Electrical engineer (and guitarist) here. I think the simplest way to describe the electrical difference between 50's and modern is that, with 50's wiring, the tone input precedes the volume control. With modern wiring volume comes first, then the tone. If you think about the volume control as the primary control, the tone conditioning comes either before (50's) or after (modern) the volume. That's not to say that the controls are independent of each other. Tone is a function of the value of all of the capacitor(s) and resistor(s) in the circuit. Both pots are variable resistors and their settings affect frequency response. But with modern wiring, the volume pot directly controls the output of the pickup.
it is even much simpler to explain : volume and tone controles in series ( 50's wiring ) or parallel ( modern wiring ) . With fifties wiring the cap and tone controle is connected to the output of volume controle ( in series) . So when you turn down the volume , it reduces the amount of signal that goes to the tone controle .The volume pot controles the amount of signal going to the tone pot . Interaction between the knobs to play with . In modern wiring the cap and tone is connected to the input of volume pot ( parallel ) , the bleed off to the tone controle is always at maximum , regardless of the volume pot setting . Volume and tone controles in series or parallel , that's it .
Now I'm wondering how my Gretsch Streamliner is wired.. That could be a great opportunity to have the tone control in parallel connected to the volume pots of the pickups, but wired in series to the master volume pot..
I usually swap all of my guitars to 50s wiring if it doesn’t already have a treble bleed. It’s no extra parts, an easy swap, and makes the guitar sound better to me, in general.
I ended up swapping my audio taper pots for linear taper ones on my volume pots. For me, the audio taper volume sweep range was too narrow, as the volume drop was too steep once you drop below 7. I play straight into the amp with 50s wiring, and swapping the volume pots for linear taper gave me some of what you were finding with treble bleed wiring.
I really like 50's because i can get bright and clean sound when i roll volume back, darker sound when roll tone back, clean bright more single coil type sound when rolling both back to same level.
The Flying V triangle knobs do a similar thing, and i use that in a couple songs to avoid dancing on pedals. Single channel amp set good and hot, neck pickup on full, tone all the way off, bridge volume on about 2 or 3... i can go from thick crunchy lead to spanking bright clean by flipping the selector switch by feel while singing and not having to look down. I love it. Also, the treble bleed in the pro ii tele changed my mind on treble bleed. Love it.
Thanks! My OCD will kick in and I’ll be wanting to open the control cavity on each of my 70+ guitars now to check the wiring…… plus write them all down for reference!
Probably one of the best videos out there explaining AND showing the difference in wiring types! I'm a 50's Gibson wiring style guy, even on single coils..... xD
Thank you for demonstrating the difference between all 3 wirings. I did not know what the treble bleed do, now I know. For what it is worth, I use 50's wiring with my humbucker guitars, I tried it and it was more pleasing to my hears and I like the control of the knobs.
Thanks Dylan, great explanation. I'm not sure if this qualifies as a wiring style but with 2 volume 2 tone guitars "decoupling" type wiring gives you almost infinite blending options as the 2 volume controls are independent. With this wiring its pretty much required to add a treble bleed to each control. One thing I dislike about the standard wiring of 2 volume 2 tone guitars is that if you turn the volume of one pickup off (in the middle position of the selector) the other pickup is off too. Decoupling fixes this as both are independent.
Dylan, my dad just passed away and we had been listening to an old Lynyrd Skynard song called Mr. Banker a lot recently. We loved hearing slide in songs but that was never my focus during my guitar lessons. Anyways, I wish I could go back and relive our moments in the car listening to Mr. Banker. My goal is to become proficient enough with slide to play it all the way. I'd love to see your version of it, thanks for your vids.
Great work! This is hands down the most clear and concise explanation/demonstration of wiring types I've seen, and I've watched a lot of them on TH-cam!
This is great. Glad to see you doing these videos. You’re a fantastic player. I’m new to 50’s wiring. I agree that they all have their up and downside.
good info but we really need to remember that we have a pickup selector switch too. for rhythm to lead and back again, flicking the switch rather than using the knobs can also work.
Dylan, thanks so much for explaining the differences/nuances of the 3 main wiring configs. I thought I understood more than I actually did, but... nope! I've wired a couple of my electrics with a TB circuit and it's what I prefer...less to remember and the guitar reacts the way it's intended to.
