You could definitely make a series out of this. Another video on the other non-MS units of the federation, then one or two on Zeon's non-MS units, then all the non-MS units from all the AU series.
Man I have to say we rarely seen Type 61 doing some kickass action on the battlefield, I hope one day we can see non MS feddies vehicle can show their numerical advantage.
@@TwilightNoirZ26 Its from the playstation one Ghirens Greed/ambition grand strategy game i think. Theres lots more of these little cutscenes. To bad the PsP version only has still images since its superior otherwise in all aspects.
my fav moment of the 1 year war is when i believe at the battle of solomon or the other fortress when one Zaku pushes another to atk and gets a grenade thrown at it
@@benlex5672 The outcome would have been the same with Gihren surviving, but if Kycilia hadn't got herself char'd that might actually have made a long-term difference. She was sufficiently politically savvy to potentially negotiate a less one-sided peace, resulting in a stronger Zeon successor state. With her death though nobody who could have pulled together enough support to meaningfully negotiate remained (except of course for Char, but he had other ideas).
At most 30%, even smaller. In the final days Zeon has run out of anything, if Kiren survived, he would face a coup back in side 3, as the Manga stated. He simply has nothing to negotiate with the Federation. Yes, Revil is dead but Federation still has a lot of capable generals, (those in 0083, and again, the anime makes them look stupid but actually their plan is good if not someone TKing with GP03). The series tend to make Federation look stupid and corrupt, but many decisions of the Federation actually are more reasonable and realistic than they look like.
A quick Google search and I found a few videos talking about the techs in Gundam, which included the Minovsky Particles, and also wiki articles stuffs detailing it alongside other similar technology on the other spin-offs like N-Jammer and Ahab Particles. Of course, none of it is by Kakarot though, so yeah. Agreed.
Feddie Engineer A: Our fighters don't have enough firepower and our bombers are too sluggish! Feddie Engineer B: So what we need is an fighter-attacker that can cruise... Feddie Engineer C: That reminds me of a certain famous jet from the middle ages that was said to be built around its weapon. Fed Eng. A: Brrrrrrrrrrrt? Fed Eng. B: BRRRRRRRRRRRT
It would've made a big difference if the A-10 & its GAU-8 Avenger gatling gun were there in the One Year War, it could've shredded the Zaku into pieces, or @ least reduce turn it into Swiss cheese, but it would have a problem when it goes up against the MSM-03 Gogg mobile suit that almost reminds me of Juggernaut from X-Men.
@@nedinnis6752 The closest thing in SEED we got to the A-10 was the IWSP pack, which had a 30mm gun in its shield. ...DAMMIT, CAGALI, couldn't you have been just a LITTLE better as a pilot? I would've killed to have seen the IWSP in action in Destiny.
I still say the funniest thing the Federation tried fighting mobile suits with was the Vulcan Armored Car. In all actuality, it was a half track with an absolutely massive 60mm Vulcan cannon mounted on it. If you've never heard of it, it tried to fight the Gogg and lost horribly.
I mean it's not a terrible idea really and it was probably extremely cost effective, to remove a mobile suit from a battle you don't actually need to destroy it you just need to destroy it's optics and a huge gattling can do that easily.
@@hedgehog3180 Problem is, its round is to small (being the same size as the head vulcans on the RX78), it showed incredibly poor gen elevation rendering it unable to hit optics, and it was fighting the Gogg, arguably one of the most heavily armored things Zeon built in the OYW that wasn't a mobile armor. While I don't doublte it could have taken on Zaku's, as Amuro was shown to have scored at least one kill purely with the vulcans, by the time it was seen in anime, it was VASTLY outdated.
They didnt though.. the Zeeks worked very hard to defeat the Zeeks and i find it distastefull that some tanks and fighter planes claim that honor for themselves :P
I like when mecha franchises can keep established military designs, like tanks and strike craft, relevant while still keeping the main focus on the mechs. Good combined arms isn't common enough in sci fi.
I mean despite the advantages of mobile suits being able to be bigger than standard military units while also being highly mobile, there are just things that only these standard military units can do that the mobile suits simply couldn't.
@@alfianfahmi5430 There's also the issue of cost. A fighter bomber and a tank might together still be several times as cheap as a mech, and history has taught us that more numbers can be the way to victory. Just look at WWII. The flashiest, highest spec gear means a lot less when you can't make it in meaningful numbers or enough units to support them.
@@bthsr7113 That is also what kinda sorta happened to Zeon. Their gelgoogs performed really badly because they had green cadets in them, and werent produced in big enough numbers to really change the outcome of the war
@@riptors9777 they lost 70% of their trained troops during the Battle of Loum, and later operation British, which didn't really help when they couldn't really replace any solider. Them deciding to land on Earth was probably the greatest game-changer. This was partly why most of the EFF high command was against the idea of operation V. They believed with enough casualties taken they could still win the war, which isn't false considering the Odessa campaign only had less than 50 MS deployed on the federation side including all of the prototypes (e.g. guntanks) but it would definitely be a lot harder for EFF to push on the space front
The scene from one of the Gihren's Greed games where a troop of tanks ambushes a Zaku II is always great. The Gundam's critical role was in absolutely decimating the Zeon ace pilots as they threw most of their top pilots into a grinder trying to stop the White Devil. Obviously they had more aces but after the launch of Operation Star One the Zeke aces were getting killed faster than they could get replaced and higher performance suits like the Rick Dom and the Gelgoog performed poorly with green pilots and cadets
Not to mention the data from the Gundam gave MS pilots not only (and probably normal soldiers) a better idea on what they were facing, but also allowed their hardware and software to fine-tune the capabilities of their equipment.
MS IGLOO felt like it had too much of a hard on for mobile suits though. Like it shouldn't take an entire tank platoon to kill a Zaku, a single tank lying in ambush should easily be able to do that. That's sorta the whole point of Gundam, that Mobile Suits aren't magically better at everything than traditional weapons but are a new invention for a specific new theater of war, that theater being space. MS IGLOO in that way was just really disappointing to me in every way, it felt like the people behind it just unconditionally loved Zeon and mobile suits.
@@hedgehog3180 "MS IGLOO in that way was just really disappointing to me in every way, it felt like the people behind it just unconditionally loved Zeon and mobile suits." This pretty much tbh, MS IGLOO had some ok bits in it but another Zeon robot fest? ZZZzzzzzzzzzz..
@@hedgehog3180 Saying "A single tank can kill a Zaku if it just walks up into optimal range and doesn't notice you lining up a shot on it" is like saying "A single infantryman can defeat a Zaku if it trips and gets itself stuck in a ditch, forcing the pilot to climb out so the single infantryman can shoot him". Zaku teams were highly mobile and the chances of conventional tanks executing a perfect ambush and achiving a critical hit on the very first shot is very low. In warfare, generally it is the side with the better mobility (especially in rough terrain!) who ambushes the less mobile side.
Line of sight is longer than people think, especially in the desert were hit and kills of targets a lot smaller than a zaku at 3 km or longer. Also, the zakus 90mm autocannon might as well as be a spitball against modern tanks
It's really weird knowing that the type 61 tank fires larger rounds than most MS with its 150mm-155mm cannons, any yet is always portrayed as being ineffective when actually landing hits
@Stardust Alteisen It's a 150-155mm Gun, if that thing follows BASIC MBT weaponry tech, it fires an APDSFS, which means that MS pilots have to react to at VERY MINIMUM, a dart flying at 1440m/s, which i doubt is that low for a 15cm gun firing a subcalibre dart. And i doubt ANY UC pre MS advent MBT would somehow lack Anti-Armor munitions, including HEAT, HESH/HEDP (Plastic explosives warhead, once it hits a surface target, it molds (squashes) onto the surface then quickly detonates, anything behing the impact surface is showered in shrapnel and concusive shockwave, this also means it has decent HE properties which means a MS internals are likely to take severe damage), AP solid shot, APHE and APDS/APDSFS. And if the Optical Coincidence rangefinder is AUTOMATED, it means it won't take an eternity to even range a target, and it's also visible that MOST Federation MBTs engage MS from preemptively mobilized positions, so any half decent crew is likely to have their FoV ranges noted within time permissions (at very least rangefind a structure down range to have some estimative)
@Scarface 1 The GM's 100mm rifle will do more damage in a burst but the shells don't have the same stopping power to a 150mm cannon. Especially if they are firing APFSDS. Consider that today, various militaries have already found that the 120mm L/54 was already reaching its limit in penetration power. To give you a image of the power of an 150mm gun, and SU-152 could straight rip off the turret of a Tiger I tank. Now imagine a 150mm cannon firing an APFSDS dart weighing in at 8 or 10kg going at speed of up to and above 1,500m/s and multiply that force by two. The point is that the Type 61 has IMPRESSIVE burst damage that would knock out most mobile suits realistic.
Debatable on the rate of fire, in msigloo 2 the m61a5 with its 155mm cannon could fire a round about every 3 seconds, if my math is right thats 20 rounds a minute and with two barrels that brings it up to 40 rpm
@Scarface 1 We see the Type 61 achieve pretty crazy RPM in Igloo tho. With a 3 second reload on each guns which gives it crazy amounts of power. In 10 seconds that would be spitting out 6 rounds
As a Gihren's Ambition player, I'm always happy to see some appreciation for the vital non-MS, non-MA, non-Capital units. This is a great video with some good clips, such as the Type-61 barrage at 3:20. I know Gundam's got an anti-war message in most of its series, but I also love the war-machine analysis you can pull off with the tech in game. This is [ Mobile Suit Gundam ], and the [ Mobile Suits ] are the stars of the series - but I still feel like there's more room to give other units in the military more screen time, and allow them to remain more of a threat. The tanks vs. mech issue will always remain hotly debated. There's logical reasons and literary reasons for both sides of the argument, both as a general rule and within the Gundam Franchise itself. I'm not here to decide whether or not one or the other should win - I'm here to say that it "feels" better when both can actually put their best performance on, for lack of a better term. From what I can google, the Type-61's maximum speed is supposedly faster than the Zaku-II Ground Typeby about 5 kmh - which is impressive, considering the tank carries a traditional reactor and the MS packs a compact nuclear reactor. Of course -neither- unit can fight at max speed as effectively, yet I imagine both the tanks and mecha implement stabilization and similar corrective mechanisms to keep on target while moving. We can do this with modern hardware. But I can't think of any battles at even a cruising speed between ground vehicles and MS - not besides the desert rebels on humvees versus the BuCue's of SEED's Africa arc. I'm not deciding that one or the other should win, but I think it's more impactful for the narrative and presentation to see tanks as something other than -only- lumbering, plodding beasts. Seeing the winner triumph after an effort rather than effortlessly brushing aside the opposition feels, to me in particular, to be more exciting. This wall of text - honestly me just gushing - has gone on far too long, but I think I've made my point without being confusing? Hopefully? Then again it being so long probably makes it more confusing...
I love the look on that Zaku's face when it looked around the corner and was like WTF, Where'd it go?! then turns and looks to its right to see a shit ton of 61s on the highway aiming at it and has that 'Ohh... Fuck...' Also, that Depp Rog made me think of a B-29 with that forward mutli windowed section...
