Everyone is going to laugh, but I'm still very happy. I use a Marantz sr-18 reciever circa 2002. It does everything I need. I am happy with 5.1 surround. Plus musically I am still impressed. I know I am missing all the tech features but when you're happy, you're happy. 😁
equipment back then is much sturdier than the shite today. now they prop the box full of garbage like DSPs ruining the audio quality by unleveling the signals out of phase, almost for the fun it. What do we need all these bluetooth, AM/FM, tons of DSPs for? No, I don't need EOAS, Yamaha whatever streaming. You're good man, embrace your old sturdy state of the art box. Electronics today are all put together in China anyways.
@@TreenighetMaranata Congrats! What a fantastic machine! I am watching Heartbreak Ridge as we speak and this beauty mated up with dual SVS subs and Klipsch speakers is all I could have ever hoped for.🙂
@@thomasfox8027 It gives me chills and extreme joy to read that there someone has the same setup as me... makes me feel more confident that I am doing the right thing hahaha
I have a Pioneer VSX-LX503 that I purchased "open box" almost a year ago for around $550. I thought that was a steal. I've never paid full price for any of my home theater equipment with the exception of my Emotiva XPA 7. Live your alls channel. I listen to it religiously!
The problem I find is most amplifier reviews are for the expensive ones. I would like to see reviews of affordable amps. I don't mean $200 , $300 or $400 amps but between $600 -$700 amps. Not all of us have the money for expensive amps. Oh and I live in Ireland so it would be handy to see reviews of amps available in Europe too if at all possible.
@@patricklafontaine2402 well you aren't looking very hard because I don't see any reviews of any amplifiers for a reasonable price. All reviews I see are for €1000+
I have had a Yamaha RX-V2075 for a few years now, it has all the things you mentioned and has never let me down. My next receiver will defiantly be another Yamaha.
Gene speaks truth here! I've been using separate amps(200wpc) for the front mains forever. I don't use multi-subs anymore because the mains are big DefTechs that go down to 17hz and my vintage Servo 15" Velodyne sub still pumps.
I did the same thing - our model doesn't have Independent Dual Subwoofer Output... but it does have dual output. I'd like to learn more about the implications because I was just about two subs!
Denon 3500. I started with one sub. Now I have two. Then I added an external amp for front L/R. And finally, a separate phono preamp. Great receiver. Receiver was a steal at the ~$550 I paid for it. Exceptional value. Exactly like he said, preouts and sub connection give you so much flexibility and an upgrade path if that’s your thing.
Exactly the model I want to purchase for the reasons you stated. Have the 1400 and a Yamaha tsr model. Wish I would've just saved the money and purchased the 3500.
I’m definitely in the market for a receiver with pre amp outputs, but I’ve seen some have the “preamp output” but unusable(?) ie: Yamaha aventage rxa2a. Thanks
I had to do something similar with mine, my 5.3.2 has two powered towers with subs. so I have two sub outs, with 2 subs on one and 3 subs on the other via LFE
i hope you're feeling better sir.. I am currently using Denon x3600h.... i am pretty new to the whole audio scene. It is thanks to people such as yourself that i am hooked and not completely clueless. Thank you!!!
I’m rocking the Marantz SR7012 with an Outlaw Model 5000. Elac Adante for the front 3 (got them on clearance) SVS Ultra dipoles for rear, a pair of SVS prime elevations, and two SVS 13Ultras for a 5.2.2 system
Sweet setup! How are you liking the dipoles? My couch is against the back wall, so I have the wall going to left of the couch that goes to the front of the room where I have the TV and the right side of the couch/room is pretty open, so I've been going back and forth on whether dipoles on the back wall would be a good option.
I have a budget receiver, sony STR-DH550 purchased on Craigslist for $50. The models in the line subsequently (like the DH590) didn't have banana plug connections but this one did for all 5 speakers so I actually prefer this one over the more recent models but this is way short of the receivers you have been discussing with pre outs and dual sub outputs. I'd like the upgrade eventually so I pay attention so what the current trends are. I also have old pair of Polk towers RTA-8t (from 1988) and some newer polk bookshelfs for the surrounds and a Def Tech center channel thats a big improvement over the tiny Energy center I had before. I got a Monoprice sub on the used market also. The new Denon line looks nice. I know your not a big Sony fan due to their lack of innovation but i have an Onkyo 2 channel receiver (TX8020) that started to go on the blink. The remote stopped working after a couple years and the tuner started to go crazy too, constant scanning of stations without stopping. Got it cheap on craig's too for $60 but included pair of Klipsch bookshelf speakers, all in new condition. Also threw in an old adcom amp but I sold that off since I wasn't using it. Had to repair the speaker terminals in back first. Seems Sony does have decent build quality and last long time from my past experiences with other models.
Good advice Gene. As an example, due to the Covid situation, the building & shipping of my new preamp has been delayed, so my audio dealer provided a high quality receiver with pre-outs on loan so I could connect my 2 separate amps (2 amps for 11 channels) to the receiver, and the combination works like a charm.
Hi Gene, I'm using denon x8500h with klipsch rp and Dali atmos speakers in 7.1.8, with svs sb3000, my next upgrade is a second sb3000, I've been so impressed with the quality and depth svs brings to my whole system, thanks for your great channel.
Pioneer VSX-LX503 receiver, 3 Outlaw Audio 2200 M's for front stage (Klipsch towers and center), Outlaw Audio 7000x for surrounds (Klipsch), and dual Klipsch 12 in subs. I'm actually looking into the mini dsp for the subs. All speakers are entry level stuff, but sound good to me. Thanks Gene for all you do for the audio community.
The old civilized time statement in context of audio from gene is real. I like gene and his videos and got a lot of information from audioholics. Even though i can't afford expensive audio equipment, his videos are helpful for even budget users. Like using minidsp for 2 parallel subwoofer output.
I have the Onkyo RZ920. Bought it in 2017 because it had dual independent subwoofer outputs and pre outs. Mind you I was still learning about everything and I still am. It’s been a great receiver so far. I’m not a fan of the accueq however. Made my primes sound funky, wasn’t a fan. I’ve got a umik-1 and REW that I’m hoping to dip into soon.
Hi Sir I'm using Denon AVR X2300W it has no pre-amp outputs, only Zone 2 and Subwoofer pre-outs, I want add an external 2 channel Stereo amp to run the Front L R speakers, is it possible to connect amp using Zone 2 pre-outs, please provide your valuable advise or any other alternative method, Many Thanks
Pioneer 503, Rotel 1552, KEF R3s front, getting the matching center soon, and just some simple Polls for rears as place holders for the time being. LOVE my KEF R3s
Denon AVR-2112CI. Bought it like 10 years ago since it did 1080p on screen display that overlays and didn't look like 8-bit atari from the 80's. Still loving it. Has audessy, turns on and off automatically, chooses input and controls volume automatically via smartnet from any device/remote in my HDMI system. Backfeeds audio via the HDMI from my TV for devices hooked directly to the TV. Cable or TV remote is all I need. Until it dies, I'm keeping it.
working on a new theater room in my basement and bought an Yamaha Aventage RX-A2060 looking forward to getting it installed soon and have a 7.2.2 atmos setup.
Marantz SR 7013 user here. Second SUB ( H/K 200/220) was a big boost to the sound. Running 5.2.4 with front and rear hights (Harman Kardon speakers). Very happy with the system, plenty of power and I never go above 70, it gets too loud (small flat). Also Audyssey LFC (Low Frequency Contaiment) is a God send, no more neighbors knocking on the door (before LFC 10 to 15 incidents 🙂). PS I keep LFC at 1 for movies and 4 for eveything else (games, TH-cam, TV etc).
Glad you are feeling better Gene. I have a Marantz SR6013 currently only using it for a 5.1 system and loving it but I have room to expand when needed. Take care!
Thanks, Gene. Your videos are always well done and informative. I am using a Marantz SR-6015 because it has pre-outs for all processed channels. About a year after I acquired this AVR, I was able to add external amps for the 7-channel bed layer. My next AVR will be a fully-balanced pre-pro.
Alllriiight! Gene's back doing his "thing"! This is great advice, as you said, when looking to upgrade. I have a 49year old Harmon Kardon 330A receiver, and a pair of Advent 2way floor speakers, same "vintage" that have served me flawlessly since. All originally bought. I don't know or understand the need for subwoofers. My system delivers excellent bass response without it. Of course I've had to add a thing or two to accommodate my still active VCR and CD Player. In fact, while watching some DVDs, I recently noticed deep bass signals in the soundtracks of Marvel movies I never knew were there! I've shopped around to completely redo my sound system, but always found, I've assembled the best for my ears those many years ago while in college. But, your advice is good advice to have now that today's audio market is so expansive. Welcome back, Gene!
X1400H in bedroom and TSR 7850 (Costco variant of RX A780) in the living room. Although it will now be replaced by the 3600h. Thanks Gene, more amp options due to 11 pre amp outs as well as the dual (independent) sub outputs. After watching Gene's video about the merits of 3600h I had to consider. Just went on sale this week for $800 and that was my sign to take the leap.