I swapped to 50s wiring on a LP about 2 days ago and it's absolutely jarring trying to figure out what the hell is going on between my volume and tone. I can see the pros but just trying to... use it while playing is weird so far, but that's after 15 years of modern wiring usage. The immediate things I see are a huge boost in brightness and my neck pickup sounds almost like a strat, which I actually like. The negatives, which may have to do with my new audio taper pots, is that I feel I only get a useble range between 8-10, and it seems like I have 2-4 volume controls now as the tone acts like a volume knob, instead of 1-2 depending on pickup selection. So I kind of am just throwing random knobs sometimes but I'm new at it - we'll see if I keep it.
If you're a big fan of vintage fuzz cleanup then I'd avoid treble bleeds with no resistor, makes the cleans very bright. Other than that you really can't go wrong with any.
You’re a fantastic player AND educator. Because of a different video of yours I can now play behind the slide; thanks to this one I’ll be messing with my controls more!
Your technique is ridiculously good. I just discovered you this morning on your Duane tone video, and look forward to exploring your library. Excellent work. 👍
Damn, so the tone knob actually serves a purpose 😂 This video made me really open my mind, i think ill try a hybrid of this on my Les Paul, vintage witing on the neck and modern on the bridge, must have some cool applications. Thanks man, awesome video!
Firstly, great playing man. You sound killer. I tried a treble bleed circuit a few years ago and hated it. I found as I turned down the bass the mid frequency’s were turned down but treble remained so all I really was doing was getting a thinner tone. I haven’t tried 50’s wiring so maybe that’s the one for me. All my guitars have standard wiring (I think) and I use the volume and tone controls often.
I have an es-339 that I put a set of p-rails in with triple shot surrounds. They let you switch each pickup from single coil to p90 to series or parallel. The circuit is then wired to permit me to select between parallel or series, in or out of phase. I did it because I was just curious to know what differences there were and what to make of it all for myself. Well, having lived with it for 7 or 8 years, I'd say it was and interesting experiment. I personally don't think it matters much in truth. I could write a thesis here but I can actually summarize pretty easily. It doesn't matter much, not enough that anyone but you, the person flicking the switches, would notice. That was my ultimate conclusion. The guitar works perfectly, I'm happy with it as is and it will remain thus. If people want to find out for themselves, then go for it. The Triple Shot rings combined with push pull pots will give you virtually every permutation possible. There's no magic though, prepare yourself for that. It's a fair chunk of change to satisfy ones curiousity but it will scratch that itch and put it to rest forevermore. No magic, no secret tone, no mojo. Just a fun experiment. I like to show it to people that start speaking about special guitars that famous individuals own. It usually ends debates. Some folks believe in magic and even when provided with evidence, a real guitar, they make excuses and won't accept. More positively, when I'm teaching folks to play, I demonstrate how various pickup combinations sound and it's a great teaching tool.
Well done , seen many try but fail . Discovered the fifties wiring when I got a fifties Les Paul jr ; the controles worked differently to what I was used to . What's going on here ? This was long before internet and I was oblivious on the subject . It works for me , in particular for single pickup guitars , changed the wiring to 50's style on several of them . It gives me three basic sounds to play with (I do not use pedals) , not possible with modern wiring . Setting guitar volume and tone at about 7, then the (tube)amp is dialled in for a standard sound , not too loud , eq normal , just beneath the sweet spot , the saturation point . The basic starting point . Then turning up the volume to 10 the sound will get louder of course and more distorted but also darker : from "clean" to growling . Then turning up the tone knob to 10 makes it scream . Clean to growling to screaming , back and forth . The treble bleed is a rabbit hole you can get lost in . Loosing treble when turning down the volume has never bothered me . Get used to it or better still : use it to your advantage . F.e. the Gibson 57 Classic Plus bridge pickup can sound harsh. A matter of taste of course but it does to my ears . One can turn down the tone pot but turning down the volume pot can make it sound better as well .
Thanks for explaining the differences here. I've always known that different types of wiring reacted differently to your volume and tone controls, but never knew which and exactly why. I do know that I have a Tele that was wired as "treble bleed" when I bought it years ago and I didn't like it. I actually prefer losing some high end as I roll off my volume, so I had the capacitor removed. I think it's wired modern now, which is how I think most of guitars are. But I'd have to check. This makes me want to open them all up now!
the other con of treble bleeds is you just might not have enough space to wire it in if you have a complex push pull system going or the cavity is just really small. They also can change the taper of your volume pot
Thanks, I learned a lot. How to get that Motown rhythm sound - wire it old style. I have an es335 does exactly that with the "woman" sound right at the end of the tone pot travel. That sounds like 50s and it gives a whole lot of different "colours" done that way. This is all real shit with semi-hollow guitars though. Some lovely playing!
i am have my bare knuckle aftermath 8 string directly wired to output jack. Is there anything to increase it's raw signal any further? No worries, it has plenty of 'UMPH'. Perhaps something to enhance the signal without batteries? Would thicker wire achieve this? Or how about a big chunk of metal or magnet? An accelerator perhaps? Some passive circuit for slight boost?
