I don't know if you've ever flown an actual plane before, but the 3 (two Piper warriors and an Arrow) that I've flown didn't have a delay in the responsiveness of the flight controls. That's one of things I noticed when I did my discovery flight. When I took off, the plane jumped off the runway. When I banked left or right I had to be careful not to introduce to much input to quickly. Retarding the response of the flight controls would feel opposite to the real thing. At least in the Pipers I flew.
GA planes are incredibly reactive to control inputs... they do feel like a fighter jet if you give them big inputs... however, you would normally not be aggressive with the controls when you're flying... a lot of things to worry about when doing that... breaking a cable, load factor, exceeding aircraft g's limits, even traffic considerations since you don't know if someone could be nearby and your erratic flight path might cause a collision.
Just discovered your channel and subscribed. So you've come close to a subject I haven't seen anyone talk about and that is the fact that if you adjust your rudder pedals to feel appropriate for the taxi, then they're far too responsive in the air. I really wish nose wheel and rudder could be two separate things but I imagine that would be complicated from a software standpoint. Maybe some day.
Hey thanks man, I appreciate that! You're absolutely right, and at one point in time I wasn't sure if it was just that my rudder pedals were especially bad (they are) but the rudder control in the SIM does just feel wonky no matter what. To be honest rudder input feels even more janky in Xplane imo. I'm starting to wonder if anyone has the rudder pedal feel right in any SIM out there now. I have to think though that it wouldn’t be enormously difficult for Asobo to have a different model for rudder controls on the ground vs in the air. We can only hope
Well, the Bonanza feeling like a fighter is pretty accurate really. It was fast and light on the controls, and was built with the post WWII pilots in mind. It was so successful that Beechcraft turned it into the T-34A/B with no change to the wings or tail. Only the fuselage was modified, and the V tail version of the Bonanza killed a lot of people because of it's inability to fly well at slow speeds due to the lack of a vertical stabilizer. So, to use it as a base, is not a great idea because the thing really is a hotrod and at the speeds you're flying, if you did a max yoke deflection, you'd be upside down in no time flat.
I’ve been looking for this. I think one thing XPlane succeeded in is implementing a weighty feeling towards the aircraft, making it more realistic. I knew it was somewhere in MSFS, just couldn’t spot the setting, thank you!!
The flight model in XPlane is just stellar but I think we’re getting closer in the MSFS world, especially with third party aircraft. Here’s hoping they improve in MSFS2024!
Very good point and it does indeed make a difference. The annoying thing is that in order to get every plane reasonably OK you end up having a controller profile for EACH plane...
Some of the planes are “too” weighty, while others feel like flying a paper airplane, and I think it’s due to size. I fly the diamond DA62 because I love the plane, and it feels like I am flying a slightly aerodynamic rock, whereas the Airbus A320 feels like a lightweight rod floating in the air.
Funnily enough, many A320 pilots have remarked that "a lightweight rod floating in air" is actually highly accurate to how the real-world aircraft performs and handles.
Great video, gonna apply these settings to my velocity one and my pedals, and see how I get on. I do fly only my payware addons mainly, so may not have to go so aggressive.
As for now, Im using an Xbox controller which I acutally have got pro on using. =P Ive set good curves etc - BUT i still have problems with the rudder....it just reacts too quick wich also affecdts stering on ground (in the case you are using the wheel for steering). Not sure what to do, but Im tired of rediculos looking takeoffs. Swiring from left to right... =/ Any good rudder settings for a controller. Of course...a real yoke or similar is what to prefer, but i really like the simplicity in the controller. =) Thank you
Absolutely, 99% of aircraft in MSFS. both default and 3rd party, don't have that feeling of inertia to them. In fact, there are probably only a few that do manage to capture it. The Comanche for sure, the Da42 and I'd say the Fenix A320 after the recent major update. But the Bonanza somewhat feel like a fighter because it was made for all the ww2 veteran pilots. That's why it's such a loved airplane till this day.
The Comanche is top notch, still waiting to get my hands on the DA42 when I have some time to truly put into it. The Bonanza has some really interesting history behind it, never knew that angle though. Thanks for info!
Thing is, the Airbus A320 doesn't really have that sluggish and heavy "inertia" that many simulator pilots tend to expect. Real-world pilots have commented that the actual A320 is highly reactive to control inputs. Even the gargantuan A380 doesn't feel like you're manoeuvring anything at all according to actual pilots (which Flybywire have actually implemented into their upcoming A380).
