LEARN THIS. Missing a rap station is very easy and ascending back up isn’t easy if you haven’t practiced it. This is very clean and well presented - if you are hanging in space however, you may need to put the foot loop on first to step up to clip your guide mode biner your belay loop.
in this case, do you need a second autoblock for your foot loop? since imo you shouldnt let go of the break strand if your atc isnt in guide mode yet, which you have to do though, to pull yourself up and clip the atc to your belay loop. this means up until youre clipped to the atc guide "ring", the autoblock below your atc should stay there. or am i making this unnecessarily complicated?
@@goodchildm.a.a.durbanarea4739 you can’t reach the guideloop with the autoblock still on, at least in my experience. You need to be able to pull up slack, which the autoblock prevents because it bites in both directions. In order to transition systems you need to remove the bottom autoblock, which is why you absolutely need to ensure the top one is secure, but yes you need two. If you’re at the ends of your ropes you can tie them together as an added safety, though I can speak from experience that a barrel knot on each end will also stop you (not something I ever wanted to test, but…it does work).
I'm thinking at a way to do this with only one friction knot. What if you make a knot on the rope, below yourself, then remove the prusik and descend until you stop on the knot. And then you can reuse the prusik above the atc.
@@alek-by7rm knots below yourself are definitely a good idea…however the rest of your plan won’t work as you need to unweight the ATC to get the prussik off, and it will be trapped between the knots and your ATC. I’ve seen videos of people using shoelaces to make an emergency prussik, slings work great too. I like to use cord for my chalk bag so that I always have a ohshit backup for this exact scenario…but you need to make something ABOVE your ATC to unweight it and switch into guide mode.
I would put in a back up knot as my step 1, before reconfiguring my atc and removing the third hand. Looks fine as is in a controlled and practiced environment but this sort of thing normally happens at the end of a long day, in low light, or bad weather. He does mention this as an option in the commentary, but after reconfiguring the atc.
For a back knot do you have to attach it to your harness? Or could it just be something like an overhand on bite or an Alpine butterfly just hanging on the rope?
@@mateoc.4791 the back up knot in the brake strands of rope are incase the locking function of the ATC in guide mode doesn't work/fails during the time you have no prusic. The back-up knot doesn't need to be attached you, it's purpose is to stop you sliding off the rope by jamming up the belay device in the event of a system failure. Note, the knot needs to be big enough that it can't pass through the belay device when fully weighted.
@@aviduke yeah I figured it doesn’t need to attach to you. I just noticed he did that. What do most people do for a back up? Heard of Alpine butterflies which is why I mentioned it
2 things. 1. Very nifty use for a guide plate! I've never seen it used in that manner before and am definitely gonna test it out! 2. And second, I have those same approach shoes, they're awesome!
I was in a situation just last week where this technique would have been extremely useful. Thank you for making this video! Very clear and concise, and I can effectively say I know the technique well enough to use it next time. Cheers!
Very good video. I have used this technique (practice not for real) but the only thing I have done differently is to use a klemheist above the device, girth hitch the 120cm foot loop sling then the carabiner is used solely as a redirect for the brake strands. This means you're pulling down to go up which feels right to me. The klemheist is preferable to me, just because you don't want to accidentally move it while flipping the device to guide/self blocking mode, but is more of a faff to use in practice. A classic prusik is also very good for this. The redirect basically makes it like an unassisted haul, but in guide mode, upside down. Used free hanging to ascend to a tree bough worked great. It looks like you've practiced that a lot, very slick and effortless 👌👏 I wish more people would take time to learn to rescue themselves and others, would save a lot of mountain rescue callouts.