50's wiring works much better with separate volume and tone pots for each pickup. For single volume and tone guitars, modern wiring with SD treble bleed curcuit. I only have one guitar with modern wiring without a treble bleed, but that's EMG's 81/85 in a LP with 2 volume and 2 tone pots. Every guitar needs different stuff.
Interesting. I'll now try 50s-wiring on the bridge PU controls of my LP and keep the modern version on the neck. I hated the original treble bleed circuit on a newer Tele, made it impossible to get some old loved sounds...
Oh man, I'm torn between 50's wiring and treble bleed. I have a couple guitars with treble bleeds which work great, but my main dilemma is my Les Paul which I've actually wired up with both lol. It's difficult to get a good clean up out of it without killing too much volume, so I'll have to give both a try. On one hand I like the idea of simply backing the volume off just a little to get a clean sound, but on the other I may want to retain the better controllability with the tone control. I guess I'll just have to play around and see which one works best for me.
I like to use a "bidirectional" tone wiring when there is a single master tone control. This involves a 1meg *linear* pot, with the wiper (middle lug) connected to either the input (modern) or middle ('50s) lug of the master volume control. One outside lug of the tone pot goes to a standard-value tone cap (generally .022uf) and ground, while the other outside lug goes to a cap about 1/5 to 1/4 the value, then ground (e.g., .0047 to .0056uf). This provides for two different rolloffs, one in each direction from the midpoint. If it's a dual-volume/tone guitar, I'll change the tone cap for the bridge pickup to the smaller value, since I don't know of *any* player who would switch to their bridge PU for a dark and dull tone. (Indeed, it kind of drives me nuts that companies have stuck to the what's-good-for-the-goose-is-good-for-the-gander approach to tone controls all these years, just to save a few pennies on tone cap inventory.) The smaller-value cap results in a "rounding the edges" when turned down, as opposed to dulling the sound. It takes a little getting used to, and I've had difficulty finding 1meg pots with a center detente, but it is easy to use, and one of the perks is that "pinky wah" (rolling from max treble cut to brighter with your pinky finger) is much easier to achieve with only half the rotation required. The idea for this came from a 40 year-old suggestion from DIY guru Craig Anderton. Now, I have to note that I have only used this with modern wiring, so I can't speak to how useful it might be with '50s wiring. I like a sparkly sound so I generally wire a treble-bypass cap into my volume pots. One trick I will sometimes use is a bigger-than-suggested value for the volume bypass cap, like 1000, or even 1500pf. What this does is transform the volume pot into a sort of bass-cut control, between settings of 10 and maybe 6-7. Below that, it behaves like a volume pot. This is handy for a bridge humbucker pickup where you might want a thinner sound at times, but don't want to wire up, or futz around with, a bass contour control, like one finds on some Reverend and G&L guitars. Those controls are handy, but this trick packs several functions into one control.
Put a treble bleed in my strat when i did some work to it. Worked great. So, i got curious and tried the exact same scheme on my sg, killed to volume. Hahaha i just wanted to see how the same cap and resistor sounded on a conpletly differnt set up. Then, i could have also used the wrong resistor that time. I never really looked into it, becuase if i ever try again, ill look into what works with and how to eith an sg or les paul, some time later. All this was a few years ago.
Yes, loosing treble does not make sense on the "green table" - but I really love clean tones and this treble-bleed - constantly turning down the volume to 10 makes harsh single coils (archtops, semi-acoustics, Tele) really sweet. It's like an EQ. And the pedalboard get's more lightweight. IMHO
I like 50s wiring. I convert all my Les Pauls to it and also swap out the 300k linear vol. pots that gibson uses to 500k aud. pots. My Kramer Beretta is the only guitar I've had with a treble bleed. Didn't like it because I felt it didn't clean up enough by rolling the volume back until I had lost almost all my volume, (maybe because it was a vol. only guitar?) (also maybe because i dont play at gig level volumes) so I removed the treble bleed
The pickups have to be wound correctly with the right wire, the right turns per layer, the right tension on the wire, magnets, ferris parts, and the correct parts, only then 50s wiring will be clearly superior to the treble bleed thing.
from my expeirience i felt like 50s wiring for me made it so that when i rolled off my volume it would be softer but not much quiter, when normal wiring seems to kind of actually lower the volume. not sure if i am actually a fan of the 50s wiring that much.
