My understanding is that a cordelette is a loop of rope/cord. Webolette is a Mountain Tools trademarked length of webbing with eyes at each end. Similar uses, slightly different end attachments.
This is a great video. A friend and I are just starting to look into rappelling and this was very helpful. What length and thickness of webbing were you using here (or would you recommend)?
That yellow piece is 40 feet. All my webbing is 1" sewn tubular. Any climbing store should carry it in multiple colors. I recommend having different lengths in different colors. Have fun rappelling! It's a fun time.
You're welcome. It's a fun sport to learn. Feel free to let me know if you have any questions. If you haven't already, you might get a lot from this playlist: Beginner Rappelling and Knots: th-cam.com/play/PLNcpRGw7T0bj3IMJQG8WDyUBquw4Xe4YP.html
Thank you for the sub! I made this video a while back. Let me know if this is what you're looking for. I also have a rappelling and knots playlist with a bunch of content. th-cam.com/video/CkL1ZV2zoQI/w-d-xo.html
You certainly can, although it may not be necessary. I base my decisions on some simple math from weight ratings. Redundancy is often safer if it doesn't get in the way, but too much makes an anchor unwieldy and you can never have redundant harnesses, rappel devices, etc. I address the topic in this video: th-cam.com/video/84c3m_DP5Rs/w-d-xo.html
Heard of two climbers tying into a strap around a tree that was sitting out in the elements. I'm not a climber but would know better then what was left out. They both died after the strap broke and fell.
Yes. That is certainly always a risk. I've trusted some hardware that was left, but metal doesn't degrade like synthetics in the sun and elements. I don't trust any webbing or rope that was left out in a life safety manner. I don't buy any used climbing gear that's soft, and am extremely picky about hardware as well. Knowing the history, care, and condition by paying for new, knowing the source, or sometimes leaving gear (like the two you referenced could have done) is certainly the preference over risking life and limb.
There's a couple reasons. This method of anchoring requires that that one large, continuous loop be created around both anchors and webbing pulled from between the two until the two strands are equal. If the webbing was looped around it would be difficult to pull and would bind up instead of equalizing. Second, there's no real benefit to wrapping as it wouldn't increase the strength.
@@AdventuresInReach I think I was working with a wrap 3 pull 2, so it just seemed a little confusing to me. I think I get it though. One gives you still have the other one backing it up. Thanks
It seems to me that you would only have 4,000lbs of strength per anchor, not 8,000 as stated in the video. Each tree only has one loop actually going around it.
I originally thought the same thing and argued this on a course with two different nationally renowned instructors who teach this full time. There was a complicated engineers-type explanation that I would need to review my notes to communicate clearly. It is the standard teaching that it would be double strength in the scenario described.
@@AdventuresInReach The guy who gave a little girl an UZI to fire, and ended up with his head blown up when the girl couldn't resist the recoil, .....also was an "Instructor". NOW, what the guy above said it's true, and those "Renowed instructors" don't know 💩, if they tell you that a loop of web/rope double it's strength when going arround an anchor point.....THE FACT THAT YOU ATTACHED TO TWO TREES, prooved it. (Each "bend" on each side of the tree reduces the strength of the web/rope, BECAUSE the outer side of the webbing gets more tension the the inner side of the material).
You need redundancy for extra safety. Redundancy means something additional, now you may not need it but it's good to have it. In the world of mountaineering, you want to layer your safety in case one fails there's another one that takes over. Hope my answer helps.
I'm not a climber HOWEVER, I would recommend having some length of fabric made into a short "tube or sleeve" to put the rope or webbing trough, and protect them from friccion damage against whatever surface they press against (trees, rocks etc). It would be a Pitty to ruin some good webbing when a cheap piece of cloth can protect it... specially becaisie the anchor web/ rope are in fixed positions.
You are certainly on the right path and for someone who isn't a climber, you certainly are aware of some considerations. I made this video about "edge protection" to help do exactly what you're describing. th-cam.com/video/xKYNcDUJXHA/w-d-xo.html
Would it matter if I tie the rappel rope directly onto the loop of the anchor (not using carabiner)? I think the force rating will hold, but is there any pros and cons for this matter?
The other comments about soft on soft is spot on. The only exception to that is if you tie the two soft lines together. Tying rope to webbing is not the norm. You could use rated cordage to construct the demonstrated anchor and tie the rappel rope into that. However, the standard/best practice is to connect with a carabiner.
Very nice set-up, but you forgot a "safety first" element in your rapelling system... where is your 3rd. hand in case you lose control of your break hand while going down the cliff ???
I'm using a GriGri in this video. To operate it properly you must use two hands with one operating the lever attached to the cam, and one controlling the rope over the friction edge. If I were to let go, the cam could catch me. The one downside with the GriGri is that if I were to pull too hard with my left hand it would open up the cam. Adding a prussik would add a degree of complication and decrease the effectiveness of one of my hands. I could use a Petzl Asap in this scenario, although I don't have one and it may be overkill.