It is much more difficult in a direct rappel without a wall to put the foots on, but it is Good and clear explanation about the technique with ATC / hugs 🙋
Thanks so much for your support @verticalfeel! If you are free-hanging in space you can use the foot-loop to step-up and flip the device into guide mode, and can then ascend the rope using the foot-loop to progress upward. But you are right- it is a bit more difficult without a wall to stabilize yourself on. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
Thanks for the question @marcobichaud946! If you are on a free-hanging rappel and unable to stand-up on terrain, then the first step is to create a friction hitch using any piece of material you have with you that will work (read through to the very end to see what to do if you have no material that will work for this). This could be a prusik loop, cordalete, or runner/sling made from any material (nylon, dyneema, etc) and of any length (20cm, 30cm, 60cm, 120cm, 180cm, or 240cm etc). In a real pinch you could even use your shoe laces, since these are almost always strong enough to support body-weight (which is all you need). You can create an autoblock hitch, prusik hitch, or kleimheist hitch with any of these items. Below I'll describe how to escape using a prusik hitch: Using any length of material, create a prusik hitch on the loaded rappel strands above your belay device. If you are creating the prusik using material longer than 120cm, I find it easiest to leave most of the cord/sling coiled-up in your hand so you can pass the coil through the loops you are creating on the load strand to form the prusik, rather than pulling the entire unbundled cord through, but either will work. Once the prusik is attached above your device, you will need to determine if the remaining material hanging down from the hitch is long enough to reach your knee. If it is, then you can tie an overhand knot where the dangling extra material reaches your knee, which will work as a foot loop for you to stand-up in. If the material is not long enough, then you will need to clip an extra sling (one 120cm or two 60cm slings work well) into the prusik hitch so you have enough material to reach your knee that can be used for a foot loop. Now stand-up in the foot loop, which will unweight your device and allow you to clip the ear of the device into your belay loop, thus flipping the device into autoblock mode. Continue to use the foot-loop to progress up the rope, and pull on the brake strands coming out from your device so it works as a progress capture. Place back-up knots as needed. Here's a hot tip: If you don't have ANY material that you can use for the friction hitch above your device, then grab the unweighted rappel strands below your friction-hitch back-up (your third hand). Wrap these two strands around one of your legs two to three times. Now make an overhand-on-a-bite in both rappel strands below the leg wrap and clip this into your belay loop with a locking carabiner (this is a back-up/catastrophe knot). Now take-off your third-hand (the brake strands are being held secure by the leg wrap) and place the third-hand above your belay device (as an autoblock, prusik, or kleimheist). Clip a sling into this as a foot-loop, and using your leg that is free of leg wraps step into the sling and unweight your device so you can flip it into autoblock mode to ascend. I hope this info is helpful!
Is there any good way to add some mechanical advantage to the foot loop portion of the system? Was bouncing around in a tree all afternoon yesterday and couldn't figure out a good way hehe.. (I know you can do it on the brake strand for a 3:! for your hand, but would be nice to get one on the foot loop instead).
Is this video relating to the recent rappelling death in Zion? You might not be able to use your technique in steep terrain. My takeaway from that incident is have 2 prusiks and know how to use them.
@@skillsforclimbing really cool tip there 👆 so the loop you tie should be *4ft/120cm* to replicate the sling you'd ideally have on your harness. (description reads 2ft/120cm) On abseil/rappel could you tie a big loop as your stopper, standing up in that to flip the device then reshuffle the prusik and foot loop?
Yeah, catastrophe knots can also work well. Just check to make sure that the terrain you are ascending is unlikely to snag the knots if you intend to ascend to a higher position without rappelling through the catastrophe knots again (such as ascending up to a rappel station you missed on the way down). Thanks for the question and for watching!
So when you place a carbiner thru the eye of the ATC guide and put it on your belay look it automatically locks the rappel system? Just like a megajul?
The foot loop will work for that no-problem. I find that if the terrain is featured or low-angle it is often easier to transition into ascent or descent without using the foot loop. If the terrain does not require it I generally do not step in the loop to ascend either (I will put my feet on features on the wall and "climb" while I take slack in through the device). Personal preference on this, but most guides I work with will do the same if the foot loop is not required.
The diameter of your rope, your technique, the model of device, and how broken in your device is will all play a role. I recommend a well broken-in ATC guide (all other devices I have tried- and I have tried most- have more friction). Pull the brake strands in-line with the load strand so they are just about touching. The thinner your rope is, the easier the pulling will me. I have used this technique to ascend an 11mm static rope, and it works, but it is hard.
Yeah, a redirect to create a 3:1 works as well. I will occasionally use a 3:1 self-hoist for very short distances in specific terrain- such as pulling the overhanging lip of a crevasse in a self-rescue scenario. The big disadvantage is it is very slow and wears you out quick, since you have to pull through 3x as much rope to ascend, and you use your arms instead of your legs for upward progression. Still always good to have multiple tools! Thanks for watching and for your comment!
