Replacement arrived!By the way, I did forget to mention that the original lure did have a decent strike however as most anglers will attest you can get a hit th-cam.com/users/postUgkxCbNOWAGmn6nfbCbJDmasvBq7J38KZNw2 and fish will hang on and release lure. I used the replacement lure yesterday and ran thru a Shimano Waxwing, Kastmaster, Bobber (set to sink). I found the does run deep (I casting on the flats 3.5'). Make sure you adjust your rate of retrieve and rod tip angle (up) to prevent getting snagged on bottom. Used it a couple of times and action was very lifelike (looked like local bait fish for trevally), craftsmanship very good....however eyeball fell out. I asked for replacement and it is on it's way! It was very easy to change out treble to single inline hook.
*I caught this guy on my 3rd cast. Paired with these 4" trailers. **enjoyable.fishing** recommend slightly modified, I think i trimmed about 3/4 of an inch off of it. Its deadly!*
Thanks for the positive feedback! Fish do see color differently to us and in fact some species of fish see color different to other species. It's all to do with minor differences in how theireyes work. For example, pelagic gamefish (eg sailfish) see blue in more shades and more vividly than freshwater species can, which are better adapted to see shades of reds, yellows and greens. I couldn't agree more about movement and contrast - far more important than color!
I've had other BPM baits th-cam.com/users/postUgkxCbNOWAGmn6nfbCbJDmasvBq7J38KZNw2 before and they've pretty much always came through for me with the suskie smallies here and even with the walleye and pike, but I realized I didn't have an "in-between" pattern so this junebug one fills that role in no problem. it pairs up magnificently with a junebug Zoom Z-craw Jr that was trimmed a couple millimeters before the hook slots and rigged sideways for that fatter panfish side profile while still being a nice'n'compact presentation, a real power-finesse bait. Hell, it was so pretty I even bothered to fotosketch the pic into a watercolor painting image just to show you it's beauty! Even the blades are really well made, sure, they're not of Hildebrandt-level exquisiteness but look at the bead's reflection on the colorado blade, definitely well-made! The only "problem" spot it had was a bald spot in the skirt but it was nothing that I couldn't easily fix with a but of tuggin'n'shiftin' with the strands for a couple of seconds, besides that it is pretty minty!
Thanks Robert. I'm a professional aquatic scientist and I can assure you that the light attentuation figures I've provided are correct. I did quite a lot of underwater light measurements during my doctoral studies 15 or so years ago, but I'll admit I haven't done much since. The massive loss at the surface is due to reflective and refractive effects as the light passes from air to water, whereas the loss you are referring to is the loss due to absorption once the light has passed (cont)
Yeah, it seems to depend a little on where you are fishing and what species you target. I have a preference for natural colors at any time, I like to "match the hatch" with local baitfish when I can. But bright reds, hot pink and fluoro green work great in clear shallow water at one of my favorite fishing spots. In clear, shallow water the fish can see most colors, so it comes down to their preference on the day.
Thanks for the support buddy and great point about the light meter. And incidentally, fish see light differently to people. Most scientists agree that the profusion of rod cells in the fish's retina indicates they are highly sensitive to contrast, while the low proportion of cone cells indicates they probably don't see color as well as we think, although it's different for different species, eg Reef fish see a lot of colors (even UV), while freshwater fish often see less colors.
Greg, Thanks to your viseo's I now know how to better fish the region I'm in. The Choctawhatchee Bay here in NW Florida has a couple of rivers running into it and therefore sometimes I get "dirty" water. and the bottom is a mixture of sand and mud in some places. But thanks to your video I think now I'll be better prepared depending on weather and what phase the moon's in.
Thanks for your thoughts! Technically, white absorbs less wavelengths, but not less light. Yellow just absorbs different wavelengths than other colors. But try this: Look at a yellow or white lure through a piece of blue cellophane and what color do they appear? Water has a similar but less dramatic effect, so white lures tend to look blue at depth. What does this mean in practical terms? Lure color is more important in shallow, clear water than it is in deep or dirty water.
I believe go "camouflage" with the area u are fishing are one of the ways. My favorite choices of colors usually are, red head, clown or watermelon during bright day at the shallow green or clear water. we go deep purple or red by the dark. when the fish are in feeding frenzy mostly all will work. Colors doesn't seems matter when u are fishing for barramundi at night as it can see in the dark, I usually catch a lot of them at night with soft bait or zerek's live shrimp.
This is excellent info. I always appreciate data based on science. I wonder if it is so awfully important to understand exactly how fish see colors. In that the color we see is still the same no matter how the fish experiences the the color. A purple lure is still purple no matter if it is viewed under low light or high light. Even though we (and fish) experience the color differently under varying conditions. I have found that contrast and movement can be just as important as color.
Actually, what you are saying exactly supports what I say in my video - dark colors like blue, purple and black are often the best in deep dark, dirty water, not because they are visible, but because they create a strong silhouette. You also touch on one of my favorite points - under these conditions color is often irrelevant because fish aren't feeding visually. In fact, they sense movement using their lateral line, in much the same way as we feel a breeze blow across the hairs on our arms
I’m 72 years old, I keep using the same colors over and over again because of success. I’m in a rut, I know I’m losing fish because I Stopped experimenting along time ago. I do not have time to experiment anymore, I’m so thankful there is people that have studied the subject, so I can take a shortcut stopped experimenting along time ago. I do not have time to experiment anymore, I’m so thankful there is people that have studied the subject, so I can take a shortcut. I am so stagnant in my selection.
