume. So with my tube amps, the channel volume was even the more important of the 2 for shaping tone. I had assumed that Helix amps would behave similarly. I had even accepted that normal non-master volume amp models (in real life) have both a master and a channel volume in all the Helix models, cuz you can do that sort of thing in the modelling world! But you proved that the Line6 boffins didn`t set up the channel volume in the tube amp way for whatever reason. Thanks for your ongoing efforts to improve my understanding of my Helix LT.
Yeah I just got my Stomp and haven't messed around all that much with it yet. The channel volume slider behaves much differently than I thought it would. It's kind of weird they named it what they did.
Hello.
Thank you very much for explaining this topic of such important profits and volumes so well.
I have the Line6 Pod Go... I suppose all of these concepts can also be applied here, right? .
Additionally, my daw is also Cubase 13 in my case.
Thank you very much 🙂
So, louder is more good, right? Just kidding 😂
Good video. I’m new to the helix world. Great explanation on setting up a chain. How does the volume knob on the helix floor effect all this?
Dont own a helix. But not many people talking about this on youtube. Tnx.
Once again, another video that proves Jason Sadites is the absolute Helix Master of all time. I love you and love my Helix!
Ahh, thanks so much Roberto :-)
Amen
OMG your are such a wizard. Really cool and instructive video.
Jason you are one crazy smart guy man! I am still trying to learn the basics of things so sometimes you talk so far over me I get overwhelmed but that doesn't mean I don't learn something. One of these days all these bits and pieces will fit together and the puzzle will be complete. But I "always" learn something... even if I do have to hit "replay" fifty times! My mind is swimming!
Wait so channel volume doesn't affect the tone - but I always thought that's what Master did... does raising/lowering Master change the dynamics of the amp then?
Channel volume doesnt affect the tone. It just controls the overall output of the block (in this case the amp) but it does not alter the tone. On the other hand, master volume of the amp, yes.. It will affect your tone just like "real-world" amps do. I would pay more attention to the gain/drive knob (same thing) of the amp. It's supposed to be the preamp gain, so I'll suggest to play with those two= Preamp gain (gain or drive - in some amps is named different) and the master volume. As an example, If you have a lower gain the tone will be cleaner. Higher gain, higher breakup = distortion. Master volume is how hard you'll drive the signal coming from the preamp section to the power amp or speakers. I hope it helps you :)
Do you have a patch for Jonny lang? Lie to me?
Hey Jason, out of curiosity does this video still stand up with the new updates?
Yes it all still applies :-)
Nice work! Clear and logical.
Thanks for a very informative video! So maybe a different issue - any tips for overcoming the perceived changes in tone when changing monitoring volume? At what volume do you monitor when setting up patches and how do you make sure it will translate reasonably well to a live setting? I understand you might need to tweak a bit according to venue etc. Just wondering if you have found a way of minimizing this to some degree?
Yes i have the same question. He does have a video all about monitoring and how it affects if you use a frdr or headphones or studio monitors... check it out in his last vids.
Thank you so much for your HX Stomp videos - they are incredibly helpful! I was wondering if you might be able to answer a couple of my questions please? I’m struggling to get the right preset volumes for my intended application of the preset:
I use the HX Stomp for bass and have my presets set up with the following prefixes for for use in two different ways:
BFX: these presets are usually effects with no amp or cab which I use when I’m connected to my amp via the L Mono output.
BDIR: these presets usually contain an amp and cab and are used for recording direct through the HX Stomp as an audio interface via the USB interface channel 1 (dry) and channel 5 (wet), or recording via the L Mono output into a mic/DI preamp to my PCs audio interface.
The issue I have is that the volumes are all different of each preset and are not at the required volume for the application I require.
My questions:
1. For my BFX presets do I want to essentially make the output volume of the preset/HX Stomp match the input volume so that the level of signal I put into the HX Stomp, from another pedal, or directly from my bass, is equal to the output volume so it applies the effects but it doesn’t alter the signal volume given that my amp will amplify this signal - if so, is this achieved by simply adjusting the volume of the output block on each BFX preset? I can do this by making the channel 5 (processed) signal match the channel 1 (dry) signal in my DAW.
2. For my BDIR presets do I need to tweak the output level of these so that I am achieving the “ideal” recording level when connected via USB and recording channel 5 (processed) into my DAW so for example -18dBfs average in my DAW? This would make the recording level ideal when using it as an interface but if I was then to use the L Mono Out into my pre-amp the signal would probably be much higher that it would for say my BFX presets. I’m not sure this is a problem as I’d just adjust the gain on the mic m/DI preamp accordingly. I probably just need to commit to either recording via the HX Stomp as an interface or my mic/DI pre-amp.
