Guitar Electronics 5 - Output Loading / 50's wiring
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 มี.ค. 2014
- Where you connect your tone control together with the volume pot can affects some noteworthy changes in the dynamics of your controls. Here we demonstrate the differences between coil loading of the tone pot and output loading (often referred to as modern wiring vs 50's wiring).
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This is the best explanation and demonstration about the differences between modern and 50's wiring. Thanks a bunch for the video.
Herman Carvalho I was about to say the same thing. It’s very professionally done!
Ikr
Great video. Just one point, people might get confused when you say there's a treble boost. You can't get a treble boost or bass boost for that matter when using a passive circuit. What you hear is a bass frequency cut or roll off, this gives the impression of a treble boost. You would have to use an active circuit to get a treble or bass boost.
wow, so you made that neat little box with all possible electronics wiring options inside?
so glad that experts like you who put countless hours into their passion are sharing their knowledge!
I was tryna think of that in a guitar lol
Finally a great explanation of how they actually work. Thanks!
I have to agree that this is the best demonstration too, I'm in the process of upgrading an Epiphone ES-339 with new pickups & wiring harness & was trying to decide which way to wire it. Have watched a bunch of "before & after" videos & read lots of opinions but nothing so clearly showed the differences in tone & how the controls affect it. It's going to be modern for me. Thanks. By the way, it's not often you see a video with no dislikes, I don't think this one ever will get one because it was perfect for what it was supposed to do.
this should be the number one result for searching for this stuff. unfortunately, too many people like to trust their ears and their egos instead of physics. ironically, the physics is much simpler and easy to digest. you definitely need more subscribers.
Very illuminating! I just did a video about various ways of connecting tone controls and hadn't really expected this difference.
I'll refer viewers to this video in my description. Thanks!
And of course, I'd enjoy the heck out of seeing how you built that substitution test device. Bravo Zulu. Thanks - Lumpy
The best video on this topic
Thanks for doing a no-nonsense video about this. Great demonstration on this and the Treble Bleed circuit. Kenneth
Love the entire series of your vids, being able to see that graphic also helps.
I have noticed in a few guitars (tele and p90 guitar) that when switching from standard/modern wiring to 50's wiring that there is a notable bass cut in 50's wiring, even with the tone and volume all the way up. I installed a push/pull pot in both guitars to switch between the two types and its quite clear in both guitars.
I actually like having the capability to switch between the two whenever, always makes for an interesting playing experience.
This is fantastic. I've used 50s wiring for years and years but I've never had such a clear demonstration of why I like it. Subscribed!
Great video. This solves a mystery for me. I had rewired my Squier Tele with 50's wiring, and I was puzzled as to why, with the tone rolled off, the sound still seemed so bright with the volume turned down. I thought that I had wired things wrong, but now I know.
Another excellent video. Particularly good demonstration of the dynamic interaction of controls in the '50s wiring.
You know I would love to see you do more of this with other guitar gear.. the frequency analysis along with tweaks in variable is awesome... I would love to see some pedals and other gear put thru this analysis and dissection... you are giving us clear insight to the components of tone here... very very good.
wow, another great video!! shows just exactly what I wanted to see & hear!! well done!
FINALLY THE NAKED TRUTH .....and not tons of garbage opinions on the usual forums...
Nice video, nice explanation, nice demo, and nice Epiphone Genesis.
Great series
I will kill for that box !
Love that 50's set up
Outstanding video, thank you!
very well done. I get the difference now
Very fine video thanks!!!
Wow, super video
Great illustration of the tone stack effects, as always. I'd enjoy seeing an A:B comparison of how the curves differ in Treble Bleed vs Output Loading. ie, is it essentially the same final effect we just move the knee as we vary the R and C values? Thanks - Lumpy
great video very scientific jeje
Wow... Thanks!
Very informative video. Thank you very much!! I put 50's wiring in my guitar a few years ago. I love it, but I never understood the electrical process. Slightly off-topic, but is this difference in loading the same effect exhibited by the use of a pulldown resistor on the input of an effects pedal? I noticed in my own experiments it made a big difference in bass response.
Great video (and the rest of the series). I have two questions:
1. When converting from Modern to ‘50s, is it really necessary to move the cap on the tone pot lug (I don’t see how cap before or after resistance to GND makes a difference)?
2. I’m thinking of converting my ES345 with a Varitone to ‘50s; in you opinion is this going to ruin the notch filtered Varitone settings? If so I guess I can put in push/pull pots to switch between the wiring types.
Thanks.