Good stuff, and a bonus tip: Turbidity tends to absorb most wavelengths except red, so if you're fishing shallow and the water isn't too dirty then using fluorescent orange, green or yellow in turbid waters can sometimes make your lures that bit more visible because they use the red to enhance these other colors. Give it a try! Greg
You explained your claims exceptionally well and in an appropriate manner. Your scientific credentials, as others have mentioned, allows your claims and evidence to be more easily trusted.
They'll work better in brighter conditions, yes. But in deep water the size, shape and vibration of a lure will always be more important than color. Lure color will always play a bigger part in shallow, clear water and is less important the deeper you go. Even more so if the water is less than clear, or in your case when the ice blocks out a lot of the light before it even gets to the water
(cont) through the air/water interface. You are right that the light that remains immediately below the water surface penetrates further (depending on water clarity). This is because the attentuation in the water medium is due to absorptive and dispersive effects. The Gossen Luna won't give you this information - you need a cailbrated sensor at the water surface measuring ambient light simulatneously so you can correct underwater attentuation. All my studies were done using a (cont)
@327caveman yes there is a HUGE difference just depends on what type of fish you are talkin about. for.example walleye so great in very dark water, where bluegill bass and crappie cant as well
Thanks Rueben, appreciate the support. How white lures look beneath the water surface depends a little on conditions. In clear marine water, white gets slowly more blue the deeper you go. In most lakes it gets either a green coloration of goes red, depending on whether particulate material is from silt/sediment or algal growth. Under almost all conditions a stark white lure gives great contrast, making a white lure very visible. Great Question!
Incidentally, I've published an article on light penetration and fish vision on Amazon. TH-cam doesn't allow links, but if you go to Amazons Kindle store and search "Greg Vinall" you'll find it ;-)
If any of you have ever used culprit worms, you may be familiar with a color they call "tomato". That is an orange with yellow and green flecks, and some green swirls in certain sections, particularly the tail. This is a GREAT worm color for shallow, stained water, and I've caught many bass with this "tomato" color, even with other, similar colors. That orange/green works GREAT in shallow water. This is a well-kept secret. Good luck all.
Dr Vinall, is there a known NEGATIVE control in which a species of fish absolutely will not go after a particular color? I'm with you in the assertion we should downplay color selection relative to other factors. Not being a marine biologist (cancer biologist), I'm unfamiliar with how much research has been published on "recreational" bite studies; I'd love to extrapolate those studies for my own fishing benefits! I hope that wasn't received as downplaying your work because I can absolutely understand the importance strike ratios play to shark safety, low throughput commercial fishing, etc. Thanks for your contributions.
Fish see different to us. In fact, they can see different wavelengths in some cases, like UV. But at the end of the day, this isn't about what they are (or we) are able to see. It's about what is there to be seen. To clarify, ask yourself this: what color is a red shirt when you look at it in the dark? It's still red, of course, but if there isn't red wavelengths bouncing off it you can't see it. Or another example: what color is a piece of whit paper if you look at it through red cellophane?
(cont) underwater irradiameter with ambient light correction in the 400-700nm range. Thousands of aquatic scientists, oceanographers and physicists have measured this same effect, so there are plenty of publications you can read if you want more information. I've kept all of this in a very simple form because it is intended for lure fishermen, not photographers and scientists. It's a mistake to assume that everyone on the internet hasn't done their homework, this info is correct ;-)
ok thx i had a hard time trying to find your point in this video so dark collors are best for dark water. ok thx. i was way backwards. now the ice is melting here and its time for spring fishing. so now with all the darkness gone, bright colors work good?
i live up here n Maine where we have the ability to ice fish. Now if all this were true, then how come in 70 feet of merky water, darkened by the ice, are the fish still able to see my dark blue puppet minnow? i mean, sure some of this is true but you tell me.
Most of my lure fishing is done in 1m or less so colour is very important. It wouldn't be necessary for certain fish to be camouflaged or very brightly coloured if they were colourblind in their surroundings,would it? Hehe
Yup - but then think about what the fish sees if 5, 10, 15ft away from the lure underwater. Those reds are only important once the fish is on top of the lure. So perhaps placed in key locations - gills, near hooks, etc.
I only have good results with either bright colors, or a combination of bright colors and shiny-ness. Only fish in salt water though, but the few times I fish in fresh water, bright yellow and red, combined with black, chrome or copper are the only combinations that gave me results. Well apart from soft bait, those should be natural IMO, looks like a fish, acts like a fish, get "feeding" bites, everything that doesn`t look like prey is just antagonistic bait, and those are the ones I mentioned above. I love science, but why fish any other way than the one that gets you fish? ;)
What colours and sensitivity to different wavelength can the different species see? The size of the eye and the characteristics of the eye also applies. However it's good for someone to take this scientifically.
Yep, this viedo is purely about the behavior of light in water. But you are correct that fish see different color ranges. Some species can see UV, for instance, others can't. One thing that is typical in the eyes of just about every fish species is the high abundance of rod cells compared with cone cells. Every living animal has these two types of cells in their eye. Rod cells distinguish contrast, cone cells distinguish color. So what we can infer from this, and what we observe in fishing is that contrast is usually far more visible and important than color. Fish are often living in a murky or dark environment where they need to see shadows and silhouettes clearly or they go hungry. Color not so much.
