For clarification: The Titans' warcrimes and attitude towards spacenoids didn't get their own point to avoid repetition as they are brought up throughout the video. ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ Get yourself an amazing shave and help support the channel: www.patronblades.com/k197 Get some sweet Gunpla deals in Europe!: facebook.com/gunplalabbenelux/
Glad Sentinel Gundam finished off the few Titans members left by the end of the first neo zeon war who were just scum... Oh yeah could you do a video on why the first neo zeon group lost?
I have to say this was well done man. I honestly came to alot of the same conclusions. Let me know if you ever do OZ some SEED factions Id be glad to have a disscussion about them anytime :)!!
it would be great if you cover as well the titans in the advance zeta, I'm confused in the logo of the titans here and the titans logo in the hazels are different
@@gravefox4206 I... Have had trouble watching seed due to a few reasons. Maybe i can convince myself? What do you like about it and why would you say i should watch it?
Im not the biggest fan of SEED the first was good but ic alot of the reasons SEED Destiny wasnt as well received Id say watch them and then see how you feel I mostly watch gundam for the Mecha in the end. if anything i liked that unlike Feds vs Zeon. there was a real genetic dived between the allaince and ZAFT with naturals and Coordinators it reminded me of EXO-Squad with humans vs Neosapians
The titans literally had one job: stop Zeon from resurfacing. They then started gassing colonies, using upgraded Zakus, built a giant laser and worked with Axis. With such a colossal lack of self awareness, it was only a matter of time before they went under.
Both are based on fascist regimes, with Zeon having the huge issues of nepotism and the Zabi family being the way they were, and the Titans being extremely forthright with "might makes right" attitudes and mindsets. EVERYONE was vying for power in the Titans, with Zeon really being prone to internal divisions between branches.
@@sleepysloth9765 Interesting side of things I never considered. They both just made so many MS, is that what impacted them fiscally, or was there much more to it than that?
Kamille was born in Britain to French parents. He's named after Camille Saint-Saëns, a french composer and a MAN (Tomino likes naming characters after French musicians). So yeah, he actually does have a man's name. He's French, they roll like that.
When i first saw amuro back in the fight. I was like " its all over for the titans " there doomed gone game over man i was laughing my butt off. He took the rig dias & show kamille the ways of the white devil
A couple other important points: 1) Anaheim Electronics acting independently of both the federation and the titans was a biggest factor in the war. One way of looking at the entire conflict was that it was less a military conflict than a business/political conflict between Anaheim and Jamitov with everyone else being their pawns. 2) The biggest mistake of the war was the Titans attempting to go directly after Anaheim and their cities on the moon. Anaheim responded by trading side 3 to Neo Zeon in exchange for an alliance with their AEUG forces The alliance between the AEUG & Neo Zeon led to the military defeat of the Titans the loss of the Colony laser. 3) What was left of the Titans after what I would consider their initial military defeat was destroyed by Scirocco who was an utterly terrible and incompetent leader. Scirocco had killed the military leadership of the Titans and not replaced it with anything. Rather than directing the operations of the fleet, he was flying around the battlefield as a pilot. For lack of direction, somehow nearly the entire Titans fleet positioned itself in front of the colony laser and was destroyed.
Its why I've always thought to myself that the ultimate villains, at least thru 0083 to ZZ were Anahiem Electronics. After the One Year War they absorbed their competitors and had a monopoly on MS production until Axis showed up. Ideologies and war crimes aside, who got to walk away from each conflict with a pretty penny every time?
Jim Tuner Jim Tuner I don’t think Anaheim’s actions were that much of a factor at the beginning. The company was massive in size and scope and pretty much operated like a Zaibatzu with multiple departments acting independently from one another or with very little oversight from the general management, the best case I can think of was the RMS-108 Marasai, originally that MS was intended for the AEUG and yet Anaheim gave it to the Titans, even the Titan officer overseeing the transfer commented on the company’s actions of arming both sides to which the company representative merely replied they were keeping all their options open. The titans attack on the lunar cities change all of that and put Anaheim against them but that was much late in the war and by that point after the Dakar fiasco the Titans were well on the way to defeat.
The interesting thing is that the Titans developed the Mark II Gundam on their own, the AEUG steals them and then Anaheim steps in to give them the Marasai almost in compensation. If you are cynical enough, you could almost see Anaheim getting the AEUG to effectively wreck the Titan's plans to build their own mobile suits to destroy a potential business competitor, I agree that Anaheim was a Zaibatzu and that different groups inside the company had different motives for what they were doing. But they seemed at least to me to be in total control of the AEUG from at the least the beginning of the Zeta series. Even in 0083, Anaheim (at least the groups on the moon) were less than loyal to the federation and seemed to be quietly helping the Zeon reminent forces.
How much influence the company had over the AEUG is a matter of debate, there are examples of the company forcing the AEUG's hand like when Wong Lee forced the issue of the Jaburo operation against the advice of most of the group's military leadership. But there are also examples of the company acting on its own without consulting with the AEUG like when they made the deal with Hamman Khan that led to the destruction of the Gate of Zedan. Throughout most of the Gryps War Anaheim was effectively playing a win-win strategy. If the AEUG won then Anaheim could claim they helped them against the Titans tyranny if on the other hand the Titans won then Anaheim could point out their support against the rebel forces. In the end because of its decentralized structure and little oversight Anaheim could easily make a case to the victor that the company's upper management was unaware of what their department chiefs were doing with their assets. Anaheim getting the MK-II was a mere convenience like what happened after the OYW when the company absorbed the Zeon MS development firms Zeonic, MIP and Zimbad which is why many of their MS like the Rick Dias, the Hizack and the Marassai had distinct Zeon features like the mono eye. Its also important to remember that when Unicorn Gundam came it revealed a very important piece of the Anaheim puzzle. For all intents and purposes Anaheim was an extension of the Vist Foundation whose founder Syam Vist got extremely powerful and wealthy thanks to his possession of the Laplace Box. From then on if you look at the company's history you have to admit they were the ones who always benefited the most from every conflict and interestingly always played all sides. In char's counterattack the Mobile Suits that Neo Zeon used were built by Anaheim's Granada factory despite the fact that they were clearly intended to be used against the Federation.
@@georgeleon1263 everything you just explained sounds similar to Umbrella from resident evil (minus the win win part) Umbrella had the intention of bio warfare where as Anaheim had its bases covered so long as they could profit from both sides with very little blow backs on there end, which is extremely 1 sided like damn.
"How could the Titans lose? They had such cool uniforms and they lost to a bunch of guys with bright orange-yellow pilot su..." (Sees the Galactic Empire lose to the Rebellion) "...oh."
The Empire lost to the Rebellion because of Darth Vader. If Palpatine survived, he would have easily recouped his losses and launched another attack on the Rebel Alliance. But since Vader killed him, it turned the whole Empire into a galactic version of Somalia-dominated by local warlords with nobody for them to answer to. The Empire fell into military anarchy as a succession war broke out between Palpatine's goons as to who succeeds the old man, while the Rebellion transformed into the New Republic and slowly gobbled up territory as they made a push for the core.
If Vader didn't duel Luke, and instead piloted his TIE Advanced to stop the Millenium Falcon from entering the Death Star 2, would things have gone differently?
@@HolyknightVader999 thanks to Disney because that story will ruined soon 😂😂😂 How the hell Palpatine survived Death star 2 explosion anyway and appears in next star wars....?! 🤔 Dammit Disney
The important reason: Mission Creep. The Titans purpose was to act as a security and police force for the Colonies against Zeon Remnants and Axis Zeon. They were an elite force given the importance of that mission. However this necessarily meant that there weren't very many of them (combined with the woeful state of Federation Mobile Suit and general arms production, procurement, and modernization in peace time). So any expansion of the role of the Titans must necessarily come at the expense of its main job: Paramilitary Policing. When the war went hot with the AEUG, this exposed the problems with Jamitov Haimen's plot to take over the Federation. The Titans were building massive battleships (like the Alexandria) at the expense of other craft necessary for patrols and fleet engagements. They were putting funds into both Newtype Research generally and Artificial Newtype Creation, which were beyond their remit and could end up creating a powerful super human capable of bending others with the force of his charisma and mind (which is what happened with Sirrocco). And they had committed to building or purchasing high performance machines at the expense of their main suits (likely prior to the war when it made sense), however when the Titans expanded with the mission of fighting the war, this meant that there fewer to go around in a larger force.