It very much is a "Eh, maybe there is a tank out there, one tank isn't a threat" [turns around corner to find an entire company of tanks] EFGF Captain: "Company... open fire"
@@VhenRaTheRaptor in that case its "Holy fuck! How did I not see them there when I came around the corner?!" *gets rekt* (And really how did the Zaku miss the telltale signatures the sensors should pick up at that close of range?!)
@@Feiora What signatures? You know you can fight in a tank with the engine shut off... and if that thing's power system runs more electrical then modern tanks [with the power plant simply feeding electricity to everything], it could have enough battery capacity to simply sit there completely cold waiting for the Zaku to come around the corner.
@@VhenRaTheRaptor Hmm... I assumed they were freshly moved into that position because its a less than ideal position cover wise, which is what I dont understand actually cause if you watch the zaku carefully he looked right then left and then further left before standing out and only then glancing right once he was out of cover completely... A decent look to the right should have alerted him to the trap with all the barrels sticking out over the edge on the roadway...
@@Feiora I mean we can probably safely assume that the Type 61 probably is designed to try to hide it's thermal signature and in general be difficult to see. It's something that tank designers are already considering today so like a tank designed 100 years in the future probably has some systems for this. For example it could have something similar to submarines where it can run it's propulsion from a battery so it can charge the battery for a bit and then shut off the engine which would make it almost impossible to detect with IR and sound (on a battlefield that is).
Lest anyone accuse you of exaggerating, the Zaku Cannon was created with battling planes in-mind due to how thoroughly outgunned Zeon was in air superiority. Wonder if that's part of why we don't see the Gouf Flight Type so much, since while it's neat, it probably would have got turned into swiss cheese in most battles.
The Gouf was a very very expensive machine with a limited production run, then add an experimental flight system onto it, then add the strained logistics and lack of resources and the gouf flight type simply became a victim of circumstances Not that it could actually fly, it could hover and jump/glide at most, everything else would quickly overload its flight system.
@@riptors9777 we did see that from Thunderbolt where the cult used Gouf flight type, which descended from the lying platforms while getting shot down by GMs and turrets. It's pretty funny in a way that they even considered using that to take air superiority.
Used the zaku cannon in battle operations 2 and despite some mobility problems compared to other support mobile suits, i cleaned house with it a lot, it’s definitely an older mobile suit I could count on in the game.
Imagine never having air superiority before EFF was a security force and EFAF was pretty much none-existence, and then they mobilized. This is what made the OG gundam so great. No super weapon can save you. It is, at the end of the day, a war of attrition that ZEON lost within the first week. PS Depp rog and the manta are only developed after the mobilization of the EFF, about 1 month into the war during which most of Europe and America was lost. Note that Odessa only had 32 Mobilesuits, of which only about 20 were GM ground types.
I think even without amuro and white base, federation would still win with their overwhelming resources (gm and other versions of gundam were already in development when amuro got the gundam), but instead of "one year war" now it's "one and a hald year war" or "two year war". Amuro, gundam and white base only accelerate the process.
The White Base mainly functioned as a magnet for every single issue Zeon had, their fascist glory hunting, their obsession with mobile suits because they invented them, their dictatorship which meant that the family of the dictator had to be treated as above everyone else and the murderers of those family members of course had to be treated as literal demons. And so on and so forth. It's like how the real life Nazis ended up abandoning all rational ideas for pursuing a war and probably accelerated their own defeat because of their Nazism.
They would have lost or atleast the war would have come to a standstill. The traitor and nuke at odessa would have cost the EF most of their earth bound forces (not to mention revil) and the attack on jaburo would have been a success. Not to mention that Zeon would have kept alot of their senior staff, garma and alot of experienced officers. And you need experienced officers. Also Zeon was so preoccupied with Project V and the white base that they used up alot of their intelligence resources to follow the whitebase around, completly ignoring everything else. Wich then meant they where all suprised picachu face when the first EF built Mobile suits where encountered on the battlefield cause they had believed that Project V and the white base where necesary for the EF to build their own mobile suits.
@@hedgehog3180 This. The pursuit of nationalist glory on the battlefield frequently results in bizarre strategic decisions, centered around creating and displaying expensive wonder weapons, campaigns of iconoclasm, and pushing narratives of being the elite of the elite. Headhunting heroes at the expense of winning battles, undercomitting to vital operations, throttling their own industrial production, being easy to bait into disastrous strategic and tactical decisions in the pursuit of glory and posture, and more. White Base was a masterful exploitation of these flaws.
Really hard to find kits of these because they are all so obscure. The Type 61 does have a few kits and the one that comes with the Zaku Ground War Set (best kit of it so far) is so damn rare you wont find any.
This is sadly so true. Thingiverse has the 3d print file so you can 3d print your own Type-61 tanks If you want a ton of them. But other than that the EX mechanics line has the jet core booster and gunperry. If you really want an obscure kit like the planes mentioned here it’s gonna be B-club resin kits off of GK-M model shop online. They are so expensive though. I bought a saber fish from them it was like 60 or 70 usd
M61A5 had a twin set 1/144 kit that comes with 2 hover trucks. I am not sure whether others had a kit or not but the set was for MS Igloo 2, which didn't really saw action for other crafts outside of the fork class and big tray.
@@benlex5672 yep I have a few of both ground war sets that those came in. GK M online has 1/144 resin kits for the saber fish. But it would be so nice if Bandai made 1/144 Medea, public, saber fish, big tray and other vehicles.
@@rogue_newtype4364 Bandai made a prototype 1/1700 big tray. Sad that it never made it considering they made multiple ships for the Yamato Franchise. I'd still buy it if it was a 1/2000 scale.
Zeon had 1/8th the resources of the EF. The introduction of mobile suits gave the POZ the push they needed to put the EF on its heels for a while. But once the EF learned how to counter the POZs mobile suits and introduced their own it was game over for Zeon.
I love, love, love that the super prototype is important for the story, but in the overall OYW it didn't single-handedly win the war by any means, and really didn't even turn the war around on its own.
It did however take out some key players and key machines like the newtype corps. If amura hadnt killed Lalah that could have cost the Federation dearly since Lalah could destroy entire fleets with her newtype machines. Also it was VERY successfull in its role as a diversion for Zeon wich wasted massive amounts of resources chasing after the thing. Also it prevented the death of Revil at Odessa by foiling the traitor AND taking down a nuke So yeah not winning the war, but it had a big role in ending it
Type 61's are great, being in one against anything above a Zaku though, prey to god your at a functional firing angle. GBO2 illistrates the feeling perfectly, your too slow, if an MS steps on you or hits you with melee have fun, and while you can hit the legs with your main cannons, a couple of 60mm rounds is all it really takes to blow you up
I wish more gundam shows showed the support units as more than targets. Ibo mobile workers come to mind as in s1 they were the main force when they could not use ahab reactors
I am a big fan of grunt stuff tbqh. I do like the tanks and fighter jets. Hell when it comes to the suits I love the Gms and grunt suits. I actually kinda like the GM more than a Zaku because they just feel more like a grunt
Air supremacy was the deciding factor on the earth front. Zeon's Dopp, luggun and Gaw aircraft had poor aerodynamics. They were maneuverable but probably had poor energy retention and quickly overheated their engines constantly boosting in a dogfight. Being a fighter pilot on earth wasn't that bad unlike being a space fighter pilot. Countless fly manta and Saberfish pilots probably made ace status killing Dopps
I think some people need to rewatch the original series again and pay attention because throughout the series it is repeatedly stated that the White Base has little to no actual influence on the war and instead served mainly as propaganda and as a distraction for Zeon. The Earth Federation military was lead by competent commanders unlike Zeon and they quickly realized that Zeon was putting way too much effort into destroying this one ship compared to what it was doing, like during it's entire cruise in Asia they only destroyed a couple dozen mining bases out of hundreds, so they decided to play on it and they literally say this repeatedly in the series. The crew of the White Base as well repeatedly make this observation that they have a relatively small impact on the war while the Federation Army is the one actually pushing Zeon back. And this is then first illustrated at the Battle of Odessa where while millions of Federation soldiers push the Zeon forces back over hundreds of km while the White Base is mostly just sitting in the back and running interference, and the point is repeated at Solomon and A Baoa Qu where the White Base while one of the most advanced Federation ships and having some of the best pilots still is just one of many, Amuro shoots down about two dozen mobile suits and I think two Musais but that's out of thousands of mobile suits and several fleets of Musais. Yet throughout much of this Zeon kept throwing away it's resources to try to destroy the White Base, which meant that the White Base of course could always just remain on the defensive and were often just given huge advantages by overeager Zeon commanders looking for personal glory. And they often did this at critical moments like Odessa, and in the lead up to A Baoa Qu, sending away some of their top of the line units to fight someone who even if they're killed will mean nothing to the war effort. In the very early stages destroying the White Base meant sabotaging the V Project but sometime after they had reached Luna 2 it seems like they got all the data they wanted from it and it really doesn't matter anymore.
The white base and the gundam HAD a major impact on the war in 2 key moments, though one is arguably more important then the other. The first and more important one was when they took down the EF traitor and the nuke at odessa. Both of these could have caused horrible damage to the EFs ground forces (early death of Revil) and could possibly have changed the outcome of the battle for jaburo with the loss of manpower. The second one was taking out Dozle Zabi in the big Zam wich was about to completly wreck part of the EFs space fleet attacking Solomon. The loss of Dozle who was a genuinly beloved leader of Zeon was a heavy blow to Zeons morale, and alot of their officer staff allready saw the writing on the wall after his fall, especially those that had been loyal to Dozle above any other Zabi. Other then that the white base was allmost solely responsible for taking out an entire Cadre of Zeons top aces and commanders. Rhamba Ral, Mcqueve, the black tri stars heck even Garma Zabi wouldnt have died if it hadnt been for his encounter with the white base. (Though char helped out with that) Also the EF had "some" competent leadership, just like Zeon had. But the top brass was, just like Zeon, rotten to the core, inept and corrupt. What the EF had that Zeon didnt was logistics, manpower and more advanced technology. (MS held beam weaponry was a complete game changer on the battlefield since it completly negated armor protection of the day)
Amusingly in GG there is a legit way to wipe off zeon from Earth with tanks, planes, and Guntanks. A White Base has the accuracy and firepower to take out Zaku II F-s.
Where have you been in the past....20 years? Kidding...Welcome to the Gihren's Greed gang! A classic of my childhood, my favorite toilet game ever (installed on the phone)
I can't get past more than a dozen turns before I get frustrated with the lack of translations. This game needs a modern remake more than any game i have ever seen!
Like Revil said in Origin. It’s not only a fight that will decided the outcome of war but resources wise Zeon couldn’t win against Federation in any sense because lack of manpower and resources. In the later war Zeon practically strap with anything they could find and the newer mobiles suit were too diversified for it to give any advantage. Compare to federation production scale of whole earth.
I wonder if out of all the people over the decades who have watched Gundam, if at least any one viewer came for the robots and then decided their favorite was a non mobile suit/armor
I'm disappointed that the core block system was never used for GMs, because then we can get more of the unsung hero of the original Gundam anime, the core fighter. Absolutely love that funky little dude
It has always seemed to me that the only reason why the Federation forces felt the need for mobile suits of their own is that their tank crew and fighter/Ball pilots just can't resist the temptation of doing melee with mobile suits. But then again, since mobile suits are the stars of the franchise, I have to let this one slide. I chose to watch the shows after all.
