Why we use Rappel Extensions // DAVE SEARLE
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ค. 2024
- In this video I talk about why we use rappel extensions, a brief history of rappelling and also a few different tricks and tips on how to set up rappels using an extension.
Check out my other how to videos for example this one on how to tie off alpine coils. • Taking Coils for Alpin...
Interested in learning more or hiring me a guide? Check out my website: www.davesearleguiding.com/
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Some of the Gear I use:
Petzl I beam style Carabiner: amzn.to/3BZ3njz
Petzl Connect Adjust: amzn.to/3WlUSXR
The Perfect carabiner for connect adjust: amzn.to/3VfeMCx
Petzl Reverso: amzn.to/3WWo33Z
Petzl crevasse rescue kit: (Tibloc Microtraxion etc) amzn.to/3jk3fVj
Petzl Irvis Hybrid crampons: amzn.to/3WE7bi9
Petzl Rad Line amzn.to/3v9mFPw
Petzl Gully ice axe (adze) amzn.to/3PLKINT
Petzl Gully Ice axe (hammer) amzn.to/3jj2gVj
Smith Sunglasses: amzn.to/3YIN3NF - กีฬา
This is a great video! Would love it if you could do a full “start to finish” video on crevasse rescue using the RAD kit. Cheers!
Yeah, what he said.
what they said.
Another benefit of the extension is the option to very easily switch to 'ascend mode' by connecting the extra eye of the rappel device to the belay loop with a karabiner.
Yes! That’s something I wanted to cover in a later video!
Excellent clear presentation. I usually clarify that the position an unconscious person hangs puts the prusik into contact with the device as you demonstrated with the roll.Many novices are unaware where the pivot point is or that a body suspended from a harness doesn't stay upright. I have seen a legloop with prusik attached come unbuckled while they were cleaning a new route. There was no BFK in use. Scary. The Fench Prusik jammed itself into the ATC !!!
클라이밍에 입문한 지 1년 정도된 저에게 너무나 도움되는 설명이었습니다! 장비들을 착용하거나 시스템을 구축하는 방법들을 배우기는 했지만 왜 그것이 필요하고 왜 그렇게 하게 되었는지를 이해할 수 없었는데 너무나 많은 팁들과 원리들을 배울 수 있어서 영상 설명 너무나 좋았습니다 감사합니다!
What a fantastically clear demonstration of how an unextended rappel can fail. Great video!
Glad you liked it!
Fantastic, thorough video. Would love to see that complete video on the dual connect! Also, would really enjoy watching the full process of changing from one rappel station to another on the adjust if that’s something your setup allows for. Thanks for this video!
I've fully transitioned to extensions 90% of the time now. The length is also really handy for flipping an ATC into and out of guide mode as well. Thanks as always for adding to the communities collective knowledge
Thanks levi!
Wow, that’s a great video Dave, your filming lighting audio and everything is just top-notch. keep up the good work!
Toward the end of the video, you mentioned that the prussik on top can be loaded to make for a more difficult, less smooth descent. One alternative is the VT prussik (invented by Rich Carlson, sold by Bluewater). Worth checking out! Breaks easily and the technora sheath makes it extremely heat / abrasion resistant.
I commend you for a very thorough video - I appreciate your approach : )
Yeah I’ve never really got into Vt prusiks myself. I’m sure for that they would be ace and I have heard that before.
Wow, master class in session - Thank you so much!
Really clear and well made video! Perfect for such important content, thanks!!
Thanks!
Been using the Dual Adjust for years, super neat. Nice video.
Great approach with historical progression, pros/cons with alternative options for each con and demonstrations for everything. Couldn't be better.
Fantastic video on rappel extension!! I often teach climbing skills in a volunteer role, and I’ll be sending this to my students in the future. Thank you for making this!
Great!
Such a well done video and very informative.
This is the first video of yours that I saw and I mist say I enjoyed it. Thank you some interesting knowledge. Look forward to watching more of your stuff
my favorite for all round instructing and teaching is the petzl connect vario. allows for threading through the tie in points, keeping the belay loop free and easier to use, and securing with an overhand while also being able to choose the length of both arms, I keep my abseil strand quite a bit shorter than on the normal dual adjust which I find a bit nicer in use, this also makes the connecting strand longer which is ideal when teaching allowing me to get out of the way from those i teach to let them do their thing. When out on my own I keep going back to just a basket hitched 60cm since i have a bunch of those on my draws anyways. and i find that ill use the rope on the belays anyways so the adjust is just extra weight and bulk on the approach.