Titans logic: We are hunting down Zeon Remnants so let’s upgrade the existing Zakus made by the Zeons and use it against them! That way we can cut cost and build a expensive MA that is big and is a Gundam! Oh and don’t forget to call Paptimis Scirrocco for help, I mean what is he gonna do? Back stab our leader and make off with the women? *Laughs in Harman Karn and angry Kamille*
Add in that the rebel alliance was led by Darth Vader (Char) when it captured the death star. I always wanted to make a "Zeta Gundam" style replacement story for "Empire Strikes Back". There is a new republic just as bad as the empire. Darth Vader is now the hero leader of the new rebels. Luke Skywalker is under house arrest. Han Solo is a civilian transport pilot (i.e. Bright Noah) And Leia is a conflicted member of the bad government. The more I think about it. The more I think that the new star wars films should just adopted the plot of Zeta Gundam.
@@Jim-Tuner That sounds amazing tbh. Just remove or modify the *really* clunkiest parts of Zeta (very few of them are) and it's good to go. Though let's be honest here. Modern Disney is "play it ultra safe", so they'd never go for a story this morally grey. "Zeta's not that morally grey, though." I know. THAT'S THE ISSUE.
@@aptspire read the legacy of the force books it's a part of the old EU Star wars before Disney. It's great after years of fighting imperial remnants and threats from the outer edges of the galaxy the new republic under the tryannical rule of a new sith Lord Darth Cadis who no one knows is a sith forms a elite paramilitary group known as the galactica alliance security or GAR for short and uses them for nefarious means. It's really good I'm leaving a lot out so I don't spoil everything but if you like star wars and zeta you'll probably like this
@@drakeevans8042 Hell, the Galactic Alliance (the New Republic's successor state) even elects an imperial warlord as the head of state. And her personal animosity with the Jedi drove them away and turned them into a rogue force sect, and now there was no external check on corruption with the state. I really need to find those books somewhere.
#5 reliance on Cyber Newtypes. In addition to all the prototypes the Titans made, they also relied heavily on the very little of Cyber Newtypes they made. And those they relied on were super mentally unstable. Pretty bad combo of prototype human weapons and prototype weapons.
They did seem to break down all the time. Four was super cool at first. But rosemary was all over the place with her chicken little the sky is falling then big bother.
Every single cyber newtype was unstable. Rosamia, Four, Puru, etc. all of em were batshit crazy. You can’t go “creating” Newtypes. It’s why every single one of them eventually got owned when they fought against real Newtypes like Kamille Char and Judau
Not to mention said Cyber Newtypes were basically rookie pilots in of themselves, at or barely above the rank of Ensign. It's blatantly obvious they wanted their own Amuro Ray. After all, Amuro was a teenager who had no training whatsoever when he first stumbled into the cockpit of the Gundam, so surely a slightly more prepared soldier with an even more powerful machine could produce better results, right?
In all seriousness though, this is more timely in this day and age. How many governments in the real world are currently acting on "protecting their people from terrorist threats" as an excuse to expand their power and influence on teir own citizens?
Let me put it in a way you can understand: technology changes rights. No more, no less. The more technology comes into the picture, the more rights and freedoms change. The only 'basic right' is, quite literally, not getting murdered. Everything else is determined by technology. Why do you think slavery and serfdom lasted in one way or another for over 4,000 years? Because the technological context requires you to force a rather significant (something between three quarters to all the way to the mid-90s) portion of your population to produce food and since food production is generally thankless and backbreaking work and the most money is made in the urban areas, you have to tie people down to the land. That is why the most capable civilizations rose in fertile areas almost exclusively (fertility is, in effect, a technological advantage) and not everywhere else. The various Greek civilizations being one of the very few exceptions. In our evolving technological context. OH BOY, are we going to have a nice, nasty ride. Welcome to a world where idiots with more ideology than sense are going to start using gene-tech for their own purposes and people start using memetic weapons like jet fuel. Privacy, in this sort of situation, is no longer possible nor viable. Unlimited information is now a detriment to not only policy but people's lives. What we've assumed to be static is actually fluid. Even I had to come to this realization, and that was a while back.
Reason #6: They should have focused on better ties between them and the Spacenoids, see them as citizens of the Feddies and treated them like one. If they had done that, Karaba and AEUG would not have those skilled and professional pilots like Emma becoming disillusioned and defecting to Kamille and Quattro. Reason #7: they should had treated Bright Noa better not make him a glorified limo driver since everyone overlooked his achievements with Amuro and the White Base crew. And we know the BRIGHT SLAP, a slap so powerful it makes any whining kid into a capable adult or make any cocky and hardheaded crew or pilot,realiable.
5: Experamental use of creating Newtypes that ended in failiure, sometimes killed by the may protagonus or other Titants members hands others going awol from the constant expermentation on their mind. Four Marasume and Rosamia Bardon are the clear cases for this. Four disobedeince and anguish when piloting the Psyco Gundam and Rosamia compleate mental breakdown from her concern of "They Sky is falling" To an episodic relapss and mentality of a child. Granted, later on the Neo Zeon forces does use Cyber-Newtypes and cloning them as well, but the pure fact remains that the Titans was the first recorded orginization that did this, with the Federation's stamp of approval.
@shadowshinobi06 Yep , Glemmy was much more sucsessful in that regard. One of them even survived , atleast up until the end of Unicorn... Also in Gundam Evolve , in one of the episodes about Judau , he met a pilot that wears the same suit Puru Two wore and piloted Qubeley.
You forgot one thing,the Titans had Gates Capa which was completley stable but less powerfull than Rosammia. They should have produced more Gates and not trying to push firther as they were trying to do with Four. Its jeter to have 4 average Cuver Newtyle with complete mental stability than 1 with insane powers but unstable as fuck
Another reason I would add to the defeat of the Titans is because they choose the Hizack as a mass production MS instead of mass producing the Pale Rider without H.A.D.E.S.
What convinced me Kakarot197 was a true Gundam fan? Was it his deep knowledge of the lore? His understanding and assessment of the many anti-war themes and motifs of the franchise? His endless encyclopedic knowledge of MS? NO... it's when he properly uses "... however" in the must Gundam way possible lol
It's karma to watch the asshole die in 0083 he was commanding the second solar system and still missed a colony and was making deals with the Zeon he was ment to be fighting.
I don’t think the technological aspect play that much of a factor. While the Nemo was a significant upgrade over the GM II it wasn’t that much superior to the Titans own machines, even the Hizack was still able to hold its own against it. The vast majority of Titan losses were at the hands of the AEUG aces Kamille, Emma, Char and company. The two factors I think really doomed the Titans were points 3 and 4, their actions through the conflict and extreamly poor leadership.
How about not keeping their Cyber Newtypes under control, not treating them like actual human beings, and not dealing with the psychological problems that came with becoming a CN?
Joining the space Nazis isn't necessarily the best place to go to be treated like a human being lol. Just like joining them because you wanted to be treated like a woman is retarded.
In the big picture the cyber newtypes played a very small role to be honest. Even without the cyber newtype project they would have lost the war. Same with Zeon in the OYW... once a tipping point was reached there was no going back... even if they hadnt lost at on earth, as soon as axis showed up they had lost the war. Their poor treatment of cyber newtypes just underscored that they are "da evil guys" and to make the heros look that much more heroic and tragic in turn.
There is also the fact that there was little knowlege availabe about Newtypes in the first place. Along with the fact they where desperate to the point where they would put people through hell to find normal Newtypes. See "The Guntank Insident" and "Fishing for Newtypes" videos that Kararot197 has on his channel to see what I mean.
1: incompetence 2:being evil because, evil. 3:corruption beyond belief, no wonder they use the federation used Brazil's flag... 4:stupidity to the point of being cartoony. 5:a system with Anthem's levels of broken. seriously, its a miracle they even survived long enough to stay in power for more than a week!
It was a slightly different problem. The Titans problem was that the main supplier of mobile suits and mobile suit technology for the federation was the covert sponsor of the AEUG. The AEUG was getting the good stuff and the Titans were getting whatever was left over.
Actually No. Many of the prototypes and such fielded by the Titans/Federation were NOT developed by Anaheim. Instead. They were independently developed by different bases on Earth, or Titan's handful of Space Bases like Gryps or Luna II. Heck. Even the Barzam wasn't really developed by Anaheim. Of the Federation/Titan mobile suits, only the Hi-Zack and the Marasai was developed by Anaheim. Everything was developed in-house by the Federation and the Titans.
Kind of, but the difference was that the Titans were an elite organization, so they had an excuse for relying on high performance prototypes. Plus, the Federation has literally all the money in the world. The Titans could've created whatever the hell they wanted.