No, the Federation felt the need for mobile suits because their conventional forces were suffering horrendous casualties against Zeon mobile suits. In the early phase of Zeon's assault drop on earth, the effect of the Zakus was so demoralizing that Federation ground forces often routed without even putting up a fight.
I'm happy that the other units have been covered, but I disagree about the Gundam. It didn't win the whole war by itself or anything but I feel that if Chars attack on side 7 had succeeded in destroying the V Project completely and resulted in the death of the original cast, that would have been it for the Federation in the long run. The forces Char and Garma lost would still be around, Garma would be alive, Ramba Ral and his people would still be alive, the Black Tri Stars may be around at Odessa. Who knows if Amuro not being around to expose the traitorous general Elran may have resulted in a Federation lose at Odessa. Since Zeon followed the White Base to Jaburo, maybe the attack that ended up failing wouldn't have happened, or perhaps they would have discovered it anyway and launched a successful attack? If the war somehow turned around on Zeon anyway, all the ships and mobile suits that Amuro took out before the battle of Solomon would be present and who is going to handle the Big Zam? The New Type Corps is going to rampage around virtually unchallenged. It's hard to say what happens overall but the idea that the Gundam being not all that important is very wrong in my opinion.
I disagree 100%. The white base was nearly inconsequential to the Earth Federation victory. This isn't like Luke blowing up the death start seconds before in incinerated the entire rebel high command. The RX78-2 was nothing more than a test unit for the core block system, which the federation basically decided not to even incorporate into its military. The Federation used White base as nothing more than a distraction decoy for Zeon forces following them all around their backfield. The Federation had ALREADY built 4 more fully functional Gundams, 2 more pegasus carriers, a fleet of warships and hundreds of GMs and Balls. By the time white base got to Jaburo the Federation was ready to launch the counter offensive. It was more of a hazard for Jaburo letting White Base reveal their location. There was NO WAY the federation was going to lose at Odessa. They outnumbered Zeon 5 to 1 in troops, 3:1 in tanks, 9:1 in air power, and 2:1 in land battleships. And Amuro wasn't even the only Gundam at Jaburo as the Entire 08th MS Ground Gundam team was there along with the Gundam Pixie. Earth federation would have taken more casualties but the outcome was a certain federation win. As to the point of Ramba Ral, he was only re-activated specifically to hunt the White Base. If they had not existed, he would have still been in retirement. And if Char destroyed side 7 he would have remained in space as a cruiser captain and found some other way to take his revenge on the Zabis. Solomon was basically OVER when the Solar Flare system is fired. The number of ms and ships that Amuro took down is nothing compared to the super weapon. Yes the Big Zam rampaged all over the field, but all Dozle was doing was buying time for Zenna to evac. He also had no real bearing on the outcome. I think you missed that one of the main themes of Gundam is that Individuals have no REAL effect on the outcome of armies. Even super heroes and aces on both sides can only fight to protect the people directly around them. Individual soldiers are meaningless to the meatgrinder of war.
another thing that would be a problem if the gundam was never made is the apsalus 3 would launch without any major problems and promptly destroy jaburo. Because the only thing that gave it problems were ground gundams and gms
Aces don’t matter that much during the war. Morale boosters they might be, but nothing unkillable on the ground when you have the AirPower. I do agree with you on the side of space though as WB pretty much wiped out most ZEON ace units that provides obstacles that cannot simply be overcome without the V project itself. The federation without the V project would be fighting these with Zaku-IIs at best. However other than that it would still be a minor obstacle due to the sheer size of the EFF and the solar ray systems
Lt. woody from jaburo was right saying one gundam would not win the war by itself. The feds have other v project prototypes on Earth for deployment . Amuro was right about the feds using the white base crew post side 7 incident as decoy test subjects.
Yeah, this is the starting plan when I play as the Feds in PS1 Gihren's Greed. If you mass produce them enough, they'll hold the ground just fine until you get your MS forces together. If I play as Zeon, I produce a Magella tank, separate the two portions, and "repair" them both to make two full Magella tanks, and then repeat. That way, I don't have to wait for the building time or building slots to open up. Instant battalion.
There's 2 non-MS vehicles I like, one in the UC timeline & the other in an alternate universe. The 1st one is the Core Fighter bcoz it's modular & packs a punch w/ guns & missiles, & not bcoz it's an escape unit system 4 certain machines. The 2nd is the Skygrasper, while it fought on Earth in Gundam SEED, it reminds of a fictional space fighter from the game (& on the front cover of) Wing Commander Prophecy.
It’s awesome to see information of lesser known vehicles from the Gundam universe. Be cool if Bandai would come out with model kits of these lesser known vehicles
its better yet when they actually delivered more than people think. specially the ball and the 61. as a side note, this video explains why there was such a rush for transformable machines in zeta.
Did the land battleships ever actually accomplish much, though? I may be misremembering but they seemed to be nothing but big fat targets for mobile suits.
Maybe the next list should be about the most competent UC commanders, cause you would have to be in order to coordinate the anti MS strategies used by the type 61 and other conventional weapons.
So, basically, after the failure of Operation British and the early Zeon blitz, the Federation had enough resources to wear Zeon down using their then current weapons technology. The propaganda win of getting General Revil back from Zeon custody and his empassioned speech about Zeon's limitations for long-term warfare also had a big impact, rallying non-military combatants and possibly driving recruitment of the Federation's most important resource: human soldiers. The destruction of Sides 1, 2, and 4 were likely a tactical decision to destroy as many Federation human resources as possible using minimal resources. As a random aside, Fly Mantas are extremely useful in Gihren's Greed games before you get access to mobile suits, largely because they are cheap and work on air and ground targets.
Zeon's biggest mistake was arrogantly trying to invade and occupy the entire earth simultaneously. They basically threw away the massive advantage in strategic mobility that they had by committing everything to the assault at once and leaving little in reserve, allowing inferior Federation forces to grind them down through attrition.
The Type-61s really owe a big part of their success in Odessa to the Gundam. Amuro took out the Tri-Stars and eliminating Ramba Ral and Garma's Gaws while also disgracing Char definitely didn't do them any favors.
I don't think that massively changed the outcome of the battle though. The tactics of the Tri-Stars would be terrible on such a huge battlefield like Odessa, I mean what are they gonna do jet stream attack an entire front line stretching hundreds of km with tanks and aircraft everywhere? That's a ticket to get shot down before you even fire off a shot, their tactics worked great in space and when fighting other mobile suits but they don't work when the air is so filled with shots that you can't dodge at all. Same with Ramba Ral, though less so because he is also a very capable commander, but at the end of the day good command can do very little against overwhelming odds. Garma is irrelevant because he's actually in North America (yes this makes no sense but that's the official canon) and also it seems like only part of his force was destroyed by the White Base since we see the Gaws in large numbers once again during the attack on Jaburo. And even if none of this is true Zeon was at a much bigger disadvantage than any of these could make up, the Tri-stars are only 3 dudes, Ramba Ral commanded perhaps a few hundred and Grama had a few thousand perhaps (though it's hard to estimate), but Odessa was a battle of millions. They wouldn't have done nothing and obviously it would have helped Zeon if they hadn't pissed away all their resources on a grudge against some teenagers but I don't think it was critical in the Federation winning the battle, it's more a question of how bloody a victory it is. The bigger effect is probably the psychological one where M'Queve had to keep units at his rear in fear of the White Base, and the general disruption it caused to Zeon communications in Asia before the offiensive.
I have an off topic question for the question of the week. In gundam unicorn what's the name of that EFSF ship that crashed into the mountain that neo zeon forces had been using for a base and how did they and the ship get there.
The Type 61 for my favor. Put enough of them on the front lines and 3 squads of Zakus will get recked. But lest we forget the humble fighter copters. Many a time at California base would I or one of my squad get taken out by these pests. Shout out to Gundam Zeonic Front.
Well not necessarily, it could just be a lot of explosives. Anti-ship missiles tend to be a lot bulkier than ATGMs or AAMs since they're hitting much larger targets that would need more punch to take out in one go.
At least two or three of those machines appeared in Mobile Suit Gundam Crossfire on the PS3 and have on occasion screwed missions over by blowing up the supply base, delivering that last kill shot, destroying a limb, or actually shooting the gun out of your mobile suit’s hands. They’re a threat in Crossfire because of how fragile certain targets can be and the severity of taking damage in the game in general.
Was there ever an occasion of the federation using captured zakus in the early war period? It would only make sense, kinda like the germans lagely used second hand british tanks in WWl before they could produce their own designs. An outdated enemy suit is still better than none at all. Also as shown by zeta the feds were definately interested in adopting and expanding on the zaku series so l could definately see them at least comsidering it.
Yeah they would paint them white (or white and blue) and mainly used them for training vehicles since the data they could gather for reverse engineering them was too valuable to put them on the field. Some of the Zaku spare parts would be used to create the RRf-06 Zanny (or SRf-06 Dahle) which was a step closer to the federation having their own mobile suits.
imagine being a feddie ground soldier, pinned down by a zaku, accepting your last rites, before hearing the whirring of aircraft engines and instantly knowing that you're gonna be alright
What series is the 3:30 scene from? I've tried searching for it on google and youtube but the only Type 61 vs Zaku II scenes I can find are from MS IGLOO 2.
The Core Booster is my favorite machine. And based on The 08th MS team they made A LOT of them. (note, it is the core booster fighter and not the Core Block With Booster) They are actually more powerful in the air than any mobile suit until maybe the time of Zeta gundam.
There's 2 ways to get a Type 61 model. A pair of 1/144 models come with the Ground War Set Zaku 2 and there's a larger kit, along the same scale as typical tank models at 1/35 scale, in the --EX-Model-- line. EDIT: It's the *Hard Graph* line, not EX-Model.
I have a question, why didn't the Federation make upscale tanks. I mean, why not make larger tanks with heavier cannons or at least heavy missile platforms that could support the mobile suites in the background at least.
I love how the type 61 is just a cold war era tank design with an extra barrel, and the Deep Rog is just a ww2 era bomber cockpit with space capsule duct taped onto it.
Igloo showed a good amount of anti-MS fighting for sure. Truly, though, at least in head canon, I would think the Federation Navy served the greatest resistance to the Zeon in the early parts of the war. Until they finally had Amphibious mobile suits and subs and ships of their own, the Zeon lacked weapons for +60% of the Earth's surface. With surface to surface missiles and the airborne power you mentioned deployed from carriers to meet the Zeon from a distance, it's understandable why the war came to a ceasefire half way through the year.
Infestus, heli, VTOL attack fighter, linear gun tank, linear artillery, Guul, Compact armored vehicle are my favorite cosmic era vehicles that get even less appreciated
@Stardust Alteisen that’s because of MS plot armor and NJ effects on long range warfare. That linear gun is suppose to fire like a coil gun or Gauss gun, making that sabot round go shatter a BuCue legs at range. But plot armor protects MS from reality.