I was just wondering really if I am correct in thinking that you simply need to adjust the output block level accordingly for what I’m trying to achieve level-wise for recording presets and also I don’t want a massive volume increase when switching on HX BFX presets in my signal chain so essentially the level in matches the level out and this is the same level as when the HX Stomp is in bypass mode.
Many thanks for any help! Sorry for the long message.
Super helpful!!🎉
Best explanation of gain staging ever! Well done!
Thank you and glad you enjoyed 😀
I love all the rock and distorted stuff but what about clean/Jazz tones or mild overdriven sound like John Scofield
Hey Jason, I love your videos! Especially this one! Great! I have a guitar with P90 Ceramic Pickup. On my guitar the low end notes like the low E is sounds very muddy! I need your suggestion, if you don't mind, I want my guitar to have low end, rather bassy! Thank you.
Thank you for sharing the knowledge. Helix is a game changer for sure, and when its tweaked up correctly its unbelievably good. So thanks for pulling out the pain and flattening the steep curve.
Can I please ask two questions; In the last part of the video where you were referring to using the levels of the output block, to adjust signal volume, is there anything that differs when adjusting this between the standard output block level, and the output level in the Helix's Power Cab tab?
Second Question; Do you think there is a detectable difference in tone, squishy tube like response, and overall colour when using a Power Cab hooked up to a Helix through either 1/4 inch / XLR or the Digital L6 cable. Very interested to see what you think. Can you test it - could it be a video? If so could you please also touch on the pros and cons of using the Helix's output levels vrs using the built in PC+ input levels on the actual PC+ cab. I do hope these questions are seen as relevant and as elements of "Gain Staging" between Helix and PC+ and that this is the correct place to ask. Thanks buddy, I'm staying tuned. Cheers. 52 Tele (reissue), Helix floor, PC+212, rocken the jungles of Borneo
Totally makes sense. Works like a "real-world" (what does that mean any more? LOL) situation. Except that my experience with amplifiers is that the tone changes drastically when changing the channel volume, so I set the overall level with the Master. Nbd, but surprising. Just need to keep it in mind.
So where should I have the master volume knob on my Helix set?
I keep mine on full.
@@JasonSadites OK. Mine was fine about 10am but I know all my presets are too hot. Looking to address that with 3.50
Awesome explanation and presentation! I love the way you backup and and clearly identify the "why" aspects of best practice gain staging to minimize the noise floor and maximize volume within safe levels. Kudos for the in depth analysis of channel versus master volume. Other youtubers have said the exact opposite as far as which effects tone. This clears up a lot of confusion for me.
The power cab seems to be supplied with all speakers on -15db. I set the all to flat and it is much louder as a result.
That was really helpfull!!! Thank you :)
This is a HUGE help!! Thanks for breaking it down and making it easy to understand!! Pure gold!!
Ty Jason. you again made complex things seem obvious :D
Click-baity title? Sure, but kudos to you for highlight this issue, disproving myths using the scientific method (yes, for realises!) and providing an excellent starting point for people to self-educate. To be honest, this should be an embedded pop-up within HX Edit, it would save people a lot of (clipping) headaches.
On that subject, I do enjoy tape saturation and I'm experimenting with some plugins but, is there anything within the helix's blocks that actually simulates that? (Perhaps even the tape echoes, with the delays off???)
Excellent video, thanks for busting the myths :)
Brilliant!
Much of this I think I sort of knew or suspected but so good to have it confirmed, explained and demonstrated so clearly.
A million and nine thanks.
This is a great video!
It confirms what I always thought. It is a shame that there is so much confusion and division in this area, which in my opinion is incorrect.
Holy clickbait Batman!
Keep it metal buddy 🤘
Why is it click bait?
@@JasonSadites The title. "THE MOST IMPORTANT VIDEO EVER! WATCH OR DIE!" 😀 I really enjoyed the video, very detailed and well spoken
Glad you enjoyed it, not click bait in the least. I truly believe it is the most important video I have made and it also clearly states it is about Gain Staging....so not click bait at all. I also never mentioned anything about dying as you suggest.
@@JasonSadites Can't I be a little melodramatic? Haha
It is very important, you hit the nail on the head with this one 👍
KevinPuumala I had the same first knee-jerk response to the title. 😄 Although I guess once you put it through the logical Jason filter, It’s literally the most important topic - nothing more, nothing less.
Nothing negative, Jason - it’s not clickbait coming from you, but from other content creators, it could be hyperbolic, in a humorous way. 🤘🤘🙏
Thanks Jason. A few weeks ago I started leveling all my presets/snapshots to be in the same region on the mastering meter in Cubase. I build my base presets all with 4 snapshots like you do mostly: Clean, Push, Overdrive and Lead. Although the first 3 snapshots have the same level on the meter, the overdriven snapshots seem to be louder (to my ears) than the clean presets. The Lead snapshot is always louder, because it's supposed to be so for me. Is there something I'm doing wrong, or do I fool my ears ? The meter says they're all 3 on the same level............