New subscriber. Never really grew up with the gundam franchise but your analysis and narration with the huge lore of the franchise in a concise manner have been an absolute joy to watch. I look forward to watching all of your backlog
Another reasons they lost 5: Kamile, they murdered his mother 6: They abused their power and did inhumane tactics like taking the enemies family and friends hostages and killing their love ones 7: Trusting scirocco The titans began in dec 0083 and ended in feb 0088. Four years and two months.
why wouldnt they trust scirocco? the guy made a piece of crap that made the ball look like a high end machine... and almost won with it! if anything imagine if he piloted something that actually worked like a gm 2, or a hizack!
Another reason is despite the Titans getting some powerful newtypes like Sirroucco, Emma Sheen, and Mour Pharoh they preffered to rely on the cyber newtypes to field their most major offensives. This was just not a good idea, and its likely because the Titans with their Earthnoid supremicy had a strict you had to be born on Earth policy to join, this meant the amount of actual newtype's they had would indeed be small. Yet certain exceptions were maid such as Sirrouco and his Jupiter fleet but we all know how that ended. While many ace pilots of the One Year War and Stardust were joining the AEUG, along with many capable newtypes such as Kamille, Asuna Elmarit, Emma Sheen, Quattro Bajeena, Amuro Ray, Judau Astha and so forth joined the AEUG too. say what you will about the newtype theory but a massive amount of newtypes in one group over a few cyber newtypes and even fewer true newtypes in a mostly old type force meant that the difference in skill and experience was with the AEUG as many titans had little wartime experience.
Two more points that the Titans lost the war are #1 Relying on the unstable cyber newtypes instead of real newtypes. #2 Fight the war on multiple fronts. The Titans were fighting AEUG in space, Karaba on Earth, looking for Zeon from the One Year War, keeping the colonies underfoot, and having to deal the arrival of Zeon from Axis. If they stuck to one or two of those at a time while letting the regular forces or some other special faction, then they wouldn't be spread so thin to keep losing most of the time.
Yea in hindsight the Titans are like the Teutonic order, in paper they claim to protect you from threat but in reality they’re the threat, using whatever means necessary to increase their power, plus their higher ups are mostly consisted of people who’s in it for themselves and not for the people
And in the end, the Teutonic Order was taken down by an alliance of people who used to be their allies, like the Catholic Poles and Lithuanians. In this case, the Titans were obliterated by disgruntled Feddie pilots joining the AEUG and Axis Zeon.
The sad thing is that you could say the same thing about the AEUG. They were basically puppets of Anaheim Electronics and were to a degree just as false as defenders of the colonies as the Titans were in terms of being defenders of the federation. Its somewhat implied that by the time of Char's Counterattack that the AEUG (with Bright and Amuro) had evolved into a new less murderous version of the Titans keeping the spacenoids under control for the federation.
The Federation tried their hands at being space Nazis and they fucked it up. While the original space Nazis are still going at it fifty years later. Just goes to show how incompetent the Federation is without Reevil.
Does this not remind you of the government of a country that claims to be fighting terrorism? While in reality it is the biggest supporter of real terrorism
I have to say, your videos give light to some interesting points. The conflicts are understood more and you even make it interesting! Not to say the series wasn’t already interesting, but it does make me want to rewatch it all.
Suhan Hwang 1 - Putting their noses on something they shouldn't have on their state at the time. (Follow the idealistic char clone?! Bad, bad idea.) 2- Not further developing their forces and combat units.(Relied too much on the gundam trio. They could have searched for more frames and further developed their grunts, other than Ride's Shiden and Rodis.) 3 - Numbers(Despite Tekkadan's amazing feats in battle and the clear AV advantage, they were far too few to stand up against a entire army.). Among others x)
One major reason, I think, was their leader's decisions. Orga...wasn't that good at the conflict that IBO presented, being prone to rash decisions and generally working better when following someone else's lead.
1.Chocolate man literally fought Rustal head on despite having a 1:2 ship disadvantage. Replying way too much on his soldiers' believe in Bael. 2. Zero co-ordination, Chocolate man and Tekkadan were literally doing their own things throughout that battle. No teaming up or concentrate their MS in eliminating the flag ship and allowed Rustal to control the rhythm of the battle with his Dainslief. 3.Mikazuki showing off, that fight is probably Mika's worst performance in the 2 seasons, spending way too much time against Julietta, a pilot that is leagues below him with a suit that his lupus rex can easily trash, causing Shino to miss his shot. 4. Orga should have honestly just ejected McGillis out of the airlock of Isaribi when he heard his plan and ran like hell. Biscuit would probably be rolling in his grave (I know he didn't get one but hey) if he knew that Orga was going to throw it all in with Mcgillis. 5. Iok's luck.
The Titans seemed doomed from the start since it was a fascist military so loyalty and obedience rather than skill lead to higher rank. Scirocco is from Jupiter, another government, but within a couple months he ended up leading the Titans after joining.
Scirocco was both a charismatic genious and a very powerful Newtype, it is very likely that he could use his powers to gain other people's trust and loyalty.
@@themagicalrobotprisma2793 Yeah. but you can't deny that Zeon is the reason why they came to be. No OP. Stardust, no titans. The war might not have happened the way it did if the Zeon remnants hadn't dropped another colony onto earth. Not defending the Titans here, but if the embers of Zeon just died out, then there would be no need for the Nazi like Federation group.
#5 Jerid Messa - Seriously. This idiot was a bigger threat to his allies than the AEUG and yet he was given numerous high-performance prototypes and achieved absolutely nothing with them. The Titans would've done better if they drafted White Base's cook to pilot instead of Jerid. Thankfully, Kamille kicked him into the exploding Radish thus making it's sacrifice more meaningful.
Wait at what point did Jerid get an ally killed? maybe that one time he was given the two cyber newtype girls? I get not liking the guy but people seem to forget he honestly did some damage to the AEUG several times.
Don't forget Mouar, who, when Jerid and his Gabthley were being Gotcha!'d by Kamille, put herself(and the other Gabthley!) into the path of the shot instead of...you know, pushing Jerid out of the attack's path.
Nehfarius that’s not how this works. At best she still might have died pushing him out of the way. I see people saying that about piccolo saving Gohan in dbz. I mean it’s contrived writing admittedly lol but every show does it with their desperate heroic sacrifices.
except, not really, because they never trully cared about those "promisses", the titan is a traditional case of a militarist dictatorship, being too big to fail, makes them colapse into themselves... and fail. they focused so much on control, that they undermined everything else to achieve it.
Awesome! So glad to see this video up. Wish they would do an Advance of Zeta anime. One can dream. Wonder what shows got the ax. I'll stick around to find out. Good work. Suggestion, best grunt suits of each timeline?
A request could you make an indepth look on londo bell and wether they were a better peacekeepers than the titans was intended to be. Also on why bright noa jump ship frm aeug to londo bell (was aeug disbanded). Srry for the long rant i really like UC but has limited knowledge (i ve only watch z & zz). Sorry and tq again.
I would love an expansion on some of the finer points of this video. I know your in the middle of other projects, but i think the auidience has progressed with the channel to the point we can dig in some :)
#6 Reason: Because Jerid didnt kept his mouth shut and had to say Kamille is a girly name thus Kamille punching him to the face leading to Z Gundam's main plot
Killed whole colony with super deadly gas , and later thrown that colony to Earth killing billions? Yeaaah , that's when most people will understand that this is TOO FAR. I especialy remember that moment in Gundam Origin when Dozzle contemplated , how many Mineva's died that day , but was quick to calm down , and just decided that Federation was too weak , and it's their fault. Fucker deserves to burn in hell. Thank god Mineva herself is absolutely diffrent.
The Strike because each successive moment was either based on the ideals of Giren Zabi or Char Aznable, rather than Zeon’s true foundation Zeon zum Deikun.
Haven’t seen zeta but from what I’ve seen I think the big thing was them losing the gundam mk2, once that happened the aeug were able to the hyaku shiki and the zeta up and running from reverse engineering
You know Katarot197, gundam really makes me appreciate the Japanese story tellers. They made The Great Patriotic War palatable, but with robots and space colonies!
Surprisingly its truly sad for Earth Federation pilots and the Titan pilots. Speaking of which wonder what the TTT (Titans Test Team) had any thoughts until the bitter end?
Haman's faction was wiped out by all the in-fighting. No joke, on my official UC timeline that I got with my _Char's Counterattack_ DVD actually listed that Neo Zeon collapsed due to that. Char's (and by extension Full Frontal) got wiped out by that Colony Laser the Federation stole from the Titans. I always found this ironic that the "kindly" Fed gov't ended up Gihren's plan to force peace.