Sounds about right. Historically, new technology generally doesn't play a major deciding factor in the war it is introduced. For example, the American civil war saw some of the first practical repeating rifles, but both sides still predominantly used muskets. Tanks and aircraft were present in WWI, but they were more of a curiosity, as tank and fighter doctrine hadn't been established. While there have been true game changers like Radar, aircraft carriers, and WMDs, these tend to be rare. I imagine that Mobile suits were so terrifying to the Earth Federation early in the war because it was a new weapon, not necessarily a better one. It simply had no experience in fighting them with conventional forces, and thus had no doctrine in regards of how to counter them.
Yeah it kinda is, though on the other hand it might also kinda the same situation that lead to that myth. The reason why that myth exists is because US tanks always operated in platoons of 4 tanks so there'd never be a situation where less than 4 Shermans were fighting together, unless one had been knocked out earlier in that same battle. Perhaps a similar thing is happening here and Type 61's always operate in platoons of 4 and there's two platoons working together here with one loss or there's 8 in a platoon with one loss or there's just 7 in a platoon. So when this group is setting up an ambush they would of course set it up so they can all see their target. But also I have to be honest, it was made like that because whoever directed it had no concept of how real warfare worked and thought that a tank is obviously not capable of killing a cool mobile suit all on it's own.
@@hedgehog3180 Another interesting scenario in MS IGLOO 2: Gravity of the Battlefront episode two when two platoons (technically 9 tanks as false information leaked to the enemy lead them to believe 8 until the battles end when the ninth destroyed the final enemy Zaku that let their guard down at the battles conclusion.) fought against 3 Zaku's including the Ace Elmer "The White Ogre" Snell, the 61's had an advantage as they were fighting in a former battlefield where destroyed tanks and vehicles were still giving off residual heat and nullified the Zaku's Thermal optics from seeing the enemy and got ambushed, they used smoke and cat and mouse tactics and ended up destroying two of the three Zakus but by the end lost all eight Type 61's, The Ogre claiming victory is shot by his rival Harmen Yandell that hid until the battle was thought over. His 61 using APFSDS rounds to pen his backpack and take him out. Not sure if you could call it a Pyrrhic federation victory or not as even after all Zaku's are destroyed the final tank is destroyed by an Anti Tank patrol with the driver being the sole survivor, but the Feds did destroy three Zaku's along with an ace and in all that those three Zaku's were lead away from their main force to fight as they knew their main force was walking into a trap with no enemies.
@@kakarot197 It's basically a ripped off DUCK from Nazi Germany, a Twin engine attack aircraft that either carried 20mm cannons, long barrel 30mm or a 37mm Autocannon gunpod, up to an adapted PaK 75mm gun, yes, germans used a heavy, underpowered plane to do the job the Warthog did for the US in Cold war (the engines were BARELLY able to keep it flight capable with the 75mm gun, that and the fact the pilot had 90mm thick bulletproof glass on all the cockpit windows and up to 12mm thick armored plates for the cockpit).
@@andrehashimoto8056 The US also did it with the PBJ, and so did both Japan and Italy actually. So I think it's a bit unfair to say they ripped off the Duck when it's an idea many people tried out.
I’ sorry,but while you were talking about the Type 61 I just flashed back to the first mission of Zeonic Front where the tank driver was all “ohhhhhh crap it’s a Zaku!” 😅
Oddly enough I like hearing about the non-mecha vehicles in mecha settings wars are rarely won by one machine alone and seeing how vehicles adapt to new war machines is interesting.
Can you do a video like this for Alternate universe machines Gorby 2 GN Arms when not equipped Gundam Wing transport ships Fuunsaiki, the best support mecha
yet here's the thing is other media like the early gundam vs games like federation vs Zeon the type 61 just did nothing it just moved around and that was all it did in the game but games like zeonic front did put the fear of the type 61 as a threat in that game
the best part of this video is how it basically explains why there was such a mad dash for a transformable machine on zeta. i still think its borderline useless for hybrids(space-earth) machines. and things like a dedicated hit and run machine like the deep striker makes far more sense(if ALOT cheaper). the only space machine that makes sense to have a transformation is the messala as it was basically developed to escape jupter's pull. so having a mode that made it easier makes far more sense there.
We're there more federation zaku's other than the one from Ms.Igloo? Ooohhh the core booster. I hope that we get a video on its variants and maybe including the g-fighter
In some Gihren's Greed cutscenes about project V, a captured Zaku II is used for testing and I remember another cutscene where one was being airlifted.
Yes there where, the Federation was desperate to capture enemy mobile suits. There was even a conversion Zaku called a Zanny that was a Zakus body with federation build parts like a new head etc. It had horrible performance but allowed the Feds to learn alot about construction of mobile suits
There are quite a lot. almost half of Federation's MS participating in the Odessa Campaign were captured/fixed-mobile suit, and after GM went into full production ZakuII became the trainer craft for new pilots well into 0081. Part of the reason why high command was against operation V was also because they were able to capture MS on their own.
I've always loved the FFB-7Bst; it just always struck me as a practical evolution of the original Core Booster, when mass-produced without the need for mobile suit compatibility.
Would love a new model kit line for non ms/ma. I think they would sell well for Gundam fans and those that are fans of tanks and planes. Easy money in my opinion
In the case of the battle of Solomon the PUBLICS assualt boats would have had to make a death star run on the bigzam mobile armor prototype with it 5 mega particle cannons
The point is that the beam diffusing missles would be overloaded by the big zam main weapon the mega particle cannon. Plus, the fast and agile mobile armor would cut the distance before the publics would be able fire off thier missles
I wonder if there was a composite wing of Saberfish and Balls working as a unit before GM is a thing. We know 3 GMs and 2 Balls work as a fire team but imagine a 3 Saberfish and 2 Balls?
Nah.. not really.. the saberfish was the Type 61 of space: completly outdated and outgunned by basic Zaku 2s. The fly manta on the other hand had no equivalent on Zeons side, the Dopps where a bad joke. So it was pretty much unchallanged
Honestly, this is overselling their roll a bit- they were critical for stalling out and preventing the Federation from being completely overrun but they didn't 'win" the war, it was the GM that did that. The GM is the underappreciated hero of the OYW as upon rollout it was already a significant step up compared to the Zaku II: more durable armor, capable of using beam weapons, and almost twice the acceleration
This video bring back my memory of HOI 4 One year war mod playing as the federation and the only thing that help me hold the line is the gigantic tank army with a bunch of meh to terrible commander (I am looking at you Jamitov) and dozen of 10 stack forts that I built to hold the line until the colony drop debuff go away.
The gundam indeed played part in many key battles but for the most part the gundam and White base was pretty much the ultimate decoy that the zeon waisted much resources on.
That's why always wished 08th ms team was 50 episodes. We probably would have seen more of the tank and air forces of both sides. That's my main desire to see a 50 episode gundam series of the oyw that shows just normal soldiers of both sides. I know Ms igloo and 08th Ms team are the closest that will ever happen though.
2:36 - Ah yes, the Type 61 MBT... The bastard love child of the real-life M1 Abrams and the Apocalypse tank from the Red Alert game series... I wish it was a premium vehicle in World of Tanks or in War Thunder...
![5 Reasons Why Zeon Lost The One Year War [Remastered]](/img/n.gif)
It's time to d-d-d-dowload Opera GX!: mtchm.de/i1kw3
Check out my Ball Development History too!: th-cam.com/video/a-Okpc2ZL20/w-d-xo.html
As a fan of the Yugioh GX dub, I salute the references.
You could definitely make a series out of this.
Another video on the other non-MS units of the federation, then one or two on Zeon's non-MS units, then all the non-MS units from all the AU series.
dowload
And now I’m a little disappointed that Bandai hasn’t made these kinds of fighters or tanks into kits
Man I have to say we rarely seen Type 61 doing some kickass action on the battlefield, I hope one day we can see non MS feddies vehicle can show their numerical advantage.
I know Gundam is all about mobile suits, but I am happy to see the non-MS getting love
Tanks regular tanks fought off zaku's for almost a full year credit to the pilots for running interference till operation Odessa
@@KudaGeatsune3821 between them and the anti-MS infantry that would run about them was crazy. Many Fedies died to retake Earth.
Same, I've always been a huge fan of the M61A5, I wish there were more model kits that came with it/ it's own personal kit in 144 scale
What makes Gundam, Gundam though is the inclusion of all of those things that aren't Mobile Suits.
Yeah, good to know our "balls of steel" are getting noticed. Hope they get some love. XD
That scene with the Zaku getting ambushed and visibly going "oh...fuck" is still one of my favorite moments from the entire Gundam franchise.
Do you remember were that is from?
@@TwilightNoirZ26 It's a cutscene from one of the games, can't remember which one exactly though.
@@TwilightNoirZ26 Its from the playstation one Ghirens Greed/ambition grand strategy game i think. Theres lots more of these little cutscenes. To bad the PsP version only has still images since its superior otherwise in all aspects.
my fav moment of the 1 year war is when i believe at the battle of solomon or the other fortress when one Zaku pushes another to atk and gets a grenade thrown at it
The ball is unironically the closest thing to what an actual space battle machine would look like.
Along with the Starfury from Babylon 5.
Like 30% of the reason the war ended as quickly was char taking out the leadership himself and constantly helping amaro(intentionally or otherwise.)
The Zabi leadership did a good job taking itself out, to be fair.
@@mattb154 So the Federation's greatest allies were... It's enemies.
...I mean, that sounds about right for Gundam.
It would be only 1 week difference max even if giren survived.
@@benlex5672 The outcome would have been the same with Gihren surviving, but if Kycilia hadn't got herself char'd that might actually have made a long-term difference. She was sufficiently politically savvy to potentially negotiate a less one-sided peace, resulting in a stronger Zeon successor state. With her death though nobody who could have pulled together enough support to meaningfully negotiate remained (except of course for Char, but he had other ideas).
At most 30%, even smaller. In the final days Zeon has run out of anything, if Kiren survived, he would face a coup back in side 3, as the Manga stated. He simply has nothing to negotiate with the Federation. Yes, Revil is dead but Federation still has a lot of capable generals, (those in 0083, and again, the anime makes them look stupid but actually their plan is good if not someone TKing with GP03). The series tend to make Federation look stupid and corrupt, but many decisions of the Federation actually are more reasonable and realistic than they look like.
There really needs to be a video about crucial lore: Minosky Particles.
Yeah, I mean the particles are so intrinsic to the series that having an in-depth breakdown of them is pretty much essential.
A quick Google search and I found a few videos talking about the techs in Gundam, which included the Minovsky Particles, and also wiki articles stuffs detailing it alongside other similar technology on the other spin-offs like N-Jammer and Ahab Particles.
Of course, none of it is by Kakarot though, so yeah. Agreed.
Wouldn’t that just be the same as attending science or math class
Feddie Engineer A: Our fighters don't have enough firepower and our bombers are too sluggish!
Feddie Engineer B: So what we need is an fighter-attacker that can cruise...
Feddie Engineer C: That reminds me of a certain famous jet from the middle ages that was said to be built around its weapon.
Fed Eng. A: Brrrrrrrrrrrt?
Fed Eng. B: BRRRRRRRRRRRT
The Warthog lives on!
I love this.
