Cheng Chuei being the fundamental movement/drill for Bajiquan, it's purpose is to develop the essential Cheng Jin, once the Jin is developed, there's no set application to the Jin, you can do whatever move that applies the Jin.
I've hesitated to comment on this because it brings up so much. I was taught to do the movement with the lead foot at the end of the movement being a brake. I suspect that way of doing it is changed as one gets more practice because when one gets "advanced" most things are done from the half bow half horse stance and there is no way in THAT stance to focus force on the lead foot. The way you show it, the more "advanced" way for lack of a better term also squares with good boxing form. All the force from a good jab comes off the back foot. I find the movement easier to control, to remain balanced when I focus on rooting the rear foot. Gives me a GREAT deal to think about. I can see how deep Baji practice can even have a spiritual aspect because it almost forces you into a mindfulness session when you train. You have to be VERY focused because so much is going on.
Absolutely love and welcome productive discussions like this. So from my experience and tests. Front foot braking should not be the case because of multiple reasons: 1. If Baji is all about power reaching the 8W theme directions, and issuing that power throughout opponent’s body… why should anyone put a break on it? 2. Continue with the above. With front foot as “break”, you not only throwing your weight to the front foot which maybe giving you a strong first hit, but you will put yourself in a “stop”, and will take extra steps for you to issue following attacks. With rear foot rooting, you can continue to fire follow up Jin one after one. 3. As demonstrated above, front foot rooting only seems strong but power is not continuous. It is a secondary force, rather as primary support like the rear foot. May I ask, which Baji lineage are your study under? The only lineage that I’ve observed that breaks and stomps on the front foot and still able to make effective attacks is the Han Hua Chen’s lineage.
@@wutan_nj I studied at WuTang Ohio. I went for one year and some change to Grandmaster Yangs classes which were largely taught by several of his disciples. You seem much more into detailed explanations. This is NOT meant as a critique of the Ohio folks but they seemed to hold that you should observe and copy to the best of your abilities. I studied for such a short period because I live a couple of hundred miles away and was only able to make it up at most for once a week. I always understood the movement to be a power development drill more than an actual fighting movement.
@@rodgerbane3825 I see, I somehow thought of Ohio WuTan when I saw your previous msg… I was once discussing this topic with James Rogers, you may know him. WuTan’s system has a pretty robust training procedure. Starts with structure, then mechanics, then power generation and delivery, then agility, fluidity, then “Hua”, the ability to dissolve power. But very few had completed and reached the Hua state.
@@rodgerbane3825 lol… ahh I see. We had a small fall out too, he didn’t like the fact that I’m his kungfu uncle. James is dedicated martial artist, quite good in praying mantis.
I’ve seen there are quite a few versions of Bajiquan mabu Chong Chuei (some calls it Cheng Chuei)... But there should ways for you to self check to know at least you are on the right path. 1. Is your body working as a whole? 2. Can your Chong Chuei be performed on extreme slippery surface? 3. When fa-Jin, when you apply power, are you exerting a balanced cross strength? and 4. Most importantly, does your punch/strike have support from the ground? One can feel “right” but can be totally wrong. Having a senior person or teacher help look at your moves.
You are not wrong. Bajiquan is like a longer and larger version of XingYi. When Bajiquan reaches a high level, the horse stance becomes a 4/6 stance and the Jin gradually reduces to smaller frame.
@@wutan_nj I've been wanting to study baji Chuan for years. I think I found your website will be looking into classes I live in Brooklyn. Your school is in flushing??
What's the point of keeping the rear hand like that? In boxing, we're taught to keep the rear hand tight to the body or near the chin to block counters. It also looks rather stiff. There are many great body punches in boxing but I haven't seen anything similar to this.
Two purposes: 1. To grab and pull back simultaneously when striking forward. 2. To train what we called 8-extreme power(“Baji”). Which is a development phase gesture, we are not suppose to keep that rear hand hanging in the back like that during fighting situation.