In my opinion, 50's wiring adds some top end bite even when all knobs are on 10 as compared to "modern" wiring. Any Gibson style guitar (humbuckers or P90s) I use, I always wire 50's style because of the top end and clarity it adds. It does affect the way the pots respond or taper compared to modern.
Interesting, I was always under the impression they sounded the same with all knobs on 10. I’ll have to do the swap on one of my guitars again and listen for it!
Seems to me that the 50's wiring was a learning curve for Gibson as the modern wiring seems to be more workable so they changed to that. I have put treble bleed on my (modern wired) Tele with a resistor and it works great.
Fantastic video. I make my sg with 50's wiring but when i turn the neck volume all the way down i still hear my guitar ( low but is there).is this normal?
DYLAN ADAMS, Try to make a video lesson about the 50's wiring getting that Clapton Cream WOMAN Tone. I think he rolled down the volume to 7 and the tone to 3. You can make a Comparison of Modern wiring WOMAN TONE compared back to back with 50's wiring WOMAN TONE in the video. Also I think Duane Allman used 50's wiring because his Les Paul was a 1959 which for slide playing he would also roll down the volume to 7 and the tone to 0 to 3 settings. The 50's wiring makes a difference how the volume pot is setting is at also because its interacting with the tone cap.
That’s hard for me to say since I almost never use that position, but so far I’ve stuck with 50s wiring on Les Pauls anyway for vintage accuracy so I’d probably stay with 50s wiring for that situation too. I’ll have to try treble bleed on an LP and see how it does!
Do you think you would like the SG with either 50s or TB wiring? As you acquire more guitars, do you feel having all three is better than your favorite two types?
I had a paragraph written and decided against it. You can always consider an expression pedal for your volume control needs. That's a very shortened and painfully underwhelming comment to a decidedly complex discussion.
If only it were that easy ;) The reason this is a thing is because guitar not only sounds different with tone/volume adjustments, but reacts differently too.
I love your videos,, thanks. I have a question for you,, I’ve always heard that treble bleed doesn’t work well with fuzz pedals.. do you have any experience with that?
Thanks! So I’ve used my treble bleed-equipped Mulecaster with fuzz plenty of times and haven’t had any issues, but I haven’t used the PRS with fuzz yet so it’s hard to say. I can see how that one may be a little extra thin/bright, since a lot fuzzes naturally have thinner/brighter sound as you roll back your guitar volume
50s is the way to go if you like to use the volume to control your dynamics. Modern wiring is terrible. 50s has a problem when you include tone cut. Modern has a problem when you reduce volume. I use 50s in all my guitars.
Electrical engineer (and guitarist) here. I think the simplest way to describe the electrical difference between 50's and modern is that, with 50's wiring, the tone input precedes the volume control. With modern wiring volume comes first, then the tone. If you think about the volume control as the primary control, the tone conditioning comes either before (50's) or after (modern) the volume.
That's not to say that the controls are independent of each other. Tone is a function of the value of all of the capacitor(s) and resistor(s) in the circuit. Both pots are variable resistors and their settings affect frequency response. But with modern wiring, the volume pot directly controls the output of the pickup.
Great explanation! That cleared up a few more questions in my mind. Thanks!
it is even much simpler to explain : volume and tone controles in series ( 50's wiring ) or parallel ( modern wiring ) .
With fifties wiring the cap and tone controle is connected to the output of volume controle ( in series) . So when you turn down the volume , it reduces the amount of signal that goes to the tone controle .The volume pot controles the amount of signal going to the tone pot . Interaction between the knobs to play with .
In modern wiring the cap and tone is connected to the input of volume pot ( parallel ) , the bleed off to the tone controle is always at maximum , regardless of the volume pot setting .
Volume and tone controles in series or parallel , that's it .
Now I'm wondering how my Gretsch Streamliner is wired.. That could be a great opportunity to have the tone control in parallel connected to the volume pots of the pickups, but wired in series to the master volume pot..
Damn - that opening sequence killed me! VERY nice playing my man!
Thanks so much man!! 🙏🏻🙏🏻
This is the most comprehensive explanation I've seen on TH-cam for modern vs 50s vs TB. Thank you!
I usually swap all of my guitars to 50s wiring if it doesn’t already have a treble bleed. It’s no extra parts, an easy swap, and makes the guitar sound better to me, in general.
How do you do that?
@@Taffafilmsit shows in the beginning how its done.