Hi John,
I use the LUFS meters for this purpose but regardleaa of what the meters say, you do need to do a final check with your ears to make sure that things sound and feel the way you want for your particular situation :-) Hope that helps!
Amazing video. Thanks so much.
That was so instructing... thanks a lot Jason ❤ Do you think it's a good thing to raise the volume up to the end on the Helix volume button while modifying our presets ? Thanks
Thank you....yes I always keep my Master volume knob on full.
@@JasonSadites Thanks a lot sir !
@@alexousky my pleasure :-)
Your music room decor is on point
Thanks so much Brett :-) Glad you like it!
Excellent presentation Jason. Very insightful and informative. I really enjoyed this one!
Thank you kindly and really glad you enjoyed the video :-)
Outstanding, I always learn.
Great video! I have a question... I read in some places that a preset should have the same volume as the bypassed input. Is that true?
Thanks so much! No I don't agree with that unless it is being done for a very particular purpose. I talk at length in this video as to why it may nor be what you want to do.
@@JasonSadites Great, thanks. I love all your HELIX videos.
Awesome content! Thanks a lot
Interesting that you mention you don’t run into clipping within the Helix but post-amp. I’ve found several delays and modulation effects (Bubble Vibrato) often exhibit digital clipping before the final output stage if they’re hit too hard from the previous items in the chain. I would have expected you to cover this in depth because honestly, this is where I find most of the gain staging issues. It would also be helpful to mention that the 2.9 update gave us output meters to have a better-than-nothing sense of how much headroom we have left.
You should probably watch the video I just put out today, which is part 2 to this video.
Thanks!
Don Cherry Approved!
Excellent 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I have a slightly off topic question. What is your chair brand/model? It seems good for guitar playing.
No problem, I did a video on this very recently :-) th-cam.com/video/c8yIWzchozk/w-d-xo.html
@@JasonSadites Thank you Jason, I must have missed that one, will check it out!
Great content!
Thanks!
You are a great teacher!
Hey Jason! Great video and thanks for doing it. There have been other Helix TH-camrs saying presets should be as close in gain to the bypassed tone (no blocks) as possible. Does this make any sense to you?
Thanks so much :-) And no that doesn't make any sense to me at all. As I mentioned in the video you want to have the best signal to noise ratio as possible, so they louder you can have the preset to match what you need for it's final destination is what you want. It won't do any harm to keep it low like that if that is what you need, but it will not work for everything and actually potentially be very bad for some situations. As proven in the video it doesn't affect the quality of the tone of the preset if you turn it up louder as long as you don't distort it.
@@JasonSadites Thanks for the reply. I agree, it makes no sense especially after watching the proof in your video. Thanks again for everything!
@@JasonSadites Hey Jason, just to quickly follow this up - I played with my band the other night and found another really bad thing about the lower signal presets in that there was no way to get any feedback out of my Powercab. Usually, those exact same presets at the higher levels would feedback like a real amp but it was impossible to get anything out of the new lower levels. All this to say, you are 100% percent right that we have to get the maximum signal from our presets (without clipping) to get the most out of the Helix. Thanks again, Jason! Jeremy
Really useful video. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you!!
Interesting indeed. I use a 4 db gain block near the chain end for solos, so I'm glad it's not colouring according to your video Jason. Now I think a 4db increase is good compared to my other snapshots in the preset, however sound guys often comment my lead boost is not enough and they have been suggesting for me try maybe 6 db because for the most part they need increase my FoH mix during solos so stand out more. I tried 6 db but it's so much louder in volume on stage (mind you I have the PC+ pointing at my head). Even the band at rehearsals say I need more lead volume, but in my standing space, its very loud LOL.
You could also check your midrange EQ. Volume doesn't matter much if it isn't cutting through the mix.
Yeah, you have to dial it in for what works for you :-)
Save an FX block and boost the output as part of your lead snapshot.
@@MoveUpMedia Is it the same as using a gain block though and having the gain block as a boost? It's boosting output.
@Scott - yeah. If you program that parameter change into your snapshot it’s identical to just turning up the volume post everything. It saves you a block and is an easy way to transparently boost. Now, of course, you need to be aware of the overall output at what will now be your loudest and ensure that the PA or Powercab can handle that as your hottest signal.
What’s the guitar far right?
It is a Yamaha SA2200 :-)
Awesome video as always!
Thanks so much Nate :-)
Very thorough and well-done! Thanks so much!