You also change a fixed rc network ( vol+cap) to variable. As you turn down the vol it gradually shorts the cap. And in the 50's they had both wiring, makes me believe 50's was a goof-up. Electricly it doesn't make sense.
Thanks for the great videos.
With 50s wiring I use reverse audio taper to mitigate the huge drop between 10 and 8; makes it feel perfect. Have you tried it?
funny coincidence... I watched an uncle doug video and determined this exact thing.
@@rikeverglade6429 please share which video. I’d love to see.
Great video series! I am interested in the switching device you are using. Is this something you constructed yourself? I'd like to construct something similar and I was wondering how you got the linear/audio taper switch working and the switching pot values?
Thanks Arjan - The test box is one I built myself for use both in teaching as well as testing. Each knob you see is actually connected to a geared shaft which drives 8 separate pots for volume and for tone (each 4 linear, 4 audio). Then the switches engage the selected values and tapers in their respective wiring arrangements.
I will be doing a follow up video on the tools and methods some time in the coming months, where it should be much more clear how the system works.
Thanks for the explanation! I’m curious to know what difference does it make to wire the capacitor on to the middle leg of the tone pot as opposed to the outer leg where it should be according to the schematic for the 50’s wiring.
It does not influence the frequency response, but middle leg to ground slightly decreases RF noise.
Hello another difference between output loading vs coil loading could be output impedance from your guitar circuit? since you are loading the output differently...if that is right that could also affect the swelling curve of volume since as you change the resistance in the pot you affect the output impedance and the voltage the input circuit "sees" could you do a volume swelling comparison with tone pots at maximun please? just to find out if the volume curve swell becomes affected from output-coil loading? great vids!
the vol pot has a very fast roll off in 50s wiring, could that be compensated by using a linear pot instead of a log or would that make it worse`?
We need a clear video enabling us to understand the options and effects of bass pickups and Pots.
I have P-J type Ibanez TMB30 bass guitar with 3 knobs: two knobs for neck and bridge pickups and one knob for standard tone control. Two volume knobs B500K with linear tapers soldered as independent volume knobs, tone control with D500K taper on output side after volume knobs.
So I noticed the odd behavior of volume knobs. When the tone control is roll-on to CW, volume knobs works as usual. But when I roll-off the tone control to CCW, volume knobs turns off the pickups almost instantly, at 8 or even 9 value.
Why it happens? Is it possible that my volume pots are broken?
How does cap value effect turning down the volume with tone rolled down a bit?
sounds sick. i wonder if there will be a way to do this with a bypass mode, perhaps with a push-pull pot? i have no idea. i have a phase pull on my tone pot... idk.
You could definitely use a push/pull to switch fro 50s to modern wiring. Just put a the wire from the tone on the middle lug of a switch, and then put one of the outputs on the outer lug of the vol pot, and the other output on the middle lug.
Bump this video is outstanding but I have a push/pull and can switch between standard and 50's-and even full up there is a notable bass cut. How is this possible?
What would the schematic be for the module that you are using?
Great video! Do you find that there is any difference between modern and 50's wiring, when tone controls are on 10? Thanks, Esben
Yes, with the tone on 10 as you roll the volume down, though not as notable as when the tone is rolled back as well. The only case in which there is no difference between the two is when your volume is full up.
+A2Guitars Thank you for your answer :-)
Stupid question perhaps, but would a treble bleed on 50s wiring be excessive?
So ?? In my opinion??? Just go 50’s wiring and forget splitting a coil? To clean it up?........or do you recommend both?
Hello! Great video series!
I was wondering if by "modern vs 50s wiring" you're referring to these particular wirings:
www.seymourduncan.com/blog/tips-and-tricks/lespaulwiring/
What I still don't understand is the difference between 'coil loading' and 'output loading' in terms of where and how you connect the caps. Is it the fact that on the 50s wiring, the signal (hot) from the pickup goes into lug 1 of the volume pot, THROUGH the pot and THEN out to the cap through lug 2, and that on the modern wiring the signal (hot) from the pickup is connected DIRECTLY to the cap and goes right through on to the tone pot, and 'avoiding', as it were, the volume pot?
Thank you!
Best regards!
Hi David - liked the video. I had a question though. Around 5:29 in the video you turned a knob in the upper right of your console and the tone changed some more. What does that know do? Is it related to the resistance or capacitance in the circuit?
second question. is there a simple fix to the circuit to keep the best of 50s wiring and modern wiring? what could be down if you tried to keep 50s wiring but wanted to have funktioning tone pot? i am aware of modern wiring plus treble bleed cap.