Thanks Dylan, this was super informative! Now I think I’m gonna try 50s wiring on my SG as I like to mess with the pots a lot
I ended up swapping my audio taper pots for linear taper ones on my volume pots. For me, the audio taper volume sweep range was too narrow, as the volume drop was too steep once you drop below 7. I play straight into the amp with 50s wiring, and swapping the volume pots for linear taper gave me some of what you were finding with treble bleed wiring.
Great 'splainin'. Answered a lot of questions for me. Thanks
Great straightforward explanation of something that's always eluded me. Thanks, Dylan!
I really like 50's because i can get bright and clean sound when i roll volume back, darker sound when roll tone back, clean bright more single coil type sound when rolling both back to same level.
The Flying V triangle knobs do a similar thing, and i use that in a couple songs to avoid dancing on pedals. Single channel amp set good and hot, neck pickup on full, tone all the way off, bridge volume on about 2 or 3... i can go from thick crunchy lead to spanking bright clean by flipping the selector switch by feel while singing and not having to look down. I love it.
Also, the treble bleed in the pro ii tele changed my mind on treble bleed. Love it.
Thanks! My OCD will kick in and I’ll be wanting to open the control cavity on each of my 70+ guitars now to check the wiring…… plus write them all down for reference!
Probably one of the best videos out there explaining AND showing the difference in wiring types! I'm a 50's Gibson wiring style guy, even on single coils..... xD
Thank you for demonstrating the difference between all 3 wirings.
I did not know what the treble bleed do, now I know.
For what it is worth, I use 50's wiring with my humbucker guitars, I tried it and it was more pleasing to my hears and I like the control of the knobs.
I was just thinking about ripping the pcbs out of my SG and lp speacial and upgrading the pots. Thanks for this upload of great information!
I highly recommend doing that. I also highly recommend VIP pots for replacement. You won't be disappointed.
Thanks Dylan, great explanation. I'm not sure if this qualifies as a wiring style but with 2 volume 2 tone guitars "decoupling" type wiring gives you almost infinite blending options as the 2 volume controls are independent. With this wiring its pretty much required to add a treble bleed to each control. One thing I dislike about the standard wiring of 2 volume 2 tone guitars is that if you turn the volume of one pickup off (in the middle position of the selector) the other pickup is off too. Decoupling fixes this as both are independent.
Dylan, my dad just passed away and we had been listening to an old Lynyrd Skynard song called Mr. Banker a lot recently. We loved hearing slide in songs but that was never my focus during my guitar lessons.
Anyways, I wish I could go back and relive our moments in the car listening to Mr. Banker. My goal is to become proficient enough with slide to play it all the way. I'd love to see your version of it, thanks for your vids.
Great work! This is hands down the most clear and concise explanation/demonstration of wiring types I've seen, and I've watched a lot of them on TH-cam!
This is great. Glad to see you doing these videos. You’re a fantastic player. I’m new to 50’s wiring. I agree that they all have their up and downside.
good info but we really need to remember that we have a pickup selector switch too. for rhythm to lead and back again, flicking the switch rather than using the knobs can also work.
Dylan, thanks so much for explaining the differences/nuances of the 3 main wiring configs. I thought I understood more than I actually did, but... nope! I've wired a couple of my electrics with a TB circuit and it's what I prefer...less to remember and the guitar reacts the way it's intended to.
I swapped to 50s wiring on a LP about 2 days ago and it's absolutely jarring trying to figure out what the hell is going on between my volume and tone. I can see the pros but just trying to... use it while playing is weird so far, but that's after 15 years of modern wiring usage. The immediate things I see are a huge boost in brightness and my neck pickup sounds almost like a strat, which I actually like. The negatives, which may have to do with my new audio taper pots, is that I feel I only get a useble range between 8-10, and it seems like I have 2-4 volume controls now as the tone acts like a volume knob, instead of 1-2 depending on pickup selection. So I kind of am just throwing random knobs sometimes but I'm new at it - we'll see if I keep it.
If you're a big fan of vintage fuzz cleanup then I'd avoid treble bleeds with no resistor, makes the cleans very bright. Other than that you really can't go wrong with any.
You’re a fantastic player AND educator. Because of a different video of yours I can now play behind the slide; thanks to this one I’ll be messing with my controls more!
Your technique is ridiculously good. I just discovered you this morning on your Duane tone video, and look forward to exploring your library. Excellent work. 👍
Damn, so the tone knob actually serves a purpose 😂
This video made me really open my mind, i think ill try a hybrid of this on my Les Paul, vintage witing on the neck and modern on the bridge, must have some cool applications.