2:54 The two problems here are that nothing precedes/follows his strike and that you don't *need* to move that far to generate force. 1. Its not the punch that's important so much as the setup/follow up. Lunging is a great way to get countered. The only reason anyone with any ring time(in any martial art) would stand there for that is to counter. He covers way too much ground at once with no attack, no feint, and no guard. Not sweet or scientific. 2. As far as I can tell, all his force comes from the initial step onto the lead foot from the back. You can hear it in the stomp and see step 2 is slower. He'd hit just as hard or harder if he were simply in *better range* and relied on the initial weight transfer. Even if there is a better version that adds more force, plenty of people can do damage without it so why not do it the economical way once you're actually in range? I'm sure someone will insist it's just showing a technique but if you don't have intelligent/varied ways to set up attacks and follow up from them, then they're not going to be reliable. You're much better off waiting for someone to lung at you like this and then attacking once they've committed. The stance shift doesn't help generate force, so the question is why do the extra work? Going back to point 1, if there is a use, it would be strictly to do with the position that it leaves you and your opponent in. That's really the only reason to take extra steps. You're either in position or not. Extra steps get you in or out of that position...or out of the fight, haha. No shame in that.
Now the real explanation to this mess: This is just a concept!!! Good Bajiquan teacher will tell you that. It is not supposed to be done like this, it's only to teach you how to throw and attack that can push back your opponent, and also how to generate power with your stomping. Yeah, if you practice it enough, you may figure out how to use it effectively, but it wasn't made with the intention of being used like that...
Hello, I really appreciate the effort and clarity you have provided in this video! I have sent a private message via your website. Hope you can consider my inquiry :D
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沒練過八極。感謝影片很清楚的解析十字勁與很多人馬步衝拳重心與腳的轉換誤區,對練習非常有幫助
老師把八極拳講得很科學，超棒的
國術應該是科學的，甚至於是很高層級的運動方式與力學效率。在我認為，練習國術的人首先要對國術有信心，才有辦法深入得到它的offerings.
覺得老師的「撐」講的很好。
沒學過八極，但他山之石可以攻玉。
我也分享一下，我學太極的。
我們老師也說過說發勁不能到前腳。
邱炳榮 各家拳法練到最後拳理殊途同歸。每個人都有兩隻手兩隻腳被同樣的地心引力所規範... 發勁的原理也往往脫離不了大自然的法則
認同
我之前桌球體育班的時候，也會跺腳發力，受益良多 謝謝🙏
貧民玩家 我可以想像桌球可以用瞬間的反作用力去擊球，因為乒乓球很輕、球拍跟球接觸的時間也非常短，但是大人卻不一樣，不適合用前腳跺步
Still one of the best English translated videos I've seen on this! Thank you!
Thank you 🙏 glad I can make it clear for people.
感謝影片
我是練八極的 所以看到八極的影片非常感動
柴柴 八極的路很艱困遙遠，加油💪
謝謝鼓勵
軍中只有教招式
沒教發力
也找不到人學啊⋯⋯
@@user-ei3bl6fk5c 招式不重要…至少對我來說
因為太死記死練招式反而更容易被破解
因為我當初就是這樣贏了總統府憲兵隊的八極拳教官…個人是夜鷹部隊的莒拳教官
以莒拳為主
加點泰拳為輔
再來點網路上找到的如何破解八極拳招式…
簡單來說~我打雜家的
比賽時
對手被我弄得很亂
時不時中斷比賽抗議
後來
我對主裁判官説…真正遇上敵人時
敵人會因為你打的“不純正”而和你一直重來重打嗎？
最後
沒有2分鐘
對手躺下
我還站著~贏了！
@@user-yl8od2bo9h 那個八極教官是誰啊？
Fantastic video as always. Thanks brother.
Thx u so much for your detail on your Wutan baji Chong-chui insight. Its help me to get my understanding in fixing my basic. 👍🙏
非常詳盡的說明
Gary Oldman 謝謝
Very good video with explanation.
Your channel is a treasure. Thank you.
Thank for recognizing.
So this is how Cheng Chui is applied, thanks for the explanation, it was hard finding out the application of this move.