1:05 Gee i dunno about the Marasai being 'limited in production'. We saw plenty throughout the series and if memory serves, we saw a fuck ton of them in the last episodes or so.
This was very enlightening and shows that the titans were not just warmongers but also were rotten to the core from their leadership and disregard for the people the were supposed to protect. Although I praise them for the barzam is for the sole reason it was useful in the true dynasty warriors gundam stage in the second or third game so it was useful for something!
Nr 5 would be the fact that they were largely a paper tiger. The new uniform, the increase in authority and benefits compared to their ranks, the status of an elite unit and the new fancy mobile suit prototypes all gave them a sense of invincibility and superiority. Which contrast with their forces largely being filled with youngsters instead of veterans, and with what appears to be subpar training regimens and no clear sense of doctrine or war goal... their pilots, their naval personnel and so on were unprepared for the intense guerrilla war they ended up fighting. While the AEUG was staffed with both Zeon and Federation veterans from the One Year War. People like Bright or Char had plenty of experience conducting military operations against numerically superior enemies.
Anyone notice Zeon and the Titans kept using experimental machines too much. The day either faction decides on an experimental machine is the day my woman can tell me where she wants to eat.
As always, awesome video!! I have a question though. Does anyone know what happened to the Albion Crew from 0083 that joined the Titans? I can't find any info and always wondered if they stayed on.
Titans produced the Barzam while Anaheim Electronics produced the Marasai. Anaheim was cutting off with the Titans towards the mid/end (probably because of Ben Wooder's fuckup in Hong Kong) which is at least one reason Titans started making their own suits.
A big part of the disillusionment of pilots likely came from the machines they used. Many pilots wondered when they would use a machine, the Hizack, that so closely resembled the dreaded Zaku, the thing that had been the symbol of Zeon. That’s why when many Titans machines were refitted and overhauled to be used by the Federation, they were redesigned to have dual eyes instead of the moneoeye which was seen as a trait of Zeon machines, like the Byarlant Custom for example.
Actually, Scirocco could have won as the new Titans' leader. Too bad that his fleet was on the path of the Colony Laser and that he got screwed over by Kamille. If things went differently in that final battle, the Titans could have persevered. Or, if Scirocco made an alliance with the AEUG to take out Axis Zeon, the Titans might have even been the tip of the spear in that war against the first Neo-Zeon movement.
If the Titans finish the Colony laser and the fortress at the Gate of Zedan, I think the AEUG and Neo Zeon are basically forced to throw everything they have into a fight with the Titans. The Colony laser can destroy any fixed target in space and would give the titans such an overwhelming advantage that the AEUG and neo-zeon would have to fight to take or destroy it. One change though would be that if Titans were more successful, it would have been less likely that Scirocco would have been to take the Titans over.
If the Titans had been successful at Operation Apollo and Kilimanjaro, then the Federation would've most likely gone ahead with giving Jamitov full control over the regular Federation Forces. The deal was virtually done, so the Federation was inclined to keep supporting the Titans as long as they could. Then it would just be a battle to keep everything together...
5. Not properly guarding the big ass death beam. 6. Flying all forces directly in the line of fire of the enemy captured big ass death beam. 7. Not sending something to finish off the suits that Yazan cripples before he runs away for whatever reason.
Another reason from what we know of the later parts of the UC century Paptimus was a jupiterarian centrist the first infiltrator attacking earth from Jupiter and I really hope they get to making a series focusing on these later UC baddies.
Oi, the titans... they really had a somewhat fighting chance. This is my favorite gundam forever. Kamille is my spirit animal and Char looks the sexiest in this one!!! ahh. also the best soundtrack ever... such pretty strings 8D
I think the first point on prototype machines being built over mass-production ones was due to many Zeon engineers joining Anaheim after the One Year War. This meant that many philosophies of Zeon engineers at the time carried over to Federation production units, including the philosophy of creating powerful prototypes of which little were produced instead of valuing the frontline armies. These Zeon-esque production philosophies can also be seen in the appearance of the machines themselves (Hizack, Marasai, Byarlant, etc.).
My headcanon is they and the rest of the Albion crew left the Titans after Dakar is not before that once they saw how the organization got bad. It's not unheard of that Titans would leave the organization after all the horrible stuff they did. Losing federation support and siding with Axis Zeon would be more than enough.
![5 Reasons Why Zeon Lost The One Year War [Remastered]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eJU8_1_vmDM/mqdefault.jpg)
![5 Reasons Why Zeon Lost The One Year War [Remastered]](/img/tr.png)
![5 Best Outdated Mobile Suits [UC]](/img/n.gif)
For clarification: The Titans' warcrimes and attitude towards spacenoids didn't get their own point to avoid repetition as they are brought up throughout the video.
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Glad Sentinel Gundam finished off the few Titans members left by the end of the first neo zeon war who were just scum... Oh yeah could you do a video on why the first neo zeon group lost?
I have to say this was well done man. I honestly came to alot of the same conclusions. Let me know if you ever do OZ some SEED factions Id be glad to have a disscussion about them anytime :)!!
it would be great if you cover as well the titans in the advance zeta, I'm confused in the logo of the titans here and the titans logo in the hazels are different
@@gravefox4206 I... Have had trouble watching seed due to a few reasons. Maybe i can convince myself? What do you like about it and why would you say i should watch it?
Im not the biggest fan of SEED the first was good but ic alot of the reasons SEED Destiny wasnt as well received Id say watch them and then see how you feel I mostly watch gundam for the Mecha in the end. if anything i liked that unlike Feds vs Zeon. there was a real genetic dived between the allaince and ZAFT with naturals and Coordinators it reminded me of EXO-Squad with humans vs Neosapians
The titans literally had one job: stop Zeon from resurfacing. They then started gassing colonies, using upgraded Zakus, built a giant laser and worked with Axis. With such a colossal lack of self awareness, it was only a matter of time before they went under.
They literally became zeon, just with federation uniforms
I am sure the parallels were obvious to the rest of the Federation's armed forces.
Considering some Titans Remnants joined both Axis Zeon and Mars Zeon. . . Yeah
Earth federation: You have became the very thing you swore to destroy!
@@RougeNoire2757 Titans: "Don't lecture the Titans feddie. We've seen the lies of The Zeon, we do not fear the Zeon as you do"
Gotta love how the biggest reason the Zeon and Titans lost in their respective wars could practically be boiled down to in-fighting
Both are based on fascist regimes, with Zeon having the huge issues of nepotism and the Zabi family being the way they were, and the Titans being extremely forthright with "might makes right" attitudes and mindsets. EVERYONE was vying for power in the Titans, with Zeon really being prone to internal divisions between branches.
I mean the Zeeks ALWAYS do that.
At this point that's a trope in gundam
And money management, they were both terrible with money..
@@sleepysloth9765 Interesting side of things I never considered. They both just made so many MS, is that what impacted them fiscally, or was there much more to it than that?
Reason #5: Kamille is ACTUALLY a man's name
It actually is. One of my officemates is named Kamil.
He's 6ft 2 and lifts weights.
YOU tell him it's a girl's name, I dare ya!
Welp, here in Poland Kamil (actual writing) is a man's name
But in countries like Spain Kamille is a female's name
Kamille was born in Britain to French parents. He's named after Camille Saint-Saëns, a french composer and a MAN (Tomino likes naming characters after French musicians). So yeah, he actually does have a man's name. He's French, they roll like that.
Well, Jerid's surname is spanish so that explains it all
@@GetterRay and the feminime ver should be Cammila
Reason #5 They manage to make Amuro and char to be in the same side of the war. Thats is major disadvantage considering the plot armor stack lol
When i first saw amuro back in the fight. I was like " its all over for the titans " there doomed gone game over man i was laughing my butt off. He took the rig dias & show kamille the ways of the white devil
Amuro wny crazy in the rick dias@@lockheedhenesy3899
A couple other important points:
1) Anaheim Electronics acting independently of both the federation and the titans was a biggest factor in the war. One way of looking at the entire conflict was that it was less a military conflict than a business/political conflict between Anaheim and Jamitov with everyone else being their pawns.
2) The biggest mistake of the war was the Titans attempting to go directly after Anaheim and their cities on the moon. Anaheim responded by trading side 3 to Neo Zeon in exchange for an alliance with their AEUG forces The alliance between the AEUG & Neo Zeon led to the military defeat of the Titans the loss of the Colony laser.
3) What was left of the Titans after what I would consider their initial military defeat was destroyed by Scirocco who was an utterly terrible and incompetent leader. Scirocco had killed the military leadership of the Titans and not replaced it with anything. Rather than directing the operations of the fleet, he was flying around the battlefield as a pilot. For lack of direction, somehow nearly the entire Titans fleet positioned itself in front of the colony laser and was destroyed.