It would've made a big difference if the A-10 & its GAU-8 Avenger gatling gun were there in the One Year War, it could've shredded the Zaku into pieces, or @ least reduce turn it into Swiss cheese, but it would have a problem when it goes up against the MSM-03 Gogg mobile suit that almost reminds me of Juggernaut from X-Men.
Imagine if it was like SEED where beam carrying vehicles were a thing before the Gundam
@@nedinnis6752 The closest thing in SEED we got to the A-10 was the IWSP pack, which had a 30mm gun in its shield.
...DAMMIT, CAGALI, couldn't you have been just a LITTLE better as a pilot? I would've killed to have seen the IWSP in action in Destiny.
I still say the funniest thing the Federation tried fighting mobile suits with was the Vulcan Armored Car. In all actuality, it was a half track with an absolutely massive 60mm Vulcan cannon mounted on it. If you've never heard of it, it tried to fight the Gogg and lost horribly.
Yep, it looks like a Godzilla prop
I mean it's not a terrible idea really and it was probably extremely cost effective, to remove a mobile suit from a battle you don't actually need to destroy it you just need to destroy it's optics and a huge gattling can do that easily.
@@hedgehog3180 Problem is, its round is to small (being the same size as the head vulcans on the RX78), it showed incredibly poor gen elevation rendering it unable to hit optics, and it was fighting the Gogg, arguably one of the most heavily armored things Zeon built in the OYW that wasn't a mobile armor. While I don't doublte it could have taken on Zaku's, as Amuro was shown to have scored at least one kill purely with the vulcans, by the time it was seen in anime, it was VASTLY outdated.
Any dislikes on this video are just zeeks mad that they lost to those machines
They didnt though.. the Zeeks worked very hard to defeat the Zeeks and i find it distastefull that some tanks and fighter planes claim that honor for themselves :P
I like when mecha franchises can keep established military designs, like tanks and strike craft, relevant while still keeping the main focus on the mechs. Good combined arms isn't common enough in sci fi.
I mean despite the advantages of mobile suits being able to be bigger than standard military units while also being highly mobile, there are just things that only these standard military units can do that the mobile suits simply couldn't.
@@alfianfahmi5430 There's also the issue of cost. A fighter bomber and a tank might together still be several times as cheap as a mech, and history has taught us that more numbers can be the way to victory. Just look at WWII. The flashiest, highest spec gear means a lot less when you can't make it in meaningful numbers or enough units to support them.
@@bthsr7113 Yeah, imagine if Earth Federation developed Starfighters (jet fighters with beam guns) in UC 0079, that would be a big game changer 😂🤣😂🤣
@@bthsr7113 That is also what kinda sorta happened to Zeon. Their gelgoogs performed really badly because they had green cadets in them, and werent produced in big enough numbers to really change the outcome of the war
@@riptors9777 they lost 70% of their trained troops during the Battle of Loum, and later operation British, which didn't really help when they couldn't really replace any solider. Them deciding to land on Earth was probably the greatest game-changer. This was partly why most of the EFF high command was against the idea of operation V. They believed with enough casualties taken they could still win the war, which isn't false considering the Odessa campaign only had less than 50 MS deployed on the federation side including all of the prototypes (e.g. guntanks) but it would definitely be a lot harder for EFF to push on the space front
The scene from one of the Gihren's Greed games where a troop of tanks ambushes a Zaku II is always great.
The Gundam's critical role was in absolutely decimating the Zeon ace pilots as they threw most of their top pilots into a grinder trying to stop the White Devil. Obviously they had more aces but after the launch of Operation Star One the Zeke aces were getting killed faster than they could get replaced and higher performance suits like the Rick Dom and the Gelgoog performed poorly with green pilots and cadets
Not to mention the data from the Gundam gave MS pilots not only (and probably normal soldiers) a better idea on what they were facing, but also allowed their hardware and software to fine-tune the capabilities of their equipment.
Glad to see the support vehicles getting love
Gave it a like before the opening started. This is a topic in the franchise that deserves love.
Gotta respect the mad lads in the tanks and planes.
Death before dismount.
I'm so glad you said "driver". So many scifi channels use the term "pilot" when referring to ground vehicles.
MS Igloo was nice to dedicate an episode to the infantry using anti MS weapons and the Type 61
Yeah but it also showed that doing that and going up against Zakus was a suicide commando
MS IGLOO felt like it had too much of a hard on for mobile suits though. Like it shouldn't take an entire tank platoon to kill a Zaku, a single tank lying in ambush should easily be able to do that. That's sorta the whole point of Gundam, that Mobile Suits aren't magically better at everything than traditional weapons but are a new invention for a specific new theater of war, that theater being space. MS IGLOO in that way was just really disappointing to me in every way, it felt like the people behind it just unconditionally loved Zeon and mobile suits.
@@hedgehog3180 "MS IGLOO in that way was just really disappointing to me in every way, it felt like the people behind it just unconditionally loved Zeon and mobile suits."
This pretty much tbh, MS IGLOO had some ok bits in it but another Zeon robot fest? ZZZzzzzzzzzzz..
@@hedgehog3180 Saying "A single tank can kill a Zaku if it just walks up into optimal range and doesn't notice you lining up a shot on it" is like saying "A single infantryman can defeat a Zaku if it trips and gets itself stuck in a ditch, forcing the pilot to climb out so the single infantryman can shoot him". Zaku teams were highly mobile and the chances of conventional tanks executing a perfect ambush and achiving a critical hit on the very first shot is very low. In warfare, generally it is the side with the better mobility (especially in rough terrain!) who ambushes the less mobile side.
Line of sight is longer than people think, especially in the desert were hit and kills of targets a lot smaller than a zaku at 3 km or longer. Also, the zakus 90mm autocannon might as well as be a spitball against modern tanks
Still waiting for the GM development history. I wonder if he'll ever get around to making it?
It's really weird knowing that the type 61 tank fires larger rounds than most MS with its 150mm-155mm cannons, any yet is always portrayed as being ineffective when actually landing hits
@Stardust Alteisen
It's a 150-155mm Gun, if that thing follows BASIC MBT weaponry tech, it fires an APDSFS, which means that MS pilots have to react to at VERY MINIMUM, a dart flying at 1440m/s, which i doubt is that low for a 15cm gun firing a subcalibre dart.
And i doubt ANY UC pre MS advent MBT would somehow lack Anti-Armor munitions, including HEAT, HESH/HEDP (Plastic explosives warhead, once it hits a surface target, it molds (squashes) onto the surface then quickly detonates, anything behing the impact surface is showered in shrapnel and concusive shockwave, this also means it has decent HE properties which means a MS internals are likely to take severe damage), AP solid shot, APHE and APDS/APDSFS.
And if the Optical Coincidence rangefinder is AUTOMATED, it means it won't take an eternity to even range a target, and it's also visible that MOST Federation MBTs engage MS from preemptively mobilized positions, so any half decent crew is likely to have their FoV ranges noted within time permissions (at very least rangefind a structure down range to have some estimative)
@Scarface 1 The GM's 100mm rifle will do more damage in a burst but the shells don't have the same stopping power to a 150mm cannon. Especially if they are firing APFSDS. Consider that today, various militaries have already found that the 120mm L/54 was already reaching its limit in penetration power. To give you a image of the power of an 150mm gun, and SU-152 could straight rip off the turret of a Tiger I tank. Now imagine a 150mm cannon firing an APFSDS dart weighing in at 8 or 10kg going at speed of up to and above 1,500m/s and multiply that force by two. The point is that the Type 61 has IMPRESSIVE burst damage that would knock out most mobile suits realistic.
Debatable on the rate of fire, in msigloo 2 the m61a5 with its 155mm cannon could fire a round about every 3 seconds, if my math is right thats 20 rounds a minute and with two barrels that brings it up to 40 rpm
@@clpfox470 yep. And to add the force of each shell would make the M61A5/Type 61 an EXTREMELY nasty machine if used properly
@Scarface 1 We see the Type 61 achieve pretty crazy RPM in Igloo tho. With a 3 second reload on each guns which gives it crazy amounts of power. In 10 seconds that would be spitting out 6 rounds
As a Gihren's Ambition player, I'm always happy to see some appreciation for the vital non-MS, non-MA, non-Capital units. This is a great video with some good clips, such as the Type-61 barrage at 3:20.
I know Gundam's got an anti-war message in most of its series, but I also love the war-machine analysis you can pull off with the tech in game. This is [ Mobile Suit Gundam ], and the [ Mobile Suits ] are the stars of the series - but I still feel like there's more room to give other units in the military more screen time, and allow them to remain more of a threat.
The tanks vs. mech issue will always remain hotly debated. There's logical reasons and literary reasons for both sides of the argument, both as a general rule and within the Gundam Franchise itself. I'm not here to decide whether or not one or the other should win - I'm here to say that it "feels" better when both can actually put their best performance on, for lack of a better term.
From what I can google, the Type-61's maximum speed is supposedly faster than the Zaku-II Ground Typeby about 5 kmh - which is impressive, considering the tank carries a traditional reactor and the MS packs a compact nuclear reactor. Of course -neither- unit can fight at max speed as effectively, yet I imagine both the tanks and mecha implement stabilization and similar corrective mechanisms to keep on target while moving. We can do this with modern hardware.
But I can't think of any battles at even a cruising speed between ground vehicles and MS - not besides the desert rebels on humvees versus the BuCue's of SEED's Africa arc. I'm not deciding that one or the other should win, but I think it's more impactful for the narrative and presentation to see tanks as something other than -only- lumbering, plodding beasts. Seeing the winner triumph after an effort rather than effortlessly brushing aside the opposition feels, to me in particular, to be more exciting.
This wall of text - honestly me just gushing - has gone on far too long, but I think I've made my point without being confusing? Hopefully? Then again it being so long probably makes it more confusing...
i love the bucue. its such a fun unit its basically a giant dog tank or a zoid. seed really did balls to the wall with their designs.
I love the look on that Zaku's face when it looked around the corner and was like WTF, Where'd it go?! then turns and looks to its right to see a shit ton of 61s on the highway aiming at it and has that 'Ohh... Fuck...' Also, that Depp Rog made me think of a B-29 with that forward mutli windowed section...
It very much is a "Eh, maybe there is a tank out there, one tank isn't a threat" [turns around corner to find an entire company of tanks]
EFGF Captain: "Company... open fire"
@@VhenRaTheRaptor in that case its "Holy fuck! How did I not see them there when I came around the corner?!" *gets rekt* (And really how did the Zaku miss the telltale signatures the sensors should pick up at that close of range?!)
@@Feiora What signatures?
You know you can fight in a tank with the engine shut off... and if that thing's power system runs more electrical then modern tanks [with the power plant simply feeding electricity to everything], it could have enough battery capacity to simply sit there completely cold waiting for the Zaku to come around the corner.
@@VhenRaTheRaptor Hmm... I assumed they were freshly moved into that position because its a less than ideal position cover wise, which is what I dont understand actually cause if you watch the zaku carefully he looked right then left and then further left before standing out and only then glancing right once he was out of cover completely... A decent look to the right should have alerted him to the trap with all the barrels sticking out over the edge on the roadway...
@@Feiora I mean we can probably safely assume that the Type 61 probably is designed to try to hide it's thermal signature and in general be difficult to see. It's something that tank designers are already considering today so like a tank designed 100 years in the future probably has some systems for this. For example it could have something similar to submarines where it can run it's propulsion from a battery so it can charge the battery for a bit and then shut off the engine which would make it almost impossible to detect with IR and sound (on a battlefield that is).