Cheng Chuei being the fundamental movement/drill for Bajiquan, it's purpose is to develop the essential Cheng Jin, once the Jin is developed, there's no set application to the Jin, you can do whatever move that applies the Jin.
Thanks Sifu Vincent
馬步衝捶，我的理解是前手撐後手拉，似傳統基本功裏的馬步拉硬弓。
只是除了前撐後拉之外也要用相同的力去頭頂尾坐。不然八極拳就沒有八方極遠之意，也沒有爆炸勁。
前腳掌的拍踏是很有趣現象 從網上的影片來看 劉師爺沒有這樣的動作 徐紀老師有 且是年輕就這樣練習 蘇昱彰老師年輕沒有 但中年後有 再來季式也有 其它就沒看到了
chihhsien hung 前腳剁步可以借用即時的反作用力發出短勁，發短勁表示較方便「連發」，而且容易練。沒有對錯，但是後腳發勁比較詮釋「八極」拳的原意；劉師爺可以以後腳為主發連勁；八極連環拳練的就是這個。
@@wutan_nj 我练的就是前脚掌踏下去的，我老师也没指出我这个问题。我自己打着打着也觉得这样力量大，没问题。
th-cam.com/video/y0rAOahT0BY/w-d-xo.html 可以參考下何靜寒老師的影片 衝拳打的是前手及後腿的兩點支撐力 前腿一落地就會變成二腿及前手的三點支撐力 手的力量就會變小 踩踏前腳可以讓重心往前移 變成前腿及前手的支撐力 另外也可以像何老師微收後腳 台灣也有同門練習衝捶打完重心是放在前腳！
我之前練洪拳也有類似的招式 但我腰胯沒力 打不出爆發😭
唉，這麼好的傳武，一整套精妙的原理和精神，但現在動輒就是UFC、MMA，只要沒在那個擂台發光，就全都被當成垃圾，我個人三不五時也會看些格鬥、UFC、拳擊之類的，我相信各家都有其精神，好比空手道也有演武，但我個人私心還是非常喜愛八極。
Pork Jackson UFC, MMA 等的盛行對傳武是好事。傳武本身雖是為著對抗盜匪與戰場對戰演化而生，不是為擂台而設計。但並不代表傳武不能跟隨時代變遷而進化。自從雷雷大師與眾多傳武大師被冬瓜海K過後，不只是傳武，就連跆拳道也開始為實戰而改變訓練方式與思維。
說實在的MMA那些都是擂台規則保護的，如果說對抗盜匪的話MMA的實用性遠不如傳武
@@user-cs1fw1co2l 在打手槍嗎？
@@tequila3344
之前 烏茲別克MMA冠軍 詹希德，在街鬥中被一個人秒殺後，
被圍毆打死 !!!
而且好笑的是，他身上帶著比首。
可見，MMA恐怕讓人養成壞習慣。
其實，很多MMA都兼練傳統武術。
很多MMA選手都說傳統武術好用。
只是現在UFC、MMA，民進黨、CIA想要毀謗 !!!
像這個名嘴 黎建南，擂台上專門偷用形意拳。[00:04:37]
th-cam.com/video/Lr_0w3Y45Sw/w-d-xo.html
I've hesitated to comment on this because it brings up so much. I was taught to do the movement with the lead foot at the end of the movement being a brake. I suspect that way of doing it is changed as one gets more practice because when one gets "advanced" most things are done from the half bow half horse stance and there is no way in THAT stance to focus force on the lead foot. The way you show it, the more "advanced" way for lack of a better term also squares with good boxing form. All the force from a good jab comes off the back foot. I find the movement easier to control, to remain balanced when I focus on rooting the rear foot. Gives me a GREAT deal to think about. I can see how deep Baji practice can even have a spiritual aspect because it almost forces you into a mindfulness session when you train. You have to be VERY focused because so much is going on.
Absolutely love and welcome productive discussions like this.
So from my experience and tests. Front foot braking should not be the case because of multiple reasons:
1. If Baji is all about power reaching the 8W theme directions, and issuing that power throughout opponent’s body… why should anyone put a break on it?