And another question about how fish react to color given that a condition that colors are well available to be seen. Let's assume a shallow and clear water in an open sea enviroment, how far the pelagics like kingfish can see and do they tend to react better to unnatural colors (e.g. pink, orange) or natural colors, or it depends on? Thank yuo so much in advance.
Great questions there! What fish see and what they'll attack and eat can be two different things. In clear water when the fish have time to properly assess will they take natural colors or gaudy ones? They can take either, it really depends on their mood. I suppose the point of my video is more that fish very often can't see the colors that we think they can. More often than not, lure size, shape, diving depth, action, sound, flash, contrast are more important than the actual color. On those days when the water is clear and the fish are able to see all colors it's up to the fisherman to figure it out. But for the record, I personally prefer more natural colors and tend to make a switch when those colors are not working.
Thanks Greg for the great videos. I have been watching all 4 and it has completed changed my mindsets of coloring of lures. One question here how would you define shallow and clear water? I do a lot of rock fishing and my favorite spot in Sydney is an open sea spot, 7 to 10 metres deep, when the sea is calm (around 1m swell) during a sunny day, standing and seeing from high rock (15 m high), the bottom structure like reefs and flat can be quite clearly seen. Is this a typical shallow and clear water?
Yes, I'd call that shallow, clear water. Always along coastal environs there is the influence of the land. So Algae, sediment runoff etc means it's rarely gin clear along the coast. Ask any diver what the visibility is like at most near shore coastal reefs. The super clear water is generally when you get a fair way offshore, or onto some of those unspoilt tropical reefs......
This was very simply explained. Truth is that fish sight is much more complex than that. Some fish have red/green color blindness, but see UV light and IR light, while others have a very good color sight and also se UV and IR in addition to the same color range as we do. UV light is the light that reaches deepest down in the water, so Fluorescent colors which pick up UV light and reflect it in a color range that we can see will show up with their correct color at much deeper depths than for instance a plain Orange, Yellow or Green. Usually Fish don't ahve time to check out details as the lure is zipping past them at a high speed, so basic colors are all what is needed. take the classic white with blue back color. Add detailed scales, gill plates and finns, and the lure will certainly catch more anglers, but not more fish. There is one detail though that fish do take notice of, and that is the eyes. Checking which direction a prey is looking is important for a predator. tests show that adding a realistic 3D eyes to your lure will give more strikes.
Hi Matthew, I'm sorry but you've kinda missed the point. You are quite correct that visual acuity varies between species. And I couldn't agree more about your comments painting detail on lures. But this video isn't about what fish are capable of seeing. It's about what their environment, the water they live in allows them to see. For example, human eyes are perfectly adapted to seeing all of the colors in the human visible spectrum. But they can only see wavelengths that are there to be seen.Put on a pair of blue glasses and many of those other wavelengths get filtered out. Water is like a giant filter, the further light has to penetrate through it the less color will be visible. No matter what the fish might be capable of seeing - you can't see what's just not there. UV is an interesting one and gets far more attention than it should - lets just say there are some paint manufacturers doing pretty well from it. And IR? I'm not aware of any species that can "see" IR. The very long wavelength "far IR" that night vision cameras etc work on has almost zero penetration into water.
Greg Vinall , actual fysical tests prove what I say is true. You can check some of the other videos of actual underwater footage of various color charts. At 28 meters all normal colors have lost their color. Only the fluorescent colors have kept their color. Uv light holds more energy than visual light. That's why it penetrates deeper. It is also just past the blue and green light in wavelength, which are the visual colors that penetrate deepest.
Errrm. First, the correct spelling is "physical". Second: light penetration peaks in the blue wavelengths between 450-500nm. The higher energy purple and violet wavelengths (400-450nm) don't penetrate nearly as deep as the blue wavelengths. And the even higher energy short wavelengths of UV (
Matthew G. Hauge I have a PhD in Aquatic Science and have worked as an aquatic scientist for 25 years. Ive personally measured underwater light in lakes, rivers and the oceans in several countries. Plus I've worked with a bunch of other scientists around the world and reviewed lots of scientific studies on the subject. I regularly present fishing master classes on this subject at international boat shows and fishing expos. You?
@tacticalimpact98 because it makes a stonger silohete, or outline fish feed on instict and a small percent of sight trust me on that i have been studying fish behavior for goin on nine years
just one problem with this its what we see not the fish or game that sees the same thing light pent looks diffrent to us than what the fish or game see
White looks white at the surface, but in clear oceanic waters looks more and more blue the deeper the lure goes until there is not enough light to see it at all. In freshwater it goes brown, yellow or green with depth, depending on whether the water is clear or colored and what is creating the color
Not really, no. If your lures are near the surface then red hooks may be visible to fish, but if you are fishing deep or are in anything but perfectly clear water they'll probably look the same to the fish as any other hook - gray.
this is just a shot in the dark, but I know some birds and also some sea creatures see colours differently then us. So although for us a lure down deep might be bland and almost invisible, to some fish it might actually glow if they have those specific rods in their eyes. again. im just inquiring and not stating anything. if anyone knows for sure feel free to respond and fill me in. thank you
Yeah, fish see things different. And different species see different colors more easily too. But when you look at the structure of a fish retina under a microscope it contains lots of rod cells and very few cone cells compared to humans. Rod cells are very sensitive to light but don't distinguish color, only contrast. Cone cells need a lot more light but can distinguish color. So they see silhouette and contrast in low light better than humans, but not color. At least that's what the anatomical structure suggests.....