I noticed that you have set a 2 % dead zone on the left and right brake axis. This should be set to zero in order to have linear brake application from zero to full pedal. 2 % is hardly noticeable, just wanted to mention this anyway😉
I use some drastic values and curves for months, trying to enhance crappy MSFS feel, no bueno. I ended use Reactivity at 0% for both PMDG and Fenix, with Extremity Dead Zone around 30-40% to make both airliners feel heavy, to add that weight and inertia feel that is completely lacking in the sim, and still can't feel any. It still feels like flying paper planes, just with a slight delay, and with a slower roll due to extremity dead zones. Then I hop into X-Plane 11 or 12, and the smile on my face is momentarily back, weight and inertia are there with a direct control feel built into it, just like IRL. MSFS feels so artificial, so fake, it's beyond me how Asobo ended screwing the most important aspect of any flight sim. I mean the feel of flying is above physics if you ask me, simply because if it's not right, physics won't help. I mean even Aerofly FS 4 feel way better than MSFS, both weight and inertia are there, and direct control.
I can definitely see how one would arrive at that conclusion with MSFS, I find it more tolerable in some planes than others but that's a totally valid viewpoint. Can't speak for Aerofly FS but Aerofly RC 10 is one of my guilty pleasures and I'm convinced it might have one of the best flight models ever (if only for RC aircraft)
@GhostPlaneRadio Yes, I admit that couple of addons feel better than the rest in MSFS, such as A2A Comanche and COWS DA-42. But don't get me wrong, still not close to the XP11/12 feel that is present in almost every aircraft.
Not the best advice. Planes are generally designed to take into account the default sensitivity, so messing with sensitivity settings just adds unknown noise to the setup. regarding the rudder, with such low reactivity, you completely lose the lateral control authority once high-speed rolling, where very fine inputs are required.
Reactivity is basically putting expo in the control. This is not how GA fly. They are extremely reactive, even down to a Cessna 172 IRL MSFS is very accurate. X plane dumbs down the control rates making GA aircraft feel floaty. But it's a personal preference so overall you can fly how you enjoy it, how you think a plane would feel. You'll be in for a surprise if you ever take the yoke of a real aircraft though.
I have the opposite problem when flying an aerobatic plane. Control surface response is so slow and delayed you cant actually fly the plane as it was intended to be flown.
Im not sure if its my peripherals or something but ive never undestood the whole "msfs planes feel weightless" in xplane i can move my stick as fast as id like and the plane responds instantly like there is no feedback but in msfs ive never had an issue with that, i can move my stick left to right and it takes a second like there is force being put on the aileron counteracting my input
You know it could just be my perception of things too, maybe hearing that sentiment regarding the feel of XPlane and MSFS being repeated at times in the community colored my perception of things too. I know I’m not the first one to point to the reactivity settings but it’s so dependent on hardware on personal preference too. Which reminds me I really need to go back and put some more time in on XPlane and test this a little more.
@@GhostPlaneRadio It also very well could be that i set my controls similar to how you had yours almost as soon as the sim came out, used to setting curves because of dcs and automatically seeing the reactivity slider and testing it and setting it to how i like.
I use a game pad and by default i can destroy many planes by pulling a cobra maneuver, which i'm fairly sure you shouldn't be able to do, so lowering the sensitivity drastically was one of the first things i did in the sim and it made the whole thing better but i've never touched the reactivity slider because i didn't know what it did, thanks for the tip.
Yeah same, the default weight and feel of the Bonanza in this game is almost comical to me. Deadzone helped me out a lot too, some combination of that and reactivity felt about right to me in the end.
You are confusing different subjects. Most GA aircraft aren't Fly by Wire. When you move the control the control surface moves the exact same amount the control moves every time. Minus any cable flex of course. What you're talking about is mass of the aircraft and the associated forces that you feel through the control not the control movements themselves. The controls move the same amount the environment around the surface changes dynamically.
Hi! Very good explanation over here, honestly I never tried this option. Can you recommend this to use with Honeycomb Alpha and A2A Comanche? I don't have any experience with GA airplanes or Comanches so can't be sure will it make it better. For my taste the shaft movement is a bit short on Alpha tho
Thanks! Honestly the Comanche feels great at default settings, A2A really nailed it I think. I tried it at 60% but it didn’t seem to make a very noticeable difference, maybe a bit stiffer but not sure if that’s necessarily an improvement. I do wish we had better options for yokes in the same price range as the Alpha something with longer throw would be a nice improvement for sure. And now the situation with Honeycomb (the company) is looking pretty shaky.
Well sensitivity is an option separate to reactivity here. You’re right sensitivity reduces the range of input, whereas reactivity introduces a slight delay on the input from what I can tell.