Thanks man, awesome video!
Firstly, great playing man. You sound killer.
I tried a treble bleed circuit a few years ago and hated it. I found as I turned down the bass the mid frequency’s were turned down but treble remained so all I really was doing was getting a thinner tone. I haven’t tried 50’s wiring so maybe that’s the one for me. All my guitars have standard wiring (I think) and I use the volume and tone controls often.
I have an es-339 that I put a set of p-rails in with triple shot surrounds. They let you switch each pickup from single coil to p90 to series or parallel. The circuit is then wired to permit me to select between parallel or series, in or out of phase. I did it because I was just curious to know what differences there were and what to make of it all for myself.
Well, having lived with it for 7 or 8 years, I'd say it was and interesting experiment. I personally don't think it matters much in truth. I could write a thesis here but I can actually summarize pretty easily. It doesn't matter much, not enough that anyone but you, the person flicking the switches, would notice. That was my ultimate conclusion.
The guitar works perfectly, I'm happy with it as is and it will remain thus. If people want to find out for themselves, then go for it. The Triple Shot rings combined with push pull pots will give you virtually every permutation possible. There's no magic though, prepare yourself for that. It's a fair chunk of change to satisfy ones curiousity but it will scratch that itch and put it to rest forevermore. No magic, no secret tone, no mojo. Just a fun experiment. I like to show it to people that start speaking about special guitars that famous individuals own. It usually ends debates. Some folks believe in magic and even when provided with evidence, a real guitar, they make excuses and won't accept. More positively, when I'm teaching folks to play, I demonstrate how various pickup combinations sound and it's a great teaching tool.
Interesting. I'd like to have a setup like that to experiment with.
I have the same pickups and can confirm.
Cool but subtle changes and most noticeable by the player more do than audience.
I use it more for recording.
Thank you 👍
Really succinct summary… thanks!
I think you can use either tone pot wiring, just as long as the tone pot taps the signal from the output lug of the volume pot it will be 50s wiring
Well done , seen many try but fail .
Discovered the fifties wiring when I got a fifties Les Paul jr ; the controles worked differently to what I was used to . What's going on here ? This was long before internet and I was oblivious on the subject .
It works for me , in particular for single pickup guitars , changed the wiring to 50's style on several of them .
It gives me three basic sounds to play with (I do not use pedals) , not possible with modern wiring .
Setting guitar volume and tone at about 7, then the (tube)amp is dialled in for a standard sound , not too loud , eq normal , just beneath the sweet spot , the saturation point . The basic starting point .
Then turning up the volume to 10 the sound will get louder of course and more distorted but also darker : from "clean" to growling . Then turning up the tone knob to 10 makes it scream . Clean to growling to screaming , back and forth .
The treble bleed is a rabbit hole you can get lost in . Loosing treble when turning down the volume has never bothered me .
Get used to it or better still : use it to your advantage . F.e. the Gibson 57 Classic Plus bridge pickup can sound harsh. A matter of taste of course but it does to my ears . One can turn down the tone pot but turning down the volume pot can make it sound better as well .
Great explanation Dylan. Thanks for taking he time to share this.
Thanks for this clear explanation.
Thanks for explaining the differences here. I've always known that different types of wiring reacted differently to your volume and tone controls, but never knew which and exactly why. I do know that I have a Tele that was wired as "treble bleed" when I bought it years ago and I didn't like it. I actually prefer losing some high end as I roll off my volume, so I had the capacitor removed. I think it's wired modern now, which is how I think most of guitars are. But I'd have to check. This makes me want to open them all up now!
the other con of treble bleeds is you just might not have enough space to wire it in if you have a complex push pull system going or the cavity is just really small. They also can change the taper of your volume pot
I have a strat with treble bleed "jeff beck tone control" and a neck pickup activator..... Love it.
Great video (and playing...) great, unique information!!!
Thanks Dylan
Thanks, I learned a lot. How to get that Motown rhythm sound - wire it old style. I have an es335 does exactly that with the "woman" sound right at the end of the tone pot travel. That sounds like 50s and it gives a whole lot of different "colours" done that way.
This is all real shit with semi-hollow guitars though.
Some lovely playing!
50’s wiring is what I’m going to try- thanks!
i am have my bare knuckle aftermath 8 string directly wired to output jack. Is there anything to increase it's raw signal any further? No worries, it has plenty of 'UMPH'. Perhaps something to enhance the signal without batteries? Would thicker wire achieve this? Or how about a big chunk of metal or magnet? An accelerator perhaps? Some passive circuit for slight boost?