Just getting started in this arena. Got some Emotiva speakers and didn't realize they were 4 ohms! Had to find a receiver able to drive them, so I settled on the Onkyo TX-RZ730. Hooked them up today for a quick test. Was not disappointed.
There is another thing some of us need that has largely fallen off the map -- multi-channel analog inputs. I was using a Rotel 1067 as my primary AV receiver until I upgraded to a modern TV and needed HDMI. Only a handful of AV receivers offer HDMI and multi-channel analog inputs. I settled on the Marantz SR-5013, similar but with less amp power than the 8012 you picture at 1:36. You can see the 7.1 inputs just to the left of the dual sub outs you have circled.
G'day Gene, I bought late last year, the last one on the shelves in Australia, the Yamaha RX-A 3070 for $2000.00aud that were selling for $3200.00, as the master to a 7.2.4 system I've just finished building, upgrading my old kenwood krf-v5100d-s 5.2 system, I also bought another matching kenwood 2nd hand, in great condition cheap $100aud, to build my new sound system, using the yamaha rx-a3070 and it being the only yamaha that can be used like this, because it's the only one you can assign the atmos to the pre outs (maybe rx-a 3080 too ???), with this it allowed me to use the yamaha pre outs feeding into the kenwoods via their 6 channel in, one kenwood to power my atmos fronts and rears, the other kenwood to power my surround sides and rears, leaving the juice of the yamaha to power my centre and fronts, my speakers are Australian made accusound reference 8.6xd 200w 8ohm 90db sensitivity, centre, atmos fronts and rears(bookshelf), sides and rears(bookshelf), fronts I bought as well for this build, are polk signature series s60 and I chose these because they will handle the power from yamaha, 8ohm and being 90db sensitivity, fitting right in with my accusounds, the yamaha having two separate subwoofer outs, are feeding my bought new for build, replacing my old 2x accusound 200w subs class ab amps, new one's are 2x Emotiva BaseX s12 300w rms class d subwoofers, for $452.00aud each delivered, end of line sale and a bargain, that were selling $1200.00 each, tuning it all in was fun, I eventually found the kenwoods had to be turned right up, then the ypao setting dB levels for fronts at 0.00, at first ypao was setting fronts -12db, then not having to add volume dB to atmos or surrounds, when I achieved this after working the kenwoods volume up each time I ran ypao, eventually getting great results, the kenwoods are a 100w x 5 channels, using only 4 channels, I'd say I'd be getting 110w roughly per channel from them, yamaha powering up 3 channels would be roughly 120w per channel, I base these ratings off bench tests I found on line, yamaha powering 4 channels was if I remember rightly 105w per channel, so powering 3 channels must be close to my estimate, in all it's a great sounding system, with out the features of these AVR's and like you go over in this tutorial, it couldn't of be done, my first atmos experience was the KNOWING 4k version with atmos, the plane crash I got a real taste of the emotiva's, WOW! then the train crash, I'm sure the emotiva's moved my recliner across the floor 4 inches lol, then the full on sound bubble of the atmos was awsome, I'm so hook on atmos now, the polk's dig deep, ypao wanted to set them large, but it becomes to much base, so I manually set them small and the crossover sounded best at 40hz, ypao also wanted to set centre large, so I made it small and the crossover sounded best at 60hz, all other speakers are set small 80hz crossover, at reference level it sounds great, clear and sharp, rolling off into emotiva's very smoothly, this my first yamaha and it's a beast of unit, I'm loving it!
Hi Gene, i I purchased a Onkyo 730 last year and did not realize that the two sub preouts were one signal. Frankly, i didn't know it was needed. However, i just got two new SVS 2000 Pro and problem solved with the app that allows you to make numerous adjustments to each sub independently. Im still playing with it using REW. GOOD TO SEE YOUR BACK
I have a Denon AVR-S950 for my basement. I use SVS Prime Fronts, Satellites, Elevation, Center Channel and 2 SVS PB-2000 Pro subs. I purchased a Yamaha RX-V685 for my family room but cancelled it and ordered a Denon AVR-X3700H for the multiple Preamp outputs. I currently have Audioengine A5+ and Kanto YUs with two PB-1000s and a SVS Prime Center coming in. Will use the preamps to run the powered speakers and speaker outputs to run the center channel. Ultimately I am going to replace the Powered speakers. I was going to replace the Denon in my basement but it sounds great as is. However, I have plans for my family room hence the reason I spent extra for the X3700H. I do listen to Audioholics because skimping always leads to spending more later.
Gene, my setup is nothing crazy but thanks to your videos, I learned about these 2 key features before I purchased a receiver and I'm glad i listened to you. I bought a Denon 3400H 7.2 and now I'm eyeing a 5 channel Outlaw 755 with 200 watts per channel to use for my 3 front speakers. I have 1 sub and bass transducers but I am looking forward to buying a second sub to replace transducers. The point is, because of you, I future proofed and now I want more power!
I bought a Denon AVR-X2800H . Didn't know about subs and preamps out. Returned it and bought the Denon AVR-4800H which has 4 independent subs out and multiple preamps out.
I currently have a Sony STR-DN1080. I have it set up for Atmos with height channels and 1 SVS PB1000. I moved into a house with an open concept living room and kitchen. (15x29x11) It honestly sounds plenty loud to me but I’ve always been curious how upgrading my receiver will help with the quality of the sound, not merely the output as I am already blasting it pretty loudly.
G'day Gene, I couldn't agree more, my last set up was a basic Kenwood krf-v5100d-s 5.1 with Accusound Ref8.6XD 8ohm 200w speakers and two Accusound 200w a/b subwoofers, I did a lot of research towards buying a new set up, I had a limited budget I was working with and good idea of what I was looking for, I ended up choosing the Yamaha RX-A3070, for a number of reasons, 1:- it has independent subwoofer outs, 2:- it looked to be future proof, 3:- at the time I bought, it was the only Yamaha you could assign atmos speakers to pre outs, and why bought another secondhand Kenwood krf-v5100d-s in great con and cheap $100au, I then bought matching Accusound bookshelf speakers for my rears and atmos fronts/rears, for my fronts a pair of Polk Audio Signature S60 and I bought 2 extra subwoofers Emotiva BaseX S12' class D 300w, then I built my system, I assigned atmos to pre outs, that one Kenwood powered via it's 6 channel in, pre outs of my sides and rears powered by second Kenwood, so this left the grunt of my Yamaha RX-A3070 to power centre and fronts, the Kenwoods couldn't of been a better choice, the power match was perfect, in setting it up I found the Kenwoods volume had to be around - 2 below reference level and because both are only powering 4 speakers each, it wasn't asking to much of the Kenwoods, Yamaha YPAO then setting feed to Kenwoods - 1 or - 2 dB and not needing to feed Kenwoods with extra power, it all works so well, I was amazed, I can play the system at +5 above reference and no over heating issues, I set yamaha volume not to go above +5 dB, because I have used it above that, at around +8 dB the Yamaha didn't like it and why I set it to cut volume off +5 dB. I've learnt with the Yamaha RX-A3070 and it's YPAO now, owning it for just over a year now, is YPAO will only get you so close, but if you open Parametric EQ, then MANUAL, you can then copy YPAO:Natural settings (this suits my room best) into manual set up and then fine tune the sound from there, also the independent subwoofers and use your manual settings after this, YPAO delays are left alone, my sound now is absolutely awesome, I hope to get many more years out of it all.
I've only been into home theater for a little over a year and already really wish I had been into Audioholics sooner. Started with the Yamaha RX-A1080 for 1 year and already upgraded to the RX-A3080. Now I feel like I'm semi-future proofed.
I have a Yamaha RX-V665 A/V receiver, which is nowhere up to date as some of the new receivers, but I'm very satisfied with it. It is a 7.2 receiver. I have it setup as a 7.1 system with Klipsch Synergy speakers, F3s as my main front speakers. My sub is a Klipsch SW-450. Not sure that I need a second sub. My room is only 12 ft. width by 21 ft. length and 7.5 ft. height. I purchased the complete system in 2011 and it stills sounds good to me. I also my a Music Hall USB-1 turntable with a Shure M97xE cartridge, a Pioneer RT-1020L reel to reel tape deck, and a Tascam CD-RW700 Recorder connected to my system as well as my 55 inch TV and PC computer.