LEARN THIS. Missing a rap station is very easy and ascending back up isn’t easy if you haven’t practiced it. This is very clean and well presented - if you are hanging in space however, you may need to put the foot loop on first to step up to clip your guide mode biner your belay loop.
in this case, do you need a second autoblock for your foot loop?
since imo you shouldnt let go of the break strand if your atc isnt in guide mode yet, which you have to do though, to pull yourself up and clip the atc to your belay loop. this means up until youre clipped to the atc guide "ring", the autoblock below your atc should stay there.
or am i making this unnecessarily complicated?
@@goodchildm.a.a.durbanarea4739 you can’t reach the guideloop with the autoblock still on, at least in my experience. You need to be able to pull up slack, which the autoblock prevents because it bites in both directions. In order to transition systems you need to remove the bottom autoblock, which is why you absolutely need to ensure the top one is secure, but yes you need two. If you’re at the ends of your ropes you can tie them together as an added safety, though I can speak from experience that a barrel knot on each end will also stop you (not something I ever wanted to test, but…it does work).
I'm thinking at a way to do this with only one friction knot. What if you make a knot on the rope, below yourself, then remove the prusik and descend until you stop on the knot. And then you can reuse the prusik above the atc.
@@alek-by7rm knots below yourself are definitely a good idea…however the rest of your plan won’t work as you need to unweight the ATC to get the prussik off, and it will be trapped between the knots and your ATC. I’ve seen videos of people using shoelaces to make an emergency prussik, slings work great too. I like to use cord for my chalk bag so that I always have a ohshit backup for this exact scenario…but you need to make something ABOVE your ATC to unweight it and switch into guide mode.
yeah, I think you are right. I will test more options, I want to find a way in case I have only one prussik at me.
Very nicely demonstrated. Clear and concise. I like the dubbed narration, too. I find it easier to see/hear what's going on.
I would put in a back up knot as my step 1, before reconfiguring my atc and removing the third hand. Looks fine as is in a controlled and practiced environment but this sort of thing normally happens at the end of a long day, in low light, or bad weather. He does mention this as an option in the commentary, but after reconfiguring the atc.
I agree. A backup knot saves lives.
For a back knot do you have to attach it to your harness? Or could it just be something like an overhand on bite or an Alpine butterfly just hanging on the rope?
@@mateoc.4791 the back up knot in the brake strands of rope are incase the locking function of the ATC in guide mode doesn't work/fails during the time you have no prusic.
The back-up knot doesn't need to be attached you, it's purpose is to stop you sliding off the rope by jamming up the belay device in the event of a system failure.
Note, the knot needs to be big enough that it can't pass through the belay device when fully weighted.
@@aviduke yeah I figured it doesn’t need to attach to you. I just noticed he did that. What do most people do for a back up? Heard of Alpine butterflies which is why I mentioned it
I never knew atc guide could be used like this. Great information
@aviduke thanks for the positive comments!
Very nice explanation. I also like the voice-over soundtrack, the good audio helps to understand it better.
Quality explanation, with clear motions. 19/10 how am i not paying thousands of $$$$'s for this?!?!?!?!?
Excellent! Most concise demo of this I have seen on youtube. Thanks for posting!
Thanks so much for the positive feedback!
Nice work, I had not considered using my atc guide like this
This is so much cleaner than the other top one on TH-cam.
2 things.
1. Very nifty use for a guide plate! I've never seen it used in that manner before and am definitely gonna test it out!
2. And second, I have those same approach shoes, they're awesome!
Great work, I appreciate the minimal gear.
Much appreciated!
Your videos are brilliant, so clear. Easy to pick up and learn from. The people want more! 👍🏼
Thanks so much!
Smooth and simple. Thank you.
Amazing. I was looking for ultralight device, all in one, and this is it. Lightest universal setup for everything.
Glad I could help!
Great video. I didn’t recognize the mountaineers wall until half way in. See you at Index sometime.
Thanks for your tips. Your video taught me that I already had what I needed - simple and light.
I was in a situation just last week where this technique would have been extremely useful. Thank you for making this video! Very clear and concise, and I can effectively say I know the technique well enough to use it next time. Cheers!