Its why I've always thought to myself that the ultimate villains, at least thru 0083 to ZZ were Anahiem Electronics.
After the One Year War they absorbed their competitors and had a monopoly on MS production until Axis showed up. Ideologies and war crimes aside, who got to walk away from each conflict with a pretty penny every time?
Jim Tuner Jim Tuner I don’t think Anaheim’s actions were that much of a factor at the beginning. The company was massive in size and scope and pretty much operated like a Zaibatzu with multiple departments acting independently from one another or with very little oversight from the general management, the best case I can think of was the RMS-108 Marasai, originally that MS was intended for the AEUG and yet Anaheim gave it to the Titans, even the Titan officer overseeing the transfer commented on the company’s actions of arming both sides to which the company representative merely replied they were keeping all their options open. The titans attack on the lunar cities change all of that and put Anaheim against them but that was much late in the war and by that point after the Dakar fiasco the Titans were well on the way to defeat.
The interesting thing is that the Titans developed the Mark II Gundam on their own, the AEUG steals them and then Anaheim steps in to give them the Marasai almost in compensation. If you are cynical enough, you could almost see Anaheim getting the AEUG to effectively wreck the Titan's plans to build their own mobile suits to destroy a potential business competitor,
I agree that Anaheim was a Zaibatzu and that different groups inside the company had different motives for what they were doing. But they seemed at least to me to be in total control of the AEUG from at the least the beginning of the Zeta series. Even in 0083, Anaheim (at least the groups on the moon) were less than loyal to the federation and seemed to be quietly helping the Zeon reminent forces.
How much influence the company had over the AEUG is a matter of debate, there are examples of the company forcing the AEUG's hand like when Wong Lee forced the issue of the Jaburo operation against the advice of most of the group's military leadership. But there are also examples of the company acting on its own without consulting with the AEUG like when they made the deal with Hamman Khan that led to the destruction of the Gate of Zedan.
Throughout most of the Gryps War Anaheim was effectively playing a win-win strategy. If the AEUG won then Anaheim could claim they helped them against the Titans tyranny if on the other hand the Titans won then Anaheim could point out their support against the rebel forces. In the end because of its decentralized structure and little oversight Anaheim could easily make a case to the victor that the company's upper management was unaware of what their department chiefs were doing with their assets. Anaheim getting the MK-II was a mere convenience like what happened after the OYW when the company absorbed the Zeon MS development firms Zeonic, MIP and Zimbad which is why many of their MS like the Rick Dias, the Hizack and the Marassai had distinct Zeon features like the mono eye.
Its also important to remember that when Unicorn Gundam came it revealed a very important piece of the Anaheim puzzle. For all intents and purposes Anaheim was an extension of the Vist Foundation whose founder Syam Vist got extremely powerful and wealthy thanks to his possession of the Laplace Box. From then on if you look at the company's history you have to admit they were the ones who always benefited the most from every conflict and interestingly always played all sides. In char's counterattack the Mobile Suits that Neo Zeon used were built by Anaheim's Granada factory despite the fact that they were clearly intended to be used against the Federation.
@@georgeleon1263 everything you just explained sounds similar to Umbrella from resident evil (minus the win win part) Umbrella had the intention of bio warfare where as Anaheim had its bases covered so long as they could profit from both sides with very little blow backs on there end, which is extremely 1 sided like damn.
"How could the Titans lose? They had such cool uniforms and they lost to a bunch of guys with bright orange-yellow pilot su..."
(Sees the Galactic Empire lose to the Rebellion)
"...oh."
@John O McDonald Old Star Wars in-joke. Was popular among friends of mine back when Tie Fighter came out on PC
The Empire lost to the Rebellion because of Darth Vader. If Palpatine survived, he would have easily recouped his losses and launched another attack on the Rebel Alliance. But since Vader killed him, it turned the whole Empire into a galactic version of Somalia-dominated by local warlords with nobody for them to answer to. The Empire fell into military anarchy as a succession war broke out between Palpatine's goons as to who succeeds the old man, while the Rebellion transformed into the New Republic and slowly gobbled up territory as they made a push for the core.
If Vader didn't duel Luke, and instead piloted his TIE Advanced to stop the Millenium Falcon from entering the Death Star 2, would things have gone differently?
@@thomas_mafty_haha Obviously.
@@HolyknightVader999 thanks to Disney because that story will ruined soon 😂😂😂
How the hell Palpatine survived Death star 2 explosion anyway and appears in next star wars....?! 🤔 Dammit Disney
The important reason: Mission Creep. The Titans purpose was to act as a security and police force for the Colonies against Zeon Remnants and Axis Zeon. They were an elite force given the importance of that mission. However this necessarily meant that there weren't very many of them (combined with the woeful state of Federation Mobile Suit and general arms production, procurement, and modernization in peace time). So any expansion of the role of the Titans must necessarily come at the expense of its main job: Paramilitary Policing.
When the war went hot with the AEUG, this exposed the problems with Jamitov Haimen's plot to take over the Federation. The Titans were building massive battleships (like the Alexandria) at the expense of other craft necessary for patrols and fleet engagements. They were putting funds into both Newtype Research generally and Artificial Newtype Creation, which were beyond their remit and could end up creating a powerful super human capable of bending others with the force of his charisma and mind (which is what happened with Sirrocco). And they had committed to building or purchasing high performance machines at the expense of their main suits (likely prior to the war when it made sense), however when the Titans expanded with the mission of fighting the war, this meant that there fewer to go around in a larger force.
Titans logic: We are hunting down Zeon Remnants so let’s upgrade the existing Zakus made by the Zeons and use it against them! That way we can cut cost and build a expensive MA that is big and is a Gundam! Oh and don’t forget to call Paptimis Scirrocco for help, I mean what is he gonna do? Back stab our leader and make off with the women?
*Laughs in Harman Karn and angry Kamille*
Neo Zeon after the Gryphs war:
Wow, look at all these upgraded Zakus! Thanks Titans!
Federation and AEUG: God Damn It
Another reason, the capture of the Gryps II colony laser by the AEUG. That's like the Rebel Alliance capturing the Death Star.
Add in that the rebel alliance was led by Darth Vader (Char) when it captured the death star.
I always wanted to make a "Zeta Gundam" style replacement story for "Empire Strikes Back".
There is a new republic just as bad as the empire. Darth Vader is now the hero leader of the new rebels. Luke Skywalker is under house arrest. Han Solo is a civilian transport pilot (i.e. Bright Noah) And Leia is a conflicted member of the bad government.
The more I think about it. The more I think that the new star wars films should just adopted the plot of Zeta Gundam.
@@Jim-Tuner Nigga, please. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AWESOME. Star Wars is a joke, now. I only wish Star Wars did what you're suggesting here, honestly.
@@Jim-Tuner That sounds amazing tbh. Just remove or modify the *really* clunkiest parts of Zeta (very few of them are) and it's good to go.
Though let's be honest here. Modern Disney is "play it ultra safe", so they'd never go for a story this morally grey.
"Zeta's not that morally grey, though."
I know. THAT'S THE ISSUE.
@@aptspire read the legacy of the force books it's a part of the old EU Star wars before Disney. It's great after years of fighting imperial remnants and threats from the outer edges of the galaxy the new republic under the tryannical rule of a new sith Lord Darth Cadis who no one knows is a sith forms a elite paramilitary group known as the galactica alliance security or GAR for short and uses them for nefarious means. It's really good I'm leaving a lot out so I don't spoil everything but if you like star wars and zeta you'll probably like this
@@drakeevans8042 Hell, the Galactic Alliance (the New Republic's successor state) even elects an imperial warlord as the head of state. And her personal animosity with the Jedi drove them away and turned them into a rogue force sect, and now there was no external check on corruption with the state.
I really need to find those books somewhere.
#5 reliance on Cyber Newtypes.
In addition to all the prototypes the Titans made, they also relied heavily on the very little of Cyber Newtypes they made. And those they relied on were super mentally unstable. Pretty bad combo of prototype human weapons and prototype weapons.
They did seem to break down all the time. Four was super cool at first. But rosemary was all over the place with her chicken little the sky is falling then big bother.
their regular pilots were pretty fucking useless too
Every single cyber newtype was unstable. Rosamia, Four, Puru, etc. all of em were batshit crazy. You can’t go “creating” Newtypes. It’s why every single one of them eventually got owned when they fought against real Newtypes like Kamille Char and Judau
Not to mention said Cyber Newtypes were basically rookie pilots in of themselves, at or barely above the rank of Ensign. It's blatantly obvious they wanted their own Amuro Ray. After all, Amuro was a teenager who had no training whatsoever when he first stumbled into the cockpit of the Gundam, so surely a slightly more prepared soldier with an even more powerful machine could produce better results, right?