Yeah I just profess I’ve not used the vario but maybe I should give it a go.
Great video , well explained
Thanks for these videos, some of the best on youtube for all this stuff. Have a few saved in a playlist for winter 2025
Great to hear!
Wow, this was fantastic and I learned a lot - thanks. Well done content and easy to follow. THANKS!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks Dave for the great content. Would love to see content on your thoughts/POV on belaying a second with a munter! keep up with the good work!
Yeah I’ll add that to my list of ideas!
I have learned to belay the second with a munter. It takes more effort and attention, but it's super fast and doesn't require changing the setup when switching to lead belaying (assuming alternating leads).
There's also a way to make an autoblocking munter by using an additional carabiner. It has more friction than an guide mode device, but you can switch to lead by simply removing the carabiner.
Great video Dave, thanks for uploading. Great to see you thriving out in the Alps.🙂
Glad you enjoyed it
Would love to see the discussion on options for repel extensions. I've been using a doubled up 120cm sling but I'm short and I often feel like I can't reach up high enough to properly test the setup before disconnecting my PAS.
I like to shorten the double sling with an overhand, and to shorten it more you could add a figure eight or even a nine.
Nice update! thanks your share
Been using a dedicated locking draw (dual locking biners on a dogbone) for this exact reason. Stays connected to my Reverso and I can just move the whole rig to a gear loop when not needed. I originally did this for additional braking control but didn’t even think about the rotational release issue. Thank you for that!
Yeah I use that sometimes also!
Can't wait for the video on the dual adjust connect. Been playing around with mine but don't feel that I have it dialed in yet. Thank you big time for the videos
On it!
really need that video about diferent ways of rappel extensions. thaks foy your video
Very complete video. Thank you. FWIW. A slight difference, we use a 120cm sling threaded 1/2 through the harness hard points and tie the 2 ends with a figure 8. This forms 2 loops. We liked this length and the redundancy (especially with a tied, rather than sewn, sling.) We tend to use the Sterling HollowBlock, but the 6mm cord is fine. Another ancillary advantage of the autoblock is the ability, during rappel setup, to hold the weight of a hanging (think double) rope while threading the device. In addition to making it easier to thread, this slack allows the device to be easily placed closer to the anchor, so one isn't faced with wrestling a weighted device closer to obtain a more comfortable start. The rappel extension also places more of the climbers weight below the device, offering a little better stability.
As a question from someone who is an arborist, caver, climber (trad/alpine) and cave rescue member how often do you practise mid rope rescue?
In our experience a bottom belay offers significantly more safety than an autoblock.
Use extensions and autoblocks with awareness that they significantly heighten the risk of having to perform a mid rope rescue either from above or below.
Great training video 😁
Great vid, love the content!
Glad you enjoy it!
Great teaching style! Note that Accidents in North American Climbing had highlighted that the third hand will NOT arrest a fall when a the ATC is loaded incorrectly capturing only one strand in a double strand rappel. But it can just be a caveat in your next video 😊. This video is otherwise so helpful-Keep up the good work!
New subscriber and what a great first video! Very clear explanations and easy to follow progression. If you have made it already I apologize but would love to see your opinions on the various ways to use a standard sling to extend rappel and act as a leash/tether combo.
This is great it’s nice to see how this system has developed over the years! If I could make a request I would love to see alpine specific repellent systems for efficient transition’s. Also yes please my parter is siting next to me and she would love to learn how to get her hair out of the belay device.
Awesome video, i thought i knew what i was doing but im still stuck with the 20 year old method!
It is perfectly fine for most rappels.
petzl simples and stops work very nicely for descending ropes. especially with a breaking crab.
Great video! I've found that when having a rappel extension it's more difficult to climb up again and take slack back at the same time. Maybe you could explain that in another video, because more than once i had to climb up and kind of bite the sling thats holding my atc so i can have the tension to recover the slack of the rope 😅
Yes keen for a deeper dive into extensions and ways to rap with a pack or injured partner
Another downside of a rappel extension is when a rappel station is low on the rock compared with where you can easily stand, since it makes it really awkward to weight your rappel setup. Cat In The Hat at Red Rocks outside Las Vegas has a rappel station like that.