I have a Denon x4500h and I do believe it has both independent sub control and it does have unbalanced pre outs. I am very pleased with the performance in both movie and music Fidelity. Thoughts and prayers for you and your family during this time Gene, thank you for all you do.
i have a denon avr -x4700h i am useing the preout puts my question is iam useing the preout put on my setup is on the receiver i have on preout can i use this setting for a 7.1
Watching your videos inspired me to upgrade my surround system, beginning in December. So after months of research I went from Onkyo 5.1 to Denon X3500H 7.1 -- wanted to retain some legacy options, and it has independnet subwoofer outs. Added second subwoofer identical to first. Have no experiece with other EQ systems, but I like Audyssey for what it can do -- especially in the X3500H, which allows different crossovers for different sets of speakers, whereas in the Onkyo only one was allowed
I am currently adjusting my setup to make some improvements. Integra DRX7 RUNNING 7.2.4. Playing with my subwoofer setup, since I like my 2 channel audio and I am blessed with a wife that lets me have multiple audio setups. I had a subwoofer fail and I replaced it with an SVS PB4000. I also have Martin Logan Dynamo 800x running on the second channel, I think I may switch out for another PB4000 and move the 800x to another room with a pair of Motion 15i I have such a great speaker. That's it in a nutshell.
I took your advice in an earlier video you did. I went out and bought the Denon AVR-X3600H and do not regret it. I can confirm that it has both features you cover here and I love it. I now have 2 independent sub-woofers which the amp controls and the bass output when required is excellent. Many thanks for your advice and reviews.
I have a Onkyo TX NR1030 currently which replaced my old TX NR747 with the HDMI issue. Its fixed and sitting in the box it came back from repair in. Only complaint is that they said it would be DTS X upgradable but alas they say it is not able to be upgraded to the format, something to do with the software is the "company line." Very pleased with the sound, and running a full blown system with Def Tec's (8060"s with Atmos elevation speakers atop)(apartment so inceling is a no go), DT SR9080's and Pioneer Elite SP-EBS73-LR handling the rear and the atmos as well. My sub is a very old but steady Velodyne FSR-15 and still love it to this date. I have no idea what to replace it with should I ever need a new one.. to many choices.. and some astounding price points for them.. Great channel and I prayed for you guys yesterday when I watched your message about help. I'm disabled so money is tight so that is all I can do unfortunately. God Bless
Harmon/Karden AVR-245 starter system with Infinity IL50’s + center channel. I just bought a REL HT1205 & it’s awesome! I am in the process of upgrading the receiver, speakers, maybe get a 5 channel amp down the line. I’m interested in the Marantz SR6014 & SVS Prime Pinnacle speakers, but things can change as technology does.
I have these features in my Denon 3700 and am using both. My dual SVS subs and using my old receiver pre out to run my mains for my 7.2.4 Atmos setup. Thanks for your great advice!
I just have an old Onkyo HT R530. I'm definitely going to make sure to get a new one that has preamp outputs. I was thinking on getting a dedicated pre amp and amp for the whole system but that's a lot of money to drop at one time.
100% right .2 preamp outs --2 subs out and 2 HDMI OUTS to . So many receivers do not have these 3 main features ..Listen to Gene ,little more bucks gets you a lot more in the long run.
GENE , Glad to see you again Brother. DENON X8500h , MARANTZ SR8012 or YAMAHA AVENTAGE RX-A3080 . I going to get one of those for my future home theater remodel . Which of those is ideal ( PRICE , performance, features) is for a 7.2.4 ATMOS? The satellite speakers 🔊 (left and right) KLIPSCH RF-7 iii , Center RC-64 iii, ( 2 ) RP-500M for side surrounds ,( 2 ) RP-500m for Back surrounds . ( 4 ) in Ceiling ATMOS SPEAKERS 🔊 CDT-3650-C-II.( 2 ) SVS PB-3000( or other one equivalent) .GOD bless you and Hope you get back to Normal soon 🙋🏻♂️🔊. We will keep listening 👂 🔊🔊🎼!
You're looking good Gene. Hang in there. My main receiver for over 9 years has been the Yamaha RXV 667. It does have two sub outputs, but it's essentially the same output x2. However, I am in a position to do four subs since I have two Sony SA-WM500 subs (where you can daisy-chain). It also has 7-channel pre-out as well; It's handy since I just got my inaugural pair of Polk RTIa3 speakers (in zone 2 for now). Let me know if you'd like to talk about it more.
I don't change receivers til there is a MAJOR new feature like 4K or Lossless sound processing. Other than that those other BS features do not entice me. I have the Denon X3400H as my processor, Parasound 5 channel amp and no need to do anything for a long, long time.Great video Gene, hope your feeling good and the family is safe.
I'm still using my Carver HR895. Was very impressive when I bought it in '95 since it was selling then for $1500, and continues to serve me well. After adding children to the home, my media room is only about 9 feet deep, so the 5.1 is acceptable. Still enjoy its sound quality even though I know there are more technologically advanced units available.
Minds seem to say that Audyssey doesn't individually correct enough for two or more subs, so just split the signal and let it average the response. Does this recommendation still hold true if a receiver has dual independent sub outs?
I bought my receiver about 5 years ago. It's an Onkyo TX SR 333. it's actually one of the low end models but has followed me through 3 house moves. Currently running a 3.1 setup and it does the job decently enough. It doesn't have many features but has been reliable since the day I bought it. Would probably go with an Onkyo again, maybe Yamaha or Denon too
Currently have an old Onkyo 7.2 receiver with DTS Master/Dolby True HD but only running setup as 5.0 cause I haven't invested in subs, just full range L/R, so I felt it when you pointed your finger at me 😄 Looking at your videos to consider the 2020 Denon 3700H with plans to get upgraded to 7.2.4... eventually.
Hey Gene, I bought the Marantz SR6014 late 2019 and have been super happy with it. I have owned Marantz AVRs for about 13 years now and have loved the sound. Yes it has does have dual sub out and 11 pre-amp outputs. 😄
Hey Gene, I too have this AVR, that Drew Has, BUT... my pre-amp outputs, don't look the same as the ones you highlighted in this video. So what am I missing with the ones that I have in the SR6014? I feel I bought way above my needs until I saw this list of must haves!
Still use a onkyo txsr 876 as my preamp. Bought it new like 10 years ago. I still rock a 60 inch kuro 1080p plasma too. I do wish I had dual separate outputs. I run 4 subs but they are all similar in performance and distance from the main seating area.
I had an onkyo tx-nr474 reveiver, and now have a marantz pm5005 integrated amp. Very good video, it is a smart move to invest a little more in a receiver/amp with preamp outs for upgrading capabilites. Greetings from Uruguay.
Hey Gene. Glad you're feeling better. I recently got a Marantz NR1609. It has two sub outs and pre amps for the fronts. I am planning on adding a power amp and sub soon... Eventually, a second sub.
I just upgraded to the Marantz SR 5013. Also replaced my front R&L speakers with Def Tec D-11's. I am having a tough time getting it all setup. I had an Onkyo HT-R693 AVR and it was actually a great receiver but it did not have preouts or DTS , DTSX & DTSX virtual. I am going to add the Crown XLS1502 soon I hope. That is if everything goes my way. I could use some advice on some crucial settings that you believe I should apply to my AVR. Thanks Gene and I really enjoy your videos. Have a great day and hope to hear something from you if you have time.
I have the Marantz 7.2 SR5013 and have had it for about a year. I am running a 5.2.2 Atmos setup. I have been pretty happy with it but the subs do not work independently... Didn't research enough before pulling the trigger apparently. I was able to balance them pretty well with the gain, but can't change the delay independently. But over all it has been a great receiver!
I just bought a Yamaha TSR-7810 referb exactly because it has pre-outs for all channels. I love it so far!. It was a great deal for $300 (List is $850 2017)
Have a Denon AVR-6400H and I have been using the internal amp but I just ordered a emotive 11-channel amp to power the 7.2.4 set up I have. Gonna bi-wire the front and center speakers too when I get the amp but I guess that's probably not really going to do anything. Excited how the amp changes the sound. speakers are all SVS ultra with surrounds in duet mode and 4 prime elevations for height and dual cylinder PB-2000 SVS subs. Will update next week when the amp should be set up.
Denon X1400H, yes I want the dual sub outputs but currently I can't see myself needing the pre-outs. I've thought about upgrading by honestly I think I'm better of just getting the miniDSP and sticking with it until it's too outdated to use.
I’m happy with my Denon AVR x3200w picked it up on Craigslist for 300 dollars last year. I have a Polk audio RTI 12 for Towers, CSI10 for the center, and monitor 40’s for surrounds, and 2 polk Psw505’s for 5.2.
Being delivered today! Got a great deal on a Marantz 8012. Hope one day to add that second sub. You look better Gene. Hope you are on the road to recovery.
nice info sir ... I hav Denon x2400H, has 2 sub outs. so i hav connected 2 subs separately but still I am getting only one subwoofer option on the setup screen. can u pls help me out? thanks in advance
Hello Gene I am using a pioneer sc lx76 9.2 channel avr !!! It’s a very good avr with air studios and thx certifications. I bought it in 2013 though th model is from 2012 . It has preouts for 11 channels and 2 subwoofer outs unfortunately they aren’t independent. Over all I am very happy with it . It has 4K pass through. And 140W at 8 Ω in two channel mode.The only thing I miss is Dolby atmos Dtsx and auro 3D.