@@ttravis10 Maybe it was just experience. Natural Newtypes had their whole lives to adjust to their talents.
So basically the Titans didn't learn from Zeon's mistakes.
In all seriousness though, this is more timely in this day and age. How many governments in the real world are currently acting on "protecting their people from terrorist threats" as an excuse to expand their power and influence on teir own citizens?
If you're going to fight monsters, make sure you don't become one
Let me put it in a way you can understand: technology changes rights. No more, no less. The more technology comes into the picture, the more rights and freedoms change.
The only 'basic right' is, quite literally, not getting murdered. Everything else is determined by technology. Why do you think slavery and serfdom lasted in one way or another for over 4,000 years? Because the technological context requires you to force a rather significant (something between three quarters to all the way to the mid-90s) portion of your population to produce food and since food production is generally thankless and backbreaking work and the most money is made in the urban areas, you have to tie people down to the land. That is why the most capable civilizations rose in fertile areas almost exclusively (fertility is, in effect, a technological advantage) and not everywhere else. The various Greek civilizations being one of the very few exceptions.
In our evolving technological context. OH BOY, are we going to have a nice, nasty ride. Welcome to a world where idiots with more ideology than sense are going to start using gene-tech for their own purposes and people start using memetic weapons like jet fuel. Privacy, in this sort of situation, is no longer possible nor viable. Unlimited information is now a detriment to not only policy but people's lives. What we've assumed to be static is actually fluid.
Even I had to come to this realization, and that was a while back.
Worse now than when this comment was posted, and they're not even hiding their fascism anymore.
@@titan133760 No, you make better ones to fight the worst ones.
> the usa
Reason #6: They should have focused on better ties between them and the Spacenoids, see them as citizens of the Feddies and treated them like one. If they had done that, Karaba and AEUG would not have those skilled and professional pilots like Emma becoming disillusioned and defecting to Kamille and Quattro.
Reason #7: they should had treated Bright Noa better not make him a glorified limo driver since everyone overlooked his achievements with Amuro and the White Base crew. And we know the BRIGHT SLAP, a slap so powerful it makes any whining kid into a capable adult or make any cocky and hardheaded crew or pilot,realiable.
5: Experamental use of creating Newtypes that ended in failiure, sometimes killed by the may protagonus or other Titants members hands others going awol from the constant expermentation on their mind. Four Marasume and Rosamia Bardon are the clear cases for this. Four disobedeince and anguish when piloting the Psyco Gundam and Rosamia compleate mental breakdown from her concern of "They Sky is falling" To an episodic relapss and mentality of a child.
Granted, later on the Neo Zeon forces does use Cyber-Newtypes and cloning them as well, but the pure fact remains that the Titans was the first recorded orginization that did this, with the Federation's stamp of approval.
If you consider evolve canon, the AEUG isn't exactly innocent of newtype experimentation either, but the titans were definitely worse in this regard.
@shadowshinobi06 Yep , Glemmy was much more sucsessful in that regard.
One of them even survived , atleast up until the end of Unicorn...
Also in Gundam Evolve , in one of the episodes about Judau , he met a pilot that wears the same suit Puru Two wore and piloted Qubeley.
You forgot one thing,the Titans had Gates Capa which was completley stable but less powerfull than Rosammia. They should have produced more Gates and not trying to push firther as they were trying to do with Four. Its jeter to have 4 average Cuver Newtyle with complete mental stability than 1 with insane powers but unstable as fuck
Another reason I would add to the defeat of the Titans is because they choose the Hizack as a mass production MS instead of mass producing the Pale Rider without H.A.D.E.S.
What convinced me Kakarot197 was a true Gundam fan? Was it his deep knowledge of the lore? His understanding and assessment of the many anti-war themes and motifs of the franchise? His endless encyclopedic knowledge of MS? NO... it's when he properly uses "... however" in the must Gundam way possible lol
Fun fact: Bask Om was killed off by two pilots is both adaptations of Zeta. The first was Reccoa/Emma while the other was Yazan the violator
It's karma to watch the asshole die in 0083 he was commanding the second solar system and still missed a colony and was making deals with the Zeon he was ment to be fighting.
I don’t think the technological aspect play that much of a factor. While the Nemo was a significant upgrade over the GM II it wasn’t that much superior to the Titans own machines, even the Hizack was still able to hold its own against it. The vast majority of Titan losses were at the hands of the AEUG aces Kamille, Emma, Char and company.
The two factors I think really doomed the Titans were points 3 and 4, their actions through the conflict and extreamly poor leadership.
How about not keeping their Cyber Newtypes under control, not treating them like actual human beings, and not dealing with the psychological problems that came with becoming a CN?
Joining the space Nazis isn't necessarily the best place to go to be treated like a human being lol.
Just like joining them because you wanted to be treated like a woman is retarded.
In the big picture the cyber newtypes played a very small role to be honest. Even without the cyber newtype project they would have lost the war. Same with Zeon in the OYW... once a tipping point was reached there was no going back... even if they hadnt lost at on earth, as soon as axis showed up they had lost the war.
Their poor treatment of cyber newtypes just underscored that they are "da evil guys" and to make the heros look that much more heroic and tragic in turn.
There is also the fact that there was little knowlege availabe about Newtypes in the first place. Along with the fact they where desperate to the point where they would put people through hell to find normal Newtypes. See "The Guntank Insident" and "Fishing for Newtypes" videos that Kararot197 has on his channel to see what I mean.
1: incompetence
2:being evil because, evil.
3:corruption beyond belief, no wonder they use the federation used Brazil's flag...
4:stupidity to the point of being cartoony.
5:a system with Anthem's levels of broken. seriously, its a miracle they even survived long enough to stay in power for more than a week!
Tomino expert da história do Brasil desde 1979
4.1: They were so stupid that misgendering some kid caused them their defeat.
Over reliance on high preforming prototypes hmm... doesn't that sound familiar
It was a slightly different problem. The Titans problem was that the main supplier of mobile suits and mobile suit technology for the federation was the covert sponsor of the AEUG. The AEUG was getting the good stuff and the Titans were getting whatever was left over.
No why😜
Actually No. Many of the prototypes and such fielded by the Titans/Federation were NOT developed by Anaheim. Instead. They were independently developed by different bases on Earth, or Titan's handful of Space Bases like Gryps or Luna II. Heck. Even the Barzam wasn't really developed by Anaheim. Of the Federation/Titan mobile suits, only the Hi-Zack and the Marasai was developed by Anaheim. Everything was developed in-house by the Federation and the Titans.
Reminded me of the Zeon and Gelgoogs
Kind of, but the difference was that the Titans were an elite organization, so they had an excuse for relying on high performance prototypes. Plus, the Federation has literally all the money in the world. The Titans could've created whatever the hell they wanted.
New subscriber. Never really grew up with the gundam franchise but your analysis and narration with the huge lore of the franchise in a concise manner have been an absolute joy to watch.
I look forward to watching all of your backlog
Another reasons they lost
5: Kamile, they murdered his mother
6: They abused their power and did inhumane tactics like taking the enemies family and friends hostages and killing their love ones
7: Trusting scirocco
The titans began in dec 0083 and ended in feb 0088. Four years and two months.
why wouldnt they trust scirocco? the guy made a piece of crap that made the ball look like a high end machine... and almost won with it! if anything imagine if he piloted something that actually worked like a gm 2, or a hizack!
@@marcosdheleno Many titan members were killing each other for power and felt that their leaders were incompetent.
8. Keep those parasite (Bask Om) established in to Nothing but Tyranny
@@supbro4964 shouldn't put bask in power
@@AH-is5yg right, he orchestrated it since 0083 noted that
#5 The Titans had too many people with separate agendas and/or grudges. For example, when Yazan orchestrated Jamaican's death
Do a video on which Char Clone (excluding Char Anzabel) is a better MS pilot? In their base mobile suit no extra mobile armor attachment.
Full Frontal. No arguments.
@@thezucc2927 Does he really count? He's more or less Char but in a different body.
I think the best is confirmed to be Milliardo Peacecraft? Like due to his feats.
@@goldenmaskedgaming2327 He counts, even if he's Char in a different body. Just the most sorrowful part of him at that point, not him as a whole.
@@thezucc2927 I nominate Afranche Char the only literal Clone of Char.
Shirocco made a big mistake by assassinating Jamitov and Bask during the final phase. Same as Kishillia's mistake.