Lest anyone accuse you of exaggerating, the Zaku Cannon was created with battling planes in-mind due to how thoroughly outgunned Zeon was in air superiority. Wonder if that's part of why we don't see the Gouf Flight Type so much, since while it's neat, it probably would have got turned into swiss cheese in most battles.
When 30mm guns can destroy your sensor units and even the unguided rockets can wipe you out, fighters are still kings in the air.
The Gouf was a very very expensive machine with a limited production run, then add an experimental flight system onto it, then add the strained logistics and lack of resources and the gouf flight type simply became a victim of circumstances
Not that it could actually fly, it could hover and jump/glide at most, everything else would quickly overload its flight system.
@@riptors9777 we did see that from Thunderbolt where the cult used Gouf flight type, which descended from the lying platforms while getting shot down by GMs and turrets. It's pretty funny in a way that they even considered using that to take air superiority.
Used the zaku cannon in battle operations 2 and despite some mobility problems compared to other support mobile suits, i cleaned house with it a lot, it’s definitely an older mobile suit I could count on in the game.
@@MusicFan752 Oh yeah the Zaku cannon is one of the better early support MS in that game without a doubt
Imagine never having air superiority before EFF was a security force and EFAF was pretty much none-existence, and then they mobilized. This is what made the OG gundam so great. No super weapon can save you. It is, at the end of the day, a war of attrition that ZEON lost within the first week. PS Depp rog and the manta are only developed after the mobilization of the EFF, about 1 month into the war during which most of Europe and America was lost.
Note that Odessa only had 32 Mobilesuits, of which only about 20 were GM ground types.
I think even without amuro and white base, federation would still win with their overwhelming resources (gm and other versions of gundam were already in development when amuro got the gundam), but instead of "one year war" now it's "one and a hald year war" or "two year war". Amuro, gundam and white base only accelerate the process.
The White Base mainly functioned as a magnet for every single issue Zeon had, their fascist glory hunting, their obsession with mobile suits because they invented them, their dictatorship which meant that the family of the dictator had to be treated as above everyone else and the murderers of those family members of course had to be treated as literal demons. And so on and so forth. It's like how the real life Nazis ended up abandoning all rational ideas for pursuing a war and probably accelerated their own defeat because of their Nazism.
They would have lost or atleast the war would have come to a standstill. The traitor and nuke at odessa would have cost the EF most of their earth bound forces (not to mention revil) and the attack on jaburo would have been a success. Not to mention that Zeon would have kept alot of their senior staff, garma and alot of experienced officers. And you need experienced officers.
Also Zeon was so preoccupied with Project V and the white base that they used up alot of their intelligence resources to follow the whitebase around, completly ignoring everything else. Wich then meant they where all suprised picachu face when the first EF built Mobile suits where encountered on the battlefield cause they had believed that Project V and the white base where necesary for the EF to build their own mobile suits.
@@hedgehog3180
This.
The pursuit of nationalist glory on the battlefield frequently results in bizarre strategic decisions, centered around creating and displaying expensive wonder weapons, campaigns of iconoclasm, and pushing narratives of being the elite of the elite.
Headhunting heroes at the expense of winning battles, undercomitting to vital operations, throttling their own industrial production, being easy to bait into disastrous strategic and tactical decisions in the pursuit of glory and posture, and more.
White Base was a masterful exploitation of these flaws.
Really hard to find kits of these because they are all so obscure. The Type 61 does have a few kits and the one that comes with the Zaku Ground War Set (best kit of it so far) is so damn rare you wont find any.
This is sadly so true. Thingiverse has the 3d print file so you can 3d print your own Type-61 tanks If you want a ton of them. But other than that the EX mechanics line has the jet core booster and gunperry. If you really want an obscure kit like the planes mentioned here it’s gonna be B-club resin kits off of GK-M model shop online. They are so expensive though. I bought a saber fish from them it was like 60 or 70 usd
M61A5 had a twin set 1/144 kit that comes with 2 hover trucks. I am not sure whether others had a kit or not but the set was for MS Igloo 2, which didn't really saw action for other crafts outside of the fork class and big tray.
@@benlex5672 yep I have a few of both ground war sets that those came in. GK M online has 1/144 resin kits for the saber fish. But it would be so nice if Bandai made 1/144 Medea, public, saber fish, big tray and other vehicles.
@@rogue_newtype4364 Bandai made a prototype 1/1700 big tray. Sad that it never made it considering they made multiple ships for the Yamato Franchise. I'd still buy it if it was a 1/2000 scale.
Of course, IIRC, Gundam (or white base) mostly fought iconic characters (Char, Ramba Ral, M'Queve, etc.), They rarely fought large fleet of Zeon
Zeon had 1/8th the resources of the EF. The introduction of mobile suits gave the POZ the push they needed to put the EF on its heels for a while. But once the EF learned how to counter the POZs mobile suits and introduced their own it was game over for Zeon.
1/30th according to Gihren lol (propaganda, I know)
1:28 I see what you did there.
After all, The Spitfire stood upon a mountain of Hurricane corpses to win skies above Britain.
I love, love, love that the super prototype is important for the story, but in the overall OYW it didn't single-handedly win the war by any means, and really didn't even turn the war around on its own.
It did however take out some key players and key machines like the newtype corps. If amura hadnt killed Lalah that could have cost the Federation dearly since Lalah could destroy entire fleets with her newtype machines.
Also it was VERY successfull in its role as a diversion for Zeon wich wasted massive amounts of resources chasing after the thing.
Also it prevented the death of Revil at Odessa by foiling the traitor AND taking down a nuke
So yeah not winning the war, but it had a big role in ending it
Type 61's are great, being in one against anything above a Zaku though, prey to god your at a functional firing angle.
GBO2 illistrates the feeling perfectly, your too slow, if an MS steps on you or hits you with melee have fun, and while you can hit the legs with your main cannons, a couple of 60mm rounds is all it really takes to blow you up
What stands out to me about the ol' Type 61 is the size of the guns, twin 150mm cannons! Reminds me of the Mammoth tanks from Command and Conquer.
Or the Ratte concept tank, but more reasonable.
I wish more gundam shows showed the support units as more than targets. Ibo mobile workers come to mind as in s1 they were the main force when they could not use ahab reactors
I am a big fan of grunt stuff tbqh. I do like the tanks and fighter jets. Hell when it comes to the suits I love the Gms and grunt suits. I actually kinda like the GM more than a Zaku because they just feel more like a grunt
Yeah, Maybe even more...not protagonist but spotlight like Stargazer or somehting.
Air supremacy was the deciding factor on the earth front. Zeon's Dopp, luggun and Gaw aircraft had poor aerodynamics. They were maneuverable but probably had poor energy retention and quickly overheated their engines constantly boosting in a dogfight. Being a fighter pilot on earth wasn't that bad unlike being a space fighter pilot. Countless fly manta and Saberfish pilots probably made ace status killing Dopps
IGLOO really showed how effective the Type 61 could be. One of the best MSG battle scenes ever!
I think some people need to rewatch the original series again and pay attention because throughout the series it is repeatedly stated that the White Base has little to no actual influence on the war and instead served mainly as propaganda and as a distraction for Zeon. The Earth Federation military was lead by competent commanders unlike Zeon and they quickly realized that Zeon was putting way too much effort into destroying this one ship compared to what it was doing, like during it's entire cruise in Asia they only destroyed a couple dozen mining bases out of hundreds, so they decided to play on it and they literally say this repeatedly in the series. The crew of the White Base as well repeatedly make this observation that they have a relatively small impact on the war while the Federation Army is the one actually pushing Zeon back. And this is then first illustrated at the Battle of Odessa where while millions of Federation soldiers push the Zeon forces back over hundreds of km while the White Base is mostly just sitting in the back and running interference, and the point is repeated at Solomon and A Baoa Qu where the White Base while one of the most advanced Federation ships and having some of the best pilots still is just one of many, Amuro shoots down about two dozen mobile suits and I think two Musais but that's out of thousands of mobile suits and several fleets of Musais.
Yet throughout much of this Zeon kept throwing away it's resources to try to destroy the White Base, which meant that the White Base of course could always just remain on the defensive and were often just given huge advantages by overeager Zeon commanders looking for personal glory. And they often did this at critical moments like Odessa, and in the lead up to A Baoa Qu, sending away some of their top of the line units to fight someone who even if they're killed will mean nothing to the war effort. In the very early stages destroying the White Base meant sabotaging the V Project but sometime after they had reached Luna 2 it seems like they got all the data they wanted from it and it really doesn't matter anymore.
The white base and the gundam HAD a major impact on the war in 2 key moments, though one is arguably more important then the other. The first and more important one was when they took down the EF traitor and the nuke at odessa. Both of these could have caused horrible damage to the EFs ground forces (early death of Revil) and could possibly have changed the outcome of the battle for jaburo with the loss of manpower.
The second one was taking out Dozle Zabi in the big Zam wich was about to completly wreck part of the EFs space fleet attacking Solomon. The loss of Dozle who was a genuinly beloved leader of Zeon was a heavy blow to Zeons morale, and alot of their officer staff allready saw the writing on the wall after his fall, especially those that had been loyal to Dozle above any other Zabi.
Other then that the white base was allmost solely responsible for taking out an entire Cadre of Zeons top aces and commanders. Rhamba Ral, Mcqueve, the black tri stars heck even Garma Zabi wouldnt have died if it hadnt been for his encounter with the white base. (Though char helped out with that)
Also the EF had "some" competent leadership, just like Zeon had. But the top brass was, just like Zeon, rotten to the core, inept and corrupt. What the EF had that Zeon didnt was logistics, manpower and more advanced technology. (MS held beam weaponry was a complete game changer on the battlefield since it completly negated armor protection of the day)
To find this video the same day I finished my first Gihren's Greed playthrough!
Welcome to the Gihren's Greed team!
Amusingly in GG there is a legit way to wipe off zeon from Earth with tanks, planes, and Guntanks.
A White Base has the accuracy and firepower to take out Zaku II F-s.
Where have you been in the past....20 years?
Kidding...Welcome to the Gihren's Greed gang! A classic of my childhood, my favorite toilet game ever (installed on the phone)
I can't get past more than a dozen turns before I get frustrated with the lack of translations. This game needs a modern remake more than any game i have ever seen!
@@kakarot197 please do a gameplay series of Gihren's greed
Like Revil said in Origin. It’s not only a fight that will decided the outcome of war but resources wise Zeon couldn’t win against Federation in any sense because lack of manpower and resources. In the later war Zeon practically strap with anything they could find and the newer mobiles suit were too diversified for it to give any advantage. Compare to federation production scale of whole earth.
Gotta love that YGO GX theme song
I wonder if out of all the people over the decades who have watched Gundam, if at least any one viewer came for the robots and then decided their favorite was a non mobile suit/armor
Recon units with the support logistics units who worked very hard to get information and support
Kakarot is basically going over the units you need to mass produce in the beginning of the EFF campaign in Gihren's Greed.