2. Continue with the above. With front foot as “break”, you not only throwing your weight to the front foot which maybe giving you a strong first hit, but you will put yourself in a “stop”, and will take extra steps for you to issue following attacks. With rear foot rooting, you can continue to fire follow up Jin one after one.
3. As demonstrated above, front foot rooting only seems strong but power is not continuous. It is a secondary force, rather as primary support like the rear foot.
May I ask, which Baji lineage are your study under? The only lineage that I’ve observed that breaks and stomps on the front foot and still able to make effective attacks is the Han Hua Chen’s lineage.
@@wutan_nj I studied at WuTang Ohio. I went for one year and some change to Grandmaster Yangs classes which were largely taught by several of his disciples. You seem much more into detailed explanations. This is NOT meant as a critique of the Ohio folks but they seemed to hold that you should observe and copy to the best of your abilities. I studied for such a short period because I live a couple of hundred miles away and was only able to make it up at most for once a week. I always understood the movement to be a power development drill more than an actual fighting movement.
@@rodgerbane3825 I see, I somehow thought of Ohio WuTan when I saw your previous msg… I was once discussing this topic with James Rogers, you may know him.
WuTan’s system has a pretty robust training procedure. Starts with structure, then mechanics, then power generation and delivery, then agility, fluidity, then “Hua”, the ability to dissolve power. But very few had completed and reached the Hua state.
Yep, I know Jimmy . Sadly, we had a falling out over the issue of the last President who I was fairly outspoken against and he seemed very fond of.
@@rodgerbane3825 lol… ahh I see. We had a small fall out too, he didn’t like the fact that I’m his kungfu uncle. James is dedicated martial artist, quite good in praying mantis.
Thank you...and thank you for the english subtitles - is this concept of supporting leg and distance where the idea of a '1 inch punch' comes from?
Gary Finch very similar!
How do you know when you are doing it correctly? How should it feel?
I’ve seen there are quite a few versions of Bajiquan mabu Chong Chuei (some calls it Cheng Chuei)... But there should ways for you to self check to know at least you are on the right path.
1. Is your body working as a whole?
2. Can your Chong Chuei be performed on extreme slippery surface?
3. When fa-Jin, when you apply power, are you exerting a balanced cross strength?
and 4. Most importantly, does your punch/strike have support from the ground?
One can feel “right” but can be totally wrong. Having a senior person or teacher help look at your moves.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the footwork of Chong Chuei looks similar to Xingyiquan...except in Xingyi it ends in Santishi
You are not wrong. Bajiquan is like a longer and larger version of XingYi. When Bajiquan reaches a high level, the horse stance becomes a 4/6 stance and the Jin gradually reduces to smaller frame.
been following you guys for a while and just realized you are based in new jersey..lol
The school’s name is WuTan NJ, but we are based in NYC and online remote teaching.
@@wutan_nj I've been wanting to study baji Chuan for years. I think I found your website will be looking into classes I live in Brooklyn. Your school is in flushing??
@@DAF21films no I’m in WestVillage Manhattan, the Queens school is a completely different school.
@@wutan_nj oh?? I'd love to come train. I've trained mostly in hung gar and xing yi Chuan and a bit of bagua
@@DAF21films please email wutanusa@gmail.com and tell me a bit more about your martial arts experience.
請教老師，您這裡是否方便拍攝發勁六式??
林政諭 我前一陣子有開一個「發勁六式」的網路研討會，但是是英文教學。你email 給 wutanusa@gmail.com, 我可以分享連結給你。
這個有平時的對打練習可以看嗎？
在新冠疫情未爆發前我們每週都有對打練習，但直到學生養成舉手投足都是傳武的方式之前，應該不會錄影分享。
在下一開始學習八極拳，師父看到在下整身都是肌肉太僵硬，因此一開始就只練簡易版楊氏太極拳和八卦掌兩儀掌。練八極拳時也都不能發勁或跺腳。
老實說，在下是了解，這是為了練協調性和學習如何放鬆，但在下是怕，一直都沒發勁，會不會以後都不會發勁啊？哈哈
Alex Ong 絕對不會！中國傳統武術是由鬆來練鋼，練得越鬆發出來的勁就越鋼越大。只是需花稍多時間。你的師父教的步驟是正確的的。
@@wutan_nj 嗯，多謝，大師兄!