@@GhostPlaneRadio no, you misread, go back to first grade and then read before replying. reactivity in msfs is the same as what you would call sensititivity in all other games, while msfs sensitivity is actually a response curve. sensitivity, that is, msfs reactivity, is a simple multiplier that reduces the maximum input that is possible, the response curve makes small inputs smaller while keeping the big ones big.
One thing that is hard to replicate (affordably) is the force required to move the control. I am lucky to have a Brunner force feedback yoke and it makes a HUGE improvement in the way any flight simulator feels.
@@MikeAlphaZulu I rationalized the price like this: it costs approximately the same as 20 hours in a Cessna 172 with an instructor. But the Brunner gives you hundreds of hours of value. Mine is 4 years old and still going strong.
And here I am furiously monitoring eBay for an old Microsoft Sidewinder FFB Pro. I would absolutely kill for something like the Brunner, that looks like such a huge improvement!
Straight to the point with zero bullshit. Beautiful
I don't know if you've ever flown an actual plane before, but the 3 (two Piper warriors and an Arrow) that I've flown didn't have a delay in the responsiveness of the flight controls. That's one of things I noticed when I did my discovery flight. When I took off, the plane jumped off the runway. When I banked left or right I had to be careful not to introduce to much input to quickly. Retarding the response of the flight controls would feel opposite to the real thing. At least in the Pipers I flew.
Just what I needed. Was already wondering why my landings ware zo bumpy. They are much smoother now.
Thank you.
GA planes are incredibly reactive to control inputs... they do feel like a fighter jet if you give them big inputs... however, you would normally not be aggressive with the controls when you're flying... a lot of things to worry about when doing that... breaking a cable, load factor, exceeding aircraft g's limits, even traffic considerations since you don't know if someone could be nearby and your erratic flight path might cause a collision.
Just discovered your channel and subscribed.
So you've come close to a subject I haven't seen anyone talk about and that is the fact that if you adjust your rudder pedals to feel appropriate for the taxi, then they're far too responsive in the air.
I really wish nose wheel and rudder could be two separate things but I imagine that would be complicated from a software standpoint. Maybe some day.
Hey thanks man, I appreciate that! You're absolutely right, and at one point in time I wasn't sure if it was just that my rudder pedals were especially bad (they are) but the rudder control in the SIM does just feel wonky no matter what. To be honest rudder input feels even more janky in Xplane imo. I'm starting to wonder if anyone has the rudder pedal feel right in any SIM out there now.
I have to think though that it wouldn’t be enormously difficult for Asobo to have a different model for rudder controls on the ground vs in the air. We can only hope
Thanks so much again for the video. It made a big difference. I can actually go down the runway and stay on centerline for takeoff after 4 years
Cool man, I’m really glad this helped you! Rudder control has been one of the most troubling things for me in this game too.
Well, the Bonanza feeling like a fighter is pretty accurate really. It was fast and light on the controls, and was built with the post WWII pilots in mind. It was so successful that Beechcraft turned it into the T-34A/B with no change to the wings or tail. Only the fuselage was modified, and the V tail version of the Bonanza killed a lot of people because of it's inability to fly well at slow speeds due to the lack of a vertical stabilizer. So, to use it as a base, is not a great idea because the thing really is a hotrod and at the speeds you're flying, if you did a max yoke deflection, you'd be upside down in no time flat.
Good advice. Have always noticed MSFS feels fake, game, whatever. While x plane seems so natural, real. Will look into this.
I’ve been looking for this. I think one thing XPlane succeeded in is implementing a weighty feeling towards the aircraft, making it more realistic.
I knew it was somewhere in MSFS, just couldn’t spot the setting, thank you!!
The flight model in XPlane is just stellar but I think we’re getting closer in the MSFS world, especially with third party aircraft. Here’s hoping they improve in MSFS2024!
Agree with the rudder, dead zone and reactivity, noted
Good points...I toned min down awhile back....big difference...feels like the ral deal...especially the rudder!
Very good point and it does indeed make a difference. The annoying thing is that in order to get every plane reasonably OK you end up having a controller profile for EACH plane...
Yeah and thats a pretty valid complaint. The consistency leaves much to be desired.
Thanks for the video. I will definitely give this a try, especially with the rudder pedals. I always wondered what the reactivity setting did
You’re welcome, hope it helps!
Some of the planes are “too” weighty, while others feel like flying a paper airplane, and I think it’s due to size. I fly the diamond DA62 because I love the plane, and it feels like I am flying a slightly aerodynamic rock, whereas the Airbus A320 feels like a lightweight rod floating in the air.