What about forgoing the auto block by using an auto locking rappel device such as a mega jul in high friction orientation? Honestly, that's my favorite setup since it is so easy to setup and remove, which can help you move quicker... and sometimes you are rappelling quickly to mitigate a dangerous situation, so anything that speeds up the rappels can be very important in my opinion.
I’ve never had a worse time on a rappel than when I used a megajul in auto locking mode. So difficult to manage and bouncy. The alpine up seems like it works better but it also seems to bulky, heavy and complex to teach to a client.
Awesome video. Love your content. When is episode 2 of your rad line master class coming out?
Not sure but I think I’m going to press pause on that until next winter and focus on some key skills that build on that. Like this.
I use an Alpine Up. Nice controlled rappels that automatically brake and stop you when you take your hands off.
Yes looks like an interesting device, not used it but I've seen plenty of reviews on it. I would say it does seem very bulky, complicated and heavy though. I think that's the reason why guides and pro climbers are still so attached to the Reverso style tube devices and why it's probably going to take more to convince that group of users who often drive trends in climbing.
@@DaveSearle When I bought it, I thought I would only use it occasionally. It has now become my go-to for pretty much all of my climbing. The auto locking feature provides a bit of extra safety for the leader when I am belaying (got knocked unconscious once by falling ice,) and it performs really well in "guide mode," so much so that I no longer carry a plaquette. Not that complicated after you have used it a couple of times. My regular partners have all converted and we all use them now. I have tried some of the other auto locking devices on the market, but nothing else I have used performs nearly as well.
It is interesting watching trends in what guides use. I remember (many years ago,) my first trip to Chamonix, I was climbing in softshell pants. All the guides were in goretex. When I returned a few years later, pretty much every guide I saw was wearing softshells (and Super Mountain 9's.)
Amazing video! Where can one get the map seen in the background? Keep up the good work!
That black piece in the end of the connect adjust where you connect rapel extension comes with the product? I didn'see it in the photos on the product page 🙌🏻
I personally only used the version with the 120 cm sling. When i learned this stuff in the Swiss Military ~10 years ago, that was the way they thought it.
But have been wondering if there are significant benefits to using something like those "connect adjust" systems. As far as I know, they have some dynamic portion build in, but not sure how much that is gonna add when it comes to a worst case 2.4 m fall (fall factor 2, which i think shouldn't be a position one should be in from the get-go).
For me, the amount of days i actually use those things currently can be counted on one hand per year...
What's your go-to length presewn autoblock?
The other benefit of the rappel extension is more comfortable rappelling. Your hands can easily both reach the rope, versus being off down low and to the side.
Great point!
Are people replacing the autoblock with a VT? It just seems like such a superior hitch in so many ways. I use a VT above or below the device, depending on the rappel.
I encounter a lot of climbers using climbing-style rope handling and rappel rigging when I'm out canyoneering. I often wonder if some of the skills learned for canyons could transfer over to alpine rappels.
The legloop method is still quite common in germany. I still see it all over the place, so I wouldn't talk about it as if it's in the past ;).
Extended belays can have a bunch of issues as well. For example, if you have to pull yourself up or ascend from a bad position, it's nearly impossible, which can be a real safety issue in some situations.
Prusik above is a bad idea imho. I want the belay device to carry the load. The belay device is much less likely to fail and if it fails, then the prusik underneath has a chance of holding you. If the prusik is above, the belay device does nothing, and if the prusik fails, it'll continue to do nothing (unless it's got assisted breaking which may or may not engage) (of course in hands of situations, which one shouldn't be in anyway, but stuff can happen, like getting knocked out)
It's not In the past I know. Just trying to send it there. ;-)
Also it pretty easy to flip the device into ascent mode and belay yourself back up.
Let's assume that you somehow flip it into ascend mode (assuming the belay device you're using even has one...) while the system is fully loaded. You're still not going to have much of a good time actually ascending without the ability to properly unload and pull slack through. Of course, you could try tying knots into the rope to step into, but on a dynamic rope, that's... eh... marginal. (With the belay device at hip / stomach level one can grab the rope above the device to unload it easily)
I do encourage you to suspend yourself on an extended belay and try to ascend on it without extra gear or a wall (or just a terrible one).