I'm disappointed that the core block system was never used for GMs, because then we can get more of the unsung hero of the original Gundam anime, the core fighter. Absolutely love that funky little dude
never understood why they didnt develop something like a ball eject system for the cheaper ms. kinda like the sazabi and the rick dias.
@@DarkAlex1978 if its not enclosed, how do they drink and eat?
@@marcosdheleno The ball eject system did become standard, in Unicorn every single suit even the grunts are shown to be equipped with it.
Me watching Sci Fi: This needs some mechas!
Me watching Gundam: This needs some non mechas!
It has always seemed to me that the only reason why the Federation forces felt the need for mobile suits of their own is that their tank crew and fighter/Ball pilots just can't resist the temptation of doing melee with mobile suits.
But then again, since mobile suits are the stars of the franchise, I have to let this one slide. I chose to watch the shows after all.
No, the Federation felt the need for mobile suits because their conventional forces were suffering horrendous casualties against Zeon mobile suits. In the early phase of Zeon's assault drop on earth, the effect of the Zakus was so demoralizing that Federation ground forces often routed without even putting up a fight.
I'm happy that the other units have been covered, but I disagree about the Gundam. It didn't win the whole war by itself or anything but I feel that if Chars attack on side 7 had succeeded in destroying the V Project completely and resulted in the death of the original cast, that would have been it for the Federation in the long run. The forces Char and Garma lost would still be around, Garma would be alive, Ramba Ral and his people would still be alive, the Black Tri Stars may be around at Odessa. Who knows if Amuro not being around to expose the traitorous general Elran may have resulted in a Federation lose at Odessa. Since Zeon followed the White Base to Jaburo, maybe the attack that ended up failing wouldn't have happened, or perhaps they would have discovered it anyway and launched a successful attack? If the war somehow turned around on Zeon anyway, all the ships and mobile suits that Amuro took out before the battle of Solomon would be present and who is going to handle the Big Zam? The New Type Corps is going to rampage around virtually unchallenged. It's hard to say what happens overall but the idea that the Gundam being not all that important is very wrong in my opinion.
Not to mention that the nuke it destroyed mid flight
If that landed Revel would have died and the Feddies routed
I disagree 100%. The white base was nearly inconsequential to the Earth Federation victory. This isn't like Luke blowing up the death start seconds before in incinerated the entire rebel high command. The RX78-2 was nothing more than a test unit for the core block system, which the federation basically decided not to even incorporate into its military. The Federation used White base as nothing more than a distraction decoy for Zeon forces following them all around their backfield. The Federation had ALREADY built 4 more fully functional Gundams, 2 more pegasus carriers, a fleet of warships and hundreds of GMs and Balls. By the time white base got to Jaburo the Federation was ready to launch the counter offensive. It was more of a hazard for Jaburo letting White Base reveal their location.
There was NO WAY the federation was going to lose at Odessa. They outnumbered Zeon 5 to 1 in troops, 3:1 in tanks, 9:1 in air power, and 2:1 in land battleships. And Amuro wasn't even the only Gundam at Jaburo as the Entire 08th MS Ground Gundam team was there along with the Gundam Pixie. Earth federation would have taken more casualties but the outcome was a certain federation win.
As to the point of Ramba Ral, he was only re-activated specifically to hunt the White Base. If they had not existed, he would have still been in retirement. And if Char destroyed side 7 he would have remained in space as a cruiser captain and found some other way to take his revenge on the Zabis.
Solomon was basically OVER when the Solar Flare system is fired. The number of ms and ships that Amuro took down is nothing compared to the super weapon. Yes the Big Zam rampaged all over the field, but all Dozle was doing was buying time for Zenna to evac. He also had no real bearing on the outcome.
I think you missed that one of the main themes of Gundam is that Individuals have no REAL effect on the outcome of armies. Even super heroes and aces on both sides can only fight to protect the people directly around them. Individual soldiers are meaningless to the meatgrinder of war.
another thing that would be a problem if the gundam was never made is the apsalus 3 would launch without any major problems and promptly destroy jaburo. Because the only thing that gave it problems were ground gundams and gms
Aces don’t matter that much during the war. Morale boosters they might be, but nothing unkillable on the ground when you have the AirPower. I do agree with you on the side of space though as WB pretty much wiped out most ZEON ace units that provides obstacles that cannot simply be overcome without the V project itself. The federation without the V project would be fighting these with Zaku-IIs at best. However other than that it would still be a minor obstacle due to the sheer size of the EFF and the solar ray systems
Lt. woody from jaburo was right saying one gundam would not win the war by itself. The feds have other v project prototypes on Earth for deployment . Amuro was right about the feds using the white base crew post side 7 incident as decoy test subjects.
Yeah, this is the starting plan when I play as the Feds in PS1 Gihren's Greed. If you mass produce them enough, they'll hold the ground just fine until you get your MS forces together.
If I play as Zeon, I produce a Magella tank, separate the two portions, and "repair" them both to make two full Magella tanks, and then repeat. That way, I don't have to wait for the building time or building slots to open up. Instant battalion.
I wish we knew more about the Flydart. That looks so cool!
I imagine it must be like a SR-71 Blackbird but with missiles.
There's 2 non-MS vehicles I like, one in the UC timeline & the other in an alternate universe. The 1st one is the Core Fighter bcoz it's modular & packs a punch w/ guns & missiles, & not bcoz it's an escape unit system 4 certain machines. The 2nd is the Skygrasper, while it fought on Earth in Gundam SEED, it reminds of a fictional space fighter from the game (& on the front cover of) Wing Commander Prophecy.
It’s awesome to see information of lesser known vehicles from the Gundam universe. Be cool if Bandai would come out with model kits of these lesser known vehicles
its better yet when they actually delivered more than people think. specially the ball and the 61.
as a side note, this video explains why there was such a rush for transformable machines in zeta.
There are at least some good kits of the Type 61, sadly fewer of the air units.
I also have a soft spot in my heart for the Land Battleships! One of the coolest and under utilized vehicles in ALL gundam.
I agree
Did the land battleships ever actually accomplish much, though? I may be misremembering but they seemed to be nothing but big fat targets for mobile suits.
Maybe the next list should be about the most competent UC commanders, cause you would have to be in order to coordinate the anti MS strategies used by the type 61 and other conventional weapons.
I still remember to this day where in the White Base campaign of Encounters In Space PS2 game the line "Public units, launching."
So, basically, after the failure of Operation British and the early Zeon blitz, the Federation had enough resources to wear Zeon down using their then current weapons technology. The propaganda win of getting General Revil back from Zeon custody and his empassioned speech about Zeon's limitations for long-term warfare also had a big impact, rallying non-military combatants and possibly driving recruitment of the Federation's most important resource: human soldiers. The destruction of Sides 1, 2, and 4 were likely a tactical decision to destroy as many Federation human resources as possible using minimal resources.
As a random aside, Fly Mantas are extremely useful in Gihren's Greed games before you get access to mobile suits, largely because they are cheap and work on air and ground targets.
Zeon's biggest mistake was arrogantly trying to invade and occupy the entire earth simultaneously. They basically threw away the massive advantage in strategic mobility that they had by committing everything to the assault at once and leaving little in reserve, allowing inferior Federation forces to grind them down through attrition.
The Type-61s really owe a big part of their success in Odessa to the Gundam. Amuro took out the Tri-Stars and eliminating Ramba Ral and Garma's Gaws while also disgracing Char definitely didn't do them any favors.
Also by original tv and origin manga canon , Amuro cut down an actual nuke launched at the feds.
I don't think that massively changed the outcome of the battle though. The tactics of the Tri-Stars would be terrible on such a huge battlefield like Odessa, I mean what are they gonna do jet stream attack an entire front line stretching hundreds of km with tanks and aircraft everywhere? That's a ticket to get shot down before you even fire off a shot, their tactics worked great in space and when fighting other mobile suits but they don't work when the air is so filled with shots that you can't dodge at all. Same with Ramba Ral, though less so because he is also a very capable commander, but at the end of the day good command can do very little against overwhelming odds. Garma is irrelevant because he's actually in North America (yes this makes no sense but that's the official canon) and also it seems like only part of his force was destroyed by the White Base since we see the Gaws in large numbers once again during the attack on Jaburo.
And even if none of this is true Zeon was at a much bigger disadvantage than any of these could make up, the Tri-stars are only 3 dudes, Ramba Ral commanded perhaps a few hundred and Grama had a few thousand perhaps (though it's hard to estimate), but Odessa was a battle of millions. They wouldn't have done nothing and obviously it would have helped Zeon if they hadn't pissed away all their resources on a grudge against some teenagers but I don't think it was critical in the Federation winning the battle, it's more a question of how bloody a victory it is. The bigger effect is probably the psychological one where M'Queve had to keep units at his rear in fear of the White Base, and the general disruption it caused to Zeon communications in Asia before the offiensive.
I have an off topic question for the question of the week. In gundam unicorn what's the name of that EFSF ship that crashed into the mountain that neo zeon forces had been using for a base and how did they and the ship get there.
The Type 61 for my favor. Put enough of them on the front lines and 3 squads of Zakus will get recked. But lest we forget the humble fighter copters. Many a time at California base would I or one of my squad get taken out by these pests. Shout out to Gundam Zeonic Front.
"Public carries anti-ship missiles" - So basically nukes? Because those are huge missiles, and ships are heavily armored.
Well not necessarily, it could just be a lot of explosives. Anti-ship missiles tend to be a lot bulkier than ATGMs or AAMs since they're hitting much larger targets that would need more punch to take out in one go.
Think of them more as the space version of China's DF-21D missiles, real life anti-ship missiles are absolutely huge.
I always liked the standard Moebius space fighter from Gundam SEED
@Stardust Alteisen depend on the game, in cross rays they did nukes dirty(seriously? nukes as physical dmg? wtf?)
Great video and love that non MS unit help end the war faster and were important to the federation. Great video
At least two or three of those machines appeared in Mobile Suit Gundam Crossfire on the PS3 and have on occasion screwed missions over by blowing up the supply base, delivering that last kill shot, destroying a limb, or actually shooting the gun out of your mobile suit’s hands. They’re a threat in Crossfire because of how fragile certain targets can be and the severity of taking damage in the game in general.
The M61A5 MBT wasn't called the King of the Land for nothing.
Was there ever an occasion of the federation using captured zakus in the early war period?
It would only make sense, kinda like the germans lagely used second hand british tanks in WWl before they could produce their own designs.
An outdated enemy suit is still better than none at all.
Also as shown by zeta the feds were definately interested in adopting and expanding on the zaku series so l could definately see them at least comsidering it.
Yeah they would paint them white (or white and blue) and mainly used them for training vehicles since the data they could gather for reverse engineering them was too valuable to put them on the field. Some of the Zaku spare parts would be used to create the RRf-06 Zanny (or SRf-06 Dahle) which was a step closer to the federation having their own mobile suits.
imagine being a feddie ground soldier, pinned down by a zaku, accepting your last rites, before hearing the whirring of aircraft engines and instantly knowing that you're gonna be alright
What series is the 3:30 scene from? I've tried searching for it on google and youtube but the only Type 61 vs Zaku II scenes I can find are from MS IGLOO 2.