The good Doctor comes from the part of the globe that has so many aggressive feeding fish that they will jump in the boat or go after a bare hook like it was squid, mackerel and salmon bellies all in one.. Lure color? Thats for the rest of us who live in poor fishing waters to ponder. Everywhere else, they use a decent small fish catching rig called drop shot, down there they use a rig called a Drop Bear, just ask em what they catch on them rigs......yup, Megalodons. Life is indeed not fair.
i think you anticipate that humans and amphibians have a similar sense of sight. we dont share the same color receptors or the same conditions that led them to evolve. i believe you are not doing the common fish justice in calling them somewhat color blind
I think you've missed the point completely. It's not what fish eyes are capable of seeing. It's what their environment allows them to see. My eyes see red just fine but through blue cellophane red looks purple. Environment. Having said that, the eyes of almost all animals work in much the same way. They contain rod cells that see contrast and cone cells that see color. Fish have a much higher ratio of rod to cone cells than humans and most other animals, meaning their eyes are anatomically adapted to see contrast better than color. Oh, and fish aren't amphibians ;-)
No they are not amphibians. They are however evolutionarily similar in many ways. I was very inarticulate in my original comment. My point was more towards the assumption that fish are ill-prepared for such prenoted scenarios. Though the more I write this and think about it, the more it comes to mind that fish are very adaptable to condition and clearly still have methods in which they are successful in their pursuits. I just don't want to underestimate the potential of color under somewhat harsh circumstances. The slightest reflection of light could very well draw there attention. I am sure my point of view is somewhat naive in this occasion. I do however thankyou you for your response and greatly appreciate your videos.
donyp123 Your comments are well thought out and are appreciated, not at all naive. The major adaptation in the general structure of fish eyes seems to be the proliferation of rod cells, which allow them to see contrast exceptionally well. But we also know that different species perceive color differently due to adaptation to their predominant environment. Freshwater fish are often better adapted to see greens and yellows, offshore gamefish see blues and purples better. Some coral reef fish see massive color spectra including ultraviolet. But all of this is moot if the watery environment filters out most colors before they reach the fish's eye, which is the point of the video. What this highlights is that fish are not as dependent on vision as humans and use other senses to detect prey by vibration, smell, sound and minute water currents. Often these are senses are far more important than vision, yet lure fishermen tend to obsess over color!
Thanks for your time greg. I have a better understanding of your argument now. I was fixated on a certain point and became blindsided to the overall idea you wanted convey. Adaptation is a beautiful thing. The Science behind this or any other topic is always enlightening. Thanks again for your time
Sorry to say Scott, but you're 100% wrong. Light penetration is a physical phenomenon, what our eyes see is biological. Attenuation of light is the result of the absorption of light energy by water molecules and the scattering of light by particulate material, it's got nothing to do with how our eyes (or a fish's) interpret it. Our eyes detect the remaining wavelengths and interpret the info. It's true that fish see differently to humans, but they can only see those colors that penetrate.
I have been a underwater photographer for more than 20 years. I just wanted to tell you, you are,VERY wrong about the amount of light entering the seawater. There certainly is NOT a 25%, loss of light in the first 3/4" of water. If you really want to know the facts. Try taking a Gossen Luna light meter,in a u/water housing,and take your own readings. Light,travels much further than you think, especially in the first 15' of water. Just had to send this, there so much false imfo on the internet.
Thanks. It is great to have someone with your Scientific credentials explain such things in an accessible way. What is your opinion on glow in the dark type colours for use in deep water? do you think they look too unnatural or are they a potentially useful option? What about UV colours?. Is it just a gimmick? I would love to see a small video on UV. I think it would be a very popular video judging by the market popularity of UV colours.
+Lure Colour Studio: 21 Rb is pretty much on the money with glow in the dark. I haven't seen too many scientific studies, but based on my fishing and lure making observations a little goes a long way. Painting the eyes and one or two subtle markings can be beneficial for after dark or low light fishing. But too much glow is definitely a big turn off for most fish, in my experience at least.
Replacement arrived!By the way, I did forget to mention that the original lure did have a decent strike however as most anglers will attest you can get a hit th-cam.com/users/postUgkxCbNOWAGmn6nfbCbJDmasvBq7J38KZNw2 and fish will hang on and release lure. I used the replacement lure yesterday and ran thru a Shimano Waxwing, Kastmaster, Bobber (set to sink). I found the does run deep (I casting on the flats 3.5'). Make sure you adjust your rate of retrieve and rod tip angle (up) to prevent getting snagged on bottom. Used it a couple of times and action was very lifelike (looked like local bait fish for trevally), craftsmanship very good....however eyeball fell out. I asked for replacement and it is on it's way! It was very easy to change out treble to single inline hook.
*I caught this guy on my 3rd cast. Paired with these 4" trailers. **enjoyable.fishing** recommend slightly modified, I think i trimmed about 3/4 of an inch off of it. Its deadly!*
Thanks for the positive feedback! Fish do see color differently to us and in fact some species of fish see color different to other species. It's all to do with minor differences in how theireyes work. For example, pelagic gamefish (eg sailfish) see blue in more shades and more vividly than freshwater species can, which are better adapted to see shades of reds, yellows and greens. I couldn't agree more about movement and contrast - far more important than color!