I'm using an ancient (by A/V standars) Pioneer VSX-LX53. Pre outs was a must have, it also have a button on the front panel that turns of the speakers output of the recivers itself. I'm using it with a Parasound 5125 power amp. It only has a single sub output and it doesnt do any EQ of the sub, only disstance. But I'm using a miniDSP to eq the sub, if I suggested adding another sub my SO would kill me. Great video!
Looking forward to seeing how DSP works on single sub output stages, my Arcam is an older unit that fronts my small A/V system I bought the receiver when my bigger and older arcam quit on me. I also separated my two channel listening when that occurred. At 52 years young I’m not developing a taste for a bigger AVR to front my projector the 2 channel has stole my heart. Audiophile since the eighties gene.
Gene, great info. But I would add another option for connecting dual subwoofers and that's through the front channel pre-outs especially if you have subs with a built in dsp like SVS Ultras, Revel etc. By connecting this way you bypass the avr's crossover all together instead of defeating the subs and I think that's the way the sub manufacturers designed it to work of not better. I have a Yamaha A3060. It has a few good options for multiple subs e.g. mono, stereo and front & rear but I have had the best results with the option I mentioned. Ny the way if you already have a separate power amp you can use a Y splitter (male to 2 female) and continue the run from each left and right output from the preyour of your AVR. Also I'd like to mention I got that suggestion from Paul at P.S.A. 👍🏽
I still use an old school receiver Denon AVR 3803. When I bought it I had made sure of two things. Analogue inputs and outputs 7.1 in case I wish to upgrade. Bought it in 2004!? Now use it with an Oppp 103D where the decoding gets done. I am pretty happy as no issues and O still get codecs upto DTs-Hd-ma
I still use the 3801 and it sounds considebly better than the stuff I hear today in the $1,000 - $2,000 price point! I mean how much power do people need?🤔🙄🤯
@@bigjay1970 3 years ago I bought a great condition Denon 4802r w/remote. (2004 year 2000$rec retail :)for 250$ being obsolete. It's a tank and powerhouse....large torroidal power transformer + caps. Then I bought excellent condition Definitive technology speakers (7) Bp10 towers, clr 2002 center, 4 promonitor 1000 surrounds for 950....add cables + interconnects. I only spent 1200$ for entire kick ass system. I'm still enjoying .... I don't care to upgrade at all. Sounds seriously amazing to anyone I've shown. Yeah I only get 7 ch DTS@1.5mbps + dolby digital@640kbps via optical digital...who cares about having all tech bells and whistles. I use HDMI for all video needs to get 4k, and I use the Denon receiver strictly for audio via optical digital. I have a nice large 4k HDR Sony led TV + 4k Blu ray player+ 5 game console hooked up to TV to get best picture quality too
Hey Steve: About 5 years ago I was in the market for a good ( meaning in by budget range ) AV Processor . I looked at brands like Madrigal ( way ove my budget and specially on some Anthem model that was a la par with the Denon. One of the main reasons I chose the Denon taking aside , sound, quality build and others, was the fact that it had not one but three Sub out puts that really sold me out ! Output 1 and 2 were asignable like A & B or left and right and #3 was LFE asignable. The possibilities were endless. Just because of these Sub options I got the Denon. And it has worked in my HT set up flawlessly ever since . There are a couple of things that I still would like to set up like the Odyssey and others. It is quite complex and I know that I just have scratched the surface.
Running the Pioneer SC-LX901 AVR, Outlaw 7000x running my lower 7 channels powering my Klipsch Reference Premier speakers, Outlaw 5000x powering my 4 SVS Prime Elevation Atmos speakers. 2 SVS PB-3000 powered subs and with the Pioneer, I have the option of turning my internal amplifiers completely off, turning my AVR into a pre/pro, basically. Works great, looks great, sounds great!!
I use a denon avr x4400h receiver and use a power amp for my surround tower canton speakers. I still use one paradigm 10 inch subwoofer but audessey manages to get the most out of it and i have a lot of base at my sitting position.
I'm still kicking around with DENON AVR-X7200WA model and yes it has dual sub outs and I do use that mini DSP device it's very useful. One thing it doesn't have XLR balanced outputs or inputs.
I have the Yamaha RX-V679. I have had this for 6 years. The last year I have gone down the rabbit hole of sound quality, and now I would like to have the pre outs to upgrade f,c,r speakers. Wish I would have bought the RX-V779 as it had the preouts. Otherwise this receiver has everything I need. 4k, dolby vision pass-through, bluetooth, the phone app, and dtshd. Those were the big ones I wanted and still use.
I'm using a 10 year old computer (first generation intel i7 baby!) with a 24" IPS panel monitor, with a 10 year old soundcard (Xonar Essence STX), hooked up to a 20 year old Harmon Kardon AV receiver, hooked up to a couple B&W bookshelf speakers... and it sounds lovely! The bookshelf speakers sound lovely, and my headphones too (Sennheiser PC360 headphones). I don't have a TV, I use my computer monitor for TV & movies.
I took your advice (from a few years back) and picked up a Denon X3300W for less than 500 bucks when the X3400W just came out (50% off, brand new). This is probably the least money you can spend that gets you both of your must-haves (2 independent sub outputs and multi-channel pre-outs). I'm running 2 SVS subs, and powering front, center and surround channels by a used Emotiva amps that I picked up on Craigslist for cheap (don't remember what model but it's very heavy, about 70lbs I think). The receiver's internal amp takes care of the ceiling Atmos channel. The setup works great.
While I agree with the two features you mentioned, I've replaced the last 2AVR's because they didn't have the most recent version of HDMI connection. Receivers with the full complement of HDMI 2.1 will be out within 6 to 12 months and will provide many more years of service than the units being sold today. It will have modest improvement with today's equipment and be able to pass signals from tomorrows sources to tomorrows TV's. Being somewhat future proof on the HDMI front makes me feel better about spending more on a unit with the additional connections discussed here.
Got my Denon 4500h for Christmas. It has everything I need .. and more -> Atmos, DTS:X/IMAX enhanced, Auro, support of 5.2.4, dual sub out, a lot of streaming services, ... 😉✌️
THANK YOU! I thought i was the only one! I have an old Yamaha and that I just couldn't part with because it has the pre-out on all channels. Newer AV receivers went away with the pre-outs which is so disappointing.
Can you teach us about getting an integrated amp? Things we can buy used, vs new. What are the best ones to get - with dac or without etc. Let's say you only had £1000. How would you use it? In my case, I need AV bypass. I have kef r500 that are 25-105rms 88db dipping to 3.2ohms We could really use a video on this topic!
Great advice!, I try to tell people to think before their purchase also. it sucks to see a friend get a 5.1 receiver and they planned on setting up a 7.2 with possible addition of height channels.
Yamaha RX-A3050 for the processing of 7.1.4. Onkyo TX-SR876 in bridged mode to power the fronts. Paradigm Studio v.3 series for the 7.1 (100s, CC570, ADP (can't remember the model number) for sides, and 20s for the back), and four Paradigm Cinemas mounted on the ceiling for Atmos.
I snagged the Denon x3700h I'm good on everything you just talked about. I'm getting ready to add the Outlaw 5000x to the mix for lower channels then use Denon to power the 4 Atmos speakers. That's the plan sir.....
Onkyo txrz 820. Got it for every reason you said. Sub-outs aren't independent, but you can at least run 2 subs (I do). Pre-outs for every channel. Really happy with it.
Thinking about an upgrade. Currently running a Marantz 6012. Thoughts on the Denon 3600H? Any other suggestions are welcome! Thanks for the channel and glad to see you're feeling better!
Everyone is going to laugh, but I'm still very happy. I use a Marantz sr-18 reciever circa 2002. It does everything I need. I am happy with 5.1 surround. Plus musically I am still impressed. I know I am missing all the tech features but when you're happy, you're happy. 😁
equipment back then is much sturdier than the shite today. now they prop the box full of garbage like DSPs ruining the audio quality by unleveling the signals out of phase, almost for the fun it. What do we need all these bluetooth, AM/FM, tons of DSPs for? No, I don't need EOAS, Yamaha whatever streaming.
You're good man, embrace your old sturdy state of the art box. Electronics today are all put together in China anyways.
Just bought my first Denon 2 months ago. The AVR-X3600H and man do I ever love this thing. Best receiver I have ever owned by a country mile.
Same here, it is so nice, by far the best to own for our budget!
@@TreenighetMaranata Congrats! What a fantastic machine! I am watching Heartbreak Ridge as we speak and this beauty mated up with dual SVS subs and Klipsch speakers is all I could have ever hoped for.🙂
@@thomasfox8027
Does make you wonder the people that spend 20x more. Can it sound that much better!🤪🤯
@@thomasfox8027 It gives me chills and extreme joy to read that there someone has the same setup as me... makes me feel more confident that I am doing the right thing hahaha
@@dubscee6472 HAHA, you do?? That's awesome!!😆
The two features:
1. Independent dual subwoofer outputs.
2. Preamp outputs (let's you hook up an external amplifier if you need more power).
Anish Chari The keyword being “independent”, not just dual. So you can fine tune them differently from each other.