出拳時同手同腳的發力主要是把人頂出去嗎？還是搭配重心的移動可以更好的傷到內臟?
是到，可以這麼說。這只是一種訓練方法，將身體運動方式達到完全「同步」來增加攻擊力量。
发放在挨到人的时候很好切换，放长就能顶出去，放短就好把劲留在对手身上
@@dizzarzSTA 八極拳比較沒意思把勁留在敵人身上，一切從身法、步法，到發勁都是意在「穿過」敵人
@@wutan_nj 嗯，放长击远，理解。
What's the point of keeping the rear hand like that? In boxing, we're taught to keep the rear hand tight to the body or near the chin to block counters. It also looks rather stiff. There are many great body punches in boxing but I haven't seen anything similar to this.
Two purposes: 1. To grab and pull back simultaneously when striking forward. 2. To train what we called 8-extreme power(“Baji”). Which is a development phase gesture, we are not suppose to keep that rear hand hanging in the back like that during fighting situation.
@@wutan_nj thanks for the explaination
前幾年我高中的時候學校曾經找過一位太極拳師傅來學校裡上課，他一直跟我們強調最重要的是要「接地」，這就是所謂殊途同歸嗎?
沒錯
任何武術看起來很簡單其實都有眉角 我練的是食鶴拳他的吋勁詠春拳 一樣採吞肩只差出去的時候手腕詠春是往上頂食鶴則是往下食鶴拳在白鶴拳飛鳴宿食四大派系跟八極拳一樣最兇猛的 跟八極一樣共通點不隨意起腳 只差八極是北派步法比較大 食鶴是南派步法比較小
李美優 鶴拳是很特別的拳，源自福建省，而福建省因三面環山，與其他鄰省交流不頻繁，所以鶴拳有它很獨特且純的手法身法發勁... 好在有一面向海得以傳至台灣與琉球。
八極拳主要在於十字勁跟扭腰轉跨的勁力，八極拳之剛猛在於一個技巧寸勁的施展，在打八極拳之前最好先練半小時八極內丹功在打否則傷及五臟六腑。
錯
哇喔...雖然不太懂反作用力。
但古代怎麼會有這麼多人想出來麼奇妙的打人方式!?
人體力量使用方式?
應該是用來打人的對吧?
這動作這麼大在實戰中真的會用到嗎
衝捶練的只是一股「直接」的勁，其實任何一招也一樣，練習時是練熟練身體運動與架構的最佳化，而用的時候則以大化小。
不過最近看了一場 Combat Karate 的比賽，竟有一位選手兩個刺拳後竟然身體壓低衝進去打出一個與馬步衝捶相似的拳… 攻擊有效。
也跌破我的眼鏡
其實UFC裡怪招頻頻，任何招式只要熟練，實際對了，都能有效。就像泰拳的迴身肘擊，十年前沒有練MMA的人會覺得這種花巧大幅度轉身的攻擊會有效… 這招現在每場比賽都看得到至少兩三次。
形意拳為所有拳法之父；練好形意拳再練其他拳法是輕而易舉；其他拳法練得再好要練形意拳就得從頭開始.1995年我的師兄戴士哲大師找了一群武壇的師弟到他家練形意拳；練了半年多；等我回來時示範給他們看；結果是每個人都覺得差太多了，從此不再練了！我教學生都是先教簡單的八極；練得好才會教形意拳。形意拳複雜多了！
先說聲前輩好！小弟稍有涉獵形意拳，只覺得形意拳是八極拳的「下一課」，若八極拳練到極致就會走入形意拳的濃縮。但是雖說八極拳沒有形意拳來的細緻內化、博大精深，要將八極拳練到好談何容易。武壇雖說以八極拳為當家拳，但是練得好、練懂的不多...