I've had other BPM baits th-cam.com/users/postUgkxCbNOWAGmn6nfbCbJDmasvBq7J38KZNw2 before and they've pretty much always came through for me with the suskie smallies here and even with the walleye and pike, but I realized I didn't have an "in-between" pattern so this junebug one fills that role in no problem. it pairs up magnificently with a junebug Zoom Z-craw Jr that was trimmed a couple millimeters before the hook slots and rigged sideways for that fatter panfish side profile while still being a nice'n'compact presentation, a real power-finesse bait. Hell, it was so pretty I even bothered to fotosketch the pic into a watercolor painting image just to show you it's beauty! Even the blades are really well made, sure, they're not of Hildebrandt-level exquisiteness but look at the bead's reflection on the colorado blade, definitely well-made! The only "problem" spot it had was a bald spot in the skirt but it was nothing that I couldn't easily fix with a but of tuggin'n'shiftin' with the strands for a couple of seconds, besides that it is pretty minty!
Thanks Robert. I'm a professional aquatic scientist and I can assure you that the light attentuation figures I've provided are correct. I did quite a lot of underwater light measurements during my doctoral studies 15 or so years ago, but I'll admit I haven't done much since. The massive loss at the surface is due to reflective and refractive effects as the light passes from air to water, whereas the loss you are referring to is the loss due to absorption once the light has passed (cont)
Yeah, it seems to depend a little on where you are fishing and what species you target. I have a preference for natural colors at any time, I like to "match the hatch" with local baitfish when I can. But bright reds, hot pink and fluoro green work great in clear shallow water at one of my favorite fishing spots. In clear, shallow water the fish can see most colors, so it comes down to their preference on the day.
Thanks for the support buddy and great point about the light meter. And incidentally, fish see light differently to people. Most scientists agree that the profusion of rod cells in the fish's retina indicates they are highly sensitive to contrast, while the low proportion of cone cells indicates they probably don't see color as well as we think, although it's different for different species, eg Reef fish see a lot of colors (even UV), while freshwater fish often see less colors.
Great stuff! Thanks for the feedback, I'm glad you've found my videos useful! Stay tuned, when I get some time I'll produce more in this series.
Greg, Thanks to your viseo's I now know how to better fish the region I'm in. The Choctawhatchee Bay here in NW Florida has a couple of rivers running into it and therefore sometimes I get "dirty" water. and the bottom is a mixture of sand and mud in some places. But thanks to your video I think now I'll be better prepared depending on weather and what phase the moon's in.
Thanks for your thoughts! Technically, white absorbs less wavelengths, but not less light. Yellow just absorbs different wavelengths than other colors. But try this: Look at a yellow or white lure through a piece of blue cellophane and what color do they appear? Water has a similar but less dramatic effect, so white lures tend to look blue at depth. What does this mean in practical terms? Lure color is more important in shallow, clear water than it is in deep or dirty water.
White absorbs less wavelengths = white absorbs less light. More photons/waves that are being reflected = more light.
I believe go "camouflage" with the area u are fishing are one of the ways. My favorite choices of colors usually are, red head, clown or watermelon during bright day at the shallow green or clear water. we go deep purple or red by the dark. when the fish are in feeding frenzy mostly all will work. Colors doesn't seems matter when u are fishing for barramundi at night as it can see in the dark, I usually catch a lot of them at night with soft bait or zerek's live shrimp.
This is excellent info. I always appreciate data based on science. I wonder if it is so awfully important to understand exactly how fish see colors. In that the color we see is still the same no matter how the fish experiences the the color. A purple lure is still purple no matter if it is viewed under low light or high light. Even though we (and fish) experience the color differently under varying conditions. I have found that contrast and movement can be just as important as color.
Actually, what you are saying exactly supports what I say in my video - dark colors like blue, purple and black are often the best in deep dark, dirty water, not because they are visible, but because they create a strong silhouette. You also touch on one of my favorite points - under these conditions color is often irrelevant because fish aren't feeding visually. In fact, they sense movement using their lateral line, in much the same way as we feel a breeze blow across the hairs on our arms
I’m 72 years old, I keep using the same colors over and over again because of success. I’m in a rut, I know I’m losing fish because I Stopped experimenting along time ago. I do not have time to experiment anymore, I’m so thankful there is people that have studied the subject, so I can take a shortcut stopped experimenting along time ago. I do not have time to experiment anymore, I’m so thankful there is people that have studied the subject, so I can take a shortcut. I am so stagnant in my selection.
Absolutely brilliant information for amateur and experienced anglers alike.
Good stuff, and a bonus tip: Turbidity tends to absorb most wavelengths except red, so if you're fishing shallow and the water isn't too dirty then using fluorescent orange, green or yellow in turbid waters can sometimes make your lures that bit more visible because they use the red to enhance these other colors. Give it a try! Greg
You explained your claims exceptionally well and in an appropriate manner. Your scientific credentials, as others have mentioned, allows your claims and evidence to be more easily trusted.
i really appreciate what you have taught me in your videos. because of your information i have, been catching more fish!
They'll work better in brighter conditions, yes. But in deep water the size, shape and vibration of a lure will always be more important than color. Lure color will always play a bigger part in shallow, clear water and is less important the deeper you go. Even more so if the water is less than clear, or in your case when the ice blocks out a lot of the light before it even gets to the water
(cont) through the air/water interface. You are right that the light that remains immediately below the water surface penetrates further (depending on water clarity). This is because the attentuation in the water medium is due to absorptive and dispersive effects. The Gossen Luna won't give you this information - you need a cailbrated sensor at the water surface measuring ambient light simulatneously so you can correct underwater attentuation. All my studies were done using a (cont)
Awesome, this info is going straight to my mentors at the NRC/WRO (National Robotics Competition/World Robotic Olympiad)
@327caveman yes there is a HUGE difference just depends on what type of fish you are talkin about. for.example walleye so great in very dark water, where bluegill bass and crappie cant as well
Best fishing video i'v seen hands down.