That is about the best description I’ve seen regarding the flight model of the DA62!
I bet you're flying the da62 mod ?
Funnily enough, many A320 pilots have remarked that "a lightweight rod floating in air" is actually highly accurate to how the real-world aircraft performs and handles.
Great video, gonna apply these settings to my velocity one and my pedals, and see how I get on. I do fly only my payware addons mainly, so may not have to go so aggressive.
Thanks! Yeah I find most of the better payware addons feel pretty dialed in with default settings but it’s probably worth a try.
Great information thanks. That will help on the runway during takeoff when my Cessna careens around like a scaled cat if I touch the rudder pedals!
As for now, Im using an Xbox controller which I acutally have got pro on using. =P Ive set good curves etc - BUT i still have problems with the rudder....it just reacts too quick wich also affecdts stering on ground (in the case you are using the wheel for steering). Not sure what to do, but Im tired of rediculos looking takeoffs. Swiring from left to right... =/ Any good rudder settings for a controller. Of course...a real yoke or similar is what to prefer, but i really like the simplicity in the controller. =) Thank you
Absolutely, 99% of aircraft in MSFS. both default and 3rd party, don't have that feeling of inertia to them. In fact, there are probably only a few that do manage to capture it. The Comanche for sure, the Da42 and I'd say the Fenix A320 after the recent major update. But the Bonanza somewhat feel like a fighter because it was made for all the ww2 veteran pilots. That's why it's such a loved airplane till this day.
The Comanche is top notch, still waiting to get my hands on the DA42 when I have some time to truly put into it. The Bonanza has some really interesting history behind it, never knew that angle though. Thanks for info!
Thing is, the Airbus A320 doesn't really have that sluggish and heavy "inertia" that many simulator pilots tend to expect. Real-world pilots have commented that the actual A320 is highly reactive to control inputs. Even the gargantuan A380 doesn't feel like you're manoeuvring anything at all according to actual pilots (which Flybywire have actually implemented into their upcoming A380).
Absolutely brilliant! Thanks for this
Interesting... Going to try this. My curves are a lot like yours but I hadn't played with reactivity. Thank you!
I noticed that you have set a 2 % dead zone on the left and right brake axis. This should be set to zero in order to have linear brake application from zero to full pedal. 2 % is hardly noticeable, just wanted to mention this anyway😉
Ah how could I have missed that! I think I must've set that at some point by accident and never noticed somehow!
Thanks for the shout!
Most GA aircraft have differential ailerons the rudder is not needed for the turn coordination.
The old tail draggers were different.
I use some drastic values and curves for months, trying to enhance crappy MSFS feel, no bueno. I ended use Reactivity at 0% for both PMDG and Fenix, with Extremity Dead Zone around 30-40% to make both airliners feel heavy, to add that weight and inertia feel that is completely lacking in the sim, and still can't feel any. It still feels like flying paper planes, just with a slight delay, and with a slower roll due to extremity dead zones. Then I hop into X-Plane 11 or 12, and the smile on my face is momentarily back, weight and inertia are there with a direct control feel built into it, just like IRL. MSFS feels so artificial, so fake, it's beyond me how Asobo ended screwing the most important aspect of any flight sim. I mean the feel of flying is above physics if you ask me, simply because if it's not right, physics won't help. I mean even Aerofly FS 4 feel way better than MSFS, both weight and inertia are there, and direct control.
I can definitely see how one would arrive at that conclusion with MSFS, I find it more tolerable in some planes than others but that's a totally valid viewpoint. Can't speak for Aerofly FS but Aerofly RC 10 is one of my guilty pleasures and I'm convinced it might have one of the best flight models ever (if only for RC aircraft)
@GhostPlaneRadio Yes, I admit that couple of addons feel better than the rest in MSFS, such as A2A Comanche and COWS DA-42. But don't get me wrong, still not close to the XP11/12 feel that is present in almost every aircraft.
Not the best advice. Planes are generally designed to take into account the default sensitivity, so messing with sensitivity settings just adds unknown noise to the setup. regarding the rudder, with such low reactivity, you completely lose the lateral control authority once high-speed rolling, where very fine inputs are required.
That's all very true what you've said and I'm surprised no one else seems to be giving it a second thought.
Reactivity is basically putting expo in the control. This is not how GA fly. They are extremely reactive, even down to a Cessna 172 IRL MSFS is very accurate. X plane dumbs down the control rates making GA aircraft feel floaty. But it's a personal preference so overall you can fly how you enjoy it, how you think a plane would feel. You'll be in for a surprise if you ever take the yoke of a real aircraft though.