我還是認為拳海無涯、殊途同歸，八極拳練到極致變自然會內化、會纏、會濃縮、馬步會變得不弓不馬、勁會變短、變連環...
我想先把八極拳練到極致了，有機會再深造形意拳，再看看到底是殊途同歸還是形意拳更勝一層。謝謝前輩！
看了一下您的频道，我们这一支子是郭云深传王芗斋转传王炳奎，倒我是第七代，你打的，我看不懂。
@@dizzarzSTA 我們這一支是李書文劉雲樵一支八極拳，比之其他八極拳動作更少更簡單，但內涵卻較複雜。
@@wutan_nj 听说台湾地区主要都是刘家传的这一系。我前段时间看了很多天津八极拳，感觉内在的东西是一系相传，但架子和练法差的很远。我上面说看不懂不是说您的频道，是上面那位练形意的前辈。
@@dizzarzSTA 是的，天津、長春一係多半是由李書文大弟子霍殿格傳。
台灣有三支八極拳：劉氏的李書文八極拳、季文龍季氏八極、與南京國術館的李元智係。
請問八極拳女生可以學嗎？
邦枝葵 當然可以啊
@@wutan_nj 謝謝你回答我
任何拳練成整勁時一出拳都是整個身體都是勁。所以拳勁有多大身體的承受力就能有多大
形意拳踩踏都让你做成震脚了，还扬个头，你打完那个不伦不类的马形，脑子不难受吗，别人看的都难受。
@@dizzarzSTA 所以說你根本不懂正傳的形意拳。
@@richardhwang4350 你打成那个样子，还好意思讲这样的话，是丢你自己师门的人。
@@dizzarzSTA 你懂個屁，欺師滅祖的後輩
坐等實錘
2:54 The two problems here are that nothing precedes/follows his strike and that you don't *need* to move that far to generate force.
1. Its not the punch that's important so much as the setup/follow up. Lunging is a great way to get countered. The only reason anyone with any ring time(in any martial art) would stand there for that is to counter. He covers way too much ground at once with no attack, no feint, and no guard. Not sweet or scientific.
2. As far as I can tell, all his force comes from the initial step onto the lead foot from the back. You can hear it in the stomp and see step 2 is slower. He'd hit just as hard or harder if he were simply in *better range* and relied on the initial weight transfer. Even if there is a better version that adds more force, plenty of people can do damage without it so why not do it the economical way once you're actually in range?
I'm sure someone will insist it's just showing a technique but if you don't have intelligent/varied ways to set up attacks and follow up from them, then they're not going to be reliable. You're much better off waiting for someone to lung at you like this and then attacking once they've committed. The stance shift doesn't help generate force, so the question is why do the extra work? Going back to point 1, if there is a use, it would be strictly to do with the position that it leaves you and your opponent in. That's really the only reason to take extra steps. You're either in position or not. Extra steps get you in or out of that position...or out of the fight, haha. No shame in that.
I swear I saw this in a reddit thread once.
@@minoadlawan4583 lol
Now the real explanation to this mess:
This is just a concept!!! Good Bajiquan teacher will tell you that.
It is not supposed to be done like this, it's only to teach you how to throw and attack that can push back your opponent, and also how to generate power with your stomping. Yeah, if you practice it enough, you may figure out how to use it effectively, but it wasn't made with the intention of being used like that...
槍術
Hello, I really appreciate the effort and clarity you have provided in this video!