I’ve asked this same question with no response in return…
@@tylermartin8031 Good news, I found it. th-cam.com/video/SlY-PFBMp9A/w-d-xo.html#t=216
This is from Gihren's Greed game cutscenes.
The Core Booster is my favorite machine. And based on The 08th MS team they made A LOT of them. (note, it is the core booster fighter and not the Core Block With Booster) They are actually more powerful in the air than any mobile suit until maybe the time of Zeta gundam.
There's 2 ways to get a Type 61 model.
A pair of 1/144 models come with the Ground War Set Zaku 2 and there's a larger kit, along the same scale as typical tank models at 1/35 scale, in the --EX-Model-- line.
EDIT: It's the *Hard Graph* line, not EX-Model.
My favorite was the updated 61 from Igloo. That scene was amazing. One of the best.
I like when the type-61s ambushed the Zaku, it wasn’t like one or two, it was a whole bunch of tanks, sitting on the highway waiting for it’s prey
I have a question, why didn't the Federation make upscale tanks. I mean, why not make larger tanks with heavier cannons or at least heavy missile platforms that could support the mobile suites in the background at least.
I mean the realistic awnser would be because large tanks are a horror for logistics. Though the same would be true for mobile siuts.
I love how the type 61 is just a cold war era tank design with an extra barrel, and the Deep Rog is just a ww2 era bomber cockpit with space capsule duct taped onto it.
Igloo showed a good amount of anti-MS fighting for sure.
Truly, though, at least in head canon, I would think the Federation Navy served the greatest resistance to the Zeon in the early parts of the war. Until they finally had Amphibious mobile suits and subs and ships of their own, the Zeon lacked weapons for +60% of the Earth's surface. With surface to surface missiles and the airborne power you mentioned deployed from carriers to meet the Zeon from a distance, it's understandable why the war came to a ceasefire half way through the year.
Infestus, heli, VTOL attack fighter, linear gun tank, linear artillery, Guul, Compact armored vehicle are my favorite cosmic era vehicles that get even less appreciated
@Stardust Alteisen that’s because of MS plot armor and NJ effects on long range warfare.
That linear gun is suppose to fire like a coil gun or Gauss gun, making that sabot round go shatter a BuCue legs at range. But plot armor protects MS from reality.
Sounds about right. Historically, new technology generally doesn't play a major deciding factor in the war it is introduced. For example, the American civil war saw some of the first practical repeating rifles, but both sides still predominantly used muskets. Tanks and aircraft were present in WWI, but they were more of a curiosity, as tank and fighter doctrine hadn't been established. While there have been true game changers like Radar, aircraft carriers, and WMDs, these tend to be rare. I imagine that Mobile suits were so terrifying to the Earth Federation early in the war because it was a new weapon, not necessarily a better one. It simply had no experience in fighting them with conventional forces, and thus had no doctrine in regards of how to counter them.
Hope a developement on federation fighter jets comes at some point since brought them up.
3:36 It took 7 Type 61's to take down a single Zaku? Isn't that like the WW2 myth it takes four Sherman's to take out a Tiger?
@Stardust Alteisen SfS?
Yeah it kinda is, though on the other hand it might also kinda the same situation that lead to that myth. The reason why that myth exists is because US tanks always operated in platoons of 4 tanks so there'd never be a situation where less than 4 Shermans were fighting together, unless one had been knocked out earlier in that same battle. Perhaps a similar thing is happening here and Type 61's always operate in platoons of 4 and there's two platoons working together here with one loss or there's 8 in a platoon with one loss or there's just 7 in a platoon. So when this group is setting up an ambush they would of course set it up so they can all see their target.
But also I have to be honest, it was made like that because whoever directed it had no concept of how real warfare worked and thought that a tank is obviously not capable of killing a cool mobile suit all on it's own.
@@hedgehog3180 Another interesting scenario in MS IGLOO 2: Gravity of the Battlefront episode two when two platoons (technically 9 tanks as false information leaked to the enemy lead them to believe 8 until the battles end when the ninth destroyed the final enemy Zaku that let their guard down at the battles conclusion.)
fought against 3 Zaku's including the Ace Elmer "The White Ogre" Snell, the 61's had an advantage as they were fighting in a former battlefield where destroyed tanks and vehicles were still giving off residual heat and nullified the Zaku's Thermal optics from seeing the enemy and got ambushed, they used smoke and cat and mouse tactics and ended up destroying two of the three Zakus but by the end lost all eight Type 61's, The Ogre claiming victory is shot by his rival Harmen Yandell that hid until the battle was thought over. His 61 using APFSDS rounds to pen his backpack and take him out.
Not sure if you could call it a Pyrrhic federation victory or not as even after all Zaku's are destroyed the final tank is destroyed by an Anti Tank patrol with the driver being the sole survivor, but the Feds did destroy three Zaku's along with an ace and in all that those three Zaku's were lead away from their main force to fight as they knew their main force was walking into a trap with no enemies.
Anti-zaku tank is something I would use
The Flydart has a really sweet design. I'd dig a model kit of one or more to go with my other Gunpla.
I was hopping you bring up the AF-01 Mongoose, which is a ground attack aircraft with a 75mm anti-tank gun.
That one unfortunately didn't fit with the video because it didn't do enough. It's an interesting design though.
@@kakarot197 thanks for the reply, I would also be interested if you do one for the Zeon side as well.
An awesome video none the less.
@@kakarot197
It's basically a ripped off DUCK from Nazi Germany, a Twin engine attack aircraft that either carried 20mm cannons, long barrel 30mm or a 37mm Autocannon gunpod, up to an adapted PaK 75mm gun, yes, germans used a heavy, underpowered plane to do the job the Warthog did for the US in Cold war (the engines were BARELLY able to keep it flight capable with the 75mm gun, that and the fact the pilot had 90mm thick bulletproof glass on all the cockpit windows and up to 12mm thick armored plates for the cockpit).
@@andrehashimoto8056 The US also did it with the PBJ, and so did both Japan and Italy actually. So I think it's a bit unfair to say they ripped off the Duck when it's an idea many people tried out.
I’ sorry,but while you were talking about the Type 61 I just flashed back to the first mission of Zeonic Front where the tank driver was all “ohhhhhh crap it’s a Zaku!” 😅
Oddly enough I like hearing about the non-mecha vehicles in mecha settings wars are rarely won by one machine alone and seeing how vehicles adapt to new war machines is interesting.
Can you do a video like this for Alternate universe machines
Gorby 2
GN Arms when not equipped
Gundam Wing transport ships
Fuunsaiki, the best support mecha
dont forget the most fun of all, the fuunsaki(it even has fun in the name!)
@@marcosdheleno I'M RIGHT HERE, FUUNSAIKI!!
BECOME MY LEGS AS WE FIGHT TOGETHER!!!!
Playing as some of these in GBO2 made me want to get their kits.
yet here's the thing is other media like the early gundam vs games like federation vs Zeon the type 61 just did nothing it just moved around and that was all it did in the game but games like zeonic front did put the fear of the type 61 as a threat in that game
Finally, I'm glad somebody shows that gundam was it always the main savior. Great video as always.😉👍
the best part of this video is how it basically explains why there was such a mad dash for a transformable machine on zeta. i still think its borderline useless for hybrids(space-earth) machines. and things like a dedicated hit and run machine like the deep striker makes far more sense(if ALOT cheaper).
the only space machine that makes sense to have a transformation is the messala as it was basically developed to escape jupter's pull. so having a mode that made it easier makes far more sense there.
We're there more federation zaku's other than the one from Ms.Igloo?
Ooohhh the core booster. I hope that we get a video on its variants and maybe including the g-fighter
In some Gihren's Greed cutscenes about project V, a captured Zaku II is used for testing and I remember another cutscene where one was being airlifted.
Yes there where, the Federation was desperate to capture enemy mobile suits. There was even a conversion Zaku called a Zanny that was a Zakus body with federation build parts like a new head etc. It had horrible performance but allowed the Feds to learn alot about construction of mobile suits
There are quite a lot. almost half of Federation's MS participating in the Odessa Campaign were captured/fixed-mobile suit, and after GM went into full production ZakuII became the trainer craft for new pilots well into 0081. Part of the reason why high command was against operation V was also because they were able to capture MS on their own.
I can FEEL how much you loved the music choice you made for that sponsored segment.
I've always loved the FFB-7Bst; it just always struck me as a practical evolution of the original Core Booster, when mass-produced without the need for mobile suit compatibility.
ever since I saw your vid calling for a line of gundam vehicles/ships I can't stop thinking about it !!
Would love a new model kit line for non ms/ma. I think they would sell well for Gundam fans and those that are fans of tanks and planes. Easy money in my opinion
You glorious bastard . You put the Y.G.H GX music over it !
Ahhh I remember that tank is snipe the zaku. So Damn cool.
"120 ton of freedom" is the best phrase of this vid
In the case of the battle of Solomon the PUBLICS assualt boats would have had to make a death star run on the bigzam mobile armor prototype with it 5 mega particle cannons
If it wasn't for amaro Ray spotting it as it launched
The Big Zam has 22 small beam guns and one gigantic cannon in the front.
Sorry I was gessing
The point is that the beam diffusing missles would be overloaded by the big zam main weapon the mega particle cannon. Plus, the fast and agile mobile armor would cut the distance before the publics would be able fire off thier missles
The Saberfish was to space combat what the Fly Manta was in Earth's atmosphere. So it really does deserve an honorable mention at least.
I wonder if there was a composite wing of Saberfish and Balls working as a unit before GM is a thing. We know 3 GMs and 2 Balls work as a fire team but imagine a 3 Saberfish and 2 Balls?
Nah.. not really.. the saberfish was the Type 61 of space: completly outdated and outgunned by basic Zaku 2s. The fly manta on the other hand had no equivalent on Zeons side, the Dopps where a bad joke. So it was pretty much unchallanged
thank you, i keep telling people that the gundam in the oyw was important, but not really the thing that won the war.
Honestly, this is overselling their roll a bit- they were critical for stalling out and preventing the Federation from being completely overrun but they didn't 'win" the war, it was the GM that did that. The GM is the underappreciated hero of the OYW as upon rollout it was already a significant step up compared to the Zaku II: more durable armor, capable of using beam weapons, and almost twice the acceleration
This video bring back my memory of HOI 4 One year war mod playing as the federation and the only thing that help me hold the line is the gigantic tank army with a bunch of meh to terrible commander (I am looking at you Jamitov) and dozen of 10 stack forts that I built to hold the line until the colony drop debuff go away.
The gundam indeed played part in many key battles but for the most part the gundam and White base was pretty much the ultimate decoy that the zeon waisted much resources on.
That's why always wished 08th ms team was 50 episodes. We probably would have seen more of the tank and air forces of both sides. That's my main desire to see a 50 episode gundam series of the oyw that shows just normal soldiers of both sides. I know Ms igloo and 08th Ms team are the closest that will ever happen though.
Have you read Iron Mustang? You follow a Zeon scout platoon on Earth which is nice, you can see the Weasels and the lesser known Magella Eins.
2:36 - Ah yes, the Type 61 MBT... The bastard love child of the real-life M1 Abrams and the Apocalypse tank from the Red Alert game series... I wish it was a premium vehicle in World of Tanks or in War Thunder...
Tbf it predates basically every other fictional two barrel tank design.