Thanks Rueben, appreciate the support. How white lures look beneath the water surface depends a little on conditions. In clear marine water, white gets slowly more blue the deeper you go. In most lakes it gets either a green coloration of goes red, depending on whether particulate material is from silt/sediment or algal growth. Under almost all conditions a stark white lure gives great contrast, making a white lure very visible.
Great Question!
Incidentally, I've published an article on light penetration and fish vision on Amazon. TH-cam doesn't allow links, but if you go to Amazons Kindle store and search "Greg Vinall" you'll find it ;-)
If any of you have ever used culprit worms, you may be familiar with a color they call "tomato". That is an orange with yellow and green flecks, and some green swirls in certain sections, particularly the tail. This is a GREAT worm color for shallow, stained water, and I've caught many bass with this "tomato" color, even with other, similar colors. That orange/green works GREAT in shallow water. This is a well-kept secret. Good luck all.
Dr Vinall, is there a known NEGATIVE control in which a species of fish absolutely will not go after a particular color?
I'm with you in the assertion we should downplay color selection relative to other factors. Not being a marine biologist (cancer biologist), I'm unfamiliar with how much research has been published on "recreational" bite studies; I'd love to extrapolate those studies for my own fishing benefits! I hope that wasn't received as downplaying your work because I can absolutely understand the importance strike ratios play to shark safety, low throughput commercial fishing, etc. Thanks for your contributions.
Thanks for the vid. Works for stripers up here in long island NY too.
good to know, but do fish see color like we do? or do they see it better in water then we do? is this video showing what they see or what we see?
Fish see different to us. In fact, they can see different wavelengths in some cases, like UV. But at the end of the day, this isn't about what they are (or we) are able to see. It's about what is there to be seen. To clarify, ask yourself this: what color is a red shirt when you look at it in the dark? It's still red, of course, but if there isn't red wavelengths bouncing off it you can't see it. Or another example: what color is a piece of whit paper if you look at it through red cellophane?
(cont) underwater irradiameter with ambient light correction in the 400-700nm range. Thousands of aquatic scientists, oceanographers and physicists have measured this same effect, so there are plenty of publications you can read if you want more information.
I've kept all of this in a very simple form because it is intended for lure fishermen, not photographers and scientists.
It's a mistake to assume that everyone on the internet hasn't done their homework, this info is correct ;-)
ok thx i had a hard time trying to find your point in this video so dark collors are best for dark water. ok thx. i was way backwards. now the ice is melting here and its time for spring fishing. so now with all the darkness gone, bright colors work good?
Great video mate!
Exactly the information I was looking for!
Thanks mate! Glad you got some value from it!
Love it man, thanks for the info.
i live up here n Maine where we have the ability to ice fish. Now if all this were true, then how come in 70 feet of merky water, darkened by the ice, are the fish still able to see my dark blue puppet minnow? i mean, sure some of this is true but you tell me.
No worries! I'd love a pack of those invisible hooks, let me know when you perfect them!
Thank you, just recently purchased your two books. Cheers!
color spectrum.... its just like lights and the Kelvins its the same concept Good Tip
una pregunta amigo que colores me recomiendas para pesca de orilla en la playa y como puedo tener mayor alcance con un señuelo desde la orilla?
Most of my lure fishing is done in 1m or less so colour is very important. It wouldn't be necessary for certain fish to be camouflaged or very brightly coloured if they were colourblind in their surroundings,would it? Hehe
Yup - but then think about what the fish sees if 5, 10, 15ft away from the lure underwater. Those reds are only important once the fish is on top of the lure. So perhaps placed in key locations - gills, near hooks, etc.
Greg, does this mean that red hooks are better than normal colored hooks?
Why does blue work? This might be why.
i belive the colors like yellow and white and much better because they absorb the least light, so colors does matter.
Thanks buddy, glad to be of assistance!
I only have good results with either bright colors, or a combination of bright colors and shiny-ness.
Only fish in salt water though, but the few times I fish in fresh water, bright yellow and red, combined with black, chrome or copper are the only combinations that gave me results.
Well apart from soft bait, those should be natural IMO, looks like a fish, acts like a fish, get "feeding" bites, everything that doesn`t look like prey is just antagonistic bait, and those are the ones I mentioned above.
I love science, but why fish any other way than the one that gets you fish? ;)
What colours and sensitivity to different wavelength can the different species see? The size of the eye and the characteristics of the eye also applies. However it's good for someone to take this scientifically.
Yep, this viedo is purely about the behavior of light in water. But you are correct that fish see different color ranges. Some species can see UV, for instance, others can't. One thing that is typical in the eyes of just about every fish species is the high abundance of rod cells compared with cone cells. Every living animal has these two types of cells in their eye. Rod cells distinguish contrast, cone cells distinguish color. So what we can infer from this, and what we observe in fishing is that contrast is usually far more visible and important than color. Fish are often living in a murky or dark environment where they need to see shadows and silhouettes clearly or they go hungry. Color not so much.
Great Video series! Very informative!
And another question about how fish react to color given that a condition that colors are well available to be seen. Let's assume a shallow and clear water in an open sea enviroment, how far the pelagics like kingfish can see and do they tend to react better to unnatural colors (e.g. pink, orange) or natural colors, or it depends on? Thank yuo so much in advance.