It's not a deal breaker though. You can add an inexpensive active crossover which gives more control anyway.
Which older receivers have these two features
@@bobbringe7315 quite a lot of them. pick a manufacturer, go to discontinued models, look at specifications.
Or, Atmos.
Picked up a Denon X4500H after watching your video! Looks like it has everything I need...at least for 6 months :)
I have a Pioneer VSX-LX503 that I purchased "open box" almost a year ago for around $550. I thought that was a steal. I've never paid full price for any of my home theater equipment with the exception of my Emotiva XPA 7. Live your alls channel. I listen to it religiously!
The problem I find is most amplifier reviews are for the expensive ones. I would like to see reviews of affordable amps. I don't mean $200 , $300 or $400 amps but between $600 -$700 amps. Not all of us have the money for expensive amps. Oh and I live in Ireland so it would be handy to see reviews of amps available in Europe too if at all possible.
i found its the opposite, i have a avr Denon 3312ci and would love reviews of Something in the same price rage i paid 2600$ years ago but in 2020
@@patricklafontaine2402 well you aren't looking very hard because I don't see any reviews of any amplifiers for a reasonable price. All reviews I see are for €1000+
Find a local av installer in your area, and buy a trade in unit.
@@everss02 there are no installers here in my part of Ireland
I have had a Yamaha RX-V2075 for a few years now, it has all the things you mentioned and has never let me down. My next receiver will defiantly be another Yamaha.
If they ever release their new lines......waiting waiting waiting
I used to feel the same way about Yamaha, and owned three of them....until I got the Denon 4500 and 6500 AVR's.
Defiantly huh?! Lmao
Gene speaks truth here! I've been using separate amps(200wpc) for the front mains forever. I don't use multi-subs anymore because the mains are big DefTechs that go down to 17hz and my vintage Servo 15" Velodyne sub still pumps.
Just bought the Denon AVR -S750H - arrived two days ago. Still trying to set it up! So far is AWESOME!! Just need to now tweak it!!!
I did the same thing - our model doesn't have Independent Dual Subwoofer Output... but it does have dual output. I'd like to learn more about the implications because I was just about two subs!
Denon 3500. I started with one sub. Now I have two. Then I added an external amp for front L/R. And finally, a separate phono preamp. Great receiver. Receiver was a steal at the ~$550 I paid for it. Exceptional value. Exactly like he said, preouts and sub connection give you so much flexibility and an upgrade path if that’s your thing.
Exactly the model I want to purchase for the reasons you stated. Have the 1400 and a Yamaha tsr model. Wish I would've just saved the money and purchased the 3500.
I’m definitely in the market for a receiver with pre amp outputs, but I’ve seen some have the “preamp output” but unusable(?) ie: Yamaha aventage rxa2a. Thanks
Upgraded to Marantz 6013 recently. Running 3 subs in 7.3.4 setup. I ran a rca splitter to run 2 subs off of one sub out.
I had to do something similar with mine, my 5.3.2 has two powered towers with subs. so I have two sub outs, with 2 subs on one and 3 subs on the other via LFE
Got enough BOOM BOOM?😉
i hope you're feeling better sir..
I am currently using Denon x3600h.... i am pretty new to the whole audio scene. It is thanks to people such as yourself that i am hooked and not completely clueless. Thank you!!!
I’m rocking the Marantz SR7012 with an Outlaw Model 5000. Elac Adante for the front 3 (got them on clearance) SVS Ultra dipoles for rear, a pair of SVS prime elevations, and two SVS 13Ultras for a 5.2.2 system
Sweet setup! How are you liking the dipoles? My couch is against the back wall, so I have the wall going to left of the couch that goes to the front of the room where I have the TV and the right side of the couch/room is pretty open, so I've been going back and forth on whether dipoles on the back wall would be a good option.
I like them a lot. Expensive but they offer lots of options for configuration.
I have a budget receiver, sony STR-DH550 purchased on Craigslist for $50. The models in the line subsequently (like the DH590) didn't have banana plug connections but this one did for all 5 speakers so I actually prefer this one over the more recent models but this is way short of the receivers you have been discussing with pre outs and dual sub outputs. I'd like the upgrade eventually so I pay attention so what the current trends are. I also have old pair of Polk towers RTA-8t (from 1988) and some newer polk bookshelfs for the surrounds and a Def Tech center channel thats a big improvement over the tiny Energy center I had before. I got a Monoprice sub on the used market also. The new Denon line looks nice. I know your not a big Sony fan due to their lack of innovation but i have an Onkyo 2 channel receiver (TX8020) that started to go on the blink. The remote stopped working after a couple years and the tuner started to go crazy too, constant scanning of stations without stopping. Got it cheap on craig's too for $60 but included pair of Klipsch bookshelf speakers, all in new condition. Also threw in an old adcom amp but I sold that off since I wasn't using it. Had to repair the speaker terminals in back first. Seems Sony does have decent build quality and last long time from my past experiences with other models.
Good advice Gene. As an example, due to the Covid situation, the building & shipping of my new preamp has been delayed, so my audio dealer provided a high quality receiver with pre-outs on loan so I could connect my 2 separate amps (2 amps for 11 channels) to the receiver, and the combination works like a charm.
Hi Gene, I'm using denon x8500h with klipsch rp and Dali atmos speakers in 7.1.8, with svs sb3000, my next upgrade is a second sb3000, I've been so impressed with the quality and depth svs brings to my whole system, thanks for your great channel.
Pioneer VSX-LX503 receiver, 3 Outlaw Audio 2200 M's for front stage (Klipsch towers and center), Outlaw Audio 7000x for surrounds (Klipsch), and dual Klipsch 12 in subs. I'm actually looking into the mini dsp for the subs. All speakers are entry level stuff, but sound good to me. Thanks Gene for all you do for the audio community.
The old civilized time statement in context of audio from gene is real. I like gene and his videos and got a lot of information from audioholics. Even though i can't afford expensive audio equipment, his videos are helpful for even budget users. Like using minidsp for 2 parallel subwoofer output.
I have the Onkyo RZ920. Bought it in 2017 because it had dual independent subwoofer outputs and pre outs. Mind you I was still learning about everything and I still am. It’s been a great receiver so far. I’m not a fan of the accueq however. Made my primes sound funky, wasn’t a fan. I’ve got a umik-1 and REW that I’m hoping to dip into soon.
Hi Sir I'm using Denon AVR X2300W it has no pre-amp outputs, only Zone 2 and Subwoofer pre-outs, I want add an external 2 channel Stereo amp to run the Front L R speakers, is it possible to connect amp using Zone 2 pre-outs, please provide your valuable advise or any other alternative method, Many Thanks
Pioneer 503, Rotel 1552, KEF R3s front, getting the matching center soon, and just some simple Polls for rears as place holders for the time being. LOVE my KEF R3s
Denon AVR-2112CI. Bought it like 10 years ago since it did 1080p on screen display that overlays and didn't look like 8-bit atari from the 80's. Still loving it. Has audessy, turns on and off automatically, chooses input and controls volume automatically via smartnet from any device/remote in my HDMI system. Backfeeds audio via the HDMI from my TV for devices hooked directly to the TV. Cable or TV remote is all I need. Until it dies, I'm keeping it.
working on a new theater room in my basement and bought an Yamaha Aventage RX-A2060 looking forward to getting it installed soon and have a 7.2.2 atmos setup.
Marantz SR 7013 user here. Second SUB ( H/K 200/220) was a big boost to the sound. Running 5.2.4 with front and rear hights (Harman Kardon speakers). Very happy with the system, plenty of power and I never go above 70, it gets too loud (small flat). Also Audyssey LFC (Low Frequency Contaiment) is a God send, no more neighbors knocking on the door (before LFC 10 to 15 incidents 🙂).
PS I keep LFC at 1 for movies and 4 for eveything else (games, TH-cam, TV etc).
Gene, I haven’t always agreed with you but I’m glad to see you’re doing better. And yes, I agree about pre-outs and dual subwoofer control.
Glad you are feeling better Gene. I have a Marantz SR6013 currently only using it for a 5.1 system and loving it but I have room to expand when needed. Take care!
Thanks, Gene. Your videos are always well done and informative. I am using a Marantz SR-6015 because it has pre-outs for all processed channels. About a year after I acquired this AVR, I was able to add external amps for the 7-channel bed layer. My next AVR will be a fully-balanced pre-pro.
Alllriiight! Gene's back doing his "thing"! This is great advice, as you said, when looking to upgrade. I have a 49year old Harmon Kardon 330A receiver, and a pair of Advent 2way floor speakers, same "vintage" that have served me flawlessly since. All originally bought. I don't know or understand the need for subwoofers. My system delivers excellent bass response without it. Of course I've had to add a thing or two to accommodate my still active VCR and CD Player. In fact, while watching some DVDs, I recently noticed deep bass signals in the soundtracks of Marvel movies I never knew were there! I've shopped around to completely redo my sound system, but always found, I've assembled the best for my ears those many years ago while in college. But, your advice is good advice to have now that today's audio market is so expansive. Welcome back, Gene!