I have the opposite problem when flying an aerobatic plane. Control surface response is so slow and delayed you cant actually fly the plane as it was intended to be flown.
Im not sure if its my peripherals or something but ive never undestood the whole "msfs planes feel weightless" in xplane i can move my stick as fast as id like and the plane responds instantly like there is no feedback but in msfs ive never had an issue with that, i can move my stick left to right and it takes a second like there is force being put on the aileron counteracting my input
You know it could just be my perception of things too, maybe hearing that sentiment regarding the feel of XPlane and MSFS being repeated at times in the community colored my perception of things too.
I know I’m not the first one to point to the reactivity settings but it’s so dependent on hardware on personal preference too. Which reminds me I really need to go back and put some more time in on XPlane and test this a little more.
@@GhostPlaneRadio It also very well could be that i set my controls similar to how you had yours almost as soon as the sim came out, used to setting curves because of dcs and automatically seeing the reactivity slider and testing it and setting it to how i like.
100% spot on. Yes, MSFS planes lack somewhat of inertia. DCS has nailed it. This tweak helps a bit.
Great little tutorial. Thank you
Always wonder if people rating flight simulator handling characteristics have experience with how real handling characteristics.
I use a game pad and by default i can destroy many planes by pulling a cobra maneuver, which i'm fairly sure you shouldn't be able to do, so lowering the sensitivity drastically was one of the first things i did in the sim and it made the whole thing better but i've never touched the reactivity slider because i didn't know what it did, thanks for the tip.
Yeah same, the default weight and feel of the Bonanza in this game is almost comical to me. Deadzone helped me out a lot too, some combination of that and reactivity felt about right to me in the end.
Thank you
You are confusing different subjects. Most GA aircraft aren't Fly by Wire. When you move the control the control surface moves the exact same amount the control moves every time. Minus any cable flex of course. What you're talking about is mass of the aircraft and the associated forces that you feel through the control not the control movements themselves. The controls move the same amount the environment around the surface changes dynamically.
Can I also use this in Xbox controller?
Hi! Very good explanation over here, honestly I never tried this option. Can you recommend this to use with Honeycomb Alpha and A2A Comanche? I don't have any experience with GA airplanes or Comanches so can't be sure will it make it better. For my taste the shaft movement is a bit short on Alpha tho
Thanks! Honestly the Comanche feels great at default settings, A2A really nailed it I think. I tried it at 60% but it didn’t seem to make a very noticeable difference, maybe a bit stiffer but not sure if that’s necessarily an improvement.
I do wish we had better options for yokes in the same price range as the Alpha something with longer throw would be a nice improvement for sure. And now the situation with Honeycomb (the company) is looking pretty shaky.
reactivity I think is just what you would normally call sensitivity, lowering the sensitivity for a joystick makes you unable to make full deflection
Well sensitivity is an option separate to reactivity here. You’re right sensitivity reduces the range of input, whereas reactivity introduces a slight delay on the input from what I can tell.
@@GhostPlaneRadio no, you misread, go back to first grade and then read before replying. reactivity in msfs is the same as what you would call sensititivity in all other games, while msfs sensitivity is actually a response curve. sensitivity, that is, msfs reactivity, is a simple multiplier that reduces the maximum input that is possible, the response curve makes small inputs smaller while keeping the big ones big.
Many thanks - informative and interesting!
One thing that is hard to replicate (affordably) is the force required to move the control. I am lucky to have a Brunner force feedback yoke and it makes a HUGE improvement in the way any flight simulator feels.
This! The Market for valuable force Feedback Controllers for flight Sim seems to be too Low sadly. The Brunner one seems...pricy :)
@@MikeAlphaZulu I rationalized the price like this: it costs approximately the same as 20 hours in a Cessna 172 with an instructor. But the Brunner gives you hundreds of hours of value. Mine is 4 years old and still going strong.
And here I am furiously monitoring eBay for an old Microsoft Sidewinder FFB Pro. I would absolutely kill for something like the Brunner, that looks like such a huge improvement!
Great info! Worthy of a sub! Thx!!
Thanks for the sub!
Now go get yourself the A2A Comanche 250, and you'll never even THINK about the Asobo planes ever again. haha
Fantástico.
Thanks!
How about helicopters?
I’m afraid my experience with helicopters is embarrassingly shallow. I’ll have to spend some time and familiarize myself more.
Asobo planes are crap. most add-ons for pay are realistic, but the default ones are like they were in FSX, not really flyable.
Pathetic. Msfs fans are so desperate that they use sensitivity to "simulate flight model". Microsoft so lame.
But not as lame as your inane comment.