Great questions there! What fish see and what they'll attack and eat can be two different things. In clear water when the fish have time to properly assess will they take natural colors or gaudy ones? They can take either, it really depends on their mood. I suppose the point of my video is more that fish very often can't see the colors that we think they can. More often than not, lure size, shape, diving depth, action, sound, flash, contrast are more important than the actual color. On those days when the water is clear and the fish are able to see all colors it's up to the fisherman to figure it out. But for the record, I personally prefer more natural colors and tend to make a switch when those colors are not working.
Onya bloke, some interesting info. Much appreciated..
is this program available for fresh water?
When fishing at night is it better to use a darker or brighter colored lure? Also dark versus full moon?
Thanks Greg for the great videos. I have been watching all 4 and it has completed changed my mindsets of coloring of lures. One question here how would you define shallow and clear water? I do a lot of rock fishing and my favorite spot in Sydney is an open sea spot, 7 to 10 metres deep, when the sea is calm (around 1m swell) during a sunny day, standing and seeing from high rock (15 m high), the bottom structure like reefs and flat can be quite clearly seen. Is this a typical shallow and clear water?
Yes, I'd call that shallow, clear water. Always along coastal environs there is the influence of the land. So Algae, sediment runoff etc means it's rarely gin clear along the coast. Ask any diver what the visibility is like at most near shore coastal reefs. The super clear water is generally when you get a fair way offshore, or onto some of those unspoilt tropical reefs......
Thanks Greg for the tip!
This was very simply explained. Truth is that fish sight is much more complex than that. Some fish have red/green color blindness, but see UV light and IR light, while others have a very good color sight and also se UV and IR in addition to the same color range as we do. UV light is the light that reaches deepest down in the water, so Fluorescent colors which pick up UV light and reflect it in a color range that we can see will show up with their correct color at much deeper depths than for instance a plain Orange, Yellow or Green.
Usually Fish don't ahve time to check out details as the lure is zipping past them at a high speed, so basic colors are all what is needed. take the classic white with blue back color. Add detailed scales, gill plates and finns, and the lure will certainly catch more anglers, but not more fish.
There is one detail though that fish do take notice of, and that is the eyes. Checking which direction a prey is looking is important for a predator. tests show that adding a realistic 3D eyes to your lure will give more strikes.
Hi Matthew, I'm sorry but you've kinda missed the point. You are quite correct that visual acuity varies between species. And I couldn't agree more about your comments painting detail on lures. But this video isn't about what fish are capable of seeing. It's about what their environment, the water they live in allows them to see. For example, human eyes are perfectly adapted to seeing all of the colors in the human visible spectrum. But they can only see wavelengths that are there to be seen.Put on a pair of blue glasses and many of those other wavelengths get filtered out. Water is like a giant filter, the further light has to penetrate through it the less color will be visible. No matter what the fish might be capable of seeing - you can't see what's just not there. UV is an interesting one and gets far more attention than it should - lets just say there are some paint manufacturers doing pretty well from it. And IR? I'm not aware of any species that can "see" IR. The very long wavelength "far IR" that night vision cameras etc work on has almost zero penetration into water.
Greg Vinall , actual fysical tests prove what I say is true. You can check some of the other videos of actual underwater footage of various color charts. At 28 meters all normal colors have lost their color. Only the fluorescent colors have kept their color. Uv light holds more energy than visual light. That's why it penetrates deeper. It is also just past the blue and green light in wavelength, which are the visual colors that penetrate deepest.
Errrm. First, the correct spelling is "physical".
Second: light penetration peaks in the blue wavelengths between 450-500nm. The higher energy purple and violet wavelengths (400-450nm) don't penetrate nearly as deep as the blue wavelengths. And the even higher energy short wavelengths of UV (
I believe you should study these facts a bit further, because it doesn't work quite like you claim.
Matthew G. Hauge I have a PhD in Aquatic Science and have worked as an aquatic scientist for 25 years. Ive personally measured underwater light in lakes, rivers and the oceans in several countries. Plus I've worked with a bunch of other scientists around the world and reviewed lots of scientific studies on the subject. I regularly present fishing master classes on this subject at international boat shows and fishing expos. You?
But you didn't say which color is more visible underwater
He does explain it in his book. :D
Question:
Do Fish eyes have the ability to see colors
@Global Occult So all the colors are bait for us
Thanks for this, Im going to science the shit outta my next fishing outing! :-)
how did it go?
Not good
Very helpful. Thanks for the tips.
@tacticalimpact98 because it makes a stonger silohete, or outline fish feed on instict and a small percent of sight trust me on that i have been studying fish behavior for goin on nine years
junebug is my favorite
do a vid on muddy waters
great information!
just one problem with this its what we see not the fish or game that sees the same thing light pent looks diffrent to us than what the fish or game see
So I want to ask,what about white colur? Thanks!
White looks white at the surface, but in clear oceanic waters looks more and more blue the deeper the lure goes until there is not enough light to see it at all. In freshwater it goes brown, yellow or green with depth, depending on whether the water is clear or colored and what is creating the color
Thank you very much!!!!!!!
ok thanks u just got another subscriber thank you again
Not really, no. If your lures are near the surface then red hooks may be visible to fish, but if you are fishing deep or are in anything but perfectly clear water they'll probably look the same to the fish as any other hook - gray.
this is just a shot in the dark, but I know some birds and also some sea creatures see colours differently then us. So although for us a lure down deep might be bland and almost invisible, to some fish it might actually glow if they have those specific rods in their eyes.
again. im just inquiring and not stating anything. if anyone knows for sure feel free to respond and fill me in.
thank you
Yeah, fish see things different. And different species see different colors more easily too. But when you look at the structure of a fish retina under a microscope it contains lots of rod cells and very few cone cells compared to humans. Rod cells are very sensitive to light but don't distinguish color, only contrast. Cone cells need a lot more light but can distinguish color. So they see silhouette and contrast in low light better than humans, but not color. At least that's what the anatomical structure suggests.....