(Let's assume you somehow repelled the wrong direction, you were supposed to go left at that ledge but went right or something, and are lowering yourself into a waterfall and the rock is wet, up is your only good choice)
P.s. I use the extended myself. Though I like to keep the extension very short. And I wouldn't banish it to the past. Just like the munter, it's good to be proficient in it. Gear can be dropped or broken, if a prusik and an hms is all you've got left, you can still repell safely with the gear loop method as long as you're aware of the problems.
@@voidedname I think assuming anyone would ever rappel without some way to climb back up then get lost and stuck in some sort of situation is fairly unrealistic at best. But there is a way to do it using the tail end of the rope as a make shift prussik and creating a footloop with that and clipping the loop of the ATC into the prussik loop hole. as for just pulling rope through an extended belay device with a friction hitch yes that pretty much impossible. In the situation you describe then it would be best to create a foot loop above everything and then flip the reverso in ascend mode. Rappeling with a device without that makes life harder for sure!
@DaveSearle you'd assume so, yes. But then again, most climbing fatalities are from rapelling off the end of the rope cause they didn't tie a knot into it even though it's near universally taught. Making assumptions kills. People get rescued of walls because they misjudged something all the time.
Tying a foot loop on a dynamic rope on top of all the stretch and extra length needed to get a rope based friction hitch to bind safely on itself... never tried that myself, but I have my reservations in believing that you can successfully unload the belay device. It also assumes extra gear.
How you propose to tie a footloop above the extended (or non extended) belay is a mystery to me. You're not going to use the rope under tension for it. Depending on the extension, you may not reach far above the belay device in the first place, rope stretch is still a thing (if using the end of the rope), so you won't gain much height out of it, especially with extension butting it right against the belay device (agter rope contraction due to unloading). Unless you're proposing extra gear to do this, at which point I can also just fairy dust an ascension device into the situation and just use that.
I am talking about exceptional situations. You shouldn't be in them in the first place, but people get into them for numerous reasons and not always due to poor planning or fault of their own. If parts of the wall go, taking some of your gear with it, a particular zesty bird or surprise bee making you drop something, sudden rainshower forcing you to bail and leave a bunch of gear behind, etc etc.
I see no reason why we should try to push this into the past. I also strongly encourage anyone who climbs multipitch to be very comfortable with the munter hitch for the same reason (both belay and double strand rapell). It's potentially life-saving if you run out of options and potentially fighting onsetting panic, which may not be the best time to try a technique for the first time or even reinventing it, cause it was never taught to you. (Most likely is lack of gear, ascension is an extreme example, you're much more likely to just run out of slings or carabiners)
DMM Pivot for the win.
I would add that climbers using an extension need to get it well dialed.
I have seen a party of four spend almost a half hour per rappel to get it done.
And in many retreat circumstances thirty minutes to rappel a pitch puts people in more danger than using the old traditional clip to your harness method.
The first climber can use an extension and then the following rapellers get a fireman belay to back them up; and with a fireman backup a semi conscious or even unconscious person can be lowered.
Whereas the extension requires significant rescue skills and equipment.
And I would also like to know how many climbers have died because they didn't have an extension set up?
I would add that an extension is often much better if you are wearing a puffy jacket and in my experience ( climbing since 1966) the prussik above is often better if you are rappeling with a heavy pack.
i have an "issue" that the autoblock knot lots of time touches and pressures a tiny bit the strands which have the reverso/gg setup. What are your thoughts on that?
Sorry I’m not sure what you mean?
Just wanna throw that in, as I have been recently using and switching to a rappel extension with a prusik as backup.
One problem I see is (with the situation in 9:45), that when the prusik and rappel tool is engaging, and you are loosening the self secure lanyard:
If you made an error in connecting the rappel tool, you may not notice it, as both the engaging prusik (which may hold the weight right now) as well as the rappel tool are in the belay loop in the Harness...
Does anyone have a good solution to this? (My solution was, to loosening the lanyard only, when the prusik is not engaged...)
Was just talking about this with a friend. I don't see a difference using a standard connect adjust versus another PAS system (beal jammy, slings, etc). Do you think the true value is in the dual variant? Is it for speed, ease of use, or something else? Its a big item to carry relative to alternatives.
This is something I’m going to talk about in my connect adjust video!
Why don't u use a prussic above the rappel device? I was shown to use a prussic above a figure 8 rappel device (this is our back up descender) in a rope rescue course.