The overhand knot in the middle isolates the two loops so if one tree/anchor were to fail the system would swing some, but there would not be any extension as both isolated halves of the system are already weighted and there would not be any introduced slack to the system.
It really depends on the distance of your anchors. I have used this same method with 2 cams only a couple feet apart and only needed about 6 feet of webbing. I believe the piece I used in this video was 40 feet long. All of my webbing is the standard 1 inch sewn tubular webbing rated to 4,000 pounds for a single strand.
Good question. You don’t. He did not mention it in the video, but this set up is for recreational rapping or training. With this set you cannot retrieve the rope.
This video may help answer the rope retrieval question: th-cam.com/video/w9nJuQ2tF7w/w-d-xo.html Unfortunately, there isn't a great way to have a nice anchor and retrieve it from the bottom.
I have a bunch of anchor, knot, and rappelling videos that might help. I would certainly identify anchors ahead of time. I'm imagining this may be for an emergency. If you are thinking about this for a fire then you would ideally also have heat resistant rope and anchors. I would suggest looking into rope escape systems that firefighters use.
The window framing behind the wall should be sturdy, a large 4x4 beam of wood or metal pole can be placed on the sill inside if it reaches past to both walls and you can tie your rope there. Be advised minor damage may be left and it may or may not be legal. Also the strength of the building and anchor material need to be assessed before you trust your life to it.
My favorite anchor system for top roping. Good for lead belayer too, nice and quick to setup. “Cordalette” with cord, “webalette” with webbing.
Hey! Absolutely. I've used it in that application also. For rescue we use it to condense two points to one before adding our to the overall system.
My understanding is that a cordelette is a loop of rope/cord. Webolette is a Mountain Tools trademarked length of webbing with eyes at each end. Similar uses, slightly different end attachments.
This is a great video. A friend and I are just starting to look into rappelling and this was very helpful. What length and thickness of webbing were you using here (or would you recommend)?
That yellow piece is 40 feet. All my webbing is 1" sewn tubular. Any climbing store should carry it in multiple colors. I recommend having different lengths in different colors. Have fun rappelling! It's a fun time.
@@AdventuresInReach Thank you for that information. The tip for different lengths in different colours is great too.
I'm just getting started with this stuff thanks!
You're welcome. It's a fun sport to learn. Feel free to let me know if you have any questions. If you haven't already, you might get a lot from this playlist: Beginner Rappelling and Knots: th-cam.com/play/PLNcpRGw7T0bj3IMJQG8WDyUBquw4Xe4YP.html
Quick, simple anchor. Thanks for that
You bet. I hope you get to use it. Happy rappelling and climbing.
Just subscribed so don't know if you have done this, but am having trouble with terms and what they refer to. Could you do a episode on that?
Thank you for the sub! I made this video a while back. Let me know if this is what you're looking for. I also have a rappelling and knots playlist with a bunch of content. th-cam.com/video/CkL1ZV2zoQI/w-d-xo.html
For redundancy, can one use two locking carabiners to connect to the anchor/rappel?
You certainly can, although it may not be necessary. I base my decisions on some simple math from weight ratings. Redundancy is often safer if it doesn't get in the way, but too much makes an anchor unwieldy and you can never have redundant harnesses, rappel devices, etc. I address the topic in this video: th-cam.com/video/84c3m_DP5Rs/w-d-xo.html
Heard of two climbers tying into a strap around a tree that was sitting out in the elements. I'm not a climber but would know better then what was left out. They both died after the strap broke and fell.
Yes. That is certainly always a risk. I've trusted some hardware that was left, but metal doesn't degrade like synthetics in the sun and elements. I don't trust any webbing or rope that was left out in a life safety manner. I don't buy any used climbing gear that's soft, and am extremely picky about hardware as well. Knowing the history, care, and condition by paying for new, knowing the source, or sometimes leaving gear (like the two you referenced could have done) is certainly the preference over risking life and limb.
Why do you only wrap your anchor around the tree once?
There's a couple reasons. This method of anchoring requires that that one large, continuous loop be created around both anchors and webbing pulled from between the two until the two strands are equal. If the webbing was looped around it would be difficult to pull and would bind up instead of equalizing. Second, there's no real benefit to wrapping as it wouldn't increase the strength.
@@AdventuresInReach I think I was working with a wrap 3 pull 2, so it just seemed a little confusing to me. I think I get it though. One gives you still have the other one backing it up. Thanks
Why would I want my anchor to be redundant? Does redundant mean something else now?
It seems to me that you would only have 4,000lbs of strength per anchor, not 8,000 as stated in the video. Each tree only has one loop actually going around it.