X1400H in bedroom and TSR 7850 (Costco variant of RX A780) in the living room. Although it will now be replaced by the 3600h. Thanks Gene, more amp options due to 11 pre amp outs as well as the dual (independent) sub outputs.
After watching Gene's video about the merits of 3600h I had to consider. Just went on sale this week for $800 and that was my sign to take the leap.
Just getting started in this arena. Got some Emotiva speakers and didn't realize they were 4 ohms! Had to find a receiver able to drive them, so I settled on the Onkyo TX-RZ730. Hooked them up today for a quick test. Was not disappointed.
There is another thing some of us need that has largely fallen off the map -- multi-channel analog inputs. I was using a Rotel 1067 as my primary AV receiver until I upgraded to a modern TV and needed HDMI. Only a handful of AV receivers offer HDMI and multi-channel analog inputs. I settled on the Marantz SR-5013, similar but with less amp power than the 8012 you picture at 1:36. You can see the 7.1 inputs just to the left of the dual sub outs you have circled.
G'day Gene, I bought late last year, the last one on the shelves in Australia, the Yamaha RX-A 3070 for $2000.00aud that were selling for $3200.00, as the master to a 7.2.4 system I've just finished building, upgrading my old kenwood krf-v5100d-s 5.2 system, I also bought another matching kenwood 2nd hand, in great condition cheap $100aud, to build my new sound system, using the yamaha rx-a3070 and it being the only yamaha that can be used like this, because it's the only one you can assign the atmos to the pre outs (maybe rx-a 3080 too ???), with this it allowed me to use the yamaha pre outs feeding into the kenwoods via their 6 channel in, one kenwood to power my atmos fronts and rears, the other kenwood to power my surround sides and rears, leaving the juice of the yamaha to power my centre and fronts, my speakers are Australian made accusound reference 8.6xd 200w 8ohm 90db sensitivity, centre, atmos fronts and rears(bookshelf), sides and rears(bookshelf), fronts I bought as well for this build, are polk signature series s60 and I chose these because they will handle the power from yamaha, 8ohm and being 90db sensitivity, fitting right in with my accusounds, the yamaha having two separate subwoofer outs, are feeding my bought new for build, replacing my old 2x accusound 200w subs class ab amps, new one's are 2x Emotiva BaseX s12 300w rms class d subwoofers, for $452.00aud each delivered, end of line sale and a bargain, that were selling $1200.00 each, tuning it all in was fun, I eventually found the kenwoods had to be turned right up, then the ypao setting dB levels for fronts at 0.00, at first ypao was setting fronts -12db, then not having to add volume dB to atmos or surrounds, when I achieved this after working the kenwoods volume up each time I ran ypao, eventually getting great results, the kenwoods are a 100w x 5 channels, using only 4 channels, I'd say I'd be getting 110w roughly per channel from them, yamaha powering up 3 channels would be roughly 120w per channel, I base these ratings off bench tests I found on line, yamaha powering 4 channels was if I remember rightly 105w per channel, so powering 3 channels must be close to my estimate, in all it's a great sounding system, with out the features of these AVR's and like you go over in this tutorial, it couldn't of be done, my first atmos experience was the KNOWING 4k version with atmos, the plane crash I got a real taste of the emotiva's, WOW! then the train crash, I'm sure the emotiva's moved my recliner across the floor 4 inches lol, then the full on sound bubble of the atmos was awsome, I'm so hook on atmos now, the polk's dig deep, ypao wanted to set them large, but it becomes to much base, so I manually set them small and the crossover sounded best at 40hz, ypao also wanted to set centre large, so I made it small and the crossover sounded best at 60hz, all other speakers are set small 80hz crossover, at reference level it sounds great, clear and sharp, rolling off into emotiva's very smoothly, this my first yamaha and it's a beast of unit, I'm loving it!
Hi Gene, i
I purchased a Onkyo 730 last year and did not realize that the two sub preouts were one signal. Frankly, i didn't know it was needed. However, i just got two new SVS 2000 Pro and problem solved with the app that allows you to make numerous adjustments to each sub independently. Im still playing with it using REW.
GOOD TO SEE YOUR BACK
I have a Denon AVR-S950 for my basement. I use SVS Prime Fronts, Satellites, Elevation, Center Channel and 2 SVS PB-2000 Pro subs. I purchased a Yamaha RX-V685 for my family room but cancelled it and ordered a Denon AVR-X3700H for the multiple Preamp outputs. I currently have Audioengine A5+ and Kanto YUs with two PB-1000s and a SVS Prime Center coming in. Will use the preamps to run the powered speakers and speaker outputs to run the center channel. Ultimately I am going to replace the Powered speakers. I was going to replace the Denon in my basement but it sounds great as is. However, I have plans for my family room hence the reason I spent extra for the X3700H. I do listen to Audioholics because skimping always leads to spending more later.
Gene, my setup is nothing crazy but thanks to your videos, I learned about these 2 key features before I purchased a receiver and I'm glad i listened to you. I bought a Denon 3400H 7.2 and now I'm eyeing a 5 channel Outlaw 755 with 200 watts per channel to use for my 3 front speakers. I have 1 sub and bass transducers but I am looking forward to buying a second sub to replace transducers. The point is, because of you, I future proofed and now I want more power!
I bought a Denon AVR-X2800H . Didn't know about subs and preamps out. Returned it and bought the Denon AVR-4800H which has 4 independent subs out and multiple preamps out.
I currently have a Sony STR-DN1080. I have it set up for Atmos with height channels and 1 SVS PB1000.
I moved into a house with an open concept living room and kitchen. (15x29x11)
It honestly sounds plenty loud to me but I’ve always been curious how upgrading my receiver will help with the quality of the sound, not merely the output as I am already blasting it pretty loudly.
G'day Gene, I couldn't agree more, my last set up was a basic Kenwood krf-v5100d-s 5.1 with Accusound Ref8.6XD 8ohm 200w speakers and two Accusound 200w a/b subwoofers, I did a lot of research towards buying a new set up, I had a limited budget I was working with and good idea of what I was looking for, I ended up choosing the Yamaha RX-A3070, for a number of reasons, 1:- it has independent subwoofer outs, 2:- it looked to be future proof, 3:- at the time I bought, it was the only Yamaha you could assign atmos speakers to pre outs, and why bought another secondhand Kenwood krf-v5100d-s in great con and cheap $100au, I then bought matching Accusound bookshelf speakers for my rears and atmos fronts/rears, for my fronts a pair of Polk Audio Signature S60 and I bought 2 extra subwoofers Emotiva BaseX S12' class D 300w, then I built my system, I assigned atmos to pre outs, that one Kenwood powered via it's 6 channel in, pre outs of my sides and rears powered by second Kenwood, so this left the grunt of my Yamaha RX-A3070 to power centre and fronts, the Kenwoods couldn't of been a better choice, the power match was perfect, in setting it up I found the Kenwoods volume had to be around - 2 below reference level and because both are only powering 4 speakers each, it wasn't asking to much of the Kenwoods, Yamaha YPAO then setting feed to Kenwoods - 1 or - 2 dB and not needing to feed Kenwoods with extra power, it all works so well, I was amazed, I can play the system at +5 above reference and no over heating issues, I set yamaha volume not to go above +5 dB, because I have used it above that, at around +8 dB the Yamaha didn't like it and why I set it to cut volume off +5 dB.
I've learnt with the Yamaha RX-A3070 and it's YPAO now, owning it for just over a year now, is YPAO will only get you so close, but if you open Parametric EQ, then MANUAL, you can then copy YPAO:Natural settings (this suits my room best) into manual set up and then fine tune the sound from there, also the independent subwoofers and use your manual settings after this, YPAO delays are left alone, my sound now is absolutely awesome, I hope to get many more years out of it all.
I've only been into home theater for a little over a year and already really wish I had been into Audioholics sooner. Started with the Yamaha RX-A1080 for 1 year and already upgraded to the RX-A3080. Now I feel like I'm semi-future proofed.
I have a Yamaha RX-V665 A/V receiver, which is nowhere up to date as some of the new receivers, but I'm very satisfied with it. It is a 7.2 receiver. I have it setup as a 7.1 system with Klipsch Synergy speakers, F3s as my main front speakers. My sub is a Klipsch SW-450. Not sure that I need a second sub. My room is only 12 ft. width by 21 ft. length and 7.5 ft. height. I purchased the complete system in 2011 and it stills sounds good to me. I also my a Music Hall USB-1 turntable with a Shure M97xE cartridge, a Pioneer RT-1020L reel to reel tape deck, and a Tascam CD-RW700 Recorder connected to my system as well as my 55 inch TV and PC computer.