Dave, where can we get that super short pur-anneau sling? And could you whisper in Petzl's ear to make a 240cm length one as well?
Yeah is called “cutaway for canyon club harness”. What do you need a 240cm sling for? I’ve not felt the need for one for years, just curious
@@DaveSearle Generally prefer over a cordalette. Easier to wrap back up. I got the 180cm pur'anneau and it's great, but isn't always quite long enough for some widely spaced anchors.
im so jealous of the ropes in the background lol.
My younger self is too!
If you rappel on an autoblocking device like the giga jul or the gri gri do you still use a rappel extension / prussik?
I have always used an autoblocking device when belaying others and when rapping and never really understood the point of the prussik in the first place.
With a gri gri no, with a gigajul I’m not sure how that one works exactly but if it’s anything like the mega jul then it sucks to rappel with in autoblock mode so then you have to put it backwards and use a rappel extension and prusik. In that mode it’s much harder to go back up the rope using the device so it’s not so easy to handle in general.
@@DaveSearle I rappel in the autoblock mode and I am not sure what the issue is. It does block, which is marginally more annoying than using a tube would be, but prussiks are the same way.
I have noticed that on longer/faster rappels that the device can heat up, but it doesn't both me at all.
@DaveSearle, I used and abandoned the Megajul and Microjul for the reason you noted: Totally dysfunctional for rappeling. Since 2019 I've been using the Gigajul for double-rope rappels, with ropes MINIMUM 8.5 mm, with NO friction hitch of any kind -- based on the same reason I feel safe rappeling with a Grigri with no backup.
The Gigajul works well: I often let go of both hands for rope management etc., and it always holds...except with the 8.5 mm Beal Opera, and there is less than 10 M of rope below me. (There is too little rope weight to engage the brake assist on the Gigajul, and I will descend very slowly if hands-free. Not an issue, with knots always in rope ends.)
In Chamonix in 1983 I bought a Shunt. I loved that device as a rappel backup, and I always used it ABOVE my rappel device. (Sure, I had to bounce a bit after the Shunt was under load, to start rappeling again.)
I started climbing in 1976. So far I have never used a rappel extension and doubt I ever will.
What's your opinion on rappelling on an auto-tuber like the Edelrid Giga Jul? As you wont slide down the rope even hands free, can it therefore replace the auto-block?
Keen to hear your opinion on that!
Most of those have a rappelling mode that requires an auto-block setup. For me the third hand is there for more than just holding you from sliding down the rope. It’s also for that backup when threading your device. I’ve yet to use a device like the gigajul (yes I have used the older version) that I got on with in autoblock mode for rappelling.
Also interested in downsides of using break assisted devices like the edelrid ones for rappelling. Been using my megajul for a couple of years and generally do not add a autobloc knot. It took a while to learn to rappel with it without looking like a bungee jumper, but after a while it goes smooth with most ropes. One thing I have learned from rather sketchy situations is to use a prussik backup on unknown skinny ropes. Standing on a ledge and load testing by leaning back and bouncing a bit does not guarantee that it will block once truly vertical!
I'd also like to see a video exploring this topic. I love using the megajul (more than the gigajul actually) for rappelling, and I often use it as a stand-alone device with no auto-block because I've yet to encounter a situation where it doesn't hold me hands-free, and as such it greatly reduces my transition time, especially on routes with multiple rappels. That said, I know I'm accepting a fair bit more risk by not using an auto-block. I've also used the alpine-up and I really enjoy that device for rappelling too, it's just not great in guide mode and it's quite bulky compared with the megajul.
A belay extension, third hand, and autoblock is pretty archaic in 2024 (yes, I did it for 15 years). A GigaJul, Megajul, Smart, or other devices are so much better and so much less faffing around (do multiple raps with a partner using the system shown in this video is painfully slow). I assume when Petzl finally makes a modern rap device, all guides are gonna start making videos how old fashion the system shown in this video is.
Wait, should I use two, three, or four wraps on my backup?? Is my hollow block worn through yet? Anyone got a pair of scissors to cut my hair from my extended device?? Pretty wack with no benefits over a modern device.
And, a third hand as a back up "to clipping only one rope through your rappel device" is really stretching to justify this out of date technique.
I love your videos but Petzl is really lagging, Reversos were cool 15-20 yrs ago, not today, and shit they wear soooooo fast.