Another reason is despite the Titans getting some powerful newtypes like Sirroucco, Emma Sheen, and Mour Pharoh they preffered to rely on the cyber newtypes to field their most major offensives. This was just not a good idea, and its likely because the Titans with their Earthnoid supremicy had a strict you had to be born on Earth policy to join, this meant the amount of actual newtype's they had would indeed be small. Yet certain exceptions were maid such as Sirrouco and his Jupiter fleet but we all know how that ended.
While many ace pilots of the One Year War and Stardust were joining the AEUG, along with many capable newtypes such as Kamille, Asuna Elmarit, Emma Sheen, Quattro Bajeena, Amuro Ray, Judau Astha and so forth joined the AEUG too. say what you will about the newtype theory but a massive amount of newtypes in one group over a few cyber newtypes and even fewer true newtypes in a mostly old type force meant that the difference in skill and experience was with the AEUG as many titans had little wartime experience.
Two more points that the Titans lost the war are
#1 Relying on the unstable cyber newtypes instead of real newtypes.
#2 Fight the war on multiple fronts. The Titans were fighting AEUG in space, Karaba on Earth, looking for Zeon from the One Year War, keeping the colonies underfoot, and having to deal the arrival of Zeon from Axis. If they stuck to one or two of those at a time while letting the regular forces or some other special faction, then they wouldn't be spread so thin to keep losing most of the time.
Good video. If there's one thing I'll always like about them it's that spicy mono eye suit aesthetic with federation uniforms and ships.
Yea in hindsight the Titans are like the Teutonic order, in paper they claim to protect you from threat but in reality they’re the threat, using whatever means necessary to increase their power, plus their higher ups are mostly consisted of people who’s in it for themselves and not for the people
Who loves false flag operations?
And in the end, the Teutonic Order was taken down by an alliance of people who used to be their allies, like the Catholic Poles and Lithuanians. In this case, the Titans were obliterated by disgruntled Feddie pilots joining the AEUG and Axis Zeon.
The sad thing is that you could say the same thing about the AEUG. They were basically puppets of Anaheim Electronics and were to a degree just as false as defenders of the colonies as the Titans were in terms of being defenders of the federation.
Its somewhat implied that by the time of Char's Counterattack that the AEUG (with Bright and Amuro) had evolved into a new less murderous version of the Titans keeping the spacenoids under control for the federation.
The Federation tried their hands at being space Nazis and they fucked it up. While the original space Nazis are still going at it fifty years later. Just goes to show how incompetent the Federation is without Reevil.
Does this not remind you of the government of a country that claims to be fighting terrorism?
While in reality it is the biggest supporter of real terrorism
I have to say, your videos give light to some interesting points. The conflicts are understood more and you even make it interesting! Not to say the series wasn’t already interesting, but it does make me want to rewatch it all.
Great video per usual. I passed this around to some of my friends, hope they'll stick around for your always good content.
Can you do 5 reasons why Tekkadan lost against gillahorn?
Suhan Hwang 1 - Putting their noses on something they shouldn't have on their state at the time. (Follow the idealistic char clone?! Bad, bad idea.) 2- Not further developing their forces and combat units.(Relied too much on the gundam trio. They could have searched for more frames and further developed their grunts, other than Ride's Shiden and Rodis.) 3 - Numbers(Despite Tekkadan's amazing feats in battle and the clear AV advantage, they were far too few to stand up against a entire army.). Among others x)
You mean Rustal's? :/
One major reason, I think, was their leader's decisions. Orga...wasn't that good at the conflict that IBO presented, being prone to rash decisions and generally working better when following someone else's lead.
Oh, you mean Gali-Gali?
1.Chocolate man literally fought Rustal head on despite having a 1:2 ship disadvantage. Replying way too much on his soldiers' believe in Bael.
2. Zero co-ordination, Chocolate man and Tekkadan were literally doing their own things throughout that battle. No teaming up or concentrate their MS in eliminating the flag ship and allowed Rustal to control the rhythm of the battle with his Dainslief.
3.Mikazuki showing off, that fight is probably Mika's worst performance in the 2 seasons, spending way too much time against Julietta, a pilot that is leagues below him with a suit that his lupus rex can easily trash, causing Shino to miss his shot.
4. Orga should have honestly just ejected McGillis out of the airlock of Isaribi when he heard his plan and ran like hell. Biscuit would probably be rolling in his grave (I know he didn't get one but hey) if he knew that Orga was going to throw it all in with Mcgillis.
5. Iok's luck.
The Titans seemed doomed from the start since it was a fascist military so loyalty and obedience rather than skill lead to higher rank. Scirocco is from Jupiter, another government, but within a couple months he ended up leading the Titans after joining.
Scirocco was both a charismatic genious and a very powerful Newtype, it is very likely that he could use his powers to gain other people's trust and loyalty.
@@Hektols& he's a womanizer. Look what happened to reccoa got her ass killed by emma
Reason #5: You don't slap Bright Noa. Bright Noa slaps you.
Well you forget jerid calling kamille a girl, that seemed to be pretty important
No shit. And they didn't know that this is not anime!! ((I'll see myself out...))
@@Squiggles01 and that people die when they are killed, let's not forget about that
@@themagicalrobotprisma2793 Yeah. but you can't deny that Zeon is the reason why they came to be. No OP. Stardust, no titans. The war might not have happened the way it did if the Zeon remnants hadn't dropped another colony onto earth. Not defending the Titans here, but if the embers of Zeon just died out, then there would be no need for the Nazi like Federation group.
All Titans,s Problems Come from Leadership of Jamitov,You Put Someone in Smart and Competent in 84 UC in Jamitov,s body,You Fix All IT.
:43 Probably the beginning of the series as well
1:59 Thank Bask Om for that one!
5:36 They were MADE to destroy the Zeon!
#5 Jerid Messa - Seriously. This idiot was a bigger threat to his allies than the AEUG and yet he was given numerous high-performance prototypes and achieved absolutely nothing with them. The Titans would've done better if they drafted White Base's cook to pilot instead of Jerid. Thankfully, Kamille kicked him into the exploding Radish thus making it's sacrifice more meaningful.
Wait at what point did Jerid get an ally killed? maybe that one time he was given the two cyber newtype girls? I get not liking the guy but people seem to forget he honestly did some damage to the AEUG several times.
Don't forget Mouar, who, when Jerid and his Gabthley were being Gotcha!'d by Kamille, put herself(and the other Gabthley!) into the path of the shot instead of...you know, pushing Jerid out of the attack's path.
Nehfarius that’s not how this works. At best she still might have died pushing him out of the way. I see people saying that about piccolo saving Gohan in dbz. I mean it’s contrived writing admittedly lol but every show does it with their desperate heroic sacrifices.
#6 The Titans did not have enough salt.
Ironicly Jerid was a Newtype himself and didnt even know it XD
I hope more people will appreciate even the old gundam series. as for myself, your uploads means a lot to me. cheers (^_^)
I think the old hand drawn gundam series are the best.
Titans would resort to the very tactics that they were sworn to prevent
"You have become the very thing you swore to destroy"
except, not really, because they never trully cared about those "promisses", the titan is a traditional case of a militarist dictatorship, being too big to fail, makes them colapse into themselves... and fail. they focused so much on control, that they undermined everything else to achieve it.
Great video! I loved Zeta Gundam and (to a lesser extent) 0083 Stardust Memory. Thanks for focusing on the Titans.
Awesome! So glad to see this video up. Wish they would do an Advance of Zeta anime. One can dream. Wonder what shows got the ax. I'll stick around to find out. Good work. Suggestion, best grunt suits of each timeline?
#5 because they were evil.
Zeta gundam is still my favorite gundam series of all time.
Thanks for making this video, I recently began watching Gundam again and I became really interested in the Titans.
#6: They couldn't figure out the difference between black and very dark blue
A request could you make an indepth look on londo bell and wether they were a better peacekeepers than the titans was intended to be. Also on why bright noa jump ship frm aeug to londo bell (was aeug disbanded). Srry for the long rant i really like UC but has limited knowledge (i ve only watch z & zz). Sorry and tq again.
I would love an expansion on some of the finer points of this video. I know your in the middle of other projects, but i think the auidience has progressed with the channel to the point we can dig in some :)
#6 Reason: Because Jerid didnt kept his mouth shut and had to say Kamille is a girly name thus Kamille punching him to the face leading to Z Gundam's main plot
Video Suggestion.
Why Neo Zeon Movement's keep failing.