Glad it helped!
Nice & clear demonstration.
Glad it was helpful!
Very good video. I have used this technique (practice not for real) but the only thing I have done differently is to use a klemheist above the device, girth hitch the 120cm foot loop sling then the carabiner is used solely as a redirect for the brake strands. This means you're pulling down to go up which feels right to me. The klemheist is preferable to me, just because you don't want to accidentally move it while flipping the device to guide/self blocking mode, but is more of a faff to use in practice. A classic prusik is also very good for this. The redirect basically makes it like an unassisted haul, but in guide mode, upside down. Used free hanging to ascend to a tree bough worked great.
It looks like you've practiced that a lot, very slick and effortless 👌👏 I wish more people would take time to learn to rescue themselves and others, would save a lot of mountain rescue callouts.
@@skillsforclimbing With two strands of rope, how can you use traction device like mircotraction? Thanks for the nice video, btw.
Very good demonstration, going on the wall to practice this
Thanks for your positive feedback @ASPAseethrough! Hope the practice session went well.
Excellent video presentation
Thanks for the positive feedback @Vince-ml9gw!
Useful and clearly explained, thank you
Thanks for the positive feedback!
Learning a lot from these videos. Appreciate the work!
Great vid! What's the knot you're using in the middle of your tether? It's not an alpine butterfly...is it a flying bowline?
Forget it! Just realized you told us at the beginning what it was. Thanks!
Just an overhand on a bite!
Great presentation. I've see some pretty poor ones but this one is really good. Thank you.
Much appreciated. Thanks for watching!
Great video - clear instruction.
Thanks much @lukew8542!
Great demonstration, thank you.
Happy it was helpful!
Very well presented. Thank you so much!
Love your vids bud, very clear. Thanks
Glad to help!
It is much more difficult in a direct rappel without a wall to put the foots on, but it is Good and clear explanation about the technique with ATC / hugs 🙋
Thanks so much for your support @verticalfeel! If you are free-hanging in space you can use the foot-loop to step-up and flip the device into guide mode, and can then ascend the rope using the foot-loop to progress upward. But you are right- it is a bit more difficult without a wall to stabilize yourself on. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
The only video made for amateur rappeller witbout rappelling station
Very nice. If you're dangling in the air and unable to touch the wall with your feet how would you clip into the eye of the ATC? Thanks
Thanks for the question @marcobichaud946! If you are on a free-hanging rappel and unable to stand-up on terrain, then the first step is to create a friction hitch using any piece of material you have with you that will work (read through to the very end to see what to do if you have no material that will work for this). This could be a prusik loop, cordalete, or runner/sling made from any material (nylon, dyneema, etc) and of any length (20cm, 30cm, 60cm, 120cm, 180cm, or 240cm etc). In a real pinch you could even use your shoe laces, since these are almost always strong enough to support body-weight (which is all you need). You can create an autoblock hitch, prusik hitch, or kleimheist hitch with any of these items. Below I'll describe how to escape using a prusik hitch:
Using any length of material, create a prusik hitch on the loaded rappel strands above your belay device. If you are creating the prusik using material longer than 120cm, I find it easiest to leave most of the cord/sling coiled-up in your hand so you can pass the coil through the loops you are creating on the load strand to form the prusik, rather than pulling the entire unbundled cord through, but either will work.
Once the prusik is attached above your device, you will need to determine if the remaining material hanging down from the hitch is long enough to reach your knee. If it is, then you can tie an overhand knot where the dangling extra material reaches your knee, which will work as a foot loop for you to stand-up in. If the material is not long enough, then you will need to clip an extra sling (one 120cm or two 60cm slings work well) into the prusik hitch so you have enough material to reach your knee that can be used for a foot loop.
Now stand-up in the foot loop, which will unweight your device and allow you to clip the ear of the device into your belay loop, thus flipping the device into autoblock mode. Continue to use the foot-loop to progress up the rope, and pull on the brake strands coming out from your device so it works as a progress capture. Place back-up knots as needed.