@@doughutchinson1736 I guess I'm going to have to reluctantly buy another one of those AB devices to try and see if I like a different one. I tried the mega jul and absolutely hated it. I also don't see how you can rappel smoothly and quickly with a mega jul without putting it backwards and having a backup which sort of defeats the point? Also in that mode its difficult to pull slack through when setting up and it's much harder to go into ascent mode if you need to half way down the rap. I feel I'm faster and smoother at rappelling with a reverso and have both hands on the dead rope. I also think that I can set up my device and the devices of my clients much faster especially with gloves on and it's cleaner and easier to check that it's been done correctly.
May be educational, recently a channel filmed something getting caught. Misadventures Lab; Beards also
Another great benefit, when abseiling off less than vertical rock, is that the extension keeps water off your crotch.
I have the single Connect Adjust. And I don't want the double version, honestly. I don't want another thing that's hanging around on my harness and has to be stowed somewhere, especially if it isn't needed 99% of the time and can easily be replaced by a sling once I do need it.
Hi Dave, thank you for great video! One issue I have been encountering with extension is that rappelling isn’t smooth, the angle of the ATC and the rope seems to brake extensively and I have to lift the dead rope up to release it, so it’s a pretty bumpy ride. Ever encountered that problem? I use normal ATC device and Radline. Thank you!
Great, only thing to take care is it puts your ATC close to your face and therefore for people with long hair adds a risk to be aware of. Possible to add a Prussic above as well. Cheers
Didn’t quite finish the video before commenting?
@@DaveSearle yep sorry
Hands free, no auto lock just wrap a leg.
Rappel and belay devices gave become ridiculously complex. Simple is better.
I used a simple two hole belay plate for 20 years, and a simpler one hole micro belay plate.
If you use a prussack loop you apply it above the belay device. There you have full control over the prussack entirely independant of the belay device. You can belay, they add or remove the prissack at will. Or even prussack of fixed protection. And walk away.
I had a situation where belaying a 78year old climber. I had to walk away to obtain additional rope to allow the lead to climb through a band of poor rock during an adventure climb. I used a system of prussacks to systematically add tape, and 6mm string to gain an additional 20m of “rope” and use an old school mountaineering under the crotch/over the shoulder belay. The prussacks attached to my pack filled with rocks as “fixed protection” it weighed more than I did so was adequate as a counterweight belay.
The 78yr old British Mountaineer society member was very happy with my belay. But was pissed at her selection of route. Next it was my turn to lead. And I got the worst case of exposure on the outside of an arrette. But climbed through. So much fun to be had at Charleston, South Island, NZ.
The climbs atr Charleston aren't particularly long.
As someone with long hair I actually find that my hair is less likely to get caught with an extension. I believe this to be because the ends of my hair are further away from the device. Great video though
Interesting, I’ve heard mixed opinions on this actually! Maybe I need to grow my hair out and make my own decision
Oh, thanks, TH-cam and TH-camrs, before you we had no way of sharing and perpetuating knowledge...😒
3:00 i don't know why you have your prusik so near to the atc? I use only one carabiner with prusik, and so there's always at least 20cm between the prusik and atc.
As I said in the video, there is a big variation I harness leg loop sizes, hitch cord lengths and rope diameters that can affect this. I’m struggling to see how you can get it 20cm appart in that configuration when you are weighing the harness.
The autoblock on the leg loop does seem like a pretty neat trick to rappel hands free tho lol.
*abseil
It's abseiling and that could easily get stuff dragged into it, eg hair looks like bollox
This is dumb. Put a VT above the atc. The vt is your main system with the atc taking a smaller amount of force but also acting as a backup. There's no chance of any of the failures your mentioned in this video. Also switching to n setup is way faster. I don't see the point of ppl teaching inferior ways of rappelling. Why risk your life with imperfect systems.
Unfortunately no system is perfect that I’ve seen. How can the atc work as a backup if it’s not auto locking? Other benefits with this system are I can easily stack my clients onto the rope and for easy rappels they can forgo the autoblock and I can give them a fireman’s. As I mentioned in the video I don’t love the prusik or vt above (im aware that a vt is easier to release under load) because you only have one hand on the dead rope below the atc. The system I’m showing, which I know is also not perfect, is widely and extensively taught In recreational climbing around the world.