50's wiring works much better with separate volume and tone pots for each pickup. For single volume and tone guitars, modern wiring with SD treble bleed curcuit. I only have one guitar with modern wiring without a treble bleed, but that's EMG's 81/85 in a LP with 2 volume and 2 tone pots. Every guitar needs different stuff.
Great info and demo - thanks!
Interesting. I'll now try 50s-wiring on the bridge PU controls of my LP and keep the modern version on the neck. I hated the original treble bleed circuit on a newer Tele, made it impossible to get some old loved sounds...
Oh man, I'm torn between 50's wiring and treble bleed. I have a couple guitars with treble bleeds which work great, but my main dilemma is my Les Paul which I've actually wired up with both lol. It's difficult to get a good clean up out of it without killing too much volume, so I'll have to give both a try. On one hand I like the idea of simply backing the volume off just a little to get a clean sound, but on the other I may want to retain the better controllability with the tone control. I guess I'll just have to play around and see which one works best for me.
Thanks, very informative.
I like to use a "bidirectional" tone wiring when there is a single master tone control. This involves a 1meg *linear* pot, with the wiper (middle lug) connected to either the input (modern) or middle ('50s) lug of the master volume control. One outside lug of the tone pot goes to a standard-value tone cap (generally .022uf) and ground, while the other outside lug goes to a cap about 1/5 to 1/4 the value, then ground (e.g., .0047 to .0056uf). This provides for two different rolloffs, one in each direction from the midpoint. If it's a dual-volume/tone guitar, I'll change the tone cap for the bridge pickup to the smaller value, since I don't know of *any* player who would switch to their bridge PU for a dark and dull tone. (Indeed, it kind of drives me nuts that companies have stuck to the what's-good-for-the-goose-is-good-for-the-gander approach to tone controls all these years, just to save a few pennies on tone cap inventory.) The smaller-value cap results in a "rounding the edges" when turned down, as opposed to dulling the sound. It takes a little getting used to, and I've had difficulty finding 1meg pots with a center detente, but it is easy to use, and one of the perks is that "pinky wah" (rolling from max treble cut to brighter with your pinky finger) is much easier to achieve with only half the rotation required. The idea for this came from a 40 year-old suggestion from DIY guru Craig Anderton.
Now, I have to note that I have only used this with modern wiring, so I can't speak to how useful it might be with '50s wiring.
I like a sparkly sound so I generally wire a treble-bypass cap into my volume pots. One trick I will sometimes use is a bigger-than-suggested value for the volume bypass cap, like 1000, or even 1500pf. What this does is transform the volume pot into a sort of bass-cut control, between settings of 10 and maybe 6-7. Below that, it behaves like a volume pot. This is handy for a bridge humbucker pickup where you might want a thinner sound at times, but don't want to wire up, or futz around with, a bass contour control, like one finds on some Reverend and G&L guitars. Those controls are handy, but this trick packs several functions into one control.
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@@Rick_Cleland I'm not sure what that means.
Thank you!
Put a treble bleed in my strat when i did some work to it. Worked great. So, i got curious and tried the exact same scheme on my sg, killed to volume. Hahaha i just wanted to see how the same cap and resistor sounded on a conpletly differnt set up. Then, i could have also used the wrong resistor that time. I never really looked into it, becuase if i ever try again, ill look into what works with and how to eith an sg or les paul, some time later. All this was a few years ago.
What type of treble bleed and cap and resistor values did you decide on?
Yes, loosing treble does not make sense on the "green table" - but I really love clean tones and this treble-bleed - constantly turning down the volume to 10 makes harsh single coils (archtops, semi-acoustics, Tele) really sweet. It's like an EQ. And the pedalboard get's more lightweight. IMHO
Great info. Learned a lot.
do you play slide in standard tuning?
I like 50s wiring. I convert all my Les Pauls to it and also swap out the 300k linear vol. pots that gibson uses to 500k aud. pots. My Kramer Beretta is the only guitar I've had with a treble bleed. Didn't like it because I felt it didn't clean up enough by rolling the volume back until I had lost almost all my volume, (maybe because it was a vol. only guitar?) (also maybe because i dont play at gig level volumes) so I removed the treble bleed
The pickups have to be wound correctly with the right wire, the right turns per layer, the right tension on the wire, magnets, ferris parts, and the correct parts, only then 50s wiring will be clearly superior to the treble bleed thing.
from my expeirience i felt like 50s wiring for me made it so that when i rolled off my volume it would be softer but not much quiter, when normal wiring seems to kind of actually lower the volume. not sure if i am actually a fan of the 50s wiring that much.