Here's a hot tip: If you don't have ANY material that you can use for the friction hitch above your device, then grab the unweighted rappel strands below your friction-hitch back-up (your third hand). Wrap these two strands around one of your legs two to three times. Now make an overhand-on-a-bite in both rappel strands below the leg wrap and clip this into your belay loop with a locking carabiner (this is a back-up/catastrophe knot). Now take-off your third-hand (the brake strands are being held secure by the leg wrap) and place the third-hand above your belay device (as an autoblock, prusik, or kleimheist). Clip a sling into this as a foot-loop, and using your leg that is free of leg wraps step into the sling and unweight your device so you can flip it into autoblock mode to ascend.
I hope this info is helpful!
Is there any good way to add some mechanical advantage to the foot loop portion of the system? Was bouncing around in a tree all afternoon yesterday and couldn't figure out a good way hehe.. (I know you can do it on the brake strand for a 3:! for your hand, but would be nice to get one on the foot loop instead).
Thanks
Is this video relating to the recent rappelling death in Zion? You might not be able to use your technique in steep terrain. My takeaway from that incident is have 2 prusiks and know how to use them.
@@skillsforclimbing really cool tip there 👆 so the loop you tie should be *4ft/120cm* to replicate the sling you'd ideally have on your harness. (description reads 2ft/120cm)
On abseil/rappel could you tie a big loop as your stopper, standing up in that to flip the device then reshuffle the prusik and foot loop?
Just want to point out, you can always just tie a prusik with the nylon sling itself as opposed to using the hollow block.
Instead of using the overhand bite tied to the biner of your belay loop, could you also just tie catastrophe knots as you ascend?
Yeah, catastrophe knots can also work well. Just check to make sure that the terrain you are ascending is unlikely to snag the knots if you intend to ascend to a higher position without rappelling through the catastrophe knots again (such as ascending up to a rappel station you missed on the way down). Thanks for the question and for watching!
This is a great tip, thanks!
Great video! Thanx!
My pleasure!
So when you place a carbiner thru the eye of the ATC guide and put it on your belay look it automatically locks the rappel system? Just like a megajul?
Yep. All guide-style belay devices are designed to work this way.
You wouldnt be able to release the Guide Mode in you were free hanging. Why didnt you use the foot Loop for that?
The foot loop will work for that no-problem. I find that if the terrain is featured or low-angle it is often easier to transition into ascent or descent without using the foot loop. If the terrain does not require it I generally do not step in the loop to ascend either (I will put my feet on features on the wall and "climb" while I take slack in through the device). Personal preference on this, but most guides I work with will do the same if the foot loop is not required.
Thanks for the video. What cord are you using to extend the atc? What length, mm, etc and is it tied with double fisherman? Thanks!
pretty sure it's the Edelrid aramid sling. blue is a 120cm.
nice vid. does this also work out if you unintentionally rapped under an overhang. so you have no connection to the terrain anymore?
In that case, add your footloop first (you'll need a second prussik), and stand up in it
howbout if you're not on a reverso?
Can this be done with Figure 8 descender ?
Nope. You need a guide-style plaquette device for this one.
Great video, thank you
Thanks for your support!
i tried this today. couldn’t pull the rope through my atc. i think 10 mm is too thick 🤷🏽♂️
practiced this with 10.2mm rope and also found it to be very hard to pull both strands thru the atc.
The diameter of your rope, your technique, the model of device, and how broken in your device is will all play a role. I recommend a well broken-in ATC guide (all other devices I have tried- and I have tried most- have more friction). Pull the brake strands in-line with the load strand so they are just about touching. The thinner your rope is, the easier the pulling will me. I have used this technique to ascend an 11mm static rope, and it works, but it is hard.
beautiful
Thank you! 😊
no audio? or I'm old and deaf
both - got it now
Pretty cool
very cool
if you are in the middle of the rope, you should always tie a catastrophe knot
Auto block with a pulley. Run the tail of the rope through the pulley and pull down to ascend
Yeah, a redirect to create a 3:1 works as well. I will occasionally use a 3:1 self-hoist for very short distances in specific terrain- such as pulling the overhanging lip of a crevasse in a self-rescue scenario. The big disadvantage is it is very slow and wears you out quick, since you have to pull through 3x as much rope to ascend, and you use your arms instead of your legs for upward progression. Still always good to have multiple tools! Thanks for watching and for your comment!
buy a micro !!!!-_-
Nice