I have sent a private message via your website. Hope you can consider my inquiry :D
在霍氏門派又稱撐錘
稱捶
大哥，地板会碎的。。
老師您可以參考松濤館流空手道七段師範中達也的直擊：th-cam.com/video/OGRYjpP2fqA/w-d-xo.html
會參考的，謝謝
出拳時破綻百出
🤦🏻♂️
把演示看作實戰，你的智商堪憂
@@user-ji8yb6vg9q 怎看也比你高
@@michaeljaw3393 智商高就能看出這只是演示發勁的路線和細節，只有智商低的才會以為實戰打架就要這麼用。
個人覺得前腳進入點影響也很大。
張霖 是的
我个人觉得mma根本不会这么讲究完美的拳，用不完美的拳打到你没机会
MMA 與散打、拳擊選手也都是將同樣十幾、二十招反覆練習上萬次將最佳打擊角度練成習慣。傳統武術的問題就是套路招式太多，而我等傳五傳承者的工作就是將傳武招式拆出來單招訓練、在與對手實戰演練... 傳武才有希望
一萬次的練習就是為了一次完整發力啊
看國術各家流派對於各種勁的解釋都覺得不難理解
唯獨沉墜勁始終不明白究竟是什麼
就是对撑
身體放鬆自然下沉產生向下的力是為沉墜，身體左右擰轉產生的螺旋的力是為纏絲
台灣的八極拳拳風應該有別於孟村而近於長春。
拳風與勁道要對才能再繼續討論應用。
在討論應用時，對手的所有反應都要算計在內，才算是成一招勢。
因為在探討運用時，對手都沒有防禦和反應動作，所以才會認為馬步衝捶是這樣直直衝進去。
真的對打，這樣的直衝誰都打不到。
再者，即使是這樣直進的衝捶，對照意下其他拳種的發力，有比較猛爆嗎?
真的沒有。
不是八極的問題而是解釋的人的問題。
1. 馬步衝捶是八極門訓「練」捅勁的方法，動作由開展慢慢漸進變小，由馬步慢慢變成不弓不馬。要知練與用的不同。
2. 但真的打不到人嗎？一招制勝是不可能，馬步衝捶之前與之後連招才是真正「有沒有用」的關鍵，而不是在一招上。看看這上個月的賽事
fb.watch/d78I_9eU13/
3. 有比較猛爆
4. 不是八極的問題，也不是解釋的人的問題，而是…
@@wutan_nj 先生給的視頻是空手道的比賽。
空手道比賽中的馬步攻擊。
就是八極拳應有的馬步衝捶嗎?
那空手和八極就練成一路了。這樣對嗎?
況且影片中黑人選手在沒有招架的情況下中招，
是因為白人拳手的攻擊威勢小，側身從黑人選手是現下偷刺一拳，
其實真的不頂用。
我很贊成武術的探討，
先說八極拳的練和用不同這件事，
是誰說的?
如果練和用不同，學生練一練還去閉門求師傅教用法，
這樣國術真的很可悲!
拚盡全力練對的都不一定能練好，
還說練的其實不是能用的。
@@martialisart 很難溝通… 歐先生你應該不是練拳的吧？或是還沒深入了解。影片的空手道選手當然用的不是馬步衝捶，但是他用時的時機、距離、打擊點、用意都與馬步衝捶相似，分享著影片只為了讓練八極的人不要覺得大動作的馬步衝捶在實戰中無用。
至於練與用的不同在任何格鬥與體育項目都是非常常見的事情，不需大驚小怪。人的身體千變萬化，加上距離、身高、體重、甚至於規則的不同都能大大影響用法上的即時調整… 但是練出來的「勁」是不會變的。
@@wutan_nj
其實我是好意提醒，
別從我是找碴的酸民這個角度想我的發言。
八極衝捶和你po出來的空手道的馬步刺擊，缺別其實在於字訣，用衝撞叫「衝」捶，用前刺的叫「刺」擊。
馬步衝捶要能得手，不是擊出後的後續攻擊，而是之前的爬山手能奏功。
畢竟一擊不中千招無用。
不招不架只是一下，是雙方程度有懸殊落差。
如果功夫都只是一下，還用這麼多國術派別嗎?