I’ve tried them all and prefer treble bleed because I tend to use my volume pot a lot to manage gain when I play.
In my opinion, 50's wiring adds some top end bite even when all knobs are on 10 as compared to "modern" wiring. Any Gibson style guitar (humbuckers or P90s) I use, I always wire 50's style because of the top end and clarity it adds. It does affect the way the pots respond or taper compared to modern.
Interesting, I was always under the impression they sounded the same with all knobs on 10. I’ll have to do the swap on one of my guitars again and listen for it!
Seems to me that the 50's wiring was a learning curve for Gibson as the modern wiring seems to be more workable so they changed to that. I have put treble bleed on my (modern wired) Tele with a resistor and it works great.
What's your choice for the resistance and capacitor for your treble bleed? I mean the exact numbers and if is in parallel or serial ?
Thanks!
We need to know more about the guitars please, what brand name??
I said the names in the video haha, Gibson SG, B&G Guitars Helena, PRS NF53
Fantastic video. I make my sg with 50's wiring but when i turn the neck volume all the way down i still hear my guitar ( low but is there).is this normal?
DYLAN ADAMS, Try to make a video lesson about the 50's wiring getting that Clapton Cream WOMAN Tone. I think he rolled down the volume to 7 and the tone to 3. You can make a Comparison of Modern wiring WOMAN TONE compared back to back with 50's wiring WOMAN TONE in the video. Also I think Duane Allman used 50's wiring because his Les Paul was a 1959 which for slide playing he would also roll down the volume to 7 and the tone to 0 to 3 settings. The 50's wiring makes a difference how the volume pot is setting is at also because its interacting with the tone cap.
Would you still prefer treble bleed on Les Paul’s when blending the volume and tone knobs of both pickups? (Toggle switch in the middle position)
That’s hard for me to say since I almost never use that position, but so far I’ve stuck with 50s wiring on Les Pauls anyway for vintage accuracy so I’d probably stay with 50s wiring for that situation too. I’ll have to try treble bleed on an LP and see how it does!
does 50s wiring work on a jazz bass with the usual vvt setup? im intrigued to atleast try it on guitar
Hey Dylan, do you have any gigs in the north east coming up?
Unfortunately I don’t currently have anything scheduled up there for 2024, but I hope to in the future!
@@dylanadamsguitar I'll be waiting patiently buddy. Have a great day.
Do you think you would like the SG with either 50s or TB wiring? As you acquire more guitars, do you feel having all three is better than your favorite two types?
I’ve played for 20 years and didn’t know half of this. The more you know..
Too much of technical stuff makes my head hurt and my ears bleed.
Use bumblebee caps … the Emerson pre wired kit is the best .
50s works better with fuzzes in my experience. TB works great with good ODs or straight in the amps.
I had a paragraph written and decided against it. You can always consider an expression pedal for your volume control needs. That's a very shortened and painfully underwhelming comment to a decidedly complex discussion.
If only it were that easy ;) The reason this is a thing is because guitar not only sounds different with tone/volume adjustments, but reacts differently too.
I love your videos,, thanks. I have a question for you,, I’ve always heard that treble bleed doesn’t work well with fuzz pedals.. do you have any experience with that?
Thanks! So I’ve used my treble bleed-equipped Mulecaster with fuzz plenty of times and haven’t had any issues, but I haven’t used the PRS with fuzz yet so it’s hard to say. I can see how that one may be a little extra thin/bright, since a lot fuzzes naturally have thinner/brighter sound as you roll back your guitar volume
Holy $&it!! This guy can melt!
I've tried Treble Bleed, but it didn't work well on my bright Strat, and made it sound and feel unnatural to me.
Makes sense! On brighter single coil guitars I’d probably just stick with modern wiring personally
Heck, Eric Johnson goes so far as to wire tone control for bridge. I love that feature on my EJ strat.
@@benjaminbarnett3696 Yeah, that's what I've done as well. 😎
50's wiring means the lower the volume, the more the tone pot is out of the circuit. With modern, it's 100% of it's effect all the time.
*_Mmmmmmm..._* 🤔🤔🤔
50s is the way to go if you like to use the volume to control your dynamics. Modern wiring is terrible.
50s has a problem when you include tone cut. Modern has a problem when you reduce volume. I use 50s in all my guitars.
3:22 *Turns off Manley/Tannoys and puts on sony MDRs borrowed from the rat that lives in them*