Or "why the Earth Federation never tries to improve relations with colonies/spacenoids"
Neo Zeon movements failed because of a lack of resources. Kinda hard to beat someone that outnumbers you 50:1
they can't gain a spacenoid's support. remember original 'zeon' massacre the bilions of space noids? It's like nazis SS try to gain a support of Jews.
Killed whole colony with super deadly gas , and later thrown that colony to Earth killing billions?
Yeaaah , that's when most people will understand that this is TOO FAR.
I especialy remember that moment in Gundam Origin when Dozzle contemplated , how many Mineva's died that day , but was quick to calm down , and just decided that Federation was too weak , and it's their fault.
Fucker deserves to burn in hell.
Thank god Mineva herself is absolutely diffrent.
The Strike because each successive moment was either based on the ideals of Giren Zabi or Char Aznable, rather than Zeon’s true foundation Zeon zum Deikun.
Haven’t seen zeta but from what I’ve seen I think the big thing was them losing the gundam mk2, once that happened the aeug were able to the hyaku shiki and the zeta up and running from reverse engineering
You know Katarot197, gundam really makes me appreciate the Japanese story tellers.
They made The Great Patriotic War palatable, but with robots and space colonies!
You should do a "Why Zeon lost the First Neo Zeon War."
i love how the GM sniper II K9 is your intro picture.
please keep up this great videos
Surprisingly its truly sad for Earth Federation pilots and the Titan pilots. Speaking of which wonder what the TTT (Titans Test Team) had any thoughts until the bitter end?
How about why neo zeon lost the first neo zeon war?
Haman's faction was wiped out by all the in-fighting. No joke, on my official UC timeline that I got with my _Char's Counterattack_ DVD actually listed that Neo Zeon collapsed due to that. Char's (and by extension Full Frontal) got wiped out by that Colony Laser the Federation stole from the Titans. I always found this ironic that the "kindly" Fed gov't ended up Gihren's plan to force peace.
Neo Decimo banked all their hopes on one operation and didn’t have a plan to move forward after dropping the colony.
On that first point, Anaheim electronics and the visit family really did decide the way the war went huh? Well, at least till the events of Unicorn.
Great video these points are true. The titans really had a lot of weakness.
Another very quality video. Good job, man.
Great video as always man.
1:05 Gee i dunno about the Marasai being 'limited in production'. We saw plenty throughout the series and if memory serves, we saw a fuck ton of them in the last episodes or so.
This was very enlightening and shows that the titans were not just warmongers but also were rotten to the core from their leadership and disregard for the people the were supposed to protect. Although I praise them for the barzam is for the sole reason it was useful in the true dynasty warriors gundam stage in the second or third game so it was useful for something!
At least the Federation learnt for once from it with Londo Bell.
Good video with perfect points. Do you going to do a "Why Zancare Empires Lost"?
*flashbacks*
loving this type of content. keep it up
Nr 5 would be the fact that they were largely a paper tiger. The new uniform, the increase in authority and benefits compared to their ranks, the status of an elite unit and the new fancy mobile suit prototypes all gave them a sense of invincibility and superiority. Which contrast with their forces largely being filled with youngsters instead of veterans, and with what appears to be subpar training regimens and no clear sense of doctrine or war goal... their pilots, their naval personnel and so on were unprepared for the intense guerrilla war they ended up fighting.
While the AEUG was staffed with both Zeon and Federation veterans from the One Year War. People like Bright or Char had plenty of experience conducting military operations against numerically superior enemies.
Great video!!! I love these types of videos!
Can you do more lore? I actually love that someone's doing this.
Anyone notice Zeon and the Titans kept using experimental machines too much. The day either faction decides on an experimental machine is the day my woman can tell me where she wants to eat.
Love ur lists like this!
As always, awesome video!!
I have a question though. Does anyone know what happened to the Albion Crew from 0083 that joined the Titans? I can't find any info and always wondered if they stayed on.
As far as I’ve found, all but Kou stayed with the Titans. At least according The the various wikis I’ve scoured.
5. Making the people who they were supposed to protect hate them. Ultimately leading people to side with AEUG
Can you do a video on Neo Zeons chances against the EF? I mean the first Neo Zeon from ZZ Gundam.
I don't think I've ever said but this is one of my favorite lore videos I love the thought process.
I never understood why the Titans never mass produced the Marasai. It’s basically a Hi-zack that doesn’t suck so why even bother with the Barzam?
Titans produced the Barzam while Anaheim Electronics produced the Marasai. Anaheim was cutting off with the Titans towards the mid/end (probably because of Ben Wooder's fuckup in Hong Kong) which is at least one reason Titans started making their own suits.
It’s the cool uniforms that did them in
Those must have been expensive being cool and all
A big part of the disillusionment of pilots likely came from the machines they used. Many pilots wondered when they would use a machine, the Hizack, that so closely resembled the dreaded Zaku, the thing that had been the symbol of Zeon. That’s why when many Titans machines were refitted and overhauled to be used by the Federation, they were redesigned to have dual eyes instead of the moneoeye which was seen as a trait of Zeon machines, like the Byarlant Custom for example.
Could you do a reasons why the a laws lost list please.
2:05 This scene is from which episode?
Actually, Scirocco could have won as the new Titans' leader. Too bad that his fleet was on the path of the Colony Laser and that he got screwed over by Kamille. If things went differently in that final battle, the Titans could have persevered. Or, if Scirocco made an alliance with the AEUG to take out Axis Zeon, the Titans might have even been the tip of the spear in that war against the first Neo-Zeon movement.
if titans made an alliance with AEUG, then AEUG should change it's name lol.
@@PicnicDeficiencySyndrome They would revert back to being Earth Federal Forces. Or at least become Londo Bell.
What if the truth of the atrocities came out, but the string of AEUG Victories/Titan Failures had been flip flopped?
If the Titans finish the Colony laser and the fortress at the Gate of Zedan, I think the AEUG and Neo Zeon are basically forced to throw everything they have into a fight with the Titans. The Colony laser can destroy any fixed target in space and would give the titans such an overwhelming advantage that the AEUG and neo-zeon would have to fight to take or destroy it.
One change though would be that if Titans were more successful, it would have been less likely that Scirocco would have been to take the Titans over.
If the Titans had been successful at Operation Apollo and Kilimanjaro, then the Federation would've most likely gone ahead with giving Jamitov full control over the regular Federation Forces. The deal was virtually done, so the Federation was inclined to keep supporting the Titans as long as they could. Then it would just be a battle to keep everything together...
It's like the Zein Empire again, mass producing units and rushing prototypes
5. Not properly guarding the big ass death beam.
6. Flying all forces directly in the line of fire of the enemy captured big ass death beam.
7. Not sending something to finish off the suits that Yazan cripples before he runs away for whatever reason.
never knew the number of colonies there are, that quote of "hundred of colonies" its correct?
The never specified the number of colonies, this allows the owners of the Gundam franchise to add new factions for new stories.
Wow i didnt realise the titans didnt rly have a proper mass-produced main MS
Another reason from what we know of the later parts of the UC century Paptimus was a jupiterarian centrist the first infiltrator attacking earth from Jupiter and I really hope they get to making a series focusing on these later UC baddies.
Love these videos!
Reason #5 They said Kamille wasn't a man's name
Titans had the best standard Uniforms IMO
What is the name of the music that plays in the number three spot it's gorgeous
Oi, the titans... they really had a somewhat fighting chance. This is my favorite gundam forever. Kamille is my spirit animal and Char looks the sexiest in this one!!! ahh. also the best soundtrack ever... such pretty strings 8D
I think the first point on prototype machines being built over mass-production ones was due to many Zeon engineers joining Anaheim after the One Year War. This meant that many philosophies of Zeon engineers at the time carried over to Federation production units, including the philosophy of creating powerful prototypes of which little were produced instead of valuing the frontline armies. These Zeon-esque production philosophies can also be seen in the appearance of the machines themselves (Hizack, Marasai, Byarlant, etc.).
Pls make a top 5 best mass production mobile suits. It would be awesome to see those badass suits in the spotlight!
Are there any other reason why ZAFT lost the Bloody Valentine War?
What happened to Lt Bate, Adel, and moncha from 0083 and the rest of the Albion crew?
What is the name of the music that plays in the number three spot it's gorgeous
My headcanon is they and the rest of the Albion crew left the Titans after Dakar is not before that once they saw how the organization got bad. It's not unheard of that Titans would leave the organization after all the horrible stuff they did. Losing federation support and siding with Axis Zeon would be more than enough.
Does anyone know where “Top 5 reasons why zeon lost the war” video is? I’m worried it got deleted.
"good soldiers follow orders" - tup
Love your videos
VIDEO SUGGESTIONS
Top 10 Titans MS