I have a Denon x4500h and I do believe it has both independent sub control and it does have unbalanced pre outs. I am very pleased with the performance in both movie and music Fidelity. Thoughts and prayers for you and your family during this time Gene, thank you for all you do.
i have a denon avr -x4700h i am useing the preout puts my question is iam useing the preout put on my setup is on the receiver i have on preout can i use this setting for a 7.1
Watching your videos inspired me to upgrade my surround system, beginning in December. So after months of research I went from Onkyo 5.1 to Denon X3500H 7.1 -- wanted to retain some legacy options, and it has independnet subwoofer outs. Added second subwoofer identical to first.
Have no experiece with other EQ systems, but I like Audyssey for what it can do -- especially in the X3500H, which allows different crossovers for different sets of speakers, whereas in the Onkyo only one was allowed
I am currently adjusting my setup to make some improvements. Integra DRX7 RUNNING 7.2.4.
Playing with my subwoofer setup, since I like my 2 channel audio and I am blessed with a wife that lets me have multiple audio setups.
I had a subwoofer fail and I replaced it with an SVS PB4000. I also have Martin Logan Dynamo 800x running on the second channel, I think I may switch out for another PB4000 and move the 800x to another room with a pair of Motion 15i I have such a great speaker.
That's it in a nutshell.
I took your advice in an earlier video you did. I went out and bought the Denon AVR-X3600H and do not regret it. I can confirm that it has both features you cover here and I love it. I now have 2 independent sub-woofers which the amp controls and the bass output when required is excellent. Many thanks for your advice and reviews.
I have a Onkyo TX NR1030 currently which replaced my old TX NR747 with the HDMI issue. Its fixed and sitting in the box it came back from repair in. Only complaint is that they said it would be DTS X upgradable but alas they say it is not able to be upgraded to the format, something to do with the software is the "company line." Very pleased with the sound, and running a full blown system with Def Tec's (8060"s with Atmos elevation speakers atop)(apartment so inceling is a no go), DT SR9080's and Pioneer Elite SP-EBS73-LR handling the rear and the atmos as well. My sub is a very old but steady Velodyne FSR-15 and still love it to this date. I have no idea what to replace it with should I ever need a new one.. to many choices.. and some astounding price points for them.. Great channel and I prayed for you guys yesterday when I watched your message about help. I'm disabled so money is tight so that is all I can do unfortunately. God Bless
Still using my Integra DTR 50.3 I bought 10 years ago. It's the heartbeat of my system.
I missed out on independent sub outs, by the time I realized it was too late🤦♂️. Mimi dsp to the rescue! Thanks Gene. Keep the quality info coming!
Your better off with the MiniDsp far better
Denon 4300H and I love it, have 5 channels running to the Outlaw 5000 amp
Harmon/Karden AVR-245 starter system with Infinity IL50’s + center channel. I just bought a REL HT1205 & it’s awesome! I am in the process of upgrading the receiver, speakers, maybe get a 5 channel amp down the line. I’m interested in the Marantz SR6014 & SVS Prime Pinnacle speakers, but things can change as technology does.
I have these features in my Denon 3700 and am using both. My dual SVS subs and using my old receiver pre out to run my mains for my 7.2.4 Atmos setup. Thanks for your great advice!
I just have an old Onkyo HT R530. I'm definitely going to make sure to get a new one that has preamp outputs. I was thinking on getting a dedicated pre amp and amp for the whole system but that's a lot of money to drop at one time.
Good to see you back 'on the air' with home theater content and doing better with your health!
100% right .2 preamp outs --2 subs out and 2 HDMI OUTS to . So many receivers do not have these 3 main features ..Listen to Gene ,little more bucks gets you a lot more in the long run.
GENE , Glad to see you again Brother. DENON X8500h , MARANTZ SR8012 or YAMAHA AVENTAGE RX-A3080 . I going to get one of those for my future home theater remodel . Which of those is ideal ( PRICE , performance, features) is for a 7.2.4 ATMOS? The satellite speakers 🔊 (left and right) KLIPSCH RF-7 iii , Center RC-64 iii, ( 2 ) RP-500M for side surrounds ,( 2 ) RP-500m for Back surrounds . ( 4 ) in Ceiling ATMOS SPEAKERS 🔊 CDT-3650-C-II.( 2 ) SVS PB-3000( or other one equivalent) .GOD bless you and Hope you get back to Normal soon 🙋🏻♂️🔊. We will keep listening 👂 🔊🔊🎼!
You're looking good Gene. Hang in there.
My main receiver for over 9 years has been the Yamaha RXV 667. It does have two sub outputs, but it's essentially the same output x2. However, I am in a position to do four subs since I have two Sony SA-WM500 subs (where you can daisy-chain). It also has 7-channel pre-out as well; It's handy since I just got my inaugural pair of Polk RTIa3 speakers (in zone 2 for now). Let me know if you'd like to talk about it more.
Four subs? Sounds like a good way to take down the drywall from your walls and ceiling.
I don't change receivers til there is a MAJOR new feature like 4K or Lossless sound processing. Other than that those other BS features do not entice me. I have the Denon X3400H as my processor, Parasound 5 channel amp and no need to do anything for a long, long time.Great video Gene, hope your feeling good and the family is safe.
I'm still using my Carver HR895. Was very impressive when I bought it in '95 since it was selling then for $1500, and continues to serve me well. After adding children to the home, my media room is only about 9 feet deep, so the 5.1 is acceptable. Still enjoy its sound quality even though I know there are more technologically advanced units available.
Minds seem to say that Audyssey doesn't individually correct enough for two or more subs, so just split the signal and let it average the response. Does this recommendation still hold true if a receiver has dual independent sub outs?
I bought my receiver about 5 years ago. It's an Onkyo TX SR 333. it's actually one of the low end models but has followed me through 3 house moves. Currently running a 3.1 setup and it does the job decently enough. It doesn't have many features but has been reliable since the day I bought it. Would probably go with an Onkyo again, maybe Yamaha or Denon too
Currently have an old Onkyo 7.2 receiver with DTS Master/Dolby True HD but only running setup as 5.0 cause I haven't invested in subs, just full range L/R, so I felt it when you pointed your finger at me 😄
Looking at your videos to consider the 2020 Denon 3700H with plans to get upgraded to 7.2.4... eventually.
Hey Gene, I bought the Marantz SR6014 late 2019 and have been super happy with it. I have owned Marantz AVRs for about 13 years now and have loved the sound. Yes it has does have dual sub out and 11 pre-amp outputs. 😄
Hey Gene, I too have this AVR, that Drew Has, BUT... my pre-amp outputs, don't look the same as the ones you highlighted in this video. So what am I missing with the ones that I have in the SR6014? I feel I bought way above my needs until I saw this list of must haves!
Still use a onkyo txsr 876 as my preamp. Bought it new like 10 years ago. I still rock a 60 inch kuro 1080p plasma too. I do wish I had dual separate outputs. I run 4 subs but they are all similar in performance and distance from the main seating area.
I had an onkyo tx-nr474 reveiver, and now have a marantz pm5005 integrated amp.
Very good video, it is a smart move to invest a little more in a receiver/amp with preamp outs for upgrading capabilites. Greetings from Uruguay.
Hey Gene. Glad you're feeling better.
I recently got a Marantz NR1609. It has two sub outs and pre amps for the fronts. I am planning on adding a power amp and sub soon... Eventually, a second sub.
Good advice, I owned a Yamaha RXA-3080 and used the mini DSP to control 3 sub-woofers.
I just upgraded to the Marantz SR 5013. Also replaced my front R&L speakers with Def Tec D-11's. I am having a tough time getting it all setup. I had an Onkyo HT-R693 AVR and it was actually a great receiver but it did not have preouts or DTS , DTSX & DTSX virtual. I am going to add the Crown XLS1502 soon I hope. That is if everything goes my way. I could use some advice on some crucial settings that you believe I should apply to my AVR. Thanks Gene and I really enjoy your videos. Have a great day and hope to hear something from you if you have time.
Hope your feeling better. Great info, thankyou for your Advice and info sir.
I have the Marantz 7.2 SR5013 and have had it for about a year. I am running a 5.2.2 Atmos setup. I have been pretty happy with it but the subs do not work independently... Didn't research enough before pulling the trigger apparently. I was able to balance them pretty well with the gain, but can't change the delay independently. But over all it has been a great receiver!
I just bought a Yamaha TSR-7810 referb exactly because it has pre-outs for all channels. I love it so far!. It was a great deal for $300 (List is $850 2017)
Have a Denon AVR-6400H and I have been using the internal amp but I just ordered a emotive 11-channel amp to power the 7.2.4 set up I have. Gonna bi-wire the front and center speakers too when I get the amp but I guess that's probably not really going to do anything. Excited how the amp changes the sound. speakers are all SVS ultra with surrounds in duet mode and 4 prime elevations for height and dual cylinder PB-2000 SVS subs. Will update next week when the amp should be set up.
Denon X1400H, yes I want the dual sub outputs but currently I can't see myself needing the pre-outs. I've thought about upgrading by honestly I think I'm better of just getting the miniDSP and sticking with it until it's too outdated to use.