再說先生的衝捶將人發出，也不合衝捶的勁道。
@@martialisart 衝捶絕對不可能一招制勝，一定要有後續。這個空手道視頻的重點在於那位選手成功的找到實際距離使出了沒有爬手的直接中斷衝拳。這在國術界應該沒有發生過。
用科學角度
中国功夫有一个最大的缺陷，就是永远就喜欢去以动击静，无论再完美的解释都是理论谈兵，相差甚远
講理論分析是任何武術格鬥都有的，傳統武術缺的是實戰試煉。泰拳與拳擊花了至少半個世紀才演化至今天的樣貌，我們正在努力進步中。
你有機會應該找個好老師父再練練形意拳才能了解到什麼是整勁和八極拳的缺點。
我有個師兄是河南人，襲承家傳形意拳。家中長輩叮囑他在外遇到練八極拳的要小心，如有遇到好的老師定要學八極拳來補足形意的不足... 我個人則認為各家拳法殊途同歸，其實與哪家拳法好壞強弱沒啥關西。
我功力未到火候，有機緣希望能再遇到一個好師父繼續深造。
我就是形意拳击加意拳，八级近身贴靠拉扯很厉害。但练八级的好像更规矩一点连起来
錯、錯、錯
為你感到抱歉
@@wutan_nj 人人大师，个个高手。
八極拳的 "八極" 是指 攻擊時 要注意身體 頭、肩、肘、手、尾、胯、膝、足 八個部位的應用
不是'你講得什麼 四面八方.... !@##@$!#$
你是看漫畫學拳的?
那我只能說你的「八極」還只局限在四肢。那是第一課。再練個幾年你也許會為了你這個留言感到可笑。
我今天心情好，教你一課：
「八極」厲害的是它的發勁，而這「四面八方」的勁是八極拳在眾多中國武術拳種裡獨有的，也就是我們說的「爆炸勁」。如果說八卦掌的打法像是洪流旋渦、螳螂拳像機關槍、太極拳似水、形意拳像砲... 八極拳就像是炸彈。近身侵入敵身再「引爆」。而以頭肩肘手尾胯膝足這些部位管道傳達這個「勁」到敵人身上。
如果八極拳只局限在於這八個身體部位，那鐵山靠是第「九極」？
八極拳沒那麼膚淺！
八極拳的意思是從握空拳如耙子而來!被亂扯什麼四面八方?你到底跟誰練的?那麼會扯淡
名稱由來已不可考，有明代紀孝新書「巴子」拳之說，也有清代「癩」和尚傳吳鐘的說法⋯ 「耙子」也只是其中的一種推測罷了。現代拳法多半是演化而來，而八極拳演化至今從練法到用法都是以「十字勁」、「爆炸勁」為名，勁是四面八方發出，而不是單一走向。眾多中國拳法種也只有八極拳是有這樣的發勁特色。
巴子拳幾百年演化至今，已經不是「耙子」那麼簡單了...
越科學化拆解，讓許多流派感到不安，反而顯現老師的教法符合科學。科學化的發力，講求是全身核心力量發力與調節，猶如李小龍運用「寸拳」，依照版大所言，沒有發力與調節的練武之人，真的可以將寸拳的真正功能和效果能使出來?
如果李小龍的寸拳，完全就是李小龍本身的全身肌肉發力與調節，在5-10公分內的距離用拳擊打無防衛的心臟部位，達到短暫心臟麻痺。這個概念衍伸出來，敵人露出中線空檔給我們，短暫機會出現後我們利用八極拳步伐並搭配寸拳的發力，全身肌肉發力與調節擊打。如板大所說八極拳沒有利用這些科學化概念，很難說得過去。
更不用說世界格鬥技中，很多是玩摔跤、角力，完全利用全身力量、肌肉勁力和調節核心肌肉與四肢發力。
板大要知道武術也是格鬥技，只是時空環境不一樣，以前人只是不想將科學化的經驗、分析方法等公開給大眾，隨著西方科學、科技傳播，武術內涵科學才真正公開。
武術也是可以殺人，也可以只打套路，只要運用科學化，不要忘了中國大陸有部電影-師父，徐浩丰導演有說:「練武術，很多人的手是沒有長繭子，能用械鬥的一刀解決，就用一刀解決。」。
@@user-yh9tz5bu9r 李小龍寸勁的練法從「肌肉」下手有問題
Martial fantasy arts