I originally thought the same thing and argued this on a course with two different nationally renowned instructors who teach this full time. There was a complicated engineers-type explanation that I would need to review my notes to communicate clearly. It is the standard teaching that it would be double strength in the scenario described.
@@AdventuresInReach The guy who gave a little girl an UZI to fire, and ended up with his head blown up when the girl couldn't resist the recoil, .....also was an "Instructor".
NOW, what the guy above said it's true, and those "Renowed instructors" don't know 💩, if they tell you that a loop of web/rope double it's strength when going arround an anchor point.....THE FACT THAT YOU ATTACHED TO TWO TREES, prooved it.
(Each "bend" on each side of the tree reduces the strength of the web/rope, BECAUSE the outer side of the webbing gets more tension the the inner side of the material).
What I mean is, is the term redundant some kind of rappelling terminology? Because I thought the word meant useless and not required. (I'm a layman)
You need redundancy for extra safety. Redundancy means something additional, now you may not need it but it's good to have it. In the world of mountaineering, you want to layer your safety in case one fails there's another one that takes over. Hope my answer helps.
I'm not a climber HOWEVER, I would recommend having some length of fabric made into a short "tube or sleeve" to put the rope or webbing trough, and protect them from friccion damage against whatever surface they press against (trees, rocks etc).
It would be a Pitty to ruin some good webbing when a cheap piece of cloth can protect it... specially becaisie the anchor web/ rope are in fixed positions.
You are certainly on the right path and for someone who isn't a climber, you certainly are aware of some considerations. I made this video about "edge protection" to help do exactly what you're describing. th-cam.com/video/xKYNcDUJXHA/w-d-xo.html
Ummm, aren’t knots in a line a 50% reduction of break strength?
They can be. The type of knot, whether it's dressed and set, it's placement in the system, etc. all have an effect on that.
Would it matter if I tie the rappel rope directly onto the loop of the anchor (not using carabiner)? I think the force rating will hold, but is there any pros and cons for this matter?
Remember soft on soft is very bad
It'll cause the webbing and rope to saw into each other
The other comments about soft on soft is spot on. The only exception to that is if you tie the two soft lines together. Tying rope to webbing is not the norm. You could use rated cordage to construct the demonstrated anchor and tie the rappel rope into that. However, the standard/best practice is to connect with a carabiner.
Nice & simple. KISS (Keep It Simple, I'm Stupid).
Ha! That's a new version of KISS! The more simple and quick, the more time spent climbing or rappelling.
Very nice set-up, but you forgot a "safety first" element in your rapelling system... where is your 3rd. hand in case you lose control of your break hand while going down the cliff ???
I'm using a GriGri in this video. To operate it properly you must use two hands with one operating the lever attached to the cam, and one controlling the rope over the friction edge. If I were to let go, the cam could catch me. The one downside with the GriGri is that if I were to pull too hard with my left hand it would open up the cam. Adding a prussik would add a degree of complication and decrease the effectiveness of one of my hands. I could use a Petzl Asap in this scenario, although I don't have one and it may be overkill.
Thanks for your awesome video, your energy and enthusiasm are contagious !!!
Would there be any extension upon failure of one tree anchor?
The overhand knot in the middle isolates the two loops so if one tree/anchor were to fail the system would swing some, but there would not be any extension as both isolated halves of the system are already weighted and there would not be any introduced slack to the system.
How many feet and what size webbing do you use?
It really depends on the distance of your anchors. I have used this same method with 2 cams only a couple feet apart and only needed about 6 feet of webbing. I believe the piece I used in this video was 40 feet long. All of my webbing is the standard 1 inch sewn tubular webbing rated to 4,000 pounds for a single strand.
Great anchor but how do you get your rope down behind you if you have tied a figure eight at the top?
Good question. You don’t. He did not mention it in the video, but this set up is for recreational rapping or training. With this set you cannot retrieve the rope.
This video may help answer the rope retrieval question: th-cam.com/video/w9nJuQ2tF7w/w-d-xo.html Unfortunately, there isn't a great way to have a nice anchor and retrieve it from the bottom.
what if you want to go out a window of a house
I have a bunch of anchor, knot, and rappelling videos that might help. I would certainly identify anchors ahead of time. I'm imagining this may be for an emergency. If you are thinking about this for a fire then you would ideally also have heat resistant rope and anchors. I would suggest looking into rope escape systems that firefighters use.
The window framing behind the wall should be sturdy, a large 4x4 beam of wood or metal pole can be placed on the sill inside if it reaches past to both walls and you can tie your rope there. Be advised minor damage may be left and it may or may not be legal. Also the strength of the building and anchor material need to be assessed before you trust your life to it.
Nice system bro
Thank you.
Smooth sailing. Thanks for the motivation.
Thanks for watching!