I’m happy with my Denon AVR x3200w picked it up on Craigslist for 300 dollars last year. I have a Polk audio RTI 12 for Towers, CSI10 for the center, and monitor 40’s for surrounds, and 2 polk Psw505’s for 5.2.
Being delivered today! Got a great deal on a Marantz 8012. Hope one day to add that second sub. You look better Gene. Hope you are on the road to recovery.
nice info sir ...
I hav Denon x2400H, has 2 sub outs. so i hav connected 2 subs separately but still I am getting only one subwoofer option on the setup screen. can u pls help me out?
thanks in advance
Hello Gene I am using a pioneer sc lx76 9.2 channel avr !!! It’s a very good avr with air studios and thx certifications. I bought it in 2013 though th model is from 2012 . It has preouts for 11 channels and 2 subwoofer outs unfortunately they aren’t independent. Over all I am very happy with it . It has 4K pass through. And 140W at 8 Ω in two channel mode.The only thing I miss is Dolby atmos Dtsx and auro 3D.
I'm using an ancient (by A/V standars) Pioneer VSX-LX53. Pre outs was a must have, it also have a button on the front panel that turns of the speakers output of the recivers itself. I'm using it with a Parasound 5125 power amp. It only has a single sub output and it doesnt do any EQ of the sub, only disstance. But I'm using a miniDSP to eq the sub, if I suggested adding another sub my SO would kill me. Great video!
Yamaha rx-a2080. Had it for about 2 years. Getting ready to add an external amplifier for the 5 main channels.
Looking forward to seeing how DSP works on single sub output stages, my Arcam is an older unit that fronts my small A/V system I bought the receiver when my bigger and older arcam quit on me. I also separated my two channel listening when that occurred. At 52 years young I’m not developing a taste for a bigger AVR to front my projector the 2 channel has stole my heart. Audiophile since the eighties gene.
Gene, great info. But I would add another option for connecting dual subwoofers and that's through the front channel pre-outs especially if you have subs with a built in dsp like SVS Ultras, Revel etc. By connecting this way you bypass the avr's crossover all together instead of defeating the subs and I think that's the way the sub manufacturers designed it to work of not better. I have a Yamaha A3060. It has a few good options for multiple subs e.g. mono, stereo and front & rear but I have had the best results with the option I mentioned. Ny the way if you already have a separate power amp you can use a Y splitter (male to 2 female) and continue the run from each left and right output from the preyour of your AVR. Also I'd like to mention I got that suggestion from Paul at P.S.A. 👍🏽
I still use an old school receiver Denon AVR 3803. When I bought it I had made sure of two things. Analogue inputs and outputs 7.1 in case I wish to upgrade. Bought it in 2004!? Now use it with an Oppp 103D where the decoding gets done. I am pretty happy as no issues and O still get codecs upto DTs-Hd-ma
I still use the 3801 and it sounds considebly better than the stuff I hear today in the $1,000 - $2,000 price point! I mean how much power do people need?🤔🙄🤯
@@bigjay1970 3 years ago I bought a great condition Denon 4802r w/remote. (2004 year 2000$rec retail :)for 250$ being obsolete. It's a tank and powerhouse....large torroidal power transformer + caps. Then I bought excellent condition Definitive technology speakers (7) Bp10 towers, clr 2002 center, 4 promonitor 1000 surrounds for 950....add cables + interconnects. I only spent 1200$ for entire kick ass system. I'm still enjoying .... I don't care to upgrade at all. Sounds seriously amazing to anyone I've shown. Yeah I only get 7 ch DTS@1.5mbps + dolby digital@640kbps via optical digital...who cares about having all tech bells and whistles. I use HDMI for all video needs to get 4k, and I use the Denon receiver strictly for audio via optical digital. I have a nice large 4k HDR Sony led TV + 4k Blu ray player+ 5 game console hooked up to TV to get best picture quality too
Hey Steve: About 5 years ago I was in the market for a good ( meaning in by budget range ) AV Processor . I looked at brands like Madrigal ( way ove my budget and specially on some Anthem model that was a la par with the Denon. One of the main reasons I chose the Denon taking aside , sound, quality build and others, was the fact that it had not one but three Sub out puts that really sold me out ! Output 1 and 2 were asignable like A & B or left and right and #3 was LFE asignable. The possibilities were endless. Just because of these Sub options I got the Denon. And it has worked in my HT set up flawlessly ever since . There are a couple of things that I still would like to set up like the Odyssey and others. It is quite complex and I know that I just have scratched the surface.
Running the Pioneer SC-LX901 AVR, Outlaw 7000x running my lower 7 channels powering my Klipsch Reference Premier speakers, Outlaw 5000x powering my 4 SVS Prime Elevation Atmos speakers. 2 SVS PB-3000 powered subs and with the Pioneer, I have the option of turning my internal amplifiers completely off, turning my AVR into a pre/pro, basically. Works great, looks great, sounds great!!
I use a denon avr x4400h receiver and use a power amp for my surround tower canton speakers. I still use one paradigm 10 inch subwoofer but audessey manages to get the most out of it and i have a lot of base at my sitting position.
I'm still kicking around with DENON AVR-X7200WA model and yes it has dual sub outs and I do use that mini DSP device it's very useful. One thing it doesn't have XLR balanced outputs or inputs.
I have the Yamaha RX-V679. I have had this for 6 years. The last year I have gone down the rabbit hole of sound quality, and now I would like to have the pre outs to upgrade f,c,r speakers. Wish I would have bought the RX-V779 as it had the preouts. Otherwise this receiver has everything I need. 4k, dolby vision pass-through, bluetooth, the phone app, and dtshd. Those were the big ones I wanted and still use.
I'm using a 10 year old computer (first generation intel i7 baby!) with a 24" IPS panel monitor, with a 10 year old soundcard (Xonar Essence STX), hooked up to a 20 year old Harmon Kardon AV receiver, hooked up to a couple B&W bookshelf speakers... and it sounds lovely! The bookshelf speakers sound lovely, and my headphones too (Sennheiser PC360 headphones). I don't have a TV, I use my computer monitor for TV & movies.
I took your advice (from a few years back) and picked up a Denon X3300W for less than 500 bucks when the X3400W just came out (50% off, brand new). This is probably the least money you can spend that gets you both of your must-haves (2 independent sub outputs and multi-channel pre-outs). I'm running 2 SVS subs, and powering front, center and surround channels by a used Emotiva amps that I picked up on Craigslist for cheap (don't remember what model but it's very heavy, about 70lbs I think). The receiver's internal amp takes care of the ceiling Atmos channel. The setup works great.
While I agree with the two features you mentioned, I've replaced the last 2AVR's because they didn't have the most recent version of HDMI connection. Receivers with the full complement of HDMI 2.1 will be out within 6 to 12 months and will provide many more years of service than the units being sold today. It will have modest improvement with today's equipment and be able to pass signals from tomorrows sources to tomorrows TV's. Being somewhat future proof on the HDMI front makes me feel better about spending more on a unit with the additional connections discussed here.
Very true 👍
Got my Denon 4500h for Christmas. It has everything I need .. and more -> Atmos, DTS:X/IMAX enhanced, Auro, support of 5.2.4, dual sub out, a lot of streaming services, ... 😉✌️
Just upgraded to a Marantz SR6013 a few months ago. Thankfully it has both of the features you just said I needed.
James H love my 6013
THANK YOU! I thought i was the only one! I have an old Yamaha and that I just couldn't part with because it has the pre-out on all channels. Newer AV receivers went away with the pre-outs which is so disappointing.
Can you teach us about getting an integrated amp? Things we can buy used, vs new. What are the best ones to get - with dac or without etc. Let's say you only had £1000. How would you use it? In my case, I need AV bypass. I have kef r500 that are 25-105rms 88db dipping to 3.2ohms
We could really use a video on this topic!
Great advice!, I try to tell people to think before their purchase also. it sucks to see a friend get a 5.1 receiver and they planned on setting up a 7.2 with possible addition of height channels.
Yamaha RX-A3050 for the processing of 7.1.4. Onkyo TX-SR876 in bridged mode to power the fronts. Paradigm Studio v.3 series for the 7.1 (100s, CC570, ADP (can't remember the model number) for sides, and 20s for the back), and four Paradigm Cinemas mounted on the ceiling for Atmos.
I’m still using an Onkyo NR929 and still love it
currently running a Pioneer SC-27 from 2009, looking to upgrade to Emotiva RMC-1l, can't wait for my new gear.
good Video Gene. Thanks
I snagged the Denon x3700h I'm good on everything you just talked about. I'm getting ready to add the Outlaw 5000x to the mix for lower channels then use Denon to power the 4 Atmos speakers. That's the plan sir.....
Onkyo txrz 820. Got it for every reason you said. Sub-outs aren't independent, but you can at least run 2 subs (I do). Pre-outs for every channel. Really happy with it.
Thinking about an upgrade. Currently running a Marantz 6012. Thoughts on the Denon 3600H? Any other suggestions are welcome! Thanks for the channel and glad to see you're feeling better!
John Sharpenberg no point those to receiver are almost equal.