Greg Vinall Thank you very much for your informative reply. Greatly appreciate it!!
Very helpful.
The good Doctor comes from the part of the globe that has so many aggressive feeding fish that they will jump in the boat or go after a bare hook like it was squid, mackerel and salmon bellies all in one.. Lure color? Thats for the rest of us who live in poor fishing waters to ponder.
Everywhere else, they use a decent small fish catching rig called drop shot, down there they use a rig called a Drop Bear, just ask em what they catch on them rigs......yup, Megalodons.
Life is indeed not fair.
LoL, I must have missed that boat that all the fish are jumping into!
This is why I use topwater
This makes my brain hurt lol great info
i cant believe these bisseness people ripped almost everyone off like that
GET EM'!
Thanks for info
Thankz Bro...
Sorry, I can respond to questions in English only....
I've never been good at physics. I actually saw that as a method to make the hooks invisible. hah
i think you anticipate that humans and amphibians have a similar sense of sight. we dont share the same color receptors or the same conditions that led them to evolve. i believe you are not doing the common fish justice in calling them somewhat color blind
I think you've missed the point completely. It's not what fish eyes are capable of seeing. It's what their environment allows them to see. My eyes see red just fine but through blue cellophane red looks purple. Environment. Having said that, the eyes of almost all animals work in much the same way. They contain rod cells that see contrast and cone cells that see color. Fish have a much higher ratio of rod to cone cells than humans and most other animals, meaning their eyes are anatomically adapted to see contrast better than color. Oh, and fish aren't amphibians ;-)
No they are not amphibians. They are however evolutionarily similar in many ways. I was very inarticulate in my original comment. My point was more towards the assumption that fish are ill-prepared for such prenoted scenarios. Though the more I write this and think about it, the more it comes to mind that fish are very adaptable to condition and clearly still have methods in which they are successful in their pursuits. I just don't want to underestimate the potential of color under somewhat harsh circumstances. The slightest reflection of light could very well draw there attention. I am sure my point of view is somewhat naive in this occasion. I do however thankyou you for your response and greatly appreciate your videos.
donyp123
Your comments are well thought out and are appreciated, not at all naive. The major adaptation in the general structure of fish eyes seems to be the proliferation of rod cells, which allow them to see contrast exceptionally well. But we also know that different species perceive color differently due to adaptation to their predominant environment. Freshwater fish are often better adapted to see greens and yellows, offshore gamefish see blues and purples better. Some coral reef fish see massive color spectra including ultraviolet. But all of this is moot if the watery environment filters out most colors before they reach the fish's eye, which is the point of the video. What this highlights is that fish are not as dependent on vision as humans and use other senses to detect prey by vibration, smell, sound and minute water currents. Often these are senses are far more important than vision, yet lure fishermen tend to obsess over color!
Thanks for your time greg. I have a better understanding of your argument now. I was fixated on a certain point and became blindsided to the overall idea you wanted convey. Adaptation is a beautiful thing. The Science behind this or any other topic is always enlightening. Thanks again for your time
donyp123
My pleasure, thanks for some great thoughts!
good watch..:)
شرحك ممتاز بس مافهمت شي
طيب
Sorry to say Scott, but you're 100% wrong. Light penetration is a physical phenomenon, what our eyes see is biological. Attenuation of light is the result of the absorption of light energy by water molecules and the scattering of light by particulate material, it's got nothing to do with how our eyes (or a fish's) interpret it. Our eyes detect the remaining wavelengths and interpret the info. It's true that fish see differently to humans, but they can only see those colors that penetrate.
match the hatch
Fiberglass hook!
Fish see different than humans
okay.... WHAT!??
Useless info,4 min blabla and came up with obvious thing
Why are super big guys always so bad at fishing, and the super skinny dudes are the ones that reel in big fish no problem
I have been a underwater photographer for more than 20 years.
I just wanted to tell you, you are,VERY wrong about the amount of light entering the seawater. There certainly is NOT a 25%, loss of light in the first 3/4" of water. If you really want to know the facts.
Try taking a Gossen Luna light meter,in a u/water housing,and take your own readings. Light,travels much further than you think,
especially in the first 15' of water.
Just had to send this, there so much false imfo on the internet.
Thanks. It is great to have someone with your Scientific credentials explain such things in an accessible way.
What is your opinion on glow in the dark type colours for use in deep water? do you think they look too unnatural or are they a potentially useful option?
What about UV colours?. Is it just a gimmick? I would love to see a small video on UV. I think it would be a very popular video judging by the market popularity of UV colours.
With the glow in the dark lures, the fish might find sketchy. Think about it you wouldn't want to eat anything that glows.
+21 RB
I would probably eat glow in the dark bacon.
+Lure Colour Studio: 21 Rb is pretty much on the money with glow in the dark. I haven't seen too many scientific studies, but based on my fishing and lure making observations a little goes a long way. Painting the eyes and one or two subtle markings can be beneficial for after dark or low light fishing. But too much glow is definitely a big turn off for most fish, in my experience at least.